Guest guest Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 > If any of you are interested, the air purifier I used is made by a company > called Shaklee Corporation, a company I use to supply my supplements. > There are both whole house and portable models. We own 4 cats plus a German Shepard, so I've been experimenting with air purifiers for 10 years. In fact, I think I've probably spent more time and money trying out the various air purifiers on the market than I have EMF protection devices! That said, one of the air purifiers I have is the mobile model from Shaklee (the Airsource Mobile). I agree that it's a nice little device, and works well. The Airsource models are probably the most expensive on the market, but I think they are also the most professionally made -- as if SONY was making them... :-) As a result of their high cost, I've actually been buying Biozone Scientific models, which are are less expensive, but also cheaply made. They seem to do the job, though. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2005 Report Share Posted May 25, 2005 Hi all interested My husband saw a report from Consumers report that said the Sharper Image did not do what it claimed and was not recommended. There were some recommendations as to which ones to buy. If I can find out which ones work from the report, I'll post the info. Arlene In a message dated 5/24/2005 9:05:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, valip@... writes: I have not read this about the Sharper Image air purifier, though I am certainly not going to dispute what you say. What I HAVE read about it is that it producesozone, which is really bad for asthma patients. So as well as they want to claim it works, it seems that it is one to stay away from. Did Consumer Reports say anything about the Oreck air purifier? (I'm also trying to figure out which one I want to get for my apartment.)ValiFrom: "RaeAndDoug Bower" Date: Tue May 24, 2005 4:21 pm Subject: RE: Interferon Beta 1a and LDNHi there! Consumer Reports recently did a review of the Sharper Image purifier and said it didn't do a damned thing. Buyer beware -- it may be a scam!R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I tried a Oreck one time but didn't take me long to mess it up cleaning it and they took it back and gave me a credit on card. Someone with a Holmes said they ran theirs all the time and came home to it smoking so that scares me about leaving them one all the time or when sleeping but I do have fire alarms. I may try another in the bedroom and turn off when gone. If I didn't have animals, maybe the HEPA would catch on fire and burn this mold hole up.. I pulled my refridgerator out yesterday and nasty under there. My fridge had a panel on the bottom back so I didn't try to remove to clean drip pan. Thought I might mess something up. I was just thinking about the bag of carbon I have under my house. It goes in a whole house water purifier. Could it be contaminated with mold from the dampness. Seems it has a twist tie on the plastic bag but I'm not sure it has always been closed tight. One bag last me 3 different tank changes. Mostly just keeps chlorine out of water. Wish it did more. I have a Dupont one on my kitchen faucet and going to get one for the bathroom. Does anyone know which faucet filters are the best? I got the Dupont b/c it has some type microbal something that helps the filter stay clean. Something like that... Rhonda > > > > > > Are you taking cholestyramine? > > > > > > Also, you *need* to clean out whatever ducts you have and make sure > > > that you are not continuing to inhale that stuff in any way you > > can. > > > > > > If you have not already, buy a BIG air cleaner too. Not the little > > > ones from Wallgreens, a big, high-volume unit that can move serious > > > air through it. > > > > > > I have a Whirlpool " Whispure " 450 unit that I paid about $250 for > > and > > > it seems to create a sort of safe zone in the room it is in.. I > > got it > > > because it was top rated in Consumer Reports and indeed, it is ten > > > times better than the Holmes unit it replaced. > > > > > > Seriously... Do this now.. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 www.allergybuyersclub.com OR maybe get the best rated IQair one. Decisions to make...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Me again.. the IQ HealthPro says 43.6db in noise on speed 1. Anyone know if that is quite. Rhonda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 The IQ cleanroom filters last long, are more expensive but can last 4.5years(HEPA) and prefilter 1-2 years. Under normal evironmental conditions.A mold infested house?They will last just a couple of months. Rhonda please do a search on Aflatoxins in hay. > > > > Actually, only around 2% of homes tested for mold have > stachybotrys. > > You need to have really high humidity (~80%) for stachy to start > > growing, its not a normal situation. > > > > Its higher (the percentage of moldy houses) for the others.. But > not > > all molds are toxic, and there are big variations in how toxic they > > are. > > > > If you have stachy or aspergilus/penicillium, the chances are high > > that you have a seious problem. Chaetmonium, Alternaria and a few > > others are also neurotoxic, carcinogenic, etc. > > > > (but not as bad, it seems, life-ruining wise) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit can potentially just spread the stuff around). And HEPA filters don't remove the sources of moisture that caused the contamination in the first place. If you don't either remove the contamination from the premises, or else remove yourself from the contamination first, nothing is going to help all that much. More on that in a sec. Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@...> wrote: Me again.. the IQ HealthPro says 43.6db in noise on speed 1. Anyone know if that is quite. Rhonda FAIR USE NOTICE: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I've got a call into waterproofing companies. I just want a way to make the air in in better until I can get it all figured out. I cannot do mold remediation, waterproofing, get new plenum and air ducts all at once. It will also take years and years for the dirt to dry out under my house and I doubt there is a way for it not to mold again. We are talking wet ground that goes beyond the underground foundation. It may never dry out under there in my lifetime. How can it? It looks like these IQ filters are much better than those tiny ones are. Rhonda > Me again.. the IQ HealthPro says 43.6db in noise on speed 1. Anyone > know if that is quite. > > Rhonda > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I've been doing searches on so much my head is spinning. Do you know about these IQ Filters? They may be better and last longer. This air purifier best rated purifier. I will search about the hay. I just do not know where to put the hays for the bunnies. I've had neuro symptoms for 10 years and only hays in the house 3 years. Seems if they were contaminated badly, the bunnies would be dead. It's really hard where to start and seems some people make it sound so easy and it's not. I haven't even got the money yet and not sure I can get an equity loan with a subsidized mortgage loan. Going to check this week. Going to see if I can get more credit on my Visa. Credit Union is much lower interest than those cards that try to give high limits with HIGH interest rates. Rhonda > > > > > > Actually, only around 2% of homes tested for mold have > > stachybotrys. > > > You need to have really high humidity (~80%) for stachy to start > > > growing, its not a normal situation. > > > > > > Its higher (the percentage of moldy houses) for the others.. But > > not > > > all molds are toxic, and there are big variations in how toxic > they > > > are. > > > > > > If you have stachy or aspergilus/penicillium, the chances are > high > > > that you have a seious problem. Chaetmonium, Alternaria and a few > > > others are also neurotoxic, carcinogenic, etc. > > > > > > (but not as bad, it seems, life-ruining wise) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 --- In , SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@y...> wrote: > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit can potentially just spread the stuff around). Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA filters trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on the mold spores? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 A word of caution and one of encouragement on air purifiers. (Plus a related diatribe). Don't expect air purifiers to be the " magic bullet. " They do not remove the source of the exposure causing your reactions, therefore the exposure continues, just at a lower level. If you have a moldy house or someone smokes it won't remove the source. If it would then when I grew up on the farm we would never have had to remove the manure from the barn. Just put in an air purifier and ZAP! the manure, the odor and all the straw for bedding is gone! Wow! That would have saved me a lot of muscle-numbing effort on my chores. The truth is, they only remove part of what is in the air that actually goes through the machine. If it can't make the distance to be sucked in, then it won't be removed. However, if that is enough then that's all you need... Yes, they can definitely help and are often all that is needed to... What? Stop your reactions according to your experience. It seems easy to evaluate products and services according to whether or not our reactivity is decreased or even gone. So why so much difficulty accepting the fact up front, that if we are reacting then there is something wrong, we aren't hallucinating and we need to find the source and remove the source. Or remove ourself from the source. If that isn't possible because of legal, financial, family, illness, out-of-our-control or other reasons, then what can be done to make it at least a little better - understanding that the problem isn't stopped until the exposure is stopped. And then our body needs time - sometimes lots and lots of time - to heal. If someone is hitting me in the head and I buy a device that allows only 1 out of 10 punches to make contact, I've helped the situation but will still very likely suffer some sort of damage. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Spores get broken down into fragments, and the toxins sit on the spores, on the fragments, and exist independent of both - like, in your body. Carl's a much better source on the mechanics of this than I am, but the thing is that they're small enough to get past a HEPA filter. So there's a tradeoff between whether you could possibly trap enough of the spores for it to be worth stirring up the mess in the first place. Since you can't see the spores or the toxins, it's a guessing game as to which is the devil and which is the deep blue sea. And if you haven't resolved the source of the contamination, then what are you moving around with that fan? To my thinking, a filter only makes sense if you start out with a clean environment in the first place. Then you might have a chance of doing something useful with it. Bob <blue74730@...