Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-13 5:40 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Just got my latest numbers for the cholesterol after a concerted

> effort eating VCO and MCT... since the last test

>

> The LDL went up 2 pts... 90 to 92

>

> The HDL went up 4 pts.. 55 to 59

>

> Triglycerides were like 37 or 47 I forget...

You do realize that taking those tests is a *total* waste of time,

energy and especially *focus*.

You'd be doing much better to just *forget* about them, and start

focusing on achieving health.

Hint: perfect health has absolutely *nothing* to do with your

cholesterol levels - meaning, it is possible to be in perfect health

*and* have high cholesterol.

[Guest guest]

My point was simply that VCO and MCT don't raise cholesterol levels and seem to

help the good HDL levels.

My PCP is nutty about this test, so rather than fight her, I let her do it...

although I am going to ask her not to repeat the test for a while.

C.

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 6:08:29 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-13 5:40 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Just got my latest numbers for the cholesterol after a concerted

> effort eating VCO and MCT... since the last test

>

> The LDL went up 2 pts... 90 to 92

>

> The HDL went up 4 pts.. 55 to 59

>

> Triglycerides were like 37 or 47 I forget...

You do realize that taking those tests is a *total* waste of time,

energy and especially *focus*.

You'd be doing much better to just *forget* about them, and start

focusing on achieving health.

Hint: perfect health has absolutely *nothing* to do with your

cholesterol levels - meaning, it is possible to be in perfect health

*and* have high cholesterol.

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 7:35 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> My PCP is nutty about this test, so rather than fight her, I let her do

> it...

And some people wonder why medical costs have skyrocketed out of control...

> although I am going to ask her not to repeat the test for a while.

Or maybe find another (naturopathic) doctor that understands real health

and sound medicine?

[Guest guest]

You know, sometimes there are reasons people don't run off to doctors that are

naturopathic, such as severe lack of money to pay for it or the protocols they

prescribe.

Unfortunately our Medical system has evolved to be one that only caters to the

sick and not to being healthy. I am, by necessity, stuck in the sick care

system and do my absolute best, within my limitations, to eat as well as I can

and find the supplements I can afford that really do me some good and exercise

as much as I can.

Thanks,

C.

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 8:30:33 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-14 7:35 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> My PCP is nutty about this test, so rather than fight her, I let her do

> it...

And some people wonder why medical costs have skyrocketed out of control...

> although I am going to ask her not to repeat the test for a while.

Or maybe find another (naturopathic) doctor that understands real health

and sound medicine?

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 9:38 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> You know, sometimes there are reasons people don't run off to

> doctors that are naturopathic, such as severe lack of money to pay

> for it or the protocols they prescribe.

I haven't been to *any* doctor in over 20 years...

It amazes me that some people seem to think it is a requirement to go on

a regular basis...

The only time I would go is in case of emergency (trauma, like a car

accident, about the only area where our 'modern medicine' really

shines), or poisoning, or maybe (highly unlikely) some massive infection

that gets out of control too quickly for me to handle myself (the last

time I went was either for a severe case of 'swimmers ear', or when I

had some kidney stones (was drinking a lot of cokes at the time), but

both were very long ago and can't remember which was actually last).

[Guest guest]

Then you are very lucky with your health... I wish I had been.

Lousy Genes from my father's side of the family. And as many problems as I have,

I am the healthiest of the 4 of us because I do my best to take charge of my

health and I am on the fewest medications and hope to drop another one in a

month and limit another to emergencies, of which I hope there will not be any.

I have hopes for the MSM to help me do that.

Still, need the doctor. Wish I didn't!

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 10:11:09 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-14 9:38 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> You know, sometimes there are reasons people don't run off to

> doctors that are naturopathic, such as severe lack of money to pay

> for it or the protocols they prescribe.

I haven't been to *any* doctor in over 20 years...

It amazes me that some people seem to think it is a requirement to go on

a regular basis...

The only time I would go is in case of emergency (trauma, like a car

accident, about the only area where our 'modern medicine' really

shines), or poisoning, or maybe (highly unlikely) some massive infection

that gets out of control too quickly for me to handle myself (the last

time I went was either for a severe case of 'swimmers ear', or when I

had some kidney stones (was drinking a lot of cokes at the time), but

both were very long ago and can't remember which was actually last).

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 10:20 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Then you are very lucky with your health... I wish I had been.

>

> Lousy Genes from my father's side of the family. And as many

> problems as I have, I am the healthiest of the 4 of us because I do

> my best to take charge of my health and I am on the fewest

> medications and hope to drop another one in a month and limit another

> to emergencies, of which I hope there will not be any. I have hopes

> for the MSM to help me do that.

>

> Still, need the doctor. Wish I didn't!

I disagree... drugs do not solve health problems, and never will.

Most people have far more 'luck' when they take charge of their own

health and fire the doctors. I know it can be a scary thought for some,

but... well, there it is...

[Guest guest]

Since you have never dealt with ill health to any great degree how would you

Know what you can and cannot accomplish on your own?

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 10:36:29 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-14 10:20 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Then you are very lucky with your health... I wish I had been.

>

> Lousy Genes from my father's side of the family. And as many

> problems as I have, I am the healthiest of the 4 of us because I do

> my best to take charge of my health and I am on the fewest

> medications and hope to drop another one in a month and limit another

> to emergencies, of which I hope there will not be any. I have hopes

> for the MSM to help me do that.

>

> Still, need the doctor. Wish I didn't!

I disagree... drugs do not solve health problems, and never will.

Most people have far more 'luck' when they take charge of their own

health and fire the doctors. I know it can be a scary thought for some,

but... well, there it is...

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 11:33 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Since you have never dealt with ill health to any great degree

Says who?

> how would you Know what you can and cannot accomplish on your own?

Experience... and experience helping others...

[Guest guest]

Tanstaafl,

Not all modern medicine is malignant and not all alternative health is benign.

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 11:52:05 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-14 11:33 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Since you have never dealt with ill health to any great degree

Says who?

> how would you Know what you can and cannot accomplish on your own?

Experience... and experience helping others...

[Guest guest]

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

 

I haven't been to *any* doctor in over 20 years...

I can relate to that.  I have not been to any doctor for 21 years, with God's

grace and mercy. The last illness was chicken pox.

Tony

_._,_.___

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[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 7:23 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Tanstaafl,

>

> Not all modern medicine is malignant and not all alternative health is

> benign.

I agree, but fail to understand your point.

Modern medicine is simply not equipped to deal with chronic health

condition brought on by poor lifestyle choices (including honest

mistakes, like going strictly vegetarian for years (likely including

lots of soy, which we all now know is NOT the health food it is claimed

to be by the powers that be) and destroying your health when you thought

you were doing good for yourself).

You cannot achieve 'health' by taking drugs or having surgery,, and that

is what 'modern medicine' is all about. It is awesome for trauma

situations, and there's nowhere I'd rather be than a modern emergency

room after I'm physically damaged in an accident of some kind.

[Guest guest]

My point is that neither is infallible, both can help and both can kill. I

don't fully trust either path especially when taken to excess.

Your examples of vegans and soy is one.

And my sister's medicine chest is another. Both excessive.

I take, regularly, two prescriptions, Levoxyl and Plaquenil. I tried Armour

thryroid, but it didn't work for me at all, I actually became worse on it. The

plaquenil, for better or worse, took care of some crippling muscle spasms in my

hands and feet that nothing I tried from both sides of the aisle worked, and

believe me I tried for 5 years. You think the MSM might have some effect on

that?

