Re: Fermented and Pickled Foods

[Guest guest]

Why don't you make your own whey? It's super easy and you can use the whey to

make all kinds of other fermented goods, not to mention getting the benefits of

the yogurt or kefir.

--Leah

>

> Can't disagree with you Jim, and I am adding more fermented food into my

diet..

> but I think I will look for foods high in Omega 3s..  and give my digestive

> system time to heal. And Fermented CLO is pricy....     Anyway, am trying

> Duncan's suggestion of undenatured whey.. should be delivered today...  so

> that's my experimental budget for the month. 

>

> Oh yea, any value in pickled foods, like beets, onions ect....

>

>     

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Huuman <huuman60@...>

> Coconut Oil

> Sent: Fri, August 5, 2011 12:51:38 PM

> Subject: Re: Fish Oil vs Coconut Oil/MCT oil

>

>  

> :

>

> My experience is that fermented things always have a leg up on fresh.

> So yes...

>

> Jim

>

> >Have you tried fermented cod liver oil? it's expensive, but supposed

> to be superior to all other fish oils in terms of vitamins, esp bio

> available Vit A & D. Since it's fermented, I'd think it would be more

> digestible<

>

> Can't

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-08-06 2:49 PM, Leah <wenandleah@...> wrote:

> Why don't you make your own whey? It's super easy and you can use the

> whey to make all kinds of other fermented goods, not to mention getting

> the benefits of the yogurt or kefir.

Homemade whey is about as far from a good quality whey protein isolate

as - well, raw jersey cream is from water...

You'd have to drink dozens of gallons of homemade whey to get the same

benefits from two scoops of whey protein.

[Guest guest]

How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Leah <wenandleah@...> wrote:

>

> Why don't you make your own whey? It's super easy and you can use the whey

> to make all kinds of other fermented goods, not to mention getting the

> benefits of the yogurt or kefir.

>

> --Leah

>

>

> >

> > Can't disagree with you Jim, and I am adding more fermented food into my

> diet..

> > but I think I will look for foods high in Omega 3s.. and give my

> digestive

> > system time to heal. And Fermented CLO is pricy....    Anyway, am

> trying

> > Duncan's suggestion of undenatured whey.. should be delivered

> today...  so

> > that's my experimental budget for the month.Â

> >

> > Oh yea, any value in pickled foods, like beets, onions ect....

> >

> > Â Â Â Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: Huuman <huuman60@...>

> > Coconut Oil

> > Sent: Fri, August 5, 2011 12:51:38 PM

> > Subject: Re: Fish Oil vs Coconut Oil/MCT oil

> >

> > Â

> > :

> >

> > My experience is that fermented things always have a leg up on fresh.

> > So yes...

> >

> > Jim

> >

> > >Have you tried fermented cod liver oil? it's expensive, but supposed

> > to be superior to all other fish oils in terms of vitamins, esp bio

> > available Vit A & D. Since it's fermented, I'd think it would be more

> > digestible<

> >

> > Can't

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Whey is a byproduct of yogurt or milk kefir. Those are both really easy to make

(for milk kefir you need mk grains). The whey separates from the solids and you

strain it out and make all kinds of goodies. you can also use it to soak grains

to neutralize some of the phytic acids. There are probably tons of recipes

online. If you buy raw milk, you can leave it out on the counter for a day and

it will separate into curds and whey, which you can strain out and make cream

cheese and use the whey.

Leah

>

> How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly Leah, and raw liquid whey is healthy, but about 10 gallons of raw whey

go into a single glass of whey shake made from whey concentrate.

all good,

Duncan

> >

> > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, I remember milk curdling on the counter when I was a kid but what was

the whey? The liquid portion? Thanks, Sylvia

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Leah <wenandleah@...> wrote:

> Whey is a byproduct of yogurt or milk kefir. Those are both really easy to

> make (for milk kefir you need mk grains). The whey separates from the solids

> and you strain it out and make all kinds of goodies. you can also use it to

> soak grains to neutralize some of the phytic acids. There are probably tons

> of recipes online. If you buy raw milk, you can leave it out on the counter

> for a day and it will separate into curds and whey, which you can strain out

> and make cream cheese and use the whey.

>

> Leah

>

>

> >

> > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sylvia,

What they did on the farm in Iowa is let fresh milk sit on the counter for

4-6 hours and often it was served with bread. Sometimes it was an afternoon

or evening snack. This was called clabbered milk. This is also a

traditional fermented milk in many rural areas in Europe, even today. My

guess is this is what you are referring to, but it is not whey.

