Guest guest Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 Duncan, Here you go again, blurting out on things you dont know enough. Chilling the liquid emulsion (the coconut milk) to 10 degrees C does not support efficient centrifuging. In fact it will make centrifuging impossible because solidified VCO sticks to machine internal surfaces. What is done in the process that you mentioned, which I call the Freeze Process because the oil is actually extracted by freezing, is to melt again the frozen oil using heat, and then use the centrifuge to clean the oil. Buddy, I admire you so much for the many things that you really know so well. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 11:22:25 PM Subject: Re: Digest Number 3642 - RBD Oil In an improved variant of VCO extraction, Quality First international's claim to fame is their one-pass VCO extraction process, in which the liquid emulsion is chilled to 10 degrees C, not heated to the 50 degrees C mentioned by Tony. This supports very efficient centrifuging that yields pharmaceutically pure oil. I don't know of another reasonably priced pharmaceutical-quality VCO. all good, Duncan > > Hi , > > Real Centrifuged Virgin Coconut Oil is from fresh coconut meat. After the milk > is extracted from the meat, the oil is extracted immediately from the milk by > spinning in a 3-way high-speed centrifuge.Some amount of heat (below 50 deg C) > is normally used to support efficient centrifuge operation. The extracted oil > normally has fresh and light coconut aroma and taste, without the taste and > aroma of fermentation (evidenced by low free fatty acid content, below 0.1%), > and without heating taste and aroma (also evidenced by zero peroxide value). > > Some models of centrifuged machines are sometimes used in other processes, but > these do not yield the above quality of real centrifuged oil. In the > Fermentation VCO Process the centrifuge machine maybe used to clarify the oil > instead of filtration. The oil still retains the quality resulting from the > fermentation process. In the VCO Expeller Process, the centrifuge machine may > also be used in the same manner. Again, the oil retains the quality resulting > from the heating process. > > I hope the above help. > > Tony > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bag <@...> > Coconut Oil > Sent: Thu, July 14, 2011 9:44:22 PM > Subject: Re: Digest Number 3642 - RBD Oil > > > Thanks Sev and Tony for your valuable contributions. > > I used to take Minola Oil while living in RP. But not anymore. > > I would like to find expeller pressed oil produced from fresh coconut meat that > > is not RBD but would not taste of coconut. > Is there such a thing? > > How about the centrifuge oil? I know this also is treated with some heat. Its > > coconut flavor is far less than the expeller pressed ones. Is this from fresh > coconut meat or copra? > > Take care. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 Tony, your comment reminds me of the ancient Chinese saying, " Those who say it can not be done should not interrupt the one who is doing it. " You are blurting, yourself, when you could instead read Vinia Marquez and Quality First International's patent and glean what you can from their expertise Vinia's single-pass pharaceutically pure VCO extraction equipment does not use freezing; she gave me a five-minute explanation of how it works over the phone during one of my calls. Back to the drawing board, you. Or, you can lease the patented equipment and improve the speed and quality of your VCO extraction. Vinia will answer all the questions and concerns you might have. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, > > Here you go again, blurting out on things you dont know enough. Chilling the > liquid emulsion (the coconut milk) to 10 degrees C does not support efficient > centrifuging. In fact it will make centrifuging impossible because solidified > VCO sticks to machine internal surfaces. What is done in the process that you > mentioned, which I call the Freeze Process because the oil is actually extracted > by freezing, is to melt again the frozen oil using heat, and then use the > centrifuge to clean the oil. > > Buddy, I admire you so much for the many things that you really know so well. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 Duncan, how do you define freezing? In basic chemistry it is change of state of matter from liquid to solid. VCO starts to solidify at 25 degrees C. Cooling the emulsion to a much lower 10 degrees C that you mentioned will definitely solidify the oil. Isnt that freezing? I hope the person you mentioned will post here to clarify.. To me, the process appears fictitious based on how you describe it. I dont think it is really the case.. And they have a patent of the " Freeze Process " ? Here in the Philippines separating coconut oil by putting coconut milk inside the ref is common knowledge among many households. Do you know where is it patented and the reference patent number? Duncan, a human being may claim his bare body could withstand the burning temperature at the surface of the sun. I dont think the ancient Chinese saying that you cited, which incidentally is also one of my favorites, applies to this. It may have appeared that I was blurting too. But when 1 plus 1 is no longer equal to 2, I could really blurt out. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 2:36:48 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, your comment reminds me of the ancient Chinese saying, " Those who say it can not be done should not interrupt the one who is doing it. " You are blurting, yourself, when you could instead read Vinia Marquez and Quality First International's patent and glean what you can from their expertise Vinia's single-pass pharaceutically pure VCO extraction equipment does not use freezing; she gave me a five-minute explanation of how it works over the phone during one of my calls. Back to the drawing board, you. Or, you can lease the patented equipment and improve the speed and quality of your VCO extraction. Vinia will answer all the questions and concerns you might have. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, > > Here you go again, blurting out on things you dont know enough. Chilling the > liquid emulsion (the coconut milk) to 10 degrees C does not support efficient > centrifuging. In fact it will make centrifuging impossible because solidified > VCO sticks to machine internal surfaces. What is done in the process that you > mentioned, which I call the Freeze Process because the oil is actually >extracted > > by freezing, is to melt again the frozen oil using heat, and then use the > centrifuge to clean the oil. > > Buddy, I admire you so much for the many things that you really know so well. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 OK, Tony the terminology seems to be different. In Canada we call VCO " solid " or " liquid " , as opposed to " frozen " or " thawed " . Vinia, the inventor of the patented single-pass equipment, stated that no heat was used at any point in the process, that chilling prior to separation is employed to solidify the oil, and centrifuging the chilled slurry dries the oil. Also, that only ambient room temperature allows the oil to be liquid. The patent on the single-pass equipment should be easy to find for someone in the industry who searches for existing patents and I'm sure that's not me. No doubt the inventors of similar equipment know the patent because they have to legally avoid using the exact same process. There are several Quality First installations; perhaps some of them got their equipment by lease or maintenance contract from Vinia and did not design their own. Nobody from Quality First International posts here; the company puts most of its energy into doing business as the largest coconut oil wholesaler in North America, but Vinia Marquez is open to queries and questions particularly on the equipment she designed. She probably knows the patent number from memory; the company's website is http://qualityfirst.on.ca all good, Duncan > > Duncan, how do you define freezing? In basic chemistry it is change of state of > matter from liquid to solid. VCO starts to solidify at 25 degrees C. Cooling the > emulsion to a much lower 10 degrees C that you mentioned will definitely > solidify the oil. Isnt that freezing? > > > I hope the person you mentioned will post here to clarify.. To me, the process > appears fictitious based on how you describe it. I dont think it is really the > case.. > > > And they have a patent of the " Freeze Process " ? Here in the Philippines > separating coconut oil by putting coconut milk inside the ref is common > knowledge among many households. Do you know where is it patented and the > reference patent number? > > > Duncan, a human being may claim his bare body could withstand the burning > temperature at the surface of the sun. I dont think the ancient Chinese saying > that you cited, which incidentally is also one of my favorites, applies to this. > > > It may have appeared that I was blurting too. But when 1 plus 1 is no longer > equal to 2, I could really blurt out. > > Tony > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hi Tony, If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would be news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention of a patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm Best, Dee > > > > Duncan, > > > > Here you go again, blurting out on things you dont know enough. Chilling the > > liquid emulsion (the coconut milk) to 10 degrees C does not support efficient > > centrifuging. In fact it will make centrifuging impossible because solidified > > VCO sticks to machine internal surfaces. What is done in the process that you > > mentioned, which I call the Freeze Process because the oil is actually > >extracted > > > > by freezing, is to melt again the frozen oil using heat, and then use the > > centrifuge to clean the oil. > > > > Buddy, I admire you so much for the many things that you really know so well. > > > > Tony > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Here's a clue by way of another email; the wet-milling process must be unusual in a single-pass machine, and the reason for the " enormous difference " in quality: Subject: Re: Wilderness Family VS Tropical Traditions From: " coreessence " <coreessence> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:03:59 -0000 Message Number: 11050 Onibasu Link: http://onibasu.com/archives/cl/11050.html I spoke with VInia Marquez myself the other day (she's the founder of QFI and the developer of the wet milling process) and she tells me that WAPF is very aware of her as well. Apparantly Enig knows her and approached her about being a chapter leader in Canada. She's very confused about why WAPF is promoting TT coconut oil and not QFI's, given the enormous difference in quality. Does anybody (Sally or ) know why TT was chosen for " Eat Fat Lose Fat " over QFI? > > > > Duncan, how do you define freezing? In basic chemistry it is change of state of > > matter from liquid to solid. VCO starts to solidify at 25 degrees C. Cooling the > > emulsion to a much lower 10 degrees C that you mentioned will definitely > > solidify the oil. Isnt that freezing? > > > > > > I hope the person you mentioned will post here to clarify.. To me, the process > > appears fictitious based on how you describe it. I dont think it is really the > > case.. > > > > > > And they have a patent of the " Freeze Process " ? Here in the Philippines > > separating coconut oil by putting coconut milk inside the ref is common > > knowledge among many households. Do you know where is it patented and the > > reference patent number? > > > > > > Duncan, a human being may claim his bare body could withstand the burning > > temperature at the surface of the sun. I dont think the ancient Chinese saying > > that you cited, which incidentally is also one of my favorites, applies to this. > > > > > > It may have appeared that I was blurting too. But when 1 plus 1 is no longer > > equal to 2, I could really blurt out. > > > > Tony > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Duncan, there is no difference in terminology between Canada and basic chemistry: solid is solid, and liquid is liquid. Not frozen and thawed. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 11:46:46 PM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO OK, Tony the terminology seems to be different. In Canada we call VCO " solid " or " liquid " , as opposed to " frozen " or " thawed " . all good, Duncan -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think i know why Weston Price Foundation supports Tropical Tradition. During the early days of virgin coconut oil, it was TT that popularized it via internet and did enormous research and even had Enig's and Saly Fallon's articles on their websites to substantiate their claims about the goodness of coconut oil. They were THE ONLY ONES then. The owner of the website would not allow any other health topics discussed except vco. They are vendors of the vco also. Now there are numerous vendors and websites and most quote what TT has published. LOL. As to the freeze method, you can just let the hardened milk out in the kitchen with a natural room temp of 90F-95F; oil and water would separate by itself, no need for machine if you are patient enough to scoop the oil and the water out, of course this is only for self consumption, no way can you use this for commercial purposes. Too tedious. But you get good quality oil depending on how well you take out the water. > > > > > > Duncan, how do you define freezing? In basic chemistry it is change of state of > > > matter from liquid to solid. VCO starts to solidify at 25 degrees C. Cooling the > > > emulsion to a much lower 10 degrees C that you mentioned will definitely > > > solidify the oil. Isnt that freezing? > > > > > > > > > I hope the person you mentioned will post here to clarify.. To me, the process > > > appears fictitious based on how you describe it. I dont think it is really the > > > case.. > > > > > > > > > And they have a patent of the " Freeze Process " ? Here in the Philippines > > > separating coconut oil by putting coconut milk inside the ref is common > > > knowledge among many households. Do you know where is it patented and the > > > reference patent number? > > > > > > > > > Duncan, a human being may claim his bare body could withstand the burning > > > temperature at the surface of the sun. I dont think the ancient Chinese saying > > > that you cited, which incidentally is also one of my favorites, applies to this. > > > > > > > > > It may have appeared that I was blurting too. But when 1 plus 1 is no longer > > > equal to 2, I could really blurt out. > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 During the early days of retail VCO, while Shilhavy the founder of TT was leveraging his Internet skill to start a retail coconut oil business in 1999, Quality First International was already the largest coconut oil importer and wholesaler in North America. TT has worked tirelessly at establishing a new retail presence that can sell their retail amounts, while Quality First continues to work to fill any size order in their commodity line. The numerous websites quoting are mainly selling Quality First oil I personally think we shouldn't use the term " freeze " for solidifying coconut oil, since it does it at room temperature. The manufacturer of the equipment doesn't use the term; they use the terms " chilled " and " solid " . all good, Duncan > > > I think i know why Weston Price Foundation supports Tropical Tradition. During the early days of virgin coconut oil, it was TT that popularized it via internet and did enormous research and even had Enig's and Saly Fallon's articles on their websites to substantiate their claims about the goodness of coconut oil. They were THE ONLY ONES then. The owner of the website would not allow any other health topics discussed except vco. They are vendors of the vco also. Now there are numerous vendors and websites and most quote what TT has published. LOL. > > As to the freeze method, you can just let the hardened milk out in the kitchen with a natural room temp of 90F-95F; oil and water would separate by itself, no need for machine if you are patient enough to scoop the oil and the water out, of course this is only for self consumption, no way can you use this for commercial purposes. Too tedious. But you get good quality oil depending on how well you take out the water. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner Vinia is available for telephone inquiries. QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at your location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil producers are third country so that makes them third country traders based in Canada. You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what their " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and for the preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate it is pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. all good, Duncan > > Hi Tony, > > If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would be news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention of a patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > Best, > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Duncan, Dee I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but did not get a reply. I do not wish to disturb them in their big oil trading business. May I just share that one of our customers, from the US, came to our factory last year bringing a sample of good quality " centrifuged " VCO produced in Thailand using a process similar to what I think QFI's is (frozen, melted, centrifuged). She came wanting to be convinced that she was buying a better VCO from us. I explained that my factory's process puts high premium on freshness of the oil and having a fat profile that is closest to what naturally exist in fresh coconut meat. After she inspected practically everything in our process, and knowing some on how we operate our company, she decided to continue buying from us. Duncan, in case there is science to this - not loose words, on what basis can an " indefinite " shelf life be attributed to a commercial VCO product? Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 12:22:48 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner Vinia is available for telephone inquiries. QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at your location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil producers are third country so that makes them third country traders based in Canada. You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what their " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and for the preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate it is pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. all good, Duncan > > Hi Tony, > > If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would be >news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention of a >patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and >distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > Best, > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Tony, May I ask what brand of coconut oil your company produces... and is it available in the USA? Thanks. Bob Re: Centrifuged VCO > > > Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner > Vinia is > available for telephone inquiries. > > > QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at > your > location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil > producers are third country so that makes them third country traders based > in > Canada. > > You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what their > " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and > for the > preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate it > is > pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. > > all good, > > Duncan > > >> >> Hi Tony, >> >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would >> be >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention >>of a >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm >> >> Best, >> Dee >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Tony, Thanks for sharing your experience. What's the trade name or label of your VCO and VCO-based products, and the location of your processing  plant ? Do you grow your coconut raw materials (nuts). Pardon, if you feel my queries are those you don't expected asked from my end. Thanks, Sev Magat ________________________________ From: AGPacific Nutriceutical <agnutriceutical@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Re: Centrifuged VCO  Duncan, Dee I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but did not get a reply. I do not wish to disturb them in their big oil trading business. May I just share that one of our customers, from the US, came to our factory last year bringing a sample of good quality " centrifuged " VCO produced in Thailand using a process similar to what I think QFI's is (frozen, melted, centrifuged). She came wanting to be convinced that she was buying a better VCO from us. I explained that my factory's process puts high premium on freshness of the oil and having a fat profile that is closest to what naturally exist in fresh coconut meat. After she inspected practically everything in our process, and knowing some on how we operate our company, she decided to continue buying from us. Duncan, in case there is science to this - not loose words, on what basis can an " indefinite " shelf life be attributed to a commercial VCO product? Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 12:22:48 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner Vinia is available for telephone inquiries. QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at your location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil producers are third country so that makes them third country traders based in Canada. You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what their " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and for the preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate it is pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. all good, Duncan > > Hi Tony, > > If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would be >news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention of a >patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and >distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > Best, > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hi Tony, indefinite shelf life of the Virgin Oil de Coco Creme extracted by Quality First International's equipment means no detectable deterioration after several years in storage at room temperature. Periodically they go back and do another analysis. Pharmaceutical purity is the other term they use, meaning no detectable impurities I've used VOCC and my son has some that today is at least 7 years old; it smells like you just opened a fresh coconut and there's no trace of that mellowness caused by heat. Because no heat has been applied, it IS exctly just the cold-processed oil that exists in natural coconut meat. Comparing your oil to an unknown oil Tony serves no purpose even when you're fishing for compliments from a customer. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, Dee > > I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but > did not get a reply. I do not wish to disturb them in their big oil trading > business. > > May I just share that one of our customers, from the US, came to our factory > last year bringing a sample of good quality " centrifuged " VCO produced in > Thailand using a process similar to what I think QFI's is (frozen, melted, > centrifuged). She came wanting to be convinced that she was buying a better VCO > from us. I explained that my factory's process puts high premium on freshness of > the oil and having a fat profile that is closest to what naturally exist in > fresh coconut meat. After she inspected practically everything in our process, > and knowing some on how we operate our company, she decided to continue buying > from us. > > Duncan, in case there is science to this - not loose words, on what basis can an > " indefinite " shelf life be attributed to a commercial VCO product? > > Tony > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Are you still giving free samples of your centrifuged coconut oil to list members Tony? My son has some Quality First Virgin Oil de Coco Creme to do a side-by-side comparison with. Quality First also sent about 40 free samples of Virgin Oil de Coco Creme in 2007 over a period of two weeks when I mentioned it on two health lists. Most companies don't send out free samples and I don't know if QFI still does it. Perhaps Vinia the VP of sales only missed Dee's request; I could see that on a busy day of wholesaling 20' sea containers of coconut oil, that sending out free samples to potential retail customers may get as much attention; after all they are in business to make money from wholesale sales. They have several grades of coconut oil at wholesale, several exotic oils, nut butters, coconut flour, dried coconut meat and so on, so no doubt the company is pretty busy moving fresh commodities. Most of it is in stock so if you need these commodities, they are available on time and in quantity. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, Dee > > I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but > did not get a reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Uh, that was not me Duncan - it was Nina in message #5081 who mentioned that she called Vinia for a sample and received no reply. And in message #5115, Jay wrote: " I called Quality First International and they quoted me a price of $62 USD per gallon if you buy 4 gals. I converted the price you mentioned below of $42 canadian to USD and it came to $34.92 USD. That is quite a difference from what they quoted me. Do you know something that I don't to get that price? Thanks, Jay " end quote Dee > > > > Duncan, Dee > > > > I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but > > did not get a reply. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Bob, We sell thru a consolidator for organic products, in drums. I dont have enough details in what form it is eventually marketed/distributed. Tony ________________________________ From: Bob Banever <bbanever@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 11:11:31 AM Subject: Re: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, May I ask what brand of coconut oil your company produces... and is it available in the USA? Thanks. Bob Re: Centrifuged VCO > > > Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner > Vinia is > available for telephone inquiries. > > > QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at > your > location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil > producers are third country so that makes them third country traders based > in > Canada. > > You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what their > " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and > for the > preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate it > is > pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. > > all good, > > Duncan > > >> >> Hi Tony, >> >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would >> be >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention >>of a >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm >> >> Best, >> Dee >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Hi Prof.Magat, Practically all our centrifuged VCO production is exported in bulk. We dont export any other product at this time. Our factory is in Davao. We buy coconuts from accredited organic coconut farms. We harvest the coconuts directly from our supplier's farms to control maturity of nuts and freshness. No problem at all with your queries. Thanks. Tony ________________________________ From: Severino Magat <severino_magat@...> " Coconut Oil " <Coconut Oil > Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 3:17:32 PM Subject: Re: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, Thanks for sharing your experience. What's the trade name or label of your VCO and VCO-based products, and the location of your processing plant ? Do you grow your coconut raw materials (nuts). Pardon, if you feel my queries are those you don't expected asked from my end. Thanks, Sev Magat ________________________________ From: AGPacific Nutriceutical <agnutriceutical@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Re: Centrifuged VCO Duncan, Dee I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but did not get a reply. I do not wish to disturb them in their big oil trading business. May I just share that one of our customers, from the US, came to our factory last year bringing a sample of good quality " centrifuged " VCO produced in Thailand using a process similar to what I think QFI's is (frozen, melted, centrifuged). She came wanting to be convinced that she was buying a better VCO from us. I explained that my factory's process puts high premium on freshness of the oil and having a fat profile that is closest to what naturally exist in fresh coconut meat. After she inspected practically everything in our process, and knowing some on how we operate our company, she decided to continue buying from us. Duncan, in case there is science to this - not loose words, on what basis can an " indefinite " shelf life be attributed to a commercial VCO product? Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 12:22:48 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner Vinia is available for telephone inquiries. QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at your location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil producers are third country so that makes them third country traders based in Canada. You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what their " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and for the preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate it is pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. all good, Duncan > > Hi Tony, > > If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would be >news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention of a >patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and >distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > Best, > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Tony, Thanks much  for your reply. Further query please: as you are based in Davao (Southern Mindanao) that hosts or grows  many commercial plantations which apply almost regularly pesticides and synthetic fertilizers to achieve desired high crop  yields, I wonder how you and the organic farms insure that  source raw materials (fresh nuts) are naturally produced  from organic farms (100%). By the way, have you established the minimum distance of " should be coconut organic farms " from non-organic commercial plantations [fruit crops, beverage crops (cacao and coffee) including cereal grains as rice and corn]. Thanks and regards. Sev Magat ________________________________ From: AGPacific Nutriceutical <agnutriceutical@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Re: Centrifuged VCO  Hi Prof.Magat, Practically all our centrifuged VCO production is exported in bulk. We dont export any other product at this time. Our factory is in Davao. We buy coconuts from accredited organic coconut farms. We harvest the coconuts directly from our supplier's farms to control maturity of nuts and freshness. No problem at all with your queries. Thanks. Tony ________________________________ From: Severino Magat <severino_magat@...