I have managed to get myself off of 1/2 dozen other meds because I agree, they

aren't always useful, at best a temporary fix, but pharmaceuticals can

literally be life preserving for some.

On the alternative side, I swear by Vitamin D and probiotics. I am trying NAC

for lung function but frankly don't see much improvement there, and Duncan's

whey didn't work for me either. But I do plan on trying again later after I

have been on the MSM for awhile.

So now its MSM... My first marker will be if it takes care of my hip pain. But

I can't see any value in taking much more than 16 to 20 grams and that much for

only a short time. The body can only handle so much of it at a time. I am

starting on 12 grams today.

Diet, exercise and I am going with Aristotle on this one, " moderation in all

things " .

So I don't get why some of you take so much stuff and I don't see the " mental "

difference from someone who won't take anything the Doc didn't prescribe to

someone who takes just about everything that might have some effect on one's

health.

And finally, sometimes, in spite of everything you do to keep healthy you can

get sick. You could end up with cancer or some organ failure for no fathomable

reason.

I am so glad some of you have managed to avoid doctors for decades but I can't

help but wonder, and you can't prove that no matter what you did or didn't do,

you may have stayed healthy anyway.

Genetics do play a strong role in the health of an organism. I know my

grandmother did little and I certainly never saw her exercise or even walk

regularly, but she stayed healthy for decades, only having issue in the last few

years, and died at 92. That I would call genetics or it could be because she

never learned how to drive a car. Yea I know a complete non sequitor or just

less stress in her life. Interesting note, all her brothers died in their 50s

of heart failure. All the sisters lived into their 90s and one did make it to

102 or so.

Maybe had she been more into health she could have lived to 102.. don't know.

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 7:32:13 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-14 7:23 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Tanstaafl,

>

> Not all modern medicine is malignant and not all alternative health is

> benign.

I agree, but fail to understand your point.

Modern medicine is simply not equipped to deal with chronic health

condition brought on by poor lifestyle choices (including honest

mistakes, like going strictly vegetarian for years (likely including

lots of soy, which we all now know is NOT the health food it is claimed

to be by the powers that be) and destroying your health when you thought

you were doing good for yourself).

You cannot achieve 'health' by taking drugs or having surgery,, and that

is what 'modern medicine' is all about. It is awesome for trauma

situations, and there's nowhere I'd rather be than a modern emergency

room after I'm physically damaged in an accident of some kind.

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-15 8:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> My point is that neither is infallible, both can help and both can

> kill.

And my point was that nothing that I have said could be construed

otherwise...

> I take, regularly, two prescriptions, Levoxyl and Plaquenil. I tried

> Armour thryroid, but it didn't work for me at all, I actually became

> worse on it. The plaquenil, for better or worse, took care of some

> crippling muscle spasms in my hands and feet that nothing I tried

> from both sides of the aisle worked, and believe me I tried for 5

> years. You think the MSM might have some effect on that?

Muscle spasms are usually caused by an electrolyte imbalance (usually

too much or too little of any one or more of sodium, potassium,

magnesium and/or calcium).

MSM might help some, but I've never seen 'muscle spasms' as anything it

is intended to help.

> I have managed to get myself off of 1/2 dozen other meds because I

> agree, they aren't always useful, at best a temporary fix, but

> pharmaceuticals can literally be life preserving for some.

I disagree emphatically, and this is likely the root cause or your problems.

Drugs CAN NOT - EVER - cure any disease, all they can do is alleviate

symptoms. One possible exception to this (depending on your definition

of 'disease' and 'cure') is the use of anti-biotics for some kind of

life threatening infection (like pneumonia), but that is not really a

'disease', it fits more in the definition of 'trauma'.

But regardless, the main problems with them (drugs) is they usually

cause a whole host of *other* problems ('symptoms', that the doctors

call 'side-effects'), which results in another prescription, which

results in another set of 'symptoms', etc etc ad nauseum.

Judging from all of the meds you are saying you are or have been on, I'd

say it is most likely the meds themselves that have caused most of your

problems, and unless/until you can come to realize this, you're doomed

to stay on that treadmill until you die (like millions of people in the

last century have already - there is a special place in hell reserved to

the people responsible for this situation).

> On the alternative side, I swear by Vitamin D and probiotics. I am

> trying NAC for lung function but frankly don't see much improvement

> there, and Duncan's whey didn't work for me either. But I do plan on

> trying again later after I have been on the MSM for awhile.

As long as you are taking all of those prescription drugs, you are far

less likely to see any decent results with the natural methods, because

the drugs are causing you more damage/problems than the good the natural

methods can possibly keep up with.

> So now its MSM... My first marker will be if it takes care of my hip

> pain. But I can't see any value in taking much more than 16 to 20

> grams and that much for only a short time. The body can only handle

> so much of it at a time. I am starting on 12 grams today.

And as long as you take this attitude of deliberate ignorance, you will

never see the results we, who have taken the leap and tried the

mega-dosing, have achieved.

For most things, yes, mega-dosing is a bad idea - but sometimes, it can

work near miracles (vitamin c is another exception)...

[Guest guest]

Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever... so how can drugs be

causing the problems. And now I am only on two and you claim those the are

causing all my problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you mentioned... tried

them all, was tested for all those mineral levels and tried numerous

alternatives including supplementation of the minerals in question .... didn't

help a bit.

No comment about the fact you might be healthy inspite of everything you do? My

grandma was... Nor any comment on the fact you could, inspite of everything you

do, still get cancer or some other deadly disease?

I am still, not convinced about the need for mega doses of anything... including

vitamin C....and if you must it should only be for a short period of time. I

do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but we now have the

ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long so it could make up for it.

MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for muscles?... so

much crap on the internet it is hard to figure out what is good reporting and

what is just sales techniques. And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to

sell their drugs too.

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 9:18:46 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-15 8:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> My point is that neither is infallible, both can help and both can

> kill.

And my point was that nothing that I have said could be construed

otherwise...

> I take, regularly, two prescriptions, Levoxyl and Plaquenil. I tried

> Armour thryroid, but it didn't work for me at all, I actually became

> worse on it. The plaquenil, for better or worse, took care of some

> crippling muscle spasms in my hands and feet that nothing I tried

> from both sides of the aisle worked, and believe me I tried for 5

> years. You think the MSM might have some effect on that?

Muscle spasms are usually caused by an electrolyte imbalance (usually

too much or too little of any one or more of sodium, potassium,

magnesium and/or calcium).

MSM might help some, but I've never seen 'muscle spasms' as anything it

is intended to help.

> I have managed to get myself off of 1/2 dozen other meds because I

> agree, they aren't always useful, at best a temporary fix, but

> pharmaceuticals can literally be life preserving for some.

I disagree emphatically, and this is likely the root cause or your problems.

Drugs CAN NOT - EVER - cure any disease, all they can do is alleviate

symptoms. One possible exception to this (depending on your definition

of 'disease' and 'cure') is the use of anti-biotics for some kind of

life threatening infection (like pneumonia), but that is not really a

'disease', it fits more in the definition of 'trauma'.

But regardless, the main problems with them (drugs) is they usually

cause a whole host of *other* problems ('symptoms', that the doctors

call 'side-effects'), which results in another prescription, which

results in another set of 'symptoms', etc etc ad nauseum.

Judging from all of the meds you are saying you are or have been on, I'd

say it is most likely the meds themselves that have caused most of your

problems, and unless/until you can come to realize this, you're doomed

to stay on that treadmill until you die (like millions of people in the

last century have already - there is a special place in hell reserved to

the people responsible for this situation).

