Re: New to group - weight gain on CO

[Guest guest]

@Liz, I'm glad you're making the distinction between bad " dairy " and good whey;

just checking 'coz it's so important ...my New Zealand whey is from Kaizen

Naturals.

all good,

Duncan

>

> When I talk about plant vs animal protein, i'm not really talking about whey,

since I know that is a separated out dairy protein...but more in comparing

eating real foods, meat/beef versus vegetables, and how my body digests them.

But anyway, I am going to try the whey, and I hear you on the radiation issue,

yikes! Do you mind sharing who you buy your Whey from ? I'll support New

Zealand anytime...i've been there twice since I used to live in Singapore, and

it's the most beautiful country on earth.

>

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 1:32 PM, Dolores <dgk@...> wrote:

> In Coconut Oil , " Duncan Crow " wrote:

>> Dee, the Atkins book I have actually restricts carbs and calories by

>> virtue of advocating protein, fat, and low-carb veggies. Even so, if you

>> went into ketosis on it it would probably be accidental. I like Atkins'

>> approach but I like Brad Kings Fat Wars approach more. It does not

>> deliberately put you into ketosis either.

> Also, I don't understand why you are now against ketosis when earlier

> on you were touting it's benefits for altzheimers.

More comprehension issues? Nowhere in the above did Duncan say he was

'against ketosis'.

sheesh

[Guest guest]

Duncan, you can promote inulin till you're blue in the face. Never worked for

me.

Dee

>

> The experience of many others as well as my own however is that an

anti-candida diet with inulin is indeed a weight loss diet that allows the

thyroid and adrenals to " heal " , if you like that word, or otherwise recover

normal function. There really isn't much more to it and the reliability of the

approach speaks for itself.

>

[Guest guest]

T, I was on that diet myself when it first came out. In no way was it 500

calories. I think I know how to count calories - which I did at the time. Do you

have any idea how difficult it would be to be on 500 calories a day if you eat

protein 3 or more times a day plus lots of fat? Do the math. And stop with the

reading/comprehension accusations already and crawl back into your cave, ok?

Dee

> > Duncan, no matter how you want to slice it, Atkins does not restrict the

> > diet to 500 calories as you claimed;

>

> He didn't claim that (got bit by the old reading/comprehension bug

> again?) - he claimed that about " the ketogenic diet " ...

>

[Guest guest]

@Dee, are you corroboratingh that you have had candidiasis all this time, years

in fact, despite staying on an anti-candida diet with inulin?

The demonstrated and repeatable bifidogenic effect of inulin remains undisputed,

and now that I've seen more than 2500 cured of dysbiosis, your effort must have

been lacking somehow I think, and it would be interesting to discover where.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan, you can promote inulin till you're blue in the face. Never worked for

me.

>

> Dee

>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad I never got any clients like you, Dee.

all good,

Duncan

> > > Duncan, no matter how you want to slice it, Atkins does not restrict the

> > > diet to 500 calories as you claimed;

> >

> > He didn't claim that (got bit by the old reading/comprehension bug

> > again?) - he claimed that about " the ketogenic diet " ...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 3:07 PM, Dolores <dgk@...> wrote:

> T, I was on that diet myself when it first came out. In no way was it

> 500 calories.

Google " the ketogenic diet "

Tons of references to " 500 calories per day "

> I think I know how to count calories - which I did at the time. Do

> you have any idea how difficult it would be to be on 500 calories a

> day if you eat protein 3 or more times a day plus lots of fat?

Irrelevant to the point that most references to 'the ketogenic diet'

talk about '500 calories per day'.

> And stop with the reading/comprehension accusations already

When you stop exhibiting said problems I'll stop pointing them out.

> and crawl back into your cave, ok?

Naah, I'm quite comfy in here... bye now...

<turns and yells>

Woman! Bring me another turkey leg!

[Guest guest]

Duncan, I no longer have any gut dysbiosis due to my diet.

Dee

> >

> > Duncan, you can promote inulin till you're blue in the face. Never worked

for me.