> wrote: --- In , SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@y...> wrote: > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit can potentially just spread the stuff around). Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA filters trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on the mold spores? Bob FAIR USE NOTICE: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Look into HARPA filters. Bet you haven't heard of them yet.... > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA filters > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on the > mold spores? > > Bob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 check out www.airistar.com I think this air purifier is a better choice of them from reading. RC > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA filters > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on the > mold spores? > > Bob > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 It just moves more air faster. Maybe better if you're trying to keep a clean space clean, but if you still can't stop moving all the bad stuff around, what's the point of moving more of it faster? Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@...> wrote: check out www.airistar.com I think this air purifier is a better choice of them from reading. RC > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA filters > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on the > mold spores? > > Bob > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I bought the Blue Air Purifier and change the filter every 6 months. It is almost $80 a filter, though, so not cheap, but it makes me feel better. I like the looks of it and it is also silent if you want it to be, although I turn it up at night. I also use a hepa vacuum cleaner, very expensive too. Then I almost forgot the de-humidifier, which I keep set at 55. All of this is in my new place, since I did bring some furniture from the old place, not much but some. Judi --- Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@...> wrote: > > I'm trying to decide betweent the IQ cleanroom > series or the IQ > healthpro plus, eithr the compact or bigger size. > The plus to the > compact one is the prefilter/gas filter are combo > where I have to > buy separate with the biggier IQ healthpro one. The > IQ cleanroom > filters last long, are more expensive but can last > 4.5years(HEPA) > and prefilter 1-2 years. Give me your opinions on > these air > purifiers. At least it has so called Free > Shipping..... > > Seems if I have a brain lesion and symptoms started > after being in > the mold hole house, that I must have a toxic mold > or something. > Just too coincidental of being OK before moving in > this house and by > year 2, neuro symptoms and progressed for 10 years > with smelling > nasties in my air system and seeing mold in > crawlspace. I'll never > really know tho. > > Rhonda > > > > > > > Actually, only around 2% of homes tested for mold > have > stachybotrys. > > You need to have really high humidity (~80%) for > stachy to start > > growing, its not a normal situation. > > > > Its higher (the percentage of moldy houses) for > the others.. But > not > > all molds are toxic, and there are big variations > in how toxic they > > are. > > > > If you have stachy or aspergilus/penicillium, the > chances are high > > that you have a seious problem. Chaetmonium, > Alternaria and a few > > others are also neurotoxic, carcinogenic, etc. > > > > (but not as bad, it seems, life-ruining wise) > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 When I was living in the mold, I did a lot of research on air purifiers myself, and then finally bought one. The industrial hygienist that I hired actually told me that the homes that she tested with the air purifiers had much lower mold spore counts than other homes she tested. She had no reason to tell me that information, as she wasn't selling any products. I think there are some worthless products out there, but there are also some good quality air purifiers. In my case, I feel it did help mitigate the damages while I had to live there (along with the dehumidifiers). My intention was to keep the mold more under control and remove the moisure source. I also had normal air tests after remediation and with the air purifiers and I also got 3 of the air sterilizers which I moved around the house. So, how did I get the nornal tests. Also, I always was told that hepa filters DO work in trapping mold, and was told by the same industrial hygienist to get hepa filters. So the news that they don't work against mold, is something I haven't heard before. Obviously, one also has to get rid of the moisture and the source of mold, as well as getting rid of contaminated materials. Judi --- SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@...> wrote: > It just moves more air faster. Maybe better if > you're trying to keep a clean space clean, but if > you still can't stop moving all the bad stuff > around, what's the point of moving more of it > faster? > > Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@...