Guest guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Duncan, I believe you could arrange with QFI exchange of VCO samples. I will send a sample of our centrifuged VCO to them for their evaluation, and they send me a sample of their best quality VCO. I look forward to learning something from their VCO. I believe they can also learn something from my VCO. I hope you could do it. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Mon, July 25, 2011 3:39:51 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO The deterioration of VCO was done in a lab. I don't have data on the actual measurements made but I would expect that the usual indicators were used. I don't expect any information from any company to be highly shared. Again, QFI is a wholesaler and not big on personnel, including a webmaster for website work. It looks like the website hasn't changed much since 2004. I agree with the merit of experiencing the product; that's why I arranged with Vinia Marquez for QFI to send out several dozen free samples in 2007. QFI can afford this kind of advertising and unlike other brands they invite direct comparison with their finest product. I asked if you were prepared do the same and it doesn't bother me at all that you won't; I actually expected it. My son's wife doesn't like coconuts so he only uses it when he cooks for himself. My wife doesn't care for coconut either so if we use any it will be refined, either as flavourless RBD or MCT oil. I agree with rapport between supplier and user as well ...no problem there. all good, Duncan > > I think > that among good quality VCOs (those with high laurin and MCT content, not > altered or deteriorated by processing, no hazardous contaminants), there is no > relevance in comparing among them since consumers develop a " relationship " with > > the VCO that they been contently using. > > > And no, I did not fish for customer compliments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Tony, QFI might send you a sample of Virgin Oil de Coco Creme but I doubt they'll ananlyze your VCO unless they were thinking about marketing it. I haven't communicated with the company since around 2009, so I really don't know. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, I believe you could arrange with QFI exchange of VCO samples. I will > send a sample of our centrifuged VCO to them for their evaluation, and they send > me a sample of their best quality VCO. I look forward to learning something from > their VCO. I believe they can also learn something from my VCO. > > > I hope you could do it. > > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 In our experience, the less moisture and contaminants will make your vco last for many years if protected from heat and light. > > > > I think > > that among good quality VCOs (those with high laurin and MCT content, not > > altered or deteriorated by processing, no hazardous contaminants), there is no > > > relevance in comparing among them since consumers develop a " relationship " with > > > > the VCO that they been contently using. > > > > > > And no, I did not fish for customer compliments. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hey guys, I live in Ontario, close to QFI and have been into visit them. I have been talking to Vinia about the process and the equipment and BOTH are patented. This was a joint venture between Vinia and the production company. This enabled Vinia to create a business relationship that allows no back soliciting and therefore QFI is the only source of this oil that is in a class by itself. Currently the website seems to be down but when I asked they said it would be up again by september, updated and with more info for the discerning consumer. > >> > >> Hi Tony, > >> > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > >> be > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > >>of a > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > >> > >> Best, > >> Dee > >> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 And you are? Dee > > >> > > >> Hi Tony, > > >> > > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > > >> be > > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > > >>of a > > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Dee > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Oops! My name is and I am a coconut oil fan that is doing research on the different types of oil available. I just added myself to twitter as well and will have an ongoing dialogue there as well under CoconutTruth > > > >> > > > >> Hi Tony, > > > >> > > > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > > > >> be > > > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > > > >>of a > > > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > > > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > > > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > > >> > > > >> Best, > > > >> Dee > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi, Does the production company of QFI use expeller press to extract the milk? Thanks, Enrico  ________________________________ From: " coconuttruth@... " <coconuttruth@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Mon, August 15, 2011 10:36:21 PM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO  Hey guys, I live in Ontario, close to QFI and have been into visit them. I have been talking to Vinia about the process and the equipment and BOTH are patented. This was a joint venture between Vinia and the production company. This enabled Vinia to create a business relationship that allows no back soliciting and therefore QFI is the only source of this oil that is in a class by itself. Currently the website seems to be down but when I asked they said it would be up again by september, updated and with more info for the discerning consumer. > >> > >> Hi Tony, > >> > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > >> be > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > >>of a > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > >> > >> Best, > >> Dee > >> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend anyone. Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and there was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I liked to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. However, the topic you are on now, the topic of Tony's oil, QFI's oil and other types of oil, I have lots of knowledge about. You see, I am the lady that was at Tony's plant in the Philippines. I have also toured coconut manufactures in Indonesia and Thailand as well as other parts of the Philippines. I have been to Asia a number of times and make it a habit to visit as many of the manufactures we purchase from as possible. I know the plant in Indonesia where QFI purchases from and I know of other places where QFI is a customer. There are several different types of centrifuge operations. I am familiar with most if not all of them. So I would like to set the record straight where there may be some misinformation. QFI purchases from an Indonesian company that has their main office in Singapore. The manufacturing plant is on the Island of Sumatra. The main product that comes from this plant is palm oil, but they also produce tetra paked coconut cream, dessicated coconut and a centrifuged coconut oil. All their coconut water is concentrated and sent to PepsiCo! The majority of their sales go to China and Europe. The family that owns it are Singaporean. There is one lady, the matriarch of the family, that is in charge. I have spoken with her on several occasions. For many years QFI had an exclusive from this manufacturer for the North American market. No other importer in America or Canada could purchase from that particular plant in Indonesia directly. I also have spent a fair amount of time speaking with Vinia (she and her husband own QFI) and know how difficult it is to get a hold of them on the phone and that their website does not always function properly. Tony (who has been writing in on this post) is a very nice man. If you go to this video you will see a short clip about my visit to Tony's plant and parts of the operation. We currently purchase all the centrifuged coconut oil that Tony produces. It is certified organic, virgin, centrifuged and kosher. And the people in this location including Tony are wonderful people. Annette Fischer From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Dolores Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 1:06 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO And you are? Dee > > >> > > >> Hi Tony, > > >> > > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > > >> be > > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > > >>of a > > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Dee > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 No they don't. > > >> > > >> Hi Tony, > > >> > > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > > >> be > > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > > >>of a > > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Dee > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thanks, ; I had pointed out a few times that the highest quality centrifuged VCO known is produced using Quality First International's patented extraction equipment, but I missed that the process itself it also protected by a patent. I do hope the company publishes the patent listings on the About page on their new website to alleviate the long-standing confusion exhibited by a few readers on this matter. As we've both pointed out, QFI is the only source of this oil and it is in a class by itself. Since it will be tough or maybe impossible to beat the quality without spending millions of dollars inventing a non-infringing extraction plant, if one wants to produce this particular gourmet VCO, a co-operative venture with Quality First International would be indicated. QFI, the largest VCO wholesaler in North America, will handle the entire output of a plant's Virgin Oil de Coco Creme. During my discussions with Vinia she expressed disapproval that some companies are buying Virgin Oil de Coco Creme and mixing it with cheaper VCO, which is called " virgin 2 " by the company. Clearly vexed at this point in time, she made the practise sound a tad fraudulent, but this would certainly be a low-end option for companies who seek to differentiate their VCO from the rest of the field. all good, Duncan > > Hey guys, > > I live in Ontario, close to QFI and have been into visit them. I have been talking to Vinia about the process and the equipment and BOTH are patented. This was a joint venture between Vinia and the production company. This enabled Vinia to create a business relationship that allows no back soliciting and therefore QFI is the only source of this oil that is in a class by itself. Currently the website seems to be down but when I asked they said it would be up again by september, updated and with more info for the discerning consumer. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hi Annette, Good to see you post here. I have a question for you. If an expeller pressed oil has its fatty acids removed, does that make it fractionated oil then? Thanks. > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend anyone. > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and there > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I liked > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? Tony ________________________________ From: " coconuttruth@... " <coconuttruth@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 1:35 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO  No they don't. > > >> > > >> Hi Tony, > > >> > > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > > >> be > > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > > >>of a > > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Dee > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hi , Sorry for butting in here, but just in case Annette is unable to reply due to being busy with company duties, the