Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis question

[Guest guest]

Oxidative stress induces complex alterations of membrane proteins

in red blood cells (RBCs) eventually leading to haemolysis. To study changes

of membrane ion permeability induced by oxidative stress, whole-cell

patch-clamp recordings and haemolysis experiments are performed in control

and oxidised human RBCs The permeability properties of the red blood cell

(RBC) membrane govern its acid-base status

The Na+- and Ca2+-permeable conductance might be involved in

haemolytic diseases induced by elevated oxidative stress, such as

glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency..Oxidation induces a

Cl--dependent cation conductance in human red blood cell (RBC).

Oxidation stress induces haemolysis in NaCl-bathed

human RBCs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2290198/

ANTI-INFLAMMATORY AND ANTI-ULCEROGENIC EFFECT OF ETHANOL

EXTRACT OF COCONUT (COCOS NUCIFERA)

The coconut extract showed a dose dependent significant

reduction in the haemolysis of the red cells induced by distilled water

(Table 3). This study suggests that the extract could be harmful at high

doses.

http://www.ajfand.net/Issue40/PDFs/Anosike4255.pdf

The possibility of dose-related side-effects should be

considered when taking coconut oil. The concept that one teaspoonful is

good but one tablespoonful is better has to be totally revised.as in the

case of

hypervitaminosis.

Hypervitaminosis A

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000350.htm

With regards

Lew

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

>

> Most of the research used not VCO but " MCT oil " , which had all the lauric

> acid and longer chains removed; it is comprised almost entirely of caprylic

> and capric acids. Research that specified " coconut oil " actually employed

> coconut oil.

>

> MCT oil figures FYI:

> http://www.kicgroup.com/c8c10tg.htm

>

> The following study shows lauric acid breaks down (lyses) red blood cell

> walls in normal blood salt (normotonic) conditions for blood of humans and

> two other animals. Hemolysis may be the reason some people have symptoms

> from coconut oil that are often attributed to the Herxheimer/Jarish effect

> (AKA healing response); coocnut oil could be breaking down some of your red

> blood cells.

>

> <

>

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=h009675m113g2463 & size=larges\

t

> >

>

> Another example of how unwise it can be to " chase the herx " . You can break

> blood cells with certain frequencies too, and I think that was proposed on

> one of our groups several years ago by an electrical engineer who is into

> Rife equipment.

>

> Moving on, knowing that momma's milk ain't wrong, a cow's milk fat is only

> 2.2%-2.8% lauric acid, human milk fat is 5.5% lauric acid, and coconut oil

> contains a rather excessive 51%-53% lauric acid.

>

> I had been seeking to increase my MCT oil intake without increasing my

> lauric acid intake. Given the seriousness of hemolysis, The MCT oil is

> looking better all the time.

>

> Maybe Bruce Fife has an answer to the questions raised by this research.

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

>

>

> >

> > VCO will control your body weight.

> >

> > VCO content of high lauric acid ( until 53%), a saturated fat

> > enchained ( with its carbon 12) which is ordinary to be referred as

> > medium chain fatty acid alias MCFA.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan!

Do you have the rest of the pages of this report - study on lauric acid

hemolysis of RBC? Could you kindly attach as well?

The content of the attached 1st page does not give clarification why the method

used involved dissolving the fatty acid in NaOH, and how the effect of this

dissolution is factored into the analysis of results.

Capric, capryllic, caproic and lauric acids are easily saponified by NaOH and

forms sodium soaps (eg sodium laurate). Soap with high content of sodium laurate

has high cleansing effect. I am wondering if what interacted with RBC in the

study is no longer the fatty acids but their corresponding soaps.

Tony Geniston

> >

> > VCO will control your body weight.

> >

> > VCO content of high lauric acid ( until 53%), a saturated fat

> > enchained ( with its carbon 12) which is ordinary to be referred as

> > medium chain fatty acid alias MCFA.

