Re: New to group - weight gain on CO

[Guest guest]

My suggestion, as unpopular as it might be, would be to try zero carbs

and reduced fats for at least a week.

Weigh yourself daily,

Then ask again...

Chuck

Just before the funeral services, the undertaker

came up to the very elderly widow and asked, " How old

was your husband? " " 98, " she replied. " Two years older

than me. " " So you're 96, " the undertaker commented.

She responded, " Hardly worth going home, is it?

On 9/10/2011 9:05:02 AM, lizz7711 (lizz7711@...) wrote:

> However, I have gained about 8 lbs since starting on this, and I need to lose

about 30! I take hydrocortisone for adrenal burnout (25mg) and also Armour

thyroid (90mg) for hypothyroid. I was hoping the CO would jumpstart my

metabolism and help me burn calories better, but it just seems to have slowed

down even more.

>

> Should I stop using the CO? I love the stuff, it tastes great and I want it

for the health benefits as well. Would it solve the problem if I lower carbs

and overall calories? Or is the weight gain just perhaps a problem with MY body

and coconut oil?

>

> thanks for any advice,

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Liz,

the best anti-wasting tool is not coconut or any other oil but undenatured whey

protein, and it is specifically indicated in the Physicians Desk Reference for

Prescription Drugs for cachexia (wasting) due to cancer or AIDS. Undenatured

whey protein builds lean muscle and organ mass and function and it is

chemotherapeutic even on its own. Undenatured means unbroken; in this respect it

contains glutathione precursors that are broken with heating and mechanical

intervention. Immunocal is championed but the original whey-against-cancer

studies before Immunocal came to market as a product make a good case. Some of

the best studies including whey/cancer case studies that would interest you, are

here in my glutathione references:

http://members.shaw.caduncancrow/glutathione-references.html

I don't sell Immunocal. There are a couple of wheys on my whey page linked for

examples, mainly because they disclose the proteins for the

glutathione-precursor calculation also on the page.

Your fat gain may be due to the oil, but most likely bowel dysbiosis is a

component. The wrong bowel ecology commits rising toxin load, which results in

both hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue, which can lead to weight gain. Dysbiosis,

and candida is assumed unless ruled out, may have edema/inflammation

accompanying it for additional weight gain, also arthritis and other

inflammatory disorders may become apparent. To reverse bowel dysbiosis over a

period of months you'd need inulin and higher inulin foods to feed probiotics,

combined with a low-carb diet. The inulin data is here:

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/inulin_prebiotic_probiotic.html

I think if you reduced the CO and carbs to almost nothing and added " MCT oil " ,

which is capric and caprylic acid for energy to replace the coconut oil, but

without the lauric acid, and also used undenatured whey, selenium, and inulin,

you'd be well ahead like many on this list are. Even if I didn't guess your

situation right it's real good for you, good for anti-aging and all that. You'll

maximise the protocol with a good diet and some supplements of course.

http://tinyurl.com/crow-protocol

For your dad's memory, I'd suggest looking at MCT oil, phosphatidylcholine and

phosphatidylserine or lecithin, pregnenelone, bacopa monnieri, and gotu kola.

Especially the pregnenolone MCT oil and lecithin. All are well documented.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi, I just started taking about 2-3 TBS CO per day 6 weeks ago after getting

my dad on it for memory issues. It hans't helped much w/ his memory, but now

we've found that his memory problems are likely related to long term use of

Neurontin for nerve pain, so trying to decrease that and we're seeing

improvement in his memory. Still continueing the CO for him though, since he

also has cancer and just needs all the help he can get (and extra calories).

>

> However, I have gained about 8 lbs since starting on this, and I need to lose

about 30! I take hydrocortisone for adrenal burnout (25mg) and also Armour

thyroid (90mg) for hypothyroid. I was hoping the CO would jumpstart my

metabolism and help me burn calories better, but it just seems to have slowed

down even more.

>

> Should I stop using the CO? I love the stuff, it tastes great and I want it

for the health benefits as well. Would it solve the problem if I lower carbs

and overall calories? Or is the weight gain just perhaps a problem with MY body

and coconut oil?