> wrote: > check out www.airistar.com I think this air > purifier is a better > choice of them from reading. RC > > > > > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, > the fan in the > unit > > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said > above? Do HEPA > filters > > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are > mycotoxins on > the > > mold spores? > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 The problem, quite frankly, is that some of the people asking the question are not doing any remediation at all at this point. None of these post-cleanup measures make it safe for reactive people to stay in a contaminated environment. The risk is that of ultimately making things even worse - if by no other means than through a mistaken belief that this is any kind of substitute for either getting rid of the mold or getting away from it altogether. There is NO substitute. And no, air tests are not at all definitve and the filters don't catch nearly everything. I got sick in an environment where all of this was done and more, and I have ample reason to believe it was all made much worse. If I knew then what I know about this now, I'd be a whole lot better off. The fact that an industrial hygienist was involved and signed off on it all was a complete boondoggle, and only served to mask (pardon the pun) the fact that there was serious risk involved and that my future health and well-bring was totally on the line. For me, there's no going back and I don't want to see that happen to anyone else. dottykalm <dottykalm@...> wrote: When I was living in the mold, I did a lot of research on air purifiers myself, and then finally bought one. The industrial hygienist that I hired actually told me that the homes that she tested with the air purifiers had much lower mold spore counts than other homes she tested. She had no reason to tell me that information, as she wasn't selling any products. I think there are some worthless products out there, but there are also some good quality air purifiers. In my case, I feel it did help mitigate the damages while I had to live there (along with the dehumidifiers). My intention was to keep the mold more under control and remove the moisure source. I also had normal air tests after remediation and with the air purifiers and I also got 3 of the air sterilizers which I moved around the house. So, how did I get the nornal tests. Also, I always was told that hepa filters DO work in trapping mold, and was told by the same industrial hygienist to get hepa filters. So the news that they don't work against mold, is something I haven't heard before. Obviously, one also has to get rid of the moisture and the source of mold, as well as getting rid of contaminated materials. Judi --- SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@...> wrote: > It just moves more air faster. Maybe better if > you're trying to keep a clean space clean, but if > you still can't stop moving all the bad stuff > around, what's the point of moving more of it > faster? > > Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@...> wrote: > check out www.airistar.com I think this air > purifier is a better > choice of them from reading. RC > > > > > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, > the fan in the > unit > > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said > above? Do HEPA > filters > > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are > mycotoxins on > the > > mold spores? > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Judi, A lot of what you were told is true - but not complete. Even the following isn't complete, but hopefully comprehensive. 1. HEPA is rated at 0.3 microns so mold spores and fragments (and other stuff) that are larger will be stopped. But anything smaller will go through. Also, not all the parts of the mold organism (think " tree " ) are the equivalent of seeds and leaves. The ones that are chemical - like pine odor - won't be stopped (actually, there is an exception to this but I don't want to make this more confusing). HEPAs are not useless but they are not the " cure all " either. However, if they work then they work. But they don't always work. You have to try it and see what happens. 2. HEPA will often reduce airborne levels of mold (unless there are other disturbances) but not what has settled to surfaces like floors, tables, furniture, furnace ducts, etc. So if your industrial hygienist took air samples she would most likely see a reduction. However, if she took surface samples, she most likely would NOT. And that's fine as long as people and pets don't disturb what's on the surface by doing silly things like walking or moving about in other ways, or the forced air starts up (after she samples, of course). This is a big debate among professionals with no resolution between air vs surface samples, when to take them, how many to take, and what does it all mean. Perhaps the answer is the same as for The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy question of Life, the Universe and Everything: 39. 3. If you are going to get an air purifier, get a HEPA. If you need chemical/odor removal also, get a HEPA with charcoal and/or potassium permanganate and/or zeolite to remove the chemcals/odors. 