Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 > > > Could someone please tell me if this group is ran by a few > people with an agenda that are trying to promote certain ideas > and certain products or certain companies? I don't believe so. This group is supposed to be an open forum where people can speak their minds with the moderators being as hands-off as possible. I'm pretty sure this group was created in response to the coconut group that was created and run by the Tropical Traditions guy, who heavily censored it and ran it with an iron fist. > I honestly have no agenda and do not appreciate accusations to > the contrary. I have not written in because I am trying to > sell a product, though some of you may find that hard to believe. > I would like to know how the moderator of this group feels about > the current discussions and what some of the other members think. To be perfectly honest, I thought this exchange was pretty tame. This group can get a bit rough'n'tumble at times... just look at all the love nibbles that Duncan and Dee sling at each other from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Dear Annette, Greetings from the Philippines ! Thank you very much for your patience to clarify such  technical physico-chemical aspects of fats and oils, citing coconut oil (lauric-rich MCFA) in your intensive elaboration.  With your explanations, I feel my understanding of the fatty acid profile of plant oils and " what,how and whys " of MCT and fractionated oils becomes clearer, indeed. I'm confident that many members of this e-forum would benefit from your knowledge-sharing initiative on this subject which I believe only one with adequate chemistry background and practice could well deeply cover. More Power and Cheers, Sev Magat ________________________________ From: Annette Fischer <afischer@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:16 AM Subject: RE: Re: Centrifuged VCO  Hello , The only times I am aware of a fatty acid being " removed " is with a winterizing process or by the use of GMO seed. Winterizing: A winterizing process occurs when an oil is chilled to a specific temperature so that the larger, longer saturated fats become solid. These solidified fats then fall to the bottom of the container and the liquid fats are decanted. A winterized coconut oil would not have any stearic acid (an 18 carbon saturated fat) and it may have little or no palmitic acid (a 16 carbon saturated fat). This makes the percentage of medium chain fatty acids higher. Winterization commonly occurs with fish oil, cod liver oil and palm oil. Winterization of these oils is commonly practiced and as far as I know all or almost all of these three oils are winterized even though the customer has no idea this was done. In all three oils they are eliminating Stearic acid and sometime palmitic acid. Coconut oil is available as a winterized product, but it is not widely available, especially in the US. I would be interested in knowing from people on the list if they would like a winterized coconut oil. It would cost a bit more than regular coconut oil, but it would solidify at a lower temperature and stay liquid more of the year. It is a very light delicate oil and is made up of over 95% medium chain fatty acids as compared to regular coconut oil that is 56-75% medium chain fatty acids and unlike MCT oil it contains lots of lauric acid. When MCT oil is produced they take coconut oil and fractionate it so the glycerol backbone is severed from the fatty acids. This process " breaks-up " the triglyceride. Then they separate out all the different fatty acids and select only the capric (8 carbon chain) and caprylic (10 carbon chain) acids. These two fatty acids are then reattached to glycerol molecules. When people say MCT oil is fractionated that is not totally correct because while the oil is initially fractionated to separate out the different sized chains, they are then recombined into triglycerides and no longer fractionated at the end. I did some looking on the web and see that there is a lot of misinformation out there and it I was surprised to not find one website from a google search that told the purchaser what fatty acid chains MCT oil contained. The other option is a a GMO seed. The most commonly known example of this is canola. The seed is actually genetically modified to produce an oil that does not have specific fatty acids or to have more of specific fatty acids. It also might be worthwhile to mention that coconuts, for example, have different fatty acids depending on the variety they are and where they grow. For example, coconuts in parts of the Philippines will have 53-57% lauric acid and no Omega 6 fats at all. On the other hand coconuts in Indonesia generally have 46-49% lauric acid and 2-4% Omega 6 fatty acids. Mexico, Fiji, Samoa and Thailand are more like Indonesia. The Philippines is the only place where we have consistently seen the highest medium chain fatty acids in coconuts. So I do see some fats " eliminated " in some oils just because of where the coconuts come from and know that the process had nothing to do with it. I hope this answers you question. Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:23 AM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Hi Annette, Good to see you post here. I have a question for you. If an expeller pressed oil has its fatty acids removed, does that make it fractionated oil then? Thanks. > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend anyone. > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and there > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I liked > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 I am sure that you have purchased oil from all those places. Many people have. I would like to see your test results of each of those products. The reason I ask is that I believe Vinia when she says it isn't very likely. Not only has she been in the industry much longer than you, she is a trained bio-chemist who has access to a laboratory at the near by, well renowned, university. She has had samples and bought many of in not all of those other of oils. Yes there are different strains of coconut and yes in different areas they have slightly different