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't buy the paper, no, but I can say the research proposed to mimic blood

conditions including a low concentration of a potentially oxidative molecule

that normally wouldn't oxidize the red blood cells or the lauric acid. Here's

another abstract that shows hemolysis by lauric acid (in a test tube study):

><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3179347>

....saying,

" All fatty acids, except for lauric acid, have a stabilizing effect on lipid

peroxidation "

><http://www.curehunter.com/public/keywordSummaryC030358.do>

....saying,

" (E) lauric acid protects up to 30 degrees C and becomes hemolytic only above

this temperature; "

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > VCO will control your body weight.

> > >

> > > VCO content of high lauric acid ( until 53%), a saturated fat

> > > enchained ( with its carbon 12) which is ordinary to be referred as

> > > medium chain fatty acid alias MCFA.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This sounds like another reason to consider MCT Oil. I always prefer foods as

close to nature as possible, however, it appears that MCT is a " best of " product

of coconut oil w/o any of the inconveniences.

In evaluating the potential of MCT oil, I wonder what the processing may take

away if anything. Sometimes isolating elements and fractions can damage some of

the nutrients.

> > > >

> > > > VCO will control your body weight.

> > > >

> > > > VCO content of high lauric acid ( until 53%), a saturated fat

> > > > enchained ( with its carbon 12) which is ordinary to be referred as

> > > > medium chain fatty acid alias MCFA.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

Not sure what you're trying to prove here - that VCO is dangerous? The studies

you cite seem to use lauric acid alone, not virgin coconut oil which seems to

have opposite effects to your cited research. Here are a few studies using VCO:

Effect of fish oil and coconut oil on antioxidant defence system and lipid

peroxidation in rat liver.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2071030

Abstract

Diets high in fish oil containing polyunsaturated fatty acids of the n-3 family,

have been suggested to decrease the risk of cardiovascular disease. However

these lipids are highly susceptible to oxidative deterioration. In order to

investigate the influence of n-3 fatty acids on oxidative status, the effect of

feeding rats with fish oil or coconut oil diets was studied by measuring

different parameters related to an oxidative free radical challenge. Synthetic

diets containing 15% (w/v) fish oil or coconut oil were used to feed growing

rats for 4 weeks. As compared to control diet, the fish oil containing diet

produced a significant decrease of cholesterol and triglyceride concentration in

serum, however there was a significant increase in lipid peroxidation products.

In addition, in fish oil fed animals, there was also a decrease in vitamin E and

A concentration. Furthermore, the rate of lipid peroxidation in isolated

microsomes was three fold higher in rats fed fish oil as compared to rats with

coconut oil diet.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/27/10/1130.short

Sudden death of undetermined cause occurred in 3 monkeys fed the safflower oil

without vitamin E diet. After approximately 1 year, deficient cebus monkeys

consuming safflower oil developed a progressive, macrocytic, hemolytic anemia. A

similar, milder anemia was produced in the cynomolgus after 2 years and was

accompanied in late stages with muscular weakness. Anemia did not occur with the

coconut oil diet.

Beneficial effects of virgin coconut oil on lipid parameters and in vitro LDL

oxidation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15329324

CONCLUSION: The results demonstrated the potential beneficiary effect of virgin

coconut oil in lowering lipid levels in serum and tissues and LDL oxidation by

physiological oxidants. This property of VCO may be attributed to the

biologically active polyphenol components present in the oil.

Dee

>

> I didn't buy the paper, no, but I can say the research proposed to mimic blood

conditions including a low concentration of a potentially oxidative molecule

that normally wouldn't oxidize the red blood cells or the lauric acid. Here's

another abstract that shows hemolysis by lauric acid (in a test tube study):

<snip>

[Guest guest]

I am wondering what methodology is used in those studies. I am starting to feel

published studies missing basic chemistry by light years.