> On the alternative side, I swear by Vitamin D and probiotics. I am

> trying NAC for lung function but frankly don't see much improvement

> there, and Duncan's whey didn't work for me either. But I do plan on

> trying again later after I have been on the MSM for awhile.

As long as you are taking all of those prescription drugs, you are far

less likely to see any decent results with the natural methods, because

the drugs are causing you more damage/problems than the good the natural

methods can possibly keep up with.

> So now its MSM... My first marker will be if it takes care of my hip

> pain. But I can't see any value in taking much more than 16 to 20

> grams and that much for only a short time. The body can only handle

> so much of it at a time. I am starting on 12 grams today.

And as long as you take this attitude of deliberate ignorance, you will

never see the results we, who have taken the leap and tried the

mega-dosing, have achieved.

For most things, yes, mega-dosing is a bad idea - but sometimes, it can

work near miracles (vitamin c is another exception)...

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle choices

(whether through ignorance or lack of caring is irrelevant).

> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

> And now I am only on two and you claim those the are causing all my

> problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

Who knows? At this point I personally have very little to go on.

> And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you

> mentioned... tried them all, was tested for all those mineral levels

> and tried numerous alternatives including supplementation of the

> minerals in question .... didn't help a bit.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard that, only to find out the

tests weren't done right, or were the wrong ones, or you used an

inferior/incorrect product to try to remedy the problem, etc...

> No comment about the fact you might be healthy in spite of everything

> you do? My grandma was...

Yes, it is possible for good genes to let your body take a huge amount

of punishment before it starts to degrade, but that doesn't mean it will

last forever. The damage will be passed on to the children, and the

genetic line will get weaker and weaker with each generation.

> Nor any comment on the fact you could, in spite of everything you do,

> still get cancer or some other deadly disease?

The only time this would be true is if you were exposed to an unnatural

level of some highly toxic substance (radiation? chemicals?)...

Otherwise, disease can only manifest itself if given the opportunity

through long term poor lifestyle choices - and eating the S.A.D is the

biggest one, followed by ignorance (eating lots of soy thinking it is

healthy, etc)...

> I am still, not convinced about the need for mega doses of

> anything... including vitamin C.... and if you must it should only be

> for a short period of time.

We have looked in the mirror and discovered our worst enemy - ourself.

Your lack of being convinced doesn't make it any less true, just like

the person convinced they can fly will still go splat if they jump off a

cliff.

> I do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but we

> now have the ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long so it

> could make up for it.

Not a chance.

> MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for

> muscles?... so much crap on the internet it is hard to figure out

> what is good reporting and what is just sales techniques.

Eh? It can work near miracles for certain problems (joints mainly, which

are *not* 'muscles'), but that doesn't mean it will do the same for

*everything*. Get a grip.

> And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to sell their drugs

> too.

Methinks you have it backwards... it is the 'natural health industry'

that has adopted *some* of the tactics (marketing hype) of the drug

companies (who have been engaging in far worse that marketing hype, like

terrorist tactics ever since the dawn of the AMA).

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-15 10:35 AM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...> wrote:

> On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote:

>> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

> Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle choices

> (whether through ignorance or lack of caring is irrelevant).

>> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

> By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

Oh - and you've never heard of some drug actually *causing* the very

thing it is designed to 'cure'? What world are you living in? That

happens *all the time*.

[Guest guest]

Eminently sensible approach,

Chuck

Favorite motto of old tool and die makers and machinists:

Illegitimi non tatum carborundum!*

*Don't let the bastards grind you down.

On 9/15/2011 8:16:18 AM, Cody (lecody2001@...) wrote:

> My point is that neither is infallible, both can help and both can kill.

> I

> don't fully trust either path especially when taken to excess.

>

>

> Your examples of vegans and soy is one.

> And my sister's

> medicine chest is another. Both excessive.

>

> I take, regularly, two prescriptions, Levoxyl and Plaquenil. I tried

> Armour

> thryroid, but it

> didn't work for me at all, I actually became worse on it. The

> plaquenil, for better or worse, took care of some crippling muscle spasms in

my

> hands and feet that nothing I tried from both sides of the aisle worked, and

> believe me I tried for 5 years. You think the MSM might have some effect on

> that?

>

> I have managed to get myself off of 1/2 dozen other meds because I agree, they

> aren't

> always useful, at best a temporary fix, but pharmaceuticals can

> literally be life preserving for some.

>

>

> On the alternative side, I swear by Vitamin D and probiotics. I am trying

> NAC

> for lung function but frankly

> don't see much improvement there, and Duncan's

> whey

> didn't work for me either. But I do plan on trying again later after I

> have been on th

[Guest guest]

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 10:35:59 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle choices

(whether through ignorance or lack of caring is irrelevant).

Ok, possibly, personally I think it was having kids that did it.

> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

> And now I am only on two and you claim those the are causing all my

> problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

Who knows? At this point I personally have very little to go on.

Ya, well I have had decades trying to figure this out so I doubt you could

anyway.

> And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you

> mentioned... tried them all, was tested for all those mineral levels

> and tried numerous alternatives including supplementation of the

> minerals in question .... didn't help a bit.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard that, only to find out the

tests weren't done right, or were the wrong ones, or you used an

inferior/incorrect product to try to remedy the problem, etc...

The usual excuse...blame the victim.

Could it be possible that I am smart enough to get the best supplements?

By the way, did you know that one company manufactures 95% of the vitamin E in

the USA?

> No comment about the fact you might be healthy in spite of everything

> you do? My grandma was...

Yes, it is possible for good genes to let your body take a huge amount

of punishment before it starts to degrade, but that doesn't mean it will

last forever. The damage will be passed on to the children, and the

genetic line will get weaker and weaker with each generation.

I have heard that one too... seriously not true. That is what sex is for. To

weed out the damaged genes. True, doesn't always work, but families don't weaken

over generations unless there is some serious inbreeding.

> Nor any comment on the fact you could, in spite of everything you do,

> still get cancer or some other deadly disease?

The only time this would be true is if you were exposed to an unnatural

level of some highly toxic substance (radiation? chemicals?)...

Doesn't take much to damage living organism so I doubt it takes much to damage

DNA.

Otherwise, disease can only manifest itself if given the opportunity

through long term poor lifestyle choices - and eating the S.A.D is the

biggest one, followed by ignorance (eating lots of soy thinking it is

healthy, etc)...

> I am still, not convinced about the need for mega doses of

> anything... including vitamin C.... and if you must it should only be

> for a short period of time.

We have looked in the mirror and discovered our worst enemy - ourself.

Fine but mostly your feeding bacteria and viruses and assorted parasites, I

suppose there is some good in that. Keeps them happy.

Your lack of being convinced doesn't make it any less true, just like

the person convinced they can fly will still go splat if they jump off a

cliff.

> I do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but we

> now have the ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long so it

> could make up for it.

Not a chance.

And you know this how?

> MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for

> muscles?... so much crap on the internet it is hard to figure out

> what is good reporting and what is just sales techniques.

Eh? It can work near miracles for certain problems (joints mainly, which

are *not* 'muscles'), but that doesn't mean it will do the same for

*everything*. Get a grip.

That's not what the dozens of websites I have read claim....

http://www.msm-info.com/

This one claims MSM is a muscle relaxant.. ergo, should it not ease muscle

spasms? Even a little bit? If not, it should cure the raynaud's...as it

dialates blood vessels... let you know this winter...