>

> thanks for any advice,

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Oops a typo; here's the glutathione references link:

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/glutathione-references.html

all good,

Duncan

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

thanks so much for all the information, I will look up all the links you

provided. For my dad, i've heard that whey is good, but had not gotten around to

checking into it further, so I will do so now...he is eating well but just does

not gain weight.

Starting yesterday, i'm going on a mostly vegetarian low carb diet, and also

doing a 2 week colon cleanse. I'm determined to kickstart my thyroid and

adrenals to work again...have already had all mercury taken out of my mouth, but

still need to do DMSA chelation since I think heavy metals is a key factor

behind the gut issues and also yeast etc. (did I mention I have celiac disease

too?) I will check into inulin and MCT oil. I take probiotics but only

sporadically. For now, i'm cutting out the coc. oil except for cooking.

appreciate the tips from you and from Chuck! Any tips on how my dad can get rid

of that nerve pain?

thanks!

Liz

> >

> > Hi, I just started taking about 2-3 TBS CO per day 6 weeks ago after getting

my dad on it for memory issues. It hans't helped much w/ his memory, but now

we've found that his memory problems are likely related to long term use of

Neurontin for nerve pain, so trying to decrease that and we're seeing

improvement in his memory. Still continueing the CO for him though, since he

also has cancer and just needs all the help he can get (and extra calories).

> >

> > However, I have gained about 8 lbs since starting on this, and I need to

lose about 30! I take hydrocortisone for adrenal burnout (25mg) and also Armour

thyroid (90mg) for hypothyroid. I was hoping the CO would jumpstart my

metabolism and help me burn calories better, but it just seems to have slowed

down even more.

> >

> > Should I stop using the CO? I love the stuff, it tastes great and I want it

for the health benefits as well. Would it solve the problem if I lower carbs

and overall calories? Or is the weight gain just perhaps a problem with MY body

and coconut oil?

> >

> > thanks for any advice,

> > Liz

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-12 3:20 PM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> Starting yesterday, i'm going on a mostly vegetarian low carb diet

Low carb is fine, but mostly vegetarian is a bad idea.

It is really sad that people have been brainwashed (not saying you are,

I'm speaking generally) into believing that eating animals is somehow

wrong, unhealthy, or worse - immoral.

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

If you are 30 lbs. overweight and have gained weight on VCO it means that you

still in glucose burning mode and you need to be in fat burning mode in order to

burn that extra fat. The best way to do that is with a ketone inducing diet. In

order to do that you need to eat mostly protein and fat with VERY LITTLE carbs.

This is almost impossible to do on a vegetarian diet as the vegetables that

contain adequate protein also contain carbs. You are much better off with meat,

chicken, fish, eggs, cheese, some nuts, and whey protein. And I would definitely

continue with the coconut oil - especially since you enjoy it. Once you

eliminate the carbs the coconut oil will not only help put you in fat burning

mode but it will help to curb your appetite. You can check your ketosis status

with Ketostix at the drugstore.

A couple of cautions with this diet: be sure to get a little exercise - it need

not be a LOT. Walking several times a week is fine - just don't be a couch

potato. If you find you are constipated, take psyllium fiber. Also, be sure to

take your vitamins and eat low carb veggies like lettuce, cucumber, onions,

garlic, spinach, tomatoes, asparagus, and any type of greens. A few carrots are

ok but not too many. After you have had some success you can begin to add back

some of the other carbs in small amounts. Just be sure to check your ketone

status if you still need to lose. As long you you are in ketosis you should be

in fat burning mode. Hope this helps.

Dee

-- In Coconut Oil , " lizz7711 " <lizz7711@...> wrote:

>

>

> Starting yesterday, i'm going on a mostly vegetarian low carb diet, and also

doing a 2 week colon cleanse. I'm determined to kickstart my thyroid and

adrenals to work again...have already had all mercury taken out of my mouth, but

still need to do DMSA chelation since I think heavy metals is a key factor

behind the gut issues and also yeast etc. (did I mention I have celiac disease

too?) I will check into inulin and MCT oil. I take probiotics but only

sporadically. For now, i'm cutting out the coc. oil except for cooking.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

Calcium AEP is good for nerve pain, it helped me with my tooth nerve issues. I

only took it for 2 weeks at a high dose.  Byron s did a podcast on this

for helping with all types of nerve pain so I tried it.   I got mine at

Wellness Resources, but you can get it at iherb or maybe some health shops. Not

sure if it would help with other types of nerve pain, but I can only report my

own success.

