Re: Something interesting

[Guest guest]

Interesting how they are getting around to finding out things others

have known for a long long time! >

> Don Wells

Don, please qualify your statement. I am very anxious to hear your

answer.

Thanks!

Vache

[Guest guest]

Hi Vache,

Don, please qualify your statement. I am very anxious to hear your

answer.

Thanks!

Vache

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have known from an early age and I am in my early fifties now that wormwood was effective against many forms of bloodborne parasites. I have seen it used in China for exactly this purpose. It can be bought in any herbshop from Hong Kong to Myanmar! Hulda has touted it for this very purpose for years and many many before her. Now they "discover" after all the hoopla that indeed it does work like people have been saying for centuries! Is that enough of a statement?:-)

Don

The two most abundant elements in the universe are Carbon and ignorance.

[Guest guest]

Well, actually no it is not enough of a statement for me personally.

As one that has spent extensive time living in the Third World, your

mention of this is the first time I have ever heard of it. I simply

find it hard to believe something " so well known " would be so unknown

of in the Third World.

Vache

(a malaria victum)

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Always interested in what FDA is doing! And this is about national

security as well! Thank you for your input.

May I ask a favor of you. Can you please find the exact link from the

home page and place it in a post? The reason is " right now " this

topic is in FDA headlines if it is on front page. But a week or a

month or so down the road it will go into the archives. If a study

group member reads our (your) post weeks from now, they will go to

FDA and have a hard time finding it. But if you can supply the link,

it may (should) stay there and the member will have easy access. Also

I think it is a good time if we get any more articles similar to

national security boardering bioterrorism that we start a folder. I

will leave the folder stuff to Dora. A bit too early to begin a

folder right now. But I do believe that with Nevada and Arizona input

on BT that we may be (as techs) required to know more about these

drugs for national emergencey, we may/will be called to service as

other health care workers are. another drug that will be used in time

of BT is SERPACWA for skin barrier, developed by the military and

released last year.

Just a hunch based upon other literature I have read.

Thank you for your participation on this site and your continued

valuable input.

Respectfully,

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS Chemistry

Founder/Owner

- In , " brendamcpht

<brendamcpht@y...> " <brendamcpht@y...> wrote:

> Thought this was rather interesting even though it really doesn't

> have anything to do with pharmacy teching....to read the whole

> article, go to the FDA homepage...

>

>

> FDA APPROVES PYRIDOSTIGMINE BROMIDE AS PRETREATMENT AGAINST NERVE

GAS

> The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) today announced approval of

> pyridostigmine bromide to increase survival after exposure to

> Soman " nerve gas " poisoning. The product is approved for combat use

> by United States military personnel.

[Guest guest]

Hi J and all

Here's the direct link to the FDA article titled:

FDA APPROVES PYRIDOSTIGMINE BROMIDE AS PRETREATMENT AGAINST NERVE GAS

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00870.html

Click on the 'More Info' option at the bottom of the article to read

the FDA approval letter and a Q & A on the drug w/ regards to nerve gas

and our military personnel.

Dora

Group Mod

[Guest guest]

Dear Dora,

Thank you for your quick internet search and reply.

Respectfully,

Jeanetta

> Hi J and all

> Here's the direct link to the FDA article titled:

> FDA APPROVES PYRIDOSTIGMINE BROMIDE AS PRETREATMENT AGAINST NERVE

GAS

> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00870.html

> Click on the 'More Info' option at the bottom of the article to

read

> the FDA approval letter and a Q & A on the drug w/ regards to nerve

gas

> and our military personnel.

>

> Dora

> Group Mod

[Guest guest]

I did not want to get involved in any more futile, ludicrous, monomaniac non-discussion with Tony, but no matter how long one ignores him he just starts a new thread like this one.

>I notice this forum is full of controversy when it comes to >pathogens, the thought that it may be a multi pathogen infection >doesn't sit well with many one way trafficker's.

Tony,

What ARE you rambling on about AGAIN? We, every single one of us here on I & I KNOW this is a multi pathogen game!

Could the people who think OTHERWISE please speak up now so that you can forever stop earbashing us about what we already know, not only as if we didn't know, but as if we actively thought we were only suffering from one single well-defined, well-identified pathogen (Bb for eg)

>The other sticking point is people's perception that you only get >well when you suffer..

I also think we all AGREE (do you know what the word means :A G R E E, look it up if you don't) that although the notion of the Jarish-Herxheimer reaction is a useful one when treating spirochetal infections, it has been used very loosely on many Lyme and CFIDS forums. We have all worried that we could be confusing "herxing" to be endured and "suffering from some toxic or other cytokine storm, or from bugs fighting back etc" which might need rethinking the approach. Barb has expressed herself many times on the subject, and I think again we all agree (please correct me if this isn't the case).

>The missing the forest for the tree's really >sits high in many forums.

Yes, and the world is a pretty dumb place, unless you hadn't noticed. Are you planning on fixing up what is being said on all forums and replacing it with Tony's best selling title " you're missing the forest for the trees, stoopid"?

>NOW the fact that there have been over 3000 posts and people are so >focused on alot of iffy stuff, they miss the important parts of the >antibiotic literatue..............

Who's missing that absolutely basic, basic, basic part of abx usage?