The types of pain which has been treated successfully with MSM include:

* Personal injury due to accidents, burns, etc.

* Osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis

* Fibromyalgia

* Lower back pains

* Headaches, migraines

* Muscle aches

* Bursitis

* Tennis elbows and other local sprots injuries

* Carpal Syndrome

* Sclerosis;

* Whiplash

* RSI (Repititive Strain Injury);

* Scars due to burns, operations, accidents, etc.The way MSM impacts

pain is currently explained by the following mechanisms:

* MSM is a natural analgetic: it blocks the transfer of pain impulses

through nerve fibers (C-fibers).

* MSM blocks inflammations and inflammatory processes. MSM enhances

the activity of cortisol, a natural anti-inflammatory hormone produced

by the body.

* MSM improves the permeability of cell membranes. This improves the

uptake of nutrients and many vitamins and the elimination of waste

products and excess cellular fluids.

* MSM dilates bloood vessels, enhancing the blood circulation. This,

too, helps to eliminate waste products from the body, which speeds up

healing.

* MSM is a muscle relaxant. This is an important and often overlooked

benefit of MSM. Many chronic pains are aggrevated by chronic muscle

tension in the body.

* MSM aids the natural defense mechanisms in the body by regulating

the prostaglandin metabolism, and regulates the formation of

anitbodies and immune complexes.

MSM slows down and restores crosslinking in collagen. Crosslinking in

collagen is a natural process in scar formation, causing hard and often

painful scar tissues. Particularly in the case of burn scars, in which

large surface areas may be affected, this may lead to chronic pain. MSM

heals scar tissue which makes the skin more flexible. Dramatic examples

are known of people who have treated burn scars with a MSM ointment and

have seen their scars almost disappear and have eliminated associated

pains.

> And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to sell their drugs

> too.

Methinks you have it backwards... it is the 'natural health industry'

that has adopted *some* of the tactics (marketing hype) of the drug

companies (who have been engaging in far worse that marketing hype, like

terrorist tactics ever since the dawn of the AMA).

Well it used to be Pharma could not advertise... but there were plenty of

hucksters trying to sell miracle cures for everything, so I think I have it

right. People have been selling the latest tonic for just about forever.

I applaud you faith in the " natural health industry " and your acknowledgement

that it is an industry and would not be as big as it is if not for modern

medicine and researchers that managed to come up with ways to mass manufacture

all the stuff you buy. So its starting to be difficult to even tell where one

ends and the other begins.

I just choose to walk the border between modern medicine and old medicine.

Honestly, do you really think you need all that resveratrol? [just as an

example, not claiming you take it, please substitute it for something you do

take]

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone......I have been taking coconut oil (3 tablespoons/day)for about 6

months and just had my labs drawn.  Cholesterol (120)....... HDL (55) way up,

(LDL: 82) way down and triglycerides (84) way down. I'm convinced its the

coconut oil. I'm sold and my Doctor is very please with the results since I'm a

63 year old diabetic on an insulin pump.

From: Cody <lecody2001@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:42 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

 

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 10:35:59 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle choices

(whether through ignorance or lack of caring is irrelevant).

Ok, possibly, personally I think it was having kids that did it.

> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

> And now I am only on two and you claim those the are causing all my

> problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

Who knows? At this point I personally have very little to go on.

Ya, well I have had decades trying to figure this out so I doubt you could

anyway.

> And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you

> mentioned... tried them all, was tested for all those mineral levels

> and tried numerous alternatives including supplementation of the

> minerals in question .... didn't help a bit.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard that, only to find out the

tests weren't done right, or were the wrong ones, or you used an

inferior/incorrect product to try to remedy the problem, etc...

The usual excuse...blame the victim.

Could it be possible that I am smart enough to get the best supplements?

By the way, did you know that one company manufactures 95% of the vitamin E in

the USA?

> No comment about the fact you might be healthy in spite of everything

> you do? My grandma was...

Yes, it is possible for good genes to let your body take a huge amount

of punishment before it starts to degrade, but that doesn't mean it will

last forever. The damage will be passed on to the children, and the

genetic line will get weaker and weaker with each generation.

I have heard that one too... seriously not true. That is what sex is for. To

weed out the damaged genes. True, doesn't always work, but families don't weaken

over generations unless there is some serious inbreeding.

> Nor any comment on the fact you could, in spite of everything you do,

> still get cancer or some other deadly disease?

The only time this would be true is if you were exposed to an unnatural

level of some highly toxic substance (radiation? chemicals?)...

Doesn't take much to damage living organism so I doubt it takes much to damage

DNA.

Otherwise, disease can only manifest itself if given the opportunity

through long term poor lifestyle choices - and eating the S.A.D is the

biggest one, followed by ignorance (eating lots of soy thinking it is

healthy, etc)...

> I am still, not convinced about the need for mega doses of

> anything... including vitamin C.... and if you must it should only be

> for a short period of time.

We have looked in the mirror and discovered our worst enemy - ourself.

Fine but mostly your feeding bacteria and viruses and assorted parasites, I

suppose there is some good in that. Keeps them happy.

Your lack of being convinced doesn't make it any less true, just like

the person convinced they can fly will still go splat if they jump off a

cliff.

> I do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but we

> now have the ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long so it

> could make up for it.

Not a chance.

And you know this how?

> MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for

> muscles?... so much crap on the internet it is hard to figure out

> what is good reporting and what is just sales techniques.

Eh? It can work near miracles for certain problems (joints mainly, which

are *not* 'muscles'), but that doesn't mean it will do the same for

*everything*. Get a grip.

That's not what the dozens of websites I have read claim....

http://www.msm-info.com/

This one claims MSM is a muscle relaxant.. ergo, should it not ease muscle

spasms? Even a little bit? If not, it should cure the raynaud's...as it

dialates blood vessels... let you know this winter...

The types of pain which has been treated successfully with MSM include:

* Personal injury due to accidents, burns, etc.

* Osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis

* Fibromyalgia

* Lower back pains

* Headaches, migraines

* Muscle aches

* Bursitis

* Tennis elbows and other local sprots injuries

* Carpal Syndrome

* Sclerosis;

* Whiplash

* RSI (Repititive Strain Injury);

* Scars due to burns, operations, accidents, etc.The way MSM impacts

pain is currently explained by the following mechanisms:

* MSM is a natural analgetic: it blocks the transfer of pain impulses

through nerve fibers (C-fibers).

* MSM blocks inflammations and inflammatory processes. MSM enhances

the activity of cortisol, a natural anti-inflammatory hormone produced

by the body.

* MSM improves the permeability of cell membranes. This improves the

uptake of nutrients and many vitamins and the elimination of waste

products and excess cellular fluids.

* MSM dilates bloood vessels, enhancing the blood circulation. This,

too, helps to eliminate waste products from the body, which speeds up

healing.

* MSM is a muscle relaxant. This is an important and often overlooked

benefit of MSM. Many chronic pains are aggrevated by chronic muscle

tension in the body.

* MSM aids the natural defense mechanisms in the body by regulating

the prostaglandin metabolism, and regulates the formation of

anitbodies and immune complexes.

MSM slows down and restores crosslinking in collagen. Crosslinking in

collagen is a natural process in scar formation, causing hard and often

painful scar tissues. Particularly in the case of burn scars, in which

large surface areas may be affected, this may lead to chronic pain. MSM

heals scar tissue which makes the skin more flexible. Dramatic examples

are known of people who have treated burn scars with a MSM ointment and

have seen their scars almost disappear and have eliminated associated

pains.

