Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis question

[Guest guest]

Duncan, if you check the methodology of the study, you will see that it did not

use pure water, but water with NaOH dissolved in it. In other words, the lauric

acid was put into sodium hydroxide solution. As certain as the passage of time,

lauric acid will react with NaOH in this solution.

I make soap almost everyday in my factory. If you make soap using fatty acids

instead of fats, you will see that the reaction is practically instantaneous. It

is easy to verify this at home - gargle a tbsp of coconut oil for about 15

minutes to let the lipase in the saliva hydrolyze some of the fats to fatty

acids. Spit this into a solution of caustic soda on a glass of water. Stir the

mix - you get a soapy mixture!

Tony

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 12:46:33 AM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

Lauric acid, the component that comprises 51% or so of coconut oil, was used in

the hemolysis experiment.

Laurin, actually monolaurin, is a product of the body or the lab, using the

lauric acid as the base.

" Lauric acid does not undergo neutralization in water because it and monolaurin

are both insoluble in water. "

all good,

Duncan

> >

> > How does dissolving lauric acid in NaOH becomes a way to mimic blood

> >conditions?

> >

> > Do fatty acids exist in blood in saponified condition (as soaps)?

> >

> > Tony

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>.

>

> Myself, I chose the route of adequate glutathione precursors and extra

ferritin, but, screw loose in there somewhere or not, you can believe Rico and

Tony over Bruce and the research data.

Duncan, what I believe is that the research data you presented (a single obscure

test tube experiment from 1973, using a single fatty acid dissolved in a

solution of NaOH) to be totally irrelevant to the consumption of coconut oil.

And even if lauric acid alone were to have some kind of toxic effect on the

blood, perhaps you could equate that to the " unstable and toxic effect of

cysteine " (your words) - as opposed to it's inclusion in undenatured whey where

it has quite the opposite effect.

And as for the opinions of Bruce Fife regarding coconut oil, you would do well

to familiarize yourself with his home page, along with the long list of research

data on his site:

http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/index.htm and

http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/coconut-research.htm

I'm sure he would appreciate your not taking his words out of context in yet

another attempt to invalidate his own carefully compiled research.

Dee

[Guest guest]

Tony, in the study only a couple of specks of NaOH was added to water to make

the solution " isotonic " , or in other words the same amount of alkaline (tone) as

blood is.

This common approach in biological research ensures blood tonicity is matched

and it prevents red blood cells from lysing due to " hypotonicity " of straight

water. Using fresh water with its poor tonicity would add to the amount of

lysing caused by lauric acid and throw the experiment.

Tony, as a soap maker you know well that soap making is all about concentration.

While alkalai for saponification is pH 9 to 10. Biologists know well that there

is no saponification at blood concentration of 7.4. This is practically the same

response I sent to you yesterday.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan, if you check the methodology of the study, you will see that it did

not

> use pure water, but water with NaOH dissolved in it. In other words, the

lauric

> acid was put into sodium hydroxide solution.

[Guest guest]

Dee, to quote Dr. Fife again: " My primary concern is the statement that lauric

acid is converted into monolaurin. This is not true. Lauric acid cannot be

broken down or converted into monolaurin. This inaccurate statement is often

found on many websites. "

How exactly do you think the statement can be seen to be taken out of context?

Here again is the whole post I linked to so you can read it all yourself,

including Dr. Kabara's statement that only 1% to 2% of the lauric acid in

coconut oil is turned into monolaurin.

><Coconut Oil/message/32139>

I think it's impossible to take these primary researchers' comments out of

context in this particular post. Quite the reverse; their comments are most

clear and it's YOU Dee who are confused so you are trying to insinuate your own

ideals into their carefully compiled research. Your own comments are attempting

to invalidate these gentlemen's work, not support it. Please read the post in

its entirety and try to understand where your comments disagree with theirs.

all good,

Duncan

>

> And as for the opinions of Bruce Fife regarding coconut oil, you would do well

to familiarize yourself with his home page, along with the long list of research

data on his site:

> http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/index.htm and

> http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/coconut-research.htm

>

> I'm sure he would appreciate your not taking his words out of context in yet

another attempt to invalidate his own carefully compiled research.

>

> Dee

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > And as for the opinions of Bruce Fife regarding coconut oil, you would do

well to familiarize yourself with his home page, along with the long list of

research data on his site:

> > http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/index.htm and

> > http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/coconut-research.htm

> >

> > I'm sure he would appreciate your not taking his words out of context in yet

another attempt to invalidate his own carefully compiled research.