Val

________________________________

From: lizz7711 <lizz7711@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Monday, 12 September 2011, 20:20

Subject: Re: New to group - weight gain on CO

 

Hi Duncan,

thanks so much for all the information, I will look up all the links you

provided. For my dad, i've heard that whey is good, but had not gotten around to

checking into it further, so I will do so now...he is eating well but just does

not gain weight.

Starting yesterday, i'm going on a mostly vegetarian low carb diet, and also

doing a 2 week colon cleanse. I'm determined to kickstart my thyroid and

adrenals to work again...have already had all mercury taken out of my mouth, but

still need to do DMSA chelation since I think heavy metals is a key factor

behind the gut issues and also yeast etc. (did I mention I have celiac disease

too?) I will check into inulin and MCT oil. I take probiotics but only

sporadically. For now, i'm cutting out the coc. oil except for cooking.

appreciate the tips from you and from Chuck! Any tips on how my dad can get rid

of that nerve pain?

thanks!

Liz

> >

> > Hi, I just started taking about 2-3 TBS CO per day 6 weeks ago after getting

my dad on it for memory issues. It hans't helped much w/ his memory, but now

we've found that his memory problems are likely related to long term use of

Neurontin for nerve pain, so trying to decrease that and we're seeing

improvement in his memory. Still continueing the CO for him though, since he

also has cancer and just needs all the help he can get (and extra calories).

> >

> > However, I have gained about 8 lbs since starting on this, and I need to

lose about 30! I take hydrocortisone for adrenal burnout (25mg) and also Armour

thyroid (90mg) for hypothyroid. I was hoping the CO would jumpstart my

metabolism and help me burn calories better, but it just seems to have slowed

down even more.

> >

> > Should I stop using the CO? I love the stuff, it tastes great and I want it

for the health benefits as well. Would it solve the problem if I lower carbs

and overall calories? Or is the weight gain just perhaps a problem with MY body

and coconut oil?

> >

> > thanks for any advice,

> > Liz

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think a vegetarian diet may lead to more issues than it resolves, and an

anti-candida diet works well when one uses whey and eggs. They are the top two

animal proteins, easily assimilable, and the whey is mildly alkalizing when

vegan protein sources (and even eggs) are acidifying.

I participated in candidiasis discussions for about 10 years. In candida issues

one reacts to the same protein that is also a component of gluten, the

irritating protein that results in celiac disease. Long-term bowel candida can

mimic gluten intolerance and it can actually cause celiac disease by prolonged

irritation. Bowel dysbiosis (bad ecology) ushers in candida very quickly, and

the toxin load created by this mess leads to adrenal fatigue/burnout and

hypothyroid. I find I'm bringing up bowel dysbiosis in more than half my senior

clients. Dysbiosis can be treated with an undenatured whey, selenium, and inulin

protocol; research points out that bifidobacteria become the dominant probiotic

again with inulin added to the diet.

Ozone injections have been used for pain.

<http://www.austinppc.com/binary/org/SJM_PSP_122/Oxygen-Ozone%20Therapy%20in%20A\

cute%20Back%20Pain%20With%20Lumbar%20Disc%20Herniation.pdf>

Salvia Divinorum is an analgesic herb.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi Duncan,

>

> thanks so much for all the information, I will look up all the links you

provided. For my dad, i've heard that whey is good, but had not gotten around to

checking into it further, so I will do so now...he is eating well but just does

not gain weight.

>

> Starting yesterday, i'm going on a mostly vegetarian low carb diet, and also

doing a 2 week colon cleanse. I'm determined to kickstart my thyroid and

adrenals to work again...have already had all mercury taken out of my mouth, but

still need to do DMSA chelation since I think heavy metals is a key factor

behind the gut issues and also yeast etc. (did I mention I have celiac disease

too?) I will check into inulin and MCT oil. I take probiotics but only

sporadically. For now, i'm cutting out the coc. oil except for cooking.