constituents but the Lauric acid doesn't seem to be one of them based on her experience and research. On top of that she picked a specific strain to use for Virgin Oil de Coco Créme based on that knowledge. That Duncan and I stated that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme was pharmaceutically pure doesn't make it a drug. Drugs are controlled substances that are produced for specific reasons. There are other needs in the pharmaceutical industry. For example delivery agents for certain topical medicines need to be pure, stable and have a long shelf life. Same goes for the bonding product in pills. They are pharmaceutically pure and not drugs. Pharmaceutically pure just means that it is ready for application without having to be further purified. I have no background in chemistry at all and I understand that. Tony seems to be very honest and in your video of his plant it even showed the expiry date of his product on the barrels. 1yr from the date it is made. I applaud that honesty, and I am glad that you don't make any claims about the shelf life of your product on your website. The purity of Virgin Oil de Coco Créme allows them to make the claim that it last 3 plus years without going rancid. The major differences between coconut oils isn't the constituents it is the taste, texture and purity. I, like you, have a personal opinion about virgin coconut oil and that is that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme is the best. It can stand on its laurels against all comers and has been doing it since the 1990's. Other oils come and go but it is here to stay. I challenge anyone to try it against their current brand. I am happy to say that I no longer have to search for a better coconut oil. > > > > > > > > What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? > > > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Annette, Thanks for taking the time to set the record straight on so many issues. Contrary to 's remarks I found you neither defensive nor offensive. Someone with your first hand experience in coconut oil production is just what we need on this list (in addition to Tony) in order to counter those whose only knowledge on the subject comes from talking on the phone to a marketing executive; and unless and until they can substantiate their rather incredible claims I suspect it will continue to fall on deaf ears. We're not all as dumb as they think we are so please keep posting. And thanks for fleshing out the info on fractionated oils. The information on the internet can be very confusing. If you do a search for MCT oil, for example, some just talk about un-fractionated coconut oil, some about the fractioned kind, and some both. If you search for fractionated oil, however, the only fractionated kind mentioned is the oil that's sold as MCT oil (capric, caprylic) - so thanks for the more detailed explanation. All the Best, Dee > > > > QFI does not hold any patents, as far as I know. The only link they have > > with the company in Indonesia is that Vina has been there and helped them > > fine tune the manufacture of their centrifuged coconut oil and a number of > > years ago they began signing yearly purchase agreements. The name of the > > company they purchase from is called First Grade, Intl., a division of > Palau > > Sambu. The plant is called PT Kara Santan Pertama (KSP). Here is the about > > us page http://pulausambu.waytodeal.com/about > > > > > > > > If someone knows how to do a search for patents my guess is that it would > be > > under Palau Sambu, the parent company, if there are any. My sources do not > > know of any patents that have been filed concerning their process and from > > my conversations with people who know there operation there is nothing > > special or patentable about it. Originally QFI purchased from a company in > > India. They worked with a new company and engineers there in 1999 and > 2000. > > Three to four years later that fell apart and they found a company in > > Indonesia they worked with (the present company). Recently they have > > purchased from another company in Thailand. My assumption is that they > were > > not able to get product they needed out of Indonesia this past winter > > because of the drought and the product in Thailand is very comparable. > > > > > > > > My purpose in writing this it to dispel the untruths of things that have > > been said. QFI does have a good coconut oil. One of the places they > > purchase from we also purchase from and in the past we have purchased > > coconut oil from QFI, though it was many years ago. However, people like > > Tony and others have good centrifuged coconut oil, as well. It compares > > handily with Quality First's Coco de Creme and in some ways might be > > considered better. For example, his lauric acid content is significantly > > higher as well as total medium chain fatty acids, because he in the > > Philippines not Indonesia. Both oils have a light coconut flavor and I > > believe that anyone who tasted both oils, side by side, would love them > > both. > > > > > > > > I hope I do not sound too harsh. Unfortunately have I strong opinions on > > coconut oils and have had the opportunity to taste over 100 different oils > > from manufacturers all over Asia and Central and South America. I have > > strived to separate out only the best coconut oils and think that any > > company, whether it is Tony in the Philippines or a small business man in > > Thailand or a large company in Indonesia have the right to be considered > as > > having a good product if they work hard and perfect their processes. > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > Annette > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Annette and Dee, Thank you so much for your reply. I am now confident that the expeller pressed oil i use for cooking still has lauric acid aside from caprylic and paric acids. I thought i knew much about vco... never ending new lessons gained from both of you. Thanks again. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been an observer of most of the conversations from this group and > > > have not written in for over 4 years. I hope this does not offend > anyone. > > > Please understand that we were under heavy surveillance by the FDA and > there > > > was very little I could write about anyway, even if I knew I could help > > > people. I had to live with the threat of losing our company and being > > > thrown in jail if I mentioned any alternative information, etc. But I > liked > > > to see the things people were saying and read about the topics that you > > > cover. Forgive me for not being able to participate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Okay, I guess I am just not use to that. I will have to grow some tougher skin. Thank you for giving me your insights. I truly appreciate it. Blessings, Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Stanley Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:14 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO > > > Could someone please tell me if this group is ran by a few > people with an agenda that are trying to promote certain ideas > and certain products or certain companies? I don't believe so. This group is supposed to be an open forum where people can speak their minds with the moderators being as hands-off as possible. I'm pretty sure this group was created in response to the coconut group that was created and run by the Tropical Traditions guy, who heavily censored it and ran it with an iron fist. > I honestly have no agenda and do not appreciate accusations to > the contrary. I have not written in because I am trying to > sell a product, though some of you may find that hard to believe. > I would like to know how the moderator of this group feels about > the current discussions and what some of the other members think. To be perfectly honest, I thought this exchange was pretty tame. This group can get a bit rough'n'tumble at times... just look at all the love nibbles that Duncan and Dee sling at each other from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 I truly appreciate your kind words and am happy to know there are people like you in this group. It is great to know that we are all in here to help each other. Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Dolores Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:19 AM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO Annette, Thanks for taking the time to set the record straight on so many issues. Contrary to 's remarks I found you neither defensive nor offensive. Someone with your first hand experience in coconut oil production is just what we need on this list (in addition to Tony) in order to counter those whose only knowledge on the subject comes from talking on the phone to a marketing executive; and unless and until they can substantiate their rather incredible claims I suspect it will continue to fall on deaf ears. We're not all as dumb as they think we are so please keep posting. And thanks for fleshing out the info on fractionated oils. The information on the internet can be very confusing. If you do a search for MCT oil, for example, some just talk about un-fractionated coconut oil, some about the fractioned kind, and some both. If you search for fractionated oil, however, the only fractionated kind mentioned is the oil that's sold as MCT oil (capric, caprylic) - so thanks for the more detailed explanation. All the Best, Dee > > > > QFI does not hold any patents, as far as I know. The only link they have > > with the company in Indonesia is that Vina has been there and helped them > > fine tune the manufacture of their centrifuged coconut oil and a number of > > years ago they began signing yearly purchase agreements. The name of the > > company they purchase from is called First Grade, Intl., a division of > Palau > > Sambu. The plant is called PT Kara Santan Pertama (KSP). Here is the about > > us page http://pulausambu.waytodeal.com/about > > > > > > > > If someone knows how to do a search for patents my guess is that it would > be > > under Palau Sambu, the parent company, if there are any. My sources do not > > know of any patents that have been filed concerning their process and from > > my conversations with people who know there operation there is nothing > > special or patentable about it. Originally QFI purchased from a company in > > India. They worked with a new company and engineers there in 1999 and > 2000. > > Three to four years later that fell apart and they found a company in > > Indonesia they worked with (the present company). Recently they have > > purchased from another company in Thailand. My assumption is that they > were > > not able to get product they needed out of Indonesia this past winter > > because of the drought and the product in Thailand is very comparable. > > > > > > > > My purpose in writing this it to dispel the untruths of things that have > > been said. QFI does have a good coconut oil. One of the places they > > purchase from we also purchase from and in the past we have purchased > > coconut oil from QFI, though it was many years ago. However, people like > > Tony and others have good centrifuged coconut oil, as well. It compares > > handily with Quality First's Coco de Creme and in some ways might be > > considered better. For example, his lauric acid content is significantly > > higher as well as total medium chain fatty acids, because he in the > > Philippines not Indonesia. Both oils have a light coconut flavor and I > > believe that anyone who tasted both oils, side by side, would love them > > both. > > > > > > > > I hope I do not sound too harsh. Unfortunately have I strong opinions on > > coconut oils and have had the opportunity to taste over 100 different oils > > from manufacturers all over Asia and Central and South America. I have > > strived to separate out only the best coconut oils and think that any > > company, whether it is Tony in the Philippines or a small business man in > > Thailand or a large company in Indonesia have the right to be considered > as > > having a good product if they work hard and perfect their processes. > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > Annette > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 From the description of the COCO Creme at http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/CVO.htm it sounds exactly like the Artisana brand coco oil. I