answer to your question is this: Fractionated Coconut Oil is a fraction of the coconut oil from which almost all the long chain triglycerides are removed, thus leaving mainly the Medium Chain Triglycerides, which are Capric acid and Caprylic acid, making it absolutely saturated oil. You can find some of the specific uses and benefits, and a brief description of how it is made at this site: http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-oils/organic-coconut-oil/fractionated-coconu\ t-oil.html Hope this helps, and perhaps Annette can provide more info. All the Best, Dee > > > > > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend anyone. > > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and there > > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I liked > > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hi Annette! Thanks for coming in, and for sharing the information yourself. Tony ________________________________ From: Annette Fischer <afischer@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO  I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend anyone. Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and there was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I liked to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. However, the topic you are on now, the topic of Tony's oil, QFI's oil and other types of oil, I have lots of knowledge about. You see, I am the lady that was at Tony's plant in the Philippines. I have also toured coconut manufactures in Indonesia and Thailand as well as other parts of the Philippines. I have been to Asia a number of times and make it a habit to visit as many of the manufactures we purchase from as possible. I know the plant in Indonesia where QFI purchases from and I know of other places where QFI is a customer. There are several different types of centrifuge operations. I am familiar with most if not all of them. So I would like to set the record straight where there may be some misinformation. QFI purchases from an Indonesian company that has their main office in Singapore. The manufacturing plant is on the Island of Sumatra. The main product that comes from this plant is palm oil, but they also produce tetra paked coconut cream, dessicated coconut and a centrifuged coconut oil. All their coconut water is concentrated and sent to PepsiCo! The majority of their sales go to China and Europe. The family that owns it are Singaporean. There is one lady, the matriarch of the family, that is in charge. I have spoken with her on several occasions. For many years QFI had an exclusive from this manufacturer for the North American market. No other importer in America or Canada could purchase from that particular plant in Indonesia directly. I also have spent a fair amount of time speaking with Vinia (she and her husband own QFI) and know how difficult it is to get a hold of them on the phone and that their website does not always function properly. Tony (who has been writing in on this post) is a very nice man. If you go to this video you will see a short clip about my visit to Tony's plant and parts of the operation. We currently purchase all the centrifuged coconut oil that Tony produces. It is certified organic, virgin, centrifuged and kosher. And the people in this location including Tony are wonderful people. Annette Fischer From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Dolores Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 1:06 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO And you are? Dee > > >> > > >> Hi Tony, > > >> > > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it would > > >> be > > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no mention > > >>of a > > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders and > > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Dee > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Tony, Quality First International developed a machine process that extracts coconut milk from the meat. The entire machine from raw coconut hopper to oil dispenser is proprietary, a single pass machine, but because it's also patented you will be able to get very detailed information from the patent. The whole of their protected process will be detailed in the patent all good, Duncan > > What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Yeah, ditto -- Annette, you WERE under scrutiny by the FDA? Meaning you are no longer under scrutiny and are now able to participate in the group discussions?? Glad for that all good, Duncan > > > >> > > > >> Hi Tony, > > > >> > > > >> If Quality First International has a patent on ANYTHING I think it > would > > > >> be > > > >>news to them. Have you been to their website? Not only is there no > mention > > > >>of a > > > >>patent, they specifically present themselves as third country traders > and > > > >>distributors of a number of fats and oils, not manufacturers: > > > >> http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/services.htm > > > >> > > > >> Best, > > > >> Dee > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 The issue with the registered TMs/patents is that you have to know who it is registered under and where to find the number so that you can access the information. I am curious to see the exact process as well but even though they were kind enough to outline it for me the secret is in the details and like any good company QFI is mum on those secrets. I don't blame them though, I would do the same if I had a product that good. > > > > What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? > > > > Tony > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hi and everyone, A triglyceride is made up of a glycerol " backbone " that has three free fatty acids attached to it. All fats in nature, whether animal or vegetable are stored/composed of triglycerides. Fractionated oils, whether coconut or other occur when the glycerol " backbone " is severed from the free fatty acids. This product is generally used