>SUPERINFECTION... By using a drug that isn't killing your organisms >you run the rsik of developing SUPERINFECTION. This is an infection >that grows under the presence of antimicrobials that aren't doing >the job. So when your so called herxing, you may want to reconsider >and call it a superinfection.The fact that we don't die and live to >tell, makes us comfortable to talk the theory of "I had a herx".>This is something I picked up early in the piece and it was pretty >clear on the amoxacillin instruction sheet or possably off the net.

I am glad you had this revelation by reading the amoxicillin instruction sheet!!!

So you think other people didn't pick up on this "early in the piece" also? We are all aware that whenever we use an antimicrobial we run the risk of getting a superinfection, several superinfections, bacterial, fungal you name them. So we try hard to balance all this out, and yes we sometimes (often) have to switch abx to ensure we are dealing with possible superinfections (ie Clostridium difficile in the gut, that's why using an imidazole the way Wheldon/Stratton do is not a bad idea from that point of view as well as the other aspect they are concerned with ie dealing with elemental/cyst forms).

So sometimes it's a herx and other times it's a superinfection, what's new?

Nelly (couldn't stop myself-ban me if I've been a bad girl)

[Guest guest]

....in fact, if this was a French-speaking list, I would repost something I wrote yesterday on Lyme-fr in which I clearly said: " even if testing unequivocably positive on Bb tests, you can never be sure that Lyme is the major player causing your current symptoms" " it has been demonstrated many times that Bb and other co-infections cause immune dysfunction, so once you are infected with one or several, you can count on being infected with other non-tick-borne infections of all sorts, some infections you'll be able to beat, others you'll just suppress temporarily and others will keep on reactivating" so it's an on-going battle. And THAT'S where I thought the discussion BEGAN on I & I, how do we juggle this complex infectious, inflammatory situation we are finding ourselves in regardless of whether we have a tick-borne pathogen or not. (have I got this wrong?)

Nelly

[infections] something interesting

Hi allI notice this forum is full of controversy when it comes to pathogens, the thought that it may be a multi pathogen infection doesn't sit well with many one way trafficker's.The other sticking point is people's perception that you only get well when you suffer..The missing the forest for the tree's really sits high in many forums.The most important tool we have is antimicrobials. The study into how and what organisms are effectively treated also runs up red flags and creates stories. The first thing I would do if I wss anyone contemplating a drug is to get 5 to 10 pages printed on all the pro's and con's from as many sites as possable... get the widest variation on the drugs pro's and con's.NOW the fact that there have been over 3000 posts and people are so focused on alot of iffy stuff, they miss the important parts of the antibiotic literatue..............SUPERINFECTION... By using a drug that isn't killing your organisms you run the rsik of developing SUPERINFECTION. This is an infection that grows under the presence of antimicrobials that aren't doing the job. So when your so called herxing, you may want to reconsider and call it a superinfection.The fact that we don't die and live to tell, makes us comfortable to talk the theory of "I had a herx".This is something I picked up early in the piece and it was pretty clear on the amoxacillin instruction sheet or possably off the net.tony

[Guest guest]

Nelly:

You have it right.

It's pretty well established that multiple pathogens will

keep each other in check (competing for real-estate in the body),

and that killing off one species may allow another to move into new

territory - or increase their numbers..

And we're loaded with many species (not all pathogenic - and some

that can become pathogenic under the right circumstances).

Barb

> ...in fact, if this was a French-speaking list, I would repost

something I wrote yesterday on Lyme-fr in which I clearly said: "

even if testing unequivocably positive on Bb tests, you can never be

sure that Lyme is the major player causing your current symptoms " "

it has been demonstrated many times that Bb and other co-infections

cause immune dysfunction, so once you are infected with one or

several, you can count on being infected with other non-tick-borne

infections of all sorts, some infections you'll be able to beat,

others you'll just suppress temporarily and others will keep on

reactivating " so it's an on-going battle. And THAT'S where I thought

the discussion BEGAN on I & I, how do we juggle this complex

infectious, inflammatory situation we are finding ourselves in

regardless of whether we have a tick-borne pathogen or not. (have I

got this wrong?)

>

> Nelly

> [infections] something interesting

>

>

> Hi all

> I notice this forum is full of controversy when it comes to

> pathogens, the thought that it may be a multi pathogen infection

> doesn't sit well with many one way trafficker's.

> The other sticking point is people's perception that you only get

> well when you suffer..The missing the forest for the tree's

really

> sits high in many forums.The most important tool we have is

> antimicrobials. The study into how and what organisms are

> effectively treated also runs up red flags and creates stories.

The

> first thing I would do if I wss anyone contemplating a drug is to

> get 5 to 10 pages printed on all the pro's and con's from as many

> sites as possable... get the widest variation on the drugs pro's

> and con's.

> NOW the fact that there have been over 3000 posts and people are

so

> focused on alot of iffy stuff, they miss the important parts of

the

> antibiotic literatue..............

> SUPERINFECTION... By using a drug that isn't killing your

organisms

> you run the rsik of developing SUPERINFECTION. This is an

infection

> that grows under the presence of antimicrobials that aren't doing

> the job. So when your so called herxing, you may want to

reconsider

> and call it a superinfection.The fact that we don't die and live

to

> tell, makes us comfortable to talk the theory of " I had a herx " .

> This is something I picked up early in the piece and it was

pretty

> clear on the amoxacillin instruction sheet or possably off the

net.