got my jar out and yea, it fits the description to a T... Lucky me I guess I don't have to look any farther either... laura c. ________________________________ From: " coconuttruth@... " <coconuttruth@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thu, August 18, 2011 8:17:14 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO I am sure that you have purchased oil from all those places. Many people have. I would like to see your test results of each of those products. The reason I ask is that I believe Vinia when she says it isn't very likely. Not only has she been in the industry much longer than you, she is a trained bio-chemist who has access to a laboratory at the near by, well renowned, university. She has had samples and bought many of in not all of those other of oils. Yes there are different strains of coconut and yes in different areas they have slightly different constituents but the Lauric acid doesn't seem to be one of them based on her experience and research. On top of that she picked a specific strain to use for Virgin Oil de Coco Créme based on that knowledge. That Duncan and I stated that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme was pharmaceutically pure doesn't make it a drug. Drugs are controlled substances that are produced for specific reasons. There are other needs in the pharmaceutical industry. For example delivery agents for certain topical medicines need to be pure, stable and have a long shelf life. Same goes for the bonding product in pills. They are pharmaceutically pure and not drugs. Pharmaceutically pure just means that it is ready for application without having to be further purified. I have no background in chemistry at all and I understand that. Tony seems to be very honest and in your video of his plant it even showed the expiry date of his product on the barrels. 1yr from the date it is made. I applaud that honesty, and I am glad that you don't make any claims about the shelf life of your product on your website. The purity of Virgin Oil de Coco Créme allows them to make the claim that it last 3 plus years without going rancid. The major differences between coconut oils isn't the constituents it is the taste, texture and purity. I, like you, have a personal opinion about virgin coconut oil and that is that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme is the best. It can stand on its laurels against all comers and has been doing it since the 1990's. Other oils come and go but it is here to stay. I challenge anyone to try it against their current brand. I am happy to say that I no longer have to search for a better coconut oil. > > > > > > > > What do they use to extract the milk from the meat? > > > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 That's the claim in Canada. FDA guidelines don't apply, but Health Canada is about as active as the FDA. Here's the snip from the qualityfirst site: Advantages High purity: Pharmaceutical grade without refining. http://www.qualityfirst.on.ca/CVO.htm all good, Duncan > A substance with that label must be a > purified substance and have proper testing according to certain guidelines > set by the FDA and pharmaceutical industry to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Duncan, I hope samples Virgin Oil De Coco Creme will be available soon even to people like me who are just curious. :-) In what brands of VCO is it in? Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hi , The low level of lauric acid in QFI's Virgin De Coco Creme might be tied to the source of coconuts of the factory in Indonesia they are buying from - coming from the factory-owned 100,000 hectares coconut/pineapple plantation. They can easily verify this by testing lauric acid content in the fresh coconut meat. Related to this I have a friend who also have a VCO factory here in the Philippines, they had to test the lauric acid content of coconuts from different farm locations in his area before they settled on the location of their coconut supply from an area that gives at least 50% lauric acid content. He does not own the coconut farms so he has flexibility in coconut sourcing. Tony ________________________________ From: " coconuttruth@... " <coconuttruth@...>  I will point out that Coconut Oil, Virgin, Extra Virgin or De Coco Créme, cannot have a Lauric acid content higher than 50%. In fact, even the best made product will have 45-50% and no higher unless either the information is doctored or the product is doctored. This is why I am on these forums... There is no governing body that dictates what can and cannot be said about coconut oil in North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 , I think your statement below is better qualified as it is already becoming amusing. How do you form an opinion of Virgin Oil de Coco Creme as the best when it is impossible for you to have tested all VCO's available in our planet? How could it be possible to declare that it could stand against all comers when it is not yet known what are to come? Tony ________________________________ From: " coconuttruth@... " <coconuttruth@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO  I, like you, have a personal opinion about virgin coconut oil and that is that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme is the best. It can stand on its laurels against all comers and has been doing it since the 1990's. Other oils come and go but it is here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Tony, I think is referring to the fact that a higher standard of VCO extraction has been developed. Until other modern extraction methods are invented that yield results that approach Quality First International's patented process, the QFI product will remain the " best " by this measure. Individual tastes may certainly vary, but testing by lab analysis for pharmaceutical purity and deterioration would be useful things to know. all good, Duncan > > , > > I think your statement below is better qualified as it is already becoming amusing. How do you form an opinion of Virgin Oil de Coco Creme as the best when it is impossible for you to have tested all VCO's available in our planet? How could it be possible to declare that it could stand against all comers when it is not yet known what are to come? > > Tony > > > > ________________________________ > From: " coconuttruth@... " <coconuttruth@...