> And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to sell their drugs

> too.

Methinks you have it backwards... it is the 'natural health industry'

that has adopted *some* of the tactics (marketing hype) of the drug

companies (who have been engaging in far worse that marketing hype, like

terrorist tactics ever since the dawn of the AMA).

Well it used to be Pharma could not advertise... but there were plenty of

hucksters trying to sell miracle cures for everything, so I think I have it

right. People have been selling the latest tonic for just about forever.

I applaud you faith in the " natural health industry " and your acknowledgement

that it is an industry and would not be as big as it is if not for modern

medicine and researchers that managed to come up with ways to mass manufacture

all the stuff you buy. So its starting to be difficult to even tell where one

ends and the other begins.

I just choose to walk the border between modern medicine and old medicine.

Honestly, do you really think you need all that resveratrol? [just as an

example, not claiming you take it, please substitute it for something you do

take]

[Guest guest]

Your replies were virtually indistinguishable from my comments - maybe

you could benefit from learning how to quote in an email discussion?

Hint: watch me/my posts...

On 2011-09-15 3:42 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> On 9/15/11 10:35:59 AM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... said:

>> On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote:

>>> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

>> Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle

>> choices (whether through ignorance or lack of caring is

>> irrelevant).

> Ok, possibly, personally I think it was having kids that did it.

Having kids won't *cause* health problems (aside from the occasional act

of god like a breech birth, etc), but because it is so stressful on the

body's systems, it can be a *trigger* - ie, in the vein of 'the straw

that broke the camels back'.

>>> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

>> By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

>>> And now I am only on two and you claim those the are causing all

>>> my problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

>> Who knows? At this point I personally have very little to go on.

> Ya, well I have had decades trying to figure this out so I doubt you

> could anyway.

You might be surprised...

>>> And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you

>>> mentioned... tried them all, was tested for all those mineral

>>> levels and tried numerous alternatives including supplementation

>>> of the minerals in question .... didn't help a bit.

>> Can't tell you how many times I've heard that, only to find out

>> the tests weren't done right, or were the wrong ones, or you used

>> an inferior/incorrect product to try to remedy the problem, etc...

> The usual excuse...blame the victim.

Sometimes (maybe more often than most people would like to believe) the

victim *is* to blame.

It is called self-accountability/responsibility.

> Could it be possible that I am smart enough to get the best

> supplements?

Maybe, but you're not smart enough to say no to all of the drugs that

you probably never needed, so maybe not... I know I'm not always smart

enough to find the best the first time around.

> By the way, did you know that one company manufactures 95% of the

> vitamin E in the USA?

I don't and wouldn't take 'vitamin e'. In fact I hardly ever take

isolated 'vitamins' or 'mineral' supplements. I prefer to get them in

whole food/superfood versions...

Some exceptions are niacin, vitamin c, d, ubiquinol, lithium (orotate),

and some of the amino acids (currently taking the somalife gHP blend),

and maybe some of the nootropics...

>>> No comment about the fact you might be healthy in spite of

>>> everything you do? My grandma was...

>> Yes, it is possible for good genes to let your body take a huge

>> amount of punishment before it starts to degrade, but that doesn't

>> mean it will last forever. The damage will be passed on to the

>> children, and the genetic line will get weaker and weaker with each

>> generation.

> I have heard that one too... seriously not true. That is what sex is

> for. To weed out the damaged genes. True, doesn't always work, but

> families don't weaken over generations unless there is some serious

> inbreeding.

Well, you obviously haven't done your homework.

There have been tests done verifying this (yes, animal tests, rats

and/or monkeys mainly), but it is really just plain common sense. When

fed an intentionally poor diet lacking certain vitamins and minerals,

the rats were then bred with rats that were healthy, each generation was

a little weaker, and exhibited 'old age' symptoms earlier than the

preceding generation, and after about 6 generations, their offspring

were all totally sterile, thus ending the experiment.

It happened *much* sooner (I think it was 3 generations) when they were

bred with other rats on the poor diet, which is probably closer to the

reality in this country (healthy people tend to not be attracted to

unhealthy people).

No, I don't have any study references handy, but I read some of them a

long time ago, and didn't know I might be needing them someday to

educate .

It is a fact, not a theory.

>>> I do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but

>>> we now have the ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long

>>> so it could make up for it.

>> Not a chance.

> And you know this how?

Lots of reading, a little applied common sense.

They don't just have a *little* less nutrients, they have a *lot* less -

in many cases, virtually zero, in most, as much as 80-90% less. There is

absolutely no way eating a little more could possibly even come *close*

to making up the difference.

>>> MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for

>>> muscles?... so much crap on the internet it is hard to figure

>>> out what is good reporting and what is just sales techniques.

>> Eh? It can work near miracles for certain problems (joints mainly,

>> which are *not* 'muscles'), but that doesn't mean it will do the

>> same for *everything*. Get a grip.

> That's not what the dozens of websites I have read claim....

> http://www.msm-info.com/

> This one claims MSM is a muscle relaxant.. ergo, should it not ease muscle

> spasms? Even a little bit?

Use your noggin ... it depends on what is *causing* the spasms. If

the spasms are caused by not enough potassium, how is taking MSM - which

is obviously not nor does it contain any potassium - going to cure it?

> If not, it should cure the raynaud's... as it dialates blood

> vessels... let you know this winter...

No wonder you have trouble with natural remedies... you make all kinds

of off the wall assumptions after reading a few web pages, and when

something doesn't work the way you think it should work based on a

flawed understanding of the science, you loudly proclaim " It Doesn't

Work! " ...

Incidentally, a better vasodilator for surface capillaries is niacin

(not niacinimide)... start with about 250mg, and if you don't get a huge

flush (almost like an itchy sunburn), slowly start working your way up

until you get to about 1.5grams per day (it may take a while to get

there, just slowly start increasing the dosage every week or so). The

flush is caused by the release of histamine from the skin cells, and if

you stop taking niacin after you've built up to a larger dose, you'll

have to start over agin, because your histamine levels will be back up.

Niacin is a very powerful tool, and I actually enjoy the flush, but some

really don't like it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_cardio.html

>>> And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to sell their

>>> drugs too.

>> Methinks you have it backwards... it is the 'natural health

>> industry' that has adopted *some* of the tactics (marketing hype)

>> of the drug companies (who have been engaging in far worse that

>> marketing hype, like terrorist tactics ever since the dawn of the

>> AMA).

> Well it used to be Pharma could not advertise... but there were

> plenty of hucksters trying to sell miracle cures for everything, so

> I think I have it right. People have been selling the latest tonic

> for just about forever.

No, I think you still have it wrong - it's just that the hucksters

selling snake oil (hey, some snake oils were actually very health

promoting) simply switched to selling drugs.

Do you know what the term 'witch' as used in the Bible most closely

translates to today? 'Doctor'.

> I applaud you faith in the " natural health industry "

Sorry, I don't have faith in anything except my ability to discern - and

yes, of course I've been wrong about many things, many times, but I'm

not afraid to admit it when it happens.

> I just choose to walk the border between modern medicine and old

> medicine. Honestly, do you really think you need all that

> resveratrol? [just as an example, not claiming you take it, please

> substitute it for something you do take]

Yes - mega dosing a few days on vitamin c will prevent most any kind of

cold or flu (this is what I immediately start doing when it is 'going

around the office', and I *never* get sick, and everyone else *always*

does).