by the cosmetic industry because it has a long shelf life and does not solidify or liquefy based on temperature changes. Therefore a cream or lotion would remain the same consistency no matter how hot or cold it was. In America that is more of an issue because of the changing seasons. Fractionated oils are no longer triglycerides of any size. They are " broken-up " triglycerides and the " parts " will be determined by what the original triglycerides were. In the case of coconut oil it is approximately 50 % lauric acid so half of the free fatty acids will be lauric acid. The problem with fractionated oils (in my opinion) is they taste awful. They have almost a burning, rancid, acid taste. This is why you see them used in the cosmetic industry and not used often with foods. If they are used with foods it is generally in small amounts and the taste is covered up with lots of sweeteners and other flavors. The chocolate industry is one that comes to mind that will sometimes use fractionated oil, but they use lots of sugar and chocolate which are very strong flavors and so the taste of the added fractionated oil is not noticed. Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Dolores Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:13 AM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Hi , Sorry for butting in here, but just in case Annette is unable to reply due to being busy with company duties, the answer to your question is this: Fractionated Coconut Oil is a fraction of the coconut oil from which almost all the long chain triglycerides are removed, thus leaving mainly the Medium Chain Triglycerides, which are Capric acid and Caprylic acid, making it absolutely saturated oil. You can find some of the specific uses and benefits, and a brief description of how it is made at this site: http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-oils/organic-coconut-oil/fractionated-co conut-oil.html Hope this helps, and perhaps Annette can provide more info. All the Best, Dee > > > > > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend anyone. > > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and there > > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I liked > > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hello , The only times I am aware of a fatty acid being " removed " is with a winterizing process or by the use of GMO seed. Winterizing: A winterizing process occurs when an oil is chilled to a specific temperature so that the larger, longer saturated fats become solid. These solidified fats then fall to the bottom of the container and the liquid fats are decanted. A winterized coconut oil would not have any stearic acid (an 18 carbon saturated fat) and it may have little or no palmitic acid (a 16 carbon saturated fat). This makes the percentage of medium chain fatty acids higher. Winterization commonly occurs with fish oil, cod liver oil and palm oil. Winterization of these oils is commonly practiced and as far as I know all or almost all of these three oils are winterized even though the customer has no idea this was done. In all three oils they are eliminating Stearic acid and sometime palmitic acid. Coconut oil is available as a winterized product, but it is not widely available, especially in the US. I would be interested in knowing from people on the list if they would like a winterized coconut oil. It would cost a bit more than regular coconut oil, but it would solidify at a lower temperature and stay liquid more of the year. It is a very light delicate oil and is made up of over 95% medium chain fatty acids as compared to regular coconut oil that is 56-75% medium chain fatty acids and unlike MCT oil it contains lots of lauric acid. When MCT oil is produced they take coconut oil and fractionate it so the glycerol backbone is severed from the fatty acids. This process " breaks-up " the triglyceride. Then they separate out all the different fatty acids and select only the capric (8 carbon chain) and caprylic (10 carbon chain) acids. These two fatty acids are then reattached to glycerol molecules. When people say MCT oil is fractionated that is not totally correct because while the oil is initially fractionated to separate out the different sized chains, they are then recombined into triglycerides and no longer fractionated at the end. I did some looking on the web and see that there is a lot of misinformation out there and it I was surprised to not find one website from a google search that told the purchaser what fatty acid chains MCT oil contained. The other option is a a GMO seed. The most commonly known example of this is canola. The seed is actually genetically modified to produce an oil that does not have specific fatty acids or to have more of specific fatty acids. It also might be worthwhile to mention that coconuts, for example, have different fatty acids depending on the variety they are and where they grow. For example, coconuts in parts of the Philippines will have 53-57% lauric acid and no Omega 6 fats at all. On the other hand coconuts in Indonesia generally have 46-49% lauric acid and 2-4% Omega 6 fatty acids. Mexico, Fiji, Samoa and Thailand are more like Indonesia. The Philippines is the only place where we have consistently seen the highest medium chain fatty acids in coconuts. So I do see some fats " eliminated " in some oils just because of where the coconuts come from and know that the process had nothing to do with it. I hope this answers you question. Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:23 AM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Hi Annette, Good to see you post here. I have a question for you. If an expeller pressed oil has its fatty acids removed, does that make it fractionated oil then? Thanks. > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend anyone. > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and there > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I liked > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 In some processes they may actually separate the glycerol component out but not when simply fractionating coconut oil. The major component (Lauric) is desired by the cosmetic industry and is separated out as a whole component. Fractionated coconut oil is a roughly 40/60 mix of the other major components, Capric and Caprylic acid. It is used in both cosmetics and as a nutritional supplement. In the nutrition world it is called MCT oil and has been in use for many years. All fractionation does in this process is separate the major components. I use MCT oil as part of my diet in conjunction with working out as is an instant energy supplement. Due to its nearly 100% saturated fat content it is highly stable and very hard to get to go bad. If you have tasted bad MCT oil then most likely someone is mixing their MCT/Fractionated coconut oil with another oil. As far as taste it is easily more palatable then a lot of the virgin coconut oils. The texture is what is hard for me to handle as I have trouble ingesting liquid oils by the spoonful (due to rancid cod liver oil as a kid) I have to add it to my smoothies. It is definitely up to the personal taste as some of my work out partners ingest it by spoon. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > > > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend > anyone. > > > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and > there > > > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > > > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > > > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I > liked > > > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > > > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 QFI does not hold any patents, as far as I know. The only link they have with the company in Indonesia is that Vina has been there and helped them fine tune the manufacture of their centrifuged coconut oil and a number of years ago they began signing yearly purchase agreements. The name of the company they purchase from is called First Grade, Intl., a division of Palau Sambu. The plant is called PT Kara Santan Pertama (KSP). Here is the about us page http://pulausambu.waytodeal.com/about If someone knows how to do a search for patents my guess is that it would be under Palau Sambu, the parent company, if there are any. My sources do not know of any patents that have been filed concerning their process and from my conversations with people who know there operation there is nothing special or patentable about it. Originally QFI purchased from a company in India. They worked with a new company and engineers there in 1999 and 2000. Three to four years later that fell apart and they found a company in Indonesia they worked with (the present company). Recently they have purchased from another company in Thailand. My assumption is that they were not able to get product they needed out of Indonesia this past winter because of the drought and the product in Thailand is very comparable. My purpose in writing this it to dispel the untruths of things that have been said. QFI does have a good coconut oil. One of the places they purchase from we also purchase from and in the past we have purchased coconut oil from QFI, though it was many years ago. However, people like Tony and others have good centrifuged coconut oil, as well. It compares handily with Quality First's Coco de Creme and in some ways might be considered better. For example, his lauric acid content is significantly higher as well as total medium chain fatty acids, because he in the Philippines not Indonesia. Both oils have a light coconut flavor and I believe that anyone who tasted both oils, side by side, would love them both. I hope I do not sound too harsh. Unfortunately have I strong opinions on coconut oils and have had the opportunity to taste over 100 different oils from manufacturers all over Asia and Central and South America. I have strived to separate out only the best coconut oils and think that any company, whether it is Tony in the Philippines or a small business man in Thailand or a large company in Indonesia have the right to be considered as having a good product if they work hard and perfect their processes. Warm Regards, Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of coconuttruth@... Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:49 AM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO The issue with the registered TMs/patents is that you have to know who it is registered under and where to find the number so that you can access the information. I am curious to see the exact process as well but even though they were kind enough to outline it for me the secret is in the details and like any good company QFI is mum on those secrets. I don't blame them though, I would do the same if I had a product that good. > > > > What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? > > > > Tony > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Please don't send any more e-mail to me as I won't be home for a while. Thank YOU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I understand why coconuttruth says that MCT oil is fractionated. When you go to the web and do searches there are tons of sites that say this as well. These sites are all commercial sites or people who think they are experts, but none of them are .edu .gov or .org sites. I can only find one place after searching through lots of Google pages that is correct based on the information given to me in the Philippines: " A fat molecule consists of a " backbone " of glycerol with three fatty acids attached. Manufacturers separate the fatty acids from the glycerol, or 'fractionate " the molecule. The individual fatty acids may be saturated or unsaturated, which determines characteristics such as melting point, stability, and consistency. Manufactures fractionate oils and then use the fatty acids that best meet their product needs and specifications; for example, to produce a food item that melts at mouth temperature