Guest guest Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hi Liz, The only time my muscles hurt is if I haven't been walking for awhile and then start up again, and the only joint pain I have is specific to one knee and one hip (osteoarthritis) - no relation to diet. There IS casein in whey. Are you sensitive to it? Also, are you sure you are getting enough vitamins and minerals? At any rate I would try to keep going and work through this. Just go easy and your body will adjust. And don't let yourself get hungry. Eat every couple of hours if you have to. Best, Dee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well it does indicate that > > > > > > > > she's burning fats, right? The question is - is she just burning the fats she is eating or burning excess body fat as well? Apparently it is only the former. That would require an adjustment to the diet and (according to the science and the majority of experience) that would happen by eliminating carbs: > > > > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceBehindAtkins.aspx and > > > > > > > > > http://www.atkins.com/Science/ScienceArticlesLibrary/NotableResearch.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps a morning reading WOULD indicate that the body is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 On 2011-09-20 8:41 PM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote: > My muscles and joints are all hurting. I'm startng to think that > going this low carb is not good for the body...maybe that's why ya'll > need the MSM, lol Is it possible my body is burning some fat but > also muscle for energy? Most weight loss plans lead to loss of muscle > weight. Or, maybe it's the whey and there is some casein in it. > Frustrated... Don't be - this could actually be a *good* sign... while not *all* negative symptoms are 'detox reactions', many are, and indeed, the old saying sometimes things will get worse before they start getting better is very often correct when dealing with healing the body. While only you know if you really are getting all of the nutrients you need - and it is important that you do - as long as you are, that is most likely what isgoing on (detox/cleansing reactions)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks Dee and Tans, The whey that I got does not actually say " casein free " on it, so it very well could be that since i am sensitive and will get joint pain if I eat too much cow's milk products. I'm still researching the different wheys out there, i'm either going to get the BioChem one which i'll double check but I think they advertise it as casein free, or the Source naturals organic one. All the other ones i've seen have ingredients I don't want in them or have hydrolyzed whey. I also think maybe it is detox, esp since I really haven't lost any weight and still feel bloated (not constipated)...i'm guessing it's the candida/dysbiosis that Duncan talked about. I ordered my inulin and am waiting for it to be delivered...but have been taking the selenium and whey and occasionally probiotics. I'll give it another couple weeks. Still had " moderate " ketones this morning. Liz > > My muscles and joints are all hurting. I'm startng to think that > > going this low carb is not good for the body...maybe that's why ya'll > > need the MSM, lol Is it possible my body is burning some fat but > > also muscle for energy? Most weight loss plans lead to loss of muscle > > weight. Or, maybe it's the whey and there is some casein in it. > > Frustrated... > > Don't be - this could actually be a *good* sign... while not *all* > negative symptoms are 'detox reactions', many are, and indeed, the old > saying sometimes things will get worse before they start getting better > is very often correct when dealing with healing the body. > > While only you know if you really are getting all of the nutrients you > need - and it is important that you do - as long as you are, that is > most likely what isgoing on (detox/cleansing reactions)... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Liz, If candida is to blame then you most definitely want to stay on a low carb diet as candida feeds on sugar and simple carbs. In addition to inulin (which is a PRE-biotic) or if inulin doesn't help, you might also want to try a PRObiotic combination such as PB8. Best, Dee > > > My muscles and joints are all hurting. I'm startng to think that > > > going this low carb is not good for the body...maybe that's why ya'll > > > need the MSM, lol Is it possible my body is burning some fat but > > > also muscle for energy? Most weight loss plans lead to loss of muscle > > > weight. Or, maybe it's the whey and there is some casein in it. > > > Frustrated... > > > > Don't be - this could actually be a *good* sign... while not *all* > > negative symptoms are 'detox reactions', many are, and indeed, the old > > saying sometimes things will get worse before they start getting better > > is very often correct when dealing with healing the body. > > > > While only you know if you really are getting all of the nutrients you > > need - and it is important that you do - as long as you are, that is > > most likely what isgoing on (detox/cleansing reactions)... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Fats are biologically broken 2 carbons at a time producing a ketones. So ketones are produced as fats are broken, not as residues at the end of the process. Tony ________________________________ From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:31 PM Subject: Re: Ketone Report  I think the sustained effect of VCO is due to the longer chain oils taking longer to be broken down than the MCT oil. Fats are broken down molecule by molecule, and as they are, the result is a shorter and shorter chain until all that's left is the ketone residue. So in this respect ANY fat along with MCT oil will sustain the effect. I choose butter/milk fat. all good, Duncan Dr. Newport mixed the two for her husband's Alzheimer's because she found that the MCT oil was used up too quickly but the mixture of the two provided a sustained effect. > > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Mineral oil, produced from petroleum, can also be made pharmaceutical grade. Tony ________________________________ .... the MCT oil is pharmaceutical grade (USP). Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I do take probiotics, just not as consistently as I should...i'll buy some of the PB8. Although i'm eliminating most complex carbs as well (the high carb ones, like sweet potatoes etc), these are not necessarily bad at all for candida, right? Just important to eliminate while trying to get ketosis and weight loss? thanks, Liz > > > > My muscles and joints are all hurting. I'm startng to think that > > > > going this low carb is not good for the body...maybe that's why ya'll > > > > need the MSM, lol Is it possible my body is burning some fat but > > > > also muscle for energy? Most weight loss plans lead to loss of muscle > > > > weight. Or, maybe it's the whey and there is some casein in it. > > > > Frustrated... > > > > > > Don't be - this could actually be a *good* sign... while not *all* > > > negative symptoms are 'detox reactions', many are, and indeed, the old > > > saying sometimes things will get worse before they start getting better > > > is very often correct when dealing with healing the body. > > > > > > While only you know if you really are getting all of the nutrients you > > > need - and it is important that you do - as long as you are, that is > > > most likely what isgoing on (detox/cleansing reactions)... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Yes, adding back complex carbs like sweet potatoes (a little at a time) are fine after you start losing weight. 1/2 sweet potato is between 12-18 carbs and will not add to candida. Dee > > > > > My muscles and joints are all hurting. I'm startng to think that > > > > > going this low carb is not good for the body...maybe that's why ya'll > > > > > need the MSM, lol Is it possible my body is burning some fat but > > > > > also muscle for energy? Most weight loss plans lead to loss of muscle > > > > > weight. Or, maybe it's the whey and there is some casein in it. > > > > > Frustrated... > > > > > > > > Don't be - this could actually be a *good* sign... while not *all* > > > > negative symptoms are 'detox reactions', many are, and indeed, the old > > > > saying sometimes things will get worse before they start getting better > > > > is very often correct when dealing with healing the body. > > > > > > > > While only you know if you really are getting all of the nutrients you > > > > need - and it is important that you do - as long as you are, that is > > > > most likely what isgoing on (detox/cleansing reactions)... > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Liz, Yes, it really does sound like a detox - Hope you can stay on your program. Just curious - what brand of inulin did you order? I have used NOW brand but it is so sweet - looking for something different. and thanks for the ketone stix updates - good info. elaine > > > My muscles and joints are all hurting. I'm startng to think that > > > going this low carb is not good for the body...maybe that's why ya'll > > > need the MSM, lol Is it possible my body is burning some fat but > > > also muscle for energy? Most weight loss plans lead to loss of muscle > > > weight. Or, maybe it's the whey and there is some casein in it. > > > Frustrated... > > > > Don't be - this could actually be a *good* sign... while not *all* > > negative symptoms are 'detox reactions', many are, and indeed, the old > > saying sometimes things will get worse before they start getting better > > is very often correct when dealing with healing the body. > > > > While only you know if you really are getting all of the nutrients you > > need - and it is important that you do - as long as you are, that is > > most likely what isgoing on (detox/cleansing reactions)... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks Elaine, I ordered teh NOW inulin...hope it's not too sweet for me! I am sensitive to casein, not sure about whey. I've just finished looking online, and it seems that the whey concentrates are likely to have more casein than the isolates. The one i've been using is a concentrate. Jay Robb has a whey isolate with no other ingredients that I don't like, so I may try that and see if it stops the joint issue. I have not had any whey today, and my joints (hip mostly) are def. feeling a bit better. Weird thing is I have no trouble w/ goat milk products, which also have some casein, but in lower amounts...but I also only have a little here and there so maybe if I was drinking goat whey powders twice a day I'd have the same issue. My guess right now is that it's not detox, but the whey. I don't have other general detox symptoms at all. Liz > > > > My muscles and joints are all hurting. I'm startng to think that > > > > going this low carb is not good for the body...maybe that's why ya'll > > > > need the MSM, lol Is it possible my body is burning some fat but > > > > also muscle for energy? Most weight loss plans lead to loss of muscle > > > > weight. Or, maybe it's the whey and there is some casein in it. > > > > Frustrated... > > > > > > Don't be - this could actually be a *good* sign... while not *all* > > > negative symptoms are 'detox reactions', many are, and indeed, the old > > > saying sometimes things will get worse before they start getting better > > > is very often correct when dealing with healing the body. > > > > > > While only you know if you really are getting all of the nutrients you > > > need - and it is important that you do - as long as you are, that is > > > most likely what isgoing on (detox/cleansing reactions)... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Dee: Just because an accident caused a problem does not mean that healing the injury is not a dietary issue. That is how the whole MSM thing came to my attention. I was injured terribly in a ski accident at Mt.Killington in about 1976. My body " fixed " it temporarily and I had about 80% use of that knee as I was told would happen. Fortunately, there was no such thing as arthroscopic surgery then or I probably would have had it. Then at age 50, it started to fail and it finally got so bad that it would go out of joint at the slightest opportunity. Now it is 100% as a result of the MSM protocol. I also had a hip problem from birth that eventually became sciatica... that also went away with the protocol. At the same time, my osteoarthritis in my fingers and neck went away as did my reoccurring tennis elbow. So the bottom line is that healing is _always_ diet related to diet and there can be no separation, hence the term Holistic Health. There is no reason to _work through_ any joint pain ever and MSM helps alleviate it immediately... just as it makes your mouth cold, it takes away pain. Kind regards, Jim Hi Liz, The only time my muscles hurt is if I haven't been walking for awhile and then start up again, and the only joint pain I have is specific to one knee and one hip (osteoarthritis) - no relation to diet. There IS casein in whey. Are you sensitive to it? Also, are you sure you are getting enough vitamins and minerals? At any rate I would try to keep going and work through this. Just go easy and your body will adjust. And don't let yourself get hungry. Eat every couple of hours if you have to. Best, Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Liz, Once you mix the inulin in something you do not notice it too much. I just found the taste in its powder form (before mixing) a little addictive. Also, in case you never used inulin before it can make you a little gassy. Glad to hear that the whey is likely bothering you and not a detox. Never tried Jay Robb - so pricey but it has a good rep among bodybuilders. I do not like fillers or sweeteners in my whey as well. Some other brands to throw at you in case you are interested protein factory http://proteinfactory.com/shop/home.php?cat=31 true protein http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_Details.aspx?cid=22 & pid=6835 I have heard before that people that do not do so well with dairy fair better with goat products. thanks elaine > > > > > > Thanks Dee and Tans, > > > The whey that I got does not actually say " casein free " on it, so it very well could be that since i am sensitive and will get joint pain if I eat too much cow's milk products. I'm still researching the different wheys out there, i'm either going to get the BioChem one which i'll double check but I think they advertise it as casein free, or the Source naturals organic one. All the other ones i've seen have ingredients I don't want in them or have hydrolyzed whey. > > > > > > I also think maybe it is detox, esp since I really haven't lost any weight and still feel bloated (not constipated)...i'm guessing it's the candida/dysbiosis that Duncan talked