> > Coconut Oil > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO > > >  > > > > I, like you, have a personal opinion about virgin coconut oil and that is that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme is the best. It can stand on its laurels against all comers and has been doing it since the 1990's. Other oils come and go but it is here to stay. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Er, Dee, the " marketing executive " you referred to is the biochemist inventor of the patented VCO extraction equipment. Vinia Marquez volunteered the topic of the patent; Dave and I didn't make it up and we tend to accept that she has that kind of expertise in-house given that the finished product undeniably exists and no other plant can produce it. If you can't find the patent (this applies also to Annette) or didn't bother to look for it, it is excusable, as patent searching is one specialty of a patent attorney and nobody expects you to do that kind of work or be an authority on it. all good, Duncan > > > > > > QFI does not hold any patents, as far as I know. The only link they have > > > with the company in Indonesia is that Vina has been there and helped them > > > fine tune the manufacture of their centrifuged coconut oil and a number of > > > years ago they began signing yearly purchase agreements. The name of the > > > company they purchase from is called First Grade, Intl., a division of > > Palau > > > Sambu. The plant is called PT Kara Santan Pertama (KSP). Here is the about > > > us page http://pulausambu.waytodeal.com/about > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone knows how to do a search for patents my guess is that it would > > be > > > under Palau Sambu, the parent company, if there are any. My sources do not > > > know of any patents that have been filed concerning their process and from > > > my conversations with people who know there operation there is nothing > > > special or patentable about it. Originally QFI purchased from a company in > > > India. They worked with a new company and engineers there in 1999 and > > 2000. > > > Three to four years later that fell apart and they found a company in > > > Indonesia they worked with (the present company). Recently they have > > > purchased from another company in Thailand. My assumption is that they > > were > > > not able to get product they needed out of Indonesia this past winter > > > because of the drought and the product in Thailand is very comparable. > > > > > > > > > > > > My purpose in writing this it to dispel the untruths of things that have > > > been said. QFI does have a good coconut oil. One of the places they > > > purchase from we also purchase from and in the past we have purchased > > > coconut oil from QFI, though it was many years ago. However, people like > > > Tony and others have good centrifuged coconut oil, as well. It compares > > > handily with Quality First's Coco de Creme and in some ways might be > > > considered better. For example, his lauric acid content is significantly > > > higher as well as total medium chain fatty acids, because he in the > > > Philippines not Indonesia. Both oils have a light coconut flavor and I > > > believe that anyone who tasted both oils, side by side, would love them > > > both. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I do not sound too harsh. Unfortunately have I strong opinions on > > > coconut oils and have had the opportunity to taste over 100 different oils > > > from manufacturers all over Asia and Central and South America. I have > > > strived to separate out only the best coconut oils and think that any > > > company, whether it is Tony in the Philippines or a small business man in > > > Thailand or a large company in Indonesia have the right to be considered > > as > > > having a good product if they work hard and perfect their processes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > > > Annette > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Oh, so now i see. I thought was like us, just consumers of vco. Now i know he has a direct link to QFI as its chemist. This is the impression i got from his first post. I was misled or probably misunderstood. > > > > > > > > QFI does not hold any patents, as far as I know. The only link they have > > > > with the company in Indonesia is that Vina has been there and helped them > > > > fine tune the manufacture of their centrifuged coconut oil and a number of > > > > years ago they began signing yearly purchase agreements. The name of the > > > > company they purchase from is called First Grade, Intl., a division of > > > Palau > > > > Sambu. The plant is called PT Kara Santan Pertama (KSP). Here is the about > > > > us page http://pulausambu.waytodeal.com/about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone knows how to do a search for patents my guess is that it would > > > be > > > > under Palau Sambu, the parent company, if there are any. My sources do not > > > > know of any patents that have been filed concerning their process and from > > > > my conversations with people who know there operation there is nothing > > > > special or patentable about it. Originally QFI purchased from a company in > > > > India. They worked with a new company and engineers there in 1999 and > > > 2000. > > > > Three to four years later that fell apart and they found a company in > > > > Indonesia they worked with (the present company). Recently they have > > > > purchased from another company in Thailand. My assumption is that they > > > were > > > > not able to get product they needed out of Indonesia this past winter > > > > because of the drought and the product in Thailand is very comparable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My purpose in writing this it to dispel the untruths of things that have > > > > been said. QFI does have a good coconut oil. One of the places they > > > > purchase from we also purchase from and in the past we have purchased > > > > coconut oil from QFI, though it was many years ago. However, people like > > > > Tony and others have