> tony

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nope, you're right on, Nelly. But you have to remember that

relatively speaking, it's only a few of us who are starting at that

point. So even though you've nailed the purpose of the list, it

doesn't mean we don't need to keep revisiting the old themes. Many

people are very misled or confused by a lot of the information

that's out there, information that's changed drastically over a few

years time. It's hard to keep the big picture in mind when when the

trend is to get very excited about one part of it at a time.

But your translation of your French post is right on and I'm glad

you posted it here. Even though you're french, you're easier to

understand than a lot of native english speakers. :-)

penny

> ...in fact, if this was a French-speaking list, I would repost

something I wrote yesterday on Lyme-fr in which I clearly said: "

even if testing unequivocably positive on Bb tests, you can never be

sure that Lyme is the major player causing your current symptoms " "

it has been demonstrated many times that Bb and other co-infections

cause immune dysfunction, so once you are infected with one or

several, you can count on being infected with other non-tick-borne

infections of all sorts, some infections you'll be able to beat,

others you'll just suppress temporarily and others will keep on

reactivating " so it's an on-going battle. And THAT'S where I

thought the discussion BEGAN on I & I, how do we juggle this complex

infectious, inflammatory situation we are finding ourselves in

regardless of whether we have a tick-borne pathogen or not. (have I

got this wrong?)

>

[Guest guest]

I 100% AGREE with Nelly, sooooo what is the problem? Others may not

understand this yet, but those of us here seem to. We're beating the

dead horse right here, maybe we need to take this info to other

forums instead of arguing when we really seem to agree. I have no

problem with what Tony says,although he is ignorant about Lyme and

Mycos still.

> I did not want to get involved in any more futile, ludicrous,

monomaniac non-discussion with Tony, but no matter how long one

ignores him he just starts a new thread like this one.

>

> >I notice this forum is full of controversy when it comes to

> >pathogens, the thought that it may be a multi pathogen infection

> >doesn't sit well with many one way trafficker's.

>

> Tony,

>

> What ARE you rambling on about AGAIN? We, every single one of us

here on I & I KNOW this is a multi pathogen game!

>

> Could the people who think OTHERWISE please speak up now so that

you can forever stop earbashing us about what we already know, not

only as if we didn't know, but as if we actively thought we were

only suffering from one single well-defined, well-identified

pathogen (Bb for eg)

>

> >The other sticking point is people's perception that you only get

> >well when you suffer..

>

> I also think we all AGREE (do you know what the word means :A G R

E E, look it up if you don't) that although the notion of the Jarish-

Herxheimer reaction is a useful one when treating spirochetal

infections, it has been used very loosely on many Lyme and CFIDS

forums. We have all worried that we could be confusing " herxing " to

be endured and " suffering from some toxic or other cytokine storm,

or from bugs fighting back etc " which might need rethinking the

approach. Barb has expressed herself many times on the subject, and

I think again we all agree (please correct me if this isn't the

case).

>

> >The missing the forest for the tree's really

> >sits high in many forums.

>

> Yes, and the world is a pretty dumb place, unless you hadn't

noticed. Are you planning on fixing up what is being said on all

forums and replacing it with Tony's best selling title " you're

missing the forest for the trees, stoopid " ?

>

>

> >NOW the fact that there have been over 3000 posts and people are

so

> >focused on alot of iffy stuff, they miss the important parts of

the

> >antibiotic literatue..............

>

> Who's missing that absolutely basic, basic, basic part of abx

usage?

>

> >SUPERINFECTION... By using a drug that isn't killing your

organisms

> >you run the rsik of developing SUPERINFECTION. This is an

infection

> >that grows under the presence of antimicrobials that aren't doing

> >the job. So when your so called herxing, you may want to

reconsider

> >and call it a superinfection.The fact that we don't die and live

to

> >tell, makes us comfortable to talk the theory of " I had a herx " .

> >This is something I picked up early in the piece and it was

pretty

> >clear on the amoxacillin instruction sheet or possably off the

net.

>

> I am glad you had this revelation by reading the amoxicillin

instruction sheet!!!

>

> So you think other people didn't pick up on this " early in the

piece " also? We are all aware that whenever we use an antimicrobial

we run the risk of getting a superinfection, several

superinfections, bacterial, fungal you name them. So we try hard to

balance all this out, and yes we sometimes (often) have to switch

abx to ensure we are dealing with possible superinfections (ie

Clostridium difficile in the gut, that's why using an imidazole the

way Wheldon/Stratton do is not a bad idea from that point of view as

well as the other aspect they are concerned with ie dealing with

elemental/cyst forms).

>

> So sometimes it's a herx and other times it's a superinfection,

what's new?

>

> Nelly (couldn't stop myself-ban me if I've been a bad girl)

[Guest guest]

Nelly

Can you point to me one discussion in the 3000 plus posts that

mentions using the wrong drug can give you superinfection. I think

there's possably 500 plus that mention herx as the only thing that

happens when using therapy.

Where are you coming from!!!!!!

I recall early in my ilness not wanting to use abx but decided to

learn as much as possable about each drug I was taking.

Facts are facts and I don't see too many people stick to the basic's

of these principles. There's basically 2 kinds of medical speak the

autoimmune spiel and the doctor treating the infected patient spiel.