but stays solid at a lower temperature, such as in your hand " . http://www.fcs.okstate.edu/cnep/ask/answers/palmoil.htm In the Asia you can purchase coconut oil that is made by various methods (some differentiate these oils by using terms such as centrifuged, cold pressed, expeller pressed or RBD, virgin and extra virgin). These are the coconut oils most people are familiar with. You can also purchase winterized coconut oil that has been chilled and had the stearic acid and other larger saturated fats removed. And you can purchase fractionated coconut oil and MCT oil. Coconut oil, winterized coconut oil, fractionated coconut oil and MCT oil are all different and have different spec sheets, are produced by different processes, taste different and are used for different purposes. However, if any ordinary citizen does a search on Google they will think that winterized coconut oil is the same as fractionated coconut which is the same as MCT oil. This is simply not true. I really do not want to argue and it is possible that the industry has changed their definition of oil fractionation where it applies to coconut oil, but that would surprise me. I have to admit that I am surprised at what I found when I searched the internet. It has been at least 6 years since I did a similar search and things have really changed. Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of coconuttruth@... Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:55 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO In some processes they may actually separate the glycerol component out but not when simply fractionating coconut oil. The major component (Lauric) is desired by the cosmetic industry and is separated out as a whole component. Fractionated coconut oil is a roughly 40/60 mix of the other major components, Capric and Caprylic acid. It is used in both cosmetics and as a nutritional supplement. In the nutrition world it is called MCT oil and has been in use for many years. All fractionation does in this process is separate the major components. I use MCT oil as part of my diet in conjunction with working out as is an instant energy supplement. Due to its nearly 100% saturated fat content it is highly stable and very hard to get to go bad. If you have tasted bad MCT oil then most likely someone is mixing their MCT/Fractionated coconut oil with another oil. As far as taste it is easily more palatable then a lot of the virgin coconut oils. The texture is what is hard for me to handle as I have trouble ingesting liquid oils by the spoonful (due to rancid cod liver oil as a kid) I have to add it to my smoothies. It is definitely up to the personal taste as some of my work out partners ingest it by spoon. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > > > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend > anyone. > > > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and > there > > > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > > > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > > > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I > liked > > > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > > > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I did some research and discovered why you are being so defensive. You are part owner of Wilderness and have a vested interest in Tony's company. This is not directed at any of the companies, and I am sad that you involved Tony in this. And I agree they have a right to state there oil is a good oil. That was never in dispute! I cannot say if what you said about the companies and places below is true but the Indonesian one is definitely the place that they have been getting Virgin Oil de Coco Créme from. This is due to the fact that they have the equipment, technology and expertise needed to make their oil. The fact is that it can't be made as pure any other way. I will point out that Coconut Oil, Virgin, Extra Virgin or De Coco Créme, cannot have a Lauric acid content higher than 50%. In fact, even the best made product will have 45-50% and no higher unless either the information is doctored or the product is doctored. This is why I am on these forums... There is no governing body that dictates what can and cannot be said about coconut oil in North America. It is a selling feature similar to the Contrast ratio on a new TV... http://gizmodo.com/259495/contrast-ratio-shoot+out-everyone-loses The Lauric acid is there just not the amounts they swear too. If you don't want to lose your credibility maybe refraining from half truths would be best. Unjustified claims like this are what make the FDA crazy and put watchdogs on companies.... Hmmmm.... Also please refrain from attacking a company that used to do provide you with your oil who then left to find cheaper oil elsewhere. It is a tad unseemly. > > > > > > What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I did not mean to attack any company and I did not mean to sound defensive. I am sorry if I came across as doing so. I am also not trying to promote any particular oil. I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion and preference. I have no ax to grind and am not trying to promote Tony or my company. Please notice that I have never even mentioned the name of our company nor tried to endorse any particular oil. The utube link I sent earlier was so people could see who Tony is and look at a little of his operation. I do feel that some of the things that have been said in this forum have not been entirely correct and that was all I was trying to address. I am still not able to address any health issues, but I can address information on processes or laboratory results. I am still under the microscope, so to speak. What I thought I was seeing in earlier posts is that there is only one coconut oil you would recommend and it is the best. Then I saw misinformation that went along with that endorsement. This is what bothered me and it was something that I could legally respond to. Since this may be the last