good centrifuged coconut oil, as well. It compares > > > > handily with Quality First's Coco de Creme and in some ways might be > > > > considered better. For example, his lauric acid content is significantly > > > > higher as well as total medium chain fatty acids, because he in the > > > > Philippines not Indonesia. Both oils have a light coconut flavor and I > > > > believe that anyone who tasted both oils, side by side, would love them > > > > both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I do not sound too harsh. Unfortunately have I strong opinions on > > > > coconut oils and have had the opportunity to taste over 100 different oils > > > > from manufacturers all over Asia and Central and South America. I have > > > > strived to separate out only the best coconut oils and think that any > > > > company, whether it is Tony in the Philippines or a small business man in > > > > Thailand or a large company in Indonesia have the right to be considered > > > as > > > > having a good product if they work hard and perfect their processes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > > > > > Annette > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 , Are you saying that you now believe that is QFI's chemist? That is not my understanding, but if he is he can correct me. As for Vinia - she has claimed to both Duncan and (by phone) that she is the biochemist inventor of the patented VCO extraction equipment. That has yet to be substantiated (both her status and the patent). Do a google search for Vinia Marquez and nothing comes up other than that she is their vice president and marketing executive. Best, Dee > > > > > > > > > > QFI does not hold any patents, as far as I know. The only link they have > > > > > with the company in Indonesia is that Vina has been there and helped them > > > > > fine tune the manufacture of their centrifuged coconut oil and a number of > > > > > years ago they began signing yearly purchase agreements. The name of the > > > > > company they purchase from is called First Grade, Intl., a division of > > > > Palau > > > > > Sambu. The plant is called PT Kara Santan Pertama (KSP). Here is the about > > > > > us page http://pulausambu.waytodeal.com/about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone knows how to do a search for patents my guess is that it would > > > > be > > > > > under Palau Sambu, the parent company, if there are any. My sources do not > > > > > know of any patents that have been filed concerning their process and from > > > > > my conversations with people who know there operation there is nothing > > > > > special or patentable about it. Originally QFI purchased from a company in > > > > > India. They worked with a new company and engineers there in 1999 and > > > > 2000. > > > > > Three to four years later that fell apart and they found a company in > > > > > Indonesia they worked with (the present company). Recently they have > > > > > purchased from another company in Thailand. My assumption is that they > > > > were > > > > > not able to get product they needed out of Indonesia this past winter > > > > > because of the drought and the product in Thailand is very comparable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My purpose in writing this it to dispel the untruths of things that have > > > > > been said. QFI does have a good coconut oil. One of the places they > > > > > purchase from we also purchase from and in the past we have purchased > > > > > coconut oil from QFI, though it was many years ago. However, people like > > > > > Tony and others have good centrifuged coconut oil, as well. It compares > > > > > handily with Quality First's Coco de Creme and in some ways might be > > > > > considered better. For example, his lauric acid content is significantly > > > > > higher as well as total medium chain fatty acids, because he in the > > > > > Philippines not Indonesia. Both oils have a light coconut flavor and I > > > > > believe that anyone who tasted both oils, side by side, would love them > > > > > both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I do not sound too harsh. Unfortunately have I strong opinions on > > > > > coconut oils and have had the opportunity to taste over 100 different oils > > > > > from manufacturers all over Asia and Central and South America. I have > > > > > strived to separate out only the best coconut oils and think that any > > > > > company, whether it is Tony in the Philippines or a small business man in > > > > > Thailand or a large company in Indonesia have the right to be considered > > > > as > > > > > having a good product if they work hard and perfect their processes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Annette > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 To restate 's words, he has had personal interviews with the inventor at their offices. Vinia Marquez has been approachable and forthcoming with the information so far so I'd expect that asking her about the patent just might bring results; after all, the patent is registered in the public domain for a reason. If you were building equipment you'd hire a patent attorney to look up the patent in question and all the rest (at great expense) before you'd go ahead and develop it. A patent is a protectable business position and only those on the list who plan to develop extraction equipment need to know it. Current methods are so dissimilar that nobody on the list needs these details today. Even though there's not much there to interest a retail customer, if anyone gets the patent number please post it? all good, Duncan > > , > As for Vinia - she has claimed to both Duncan and (by phone) that she is the biochemist inventor of the patented VCO extraction equipment. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Duncan, I think you do not get what was saying. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 1:41 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO  Tony, I think is referring to the fact that a higher standard of VCO extraction has been developed. Until other modern extraction methods are invented that yield results that approach Quality First International's patented process, the QFI product will remain the " best " by this measure. Individual tastes may certainly vary, but testing by lab analysis for pharmaceutical purity and deterioration would be useful things to know. all good, Duncan > > , > > I think your statement below is better qualified as it is already becoming amusing. How do you form an opinion of Virgin Oil de Coco Creme as the best when it is impossible for you to have tested all VCO's available in our planet? How could it be possible to declare that it could stand against all comers when it is not yet known what are to come? > > Tony > > > > ________________________________ > From: " coconuttruth@... " <coconuttruth@...> > Coconut Oil > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO > > >  > > > > I, like you, have a personal opinion about virgin coconut oil and that is that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme is the best. It can stand on its laurels against all comers and has been doing it since the 1990's. Other oils come and go but it is here to stay. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think I understand that basically said what I did, the outcome is the best he knows of and that it and the process that makes it sets the bar pretty high even among VCO brands. His quote: " > > I, like you, have a personal opinion about virgin coconut oil and that is that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme is the best. It can stand on its laurels against all comers and has been doing it since the 1990's. Other oils come and go but it is here to stay. " Until someone comes up with another new extraction technique that competes with it, QFI's Virgin Oil de Coco Creme will be the VCO to beat in a competitive connoisseur market. They also have several other grades of CO including " virgin 2 " , and other coconut products. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, I think you do not get what was saying. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The US patent and trademark website it here: http://patft.uspto.gov/ The website is set up to do searches on all patents. It is heavily utilized by patent lawyers. All you have to do is type in key words. This is one of the main places all patent attorneys go to search for patents. My brother is a patent lawyer. He has been filing patents for companies like IBM, Clearwire Communications, and others for many years. Based on what I have told him, it is very likely the process is not patentable. I was quite certain there was no patent filed on their process. This was based on my conversations with people who know the family that owns the plant. I know Vinia does not hold the patent because they have nothing to do with the plant in Indonesia except that they have had purchase agreements with them. Though it is possible for there to be a patent filed in Indonesia and maybe other parts of Asia but not in the US, it is unlikely. The US is the best place to file a patent for many, many reasons. I looked extensively on the US Patent and Trademark website. I now am even more certain that there is no patent. I hope others will look too. If anyone can find it, please send the group the link. It would be interesting to the group, I believe, if the people who are adamant that QFI's coconut oil is the " best of the best " and state that they " have tried all the oils out there " , would tell us exactly what coconut oils they have tried and describe how the other oils are different and inferior. Please do not tell us what Vinia says, we want to know the names of the oils you have personally used and what you liked or did not like about them. I am honestly quite curious to find out this information. Annette From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Duncan Crow Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:36 AM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO To restate 's words, he has had personal interviews with the inventor at their offices. Vinia Marquez has been approachable and forthcoming with the information so far so I'd expect that asking her about the patent just might bring results; after all, the patent is registered in the public domain for a reason. If you were building equipment you'd hire a patent attorney to look up the patent in question and all the rest (at great expense) before you'd go ahead and develop it. A patent is a protectable business position and only those on the list who plan to develop extraction equipment need to know it. Current methods are so dissimilar that nobody on the list needs these details today. Even though there's not much there to interest a retail customer, if anyone gets the patent number please post it? all good, Duncan > > , > As for Vinia - she has claimed to both Duncan and (by phone) that she is the biochemist inventor of the patented VCO extraction equipment. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Duncan, Your best VCO, QFI's Virgin Coco Creme, has been with you for 5 years yet you have not been able to finish consuming it. You also indicated in your previous posts that you use VCO rarely. In other words, your personal experience on VCO is limited. How could one sensibly profess grand statements of best quality of one VCO against other VCO's, out of such a limited experience? I still dont think this is the level of experience behind the great posts on Somali GHP undenatured whey. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:24 AM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO  I think I understand that basically said what I did, the outcome is the best he knows of and that it and the process that makes it sets the bar pretty high even among VCO brands. His quote: " > > I, like you, have a personal opinion about virgin coconut oil and that is that Virgin Oil de Coco Créme is the best. It can stand on its laurels against all comers and has been doing it since the 1990's. Other oils come and go but it is here to stay. " Until someone comes up with another new extraction technique that competes with it, QFI's Virgin Oil de Coco Creme will be the VCO to beat in a competitive connoisseur market. They also have several other grades of CO including " virgin 2 " , and other coconut products. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, I think you do not get what was saying. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Tony, I bought a pound of organic deodorised coconut oil that last week at the supermarket, and I have been using MCT oil for 2 weeks. I don't have any five-year-old coconut oil. Quality First invites side-by-side taste tests with any VCO and its Virgin Oil de Coco Creme. The patented process makes oil that can be easily distinguished from to the rest of the VCO pack because the light volatiles are fully preserved. I like the flavour and I like its pharmaceutical purity; I used it up myself in about 9 months before switching to mainly butter because my wife doesn't like coconut. I'm sure your VCO is good because it is produced with no heat outside of expeller pressing. Several people on-list have good oil, but QFI's new extraction process is different from the pack though because it CATEGORICALLY makes more pure oil than any other process, and it does it in one pass. The need to patent such a process is outside your experience and mine, but tasting the oil reveals its distinguishing features and I have tasted the oil. It seems distinguished all right. Like I said, some vendors blend some of QFI's oil with their own to make it taste better so they must agree. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, > > Your best VCO, QFI's Virgin Coco Creme, has been with you for 5 years yet you have not been able to finish consuming it. You also indicated in your previous posts that you use VCO rarely. In other words, your personal experience on VCO is limited. How could one sensibly profess grand statements of best quality of one VCO against other VCO's, out of such a limited experience? > > > I still dont think this is the level of experience behind the great posts on Somali GHP undenatured whey. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Great news for me Duncan that you bought a pound of coconut oil. I hope you are able to use it. May I share that from my observations there is much more to discover in VCO from actually using it than from what current scientific data could provide. I can say that here in the Philippines, we have a deep understanding about use of the oil, moreso in rural areas, but still limited scientific data that can explain its health benefits (we have vast scientific data on coconut agriculture though). We are very much grateful to US-based scientists and researchers, as well as from other scientifically-advanced countries, for providing scientific data that increasingly explains our historical experiences with the oil. I would like to suggest that you try also the VCO in addition to the RBD coconut oil that you bought. There is informally observed difference between VCO and RBD coconut oil perceived among my friends here in the Philippines that is still not possible to clearly explain. Taking about 4 spoonfuls of VCO helps stop onset of flu, but taking RBD coconut oil does not. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:05 PM Subject: Re: Centrifuged VCO  Tony, I bought a pound of organic deodorised coconut oil that last week at the supermarket, and I have been using MCT oil for 2 weeks. I don't have any five-year-old coconut oil. Quality First invites side-by-side taste tests with any VCO and its Virgin Oil de Coco Creme. The patented process makes oil that can be easily distinguished from to the rest of the VCO pack because the light volatiles are fully preserved. I like the flavour and I like its pharmaceutical purity; I used it up myself in about 9 months before switching to mainly butter because my wife doesn't like coconut. I'm sure your VCO is good because it is produced with no heat outside of expeller pressing. Several people on-list have good oil, but QFI's new extraction process is different from the pack though because it CATEGORICALLY makes more pure oil than any other process, and it does it in one pass. The need to patent such a process is outside your experience and mine, but tasting the oil reveals its distinguishing features and I have tasted the oil. It seems distinguished all right. Like I said, some vendors blend some of QFI's oil with their own to make it taste better so they must agree. all good, Duncan > > Duncan, > > Your best VCO, QFI's Virgin Coco Creme, has been with you for 5 years yet you have not been able to finish consuming it. You also indicated in your previous posts that you use VCO rarely. In other words, your personal experience on VCO is limited. How could one sensibly profess grand statements of best quality of one VCO against other VCO's, out of such a limited experience? > > > I still dont think this is the level of experience behind the great posts on Somali GHP undenatured whey. > > Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Tony, as I said I used to use Virgin Oil de Coco Creme from Qualityfirst.on.ca. Today I actually prefer the deodorised oil; I can hide it in more foods and simply take MCT oil for its own properties. I use colloidal silver for the flu. all good, Duncan > > Great news for me Duncan that you bought a pound of coconut oil. I hope you are able to use it. May I share that from my observations there is much more to discover in VCO from actually using it than from what current scientific data could provide. I can say that here in the Philippines, we have a deep understanding about use of the oil, moreso in rural areas, but still limited scientific data that can explain its health benefits (we have vast scientific data on coconut agriculture though). We are very much grateful to US-based scientists and researchers, as well as from other scientifically-advanced countries, for providing scientific data that increasingly explains our historical experiences with the oil. > > I would like to suggest that you try also the VCO in addition to the RBD coconut oil that you bought. There is informally observed difference between VCO and RBD coconut oil perceived among my friends here in the Philippines that is still not possible to clearly explain. Taking about 4 spoonfuls of VCO helps stop onset of flu, but taking RBD coconut oil does not. > > Tony > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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