[Guest guest]

Actually having kids will. The fetus is, to the woman's body, alien and the

immune system has to make adjustments to keep the fetus from aborting.

Sometimes, it goes wrong and damned if you don't end up with a variety of

autoimmune diseases. I have 3 myself... Hashimoto's, Mixed connective, and

Raynauds.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0019658

On the upside, subsequent pregnancies can put the autoimmune diseases to sleep

for awhile......

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0019658

As for the responses, for some reason mail is not putting the >> in... oh

well...

And please learn to read sarcasm, its in most of my answers.... I actually

don't buy the crap I read on those web sites.. I am just hoping it helps with

the hip pain and if the nails and hair get better, I will consider that a

bonus. And I have to admit... if it really helped with allergies, oh that

would be great..... Right now I am doing a little modern medical version of

homeopathy, and I am hoping that works....

Still, if you eat local and as organic as possible you should be able to get

enough of the nutrients you need without buying all the " superfoods " .

I found vitamin D alone stopped colds and the flu.... don't really need C...

perhaps they both work... I don't know...

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 4:55:20 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

Your replies were virtually indistinguishable from my comments - maybe

you could benefit from learning how to quote in an email discussion?

Hint: watch me/my posts...

On 2011-09-15 3:42 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> On 9/15/11 10:35:59 AM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... said:

>> On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote:

>>> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

>> Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle

>> choices (whether through ignorance or lack of caring is

>> irrelevant).

> Ok, possibly, personally I think it was having kids that did it.

Having kids won't *cause* health problems (aside from the occasional act

of god like a breech birth, etc), but because it is so stressful on the

body's systems, it can be a *trigger* - ie, in the vein of 'the straw

that broke the camels back'.

>>> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

>> By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

>>> And now I am only on two and you claim those the are causing all

>>> my problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

>> Who knows? At this point I personally have very little to go on.

> Ya, well I have had decades trying to figure this out so I doubt you

> could anyway.

You might be surprised...

>>> And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you

>>> mentioned... tried them all, was tested for all those mineral

>>> levels and tried numerous alternatives including supplementation

>>> of the minerals in question .... didn't help a bit.

>> Can't tell you how many times I've heard that, only to find out

>> the tests weren't done right, or were the wrong ones, or you used

>> an inferior/incorrect product to try to remedy the problem, etc...

> The usual excuse...blame the victim.

Sometimes (maybe more often than most people would like to believe) the

victim *is* to blame.

It is called self-accountability/responsibility.

> Could it be possible that I am smart enough to get the best

> supplements?

Maybe, but you're not smart enough to say no to all of the drugs that

you probably never needed, so maybe not... I know I'm not always smart

enough to find the best the first time around.

> By the way, did you know that one company manufactures 95% of the

> vitamin E in the USA?

I don't and wouldn't take 'vitamin e'. In fact I hardly ever take

isolated 'vitamins' or 'mineral' supplements. I prefer to get them in

whole food/superfood versions...

Some exceptions are niacin, vitamin c, d, ubiquinol, lithium (orotate),

and some of the amino acids (currently taking the somalife gHP blend),

and maybe some of the nootropics...

>>> No comment about the fact you might be healthy in spite of

>>> everything you do? My grandma was...

>> Yes, it is possible for good genes to let your body take a huge

>> amount of punishment before it starts to degrade, but that doesn't

>> mean it will last forever. The damage will be passed on to the

>> children, and the genetic line will get weaker and weaker with each

>> generation.

> I have heard that one too... seriously not true. That is what sex is

> for. To weed out the damaged genes. True, doesn't always work, but

> families don't weaken over generations unless there is some serious

> inbreeding.

Well, you obviously haven't done your homework.

There have been tests done verifying this (yes, animal tests, rats

and/or monkeys mainly), but it is really just plain common sense. When

fed an intentionally poor diet lacking certain vitamins and minerals,

the rats were then bred with rats that were healthy, each generation was

a little weaker, and exhibited 'old age' symptoms earlier than the

preceding generation, and after about 6 generations, their offspring

were all totally sterile, thus ending the experiment.

It happened *much* sooner (I think it was 3 generations) when they were

bred with other rats on the poor diet, which is probably closer to the

reality in this country (healthy people tend to not be attracted to

unhealthy people).

No, I don't have any study references handy, but I read some of them a

long time ago, and didn't know I might be needing them someday to

educate .

It is a fact, not a theory.

>>> I do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but

>>> we now have the ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long

>>> so it could make up for it.

>> Not a chance.

> And you know this how?

Lots of reading, a little applied common sense.

They don't just have a *little* less nutrients, they have a *lot* less -

in many cases, virtually zero, in most, as much as 80-90% less. There is

absolutely no way eating a little more could possibly even come *close*

to making up the difference.

>>> MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for

>>> muscles?... so much crap on the internet it is hard to figure

>>> out what is good reporting and what is just sales techniques.

>> Eh? It can work near miracles for certain problems (joints mainly,

>> which are *not* 'muscles'), but that doesn't mean it will do the

>> same for *everything*. Get a grip.

> That's not what the dozens of websites I have read claim....

> http://www.msm-info.com/

> This one claims MSM is a muscle relaxant.. ergo, should it not ease muscle

> spasms? Even a little bit?

Use your noggin ... it depends on what is *causing* the spasms. If

the spasms are caused by not enough potassium, how is taking MSM - which

is obviously not nor does it contain any potassium - going to cure it?

> If not, it should cure the raynaud's... as it dialates blood

> vessels... let you know this winter...

No wonder you have trouble with natural remedies... you make all kinds

of off the wall assumptions after reading a few web pages, and when

something doesn't work the way you think it should work based on a

flawed understanding of the science, you loudly proclaim " It Doesn't

Work! " ...

Incidentally, a better vasodilator for surface capillaries is niacin

(not niacinimide)... start with about 250mg, and if you don't get a huge

flush (almost like an itchy sunburn), slowly start working your way up

until you get to about 1.5grams per day (it may take a while to get

there, just slowly start increasing the dosage every week or so). The

flush is caused by the release of histamine from the skin cells, and if

you stop taking niacin after you've built up to a larger dose, you'll

have to start over agin, because your histamine levels will be back up.

Niacin is a very powerful tool, and I actually enjoy the flush, but some

really don't like it.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_cardio.html

>>> And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to sell their

>>> drugs too.

>> Methinks you have it backwards... it is the 'natural health

>> industry' that has adopted *some* of the tactics (marketing hype)

>> of the drug companies (who have been engaging in far worse that

>> marketing hype, like terrorist tactics ever since the dawn of the

>> AMA).

> Well it used to be Pharma could not advertise... but there were

> plenty of hucksters trying to sell miracle cures for everything, so

> I think I have it right. People have been selling the latest tonic

> for just about forever.

No, I think you still have it wrong - it's just that the hucksters

selling snake oil (hey, some snake oils were actually very health

promoting) simply switched to selling drugs.

Do you know what the term 'witch' as used in the Bible most closely

translates to today? 'Doctor'.

> I applaud you faith in the " natural health industry "

Sorry, I don't have faith in anything except my ability to discern - and

yes, of course I've been wrong about many things, many times, but I'm

not afraid to admit it when it happens.

> I just choose to walk the border between modern medicine and old

> medicine. Honestly, do you really think you need all that

> resveratrol? [just as an example, not claiming you take it, please

> substitute it for something you do take]

Yes - mega dosing a few days on vitamin c will prevent most any kind of

cold or flu (this is what I immediately start doing when it is 'going

around the office', and I *never* get sick, and everyone else *always*

does).