Tony Geniston

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 12:22:57 AM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

I didn't buy the paper, no, but I can say the research proposed to mimic blood

conditions including a low concentration of a potentially oxidative molecule

that normally wouldn't oxidize the red blood cells or the lauric acid. Here's

another abstract that shows hemolysis by lauric acid (in a test tube study):

><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3179347>

....saying,

" All fatty acids, except for lauric acid, have a stabilizing effect on lipid

peroxidation "

><http://www.curehunter.com/public/keywordSummaryC030358.do>

....saying,

" (E) lauric acid protects up to 30 degrees C and becomes hemolytic only above

this temperature; "

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > VCO will control your body weight.

> > >

> > > VCO content of high lauric acid ( until 53%), a saturated fat

> > > enchained ( with its carbon 12) which is ordinary to be referred as

> > > medium chain fatty acid alias MCFA.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

How does dissolving lauric acid in NaOH becomes a way to mimic blood conditions?

Do fatty acids exist in blood in saponified condition (as soaps)?

Tony

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 12:22:57 AM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

I didn't buy the paper, no, but I can say the research proposed to mimic blood

conditions including a low concentration of a potentially oxidative molecule

that normally wouldn't oxidize the red blood cells or the lauric acid. Here's

another abstract that shows hemolysis by lauric acid (in a test tube study):

><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3179347>

....saying,

" All fatty acids, except for lauric acid, have a stabilizing effect on lipid

peroxidation "

><http://www.curehunter.com/public/keywordSummaryC030358.do>

....saying,

" (E) lauric acid protects up to 30 degrees C and becomes hemolytic only above

this temperature; "

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > VCO will control your body weight.

> > >

> > > VCO content of high lauric acid ( until 53%), a saturated fat

> > > enchained ( with its carbon 12) which is ordinary to be referred as

> > > medium chain fatty acid alias MCFA.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dee, " what I'm trying to prove " has already been proven in the research; here's

a short summary:

Lauric acid causes some red blood cell hemolysis. Actually it breaks other cell

walls in addition to red blood cell walls by interfering with the second

membrane layer.

Hemolysis of red blood cells releases iron.

Iron is one of the body's most potent free radical generators through generation

of the hydroxyl ion.

One can avoid substantial hydroxyl damage caused by hemolysis by binding the

iron that has been released, with glutathione precursors and ferritin.

The research you just posted is on the " lipid peroxidation " of polyunsaturated

fats, not about red blood cell hemolysis with lauric acid, a saturated fat.

all good,

Duncan

[Guest guest]

>snip<

> The research you just posted is on the " lipid peroxidation " of polyunsaturated

fats, not about red blood cell hemolysis with lauric acid, a saturated fat.

Duncan,

The research I posted was on the effect of VCO versus polyunsaturated fats or

fish oil on both lipid peroxidation and hemolysis (hemolytic anemia). Here is

the one that deals with hemolysis:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/27/10/1130.short

Sudden death of undetermined cause occurred in 3 monkeys fed the safflower oil

without vitamin E diet. After approximately 1 year, deficient cebus monkeys

consuming safflower oil developed a progressive, macrocytic, hemolytic anemia. A

similar, milder anemia was produced in the cynomolgus after 2 years and was

accompanied in late stages with muscular weakness. ANEMIA DID NOT OCCUR WITH THE

COCONUT OIL DIET.

The research you posted dealt only with lauric acid, one component only of VCO -

plus the research was test tube only. I tend to give more weight to research

that involves the effect of the whole product (VCO) on either animals or people

as one is dealing with real and complex physiological processes that cannot be

duplicated in vivo.

Dee

Dee

[Guest guest]

Saponification occurs at pH between around 8 and 13, not 7.4, the pH of blood.

NaOH is used to maintain the solution at blood pH.

all good,

Duncan

>

> How does dissolving lauric acid in NaOH becomes a way to mimic blood

conditions?

> Do fatty acids exist in blood in saponified condition (as soaps)?

>

> Tony

>

>

[Guest guest]

The difference Dee is easy to see under low-power magnification.

