Re: Philippine News Item - Virgin coconut oil hailed as cure for alzheimers

September 1, 2011

What I was referring to " T " was the statement in his recent (and previous) posts

where he says Dr. Newport got her initial results using MCT oil first, then

added the VCO later. That is not correct. It was the other way around. And btw,

she now uses the combination 3 times a day, in addition to cooking with VCO.

And notice in the post below he goes on to say that the VCO is an impairment and

not really helping? Where on earth did he get that idea? Again - no

substantiation for this B.S. statement. But if it makes sense to you perhaps you

are suffering from a bit of impairment yourself " T " :-) Just joking of course

:-)

However, here is the (Duncan's) statement I was referring to:

" What was used in this thread of alzheimer's treatment was MCT oil as a known

active ingredient, then a blend of the active ingredient with VCO. "

Reading comprehension " T " ?

Dee

--- > Actually, he did address that part:

>

> On 2011-08-30 11:08 PM, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> > In any event adding VCO means a longer time before the MCT oil can be

> > used up creating the ketones. This sreems like an impairment to me.

> >

> > Remembering that lauric acid does not produce nearly the ketones that

> > the shorter chains do, it seems it's not really helping, or hasn't

> > been shown to be helping, in an MCT/VCO mix; it really seems to be a

> > buffer in this regard, at best neutral, at worst an impairment.

> >

> > In fact you could most likely take MCT oil twice as often to maintain

> > ketone level, and not need the dilution factor of the VCO at all.

>

> Makes sense to me...

>

> You'll get better results with pure MCT oil, but take it more often (3-4

> times per day) to keep the levels up.

>

September 1, 2011

@Dee: ...with a nod to your reading and comprehension issues, the first quote

you are nagging about isn't mine

With regard to my quote, " the oxidative stress that propels the disease is not

stopped by MCT oil " , an understanding of oxidative stress will help you see why

I mentioned it. I've given lots of links in my discussions of oxidative stress

over the last nine years; here's one of them:

http://tinyurl.com/glutathione-references

Again a reference to reading and comprehension. You'll never " get the gist of

it " without a bit of work.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Well forgive me for continuing to nag Duncan dearest, but if you are going to

post definitive comments such as " eventually, MCT oil won't help because there

won't be enough healthy neurons to carry on... " , or " the oxidative stress that

propels the disease is not stopped by MCT oil. " - then shouldn't you be prepared

to back up those statements with some hard evidence, even if only personal

experience? I'm quite willing to accept someone's experience as at least " a "

truth, but not someone's unsubstantiated opinion.

>

> As for your contention that Dr. Fife incorporated information that was

un-researched or poorly researched, you give no specifics whatsoever. So, once

again, more spitting into the wind in order to further inflate your own ego.

>

> And as far as your OWN reading and comprehension skills, I guess you missed

the part in both articles that stated Dr. Newport achieved her original results

with coconut oil alone and only added the MCT oil later; and while she did find

the MCT oil to work even better, the effect didn't last as long until she

combined the two.

>

> Another point you both either didn't read, or ignored, was the fact that scans

of Dr. Newport's husband confirm that the atrophy in his brain has come to a

complete halt - and remain steady over the last 3 years. Of course I guess you

would want to ignore that because it challenges your theory that " the oxidative

stress that propels the disease is not stopped by MCT oil " - for which you have

no proof (at least so far).

>

> As I stated previously, only time will tell - but the use of these two oils

together does seem promising - as does the new information regarding

neurogenesis.

>

> Dee

>

September 1, 2011

Dee, as I understand it, VCO impairs either MCT absorption or utilisation during

MCT oil's ketone body formation. That is not a positive contribution when you

could just keep levels a bit high by dosing MCT a bit more often and not use the

coconut oil as a diluant.

all good,

Duncan

> > And as far as your OWN reading and comprehension skills, I guess you

> > missed the part

> Actually, he did address that part

September 1, 2011

>

> @Dee: ...with a nod to your reading and comprehension issues, the first quote

you are nagging about isn't mine

>

> With regard to my quote, " the oxidative stress that propels the disease is not

stopped by MCT oil " , an understanding of oxidative stress will help you see why

I mentioned it. I've given lots of links in my discussions of oxidative stress

over the last nine years; here's one of them:

> http://tinyurl.com/glutathione-references

>

> Again a reference to reading and comprehension. You'll never " get the gist of

it " without a bit of work.