[Guest guest]

Congrats Micheal, I was glad to find my levels had improved too and I was being

generous with the VCO then added the MCT. Go Saturated fat....... Have you

tried a low[er] carb diet for your diabetes? I have my nephew on one and got

his glucose down from the 200s to running between 80 and 120. He is a tough

case though.... hard to keep him on the straight and narrow with regard to

diet...

________________________________

From: <wilson19262003@...>

" Coconut Oil "

<Coconut Oil >

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 4:28:01 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

Hi Everyone......I have been taking coconut oil (3 tablespoons/day)for about 6

months and just had my labs drawn. Cholesterol (120)....... HDL (55) way up,

(LDL: 82) way down and triglycerides (84) way down. I'm convinced its the

coconut oil. I'm sold and my Doctor is very please with the results since I'm a

63 year old diabetic on an insulin pump.

From: Cody <lecody2001@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:42 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 10:35:59 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle choices

(whether through ignorance or lack of caring is irrelevant).

Ok, possibly, personally I think it was having kids that did it.

> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

> And now I am only on two and you claim those the are causing all my

> problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

Who knows? At this point I personally have very little to go on.

Ya, well I have had decades trying to figure this out so I doubt you could

anyway.

> And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you

> mentioned... tried them all, was tested for all those mineral levels

> and tried numerous alternatives including supplementation of the

> minerals in question .... didn't help a bit.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard that, only to find out the

tests weren't done right, or were the wrong ones, or you used an

inferior/incorrect product to try to remedy the problem, etc...

The usual excuse...blame the victim.

Could it be possible that I am smart enough to get the best supplements?

By the way, did you know that one company manufactures 95% of the vitamin E in

the USA?

> No comment about the fact you might be healthy in spite of everything

> you do? My grandma was...

Yes, it is possible for good genes to let your body take a huge amount

of punishment before it starts to degrade, but that doesn't mean it will

last forever. The damage will be passed on to the children, and the

genetic line will get weaker and weaker with each generation.

I have heard that one too... seriously not true. That is what sex is for. To

weed out the damaged genes. True, doesn't always work, but families don't weaken

over generations unless there is some serious inbreeding.

> Nor any comment on the fact you could, in spite of everything you do,

> still get cancer or some other deadly disease?

The only time this would be true is if you were exposed to an unnatural

level of some highly toxic substance (radiation? chemicals?)...

Doesn't take much to damage living organism so I doubt it takes much to damage

DNA.

Otherwise, disease can only manifest itself if given the opportunity

through long term poor lifestyle choices - and eating the S.A.D is the

biggest one, followed by ignorance (eating lots of soy thinking it is

healthy, etc)...

> I am still, not convinced about the need for mega doses of

> anything... including vitamin C.... and if you must it should only be

> for a short period of time.

We have looked in the mirror and discovered our worst enemy - ourself.

Fine but mostly your feeding bacteria and viruses and assorted parasites, I

suppose there is some good in that. Keeps them happy.

Your lack of being convinced doesn't make it any less true, just like

the person convinced they can fly will still go splat if they jump off a

cliff.

> I do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but we

> now have the ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long so it

> could make up for it.

Not a chance.

And you know this how?

> MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for

> muscles?... so much crap on the internet it is hard to figure out

> what is good reporting and what is just sales techniques.

Eh? It can work near miracles for certain problems (joints mainly, which

are *not* 'muscles'), but that doesn't mean it will do the same for

*everything*. Get a grip.

That's not what the dozens of websites I have read claim....

http://www.msm-info.com/

This one claims MSM is a muscle relaxant.. ergo, should it not ease muscle

spasms? Even a little bit? If not, it should cure the raynaud's...as it

dialates blood vessels... let you know this winter...

The types of pain which has been treated successfully with MSM include:

* Personal injury due to accidents, burns, etc.

* Osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis

* Fibromyalgia

* Lower back pains

* Headaches, migraines

* Muscle aches

* Bursitis

* Tennis elbows and other local sprots injuries

* Carpal Syndrome

* Sclerosis;

* Whiplash

* RSI (Repititive Strain Injury);

* Scars due to burns, operations, accidents, etc.The way MSM impacts

pain is currently explained by the following mechanisms:

* MSM is a natural analgetic: it blocks the transfer of pain impulses

through nerve fibers (C-fibers).

* MSM blocks inflammations and inflammatory processes. MSM enhances

the activity of cortisol, a natural anti-inflammatory hormone produced

by the body.

* MSM improves the permeability of cell membranes. This improves the

uptake of nutrients and many vitamins and the elimination of waste

products and excess cellular fluids.

* MSM dilates bloood vessels, enhancing the blood circulation. This,

too, helps to eliminate waste products from the body, which speeds up

healing.

* MSM is a muscle relaxant. This is an important and often overlooked

benefit of MSM. Many chronic pains are aggrevated by chronic muscle

tension in the body.

* MSM aids the natural defense mechanisms in the body by regulating

the prostaglandin metabolism, and regulates the formation of

anitbodies and immune complexes.

MSM slows down and restores crosslinking in collagen. Crosslinking in

collagen is a natural process in scar formation, causing hard and often

painful scar tissues. Particularly in the case of burn scars, in which

large surface areas may be affected, this may lead to chronic pain. MSM

heals scar tissue which makes the skin more flexible. Dramatic examples

are known of people who have treated burn scars with a MSM ointment and

have seen their scars almost disappear and have eliminated associated

pains.

> And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to sell their drugs

> too.

Methinks you have it backwards... it is the 'natural health industry'

that has adopted *some* of the tactics (marketing hype) of the drug

companies (who have been engaging in far worse that marketing hype, like

terrorist tactics ever since the dawn of the AMA).

Well it used to be Pharma could not advertise... but there were plenty of

hucksters trying to sell miracle cures for everything, so I think I have it

right. People have been selling the latest tonic for just about forever.

I applaud you faith in the " natural health industry " and your acknowledgement

that it is an industry and would not be as big as it is if not for modern

medicine and researchers that managed to come up with ways to mass manufacture

all the stuff you buy. So its starting to be difficult to even tell where one

ends and the other begins.

I just choose to walk the border between modern medicine and old medicine.

Honestly, do you really think you need all that resveratrol? [just as an

example, not claiming you take it, please substitute it for something you do

take]

[Guest guest]

Thanks Chuck,

________________________________

From: " cking001@... " <cking001@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 3:35:15 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

Eminently sensible approach,

Chuck

Favorite motto of old tool and die makers and machinists:

Illegitimi non tatum carborundum!*

*Don't let the bastards grind you down.

On 9/15/2011 8:16:18 AM, Cody (lecody2001@...) wrote:

> My point is that neither is infallible, both can help and both can kill.

> I

> don't fully trust either path especially when taken to excess.

>

>

> Your examples of vegans and soy is one.

> And my sister's

> medicine chest is another. Both excessive.

>

> I take, regularly, two prescriptions, Levoxyl and Plaquenil. I tried

> Armour

> thryroid, but it

> didn't work for me at all, I actually became worse on it. The

> plaquenil, for better or worse, took care of some crippling muscle spasms in

my

> hands and feet that nothing I tried from both sides of the aisle worked, and

> believe me I tried for 5 years. You think the MSM might have some effect on

> that?