> >

> > Dee

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Indeed @Dee, what T said. You misread again and I'm not " against ketosis " . I

studied the cyclical ketogenic diet (CKG) used in body building, with particular

attention to using it for more muscle definition, getting " ripped " . Body

builders have a very specific formula that has been working for many years, so

allowing for the weight of their experience over yours Dee, going into ketosis

may involve eating no carbs at all. Literally, about 500 calories a day.

(Quote): " Two weeks without carbs is too much for me, but since it takes me 5

days to reach ketosis it's what I have to do. Another week to go, then carb-up,

then two weeks of keto and so on... " :

<http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php/t-127328813.html>

(Quote): " I switched over to KETO or CKD (Cyclic Ketogenic Diet), it is a diet

consisting mainly of proteins and fats and very little to none carbohydrates.

....I follow this protein-fat diet for six days (Sunday through Friday) and on

the 7th day of the week I have protein and carbohydrates and limit my fat

intake. By following this kind of program it allows me a lot of freedom on the

7th day and almost all low fat carbohydrate sources are good. " :

<http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tracy3.htm>

(Quote): " The Standard Ketogenic Diet (SKD) is the sort of diet that anyone who

hasn't been dieting should adopt in the first phase of any diet ...Technically,

like Atkins induction phase of 2+ weeks, carbohydrates should number about 20

grams daily. That's hard to do, considering that even high fat nuts have

carbohydrates. It usually represents about 2 servings of green vegetables and

two moderate sized green salads over the course of one day, along with protein.

" :

<http://www.trainwiser.com/f105/ketogenic-diets-3-type-what-they-can-do-you-5763\

/>

So I think the 500 calorie observation stands up to scrutiny OK. I'd go with the

professional body builders on this one.

all good,

Duncan

>

> > Also, I don't understand why you are now against ketosis when earlier

> > on you were touting it's benefits for altzheimers.

>

> More comprehension issues? Nowhere in the above did Duncan say he was

> 'against ketosis'.

>

> sheesh

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan, where on ANY of those sites does it mention 500 calories? Just add up

the calories of the recommended foods and do the math.

Dee

> >

> > > Also, I don't understand why you are now against ketosis when earlier

> > > on you were touting it's benefits for altzheimers.

> >

> > More comprehension issues? Nowhere in the above did Duncan say he was

> > 'against ketosis'.

> >

> > sheesh

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I understand that you have no idea if or how much of a role the inulin played

but I can tell you that research established that after 14 days on 15-20 grams

daily the bifidobacteria were dominant. The numbers of the increase were

quantified in several other similar studies. Above 20 grams there were no

additional benefits.

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > Duncan, you can promote inulin till you're blue in the face. Never worked

for me.

> > >

> > > Dee

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The post you are commenting on below, " carbohydrates should number about 20

grams daily. " as I read it, is only 80 calories in this case. Sound like less

than 500 to you as it does to me? Read and heed.

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > > Also, I don't understand why you are now against ketosis when earlier

> > > > on you were touting it's benefits for altzheimers.

> > >

> > > More comprehension issues? Nowhere in the above did Duncan say he was

> > > 'against ketosis'.

> > >

> > > sheesh

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What happens Liz on a low-carb diet is when probiotics are fed better by leaving

out the carbs, a diet that has a higher percentage of inulin because it's in

many foods, the probiotics then restore ecology, which reduces pathogens and

their toxin load. The reduced toxin load reduces the fight-or-flee hormones

adrenaline and cortisol, and allows the thyroid to work properly again. Toxins

are thyroid-suppressive and adrenal-stimulating, as physical stressors are. In

my experience the ladies can then go off thyroid and adrenal support because the

levels/outputs aren't so jacked around and the system stabilises. The low-carb

diet is usually a lifestyle decision as opposed to temporary.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Ok thanks. So, the idea with this is to kick your body into fat-burning

mode...then once you're down to more normal weight, re-introduce some complex

carbs, but stick w/low carb generally. Does this " heal " the thyroid/adrenals?

Have people been able to go off and stay off of thyroid and adrenal meds using

this approach?