> " Coconut Oil " <Coconut Oil > Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 3:17:32 PM Subject: Re: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, Thanks for sharing your experience. What's the trade name or label of your VCO and VCO-based products, and the location of your processing plant ? Do you grow your coconut raw materials (nuts). Pardon, if you feel my queries are those you don't expected asked from my end. Thanks, Sev Magat ________________________________ From: AGPacific Nutriceutical <agnutriceutical@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Re: Centrifuged VCO Duncan, Dee I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but did not get a reply. I do not wish to disturb them in their big oil trading business. May I just share that one of our customers, from the US, came to our factory last year bringing a sample of good quality " centrifuged " VCO produced in Thailand using a process similar to what I think QFI's is (frozen, melted, centrifuged). She came wanting to be convinced that she was buying a better VCO from us. I explained that my factory's process puts high premium on freshness of the oil and having a fat profile that is closest to what naturally exist in fresh coconut meat. After she inspected practically everything in our process, and knowing some on how we operate our company, she decided to continue buying from us. Duncan, in case there is science to this - not loose words, on what basis can an " indefinite " shelf life be attributed to a commercial VCO product? Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 12:22:48 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner Vinia is available for telephone inquiries. QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at your location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil producers are third country so that makes them third country traders based in Canada. You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what their " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and for the preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate it is pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. all good, Duncan > > Hi Tony, > > If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would be >news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention of a >patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and >distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > Best, > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Hi Duncan, thanks for further info about indefinite shelf life. Further query, how is deterioration of the VCO measured? Are there test results on Free Fatty Acid, Peroxide Value, and Moisture, the usual measurable indicators of VCO deterioration in the shelf? I checked QFIs website - info not available. I expected such a wonderful information would be highly shared. Your 7-year old QFI VCO tasting like a fresh coconut is too amazing for me, it is beyond my experience. How come such a good quality product not fully consumed in 7 years? My factory has passed 5 years already, our 5-year old retention samples were still good but none tasted like our fresh centrifuged VCO. I know that kind of a shelf life is possible with RBD coconut oil, which I think is logical because it is " dead " already of health-giving contents other than the MCTs after undergoing chemical and high-heat processing. Buddy, if you go through my post carefully you might notice that I did not compare my VCO. I described what my factory's focus are on VCO quality, and let that customer decide for herself. You might also notice that I acknowledged that the VCO sample from Thailand was of good quality (based on taste, color and odor only, since laboratory analysis of the oil was not available). I think that among good quality VCOs (those with high laurin and MCT content, not altered or deteriorated by processing, no hazardous contaminants), there is no relevance in comparing among them since consumers develop a " relationship " with the VCO that they been contently using. And no, I did not fish for customer compliments. I believe fishing for one losses Real customer compliments has to naturally happen. Meaning, possible only after experiencing the product. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 12:05:20 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Hi Tony, indefinite shelf life of the Virgin Oil de Coco Creme extracted by Quality First International's equipment means no detectable deterioration after several years in storage at room temperature. Periodically they go back and do another analysis. Pharmaceutical purity is the other term they use, meaning no detectable impurities I've used VOCC and my son has some that today is at least 7 years old; it smells like you just opened a fresh coconut and there's no trace of that mellowness caused by heat. Because no heat has been applied, it IS exctly just the cold-processed oil that exists in natural coconut meat. Comparing your oil to an unknown oil Tony serves no purpose even when you're fishing for compliments from a customer. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, Dee > > I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but > > did not get a reply. I do not wish to disturb them in their big oil trading > business. > > May I just share that one of our customers, from the US, came to our factory > last year bringing a sample of good quality " centrifuged " VCO produced in > Thailand using a process similar to what I think QFI's is (frozen, melted, > centrifuged). She came wanting to be convinced that she was buying a better VCO > > from us. I explained that my factory's process puts high premium on freshness >of > > the oil and having a fat profile that is closest to what naturally exist in > fresh coconut meat. After she inspected practically everything in our process, > and knowing some on how we operate our company, she decided to continue buying > from us. > > Duncan, in case there is science to this - not loose words, on what basis can >an > > " indefinite " shelf life be attributed to a commercial VCO product? > > Tony > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 No Duncan, I do not intend to give you a sample and go into a side-by-side comparison with your son's 7-year old sample of QFI VCO. But to anyone in this list who truly wants to try it, my company has a policy to give free samples to valid requests, freight paid by recipient to courier upon delivery. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 12:34:09 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Are you still giving free samples of your centrifuged coconut oil to list members Tony? My son has some Quality First Virgin Oil de Coco Creme to do a side-by-side comparison with. Quality First also sent about 40 free samples of Virgin Oil de Coco Creme in 2007 over a period of two weeks when I mentioned it on two health lists. Most companies don't send out free samples and I don't know if QFI still does it. Perhaps Vinia the VP of sales only missed Dee's request; I could see that on a busy day of wholesaling 20' sea containers of coconut oil, that sending out free samples to potential retail customers may get as much attention; after all they are in business to make money from wholesale sales. They have several grades of coconut oil at wholesale, several exotic oils, nut butters, coconut flour, dried coconut meat and so on, so no doubt the company is pretty busy moving fresh commodities. Most of it is in stock so if you need these commodities, they are available on time and in quantity. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, Dee > > I know of someone in this list who tried to contact QFI to taste their oil, but > > did not get a reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 The deterioration of VCO was done in a lab. I don't have data on the actual measurements made but I would expect that the usual indicators were used. I don't expect any information from any company to be highly shared. Again, QFI is a wholesaler and not big on personnel, including a webmaster for website work. It looks like the website hasn't changed much since 2004. I agree with the merit of experiencing the product; that's why I arranged with Vinia Marquez for QFI to send out several dozen free samples in 2007. QFI can afford this kind of advertising and unlike other brands they invite direct comparison with their finest product. I asked if you were prepared do the same and it doesn't bother me at all that you won't; I actually expected it. My son's wife doesn't like coconuts so he only uses it when he cooks for himself. My wife doesn't care for coconut either so if we use any it will be refined, either as flavourless RBD or MCT oil. I agree with rapport between supplier and user as well ...no problem there. all good, Duncan > > I think > that among good quality VCOs (those with high laurin and MCT content, not > altered or deteriorated by processing, no hazardous contaminants), there is no > relevance in comparing among them since consumers develop a " relationship " with > the VCO that they been contently using. > > > And no, I did not fish for customer compliments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Except that QFI covered the postage on their free samples, isn't that the same scenario Tony? all good, Duncan > > No Duncan, I do not intend to give you a sample and go into a side-by-side > comparison with your son's 7-year old sample of QFI VCO. > > > But to anyone in this list who truly wants to try it, my company has a policy to > give free samples to valid requests, freight paid by recipient to courier upon > delivery. > > > Tony > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 OK... thanks Tony. Bob Re: Centrifuged VCO >> >> >> Tony, there's a lot not said on the QFI website but the director/owner >> Vinia is >> available for telephone inquiries. >> >> >> QFI sets up their patented single-pass coconut oil extraction plant at >> your >> location under a maintenance contract as a joint effort. Most coconut oil >> producers are third country so that makes them third country traders >> based >> in >> Canada. >> >> You can taste the outcome in advance, as their own equipment is what >> their >> " Virgin Oil de Coco Creme " is made on. It is unsurpassed for quality and >> for the >> preservation of fragile and volatile principles in the oil; at any rate >> it >> is >> pharmaceutically pure and has an " indefinite " shelf life. >> >> all good, >> >> Duncan >> >> >>> >>> Hi Tony, >>> >>> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would >>> be >>>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no >>>mention >>>of a >>>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and >>>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: >>> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm >>> >>> Best, >>> Dee >>> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 No ,its not the same Duncan. My company is still small, it could not afford to give samples off-shore with free shipping at this time. We have abundant organic coconuts, but limited financial resources. Our main customers give forward payments so that I could produce their orders. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Mon, July 25, 2011 3:43:20 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Except that QFI covered the postage on their free samples, isn't that the same scenario Tony? all good, Duncan > > No Duncan, I do not intend to give you a sample and go into a side-by-side > comparison with your son's 7-year old sample of QFI VCO. > > > But to anyone in this list who truly wants to try it, my company has a policy >to > > give free samples to valid requests, freight paid by recipient to courier upon > delivery. > > > Tony > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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