time I write let me address two more issues: What you say about lauric acid content in coconut oil is definitely not correct. I have had analysis done on multiple samples of coconut oil from all kinds of producers and many different countries. I have watched processes from the beginning to the end and I have met many people in many different countries. I believe, based on all my investigations that (with virgin coconut oil) it has to do mainly with where the coconuts grow. The analytical results differ slightly from season to season and from one locality on the same island to another, but there is a consistent difference between the Philippines and other countries. There can also be variation from one laboratory to another. But I know that no one I have visited is doctoring their oil to get falsely inflated values. I even know that the University of the Philippines and the Philippine Coconut Authority have double checked several companies that claimed to have 54-57% lauric acid in their oil by auditing their processes and reanalyzing their product. They did this because of complaints from other countries and other producers. In the end they were amazed, but accepted that the laboratory analysis was correct. What I have stated about lauric acid is the simple honest truth as I know it. I have the evidence to prove my statements. Do you have any evidence to prove me wrong or to back up your statements? I have purchased coconut oil from Mexico, from Indonesia, Thailand and the Philippines. I do not have an agenda and I am not trying to tell everyone to purchase our coconut oil, Tony’s coconut oil or anyone else’s. I am not even trying to tell people to purchase from the Philippines or any particular country. I am just trying to give people information that I have collected over the years. The point I was trying to make is that there are number of good coconut oils, not just one. In addition, some people judge a good coconut oil one way and others will use different criteria. I do not think we should fight about it. I think we should state what we know and make sure we have the proof and not just an opinion if we are going to be adamant. And whatever people say, they should politely agree to disagree if they have different views and not label people as defensive or ascribe to them ulterior motives and then tell them their credibility is in jeopardy. Please notice that I am not doing that to you, though that would be very easy to do. Which brings me to another concern. It is not possible to say a coconut oil is pharmaceutical grade. In doing so, that makes it a drug, a regulated substance or a substance used in the making of pharmaceuticals and places it in a different category from food. A substance with that label must be a purified substance and have proper testing according to certain guidelines set by the FDA and pharmaceutical industry to prove it. This substance, if labeled as pharmaceutical grade, cannot be labeled a food. If any company were to make that claim in America they would have serious legal ramifications. It saddens me to see the statement of pharmaceutical purity used in posts as has been done. I have stated no half-truths that I am aware of. I have tried to be honest and the things I have said have been for the purpose of telling the truth. The things I have stated are based on facts and 12 years of being in this industry. I have not chimed in for many years and previously allowed mis-information go by without saying anything. Now in the last few days I have written with information. It has not appeared to be well received. Could someone please tell me if this group is ran by a few people with an agenda that are trying to promote certain ideas and certain products or certain companies? I honestly have no agenda and do not appreciate accusations to the contrary. I have not written in because I am trying to sell a product, though some of you may find that hard to believe. I would like to know how the moderator of this group feels about the current discussions and what some of the other members think. Thank you all for your time, Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of coconuttruth@... Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:44 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO I did some research and discovered why you are being so defensive. You are part owner of Wilderness and have a vested interest in Tony's company. This is not directed at any of the companies, and I am sad that you involved Tony in this. And I agree they have a right to state there oil is a good oil. That was never in dispute! I cannot say if what you said about the companies and places below is true but the Indonesian one is definitely the place that they have been getting Virgin Oil de Coco Créme from. This is due to the fact that they have the equipment, technology and expertise needed to make their oil. The fact is that it can't be made as pure any other way. I will point out that Coconut Oil, Virgin, Extra Virgin or De Coco Créme, cannot have a Lauric acid content higher than 50%. In fact, even the best made product will have 45-50% and no higher unless either the information is doctored or the product is doctored. This is why I am on these forums... There is no governing body that dictates what can and cannot be said about coconut oil in North America. It is a selling feature similar to the Contrast ratio on a new TV... http://gizmodo.com/259495/contrast-ratio-shoot+out-everyone-loses The Lauric acid is there just not the amounts they swear too. If you don't want to lose your credibility maybe refraining from half truths would be best. Unjustified claims like this are what make the FDA crazy and put watchdogs on companies.... Hmmmm.... Also please refrain from attacking a company that used to do provide you with your oil who then left to find cheaper oil elsewhere. It is a tad unseemly. > > > > > > What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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