The second one is disregarded and ignored by the autoimmune

community but occurs millions of times over in many hospital systems

in the world and does come with a relatively high success rate.These

people are deathly ill they get treatment (mainly IV) guided by

cultures (when VERY ILL) and most have a great outcome. I don't

think this has ever been mentioned in the 3000 posts as well. Or can

you please tell me I'm stupid for not believing that people already

know this. I don't think anyone here has mentioned the

aminoglycoside drugs used to treat serious infections, these don't

even come into discussion.

Gentamicin, akimicin, tobramycin,streptomycin, vanco,

cephalothin.Why are these topics not discussed. Our ilnesses need

discussion of varying magnitude and it seems that your the clown

that keeps it blinkered- I run the gammit of chasing bacteria in the

chronically ill and trying to find what they contribute to the

scheme of things.

tony

> I did not want to get involved in any more futile, ludicrous,

monomaniac non-discussion with Tony, but no matter how long one

ignores him he just starts a new thread like this one.

>

> >I notice this forum is full of controversy when it comes to

> >pathogens, the thought that it may be a multi pathogen infection

> >doesn't sit well with many one way trafficker's.

>

> Tony,

>

> What ARE you rambling on about AGAIN? We, every single one of us

here on I & I KNOW this is a multi pathogen game!

>

> Could the people who think OTHERWISE please speak up now so that

you can forever stop earbashing us about what we already know, not

only as if we didn't know, but as if we actively thought we were

only suffering from one single well-defined, well-identified

pathogen (Bb for eg)

>

> >The other sticking point is people's perception that you only get

> >well when you suffer..

>

> I also think we all AGREE (do you know what the word means :A G R

E E, look it up if you don't) that although the notion of the Jarish-

Herxheimer reaction is a useful one when treating spirochetal

infections, it has been used very loosely on many Lyme and CFIDS

forums. We have all worried that we could be confusing " herxing " to

be endured and " suffering from some toxic or other cytokine storm,

or from bugs fighting back etc " which might need rethinking the

approach. Barb has expressed herself many times on the subject, and

I think again we all agree (please correct me if this isn't the

case).

>

> >The missing the forest for the tree's really

> >sits high in many forums.

>

> Yes, and the world is a pretty dumb place, unless you hadn't

noticed. Are you planning on fixing up what is being said on all

forums and replacing it with Tony's best selling title " you're

missing the forest for the trees, stoopid " ?

>

>

> >NOW the fact that there have been over 3000 posts and people are

so

> >focused on alot of iffy stuff, they miss the important parts of

the

> >antibiotic literatue..............

>

> Who's missing that absolutely basic, basic, basic part of abx

usage?

>

> >SUPERINFECTION... By using a drug that isn't killing your

organisms

> >you run the rsik of developing SUPERINFECTION. This is an

infection

> >that grows under the presence of antimicrobials that aren't doing

> >the job. So when your so called herxing, you may want to

reconsider

> >and call it a superinfection.The fact that we don't die and live

to

> >tell, makes us comfortable to talk the theory of " I had a herx " .

> >This is something I picked up early in the piece and it was

pretty

> >clear on the amoxacillin instruction sheet or possably off the

net.

>

> I am glad you had this revelation by reading the amoxicillin

instruction sheet!!!

>

> So you think other people didn't pick up on this " early in the

piece " also? We are all aware that whenever we use an antimicrobial

we run the risk of getting a superinfection, several

superinfections, bacterial, fungal you name them. So we try hard to

balance all this out, and yes we sometimes (often) have to switch

abx to ensure we are dealing with possible superinfections (ie

Clostridium difficile in the gut, that's why using an imidazole the

way Wheldon/Stratton do is not a bad idea from that point of view as

well as the other aspect they are concerned with ie dealing with

elemental/cyst forms).

>

> So sometimes it's a herx and other times it's a superinfection,

what's new?

>

> Nelly (couldn't stop myself-ban me if I've been a bad girl)

[Guest guest]

>I don't think anyone here has mentioned the >aminoglycoside drugs used to treat serious infections, these don't >even come into discussion.

I have mentioned aminoglycosides, several times. I have posted studies that say they are the eonly way to go with Brucellosis and Bartonellosis in combo with doxy for eg.

I can't remember how many times I posted various research by this particular group for eg

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=PubMed

But, Tony, aminoglycosides are not easy drugs to use when you do not have access to a willing medical practitioner (Gentamycin has no oral formula) and they can be problematic (ototoxic) if you have the wrong genotype, and they can be very toxic for the kidneys as well.

>Why are these topics not discussed. Our ilnesses need >discussion of varying magnitude and it seems that your the clown >that keeps it blinkered-

I BEG YOUR PARDON?!!!!!!