Whey is the light yellow liquid " by-product " from cheese making or other

curd formation from the fermentation of milk. If you have never made

cottage cheese, yogurt or cheese in your home then the only thing I can

think of that you might have experienced is store bought yogurt that has a

light yellow liquid on the top. If that yogurt is placed in a cheese bag

this liquid will drip out and that whey can be used to culture vegetables or

make cultured beverages. Cottage cheese is made by culturing/fermenting the

milk, straining out the whey and then adding back in cream. And when you

make fresh cheese the whey is strained out before the curds are pressed into

blocks to make the cheese. So the only whey I can think of in our modern

world is the whey you see in store bought yogurt.

Annette

From: Coconut Oil

[mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of SYLVIA PRICE

Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:23 AM

Coconut Oil

Subject: Re: Re: Fermented and Pickled Foods

Ok, I remember milk curdling on the counter when I was a kid but what was

the whey? The liquid portion? Thanks, Sylvia

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Leah <wenandleah@...

<mailto:wenandleah%40> > wrote:

> Whey is a byproduct of yogurt or milk kefir. Those are both really easy to

> make (for milk kefir you need mk grains). The whey separates from the

solids

> and you strain it out and make all kinds of goodies. you can also use it

to

> soak grains to neutralize some of the phytic acids. There are probably

tons

> of recipes online. If you buy raw milk, you can leave it out on the

counter

> for a day and it will separate into curds and whey, which you can strain

out

> and make cream cheese and use the whey.

>

> Leah

>

>

> >

> > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, I can get fresh milk where I live but the liquid under the clabbered

milk is *not* whey? Thanks, Sylvia

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Annette Fischer <

afischer@...> wrote:

> Sylvia,

>

>

>

> What they did on the farm in Iowa is let fresh milk sit on the counter for

> 4-6 hours and often it was served with bread. Sometimes it was an

> afternoon

> or evening snack. This was called clabbered milk. This is also a

> traditional fermented milk in many rural areas in Europe, even today. My

> guess is this is what you are referring to, but it is not whey.

>

>

>

> Whey is the light yellow liquid " by-product " from cheese making or other

> curd formation from the fermentation of milk. If you have never made

> cottage cheese, yogurt or cheese in your home then the only thing I can

> think of that you might have experienced is store bought yogurt that has a

> light yellow liquid on the top. If that yogurt is placed in a cheese bag

> this liquid will drip out and that whey can be used to culture vegetables

> or

> make cultured beverages. Cottage cheese is made by culturing/fermenting

> the

> milk, straining out the whey and then adding back in cream. And when you

> make fresh cheese the whey is strained out before the curds are pressed

> into

> blocks to make the cheese. So the only whey I can think of in our modern

> world is the whey you see in store bought yogurt.

>

>

>

> Annette

>

>

>

> From: Coconut Oil

> [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of SYLVIA PRICE

> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:23 AM

> Coconut Oil

> Subject: Re: Re: Fermented and Pickled Foods

>

>

>

>

>

> Ok, I remember milk curdling on the counter when I was a kid but what was

> the whey? The liquid portion? Thanks, Sylvia

>

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Leah <wenandleah@...

> <mailto:wenandleah%40> > wrote:

>

> > Whey is a byproduct of yogurt or milk kefir. Those are both really easy

> to

> > make (for milk kefir you need mk grains). The whey separates from the

> solids

> > and you strain it out and make all kinds of goodies. you can also use it

> to

> > soak grains to neutralize some of the phytic acids. There are probably

> tons

> > of recipes online. If you buy raw milk, you can leave it out on the

> counter

> > for a day and it will separate into curds and whey, which you can strain

> out

> > and make cream cheese and use the whey.

> >

> > Leah

> >

> >

> > >

> > > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sylvia,

I never drank/ate clabbered milk that had set long enough to form curds whey

that separated. If separation is occurring, then the clear liquid under the

clabber is whey. Curds are composed mainly of proteins and fats. The milk

has become acidified by the bacteria fermenting it and this forms the curds.

The whey will have lots of water and some proteins that do not form into the

curds. It is generally a clear and slightly yellow liquid. The whey and

the curds will both contain microorganisms that caused the acidifying.

Annette

From: Coconut Oil

[mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of SYLVIA PRICE

Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:58 PM

Coconut Oil

Subject: Re: Re: Fermented and Pickled Foods

Hmmm, I can get fresh milk where I live but the liquid under the clabbered

milk is *not* whey? Thanks, Sylvia

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Annette Fischer <

afischer@...

<mailto:afischer%40wildernessfamilynaturals.com> > wrote:

> Sylvia,

>

>

>

> What they did on the farm in Iowa is let fresh milk sit on the counter for

> 4-6 hours and often it was served with bread. Sometimes it was an

> afternoon

> or evening snack. This was called clabbered milk. This is also a

> traditional fermented milk in many rural areas in Europe, even today. My

> guess is this is what you are referring to, but it is not whey.

