Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Just as I thought, no ketones in the AM..... ________________________________ From: Cody <lecody2001@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sat, September 17, 2011 7:07:50 PM Subject: Ketone Report Just as an interim report... today I had about 2TBS MCT and 1 tbs VCO and this evening I showed a small to moderate amount of ketones, which is more than I ever did on the atkins diet. I am going to guess that by morning there won't be any... let you know, assuming I remember... Then tommorrow I will use MCT oil exclusively... and check again in the evening and morning... should be interesting. ________________________________ From: Dolores <dgk@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sat, September 17, 2011 6:07:22 PM Subject: Re: New to group - weight gain on CO Sure, a mix is fine. Just let us know how much of each you are taking. Thanks, Dee > > > > > > > > MCT oils are not stored but burned, and burning them produces ketones. >So, > > >the 12% capric and caprylic acid oil in coconut oil will color a ketone test > >stick a bit even if you haven't forced your body into ketosis. Perhaps that > >observation will be useful to Dee as well. > > > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at all. Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make ketosticks unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings within a few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. all good, DUncan > > > > > > > > > > MCT oils are not stored but burned, and burning them produces ketones. > >So, > > > > >the 12% capric and caprylic acid oil in coconut oil will color a ketone test > > >stick a bit even if you haven't forced your body into ketosis. Perhaps that > > >observation will be useful to Dee as well. > > > > > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Duncan The reason I thought that there would be no ketones in the am is because of the short life of MCT oil. So not being on a low carb diet, I was thinking I would only through off ketones with in a few hours after ingesting mct. ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 11:09:17 AM Subject: Re: Ketone Report As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at all. Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make ketosticks unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings within a few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. all good, DUncan > > > > > > > > > > MCT oils are not stored but burned, and burning them produces ketones. > >So, > > > > >the 12% capric and caprylic acid oil in coconut oil will color a ketone test > > > >stick a bit even if you haven't forced your body into ketosis. Perhaps that > > >observation will be useful to Dee as well. > > > > > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yup, and I agree that one will throw off ketones in response to diet whether or not one is " in ketosis " , as opposed to a metabolic change in which one throws off ketones all the time. It just shows the keto sticks are responsive to dietary oil consumption and maybe not to be used as a medical guide to indicate whether one is in ketosis. I think this satisfies Dee's question, since you eat carbs and still give off ketones. all good, Duncan > > > > > > > > > > > > MCT oils are not stored but burned, and burning them produces ketones. > > > >So, > > > > > > >the 12% capric and caprylic acid oil in coconut oil will color a ketone test > > > > > >stick a bit even if you haven't forced your body into ketosis. Perhaps that > > > > >observation will be useful to Dee as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Well it does indicate that she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is burning ketones - not sure about that. It's been a long time since I was on a strict Atkins diet. I do remember, though, that my ketones were on the high end when I was losing weight. I now eat a very moderate carb/protein/fat diet and no ketones on the stick at any time of day - even though I am consuming coconut oil (@ 2-3 TBS a day). At the moment my weight is stable. I'm 5'8 " at 140 lbs. Also, I have to wonder if doesn't have a special situation as I have never heard of anyone not showing ketones somewhere on the test while on the Atkins diet. And no, it's not a PERFECT tool, but it is a help as you are adjusting your carbs upward after being on very low carbs because everyone is different and will require more or less. Dee > > > > Duncan > > > > The reason I thought that there would be no ketones in the am is because of the > > short life of MCT oil. So not being on a low carb diet, I was thinking I would > > only through off ketones with in a few hours after ingesting mct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@> > > Coconut Oil > > Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 11:09:17 AM > > Subject: Re: Ketone Report > > > > > > As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at all. > > Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make ketosticks > > unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high > > ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings within a > > few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. > > > > all good, > > > > DUncan > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 When she's throwing off ketones she's apparently burning the MCT oil. Once the MCT oil has burned off and the ketone level in the urine drops off, she's not really in ketosis as in burning her own body fat; it means she continues to also burn carbs. I thought that's what you might have been seeing in your own measurements Dee, using the keto sticks and a fatty diet including coconut oil. Because one still burns carbs one will probably also still store fat. Maybe this explains why people can gain weight on coconut oil despite its legendary use of slimming down on it. all good, Duncan > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > The reason I thought that there would be no ketones in the am is because of the > > > short life of MCT oil. So not being on a low carb diet, I was thinking I would > > > only through off ketones with in a few hours after ingesting mct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@> > > > Coconut Oil > > > Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 11:09:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: Ketone Report > > > > > > > > > As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at all. > > > Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make ketosticks > > > unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high > > > ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings within a > > > few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > DUncan > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Duncan, Note that the MCT oil is not causing her to lose weight and the coconut oil (which I take) is not causing me to gain (store fat) - so there's got to more to it than the type of oil. Dee > > > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > > > The reason I thought that there would be no ketones in the am is because of the > > > > short life of MCT oil. So not being on a low carb diet, I was thinking I would > > > > only through off ketones with in a few hours after ingesting mct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@> > > > > Coconut Oil > > > > Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 11:09:17 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Ketone Report > > > > > > > > > > > > As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at all. > > > > Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make ketosticks > > > > unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high > > > > ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings within a > > > > few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. > > > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > > > DUncan > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 I have to agree with Dee on this one. If you are in ketoacidosis, it should show up in the morning. Atkins always said to test in the AM... I think this small, anecdotal test shows that MCT oil will spill ketones into the urine, which means it is being burned up right away and not stored. So you do get an extra burst of energy. Makes me happy, I have enough stored fat.... And thanks for noting how special I am Dee. I like to think I am special and sensitive..... ________________________________ From: Dolores <dgk@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 2:22:56 PM Subject: Re: Ketone Report Well it does indicate that she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is burning ketones - not sure about that. It's been a long time since I was on a strict Atkins diet. I do remember, though, that my ketones were on the high end when I was losing weight. I now eat a very moderate carb/protein/fat diet and no ketones on the stick at any time of day - even though I am consuming coconut oil (@ 2-3 TBS a day). At the moment my weight is stable. I'm 5'8 " at 140 lbs. Also, I have to wonder if doesn't have a special situation as I have never heard of anyone not showing ketones somewhere on the test while on the Atkins diet. And no, it's not a PERFECT tool, but it is a help as you are adjusting your carbs upward after being on very low carbs because everyone is different and will require more or less. Dee > > > > Duncan > > > > The reason I thought that there would be no ketones in the am is because of >the > > > short life of MCT oil. So not being on a low carb diet, I was thinking I >would > > > only through off ketones with in a few hours after ingesting mct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@> > > Coconut Oil > > Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 11:09:17 AM > > Subject: Re: Ketone Report > > > > > > As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at all. > > > Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make ketosticks > > > unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high > > ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings within >a > > > few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. > > > > all good, > > > > DUncan > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 I agreed too by observing that if ketones are low in the AM you've burned up the oils without putting yourself in ketosis, and if ketones are high while you're burning oils it doesn't mean you've triggered ketosis through a ketogenic diet but can be simply burning the oils and producing some ketones. This would be why fat loss doesn't always occur in response to MCT oil or VCO, and also why keto sticks are an unreliable indicator of whether one is in ketosis as opposed to just burning some MCT oil. all good, Duncan > > I have to agree with Dee on this one. If you are in ketoacidosis, it should > show up in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Unless you weren't taking any VCO or MCT oil.... then it should be accurate.. but even so Duncan, I would think a positive morning test should indicate that your in fat burning mode. I tell you, I think I would have to down a lot of VCO/MCT oil to have a morning positive without being on a low carb diet. No, I won't volunteer for that one... C. ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 5:08:43 PM Subject: Re: Ketone Report I agreed too by observing that if ketones are low in the AM you've burned up the oils without putting yourself in ketosis, and if ketones are high while you're burning oils it doesn't mean you've triggered ketosis through a ketogenic diet but can be simply burning the oils and producing some ketones. This would be why fat loss doesn't always occur in response to MCT oil or VCO, and also why keto sticks are an unreliable indicator of whether one is in ketosis as opposed to just burning some MCT oil. all good, Duncan > > I have to agree with Dee on this one. If you are in ketoacidosis, it should > show up in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 I think you're still missing the point here Duncan - at least from my own experience, and that of many, many others who have been on a ketogenic diet. But there's no sense continuing to argue just for the sake of argument. The diet and the ketostiks works for most - though perhaps not all. My point, however, is that it is the diet - not the type of oil that is used - that is the primary determinant of weight loss or gain; therefore, I would place MCT oil in the overly hyped area for weight loss along with VCO (not that it doesn't have it's advantages as has attested to already). Dee > > > > I have to agree with Dee on this one. If you are in ketoacidosis, it should > > show up in the morning. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 I agree, Duncan. To prove the premise, one would inject the 500 calorie low carb diet here. The sequence of use would be MCT directly burned, any available carbs, and then because of such low calorie count in the diet, any dietary fat, and finally stored fat. If ketone indication stays, you're into the fat stores. Chuck For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain. On 9/18/2011 3:01:59 PM, Duncan Crow (duncancrow@...) wrote: > When she's throwing off ketones she's apparently burning the MCT oil. Once > the MCT oil has burned off and the ketone level in the urine drops off, > she's not really in ketosis as in burning her own body fat; it means she continues to also burn carbs. I thought that's > what you might have been seeing in your own measurements Dee, using the > keto sticks and a fatty diet including coconut oil. Because one still > burns carbs one will probably also still store fat. Maybe this explains why > people can gain weight on coconut oil despite its legendary use of > slimming down on it. > > all good, > > Duncan > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 I've had no CO or MCT oil since yesterday morning. Low carb and pretty low calorie (not nearly as low as 500). Tonight's ketone level was " small " at 7pm. Will test again at 11, when it has typically been the highest over the last few days. Liz > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Ketosis is different from ketoacidosis...can't remember the details off the top of my head, but keotacidosis is a very bad state to have in the body, while ketosis is not. Liz > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > The reason I thought that there would be no ketones in the am is because of > >the > > > > > short life of MCT oil. So not being on a low carb diet, I was thinking I > >would > > > > > only through off ketones with in a few hours after ingesting mct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@> > > > Coconut Oil > > > Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 11:09:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: Ketone Report > > > > > > > > > As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at all. > > > > > Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make ketosticks > > > > > unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high > > > ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings within > >a > > > > > few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > DUncan > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 update: after eating dinner, 45 min later did another ketone test. dinner was a couple sardines w/ 2 tsp mayo, bowl of arugula salad w/ 3 small round of mozz cheese, basil vinaigrette, and 1/8 c. zucchini. Ketones more strongly in the " small " range. It'll be interesting to see what it is in the morning...so far every morning it's always been negative. But, when sleeping our bodies are not burning much energy Liz > > > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > > > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 ok, so now it's 10:50, ketones are firmly in the " moderate " range. I'm burning fat, yay! All I can say is, I better be after how little i've been eating for 7 days now! My prediction is it will be normal in the morning, but we'll see, i'll let ya'll know Liz > > > > > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > > > > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 " moderate " at 6:50am! Cool...burning fat all night : ) So now my question is what is the healthiest range to be in? Don't want to get sick or hurt my body...is it best to eat just low enough carbs to be in the small or moderate range, or do you wANT it to be " large " numbers of ketones? Liz > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > > > > > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 probably, the words are so close.... but I am pretty sure, according to Atkins, you need positive ketones in the morning... C. ________________________________ From: lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 9:03:14 PM Subject: Re: Ketone Report Ketosis is different from ketoacidosis...can't remember the details off the top of my head, but keotacidosis is a very bad state to have in the body, while ketosis is not. Liz > > > > > > Duncan > > > > > > The reason I thought that there would be no ketones in the am is because of > > >the > > > > > short life of MCT oil. So not being on a low carb diet, I was thinking I > >would > > > > > only through off ketones with in a few hours after ingesting mct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@> > > > Coconut Oil > > > Sent: Sun, September 18, 2011 11:09:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: Ketone Report > > > > > > > > > As I thought too: the ketosticks indicate whether one is burning fats at >all. > > > > > > Whether one is " in ketosis " is a separate question. Does that make >ketosticks > > > > > > unreliable as a diagnostic tool? In a word, yes, IMO. If you still had high > > > > ketone levels in the AM it might indicate ketosis, but taking readings >within > > >a > > > > > few hours after a meal won't produce reliable results. > > > > > > all good, > > > > > > DUncan > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 On 2011-09-18 5:08 PM, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote: > This would be why fat loss doesn't always occur in response to MCT oil > or VCO, and also why keto sticks are an unreliable indicator of whether > one is in ketosis as opposed to just burning some MCT oil. Actually, after reading the back and forth on this, you are drawing an improper conclusion Duncan. It is the *proper use* of the keto sticks that would determine whether or not you can rely on what they are telling you. Yes, using them after a meal won't be reliable, but using them in the AM, after a full night of sleep (and not eating) *will* (ie, if you are still throwing off ketones in the morning, you *are* really in ketosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Yaaay! Good job Liz. Keep doing what you are doing for at least another week and see how that goes. You want to be in the moderate to high range if possible. And don't let that word ketoacidosis worry you. As long as you are not a Type 1 diabetic (and missjudge your insulin injections), you do not have to worry about ketoacidosis. Now that you have proven that the diet was responsible for the ketosis you can add back some oil. You don't want to be on low CALORIES for too long or your body will interpret that as starving and slow your metabolism down even more. I wouldn't go below 1200. At this point you might want to go to the