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

No thanks Duncan,

If you can't explain yourself here with a link to the original info there,

forget it. I prefer my information from the source. Besides, If I go to your

website I'll have to view that awful picture of you once again. It's just too

close to my next meal for that one :-)

Dee

September 1, 2011

Ketogenic diets have been produced with many oily foods, and Newport may have

got some results by following a number of similar approaches.

With regard to the use of VCO in the [Newport-based] exercise, it may be seen as

a diluant that can be left out. Note the science is pretty clear that lauric

acid can be stored in fat instead of immediately converted to ketones and the

shorter chain fatty acids produce ketone bodies much better than lauric acid

does anyway. This may be one reason for relatively the poor performance of VCO

in elevating ketones compared to refined MCT oil.

all good,

Duncan

September 1, 2011

If that were true, Duncan, how then do you explain the dramatic results Dr.

Newport was able to achieve with VCO - and then a mixture of the two? Rather

than " diluting " it, it appears to prolong the effect. And even if MCT worked

better by taking it more often, you might have to take it 5 or 6 times a day

rather than 3. Do you really know?

Dee

> > > And as far as your OWN reading and comprehension skills, I guess you

> > > missed the part

> > Actually, he did address that part

>

September 1, 2011

This quote from R. Dringen's peer-reviewed article titled Metabolism and

functions of glutathione in brain should be of interest; the article is cited by

hundreds of other studies:

"

Oxidative stress generated by ROS appears to be

connected with the loss of neurons during the pro-

gression of neurodegenerative diseases, i.e., Parkinson's

disease, Alzheimer's disease and amyotrophic lateral

sclerosis (ALS) (Bains and Shaw, 1997; Cadet and

Brannock, 1998; Reiter, 1998; Sun and Chen, 1998).

These facts underline the importance of an effective

antioxidant system for brain function during a long

human life. "

all good,

Duncan

> >

> > @Dee: ...with a nod to your reading and comprehension issues, the first

quote you are nagging about isn't mine

> >

> > With regard to my quote, " the oxidative stress that propels the disease is

not stopped by MCT oil " , an understanding of oxidative stress will help you see

why I mentioned it.

September 1, 2011

Dee, the ketogenic diet was already known as a treatment by the Alzheimer's

associations and discussion groups, before Newport.

Newport noted the higher ketone elevations produced better results, and that

coconut oil reduces the peak ketone production. IMO that's a diluant. Taking MCT

oil results in a higher peak fairly quickly, the MCT is used up quickly, even in

one person with Alzheimer's, and the exercise can apparently be repeated as

often as one likes with this food. I suggest you should try it yourself

all good,

Duncan

>

> If that were true, Duncan, how then do you explain the dramatic results Dr.

Newport was able to achieve with VCO - and then a mixture of the two? Rather

than " diluting " it, it appears to prolong the effect. And even if MCT worked

better by taking it more often, you might have to take it 5 or 6 times a day

rather than 3. Do you really know?

>

> Dee

>

September 1, 2011

And why would you want to take something that causes frequent peaks then valleys

- rather than a steady and continuous condition? Not to mention the diarrhea

that can result from too much of either oil. His condition has remained good on

3 TBS of the mixture per day.

I seriously doubt that you know more about this than she does Duncan, so why

don't you just move on now to a subject you do know something about. Or maybe

you should take your own suggestion and try it yourself. Enough said.

Dee

> >

> > If that were true, Duncan, how then do you explain the dramatic results Dr.