While anemia is seen as perhaps 30% fewer red blood cells than normal under low

power magnification, hemolysis unless it caused the same 30% of red blood cell

death will not be visible, and a clinical diagnosis of anemia would not be made.

So the visual reading has nothing to do with what's occurring in hemolysis; to

get a reading on red blood cell damage from lauric acid a different experiment

is necessary.

And getting a reading on the amount of hydroxyl damage requires another

experiment again, one that measures oxidative stress. Hydroxyl continues until

it is quenched, at even low red blood cell cell death rates, as part of the

oxidative stress.

Gooogling iron oxidative stress will put the released iron into perspective. ANY

red blood cell death beyond than normal recycling is unnecessary and promotes

oxidative stress.

In the case of bio-oxidative therapy, which also promotes a huge but brief burst

of oxidative stress, the burst triggers a response of a burst of antioxidant

production, which is healing in itself, the " other half " of bio-oxidative

therapy.

I propose to use the other half of bio-oxidative therapy to also mitigate high

lauric acid dosing. Undenatured whey, selenium and ferritin, the ligand that

grabs free iron that's catalysing formation of the hydroxyl ions, which may be

adequate in the whey and may not.

all good,

Duncan

>

> >snip<

> > The research you just posted is on the " lipid peroxidation " of

polyunsaturated fats, not about red blood cell hemolysis with lauric acid, a

saturated fat.

>

> Duncan,

>

> The research I posted was on the effect of VCO versus polyunsaturated fats or

fish oil on both lipid peroxidation and hemolysis (hemolytic anemia). Here is

the one that deals with hemolysis:

>

> http://www.ajcn.org/content/27/10/1130.short

> Sudden death of undetermined cause occurred in 3 monkeys fed the safflower oil

> without vitamin E diet. After approximately 1 year, deficient cebus monkeys

> consuming safflower oil developed a progressive, macrocytic, hemolytic anemia.

A

> similar, milder anemia was produced in the cynomolgus after 2 years and was

> accompanied in late stages with muscular weakness. ANEMIA DID NOT OCCUR WITH

THE COCONUT OIL DIET.

>

> The research you posted dealt only with lauric acid, one component only of VCO

- plus the research was test tube only. I tend to give more weight to research

that involves the effect of the whole product (VCO) on either animals or people

as one is dealing with real and complex physiological processes that cannot be

duplicated in vivo.

>

> Dee

>

> Dee

>

[Guest guest]

So are you saying that the monkey on VCO most probably was anemic based on an in

vivo experiment using lauric acid alone - and despite the conclusions of the

researchers? As you may know, RBC (red blood cell count) is not the only blood

component analyzed when making a diagnosis of anemia. There is also HCT, HGB,

MCH, MCV, MCHC, and Ferritin. I would think the researches would have included

those in their analysis as well (as is done in humans) - as well as a condition

of weakness and tiredness exhibited by those with anemia.

So, Duncan, have you come across any studies attributing anemia to the use of

VCO?

Dee

> >

> > >snip<

> > > The research you just posted is on the " lipid peroxidation " of

polyunsaturated fats, not about red blood cell hemolysis with lauric acid, a

saturated fat.

> >

> > Duncan,

> >

> > The research I posted was on the effect of VCO versus polyunsaturated fats

or fish oil on both lipid peroxidation and hemolysis (hemolytic anemia). Here is

the one that deals with hemolysis:

> >

> > http://www.ajcn.org/content/27/10/1130.short

> > Sudden death of undetermined cause occurred in 3 monkeys fed the safflower

oil

> > without vitamin E diet. After approximately 1 year, deficient cebus monkeys

> > consuming safflower oil developed a progressive, macrocytic, hemolytic

anemia. A

> > similar, milder anemia was produced in the cynomolgus after 2 years and was

> > accompanied in late stages with muscular weakness. ANEMIA DID NOT OCCUR WITH

THE COCONUT OIL DIET.