4. I don't know what the industrial hygienist (IH) meant by " normal levels " of mold. That is the gold standard that nobody in the world has established. Also, many on this group react to " normal levels " at least where they live. But if your situation was fixed, fantastic! You are done. 5. Industrial hygienists (IH) can be anybody. Even YOU can call yourself an IH. However, a Certified Industrial Hygienist (CIH) is a different matter. They are highly trained and must have a specified amount and type of training/experience before they are allowed to even take the exam. The exam is developed and administered independantly of the organization of CIHs. However, there is little to nothing in their training or on the exam about mold. And there is nothing about RESIDENTIAL. Why? Because they are INDUSTRIAL hygienists, not residential hygienists. Without additional training/experience from somewhere else they are not qualified to work in residential settings and are not allowed to do so as a CIH according to their code of ethics. If they do the work that should call themselves something else. Please notice that I didn't say they couldn't do the work. I said they couldn't do the work while representing themselves as a CIH. Same as a plumber performing heart surgery. The plumber is highly trained, certified and licensed - just not for heart surgery. But if he went to medical school, had training and was state licensed then he would ALSO be qualified to work on my heart. (But I'd still have to get to know him/her and trust before I'd submit). As of Jan 1 (yesterday) there is the start of an independent certification program for the NON-INDUSTRIAL environment. Those that have taken the CIE exam by IAQA and the equivalent by AmIAQ who also meet other qualifications, can be granted the independant certification of CIEC - Certified Indoor Environmental Consultant. CIH will be able to take that training and exam to be so qualified, just like CIECs can do the CIH if they are otherwise qualified. Give them a few months to get the first applications evaluated. 5. You are exactly right about stopping the water, removing the food source, and removing the mold as the primary action. The HEPA can then be very appropriate and often not needed. HEPA filtration, spraying chemicals whether " safe " or otherwise, ozone, photocatalytic- superoxygenation-expialidocious and other " magic bullets " should never be used IN PLACE of removal. Yes, they are cheaper up front, but that is like buying a guard kitten to keep the mountain lions away when you should be living in a habitat where people thrive and pestilence can't. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > When I was living in the mold, I did a lot of researc > on air purifiers myself, and then finally bought one. > The industrial hygienist that I hired actually told me > that the homes that she tested with the air purifiers > had much lower mold spore counts than other homes she > tested. She had no reason to tell me that > information, as she wasn't selling any products. I > think there are some worthless products out there, but > there are also some good quality air purifiers. In my > case, I feel it did help mitigate the damages while I > had to live there (along with the dehumidifiers). My > intention was to keep the mold more under control and > remove the moisure source. I also had normal air > tests after remediation and with the air purifiers and > I also got 3 of the air sterilizers which I moved > around the house. So, how did I get the nornal tests. > Also, I always was told that hepa filters DO work in > trapping mold, and was told by the same industrial > hygienist to get hepa filters. So the news that they > don't work against mold, is something I haven't heard > before. Obviously, one also has to get rid of the > moisture and the source of mold, as well as getting > rid of contaminated materials. Judi > > --- SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@...> wrote: > > > It just moves more air faster. Maybe better if > > you're trying to keep a clean space clean, but if > > you still can't stop moving all the bad stuff > > around, what's the point of moving more of it > > faster? > > > > Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@...> wrote: > > check out www.airistar.com I think this air > > purifier is a better > > choice of them from reading. RC > > > > > > > > > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, > > the fan in the > > unit > > > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > > > > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said > > above? Do HEPA > > filters > > > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are > > mycotoxins on > > the > > > mold spores? > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Carl, Thanks for the great explanation of all the testing, etc. I think I mentioned before that I was never sure of what I was doing when I lived in the mold condo. I was just " winging it. " The industrial hygienist had a Ph.D., but it does make sense what you are saying about the " residential " training. Also, I don't think the terminology she used was " normal " levels of mold, it was just mentioned that it was not as excessive as it had been. So, do you recommend air testing or tape samples, or both? Judi --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > Judi, > > A lot of what you were told is true - but not > complete. Even the > following isn't complete, but hopefully > comprehensive. > > 1. HEPA is rated at 0.3 microns so mold spores and > fragments (and > other stuff) that are larger will be stopped. But > anything smaller > will