>

> appreciate the tips from you and from Chuck! Any tips on how my dad can get

rid of that nerve pain?

>

> thanks!

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding fats, I used to joke about my cookie diet. When my children were small

we often made homemade butter sugar cookies w/cream cheese frosting together. As

a single parent, I was really busy and several times my lunch was several of

these delicious delights. I actually started losing weight although not trying

at all. Recently we have had a surplus of peaches and blackberries and I have

made at least 8 pies. There are only 2 of us here, but each disappeared quickly.

I love just fresh peaches or berries in cream or with cottage cheese, but

honestly, 2-3 pieces of pie over the day and I was too full for the fresh fruit.

And, I slowly lost weight again—after having tried unsuccessfully over the

summer to drop 5 pounds.

Not that I am advocating eating this way, just that I had fruit to consume

quickly, and it was kind of surprising. I do think however, the reason my pie

diet 'worked' in losing weight was because the butter in the crust kept me

satiated—plus this was a busy time for me so I wasn't much in the kitchen, but

having a dose of whey each day. Normally I eat fairly low carb, bread/gluten

only once a week, only good fats like coconut oil, butter or olive oil. Also,

normally if I want to drop a couple of pounds I also have to fore go my

tea—strong English with 1/2 & 1/2 and sugar (my major pleasure in the day), but

not this time.

Cheers,

Posted by: " Dolores " dgk@... dolores685

Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:36 pm (PDT)

Hi Liz,

If you are 30 lbs. overweight and have gained weight on VCO it means that you

still in glucose burning mode and you need to be in fat burning mode in order to

burn that extra fat. The best way to do that is with a ketone inducing diet. In

order to do that you need to eat mostly protein and fat with VERY LITTLE carbs.

This is almost impossible to do on a vegetarian diet as the vegetables that

contain adequate protein also contain carbs. You are much better off with meat,

chicken, fish, eggs, cheese, some nuts, and whey protein. And I would definitely

continue with the coconut oil - especially since you enjoy it. Once you

eliminate the carbs the coconut oil will not only help put you in fat burning

mode but it will help to curb your appetite. You can check your ketosis status

with Ketostix at the drugstore.

A couple of cautions with this diet: be sure to get a little exercise - it need

not be a LOT. Walking several times a week is fine - just don't be a couch

potato. If you find you are constipated, take psyllium fiber. Also, be sure to

take your vitamins and eat low carb veggies like lettuce, cucumber, onions,

garlic, spinach, tomatoes, asparagus, and any type of greens. A few carrots are

ok but not too many. After you have had some success you can begin to add back

some of the other carbs in small amounts. Just be sure to check your ketone

status if you still need to lose. As long you you are in ketosis you should be

in fat burning mode. Hope this helps.

Dee

[Guest guest]

Thanks Val, i'll do some research on that!

> > >

> > > Hi, I just started taking about 2-3 TBS CO per day 6 weeks ago after

getting my dad on it for memory issues. It hans't helped much w/ his memory, but

now we've found that his memory problems are likely related to long term use of

Neurontin for nerve pain, so trying to decrease that and we're seeing

improvement in his memory. Still continueing the CO for him though, since he

also has cancer and just needs all the help he can get (and extra calories).

> > >

> > > However, I have gained about 8 lbs since starting on this, and I need to

lose about 30! I take hydrocortisone for adrenal burnout (25mg) and also Armour

thyroid (90mg) for hypothyroid. I was hoping the CO would jumpstart my

metabolism and help me burn calories better, but it just seems to have slowed

down even more.

> > >

> > > Should I stop using the CO? I love the stuff, it tastes great and I want

it for the health benefits as well. Would it solve the problem if I lower carbs

and overall calories? Or is the weight gain just perhaps a problem with MY body

and coconut oil?