>

>

>

> Whey is the light yellow liquid " by-product " from cheese making or other

> curd formation from the fermentation of milk. If you have never made

> cottage cheese, yogurt or cheese in your home then the only thing I can

> think of that you might have experienced is store bought yogurt that has a

> light yellow liquid on the top. If that yogurt is placed in a cheese bag

> this liquid will drip out and that whey can be used to culture vegetables

> or

> make cultured beverages. Cottage cheese is made by culturing/fermenting

> the

> milk, straining out the whey and then adding back in cream. And when you

> make fresh cheese the whey is strained out before the curds are pressed

> into

> blocks to make the cheese. So the only whey I can think of in our modern

> world is the whey you see in store bought yogurt.

>

>

>

> Annette

>

>

>

> From: Coconut Oil

<mailto:Coconut Oil%40>

> [mailto:Coconut Oil

<mailto:Coconut Oil%40> ] On Behalf Of SYLVIA

PRICE

> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:23 AM

> Coconut Oil

<mailto:Coconut Oil%40>

> Subject: Re: Re: Fermented and Pickled Foods

>

>

>

>

>

> Ok, I remember milk curdling on the counter when I was a kid but what was

> the whey? The liquid portion? Thanks, Sylvia

>

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Leah <wenandleah@...

<mailto:wenandleah%40>

> <mailto:wenandleah%40> > wrote:

>

> > Whey is a byproduct of yogurt or milk kefir. Those are both really easy

> to

> > make (for milk kefir you need mk grains). The whey separates from the

> solids

> > and you strain it out and make all kinds of goodies. you can also use it

> to

> > soak grains to neutralize some of the phytic acids. There are probably

> tons

> > of recipes online. If you buy raw milk, you can leave it out on the

> counter

> > for a day and it will separate into curds and whey, which you can strain

> out

> > and make cream cheese and use the whey.

> >

> > Leah

> >

> >

> > >

> > > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On 2011-08-18 3:49 PM, Annette Fischer

<afischer@...> wrote:

> I never drank/ate clabbered milk that had set long enough to form curds whey

> that separated. If separation is occurring, then the clear liquid under the

> clabber is whey. Curds are composed mainly of proteins and fats. The milk

> has become acidified by the bacteria fermenting it and this forms the curds.

> The whey will have lots of water and some proteins that do not form into the

> curds. It is generally a clear and slightly yellow liquid. The whey and

> the curds will both contain microorganisms that caused the acidifying.

It goes without saying that you should *only* attempt to make your own

curds/whey with *raw* (ie, UNpasteurized) milk. Pasteurized milk will

not make curds and whey if left out on the table for hours, it will make

a poisonous concoction that is more likely to KILL you than anything else.

[Guest guest]

Okay Duncan, but what kind of whey do they use? Does it come from yogurt or

kefir, which has been reported to have 10-100X the probiotics of yogurt? Do they

use whey that has come from cultured homogenized milk or raw, which has

exponentially more probiotic compounds present itself, thus magnifying it even

more?

I doubt a whey protein that has been powdered will have the nutritional benefits

of the real, whole, full product that has been freshly made. I guess it depends

on the benefits you're trying to get, but I have much more confidence in a whole

food that can be made in a traditional way than something that has to be

manufactured so I can get " 100 times " the benefit of the natural product.

--Leah

> > >

> > > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Also I don't know how your whey protein is made, but most powdered substances

derived from milk are heated to high temperatures, which forms rancid trans fats

that are more harm than good. I don't really trust them. (not to mention the

main benefit of whey in my book is the probiotics, which must be mostly if not

all killed off in powders).

--Leah

> > >

> > > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Leah, yes, probiotics do not magnify glutathione precursors in whey; the

glutathione increase is a benefit provided by concentrating the whey.

You clabber the milk with the acidity of a natural bacterial slurry and rennett,

and companies clabber the milk faster with a similar organic acid or rennett,

depending on the type of cheese being made. In that respect whey is still a

natural product and whichever method you use to dry it out should be low

temperature so it retains its natural virtue, but concentrated.

80% of milk solids is casein; if removed from the milk the whey solids remain.

Casein doesn't provide glutathione precursors but the whey solids do. 5-10

gallons of liquid whey contains enough solids for a good serving but even 5

gallons is too much liquid for humans, and many people use three servings of

concentrated whey or more. Nonetheless, whey is widely acknowledged as a healthy

choice.

Many see cow casein as a waste fraction of milk, something to be avoided for

health reasons. Cow casein causes acidity for example just like other proteins

do but whey protein does not. Cow casein is also difficult to digest and is the

main reason people get indigestion from " dairy " . Whey solids on the other hand

are easily assimilated almost without digestion and reactions are rare

particularly when using an isolate, even among severely milk-sensitive

individuals.