Nelly

>Gentamicin, akimicin, tobramycin,streptomycin, vanco, >cephalothin. I run the gammit of chasing bacteria in the chronically ill and trying to find what they contribute to the scheme of things.tony> I did not want to get involved in any more futile, ludicrous, monomaniac non-discussion with Tony, but no matter how long one ignores him he just starts a new thread like this one. > > >I notice this forum is full of controversy when it comes to > >pathogens, the thought that it may be a multi pathogen infection > >doesn't sit well with many one way trafficker's.> > Tony,> > What ARE you rambling on about AGAIN? We, every single one of us here on I & I KNOW this is a multi pathogen game! > > Could the people who think OTHERWISE please speak up now so that you can forever stop earbashing us about what we already know, not only as if we didn't know, but as if we actively thought we were only suffering from one single well-defined, well-identified pathogen (Bb for eg)> > >The other sticking point is people's perception that you only get > >well when you suffer..> > I also think we all AGREE (do you know what the word means :A G R E E, look it up if you don't) that although the notion of the Jarish-Herxheimer reaction is a useful one when treating spirochetal infections, it has been used very loosely on many Lyme and CFIDS forums. We have all worried that we could be confusing "herxing" to be endured and "suffering from some toxic or other cytokine storm, or from bugs fighting back etc" which might need rethinking the approach. Barb has expressed herself many times on the subject, and I think again we all agree (please correct me if this isn't the case).> > >The missing the forest for the tree's really > >sits high in many forums.> > Yes, and the world is a pretty dumb place, unless you hadn't noticed. Are you planning on fixing up what is being said on all forums and replacing it with Tony's best selling title " you're missing the forest for the trees, stoopid"? > > > >NOW the fact that there have been over 3000 posts and people are so > >focused on alot of iffy stuff, they miss the important parts of the > >antibiotic literatue..............> > Who's missing that absolutely basic, basic, basic part of abx usage?> > >SUPERINFECTION... By using a drug that isn't killing your organisms > >you run the rsik of developing SUPERINFECTION. This is an infection > >that grows under the presence of antimicrobials that aren't doing > >the job. So when your so called herxing, you may want to reconsider > >and call it a superinfection.The fact that we don't die and live to > >tell, makes us comfortable to talk the theory of "I had a herx".> >This is something I picked up early in the piece and it was pretty > >clear on the amoxacillin instruction sheet or possably off the net.> > I am glad you had this revelation by reading the amoxicillin instruction sheet!!!> > So you think other people didn't pick up on this "early in the piece" also? We are all aware that whenever we use an antimicrobial we run the risk of getting a superinfection, several superinfections, bacterial, fungal you name them. So we try hard to balance all this out, and yes we sometimes (often) have to switch abx to ensure we are dealing with possible superinfections (ie Clostridium difficile in the gut, that's why using an imidazole the way Wheldon/Stratton do is not a bad idea from that point of view as well as the other aspect they are concerned with ie dealing with elemental/cyst forms).> > So sometimes it's a herx and other times it's a superinfection, what's new?> > Nelly (couldn't stop myself-ban me if I've been a bad girl)

[Guest guest]

Here in australia and even new zealand the french are disliked

immensley (due to there arrogance). I now understand those

feeling's. I actually think the americans feel the same way toward's

the french, if I'm not wrong.

I come to the forum with a different mindset than most and I don't

fit the rambling of the day, but that's what makes an interesting

forum. I find myself between what conventional medicine does and

what autoimmune is all about.

I look at a current discussion like the heart inflammatory thingy

going on and only have a passion for getting the pathogens at the

heart of the problem Id'd. It would bare no fruit to tell me I have,

you have, he has this condition and spend the next ten years reading

articles on an autoimmune inflammatory abnormality that no-one has

bothered to fix or understand possable causes and cures.

The grunt issues are the therapies. I really attempt to find a group

of drugs that can revert our ilness without building resistance and

have the score on the board for pathogen eradication.This is my only

drive.. I visit many forums on many disease conditions and it's all

the same thing. Your focus is very narrow, people having a knee

replacement end up with autoimmune ilness.

I think... You bagged me early in the piece when I said I like

antifungals because they kill bacteria... Was this another silly

rambling beating the chest thing in your opinion?

tony

> > I did not want to get involved in any more futile, ludicrous,

> monomaniac non-discussion with Tony, but no matter how long one

> ignores him he just starts a new thread like this one.

> >

> > >I notice this forum is full of controversy when it comes to

> > >pathogens, the thought that it may be a multi pathogen

infection

> > >doesn't sit well with many one way trafficker's.

> >

> > Tony,

> >

> > What ARE you rambling on about AGAIN? We, every single one of

us

> here on I & I KNOW this is a multi pathogen game!

> >

> > Could the people who think OTHERWISE please speak up now so that

> you can forever stop earbashing us about what we already know, not

> only as if we didn't know, but as if we actively thought we were

> only suffering from one single well-defined, well-identified

> pathogen (Bb for eg)

> >

> > >The other sticking point is people's perception that you only

get

> > >well when you suffer..

> >

> > I also think we all AGREE (do you know what the word means :A G

R

> E E, look it up if you don't) that although the notion of the

Jarish-

> Herxheimer reaction is a useful one when treating spirochetal

> infections, it has been used very loosely on many Lyme and CFIDS

> forums. We have all worried that we could be confusing " herxing "

to

> be endured and " suffering from some toxic or other cytokine storm,

> or from bugs fighting back etc " which might need rethinking the

> approach. Barb has expressed herself many times on the subject,

and

> I think again we all agree (please correct me if this isn't the

> case).

> >

> > >The missing the forest for the tree's really

> > >sits high in many forums.

> >

> > Yes, and the world is a pretty dumb place, unless you hadn't

> noticed. Are you planning on fixing up what is being said on all

> forums and replacing it with Tony's best selling title " you're

> missing the forest for the trees, stoopid " ?