> > >

> > > thanks for any advice,

> > > Liz

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dee,

Wow, well I'm going to think about this...is there a good website you recommend

for info on the Ketogenic diet? How long would I need to do it for, just until

I lose the weight? Is it likely to stress my adrenals/thyroid or will it

somehow reverse the problem there? How many carbs would be enough for one day

on this plan, and would I still use coc oil or rather MCT oil as Duncan

recommended?

thanks,

Liz

> >

> >

> > Starting yesterday, i'm going on a mostly vegetarian low carb diet, and also

doing a 2 week colon cleanse. I'm determined to kickstart my thyroid and

adrenals to work again...have already had all mercury taken out of my mouth, but

still need to do DMSA chelation since I think heavy metals is a key factor

behind the gut issues and also yeast etc. (did I mention I have celiac disease

too?) I will check into inulin and MCT oil. I take probiotics but only

sporadically. For now, i'm cutting out the coc. oil except for cooking.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for this info, tonight i'm going to spend some time on your website

reading the various articles and info on dysbiosis. I can postpone the

vegetarian diet, but ultimately my plan is to be about 90% vegetarian, still

eating fish regularly, eggs, and organic meats now and then. What do you think

of the ketogenic diet Dee recommended? Would I combine that with the inulin

etc.? I am finally in a mind-set where I know that I will and can follow any

plan - i've just reached that point. : )

I really appreciate the help here!

Liz

> >

> > Hi Duncan,

> >

> > thanks so much for all the information, I will look up all the links you

provided. For my dad, i've heard that whey is good, but had not gotten around to

checking into it further, so I will do so now...he is eating well but just does

not gain weight.

> >

> > Starting yesterday, i'm going on a mostly vegetarian low carb diet, and also

doing a 2 week colon cleanse. I'm determined to kickstart my thyroid and

adrenals to work again...have already had all mercury taken out of my mouth, but

still need to do DMSA chelation since I think heavy metals is a key factor

behind the gut issues and also yeast etc. (did I mention I have celiac disease

too?) I will check into inulin and MCT oil. I take probiotics but only

sporadically. For now, i'm cutting out the coc. oil except for cooking.

> >

> > appreciate the tips from you and from Chuck! Any tips on how my dad can get

rid of that nerve pain?

> >

> > thanks!

> > Liz

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-13 5:44 PM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> but ultimately my plan is to be about 90% vegetarian, still eating fish

> regularly, eggs, and organic meats now and then.

*Why*?

[Guest guest]

Because I want to, lol.

I'm not at all against eating meat...I just don't think the meat we buy is

healthy due to all the hormones and antibiotics the animals are given and what

they are fed, and the stressful lives they lead, and then the way they are

killed most often probably causes extreme stress in their bodies, and then we

eat this. Even organic meat or free range is no guarantee that they were killed

humanely and quickly without stress. The only way to do that is to buy Kosher

(or Halal I guess), since they kill the animals with a large knife and quickly.

I do love animals too, and don't like the idea of eating animals that have been

tortured basically their whole lives - so eating meat out at resstaurants needs

to go for me. For now, i'll take my chances w/ organic/free range, maybe try to

find a farmer I can buy from who I know kills the animals humanely etc. Or, buy

organic kosher meat.

I have studied various diets, been vegan, read China Study, learned about Paleo

etc. My conclusion is that people CAN be healthy on any " diet " -- the common

element in both vegan and paleo diets is that they stress lots of veggies, fresh

food, non processed etc. Any American who starts eating more fresh organic

veggies and meats, cutting out boxed foods and additives, is going to lose

weight most likely and improve their health. even the China Study said that the

people studied did eat meat, just not the pounds of it that we do over here -

that much animal protein isn't necessary to be healthy or strong (look at the

buffalo, what do they eat? grass).

I don't push vegetarianism in any way....i've just decided for myself that i'd

like to cut back on meats, for the various reasons above, but I still love good

meat and plan to eat it on a regular basis once I start that. After my high

protein ketogenic plan where i'll be eating lots of meat! haha.

Liz

> > but ultimately my plan is to be about 90% vegetarian, still eating fish

> > regularly, eggs, and organic meats now and then.

>

> *Why*?

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 7:46 AM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> My conclusion is that people CAN be healthy on any " diet " --

Not really... you can't be healthy on a diet of potato chips and coke.

> the common element in both vegan and paleo diets is that they stress

> lots of veggies, fresh food, non processed etc.

Paleo is mostly animal proteins... the veggies are mostly incidental.