go through. Also, not all the parts of the mold > organism (think > " tree " ) are the equivalent of seeds and leaves. The > ones that are > chemical - like pine odor - won't be stopped > (actually, there is an > exception to this but I don't want to make this more > confusing). > HEPAs are not useless but they are not the " cure > all " either. > However, if they work then they work. But they don't > always work. You > have to try it and see what happens. > > 2. HEPA will often reduce airborne levels of mold > (unless there are > other disturbances) but not what has settled to > surfaces like floors, > tables, furniture, furnace ducts, etc. So if your > industrial > hygienist took air samples she would most likely see > a reduction. > However, if she took surface samples, she most > likely would NOT. And > that's fine as long as people and pets don't disturb > what's on the > surface by doing silly things like walking or moving > about in other > ways, or the forced air starts up (after she > samples, of course). > This is a big debate among professionals with no > resolution between > air vs surface samples, when to take them, how many > to take, and what > does it all mean. Perhaps the answer is the same as > for The > Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy question of Life, > the Universe and > Everything: 39. > > 3. If you are going to get an air purifier, get a > HEPA. If you need > chemical/odor removal also, get a HEPA with charcoal > and/or potassium > permanganate and/or zeolite to remove the > chemcals/odors. > > 4. I don't know what the industrial hygienist (IH) > meant by " normal > levels " of mold. That is the gold standard that > nobody in the world > has established. Also, many on this group react to > " normal levels " at > least where they live. But if your situation was > fixed, fantastic! > You are done. > > 5. Industrial hygienists (IH) can be anybody. Even > YOU can call > yourself an IH. However, a Certified Industrial > Hygienist (CIH) is a > different matter. > > They are highly trained and must have a > specified amount and type of > training/experience before they are allowed to > even take the exam. > The exam is developed and administered > independantly of the > organization of CIHs. > > However, there is little to nothing in their > training or on the exam > about mold. And there is nothing about > RESIDENTIAL. Why? Because > they are INDUSTRIAL hygienists, not > residential hygienists. Without > additional training/experience from somewhere > else they are not > qualified to work in residential settings and > are not allowed to do > so as a CIH according to their code of ethics. > If they do the work > that should call themselves something else. > > Please notice that I didn't say they couldn't > do the work. I said > they couldn't do the work while representing > themselves as a CIH. > Same as a plumber performing heart surgery. The > plumber is highly > trained, certified and licensed - just not for > heart surgery. But if > he went to medical school, had training and was > state licensed then > he would ALSO be qualified to work on my heart. > (But I'd still have > to get to know him/her and trust before I'd > submit). > > As of Jan 1 (yesterday) there is the start of > an independent > certification program for the NON-INDUSTRIAL > environment. Those that > have taken the CIE exam by IAQA and the > equivalent by AmIAQ who also > meet other qualifications, can be granted the > independant > certification of CIEC - Certified Indoor > Environmental Consultant. > CIH will be able to take that training and exam > to be so qualified, > just like CIECs can do the CIH if they are > otherwise qualified. Give > them a few months to get the first applications > evaluated. > > 5. You are exactly right about stopping the water, > removing the food > source, and removing the mold as the primary action. > The HEPA can > then be very appropriate and often not needed. HEPA > filtration, > spraying chemicals whether " safe " or otherwise, > ozone, photocatalytic- > superoxygenation-expialidocious and other " magic > bullets " should > never be used IN PLACE of removal. Yes, they are > cheaper up front, > but that is like buying a guard kitten to keep the > mountain lions > away when you should be living in a habitat where > people thrive and > pestilence can't. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > > When I was living in the mold, I did a lot of > researc > > on air purifiers myself, and then finally bought > one. > > The industrial hygienist that I hired actually > told me > > that the homes that she tested with the air > purifiers > > had much lower mold spore counts than other homes > she > > tested. She had no reason to tell me that > > information, as she wasn't selling any products. > I > > think there are some worthless products out there, > but > > there are also some good quality air purifiers. > In my > > case, I feel it did help mitigate the damages > while I > > had to live there (along with the dehumidifiers). > My > > intention was to keep the mold more under control > and > > remove the moisure source. I also had normal > air > > tests after remediation and with the air purifiers > and > > I also got 3 of the air sterilizers which I moved > > around the house. So, how did I get the nornal > tests. > > Also, I always was told that hepa filters DO work > in > > trapping mold, and was told by the same industrial > > hygienist to get hepa filters. So the news that > they > > don't work against mold, is something I haven't > heard > > before. Obviously, one also has to get rid of the > > moisture and the source of mold, as well as > getting > > rid of contaminated materials. Judi > > > > --- SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@...