about. I ordered my inulin and am waiting for it to be delivered...but have been taking the selenium and whey and occasionally probiotics. > > > > > > I'll give it another couple weeks. Still had " moderate " ketones this morning. > > > Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 thanks for the links Elaine...have you used the Protein Factory products yourself? I tried to search " goat whey " yesterday and came up with nothing...so thanks for this, i'll check into their goat whey I think, at least I can try it for only 12.00. Jay Robb was expensive, but I really value purity and lack of additives! There was another one I had found that also looked good, expert something, can't remember, but the reviews on taste were terrible. So, I may try a good whey isolate for a week, and if that doesn't go well, try to goat whey, and if that fails...just eat more protein I guess! Liz > > > > > > > > Thanks Dee and Tans, > > > > The whey that I got does not actually say " casein free " on it, so it very well could be that since i am sensitive and will get joint pain if I eat too much cow's milk products. I'm still researching the different wheys out there, i'm either going to get the BioChem one which i'll double check but I think they advertise it as casein free, or the Source naturals organic one. All the other ones i've seen have ingredients I don't want in them or have hydrolyzed whey. > > > > > > > > I also think maybe it is detox, esp since I really haven't lost any weight and still feel bloated (not constipated)...i'm guessing it's the candida/dysbiosis that Duncan talked about. I ordered my inulin and am waiting for it to be delivered...but have been taking the selenium and whey and occasionally probiotics. > > > > > > > > I'll give it another couple weeks. Still had " moderate " ketones this morning. > > > > Liz > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I do not use Protein factory but I am ordering my next batch from them. I currently use Immunopro (a concentrate so I didn't mention it) and finishing a Now unflavored isolate ( which I no longer believe is manufactured in a whey that produces an undenatured whey after writing to the company) Someone on the forum (I think yg) uses true protein. elaine > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Dee and Tans, > > > > > The whey that I got does not actually say " casein free " on it, so it very well could be that since i am sensitive and will get joint pain if I eat too much cow's milk products. I'm still researching the different wheys out there, i'm either going to get the BioChem one which i'll double check but I think they advertise it as casein free, or the Source naturals organic one. All the other ones i've seen have ingredients I don't want in them or have hydrolyzed whey. > > > > > > > > > > I also think maybe it is detox, esp since I really haven't lost any weight and still feel bloated (not constipated)...i'm guessing it's the candida/dysbiosis that Duncan talked about. I ordered my inulin and am waiting for it to be delivered...but have been taking the selenium and whey and occasionally probiotics. > > > > > > > > > > I'll give it another couple weeks. Still had " moderate " ketones this morning. > > > > > Liz > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Sev, while MCT oil is considered by some people to include C:12 lauric acid, the research that used " MCT oil " used all capric and caprylic C:8 and C:10, which is devoid of lauric acid. The presence of the 51% lauric acid and longer-chain fats was unwanted in these experiments on fatty acids, so the data is naturally more abundant on MCT oil than VCO. Still, you see a lot of rhetoric about coconut " being " MCT, which is quite a stretch if one was to compare it to real MCT oil as it was researched and as the term is apparently more commonly accepted by scientists and bench researchers. Pretending VCO is the same as MCT oil fosters myth-structures because lauric acid does not have the same properties as MCT oil; the myth has obviously misled casual readers in the general population. I hope this illuminates the error of thinking coconut oil is much like MCT oil. all good, Duncan > > Hi All, > > In the chemistry of fats and oils, MCT or medium chain triglycerides refers to those fatty acid with 6 - 12 carbon chain; LCT or long chain fatty acids with 13-22 carbon chain; and SCT or short chain fatty acids with only 3 to 5 carbon chains. In saturated fatty acids,  to each carbon atom is attached to a pair of  hydrogen  atoms; if one pair of hydrogen atom is missing, this is a monounsaturated fatty acid and if two or more pairs of hydrogen missing, then it is termed polyunsaturated fatty acid. The medium chain fatty acids are: Caproic, C6, Caprylic, C8; Capric, C10 and; Lauric, C12.  