> Any American who starts eating more fresh organic veggies and meats,

> cutting out boxed foods and additives, is going to lose weight most

> likely and improve their health. even the China Study said that the

> people studied did eat meat, just not the pounds of it that we do

> over here - that much animal protein isn't necessary to be healthy or

> strong (look at the buffalo, what do they eat? grass).

False analogy. People are not buffalos. Cows (buffalos included) have

two stomachs and are designed to digest grasses... we aren't.

The bottom line is, the vast majority of people need lots of high

quality animal protein (including organ meats, bone broths, etc) to

thrive, and most vegetarians/vegans slowly wither away health wise

unless/until they learn the error of their ways.

Maybe - MAYBE it is possible to thrive without eating animal proteins,

but the effort and expense are far beyond the average - or even above

average - person.

I love animals too, but you are wrong about not being able to find

vendors other than Kosher (or whatever) that raise healthy meats and

process it humanely. Give your business to them - if enough people did

this, the big boys would be forced to conform.

[Guest guest]

True, not " any " diet, haha.

My point w/ the buffalo was just that high protein intake does not equate to

muscle - vegetables have protein and we don't need animal meat to get enough

protein, that is true. But, I agree that vegans and vegetarians often do not

eat the way they should to get the right amount of nutrients. And, I don't

personally agree w/ a diet without any animal proteins. Also, vegans and

vegetarians eat way too much soy, esp the processed crap, plus high gluten (that

stuff, forget what it's called), and vegetarians eat too much cow dairy.

I think I did say i'd look for a farmer who treated and killed the animals

humanely, in addition to buying Kosher.

Best!

Liz

> > My conclusion is that people CAN be healthy on any " diet " --

>

> Not really... you can't be healthy on a diet of potato chips and coke.

>

>

>

> > the common element in both vegan and paleo diets is that they stress

> > lots of veggies, fresh food, non processed etc.

>

> Paleo is mostly animal proteins... the veggies are mostly incidental.

>

> > Any American who starts eating more fresh organic veggies and meats,

> > cutting out boxed foods and additives, is going to lose weight most

> > likely and improve their health. even the China Study said that the

> > people studied did eat meat, just not the pounds of it that we do

> > over here - that much animal protein isn't necessary to be healthy or

> > strong (look at the buffalo, what do they eat? grass).

>

> False analogy. People are not buffalos. Cows (buffalos included) have

> two stomachs and are designed to digest grasses... we aren't.

>

> The bottom line is, the vast majority of people need lots of high

> quality animal protein (including organ meats, bone broths, etc) to

> thrive, and most vegetarians/vegans slowly wither away health wise

> unless/until they learn the error of their ways.

>

> Maybe - MAYBE it is possible to thrive without eating animal proteins,

> but the effort and expense are far beyond the average - or even above

> average - person.

>

> I love animals too, but you are wrong about not being able to find

> vendors other than Kosher (or whatever) that raise healthy meats and

> process it humanely. Give your business to them - if enough people did

> this, the big boys would be forced to conform.

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 9:03 AM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> My point w/ the buffalo was just that high protein intake does not

> equate to muscle - vegetables have protein

Most vegetable proteins are difficult to break down/digest for people,

that is the point... a cow can do it because they have two stomachs, and

again, are *designed by nature* to extract vegetable proteins.

> and we don't need animal meat to get enough protein, that is true.

No, it isn't (see above). Besides, protein is only one part of how we

benefit from animal based foods... the high quality *saturated fats* are

just as if not *more* important, and you simply can not get these from

*any* vegetable source, period.

[Guest guest]

Actually, cows have a single stomach, which has four discrete components. Some

people say cows have " four stomachs " but there is only one component that is

analogous to the human stomach (abomasum), and the other three have various

specific functions related to cellulose digestion, fermentation, water/nutrient

absorption, cud formation, etc. So yes, cows are much better equipped for

handling vegetable proteins than we are.

On Sep 14, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

>

> Most vegetable proteins are difficult to break down/digest for people,

> that is the point... a cow can do it because they have two stomachs, and

> again, are *designed by nature* to extract vegetable proteins.

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 9:25 AM, cathylynn2 <cathybuckley@...> wrote:

> Actually, cows have a single stomach, which has four discrete components.