Newport was able to achieve with VCO - and then a mixture of the two? Rather

than " diluting " it, it appears to prolong the effect. And even if MCT worked

better by taking it more often, you might have to take it 5 or 6 times a day

rather than 3. Do you really know?

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

September 1, 2011

Dee, the answer is that MCT oil gets ketones up quickly and one can avoid

valleys by re-dosing at around the half life, thus maintaining a higher level

for longer in the day. Same as some drugs such as NAC. I think I mentioned

dosing more often in my post.

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > If that were true, Duncan, how then do you explain the dramatic results

Dr. Newport was able to achieve with VCO - and then a mixture of the two?

Rather than " diluting " it, it appears to prolong the effect. And even if MCT

worked better by taking it more often, you might have to take it 5 or 6 times a

day rather than 3. Do you really know?

> > >

> > > Dee

> > >

> >

>

September 1, 2011

If you take it more frequently you are taking more. That makes it more difficult

to take with meals and diarrhea can result. He had to increase his dosage slowly

because of that.

Duncan, this is a subject (MCT/VCO) for which you have LITTLE TO NO EXPERIENCE,

so PLEASE - show a little humility and respect for those who do by moving on.

Enough already.

Dee

> > > >

> > > > If that were true, Duncan, how then do you explain the dramatic results

Dr. Newport was able to achieve with VCO - and then a mixture of the two?

Rather than " diluting " it, it appears to prolong the effect. And even if MCT

worked better by taking it more often, you might have to take it 5 or 6 times a

day rather than 3. Do you really know?

> > > >

> > > > Dee

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 2, 2011

Dosing more frequently at a lower dose can also be the " same " or less daily. 1

tsp 7 times a day is less MCT oil than 3 tsp 3 times a day. Frequency and amount

are separate variables.

>

> If you take it more frequently you are taking more.

September 2, 2011

What a brilliant idea. I'm sure those with memory problems will remember to take

your recommended dosage 7 times a day :-)

Dee

> >

> > If you take it more frequently you are taking more.

>

September 2, 2011

People with memory problems often have assistance to take their meals and their

meds, yes. I'm glad someone thought of that.

all good,

Duncan

>

> What a brilliant idea. I'm sure those with memory problems will remember to

take your recommended dosage 7 times a day :-)

>

> Dee

>

September 2, 2011

Only those with advanced conditions have assistants - and it would even be

difficult for them, as I'm sure they have other things to do.

Dee

> >

> > What a brilliant idea. I'm sure those with memory problems will remember to

take your recommended dosage 7 times a day :-)

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

September 2, 2011

The solution for people with memory issues and no keeper to remind them would be

to incorporate MCT oil into their lifestyle rather than try to remember take it

off the spoon as a " dose " several times a day.

At home I add MCT oil, vitamin D, selenium and inulin to whey shakes, I add MCT

oil to nuts and cream, stews and soups, the pot roast with the vegetables

(instead of roasting in olive oil), on salad, etc. It hides in almost any food

including ice cream so it is easy to see a couple of tbsp. per day without

taking it off the spoon.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Only those with advanced conditions have assistants - and it would even be

difficult for them, as I'm sure they have other things to do.

>

> Dee

>

September 2, 2011

Duncan,

While I realize you are dedicated to presenting yourself as an expert on all

things, with all due respect you have only been taking MCT oil for a VERY short

time - according to your own previous posts. Nor do you have alzheimer's, or any

experience treating anyone with advanced alzheimer's with either MCT or VCO.