The highest  natural source of MCT comes from coconut oil (63% MCT) and it is 47-53% lauric acid (C12). this is followed by palm kernel oil (PKO) with 53 % MCT. > > Hoping this helps clarify the MCTs and Coconut oil. > > Cheers, > > Sev Magat > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 > > Sev, while MCT oil is considered by some people to include C:12 lauric acid, the research that used " MCT oil " used all capric and caprylic C:8 and C:10, which is devoid of lauric acid. > Duncan, Here is a site that posts abstracts from peer reviewed research. It is separated into Coconut Oil (16 abstracts), Coconut Oil and Skin (5), Coconut Oil & Hair (3), Virgin Coconut Oil (6), Saturated Fats (5), Lauric Acid/Monolaurin (10), and lastly MCT's (23). If you eliminate the study using Saturated Fats (as it isn't clear what fats were used) then the number of studies using Coconut Oil adds up to 45, while the studies using MCT's is 23. I hope everyone will check it out for themselves: http://www.coconutoil.com/peer_reviewed.htm Oh, and here are 3 more: http://www.ajcn.org/content/27/10/1130.short and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15329324 and http://tinyurl.com/3kl8lf4 (This one is on Lauric Acid) Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 > > Sev, while MCT oil is considered by some people to include C:12 lauric acid, the research that used " MCT oil " used all capric and caprylic C:8 and C:10, which is devoid of lauric acid. > Duncan, Here is a site that posts abstracts from peer reviewed research. It is separated into Coconut Oil (16 abstracts), Coconut Oil and Skin (5), Coconut Oil & Hair (3), Virgin Coconut Oil (6), Saturated Fats (5), Lauric Acid/Monolaurin (10), and lastly MCT's (23). If you eliminate the study using Saturated Fats (as it isn't clear what fats were used) then the number of studies using Coconut Oil adds up to 45, while the studies using MCT's is 23. I hope everyone will check it out for themselves: http://www.coconutoil.com/peer_reviewed.htm Oh, and here are 3 more: http://www.ajcn.org/content/27/10/1130.short and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15329324 and http://tinyurl.com/3kl8lf4 (This one is on Lauric Acid) Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Whenever possible, I think it's always best to get nutrients from whole foods...so...eating coconuts would be best...then you've got the meat, milk, the water, the oil, and finally you can process it down to get MCT. But if you ONLY use MCT, you're gonna miss out on the health benefits of the whole thing working synergistically together, with benefits we don't even know of i'm sure. That said, there's nothing wrong with using something like MCT that has been proven to help with various specific things. I would just use both, coconut oil and MCT (once I lose some weight and can add the oils back in!) in addition to eating a coconut once in awhile, fresh off the tree, haha! Liz > > > > Sev, while MCT oil is considered by some people to include C:12 lauric acid, the research that used " MCT oil " used all capric and caprylic C:8 and C:10, which is devoid of lauric acid. > > > > Duncan, > > Here is a site that posts abstracts from peer reviewed research. It is separated into Coconut Oil (16 abstracts), Coconut Oil and Skin (5), Coconut Oil & Hair (3), Virgin Coconut Oil (6), Saturated Fats (5), Lauric Acid/Monolaurin (10), and lastly MCT's (23). > > If you eliminate the study using Saturated Fats (as it isn't clear what fats were used) then the number of studies using Coconut Oil adds up to 45, while the studies using MCT's is 23. > > I hope everyone will check it out for themselves: > http://www.coconutoil.com/peer_reviewed.htm > > Oh, and here are 3 more: > http://www.ajcn.org/content/27/10/1130.short and > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15329324 and > > http://tinyurl.com/3kl8lf4 (This one is on Lauric Acid) > > Dee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 I have been buying things and searching through the iHerb website since you sent this and I am pretty disappointed. They have a much broader product line than that of Swanson--and I thought Swanson was huge!--but if I can find it from Swanson, it will almost always be cheaper by over a dollar to a few dollars, even when swanson charges $5 to ship. So it is still cheaper for me to do most of my shopping at swanson unless I am looking for another brand other than any that they carry in their stock. I am also disappointed that so many things I look for are listed as discontinued. This seems strange. I am disappointed at iHerb. They have such a broad product line but they are still more expensive in most things I use. They capture the free shipping cost they offer by charging higher prices. They could capture more business if they could beat swanson. Lyn > From: Cody <lecody2001@...> > I use iHerb.com and if I spend 40 bucks I get free shipping... If you use > iHerb, first time buyers can get 5 bucks off using my code...LEC615. > > If you do decide to get that brand, I am sure it will be fine. > > C. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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