> >

> >

> > >NOW the fact that there have been over 3000 posts and people

are

> so

> > >focused on alot of iffy stuff, they miss the important parts of

> the

> > >antibiotic literatue..............

> >

> > Who's missing that absolutely basic, basic, basic part of abx

> usage?

> >

> > >SUPERINFECTION... By using a drug that isn't killing your

> organisms

> > >you run the rsik of developing SUPERINFECTION. This is an

> infection

> > >that grows under the presence of antimicrobials that aren't

doing

> > >the job. So when your so called herxing, you may want to

> reconsider

> > >and call it a superinfection.The fact that we don't die and

live

> to

> > >tell, makes us comfortable to talk the theory of " I had a herx " .

> > >This is something I picked up early in the piece and it was

> pretty

> > >clear on the amoxacillin instruction sheet or possably off the

> net.

> >

> > I am glad you had this revelation by reading the amoxicillin

> instruction sheet!!!

> >

> > So you think other people didn't pick up on this " early in the

> piece " also? We are all aware that whenever we use an

antimicrobial

> we run the risk of getting a superinfection, several

> superinfections, bacterial, fungal you name them. So we try hard

to

> balance all this out, and yes we sometimes (often) have to switch

> abx to ensure we are dealing with possible superinfections (ie

> Clostridium difficile in the gut, that's why using an imidazole

the

> way Wheldon/Stratton do is not a bad idea from that point of view

as

> well as the other aspect they are concerned with ie dealing with

> elemental/cyst forms).

> >

> > So sometimes it's a herx and other times it's a superinfection,

> what's new?

> >

> > Nelly (couldn't stop myself-ban me if I've been a bad girl)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, re last post with link to aminoglycosides,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=PubMed

it didn't keep the whole link you have to type in "Raoult aminoglycosides" to get to where I wanted to take you

Nelly

Re: [infections] Re: something interesting

>I don't think anyone here has mentioned the >aminoglycoside drugs used to treat serious infections, these don't >even come into discussion.

I have mentioned aminoglycosides, several times. I have posted studies that say they are the eonly way to go with Brucellosis and Bartonellosis in combo with doxy for eg.

I can't remember how many times I posted various research by this particular group for eg

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=PubMed

But, Tony, aminoglycosides are not easy drugs to use when you do not have access to a willing medical practitioner (Gentamycin has no oral formula) and they can be problematic (ototoxic) if you have the wrong genotype, and they can be very toxic for the kidneys as well.

[Guest guest]

Here in Canada we like the French, as many of us are French. I guess

that makes us more open-minded. Not that we don't tease each other. I

don't see any little smilies after your statement, Tony, to indicate

that you are teasing. Which of course you must be....

- Kate

On Friday, May 27, 2005, at 02:28 PM, dumbaussie2000 wrote:

> Here in australia and even new zealand the french are disliked

> immensley (due to there arrogance). I now understand those

> feeling's. I actually think the americans feel the same way toward's

> the french, if I'm not wrong.

[Guest guest]

No need to feel guilty. I think the acknowledgment

that this is NOT a gift from Mecca from everyone is

enough. Many treatments eg in cancer for example save

some ppl and do nothing for others. Who knows why.

For those of us who have had a less than hoped for

result, it is important that this is acknowledged by

others who are more lucky (and I am sure luck has

something to do with it!!!

(on xolair since April 2005, still on pred and hiding

inside due to the smog warning!!)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> Last Thursday (6/14 ) I was at a Xolair meeting with a bunch of

> Nurses and a Pulmonologist who is a " Xolair Physician Speaker. "

> The doctor said that they have patients who are asthmatic and also

> suffer from C.F. on Xolair and it is doing wonders for them!!! She

> said that it is amazing to see how well those patients are doing!

>

>

> This drug continues to amaze me on how well it works for some but yet

> not for others. I've met people who are steroid intolerant and who

> have compromised immune systems who are seeing major postivie

> results in controlling their asthma,since going on Xolair. Yet we

> have others who come in here and say it isn't working for them and

> that they are giving up on Xolair. <----- How frustrating that must

> be!

>

> I sometimes feel a bit guilty that it has done so well for me. The

> quality of my life has improved so much that it boggles my mind

> sometimes. Today in " upstate NY " it's in the mid 90's and we have

> an Ozone allert for the elderly and people with respitory

> problems....and I feel fine! I was out twice to water my vegetable

> garden. I came in because I was to hot. NOT because I was having

> problems breathing, like I would have been two years ago!

>

> At the end of August I will reach my 100 shot marker!!! Sounds like

> I'm right behing you Doug!!

>

> K

Friday (June) I get my 99th and 100th Xolair shots.

Since my training in New Mexico, no one has called and asked me to

speak. You want to fly my wife and I to NY to speak for you? We can

get a vacation in while we are at it ))) (GRIN)

It is hot and humid here in NW Arkansas and I am having to use a

rescue inhaler more than once a day now but NO PREDNISONE!

I remember those hot summers when I was on 40-60 mg a day the whole

summer long. Sometimes, the only real relief I got wast an ER visit,

hospital stay with a Solu-Medrol IV in my arm. With that, I had to

worry about my blood sugar and weight going through the roof again.

All I can say is THANK GOD FOR X0LAIR!

Doug

Group founder

[Guest guest]

Go Xolair, Go Xolair, get busy, get busy!