> >

> > The research you posted dealt only with lauric acid, one component only of

VCO - plus the research was test tube only. I tend to give more weight to

research that involves the effect of the whole product (VCO) on either animals

or people as one is dealing with real and complex physiological processes that

cannot be duplicated in vivo.

> >

> > Dee

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dee, on one hand research has proven lauric acid lyses red blood cells and other

cell types, that hemolysis produces free iron and also large amounts of

oxidative stress, particularly of the most oxidative free radical, the hydroxyl

radical.

Hemolysis causes free radical damage that doesn't threaten one's life and would

mainly not be visible though a microscopic examination of the blood.

On the other hand, a diagnosis of anemia doesn't rely on measuring hemolysis or

other causes of reactive oxygen species, although the ferritin level could tell

us something about the body's ability to reduce free iron.

I haven't seen research that shows anemia can be caused by eating VCO. Perhaps

the LD50 experiements on lauric acid would show anemia was ultimately the cause

of death; here's a search on the lethal dose of lauric acid:

http://www.google.com/search?client=aff-cs-worldbrowser & forid=1 & ie=utf-8 & oe=UTF-\

8 & q=ld50+lauric

You might think you're in the clear dosewise as long as you don't cause anemia,

but that's not so; the hemolysis and oxidative stress picture can be very

serious on its own without inducing outright anemia.

I would limit my lauric acid intake to 9 grams daily, preferably in divided

doses. You'd get about that in a rounded TBSP of VCO. People who take 3-4 TBSP

in a sitting will endure some hemolysis and resulting oxidative stress in

addition to killing some other cells and some enveloped bacteria and viruses.

One can mitigate some of that cell death and oxidation with undenatured whey and

selenium, and also balance their fatty acid intake to include less lauric acid

as Alobar and I are doing. Also, people can mix MCT oil, which contains no

lauric acid and higher amounts of the " healthiest " fraction of VCO, into both

VCO and butter.

all good,

Duncan

>

> So are you saying that the monkey on VCO most probably was anemic based on an

in vivo experiment using lauric acid alone - and despite the conclusions of the

researchers? As you may know, RBC (red blood cell count) is not the only blood

component analyzed when making a diagnosis of anemia. There is also HCT, HGB,

MCH, MCV, MCHC, and Ferritin. I would think the researches would have included

those in their analysis as well (as is done in humans) - as well as a condition

of weakness and tiredness exhibited by those with anemia.

>

> So, Duncan, have you come across any studies attributing anemia to the use of

VCO?

>

> Dee

>

[Guest guest]

The study did not use laurin the fat, they used lauric the fatty acid. Acids and

bases readily undergo neutralization reaction at practically all pH conditions.

pH 7.4 is cozy for this chemical reaction. It seems this is the very basic

point missed in the methodology of the study.

Tony

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Tue, March 29, 2011 12:41:12 AM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

Saponification occurs at pH between around 8 and 13, not 7.4, the pH of blood.

NaOH is used to maintain the solution at blood pH.

all good,

Duncan

>

> How does dissolving lauric acid in NaOH becomes a way to mimic blood

>conditions?

>

> Do fatty acids exist in blood in saponified condition (as soaps)?

>

> Tony

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shouldnt the study be done instead on monolaurin? But why on the effects lauric

acid when our digestive system breaks it down into monolaurin? The study is

irrelevant.

Rico

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 11:58:09 PM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

 

Dee, " what I'm trying to prove " has already been proven in the research; here's

a short summary:

Lauric acid causes some red blood cell hemolysis. Actually it breaks other cell

walls in addition to red blood cell walls by interfering with the second

membrane layer.

Hemolysis of red blood cells releases iron.

Iron is one of the body's most potent free radical generators through generation

of the hydroxyl ion.

One can avoid substantial hydroxyl damage caused by hemolysis by binding the

iron that has been released, with glutathione precursors and ferritin.