Atkins official site and sign up for their free weight loss kit. The site also explains the different phases and you can check out the science behind it. While there are other low-carb versions, this is a great place to start on your weight loss journey. Bon Yoyage! http://www.atkins.com/Homepage.aspx Dee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > > > > > > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I agree, a positive morning ketone test should indicate fat-burning mode (ketosis). Conversely, a positive test after eating MCT oil does not, because MCT oil is preferentially burned regardless of whether one is triggered into in fat burning mode for the rest of your fat. So, except for the AM reading that may be valid, keto sticks are an unreliable indicator of ketosis because they respond also when one isn't in ketosis, but burning oils normally. I disagreed with the reliability of ketosticks as an indicator of ketosis based on that information. all good, Duncan > > Unless you weren't taking any VCO or MCT oil.... then it should be accurate.. > but even so Duncan, I would think a positive morning test should indicate that > your in fat burning mode. > > > I tell you, I think I would have to down a lot of VCO/MCT oil to have a morning > positive without being on a low carb diet. No, I won't volunteer for that > one... > > C. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 If anything Dee, coconut oil has been overhyped based on the MCT research; it's the other way around. Remember, most of the " coconut oil research " you refer to was actually done with MCT oil, not coocnut oil, which is 50% lauric acid and only 12% MCT? These studies are often attributed to coocnut oil to overhype coconut oil. MCT oil produces a lot of energy and improves lucidity and cognition in an aging population, even to the point of improving alzheimer's. It's clearly an anti-aging tool. We can rely on the actual and researched attributes of MCT oil, while in contrast, falsely attributing certain MCT properties to coconut oil (overhyping coconut oil) does everyone a disservice. I didn't miss the point you tried to make. You were not " in ketosis " by virtue of eating coconut or MCT oil; the readings must be taken at rest rather than in response to eating MCT oils. Your observation of ketosisd based on your " MCT experience " may not have even been valid because you haven't been shown to be in ketosis by those keto stick readings. all good, Duncan > > I think you're still missing the point here Duncan - at least from my own experience, and that of many, many others who have been on a ketogenic diet. But there's no sense continuing to argue just for the sake of argument. > > The diet and the ketostiks works for most - though perhaps not all. My point, however, is that it is the diet - not the type of oil that is used - that is the primary determinant of weight loss or gain; therefore, I would place MCT oil in the overly hyped area for weight loss along with VCO (not that it doesn't have it's advantages as has attested to already). > > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Exactly what I was saying, T, I attempted several times in fact. Proper use of keto sticks may be an indicator of ketosis: the AM reading or any reading when a person is triggering ketosis with low carb low fat as Chuck suggested. Not useful to check after a high fat meal or MCT oil. All good, Duncna >It is the *proper use* of the keto sticks > that would determine whether or not you can rely on what they are > telling you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for the encouragement, Dee! Good reminders about not going into starvation mode...I think i'm probably eating around 1200, but i've never been a calorie counter, and not likely to start now, but I am writing down what i'm eating each day. So far, it really has not been too hard. I think i'm just ready to do it, so the willpower is there. I think i'll stay off teh MCT/CO for a bit longer to make sure i'm continuing to eat low enough carbs to burn fat. Although, it sounds like at least even if I do eat CO, if i'm low enough on carbs, I should still see ketones in the a.m that would only be attributed to being in ketosis? I signed up on Atkins to get their free stuff. Free is good. Not really planning to follow their plan, but the resources will be good anyway, thanks for the tip. Liz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > > > > > > > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Sorry but I'm confused.......Are you saying MCT Oil is better for you than VCO when it comes to general health, cognition, cholesterol lowering, etc? From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 9:56 AM Subject: Re: Ketone Report  If anything Dee, coconut oil has been overhyped based on the MCT research; it's the other way around. Remember, most of the " coconut oil research " you refer to was actually done with MCT oil, not coocnut oil, which is 50% lauric acid and only 12% MCT? These studies are often attributed to coocnut oil to overhype coconut oil. MCT oil produces a lot of energy and improves lucidity and cognition in an aging population, even to the point of improving alzheimer's. It's clearly an anti-aging tool. We can rely on the actual and researched attributes of MCT oil, while in contrast, falsely attributing certain MCT properties to coconut oil (overhyping coconut oil) does everyone a disservice. I didn't miss the point you tried to make. You were not " in ketosis " by virtue of eating coconut or MCT oil; the readings must be taken at rest rather than in response to eating MCT oils. Your observation of ketosisd based on your " MCT experience " may not have even been valid because you haven't been shown to be in ketosis by those keto stick readings. all good, Duncan > > I think you're still missing the point here Duncan - at least from my own experience, and that of many, many others who have been on a ketogenic diet. But there's no sense continuing to argue just for the sake of argument. > > The diet and the ketostiks works for most - though perhaps not all. My point, however, is that it is the diet - not the type of oil that is used - that is the primary determinant of weight loss or gain; therefore, I would place MCT oil in the overly hyped area for weight loss along with VCO (not that it doesn't have it's advantages as has attested to already). > > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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