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dee, we previously discussed Dr. Fife's concern and Dr. Kabara's work on

monolaurin. I brought that post forward to show that the comment that monolaurin

is made from lauric acid in coconut oil is unsupported. That was supposed by

many people to be a main attribute of coconut oil, but it turns out that " lauric

acid " , not " monolaurin " , is the form of this fatty acid in the blood.

Now that it is understood that lauric acid is definitely present in the blood

after its consumption, the hemolytic action of lauric acid on red blood cells

has new meaning. It may not point to danger as such, but the damage to red blood

cells should be recognized, quantified, and mitigated, because free iron is so

damaging.

Your red herring comments are not useful to this discussion but may be useful in

a new thread. I am aware that free form cysteine is toxic, and I advocate people

to use non-hydrolyzed whey if they are concerned about free cysteine or

glutamate.

all good,

Duncan

> >

> > Dee, to quote Dr. Fife again: " My primary concern is the statement that

lauric acid is converted into monolaurin. This is not true. Lauric acid cannot

be broken down or converted into monolaurin. This inaccurate statement is often

found on many websites. "

> >

> > How exactly do you think the statement can be seen to be taken out of

context?

> >

> Duncan,

>

> The overall context in which you were using it was an attempt to " prove " that

coconut oil (which contains Lauric Acid) is dangerous. This was certainly not

the context in which Bruce Fife's comments were made (as well as the comments of

Dr. Kabara).

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

Until you can prove that the consumption of COCONUT OIL damages red blood cells,

then your own argument remains the real red herring. Sorry, but that flimsy 35

year old experiment using lauric acid ONLY just doesn't do it. The processes in

the human body are just too complex to come to such a conclusion based on a

single in vito experiment.

And there is just too much compelling research enumerating the health benefits

as well as the healing powers of the OIL. I seriously doubt it can both damage

red blood cells and improve health, let alone maintain it for all the years it

has been used in the tropics. However, if you wish to take measures to " protect "

yourself that is your decision - but please don't continue to push it on the

rest of us. Time to drop it unless you have some additional evidence that

coconut oil (not lauric acid) damages red blood cells.

Dee

>

> Now that it is understood that lauric acid is definitely present in the blood

after its consumption, the hemolytic action of lauric acid on red blood cells

has new meaning. It may not point to danger as such, but the damage to red blood

cells should be recognized, quantified, and mitigated, because free iron is so

damaging.

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan, the " couple of speck " was actually very specific in the study - it used

0.027 Molar concentration of sodium hydroxide in water. Lauric acid was

dissolved in it to a final Molar concentration of minus 4 magnitude. If you

review chemical reaction stoichiometry you will immediately see the discrepancy

on this. The dilute concentration of sodium hydroxide is significant in relation

to the small amount of fatty acid used.

I am sure biologists can figure out how to make the in-vitro test condition

" isotonic " without altering the nature of the material whose effect is the one

being investigated in the study, rather than take the method as simply a " common

approach in biological research.. "

Duncan, soap making like all other chemical reactions, is not " all about

concentration " . It is also about temperature, kinetics, energy flow, and

reaction potential of reactants. Fat and NaOH reacts slowly in a saponification

reaction, that is why it is normally carried out under conditions that makes the

pace acceptable: higher pH (as you rightly pointed out), higher temperature, and

stronger mixing. But, fatty acid and NaOH react fast, being an acid-base

neutralization reaction. And the statement in your previous post that this

neutralization reaction does not happen because lauric acid is insoluble in

water, is simply untrue.

Tony

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 12:45:16 AM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

Tony, in the study only a couple of specks of NaOH was added to water to make

the solution " isotonic " , or in other words the same amount of alkaline (tone) as

blood is.

This common approach in biological research ensures blood tonicity is matched

and it prevents red blood cells from lysing due to " hypotonicity " of straight

water. Using fresh water with its poor tonicity would add to the amount of

lysing caused by lauric acid and throw the experiment.

Tony, as a soap maker you know well that soap making is all about concentration.

While alkalai for saponification is pH 9 to 10. Biologists know well that there

is no saponification at blood concentration of 7.4. This is practically the same

response I sent to you yesterday.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan, if you check the methodology of the study, you will see that it did

not

>

> use pure water, but water with NaOH dissolved in it. In other words, the

lauric

>

> acid was put into sodium hydroxide solution.