While the method you describe MIGHT work just fine as a preventative, it's a

haphazard approach for those who's needs have to be determined by specific

dosing, and the regimen adhered to so their level remains steady throughout the

day. This dosing was very carefully determined by Dr. Newport after

experimenting first with VCO alone, then MCT alone - and ultimately deciding

that a 50/50 mix worked best. And for you to tout the use of MCT alone under

these conditions by saying that lauric acid is somehow detrimental is simply

contradicted not only by her husband's MRI scans since beginning with VCO, but

also by his scores on Alzheimer's rating scales and his own recovered abilities:

quote:

" After starting the coconut oil, his scores on Alzheimer's rating scales

improved dramatically. Within just a couple of weeks his score on the Mini

Mental Status Exam, a standard test for Alzheimer's, went from a low of 12 out

of 30 to 18. A very significant improvement, which is unheard of since

Alzheimer's is a progressive disease that doesn't get better over time. It

always gets worse. His score continued to improve, elevating him from moderately

severe up to a mild stage of Alzheimer's.

He has improved so significantly that he now volunteers twice a week at the

hospital where his wife works, helping in the warehouse and delivering supplies.

He is pleased with his job and enjoys the people with whom he works. He

continues to improve. With a smile on his face he exclaims " I've got my life

back. "

When and if you are able to achieve those same results under similar conditions

with your own protocol you can let us know. Until then. . . . . .

Dee

>

> The solution for people with memory issues and no keeper to remind them would

be to incorporate MCT oil into their lifestyle rather than try to remember take

it off the spoon as a " dose " several times a day.

>

> At home I add MCT oil, vitamin D, selenium and inulin to whey shakes, I add

MCT oil to nuts and cream, stews and soups, the pot roast with the vegetables

(instead of roasting in olive oil), on salad, etc. It hides in almost any food

including ice cream so it is easy to see a couple of tbsp. per day without

taking it off the spoon.

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

>

September 2, 2011

I cannot be bothered mentioning others reading comp issues in this tone ---- I

am not that rude, unless provoked.

Just state your opinion or your substantiated fact and move on-------------

leave the nasty, only intended to shut the other person up, or make them feel

small, comments for your personal life. They do not belong on this board.

If someone interprets your comments erroneously -- correct it in a nice manner.

Everyone makes mistakes - interpretation, grammatical, and otherwise.

Why does MCT oil or coconut oil HAVE to be a cure for anything??

They seem to be very helpful and likely harmless.

So I am going to wait around for the medical community to regard something

alternative as definitive. And by that time it will likely be too expensive,

too rare, too processed, or I will have to get it by prescription.

For every study that even purports a remedy/concoction/dietary recommendation

there are likely two that come along that say the opposite.

What happened to internal wisdom? Do you need someone else to tell you

something is beneficial? Do we need an expensive study that proves prayer

works?

Did anyone here really believe that there was really a cure for alzheimers from

that article -- or were you able to overlook the sensationalism of the title?

Cure was way too strong a word to be used.

Am I allowed to say that there will probably never be a cure for

alzheimers/dementia? Maybe these two oils, when used synergistically, might

slow the progression or prevent the disease when used with free radical

scavengers. I found the article hopeful.

The need for scientific study on the MCT oil/coconut oil seemed too negative.

Are these oils not brain food? Could they be capable of more than what is known

as of yet? Could they be less than what many hope for? Absolutely

Will I be using it for alzheimers, dementia, seizure disorder, cognitive

decline, traumatic brain injury, etc. -----------Absolutely.

I will be the first at the store buying a truckload of any potential treatment

(that may not have 100% scientific backing but that has credible sources

regarding its effect) for any disorder as long as that treatment is minimally

invasive, with little or no known side effects.

My biggest concern is that one would not even try using an MCT oil or coconut

oil in their management of a neuro disease after reading the discussion here

regarding the article.

elaine

> >

> > And you consider yourself to be an expert then, ? Are you a

neurologist? If so then please enlighten us as to YOUR credentials. If you read

Dr. Fife's article or his books you might notice that he provides references to

the studies he used in his research - something you have yet to do.

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

September 2, 2011

1. If coconut oil reduces the peak ketone production that doesn't necessarily

make it a dilutant, possibly an enhancer or prolongs the effect(like controlled

release).