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan, what do the carbohydrates have to do with it - you are failing to add up

the recommended protein and fats (the major parts) in these diets. Again - do

the math. You obviously haven't read any of these in detail. Here is just one of

the recommended menus that you yourself have reverenced:

09-05-2010, 05:04 PM

Week days

6:00am

2 eggs 160 kcal 1g 12g 12g

10:00am

20g brazil nuts 128 kcal 2g 2g 12g

12:30pm

150g steak 445 kcal 0g 37g 31g

3:30pm Pre-Workout

100g turkey sliced 106kcal 0g 22g 1g

5:00pm Post-Workout

30g flaxseed 165 kcal 1g 6g 12g

100g yogurt 62kcal 11g 4g 0g

100g chicken 225 kcal 0g 32g 3g

7:00pm

100g chicken 225 kcal 0g 32g 3g

10:00pm

100g mozzarella 286kcal 4g 20g 20g

Extra

50ml olive oil 432kcal 0g 0g 48g

12g jello 36kcal 0g 8g 0g

3g trident 5kcal 2g 0g 0g

3-6L water

100g Broccoli, Lettuce

Total: 2300 kcal 21g 171g 144g

Now I'm not a man or a body builder so this is way more than I would eat - but

500 calories is way less.

Dee

>

> The post you are commenting on below, " carbohydrates should number about 20

grams daily. " as I read it, is only 80 calories in this case. Sound like less

than 500 to you as it does to me? Read and heed.

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

[Guest guest]

Why? My understanding is that concentrate was better...isolated proteins are

not good either - MSG effect.

> > I found that Source Naturals has an organic whey (concentrate) that has

> > nothing added at all - have you heard of it?

>

> You should be looking for a high quality whey ISOLATE, not

> CONCENTRATE... two very different things...

>

[Guest guest]

If I can jump in here (obviously I don't hve experience w/ these diet plans

yet), but it seems to me that what Dee is saying is that you can restrict carbs

and eat high protein and high fat and consume way more than 500 calories per

day. Whey, eggs,meat, coconut oil,cheese and bunches of lettuce and greens can

all add up to a couple thousand calories if you eat enough of it. Isn't that

true? That seems to me to be what she is advocating...ketogenic (high protein

high fat low carb), but not calorie restricted...isn't this possible?

Liz

> > > >

> > > > > Also, I don't understand why you are now against ketosis when earlier

> > > > > on you were touting it's benefits for altzheimers.

> > > >

> > > > More comprehension issues? Nowhere in the above did Duncan say he was

> > > > 'against ketosis'.

> > > >

> > > > sheesh

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Duncan. Is there a recommended amount of MCT oil per day that will increase

ketones?

[Guest guest]

Yes Liz, it IS possible.

You have a good handle on it.

If you can handle it for a week, NO carbs and LOW fat will be quite

dramatic.

After that, adjust carbs and fat according to your daily weigh-in.

Chuck

When I got home last night, my wife demanded that I take her someplace

expensive...

so, I took her to a gas station.

On 9/14/2011 7:47:20 PM, lizz7711 (lizz7711@...) wrote:

> If I can jump in here (obviously I

> don't hve experience w/ these diet plans yet), but it seems to me that what

Dee is saying is that you can restrict carbs and eat high protein and high fat

and consume way more than 500 calories per day. Whey, eggs,meat, coconut

oil,cheese and bunches of lettuce and greens can all add up to a couple thousand

calories if you eat enough of it. Isn't

> that true? That seems to me to be what she is advocating...ketogenic

> (high protein high fat low carb), but not calorie restricted...

> isn't this possi

[Guest guest]

In this case Dee I posted a forum thread on one fella's diet that body builders

commonly use to lose weight, the CKD. This should interest Liz. What carbs have

to do with it is precisely nothing in this case; if they are present they

scuttle his program of enforcing ketosis so they are avoided. Note there are no

carbs at all in this fellas fare, yet it still takes 5 days to get ketosis

going.

The 2x 500 calorie diets I posted about are in a different thread.

all good,

Duncan

> >

> > The post you are commenting on below, " carbohydrates should number about 20

grams daily. " as I read it, is only 80 calories in this case. Sound like less

than 500 to you as it does to me? Read and heed.