[Guest guest]

Tony, the researchers approached blood concentration of alkalai to maintain

normal tonicity so the red blood cells being studied wouldn't break. This level

of tonicity is a blood requirement; if this level in the blood induced soap

formation in response to dietary fat, buddy, none of us would be here today

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan, the " couple of speck " was actually very specific in the study - it

used

> 0.027 Molar concentration of sodium hydroxide in water.

[Guest guest]

Dee, oils that are mixed together retain the properties of each one; in other

words mixing them in one's food does not magically modify their properties.

Instead, each molecule of mixed fatty acids passes independently into the blood

as the original oil.

That lauric acid passes into circulation whole, as lauric acid, can be noted

partly by its cholesterol-raising effect, and partly by its presence in damaged

cell membranes.

The property lauric acid has allows it to get inside cells for burning. It has

to pass through the second membrane of the cells, and it also often destabilizes

the cell membrane. This is seen in research also in other cells besides red

blood cells, but a lysed red blood cell produces oxidative stress the other

cells do not.

What is unclear is whether it's the non-LDL-transported lauric acid that is

causing the trouble, or all of it, both LDL-transported and free oil. And how

much it increases oxidative stress due to liberating free iron.

The data we have so far speaks for itself I think. It's likely that fatty acids

other than lauric acid also can lyse red blood cell walls, if that makes any

difference to your opinion.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan,

>

> Until you can prove that the consumption of COCONUT OIL damages red blood

cells, then your own argument remains the real red herring.

[Guest guest]

Nope. Not unless you can present evidence that coconut oil (not any single fatty

acid) lyses (you just love that word, don't you?) red blood cell walls. The data

so far - at least the single experiment you have presented - may speak for

" itself " (whatever that would be) but it certainly doesn't speak for the danger

of coconut oil. But I guess you think if you repeat it often enough, and speak

in your usual voice of authority, people will start to believe it. I certainly

hope that doesn't happen here, preventing those who haven't experienced it's

benefits yet to avoid it. Fortunately we have Dr. Bruce Fife and Dr. Lew Fong

How to counter your fanciful theories.

Dee

>

> The data we have so far speaks for itself I think. It's likely that fatty

acids other than lauric acid also can lyse red blood cell walls, if that makes

any difference to your opinion.

>

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

>

>

> >

> > Duncan,

> >

> > Until you can prove that the consumption of COCONUT OIL damages red blood

cells, then your own argument remains the real red herring.

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan, I can say that I am here today (I have consumed coconut oil throughout

my 50-year life so far), and for my mother as well (who have consumed coconut

oil throughout her 86-year life so far) partly because the published study that

you cited as basis of one of your assertions against lauric acid has busted

methodology - its conclusion meaningless. Buddy, continue talking basic

chemistry.

Tony

________________________________

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 12:38:19 AM

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

Tony, the researchers approached blood concentration of alkalai to maintain

normal tonicity so the red blood cells being studied wouldn't break. This level

of tonicity is a blood requirement; if this level in the blood induced soap

formation in response to dietary fat, buddy, none of us would be here today

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan, the " couple of speck " was actually very specific in the study - it

used

>

> 0.027 Molar concentration of sodium hydroxide in water.

[Guest guest]

If lauric acid is a major component of milk that nature has destined to newborns

and infants then it does not seem plausible that it would have negative effects

in the human body. While in the tropics I have witnessed nursing mothers consume

appreciable amounts of coconut products.

Some studies don't seem to hold water.

> >

> > Duncan, the " couple of speck " was actually very specific in the study - it

used

> >

> > 0.027 Molar concentration of sodium hydroxide in water.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Tony and others,

It was observed closely In this e-forum on coconut oil that in  over the  5

years, the     sharing or  arguing, and  inputs of  extensive and

intensive information, facts, credible and doubtful  statements occurred on

coconut products and its principal products. These are coconut oil ( as VCO,

RBD, copra oil), coconut milk, coconut water, dessicated or fresh meat. 

Indeed, I sincerely feel sorry for those who still failed to understand or

recognize that  food products derived from the nut or fruit of coconut are very

safe, healthy, nutritious.  In fact,  even the coconut sugar produced from the

coconut sap (naturally- flowing from unopened coconut palm inflorescence) has a

low glycemix index (GI) of 35 only thus a better natural sugar or sweetener for

diabetic and non-diabetic people of all ages. A GI of 50 or lower is good for

us, in relation to blood sugar/glucose flow in the human body. 