2. Dr. Newport used originally only used VCO and had results. Having problems

dismissing VCO because of Newport's results with VCO only.

elaine

<duncancrow@...> wrote:

>

> Dee, the ketogenic diet was already known as a treatment by the Alzheimer's

associations and discussion groups, before Newport.

>

> Newport noted the higher ketone elevations produced better results, and that

coconut oil reduces the peak ketone production. IMO that's a diluant. Taking MCT

oil results in a higher peak fairly quickly, the MCT is used up quickly, even in

one person with Alzheimer's, and the exercise can apparently be repeated as

often as one likes with this food. I suggest you should try it yourself

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

>

> >

> > If that were true, Duncan, how then do you explain the dramatic results Dr.

Newport was able to achieve with VCO - and then a mixture of the two? Rather

than " diluting " it, it appears to prolong the effect. And even if MCT worked

better by taking it more often, you might have to take it 5 or 6 times a day

rather than 3. Do you really know?

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

September 3, 2011

Elaine, nobody is dismissing VCO; the ketogenic diet, of which it can form a

part, was already famous before Newport latched onto it. With MCT oil we hope to

get additional benefit much like Newport did, but in energy, recovery, metabolic

rate and so on in addition to reducing cognitive deterioration as we age.

all good,

Duncan

>

> 1. If coconut oil reduces the peak ketone production that doesn't necessarily

make it a dilutant, possibly an enhancer or prolongs the effect(like controlled

release).

>

> 2. Dr. Newport used originally only used VCO and had results. Having

problems dismissing VCO because of Newport's results with VCO only.

>

> elaine

>

September 3, 2011

>

snip>

>

> I found this little article that says that Dementia's are increasing all over

> the world, even in places where coconuts are grown and I assume widely

> consumed. One would have to seriously investigate whether or not those being

> stricken in these area consume VCO regularly, something I am in no position

to

> do, but it would be interesting.

>

Yes, the question as to whether VCO is consumed regularly, as it once was in

these areas, is a good one. As we know, these areas have become increasingly

urbanized:

A quote from the Philippine Inquirer:

" The Philippines today has one of the highest rates of urbanization in the East

Asian and Pacific region at roughly 53 percent " .

And like nearly all places on the planet have been invaded by all of the fast

food chains: http://tinyurl.com/3o8ojmf

A scroll to the bottom shows not only a Philippines Mcs but Burger King,

Taco Bell, Subway, 's KFC, and Jollibee.

In addition, is it too far fetched to suspect that the public has been

indoctrinated for the last 20 or so years with westernized views of health that

included the belief that saturated fats like coconut oil are bad for you? I

don't really know either but perhaps Tony can be of some help in that regard.

Dee

September 3, 2011

Hi My name is and I have been reading these posts in hopes of finding

something for my grandpa's Alzheimer's. The doctors of course have stated that

even experimental treatments are a dead end currently and offered no hope. I

read Dr. Newport's articles and a couple of Mr. Fife's books. I have hopes for

the keytone stuff and will be trying it out. As for Mr. Fife, I think that he

is an advocate for coconut which is good but I will not call him a doctor.

Apparently, as per a friend of mine in naturopathic medicine, he cannot back up

his doctorate with documentation or a Universty. Sadly because of this anything

he says in his books I have to make sure of by researching elsewhere for proof.

It turns out that a lot of what he says is unfounded and has no real medical

research behind it. Dee keeps referring to him in conjunction with coconut oil

and that is making me nervous.

Can anyone post real research articles from real doctors / companies / medical

journals on alzheimers for me.

Thanks!!!!

> > >

> > > Yes, I understood the article, but what does that have to do with MCT oil

and

> >

> > > Alzheimer's? It obvious that our [probable] ability to create/replace

> >neurons

> >

> > > hasn't stopped dementia's in their tracks at all so far... they are still

> > here.

> > >

> > > C.

> > >

> >

September 3, 2011

Looks like good information on Alzheimers on this healing cancer natually

website.

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/alzheimers-disease-causes.html

nick

>

> Hi My name is and I have been reading these posts in hopes of finding