The research you just posted is on the " lipid peroxidation " of polyunsaturated

fats, not about red blood cell hemolysis with lauric acid, a saturated fat.

all good,

Duncan

[Guest guest]

Thank you Rico and Tony. I knew there was a screw loose in there somewhere.

After all, if coconut oil is so potentially " dangerous " , wouldn't all those

tropical folks who have been using coconut oil as their primary source of fat

for generations have long ago become extinct? I think it's called survival of

the fittest :-)

Best Wishes,

Dee

>

> Shouldnt the study be done instead on monolaurin? But why on the effects

lauric

> acid when our digestive system breaks it down into monolaurin? The study is

> irrelevant.

>

> Rico

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

> Coconut Oil

> Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 11:58:09 PM

> Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

> question

>

>  

> Dee, " what I'm trying to prove " has already been proven in the research;

here's

> a short summary:

>

>

> Lauric acid causes some red blood cell hemolysis. Actually it breaks other

cell

> walls in addition to red blood cell walls by interfering with the second

> membrane layer.

>

> Hemolysis of red blood cells releases iron.

>

> Iron is one of the body's most potent free radical generators through

generation

> of the hydroxyl ion.

>

> One can avoid substantial hydroxyl damage caused by hemolysis by binding the

> iron that has been released, with glutathione precursors and ferritin.

>

>

> The research you just posted is on the " lipid peroxidation " of polyunsaturated

> fats, not about red blood cell hemolysis with lauric acid, a saturated fat.

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There seems to be a lot of attacks aimed at saturated fats , coconut oil and so

on. This article has a look at one such study.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/532-saturated-fat-attack?qh=YTo3OntpO\

jA7czo3OiJjb2NvbnV0IjtpOjE7czo4OiJjb2NvbnV0cyI7aToyO3M6Mzoib2lsIjtpOjM7czo0OiJva\

WxzIjtpOjQ7czo2OiJvaWxpbmciO2k6NTtzOjU6Im9pbGVkIjtpOjY7czoxMToiY29jb251dCBvaWwiO\

30%3D

The last paragraph of this article is food for thought.

> >

> > Shouldnt the study be done instead on monolaurin? But why on the effects

lauric

> > acid when our digestive system breaks it down into monolaurin? The study is

> > irrelevant.

> >

> > Rico

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@>

> > Coconut Oil

> > Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 11:58:09 PM

> > Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

> > question

> >

> >  

> > Dee, " what I'm trying to prove " has already been proven in the research;

here's

> > a short summary:

> >

> >

> > Lauric acid causes some red blood cell hemolysis. Actually it breaks other

cell

> > walls in addition to red blood cell walls by interfering with the second

> > membrane layer.

> >

> > Hemolysis of red blood cells releases iron.

> >

> > Iron is one of the body's most potent free radical generators through

generation

> > of the hydroxyl ion.

> >

> > One can avoid substantial hydroxyl damage caused by hemolysis by binding the

> > iron that has been released, with glutathione precursors and ferritin.

> >

> >

> > The research you just posted is on the " lipid peroxidation " of

polyunsaturated

> > fats, not about red blood cell hemolysis with lauric acid, a saturated fat.

> >

> > all good,

> >

> > Duncan

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Lauric acid, the component that comprises 51% or so of coconut oil, was used in

the hemolysis experiment.

Laurin, actually monolaurin, is a product of the body or the lab, using the

lauric acid as the base.

Lauric acid does not undergo neutralization in water because it and monolaurin

are both insoluble in water.

all good,

Duncan

> >

> > How does dissolving lauric acid in NaOH becomes a way to mimic blood

> >conditions?

> >

> > Do fatty acids exist in blood in saponified condition (as soaps)?