 And lately, the incredible and outstanding health and energy from taking

coconut water (known in coconut-producing countries), now fast- spreading and

recognized, marketed/utilized in western/temperate and middle-east countries. 

Do you know that coconut water is naturally pure or  sterile,  very unique,

naturally high in positive ions (esp. potassium, calcium magnesium, sodium) and

this is balanced naturally by   negative ions, esp. chloride ions), thus

high  in  neutral body electrolytes.

Finally, I'm inclined to believe that studies on  coconut oil done for

companies or groups supporting the commercial interest of other fats and oil

sources, intended  to downgrade  (the coconut oil's   strengths or natural

desirable atttributes had been   designed to achieve eventually conclusions in

favor of predetermined biased findings against the coconut oil.    We know

well that the fatty acid profiles of fats and  oils had been done and

published  by  oil chemists/biochemists, researchers and scientists of the

scientific world.  Thus the subject is  already science, and as such is the

best tool in knowing the truth about global fats and oils for food, nutrition ,

health and wellness.

All the best,

Sev Magat

From: <r_long@...>

Subject: Re: VCO and MCT research -- RBC hemolysis

question

Coconut Oil

Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 10:59 PM

 

If lauric acid is a major component of milk that nature has destined to

newborns and infants then it does not seem plausible that it would have negative

effects in the human body. While in the tropics I have witnessed nursing mothers

consume appreciable amounts of coconut products.

Some studies don't seem to hold water.

> >

> > Duncan, the " couple of speck " was actually very specific in the study - it

used

> >

> > 0.027 Molar concentration of sodium hydroxide in water.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, anything can be harmful, and it seems lauric acid may not be an

exception.

In human milk fat destined for newborns and infants the 5.5% lauric acid is

rather low, isn't it, not at all the major component you think it is. 5.5% is

not a major fat.

Coconut oil contains almost 10 times as much lauric acid. That means a

comparable " dose " or daily serving of lauric acid is met with only 10% of the

total fat intake. 52% makes it a major fat. This big difference was not lost on

people who read the data.

What it means is that nature intended that you probably should have around 5.5%

lauric acid in your total fat intake.

Knowing that, I wouldn't want to use coconut oil as my main food oil, and sure

enough, many traditional cultures had liberal amounts of natural pork fat in

their diet along with coconut oil.

I have suggested adding butter and other fatty acids (DHA, EPA for example) to

complement one's VCO with the fatty acids and vitamins that are missing in VCO,

and also to get one's total lauric acid intake down closer to what nature

intended for humans. I think most people who use VCO are doing that and not

using VCO as their only oil source, subsistence diets aside, which always

present other negative issues.

Put another way, we now know that fatty acid deficencies are common in people

who use only coconut oil. Companies that know even VCO should be supplemented

are offering comercial blends of " healthier " coconut oil spiked with MCT oil,

such as Quality First's Nutra-oil.

One only has to look at the fat profiles of various mammalian milk for an

example of what nature intended for mammals, especially newborns and infants as

you say. Subsistence diets and fad diets are rarely as good as what nature

intended.

all good,

Duncan

>

> If lauric acid is a major component of milk that nature has destined to

newborns and infants then it does not seem plausible that it would have negative

effects in the human body.

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

Enig, PhD, a Nutritionist, postulated that 31/2 Tbs of VCO, per 150 lb.

weight, would be a therapeutic amount to take based on how much of the fatty

acid an infant was receiving from its mother. In addition, the VCO is

absorbed through the intestinal wall into the Portal Vein where it is

transported directly to the liver for processing before going into the

circulatory system.

Regards,

Craig

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

Nursing mothers in the tropics, due to their consumption of coconut products

have a higher percentage of lauric acid in their breast milk.

If you prefer to lessen your consumption of coconut oil then suit yourself.

There are many who, after consideration, have chosen otherwise. No need for

clever cynicisms like the following..

" This big difference was not lost on people who read the data. "

Please respect that opinions may differ.