--- In , " " <grneyyedlady@...>

wrote:

>

> Last Thursday (6/14 ) I was at a Xolair meeting with a bunch of

> Nurses and a Pulmonologist who is a " Xolair Physician Speaker. "

> The doctor said that they have patients who are asthmatic and also

> suffer from C.F. on Xolair and it is doing wonders for them!!! She

> said that it is amazing to see how well those patients are doing!

>

>

> This drug continues to amaze me on how well it works for some but

yet

> not for others. I've met people who are steroid intolerant and who

> have compromised immune systems who are seeing major postivie

> results in controlling their asthma,since going on Xolair. Yet we

> have others who come in here and say it isn't working for them and

> that they are giving up on Xolair. <----- How frustrating that must

> be!

>

> I sometimes feel a bit guilty that it has done so well for me.

The

> quality of my life has improved so much that it boggles my mind

> sometimes. Today in " upstate NY " it's in the mid 90's and we

have

> an Ozone allert for the elderly and people with respitory

> problems....and I feel fine! I was out twice to water my vegetable

> garden. I came in because I was to hot. NOT because I was having

> problems breathing, like I would have been two years ago!

>

> At the end of August I will reach my 100 shot marker!!! Sounds

like

> I'm right behing you Doug!!

>

> K

>

[Guest guest]

It's been INSANE!! I had 3 requests to do speaking

engagements on 6/14. Two were down in NYC-75 miles

from home and the other was 50 miles from home. I

opted for the one that was 50 miles from home. I

think the next time I talk to my " PR " person, I'm

going to ask her if I could recommend another Xolair

Patient Speaker, in case I can't do it!

This area of NY is really lovely. A LOT of " Yankee "

Historical places and some really great wineries. We

have one, walking distance down the road from us that

makes this really nice red that is infused with

locally grown raspberries....fittingly called

Raspberry Red. ( LOL!) In the past,I was never able to

drink it because I USED to be allergic to sulphates.

Now because of Xolair I can have a glass of red wine ,

or anything else for that matter with sulfates in it!

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Bored stiff? Loosen up...

Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games.

http://games./games/front

[Guest guest]

Wine? What was that? Wineries? I LOVE wine. I love wineries.

Addy

Who also enjoys a life full of sulfates.

>

> It's been INSANE!! I had 3 requests to do speaking

> engagements on 6/14. Two were down in NYC-75 miles

> from home and the other was 50 miles from home. I

> opted for the one that was 50 miles from home. I

> think the next time I talk to my " PR " person, I'm

> going to ask her if I could recommend another Xolair

> Patient Speaker, in case I can't do it!

>

> This area of NY is really lovely. A LOT of " Yankee "

> Historical places and some really great wineries. We

> have one, walking distance down the road from us that

> makes this really nice red that is infused with

> locally grown raspberries....fittingly called

> Raspberry Red. ( LOL!) In the past,I was never able to

> drink it because I USED to be allergic to sulphates.

> Now because of Xolair I can have a glass of red wine ,

> or anything else for that matter with sulfates in it!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Bored stiff? Loosen up...

> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games.

> http://games./games/front

>

[Guest guest]

LOL!!! well..I guess y'all will just have to come to

NY and find out! Besides " I LOVE NY " , " Uncork NY "

is another one of our famous slogans! You name it,

we've got it! The four wine regions here produce so

many different varieties and then some! We have a

local winery that makes Kosher wines,another that

makes Mead, and another one that even makes their own

Limonchello. THAT is YUMMY!!!!! New slogan for

Xolair<---- " improves your quality of life so much

that you CAN have that recommended glass of red wine

every day! " LOL!!

Ok...seriously....

Has anyone else in here, besides Addy and I, had

problems pre Xolair with sulfates. AND anyone noticed

that their food allergies have decreased or are now

nonexistent since going on Xolair??

--- pyle456 <coachmac@...> wrote:

> Wine? What was that? Wineries? I LOVE wine. I

> love wineries.

>

> Addy

> Who also enjoys a life full of sulfates.

>

>

> >

> > It's been INSANE!! I had 3 requests to do

> speaking

> > engagements on 6/14. Two were down in NYC-75

> miles

> > from home and the other was 50 miles from home.

> I

> > opted for the one that was 50 miles from home.

> I

> > think the next time I talk to my " PR " person, I'm

> > going to ask her if I could recommend another

> Xolair

> > Patient Speaker, in case I can't do it!

> >

> > This area of NY is really lovely. A LOT of

> " Yankee "

> > Historical places and some really great wineries.

> We

> > have one, walking distance down the road from us

> that

> > makes this really nice red that is infused with

> > locally grown raspberries....fittingly called

> > Raspberry Red. ( LOL!) In the past,I was never

> able to

> > drink it because I USED to be allergic to

> sulphates.

> > Now because of Xolair I can have a glass of red

> wine ,

> > or anything else for that matter with sulfates in

> it!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> ______________

> > Bored stiff? Loosen up...

> > Download and play hundreds of games for free on

> Games.

> > http://games./games/front

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

___

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[Guest guest]

I have been on Xolair for over 3 years.  I have noticed that my anaphylactic

reaction to tree nuts has diminished.  I have accidentally eaten some tree nuts

(they seem to be in EVERYTHING).  I had a reaction but it was much milder than

normal.  I figured it was the Xolair that was helping. 