> >

> > Tony

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's an excellent article . Not sure if this is the paragraph you're

referring to but I find it most relevant to this thread and should, hopefully,

put the " RBC hemolysis question " to rest:

" . . . . the functioning of an artery within a living human is much more

complex than the functioning of a mass of cells in a petri dish upon which a

researcher has dropped solutions of isolated chemicals with a pipette. The

ultimate test to teach us which oils to eat is which oils are consumed by the

people who live the longest, are the healthiest, and have the best quality of

life. "

In addition to coconut oil I'm sure that would also include olive oil as well as

butter from grass-fed cows.

All the Best,

Dee

>

> There seems to be a lot of attacks aimed at saturated fats , coconut oil and

so on. This article has a look at one such study.

>

>

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/532-saturated-fat-attack?qh=YTo3OntpO\

jA7czo3OiJjb2NvbnV0IjtpOjE7czo4OiJjb2NvbnV0cyI7aToyO3M6Mzoib2lsIjtpOjM7czo0OiJva\

WxzIjtpOjQ7czo2OiJvaWxpbmciO2k6NTtzOjU6Im9pbGVkIjtpOjY7czoxMToiY29jb251dCBvaWwiO\

30%3D

>

> The last paragraph of this article is food for thought.

>

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" My primary concern is the statement that lauric acid is converted into

monolaurin. This is not true. Lauric acid cannot be broken down or converted

into monolaurin. This inaccurate statement is often found on many websites. " ---

Bruce Fife.

So, the fellow whose coconut oil books people study contradicts your statement.

><Coconut Oil/message/32139>

The study remains relevant.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Shouldnt the study be done instead on monolaurin? But why on the effects

lauric

> acid when our digestive system breaks it down into monolaurin? The study is

> irrelevant.

>

> Rico

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

There is such a thing as too much ... My take is that if we dig enough we will

find something wrong about almost EVERYTHING ...  So I will calmly continue my

regular intake on VCO which seems to have helped my health quite a bit along

with my butter, my Vitamin D3, My Yogurt, my Kombucha, My undenatured whey

shakes with Stabilized bran , my MSM, my raw foods and my regular exercise ...

If something bad really happens I will deal with it ...

I must also say that I am not always in favor of a non systemic approach in

which one particular molecule or substance effect is isolated and analyzed

without the other substances or compounds  that may modulate its effects ... or

act in parallel with other body functions ... There is a case to supplement but

also to eat whole foods ... VCO seems to do a lot of good .. Too much of it as

anything will do some bad ...

In the way of so much research and trying to bring everything to just ONE

compound lay madness .. Moderation in everything is key to a balanced and

healthy life

Frantz

From: <r_long@...>

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

Coconut Oil

Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 11:24 AM

 

There seems to be a lot of attacks aimed at saturated fats , coconut oil

and so on. This article has a look at one such study.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/532-saturated-fat-attack?qh=YTo3OntpO\

jA7czo3OiJjb2NvbnV0IjtpOjE7czo4OiJjb2NvbnV0cyI7aToyO3M6Mzoib2lsIjtpOjM7czo0OiJva\

WxzIjtpOjQ7czo2OiJvaWxpbmciO2k6NTtzOjU6Im9pbGVkIjtpOjY7czoxMToiY29jb251dCBvaWwiO\

30%3D

The last paragraph of this article is food for thought.

> >

> > Shouldnt the study be done instead on monolaurin? But why on the effects

lauric

> > acid when our digestive system breaks it down into monolaurin? The study is

> > irrelevant.

> >

> > Rico

[Guest guest]

Dee,

I avoid glib comments myself, particularly when careful experimentation says

otherwise, including naming loose iron in the system as very damaging and

connected with about a dozen oxidative conditions and most of the degenerative

issues, particularly in the elderly.

Subsistence survival even on high doses of lauric acid can easily be explained.

Even though there is hemolysis, red blood cells are quickly replaced and the

high antioxidant values and low inflammation otherwise in the primitives' diet

took care of the bulk of the free radical damage. But, this simple approach

would be dissimilar to that most North American adults will encounter.