>

> I have managed to get myself off of 1/2 dozen other meds because I agree, they

> aren't

> always useful, at best a temporary fix, but pharmaceuticals can

> literally be life preserving for some.

>

>

> On the alternative side, I swear by Vitamin D and probiotics. I am trying

> NAC

> for lung function but frankly

> don't see much improvement there, and Duncan's

> whey

> didn't work for me either. But I do plan on trying again later after I

> have been on th

[Guest guest]

.....Thanks for the comments. I wonder if MCT will help further with the

VCO. Aren't they about the same stuff? As far as a low card diet, I try to watch

what I eat but haven't found a low carb diet I can stick with. I've tried adkins

but I couoldn't stick with it.

 

Thanks again

michael

From: Cody <lecody2001@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 7:12 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

 

Congrats Micheal, I was glad to find my levels had improved too and I was being

generous with the VCO then added the MCT. Go Saturated fat....... Have you

tried a low[er] carb diet for your diabetes? I have my nephew on one and got

his glucose down from the 200s to running between 80 and 120. He is a tough

case though.... hard to keep him on the straight and narrow with regard to

diet...

________________________________

From: <wilson19262003@...>

" Coconut Oil "

<Coconut Oil >

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 4:28:01 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

Hi Everyone......I have been taking coconut oil (3 tablespoons/day)for about 6

months and just had my labs drawn. Cholesterol (120)....... HDL (55) way up,

(LDL: 82) way down and triglycerides (84) way down. I'm convinced its the

coconut oil. I'm sold and my Doctor is very please with the results since I'm a

63 year old diabetic on an insulin pump.

From: Cody <lecody2001@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:42 PM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 10:35:59 AM

Subject: Re: Coconut Oil/MCT oil Effect on Cholesterol

On 2011-09-15 10:16 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote:

> Wow, my problems started, I was on no drugs what so ever...

Ok, so your problems were initially caused by poor lifestyle choices

(whether through ignorance or lack of caring is irrelevant).

Ok, possibly, personally I think it was having kids that did it.

> so how can drugs be causing the problems.

By making things *worse*/causing *new* problems.

> And now I am only on two and you claim those the are causing all my

> problems or were you referring to the accumulated effect?

Who knows? At this point I personally have very little to go on.

Ya, well I have had decades trying to figure this out so I doubt you could

anyway.

> And the muscle spasm, not caused by any of the things you

> mentioned... tried them all, was tested for all those mineral levels

> and tried numerous alternatives including supplementation of the

> minerals in question .... didn't help a bit.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard that, only to find out the

tests weren't done right, or were the wrong ones, or you used an

inferior/incorrect product to try to remedy the problem, etc...

The usual excuse...blame the victim.

Could it be possible that I am smart enough to get the best supplements?

By the way, did you know that one company manufactures 95% of the vitamin E in

the USA?

> No comment about the fact you might be healthy in spite of everything

> you do? My grandma was...

Yes, it is possible for good genes to let your body take a huge amount

of punishment before it starts to degrade, but that doesn't mean it will

last forever. The damage will be passed on to the children, and the

genetic line will get weaker and weaker with each generation.

I have heard that one too... seriously not true. That is what sex is for. To

weed out the damaged genes. True, doesn't always work, but families don't weaken

over generations unless there is some serious inbreeding.

> Nor any comment on the fact you could, in spite of everything you do,

> still get cancer or some other deadly disease?

The only time this would be true is if you were exposed to an unnatural

level of some highly toxic substance (radiation? chemicals?)...

Doesn't take much to damage living organism so I doubt it takes much to damage

DNA.

Otherwise, disease can only manifest itself if given the opportunity

through long term poor lifestyle choices - and eating the S.A.D is the

biggest one, followed by ignorance (eating lots of soy thinking it is

healthy, etc)...

> I am still, not convinced about the need for mega doses of

> anything... including vitamin C.... and if you must it should only be

> for a short period of time.

We have looked in the mirror and discovered our worst enemy - ourself.

Fine but mostly your feeding bacteria and viruses and assorted parasites, I

suppose there is some good in that. Keeps them happy.

Your lack of being convinced doesn't make it any less true, just like

the person convinced they can fly will still go splat if they jump off a

cliff.

> I do agree that foods these day have less nutrients in them but we

> now have the ability to eat fruits and veggies all year long so it

> could make up for it.

Not a chance.

And you know this how?

> MSM isn't a miracle cure?... thought it did good things for

> muscles?... so much crap on the internet it is hard to figure out

> what is good reporting and what is just sales techniques.

Eh? It can work near miracles for certain problems (joints mainly, which

are *not* 'muscles'), but that doesn't mean it will do the same for

*everything*. Get a grip.

That's not what the dozens of websites I have read claim....

http://www.msm-info.com/

This one claims MSM is a muscle relaxant.. ergo, should it not ease muscle

spasms? Even a little bit? If not, it should cure the raynaud's...as it

dialates blood vessels... let you know this winter...

The types of pain which has been treated successfully with MSM include:

* Personal injury due to accidents, burns, etc.

* Osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis

* Fibromyalgia

* Lower back pains

* Headaches, migraines

* Muscle aches

* Bursitis

* Tennis elbows and other local sprots injuries

* Carpal Syndrome

* Sclerosis;

* Whiplash

* RSI (Repititive Strain Injury);

* Scars due to burns, operations, accidents, etc.The way MSM impacts

pain is currently explained by the following mechanisms:

* MSM is a natural analgetic: it blocks the transfer of pain impulses

through nerve fibers (C-fibers).

* MSM blocks inflammations and inflammatory processes. MSM enhances

the activity of cortisol, a natural anti-inflammatory hormone produced

by the body.

* MSM improves the permeability of cell membranes. This improves the

uptake of nutrients and many vitamins and the elimination of waste

products and excess cellular fluids.

* MSM dilates bloood vessels, enhancing the blood circulation. This,

too, helps to eliminate waste products from the body, which speeds up

healing.

* MSM is a muscle relaxant. This is an important and often overlooked

benefit of MSM. Many chronic pains are aggrevated by chronic muscle

tension in the body.

* MSM aids the natural defense mechanisms in the body by regulating

the prostaglandin metabolism, and regulates the formation of

anitbodies and immune complexes.

MSM slows down and restores crosslinking in collagen. Crosslinking in

collagen is a natural process in scar formation, causing hard and often

painful scar tissues. Particularly in the case of burn scars, in which

large surface areas may be affected, this may lead to chronic pain. MSM

heals scar tissue which makes the skin more flexible. Dramatic examples

are known of people who have treated burn scars with a MSM ointment and

have seen their scars almost disappear and have eliminated associated

pains.

> And now Pharma has adopted the same techniques to sell their drugs

> too.

Methinks you have it backwards... it is the 'natural health industry'

that has adopted *some* of the tactics (marketing hype) of the drug

companies (who have been engaging in far worse that marketing hype, like

terrorist tactics ever since the dawn of the AMA).

Well it used to be Pharma could not advertise... but there were plenty of

hucksters trying to sell miracle cures for everything, so I think I have it

right. People have been selling the latest tonic for just about forever.

I applaud you faith in the " natural health industry " and your acknowledgement

that it is an industry and would not be as big as it is if not for modern

medicine and researchers that managed to come up with ways to mass manufacture

all the stuff you buy. So its starting to be difficult to even tell where one

ends and the other begins.

I just choose to walk the border between modern medicine and old medicine.

Honestly, do you really think you need all that resveratrol? [just as an

example, not claiming you take it, please substitute it for something you do

take]