RE: phase I and II detox and GSE, etc

[Guest guest]

Hi Marc,

I was afraid that might be the case with GSE as I noticed I never have detox

symptoms from it killing candida, and with all the other germicidals I have bad

detox symptoms. The sites only mention grapefruit juice, but I suspected the

GSE was halting phase I too.

Ditto for the milk thistle also. I can't take the stuff due to it causing too

severe detox symptoms. I have been experimenting with riboflavin and am having

problems with it, as well. I thought maybe I was lacking another nutrient that

has to be balanced with it and so did some research. I found molybdenum, iron,

other Bs, and some amino acids work with it. But I suspect ribo, etc, are

causing a liver detox imbalance due to speeding up phase I detox. Such a shame

as I have about a dozen symptoms of riboflavin deficiency. After taking even

small doses of riboflavin, tho, I have horrible detox symptoms and pretty much

drop whereever I am and fall asleep for 2 hours. After about 10 days of this I

had to halt the riboflavin altogether. What I really need is to overcome the

phase II dysfunction, but that is alot more complicated. I can take the

nutrients, etc, for phase II that I know about but that doesn't seem to work for

me. Any suggestions??? Does anybody know

if Dr Rae from EHCD (or anyone else) can treat phase II detox problems?

Thanks,

Diane

Marc <marc@...> wrote:

> I have dysfunctional phase II liver detox pathways and grapefruit in

any

> form makes me feel great! However, this is probably because it slows or stops

> entirely phase I detox and so I am not getting all the symptoms of phase II

> dysfunction

I should note that 7 years ago, grapefruit seed extract also made me feel

great, and that I also had liver tests which showed an overactive phase

I liver detox. Also I recently noted that anything containing Milk

Thistle makes me feel bad, and I believe that Milk Thistle boosts

phase I liver detox.

But it is good to have those phases balanced, so temporarily suppressing

one phase can have its merits!

I should note that I hardly take grapefruit seed extract anymore -- maybe

if I've got a cold or flu, but not on a daily basis.

Marc

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi Diane and Marc,

The relationship of phase I and phase II is a bit complicated - the clearest

explanation we've seen was in a book by Holford (don't know if that

would be available in the US though). Grapefruit and GSE are believed to

slow down phase I, and have caused problems for people taking some drugs

(e.g. SSRI's) because they aren't eliminated properly and " black fogs " can

result. On the other hand, as you rightly say, if phase I is going fast and

phase II is not, you get some nasty intermediates building up.

I believe that phase II liver detox problems are probably a big factor for

many people with MCS and ES (sorry if I sound like a stuck record on this).

I would have thought Dr Rae or a few of the better clued-up doctors in the

USA ought to be able to treat this, as the background seems to be reasonably

well known (and published). I think that Great Smokies would do suitable

tests to check the key liver chemicals to show whether any particular

pathways are not functioning - in fact Sue's samples might well have been

sent there (I know some of her tests were done transatlantic as there

weren't UK/European labs with a proven track record in them). In her case 2

of the 4 pathways weren't working and the 3rd (glutathione) had become

seriously depleted as a result, so it definitely pointed the way forward for

us. For Sue's particular problems, magnesium sulphate and glutathione have

improved things. Cysteine is the standard prescribed treatment to deal with

low sulphate, but that didn't work for Sue because it turned out her

cysteine-sulphate conversion doesn't work - this is the kind of key

information that the tests can reveal.

Ian

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Evie

Sent: 18 January 2008 07:30

Subject: Re: phase I and II detox and GSE, etc

Hi Marc,

I was afraid that might be the case with GSE as I noticed I never have detox

symptoms from it killing candida, and with all the other germicidals I have

bad detox symptoms. The sites only mention grapefruit juice, but I suspected

the GSE was halting phase I too.

Ditto for the milk thistle also. I can't take the stuff due to it causing

too severe detox symptoms. I have been experimenting with riboflavin and am

having problems with it, as well. I thought maybe I was lacking another

nutrient that has to be balanced with it and so did some research. I found

molybdenum, iron, other Bs, and some amino acids work with it. But I suspect

ribo, etc, are causing a liver detox imbalance due to speeding up phase I

detox. Such a shame as I have about a dozen symptoms of riboflavin

deficiency. After taking even small doses of riboflavin, tho, I have

horrible detox symptoms and pretty much drop whereever I am and fall asleep

for 2 hours. After about 10 days of this I had to halt the riboflavin

altogether. What I really need is to overcome the phase II dysfunction, but

that is alot more complicated. I can take the nutrients, etc, for phase II

that I know about but that doesn't seem to work for me. Any suggestions???

Does anybody know

if Dr Rae from EHCD (or anyone else) can treat phase II detox problems?

Thanks,

Diane

Marc <marcufoseries (DOT) <mailto:marc%40ufoseries.com> com> wrote:

> I have dysfunctional phase II liver detox pathways and grapefruit in any

> form makes me feel great! However, this is probably because it slows or

stops

> entirely phase I detox and so I am not getting all the symptoms of phase

II

> dysfunction

I should note that 7 years ago, grapefruit seed extract also made me feel

great, and that I also had liver tests which showed an overactive phase

I liver detox. Also I recently noted that anything containing Milk

Thistle makes me feel bad, and I believe that Milk Thistle boosts

phase I liver detox.

But it is good to have those phases balanced, so temporarily suppressing

one phase can have its merits!

I should note that I hardly take grapefruit seed extract anymore -- maybe

if I've got a cold or flu, but not on a daily basis.

Marc

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

> magnesium sulphate and glutathione have improved things.

Magnesium Sulphate? As in " Epsom Salt " ? Taken orally

or in a bath?

(I remember drinking this stuff when I was trying

gallbladder flushes -- yuck!)

Marc

[Guest guest]

Yes, Epsom salts! At different times Sue has had it by IV infusions (all

she could tolerate at first), orally, baths or (most recently) injections.

IV is expensive, orally doesn't work well if your gut is bad, baths can give

overdose detox symptoms, and injections are painful! Take your pick...

Ian

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Marc

Sent: 18 January 2008 23:05

Subject: RE: phase I and II detox and GSE, etc

> magnesium sulphate and glutathione have improved things.

Magnesium Sulphate? As in " Epsom Salt " ? Taken orally

or in a bath?

(I remember drinking this stuff when I was trying

gallbladder flushes -- yuck!)

Marc