Suzanne

TX

-----Original Message-----

From: K K <grneyyedlady@...>

Sent: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:13 am

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Something interesting

LOL!!! well..I guess y'all will just have to come to

NY and find out! Besides " I LOVE NY " , " Uncork NY "

is another one of our famous slogans! You name it,

we've got it! The four wine regions here produce so

many different varieties and then some! We have a

local winery that makes Kosher wines,another that

makes Mead, and another one that even makes their own

Limonchello. THAT is YUMMY!!!!! New slogan for

Xolair<---- " improves your quality of life so much

that you CAN have that recommended glass of red wine

every day! " LOL!!

Ok...seriously....

Has anyone else in here, besides Addy and I, had

problems pre Xolair with sulfates. AND anyone noticed

that their food allergies have decreased or are now

nonexistent since going on Xolair??

--- pyle456 <coachmac@...> wrote:

> Wine? What was that? Wineries? I LOVE wine. I

> love wineries.

>

> Addy

> Who also enjoys a life full of sulfates.

>

>

> >

> > It's been INSANE!! I had 3 requests to do

> speaking

> > engagements on 6/14. Two were down in NYC-75

> miles

> > from home and the other was 50 miles from home.

> I

> > opted for the one that was 50 miles from home.

> I

> > think the next time I talk to my " PR " person, I'm

> > going to ask her if I could recommend another

> Xolair

> > Patient Speaker, in case I can't do it!

> >

> > This area of NY is really lovely. A LOT of

> " Yankee "

> > Historical places and some really great wineries.

> We

> > have one, walking distance down the road from us

> that

> > makes this really nice red that is infused with

> > locally grown raspberries....fittingly called

> > Raspberry Red. ( LOL!) In the past,I was never

> able to

> > drink it because I USED to be allergic to

> sulphates.

> > Now because of Xolair I can have a glass of red

> wine ,

> > or anything else for that matter with sulfates in

> it!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

__________________________________________________________

> ______________

> > Bored stiff? Loosen up...

> > Download and play hundreds of games for free on

> Games.

> > http://games./games/front

> >

>

>

>

__________________________________________________________

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in the all-new Beta.

http://advision.webevents./mailbeta/newmail_html.html

________________________________________________________________________

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at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

ahhh, NY...i'm about 45 minutes from teh wineries here on long

island....and i don't like wine. i know, there's somethign wrong

with me.

for the longest time, any alcohol (liquor or beer/malt beverages)

would cause me to break out in crazy hives - but since xolair, i've

had none of that. the hives were so bizzare though!!!

> > >

> > > It's been INSANE!! I had 3 requests to do

> > speaking

> > > engagements on 6/14. Two were down in NYC-75

> > miles

> > > from home and the other was 50 miles from home.

> > I

> > > opted for the one that was 50 miles from home.

> > I

> > > think the next time I talk to my " PR " person, I'm

> > > going to ask her if I could recommend another

> > Xolair

> > > Patient Speaker, in case I can't do it!

> > >

> > > This area of NY is really lovely. A LOT of

> > " Yankee "

> > > Historical places and some really great wineries.

> > We

> > > have one, walking distance down the road from us

> > that

> > > makes this really nice red that is infused with

> > > locally grown raspberries....fittingly called

> > > Raspberry Red. ( LOL!) In the past,I was never

> > able to

> > > drink it because I USED to be allergic to

> > sulphates.

> > > Now because of Xolair I can have a glass of red

> > wine ,

> > > or anything else for that matter with sulfates in

> > it!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_

> > ______________

> > > Bored stiff? Loosen up...

> > > Download and play hundreds of games for free on

> > Games.

> > > http://games./games/front

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

______________

> You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck

> in the all-new Beta.

> http://advision.webevents./mailbeta/newmail_html.html

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Isn't it wonderful? I feel great too. I've been on Xolair since 2004, and

I'm doing marvelous. I know some people are using the Xolair because their

allergic to dogs, cats etc. If that's the case maybe their the ones that are

not faring too well. I'm from Scarsdale NY, and there are times the air is very

bad, yet thank God, I'm doing fine.

Happy breathing,

Kathy

<grneyyedlady@...> wrote:

Last Thursday (6/14 ) I was at a Xolair meeting with a bunch of

Nurses and a Pulmonologist who is a " Xolair Physician Speaker. "

The doctor said that they have patients who are asthmatic and also

suffer from C.F. on Xolair and it is doing wonders for them!!! She

said that it is amazing to see how well those patients are doing!

This drug continues to amaze me on how well it works for some but yet

not for others. I've met people who are steroid intolerant and who

have compromised immune systems who are seeing major postivie

results in controlling their asthma,since going on Xolair. Yet we

have others who come in here and say it isn't working for them and

that they are giving up on Xolair. <----- How frustrating that must

be!

I sometimes feel a bit guilty that it has done so well for me. The

quality of my life has improved so much that it boggles my mind

sometimes. Today in " upstate NY " it's in the mid 90's and we have

an Ozone allert for the elderly and people with respitory

problems....and I feel fine! I was out twice to water my vegetable

garden. I came in because I was to hot. NOT because I was having

problems breathing, like I would have been two years ago!

At the end of August I will reach my 100 shot marker!!! Sounds like

I'm right behing you Doug!!

K

---------------------------------

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