> >

> > all good,

> >

> > Duncan

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Chuck. Well said. And as usual you have restored my sanity with your

understanding and, of course, the added chuckle :-)

Best,

Dee

> > If I can jump in here (obviously I

> > don't hve experience w/ these diet plans yet), but it seems to me that what

Dee is saying is that you can restrict carbs and eat high protein and high fat

and consume way more than 500 calories per day. Whey, eggs,meat, coconut

oil,cheese and bunches of lettuce and greens can all add up to a couple thousand

calories if you eat enough of it. Isn't

> > that true? That seems to me to be what she is advocating...ketogenic

> > (high protein high fat low carb), but not calorie restricted...

> > isn't this possi

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 7:22 PM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> Why? My understanding is that concentrate was better...isolated proteins

> are not good either - MSG effect.

Your understanding is flawed.

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-14 7:47 PM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> it seems to me that what Dee is saying is that you can restrict carbs

> and eat high protein and high fat and consume way more than 500 calories

> per day. Whey, eggs,meat, coconut oil,cheese and bunches of lettuce and

> greens can all add up to a couple thousand calories if you eat enough of

> it. Isn't that true? That seems to me to be what she is

> advocating...ketogenic (high protein high fat low carb), but not calorie

> restricted...isn't this possible?

After doing some more research I'd have to agree with you on this one...

I had really never heard of 'the ketogenic diet' before this thread, but

yes, it is mostly about severely restricting the carbs.

But, everything I've read says you also want to restrict calories as

well, but I've seen very few references to restricting it TO ONLY 500

calories per day, and a lot of references to restricting it BY AS MUCH

AS 500 calories - meaning, reducing your NORMAL daily calorie intake by

about 500 calories (so, if you normally eat 2000 calories, reduce it to

1500), while staying as close to ZERO carbs as possible for a short

time, then slowly reintroducing SOME carbs over some period of time.

Mostly it seems to depend on the current state of health of the person -

ie, how overweight they are, and any other health problems they may have.

[Guest guest]

Ok, well thanks explanating how my understanding is " flawed " ...are you normally

so friendly? ; )

That's ok though, i'll do more research...I tend to trust Dr. Blaylock who is a

neurosurgeon of 25 yrs and states that isolated proteins are neurotoxic to the

brain though.

I'd like to know whether Duncan feels that isolate whey is better than

concentrate (undenatured).

> > Why? My understanding is that concentrate was better...isolated proteins

> > are not good either - MSG effect.

>

> Your understanding is flawed.

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-09-15 7:45 AM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote:

> Ok, well thanks explanating how my understanding is " flawed " ...are you

> normally so friendly? ; )

Yep... sometimes even more so...

> That's ok though, i'll do more research...

That's the only way...

> I tend to trust Dr. Blaylock who is a neurosurgeon of 25 yrs and

> states that isolated proteins are neurotoxic to the brain though.

I tend to not trust most doctors at all, and very few others, but rather

trust in my own judgement.

[Guest guest]

I'm with you when it comes to not trusting most doctors and doing your own

research and coming to conclusions...however, Dr. Blaylock is also against the

" establishment " - his book about Excitotoxins which exposes how dangerous

aspartame and MSG and other such additives are to the human brain and

neurological system has been ignored by mainstream medicine, even though he

gives over 500 citations/research articles proving everything he says. So, he

is one that I DO trust. Check him out here: http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

So, my friendly friend : ) Could you explain why YOU feel isolate is better

than concentrate?

Oh, also BTW, I think we have to admit our own weaknesses...it's fine to make

our own judgements, as long as we realize they might be completely wrong since

our understanding of chemistry and how the cells work is limited and we're not

God either ; )

To health!

> > Ok, well thanks explanating how my understanding is " flawed " ...are you

> > normally so friendly? ; )

>

> Yep... sometimes even more so...

>

> > That's ok though, i'll do more research...

>

> That's the only way...

>

> > I tend to trust Dr. Blaylock who is a neurosurgeon of 25 yrs and

> > states that isolated proteins are neurotoxic to the brain though.

>

> I tend to not trust most doctors at all, and very few others, but rather

> trust in my own judgement.

>