Interesting, I was just going from vague memory of what I'd heard before...

Thanks for enlightening/correcting me (I googled it after your comment

and am now better informed)...

[Guest guest]

I am not sure who wrote that paleo was mostly protein, because that is not

correct. In the Artic, paleo would be mostly fat and meat. In the tropics, a

lot of roots and veggies. It would vary by climate. But anywhere there was

sufficient vegetation, humans got most of their calories from gathering [women

rule!] during the growing seasons and would, by necessity, in places where

winter was cold and snowy, eat what ever they could store, mostly meats and root

vegetables.

Humans would also tend gain weight in the summer when food was plentiful and

varied and loose it in the winter. The opposite of what we do today.

C

________________________________

From: lizz7711 <lizz7711@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 9:03:36 AM

Subject: Re: New to group - weight gain on CO

True, not " any " diet, haha.

My point w/ the buffalo was just that high protein intake does not equate to

muscle - vegetables have protein and we don't need animal meat to get enough

protein, that is true. But, I agree that vegans and vegetarians often do not

eat the way they should to get the right amount of nutrients. And, I don't

personally agree w/ a diet without any animal proteins. Also, vegans and

vegetarians eat way too much soy, esp the processed crap, plus high gluten (that

stuff, forget what it's called), and vegetarians eat too much cow dairy.

I think I did say i'd look for a farmer who treated and killed the animals

humanely, in addition to buying Kosher.

Best!

Liz

> > My conclusion is that people CAN be healthy on any " diet " --

>

> Not really... you can't be healthy on a diet of potato chips and coke.

>

>

>

> > the common element in both vegan and paleo diets is that they stress

> > lots of veggies, fresh food, non processed etc.

>

> Paleo is mostly animal proteins... the veggies are mostly incidental.

>

> > Any American who starts eating more fresh organic veggies and meats,

> > cutting out boxed foods and additives, is going to lose weight most

> > likely and improve their health. even the China Study said that the

> > people studied did eat meat, just not the pounds of it that we do

> > over here - that much animal protein isn't necessary to be healthy or

> > strong (look at the buffalo, what do they eat? grass).

>

> False analogy. People are not buffalos. Cows (buffalos included) have

> two stomachs and are designed to digest grasses... we aren't.

>

> The bottom line is, the vast majority of people need lots of high

> quality animal protein (including organ meats, bone broths, etc) to

> thrive, and most vegetarians/vegans slowly wither away health wise

> unless/until they learn the error of their ways.

>

> Maybe - MAYBE it is possible to thrive without eating animal proteins,

> but the effort and expense are far beyond the average - or even above

> average - person.

>

> I love animals too, but you are wrong about not being able to find

> vendors other than Kosher (or whatever) that raise healthy meats and

> process it humanely. Give your business to them - if enough people did

> this, the big boys would be forced to conform.

>

[Guest guest]

I always thought they had 4 stomachs too. Learn something new every day......

Thanks for enlightening us.

C.

________________________________

From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 9:28:51 AM

Subject: Re: Re: New to group - weight gain on CO

On 2011-09-14 9:25 AM, cathylynn2 <cathybuckley@...> wrote:

> Actually, cows have a single stomach, which has four discrete components.

Interesting, I was just going from vague memory of what I'd heard before...

Thanks for enlightening/correcting me (I googled it after your comment

and am now better informed)...

[Guest guest]

Well, I teach veterinary medicine, so you can say I'm often up to my ears in cow

stomachs! Lol

On Sep 14, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Cody wrote:

> I always thought they had 4 stomachs too. Learn something new every day......

> Thanks for enlightening us.

>

> C.

> ________________________________

> From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...>

> Coconut Oil

> Sent: Wed, September 14, 2011 9:28:51 AM

> Subject: Re: Re: New to group - weight gain on CO

>

>

> On 2011-09-14 9:25 AM, cathylynn2 <cathybuckley@...> wrote:

>> Actually, cows have a single stomach, which has four discrete components.

>

> Interesting, I was just going from vague memory of what I'd heard before...

>

> Thanks for enlightening/correcting me (I googled it after your comment

> and am now better informed)...