I realise of course that most people won't use such high doses of coconut oil

due to weight gain in a sedentary lifestyle, essential fatty acids deficiency,

and so on, and they would be correct. Several of the research papers point out

that coconut oil should be blended to create a more balanced fatty acid profile

for humans. This is one of those times; I use mainly butter and I'm getting in

some MCT oil.

Myself, I chose the route of adequate glutathione precursors and extra ferritin,

but, screw loose in there somewhere or not, you can believe Rico and Tony over

Bruce and the research data.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Thank you Rico and Tony. I knew there was a screw loose in there somewhere.

After all, if coconut oil is so potentially " dangerous " , wouldn't all those

tropical folks who have been using coconut oil as their primary source of fat

for generations have long ago become extinct? I think it's called survival of

the fittest :-)

>

> Best Wishes,

> Dee

>

[Guest guest]

That quote from the article sums it up well, Dee. There seems to be so many

studies that are marketing and/or financially motivated.

At the end of the article Colpo affirms " So when clueless health

" experts " tell you to opt for polyunsaturated fat instead of saturated fat,

ignore the living daylights out of them. Doing so could well save your life. "

The final note before the list of references reads as follows :

" Unlike the authors of the above study, Colpo has absolutely no ties to any

food, drug, medical, or supplement industry groups, nor health organizations

that receive money from these groups. "

> >

> > There seems to be a lot of attacks aimed at saturated fats , coconut oil and

so on. This article has a look at one such study.

> >

> >

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/532-saturated-fat-attack?qh=YTo3OntpO\

jA7czo3OiJjb2NvbnV0IjtpOjE7czo4OiJjb2NvbnV0cyI7aToyO3M6Mzoib2lsIjtpOjM7czo0OiJva\

WxzIjtpOjQ7czo2OiJvaWxpbmciO2k6NTtzOjU6Im9pbGVkIjtpOjY7czoxMToiY29jb251dCBvaWwiO\

30%3D

> >

> > The last paragraph of this article is food for thought.

> >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for the link. I did miss to read that post in the past. It is very

informative.

Dr Fife went on to say that MCFAs are broken down into monoglycerides. So this

means that lauric acid does not go " as is " into our blood after digestion. Am I

correct? Now im wondering what do experts call a monoglyceride from lauric acid?

Anyways, Im not an expert on this matter but my point is if it (lauric acid) has

been broken down by digestion, it is converted into something else.

Regards,

Rico

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 1:12:17 AM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

 

" My primary concern is the statement that lauric acid is converted into

monolaurin. This is not true. Lauric acid cannot be broken down or converted

into monolaurin. This inaccurate statement is often found on many websites. " ---

Bruce Fife.

So, the fellow whose coconut oil books people study contradicts your statement.

><Coconut Oil/message/32139>

The study remains relevant.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Shouldnt the study be done instead on monolaurin? But why on the effects

lauric

>

> acid when our digestive system breaks it down into monolaurin? The study is

> irrelevant.

>

> Rico

>

>

[Guest guest]

The post points out that nearly all the lauric acid absorbs into the blood

without digestion and then into the cells where it is then broken down to make

energy. About 1% of coconut oil is made into monolaurin according to Dr. Kabara,

which I think meant about 2% of the lauric acid can be converted into

monolaurin, where nine (9) grams of lauric acid might be a germicidal dose......

Dr Fife expressed concern that people mistakenly think that useful amounts of

momolaurin are created from dietary lauric acid in coconut oil and he pointed

out Dr. Kabara says it isn't so.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi Duncan,

>

> Thanks for the link. I did miss to read that post in the past. It is very

> informative.

>

> Dr Fife went on to say that MCFAs are broken down into monoglycerides. So this

> means that lauric acid does not go " as is " into our blood after digestion. Am

I

> correct? Now im wondering what do experts call a monoglyceride from lauric

acid?

> Anyways, Im not an expert on this matter but my point is if it (lauric acid)

has

> been broken down by digestion, it is converted into something else.

>

>

>

> Regards,

> Rico

>