> wrote: > > > > > It just moves more air faster. Maybe better if > > > you're trying to keep a clean space clean, but > if > > > you still can't stop moving all the bad stuff > > > around, what's the point of moving more of it > > > faster? > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand./cybergivingweek2005/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 What do you know about HARPA filters. www.airistar.com > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA filters > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on the > mold spores? > > Bob > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 - I forgot I already put aristar on here. Sorry. AC man said spores from inside going thru return will just contaiminate anything that is cleaned up. A moldremediator said with 12 years of wet dirt, will recontaminte eventually. AC guy said whole AC has to be replaced b/c the whole under the house unit is contaminated, not just the plenum. Duh, why didn't I think of that. Seems I'm just damned all the way and I seriously doubt I can sell without at least waterproofing which even if I do now, will stay wet under my house probably the rest of my life. The mold clean up uses modec. Anyone know about that. Strange they all use something different too. This one doesn't do the whole crawl space cover which I think I need with the waterproofing/sump pumps. I feel like I'm going insane and do not want to spend a fortune and the Mold comes back. Hiring a industriral hygenist and seems most of the mold clean up people use the hygenist protocol for clean up and is there a legal thing that you have to get the hygenist to get a mold clean up person? I would like to identify what all I have tho. I need a drink, better yet, hook me up to an IV of wine! This is horrible. I feel helpless too but still have you. And from the paperwork from 12 years ago, I hired an inspector, didn't remember and he is the stupid ass that told the mortgage company and builder to do what they did so is there any possiblity that I could sue?? with a damn inspector approving what they did. I knew what they did wasn't enough but was worn out bitching and now I'm paying and legally that might have been all they had to do. I'm going INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!! Rhonda -- In , SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@y...> wrote: > > It just moves more air faster. Maybe better if you're trying to keep a clean space clean, but if you still can't stop moving all the bad stuff around, what's the point of moving more of it faster? > > Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@h...> wrote: > check out www.airistar.com I think this air purifier is a better > choice of them from reading. RC > > > > > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the > unit > > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA > filters > > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on > the > > mold spores? > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Only that it claims to be a HEPA filter, only built to move more air faster. Rhonda <rhondaleokitty@...> wrote: What do you know about HARPA filters. www.airistar.com > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan in the unit > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA filters > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are mycotoxins on the > mold spores? > > Bob > > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Marketing. Their HAPA media is used in their HEXAFLOW process. The combination of the 6 stages is supposed to be as effective as HEPA without restricting the airflow and requiring bigger motors. They don't give specifics other than a couple of comparisons and there is no independant testing. It could be great. At least it doesn't use ozone. Anybody actually use one? How does the cost compare to HEPA? Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > What do you know about HARPA filters. www.airistar.com > > > > > > HEPA filters don't remove mycotoxins (in fact, the fan > in the unit > can potentially just spread the stuff around). > > > Serena, would you please expand on what you said above? Do HEPA > filters > trap mold spores on the outside of the filter? Are > mycotoxins on the > mold spores? > > Bob > > > > > > > > FAIR USE > NOTICE: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Rhonda, Are you in Texas? > back. Hiring a industriral hygenist and seems most of the mold clean > up people use the hygenist protocol for clean up and is there a legal > thing that you have to get the hygenist to get a mold clean up person? They have a strict law about who inspects and who remediates and it can't be the same person. A hygienist or whomever, whether industrial or Certified, must be licensed by the state. The law also stipulates how to test at the end. I don't agree with it, but in Texas it is the law. Go to: http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/mold_remed.shtml Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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