[Guest guest]

Are you really trying to say that it's harder for a human to break down

vegetable proteins than red meat? I think most people generally have a harder

time after a steak than after a plate of greens and brown rice : ). Generally,

it's the insoluble fiber that we can't break down in vegetables, not the

protein. Grain proteins like gluten, or casein in cow's milk, ...those are also

hard proteins to break down in their current form. Soy protein would be another

protein that is also difficult for many.

The mct's in CO are saturated fats, but I agree we need the fats found in fish

and eggs too. I think we can safely and very healthily survive on fish, eggs,

vegetables and fruits, nuts and seeds,and limited grains and legumes without

eating any red meat or chicken etc. But, i don't at all think it's necessary or

" best " to avoid all meat, just that it can be done in a healthy way if a person

is smart about it.

The one thing I've learned over these years of studying nutrition, is that

information and understanding is constantly evolving and changing, so I don't

hang my hat on any one paradigm other than that we should eat REAL FOOD without

harmful chemicals and not processed to death!

> > My point w/ the buffalo was just that high protein intake does not

> > equate to muscle - vegetables have protein

>

> Most vegetable proteins are difficult to break down/digest for people,

> that is the point... a cow can do it because they have two stomachs, and

> again, are *designed by nature* to extract vegetable proteins.

>

> > and we don't need animal meat to get enough protein, that is true.

>

> No, it isn't (see above). Besides, protein is only one part of how we

> benefit from animal based foods... the high quality *saturated fats* are

> just as if not *more* important, and you simply can not get these from

> *any* vegetable source, period.

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 11:21 AM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> Are you really trying to say that it's harder for a human to break

> down vegetable proteins than red meat?

Yes - as long as the meat isn't totally destroyed by overcooking. They

should be eaten as close to raw as possible... I tend to cook mine for

only a minute or two per side, so it is effectively 95+% raw...

> I think most people generally have a harder time after a steak than

> after a plate of greens and brown rice

You would be mistaken.

> Generally, it's the insoluble fiber that we can't break down in

> vegetables, not the protein.

Veggies protein content by weight is tiny compared to meats.

> Grain proteins like gluten, or casein in cow's milk, ...those are

> also hard proteins to break down in their current form.

Casein can be problematic for some, but I'm not a big milk advocate (raw

cream and butter is an exception, they are very healthy, unless you have

an allergy or something).

Generally agree with the rest...

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz, if you use the Ketostix you really don't need a specific diet but if you

think it would help you can select one from here:

http://www.everydiet.org/diet/low-carb-diets

The reason I feel you need this is because you were gaining weight using coconut

oil, which should not happen if you are metabolizing properly. I, too, am

hypothyroid but can loose weight with a low-carb, high fat diet, which promotes

ketosis (fat burning mode). The beauty of using the Ketostix is that you can

adjust your carbs to just below the point where you cease to be in ketosis.

And I would continue using coconut oil as it is a complete and natural oil. I'm

not totally sold on the MCT oil - especially not as a REPLACEMENT for coconut

oil. While it's relatively tasteless and may work well in salads, it doesn't

work well in high heat cooking nor does it have the flavor of coconut oil.

Chicken breasts taste great sauteed in coconut oil as do greens sprinkled with

garlic powder and herbs.

Also, you don't have to eat a LOT of meat. Other sources of good protein are

eggs, cheese, yogurt, nuts, seafood, and whey. Once you have lost the weight

you can add back a few GOOD carbs (sweet potatoes, beans, beets, a bit of

oatmeal, risotto, couscous). But keep taking the coconut oil. If you start to

gain you know you have to cut back on the carbs. Use the Ketostix to determine

how much.

Another trick is to take a break and treat yourself to a piece of pizza and/ or

desert once every week or two.

Best,

Dee

>

> Hi Dee,

>

> Wow, well I'm going to think about this...is there a good website you

recommend for info on the Ketogenic diet? How long would I need to do it for,

just until I lose the weight? Is it likely to stress my adrenals/thyroid or

will it somehow reverse the problem there? How many carbs would be enough for

one day on this plan, and would I still use coc oil or rather MCT oil as Duncan

recommended?

>

> thanks,

> Liz

>