-------------------

" You can obtain all of the essential fatty acids required by using just

coconut oil and omega-3 fatty acids. If you were to use coconut oil as your

primary oil, the only other oil you would need is an omega-3 fatty acid, which

you can get by eating salmon twice a week, or taking fish oil or flax oil

capsules, 2-3 per day. "

Dr Newport MD from " Dietary Guidelines "

------------------------------

[Guest guest]

From " Dietary Guidelines " by Dr Newport MD

" You can obtain all of the essential fatty acids required by using just coconut

oil and omega-3 fatty acids...If you were to use coconut oil as your primary

oil, the only other oil you would need is an omega-3 fatty acid....

Lauric acid is a medium chain triglyceride that makes up almost half of the

coconut oil. Scientific studies show that lauric acid has antimicrobial

properties and may inhibit growth of certain bacteria, fungus/yeast, viruses and

protozoa. It is one of the components of human breast milk that prevents

infection in a newborn. "

----------------------------

Dr Newport's bio:

" She trained in Pediatrics at Children's Hospital Medical Center in Cincinnati,

and completed her fellowship in neonatology, the care of sick and premature

newborns, at the Medical University Hospital in ton, SC. She has

practiced neonatology in Florida since 1983 and has been medical director of the

newborn intensive care unit at Spring Hill Regional Hospital since opening in

2003. Dr. Newport is employed by the All Children's Specialty Physicians group,

who provide newborn services to Spring Hill Regional Hospital. She is also

volunteer clinical faculty for the Department of Pediatrics, University of South

Florida since January 2004. She previously practiced neonatology and served as

medical director at Mease Hospital Dunedin, after founding the newborn intensive

care unit at that hospital in 1987. "

-----------------------------

Similarly, many years earlier Dr. Johanna Budwig advocated " Oleolux " : a

combination of

2 parts Coconut oil (with)

1 part flax oil.

> >

> > If lauric acid is a major component of milk that nature has destined to

newborns and infants then it does not seem plausible that it would have negative

effects in the human body.

>

[Guest guest]

YOU wrote ,Duncan :

< ...knowing that momma's milk ain't wrong, a cow's milk fat is only

2.2%-2.8% lauric acid, human milk fat is 5.5% lauric acid, and coconut oil

contains a rather excessive 51%-53% lauric acid. >

In passing, I am a little taken aback , particularly from you , a

holistic consultant.

There is no significance attributed to the totality of the food item in

question at all - coconut oil. The holistic dictum: the therapeutic efficacy

in totality of an herb or food is not the same as the sum of its parts and

its bidirectionality has not been invoked

< Maybe Bruce Fife has an answer to the questions raised by this research.>

I invoke this special holistic dictum for an answer.

With regards

Lew

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

>

> Most of the research used not VCO but " MCT oil " , which had all the lauric

> acid and longer chains removed; it is comprised almost entirely of caprylic

> and capric acids. Research that specified " coconut oil " actually employed

> coconut oil.

>

> MCT oil figures FYI:

> http://www.kicgroup.com/c8c10tg.htm

>

> The following study shows lauric acid breaks down (lyses) red blood cell

> walls in normal blood salt (normotonic) conditions for blood of humans and

> two other animals. Hemolysis may be the reason some people have symptoms

> from coconut oil that are often attributed to the Herxheimer/Jarish effect

> (AKA healing response); coocnut oil could be breaking down some of your red

> blood cells.

>

> <

>

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=h009675m113g2463 & size=larges\

t

> >

>

> Another example of how unwise it can be to " chase the herx " . You can break

> blood cells with certain frequencies too, and I think that was proposed on

> one of our groups several years ago by an electrical engineer who is into

> Rife equipment.

>

> Moving on, knowing that momma's milk ain't wrong, a cow's milk fat is only

> 2.2%-2.8% lauric acid, human milk fat is 5.5% lauric acid, and coconut oil

> contains a rather excessive 51%-53% lauric acid.

>

> I had been seeking to increase my MCT oil intake without increasing my

> lauric acid intake. Given the seriousness of hemolysis, The MCT oil is

> looking better all the time.

>

> Maybe Bruce Fife has an answer to the questions raised by this research.

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

>

>

> >

> > VCO will control your body weight.

> >

> > VCO content of high lauric acid ( until 53%), a saturated fat

> > enchained ( with its carbon 12) which is ordinary to be referred as

> > medium chain fatty acid alias MCFA.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan, B-hydroxybutyrate is product of fat metabolism. I do not remember

reading that after ingestion of suitable fats its production is an issue. Adding

butter is an idea.. I suppose it wouldn't hurt.

There may be hope for Alzheimer patients. Thats an important message that

emanates from some of the current research.

The big question mark is the potential for reducing symptoms related to

neurological diseases. The neuroprotective potential is considerable. So

potentially there may be avoidance ( and treatment) of diseases such as

neuro-muscular pathologies, MS and complications from types 1 and 2 diabetes.

> >

> > Duncan,

> > I respect your choice in favor of milk fat...

> > The higher MCT fraction may be a good choice for some, I agree. In

particular it could potentially be useful for those who have Alzheimer's.

Apparently coconut oil/mct can achieve a level of ketosis capable of providing 5

to 10 % of the brain's energy requirements.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dee,

Absolutely, I agree, and the important " take home " message from Dr Newport

is

-------------

" a simple dietary change to

coconut oil could make a difference for people who

believe they are at risk and for those who already

have one of these diseases. "

Dr Newport is referring to: " Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's

disease, Huntington's chorea, multiple sclerosis, ALS, type I and type II

diabetes, as well as any number of other conditions that

involve a defect in transport of glucose into

neurons and other cells. "

------------------------

> >

> > , the research suggests that the major ketone body is a

hydroxybutyrate. While milk fat (cow butter) provides a base for it by providing

butyric acid, neither MCT oil nor VCO contains any butyric acid at all so the

body must fend for itself on that by making it from other oils. Alzheimers

patients might make adequate hydroxybutyrate from VCO or MCT oil but I'll

suggest butter as more of a sure thing.

> >

> > all good,

> >

> > Duncan

>

[Guest guest]

The bulk of the butyric acid in one's diet is actually derived from a healthy

bowel ecology; butyrate is a main product of many of the bifidobacteria strains.

There may be reason to suspect poor bowel ecology contributes to alzheimer's

disease; my personal observation is that most of the people I've seen with

alzheimer's are malnourished and they also ate poorly for many years prior to

the onset, usually the pasta meat and potatoes crowd.

Since about 80% of the adult population have a degree of dysbiosis and candida

involvement I'm not sure that you could analyse it easily and I don't know if

this relationship has been adequately researched. I think alzheimers was

relatively rare in cultures that were eating a prehistoric diet.

Still, butter provides butyrate used in ketone body formation and that's a good

fat.

all good,

Duncan

>

> My father-in-law came down with Alzheimers in his 60's, despite a life long

diet of butter and full fat milk. He was a farmer and their milk and butter came

from their own grass fed cows. Too bad they knew nothing of the benefits of

coconut oil and Omega 3 fatty acids for Alzheimers:

> http://tinyurl.com/3epp28l

>

> Dee

>

[Guest guest]

I agree butter is a good fat, Duncan. I use it too - though in moderation.

However, I don't think I would consider it " a sure thing " as an Altzheimer's

prevention or amelioration. Coconut oil and Omega 3's may not be a sure thing

either, but the research is more compelling.

Dee

> >

> > My father-in-law came down with Alzheimers in his 60's, despite a life long

diet of butter and full fat milk. He was a farmer and their milk and butter came

from their own grass fed cows. Too bad they knew nothing of the benefits of

coconut oil and Omega 3 fatty acids for Alzheimers:

> > http://tinyurl.com/3epp28l

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dee, I pointed out that butter and a healthy bowel ecology both provide butyrate

as " a sure thing " for butyrate supply. None of the fatty acids are a sure thing

for amelioration of Alzheimer's and I wouldn't post such a notion.

Alzheimer's is one of the oxidative stress disorders, so it's a good bet that

one can slow degeneration by reducing oxidative stress.

BlockBuster AllClear improves microcirculation and reduces coagulopathy and

inflammation.

Undenatured whey and selenium plus reducing the polyunsaturated fats to

essential levels reduces oxidative stress.

There is very little disease progress generally without oxidative stress being

high. A couple of real interesting fulltext documents, " Metabolism and functions

of glutathione in brain " and " Oxidative Stress: The Curse That Underlies

Cerebral Vascular Dysfunction? " are posted in my glutathione references:

http://tinyurl.com/glutathione-references

all good,

Duncan

>

> I agree butter is a good fat, Duncan. I use it too - though in moderation.

However, I don't think I would consider it " a sure thing " as an Altzheimer's

prevention or amelioration. Coconut oil and Omega 3's may not be a sure thing

either, but the research is more compelling.

>

> Dee

>