Here's more information about casein reaction:

<http://www.google.com/search?q=casein+warning+OR+indigestion+OR+reaction+OR+rea\

ctivity+OR+allergy+OR+allergic+-gluten>

Regardless, if you're in North America radiation in milk should cause concern;

some articles point out it can be concentrated in milk:

http://enenews.com

I get my whey from New Zealand now, and I can only hope it's a 100 times better

choice than whey from North America.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Okay Duncan, but what kind of whey do they use? Does it come from yogurt or

kefir, which has been reported to have 10-100X the probiotics of yogurt? Do they

use whey that has come from cultured homogenized milk or raw, which has

exponentially more probiotic compounds present itself, thus magnifying it even

more?

>

> I doubt a whey protein that has been powdered will have the nutritional

benefits of the real, whole, full product that has been freshly made. I guess it

depends on the benefits you're trying to get, but I have much more confidence in

a whole food that can be made in a traditional way than something that has to be

manufactured so I can get " 100 times " the benefit of the natural product.

>

> --Leah

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for clarifying that. It's what I thought, so I must have

misunderstood what else was being said. Sylvia

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Annette Fischer <

afischer@...> wrote:

> Sylvia,

>

>

>

> I never drank/ate clabbered milk that had set long enough to form curds

> whey

> that separated. If separation is occurring, then the clear liquid under

> the

> clabber is whey. Curds are composed mainly of proteins and fats. The milk

> has become acidified by the bacteria fermenting it and this forms the

> curds.

> The whey will have lots of water and some proteins that do not form into

> the

> curds. It is generally a clear and slightly yellow liquid. The whey and

> the curds will both contain microorganisms that caused the acidifying.

>

>

>

> Annette

>

>

>

> From: Coconut Oil

> [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of SYLVIA PRICE

> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:58 PM

> Coconut Oil

> Subject: Re: Re: Fermented and Pickled Foods

>

>

>

>

>

> Hmmm, I can get fresh milk where I live but the liquid under the clabbered

> milk is *not* whey? Thanks, Sylvia

>

> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Annette Fischer <

> afischer@...

> <mailto:afischer%40wildernessfamilynaturals.com> > wrote:

>

> > Sylvia,

> >

> >

> >

> > What they did on the farm in Iowa is let fresh milk sit on the counter

> for

> > 4-6 hours and often it was served with bread. Sometimes it was an

> > afternoon

> > or evening snack. This was called clabbered milk. This is also a

> > traditional fermented milk in many rural areas in Europe, even today. My

> > guess is this is what you are referring to, but it is not whey.

> >

> >

> >

> > Whey is the light yellow liquid " by-product " from cheese making or other

> > curd formation from the fermentation of milk. If you have never made

> > cottage cheese, yogurt or cheese in your home then the only thing I can

> > think of that you might have experienced is store bought yogurt that has

> a

> > light yellow liquid on the top. If that yogurt is placed in a cheese bag

> > this liquid will drip out and that whey can be used to culture vegetables

> > or

> > make cultured beverages. Cottage cheese is made by culturing/fermenting

> > the

> > milk, straining out the whey and then adding back in cream. And when you

> > make fresh cheese the whey is strained out before the curds are pressed

> > into

> > blocks to make the cheese. So the only whey I can think of in our modern

> > world is the whey you see in store bought yogurt.

> >

> >

> >

> > Annette

> >

> >

> >

> > From: Coconut Oil

> <mailto:Coconut Oil%40>

> > [mailto:Coconut Oil

> <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> ] On Behalf Of SYLVIA

> PRICE

> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:23 AM

> > Coconut Oil

> <mailto:Coconut Oil%40>

> > Subject: Re: Re: Fermented and Pickled Foods

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Ok, I remember milk curdling on the counter when I was a kid but what was

> > the whey? The liquid portion? Thanks, Sylvia

> >

> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Leah <wenandleah@...

> <mailto:wenandleah%40>

> > <mailto:wenandleah%40> > wrote:

> >

> > > Whey is a byproduct of yogurt or milk kefir. Those are both really easy

> > to

> > > make (for milk kefir you need mk grains). The whey separates from the

> > solids

> > > and you strain it out and make all kinds of goodies. you can also use

> it

> > to

> > > soak grains to neutralize some of the phytic acids. There are probably

> > tons

> > > of recipes online. If you buy raw milk, you can leave it out on the

> > counter

> > > for a day and it will separate into curds and whey, which you can

> strain

> > out

> > > and make cream cheese and use the whey.

> > >

> > > Leah

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > How do you do that? Make your own whey? Sylvia

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >