Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I would posit that drugs do not heal... they mask symptoms and are prescribed to mediate symptoms not causes; not to correct an imbalance; not to support an organ on its way back to health... in short, their contrived chemistry seeks to force its will on the body rather than provide a harmonious supportive action.  An arm (metaphor for the body) can be twisted only so long, before it gives in and is broken or dislocated and the twisting is of no effect or worse, does damage... This is why I love herbs... d ________________________________ From: Cody <lecody2001@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Pharmacuticals  Everyone? Why? ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 7:15:59 AM Subject: Re: Re: Advice on DSMO On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then stops > working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...: >> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then stops >>> working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. >> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... > Everyone? Why? Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even worse. I thought this was obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some people and takes years in others? C. ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 9:16:33 AM Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...: >> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then stops >>> working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. >> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... > Everyone? Why? Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even worse. I thought this was obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating more symptoms). So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none worked so far - we're still searching. Liz > >>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then stops > >>> working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. > > >> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... > > > Everyone? Why? > > Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. > Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited > period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even > worse. > > I thought this was obvious? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 *Medical system is leading cause of death and injury in US* US " healthcare " is fucking dangerous. If there is insurance which allows the docs to invent more ways to harm or kill people, I expect to see a large rise in death and injury. Unless the entire system is overhauled, and all docs who harm people lose their ability to practice. waving more cash in front of their greedy piggy eyes will tempt them to do far more procedures than they do now. Below from Alternative Medicine Forum. URL at end. Alobar =========================================== October 29, 2003 *Medical system is leading cause of death and injury in US* Shocking statistical evidence is cited by Null PhD, Caroly Dean MD ND, Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD and Dorothy PhD in their recent paper Death by Medicine<http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/Death%20by%20Medicine%20Nov%2027.d\ oc>- October 2003, released by the Nutrition Institute of America <http://www.stopcancer.com/medicalmistakes.htm>. * " A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. Dr. Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251.* Health Care expenditures in the US have reached 14% of the Gross National Product and a staggering $1.6 trillion in 2003. No wonder, one might be tempted to say. With such an appalling record of efficacy and such an unbelievable death rate for the treatments routinely administered, the current medical system can only be said to be in *great need of deep reform. * Certainly it would appear more urgent to investigate the rationale, efficacy and relative cost-effectiveness of pharmaceutical medicine than to legislate restrictive rules for supplements of vital nutrients, as most governments<http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/10/16/european_supplements\ _directive_challenged_in_london_court.htm>and some international organisations<http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/08/30/meet_codex_aliment\ arius.htm>are doing in these times. The Nutrition Institute of America<http://www.stopcancer.com/medicalmistakes.htm> October 28, 2003 *Deadly Medical Mistakes Exposed* New York, New York - New information has been presented showing the degree to which Americans have been subjected to injury and death by medical errors. The results of seven years of research reviewing thousands of studies conducted by the NIA now show that *medical errors are the number one cause of death and injury in the United States.* *According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die annually due to medical mistakes.* Comparatively, the 2001 annual death rate for heart disease was 699,697 and the annual death rate for cancer was 553,251. Over 2.2 million people are injured every year by prescription drugs alone and over 20 million unnecessary prescriptions for antibiotics are prescribed annually for viral infections. The report also shows that 7.5 million unnecessary medical and surgical procedures are performed every year and 8.9 million people are needlessly hospitalized annually. Based on the results of NIA's report, it is evident that there is a pressing need for an overhaul of the entire American medical system. The findings, described as a " revelation " by Feldman, MD, who helped to uncover the evidence, are the product of the first comprehensive studies on iatrogenic incidents. Never before has any study uncovered such a massive amount of information with regard to iatrogenesis. Historically, only small individual partial studies have been performed in this area. Carolyn Dean, MD, a physician and author who also helped to uncover the findings said, * " I was completely shocked, amazed, and dismayed when I first added up all the statistics on medical death and saw how much allopathic medicine has betrayed us. " * The Nutrition Institute of America<http://www.stopcancer.com/medicalmistakes.htm>is a not-for-profit, non-partisan organization that has been enlightening the public on health issues for nearly 30 years. Download the whole report here<http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/Death%20by%20Medicine%20Nov%2027.doc> .. For more information, contact Slater, President of NIA at (646) 505 - 4660 x 155. Alternatively contact: Polonetsky (646)-505-4660 x171 Dr. Carolyn Dean and Trueman Tuck have recently published a book: Available from Ashtree <http://www.ashtreepublishing.com/bookshop/carolyn-dean.php> *Death by Modern Medicine goes beyond the statistics of deaths due to drugs to how the medical monopoly that created the system in the first place is allowed to control health care. A tale of propaganda, health care bureaucracy, the business of cancer, our own personal addictions to sugar and drugs, and the denial we all harbor to help us cope with the overwhelming burden, are woven into this 360-page volume.* Any volunteer translators to get this important book out to people in non english-speaking countries? Contact Trueman Tuck <myrights@...> - Friends of Freedom. *See also related* THE GOOD, BAD, AND THE UGLY EVENTS OF 2005<http://newswithviews.com/Dean/carolyn28.htm> POISON FOR PROFIT <http://www.redflagsweekly.com/storm_warnings/poison.html> CHEM/PHARM HAS NO EQUAL - WHAT A BUSINESS PLAN! - By Hotz, RedFlags Weekly Drugs and Doctors May be the Leading Cause of Death in U.S.<http://mercola.com/2003/jan/15/doctors_drugs.htm> Drugs companies are defrauding healthcare systems, conference hears<http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7472/940-e>- British Medical Journal - 23 October 2004 Book by Prescription Games:<http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684858371/qid%3D983731278/sr%3D\ 1/026-6469017-5222805>Life, Death and Money Inside the Global Pharmaceutical Industry Why Death Rates Decrease When Doctors Go On Strike<http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/26/doctors_death.htm> Medicines 'killing 10,000 people'<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3856289.stm> 195,000 Deaths Due to Hospital Error<http://www.r21online.com/archives/000629.html> Antibiotics linked to sudden deaths<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_\ article_id=348255 & in_page_id=1774>- *A range of commonly prescribed drugs including antibiotics may be responsible for around 15,000 sudden deaths each year in Europe and the United States, researchers claim. The drugs interfere with electrical activity controlling the heartbeat. A study in the Netherlands found they were associated with a three-fold increased risk of sudden death due to cardiac arrest.* License to Kill ... or License to Pill<http://www.grab.com/fun/specials/licensetopill> ? *A funny toon on a pill for every ill * U.S. leads in medical errors -- study<http://news.monstersandcritics.com/health/article_1059616.php/U.S._leads_i\ n_medical_errors_--_study> Are Your Painkillers Actually Killing You?<http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2739177 & page=1> On Tuesday, the Food and Drug Administration proposed stronger warning labels for the common class of pain relievers known as nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, or NSAIDs. The group includes acetaminophen, commonly known by the brand name Tylenol, as well as ibuprofen and aspirin .... the FDA estimates that 200,000 Americans are hospitalized every year because of overdoses and side effects of normal doses of these drugs, and they are the cause of thousands of deaths per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 On 2011-09-28 12:01 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > On 9/28/11 at 9:16:33 am, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...: >> On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>> On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... wrote: >>>> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>>>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, >>>>> then stops working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for >>>>> even worse. >>>> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... >>> Everyone? Why? >> Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. >> Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited >> period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even >> worse. >> >> I thought this was obvious? > Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some > people and takes years in others? Because everyone is different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 *Most Doctors are just Little Mengelas* Too many friends and family members have been killed or permanently damaged under the care of doctors. They dispense poisons, remove organs, and irradiate people. Radiation is toxic and carcinogenic. Chemo is poison. Antibiotic means against life! Organs can be healed with vitamins and herbs, and hardly ever need to be removed. Doctors are not taught anything about proper nutrition, use of herbs, or much of anything other than which toxin from big Pharm needs to be dispensed for what condition. Lugol's Iodine applied topically will make breast tumors shrink. Vitamin D3 is also very helpful at preventing brerast cancer<http://alobar.livejournal.com/3403421.html>. No need to cut off the breasts. When things go to hell, they smile broadly and say * " you suffered from a known side effect of the medicine " *. Ricky, who worked on Square where I work was ~20 years younger than me, and had diabetes for less time than me before he died. Ricky died of kidney failure. I watched what Ricky ate. He followed the standard ADA diet. The docs claimed that they had no idea why his kidneys failed. Ricky was a diabetic and was taking metformin. " Top long term (1+ years on drugs) drug interactions, side effects: #2 Renal failure acute 12.70%<http://www.ehealthme.com/drug_interactions_side_effects/Metformin-Hydroch\ loride-3008346> " Why the nincompoop doctors say they had no idea why Ricky's kidneys failed when renal failure is the #2 side effect of metformin, effecting 12.7% of all those taking metformin! Are they lying, or just pig ignorant? Ricky's friends and family donated money to *PAY* the medical school to accept his body for autopsy so that maybe they could figure out why Ricky had kidney failure. So the docs not only murdered Ricky, but lied to his family, then took money from them, when they knew all along why Ricky had died. [And people wonder why I loathe allopathic medicine so much!] Most doctors are just little Mengelas<http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=Mengele>, whether the are malicious murders or just incompetent ninnies who just don't question the lies they were taught in med school. However, it is not entirely the docs' fault they are ninnies. Cutting edge info on vitamins is not available thru Medline. *Think about this before allowing docs to treat you for anything.* I stumbled upon a lovely 6 page article on Iotrogenesis<http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?ww=6 & w=Iotrogenesis>. The total number of deaths caused by the American medical system makes medicine the #1 cause of death in the US. Think about that before going to a doctor. The article below has over 150 references. Lots of charts and tables. From LEF (Life Extension Foundation<http://www.lef.org/company.htm>). Too big to post here. In 2006, Psychology Today wrote: " The National Library of Medicine refuses to index the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, though it is peer-reviewed and seems to meet their criteria. " <http://alobar.livejournal.com/2733530.html>(4) (4) Psychology Today, Nov-Dec 2006. http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061101-000002.html http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=20061101-000002 & page=4 Below is the first page. URL at end. Alobar ============================= *Death by Medicine* *By Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; and Dorothy , PhD* Something is wrong when regulatory agencies pretend that vitamins are dangerous, yet ignore published statistics showing that government-sanctioned medicine is the real hazard. Until now, Life Extension could cite only isolated statistics to make its case about the dangers of conventional medicine. No one had ever analyzed and combined ALL of the published literature dealing with injuries and deaths caused by government-protected medicine. That has now changed. A group of researchers meticulously reviewed the statistical evidence and their findings are absolutely shocking.4 These researchers have authored a paper titled “Death by Medicine” that presents compelling evidence that today’s system frequently causes more harm than good. This fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year. The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5) We placed this article on our website to memorialize the failure of the American medical system. By exposing these gruesome statistics in painstaking detail, we provide a basis for competent and compassionate medical professionals to recognize the inadequacies of today’s system and at least attempt to institute meaningful reforms. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:09 AM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote: > If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA > to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct > probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that > covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of > chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural > thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also > classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you > indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not > everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the > limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying > to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating > more symptoms). > > So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try > alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a > place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a > person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause > other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible > effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without > relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none > worked so far - we're still searching. > > Liz > > > > > >>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then > stops > > >>> working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. > > > > >> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... > > > > > Everyone? Why? > > > > Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. > > Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited > > period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even > > worse. > > > > I thought this was obvious? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Hi : My guess is that most all of this group would agree and " pile on " with Don, Tans, and Liz on this one. But that should not be be the deciding factor. You must be the final judge. My goal is to remain drug free forever and at age 70 I am meeting that goal well, but I have taken one of two in the distant past because I did not know any better. I have learned from past mistakes. I have absolutely no use for any mainstream MD's. They have nothing to offer me. People like Tans and Duncan Crowe can actually help me more. For example, my mainstream heart surgeon friend who is my age, had a severe coronary attack that required triple bypass surgery last year. Today, he still takes aspirin, blood thinners, and statins and worries about HBP. I have none of his concerns and have not had a serious health issue since coming to this level of understanding: To me its about outcome and maintenance, and as Liz says, " Curing problems. " Not masking them. Finally, pain is your friend... if you have some, address it with a change in your dietary and, as necessary, supplement program, not a drug. It works for me. The down side is that its all out of pocket and there are no insurance programs to help. Too bad! Its worth it though. That response occurs quickly with you could be considered a positive. That might well mean that your body responds more quickly to these outside forces than some others. My suggestion, then, would be to find some positive outside forces to conform with your positive reaction and get off of the merry-go-around. Agreeing to agree with Liz' definition, do your research and make your own judgements. One thing that makes me smile is when Dr. Mercola says, " Take charge of your health (with his wide eyes). " IMHO, there is no better advice out there from anyone... and remember, we are all different. You have just demonstrated one important aspect of that quite nicely. Cheers, Jim >If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating more symptoms). So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none worked so far - we're still searching. Liz< >Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some people and takes years in others? C.< I would posit that drugs do not heal... they mask symptoms and are prescribed to mediate symptoms not causes; not to correct an imbalance; not to support an organ on its way back to health... in short, their contrived chemistry seeks to force its will on the body rather than provide a harmonious supportive action. An arm (metaphor for the body) can be twisted only so long, before it gives in and is broken or dislocated and the twisting is of no effect or worse, does damage... This is why I love herbs... d ____________ ____________________ From: Cody <lecody2001@... <mailto:lecody2001%40>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Pharmacuticals Everyone? Why? ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.org>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 7:15:59 AM Subject: Re: Re: Advice on DSMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 " T " that is not an answer. But thanks for trying. C. ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 1:21:43 PM Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals On 2011-09-28 12:01 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > On 9/28/11 at 9:16:33 am, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...: >> On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>> On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... wrote: >>>> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>>>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, >>>>> then stops working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for >>>>> even worse. >>>> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... >>> Everyone? Why? >> Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. >> Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited >> period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even >> worse. >> >> I thought this was obvious? > Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some > people and takes years in others? Because everyone is different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 What you say is true, and I try to stay away from drugs, but for some of us, money is an issue. And unfortunately insurance does not pay for much in the way of alternative but I am bound and determined to stop the drugs. I am just not sure what to do about the thyroid or the other autoimmune diseases but I am willing to look at alternative options. As for pain, that is why I am trying the MSM and DMSO because pain meds are wonderful for short term intense pain, they are useless for chronic pain. And I have chronic pain. But it is also nice to know what you are dealing with and an xray or blood test can be useful so I go see my doc. Plus there are a few conditions that would kill people quickly without modern medicine such as Type one diabetes. So I can't completely dismiss that side of the equation but I am less and less impressed with it and scared to death of hospitals. I guess I could give you guys a laundry list of what I know is wrong, most is connected to inflammation, but I think I will wait until my MSM/DMSO has had a chance to work and I see what is left over. There is the CLL [chronic lymphocytic leukemia], but for the time being that isn't even worth worrying about. And the idea of chemotheraphy... yuck... C. ________________________________ From: Huuman <huuman60@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 3:03:51 PM Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals Hi : My guess is that most all of this group would agree and " pile on " with Don, Tans, and Liz on this one. But that should not be be the deciding factor. You must be the final judge. My goal is to remain drug free forever and at age 70 I am meeting that goal well, but I have taken one of two in the distant past because I did not know any better. I have learned from past mistakes. I have absolutely no use for any mainstream MD's. They have nothing to offer me. People like Tans and Duncan Crowe can actually help me more. For example, my mainstream heart surgeon friend who is my age, had a severe coronary attack that required triple bypass surgery last year. Today, he still takes aspirin, blood thinners, and statins and worries about HBP. I have none of his concerns and have not had a serious health issue since coming to this level of understanding: To me its about outcome and maintenance, and as Liz says, " Curing problems. " Not masking them. Finally, pain is your friend... if you have some, address it with a change in your dietary and, as necessary, supplement program, not a drug. It works for me. The down side is that its all out of pocket and there are no insurance programs to help. Too bad! Its worth it though. That response occurs quickly with you could be considered a positive. That might well mean that your body responds more quickly to these outside forces than some others. My suggestion, then, would be to find some positive outside forces to conform with your positive reaction and get off of the merry-go-around. Agreeing to agree with Liz' definition, do your research and make your own judgements. One thing that makes me smile is when Dr. Mercola says, " Take charge of your health (with his wide eyes). " IMHO, there is no better advice out there from anyone... and remember, we are all different. You have just demonstrated one important aspect of that quite nicely. Cheers, Jim >If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating more symptoms). So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none worked so far - we're still searching. Liz< >Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some people and takes years in others? C.< I would posit that drugs do not heal... they mask symptoms and are prescribed to mediate symptoms not causes; not to correct an imbalance; not to support an organ on its way back to health... in short, their contrived chemistry seeks to force its will on the body rather than provide a harmonious supportive action. An arm (metaphor for the body) can be twisted only so long, before it gives in and is broken or dislocated and the twisting is of no effect or worse, does damage... This is why I love herbs... d ____________ ____________________ From: Cody <lecody2001@... <mailto:lecody2001%40>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Pharmacuticals Everyone? Why? ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.org>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 7:15:59 AM Subject: Re: Re: Advice on DSMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Everyone and every body is different...like snowflakes... we all respond a bit differently to things in our lives. d ________________________________ From: Cody <lecody2001@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals  Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some people and takes years in others? C. ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 9:16:33 AM Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...: >> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then stops >>> working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. >> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... > Everyone? Why? Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even worse. I thought this was obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I totally agree with you From: Alobar <Alobar@...> Subject: Re: Re: Pharmacuticals Coconut Oil Date: Wednesday, September 28, 2011, 10:55 AM *Most Doctors are just Little Mengelas* Too many friends and family members have been killed or permanently damaged under the care of doctors. They dispense poisons, remove organs, and irradiate people.   Radiation is toxic and carcinogenic. Chemo is poison. Antibiotic means against life! Organs can be healed with vitamins and herbs, and hardly ever need to be removed.   Doctors are not taught anything about proper nutrition, use of herbs, or much of anything other than which toxin from big Pharm needs to be dispensed for what condition. Lugol's Iodine applied topically will make breast tumors shrink. Vitamin D3 is also very helpful at preventing brerast cancer<http://alobar.livejournal.com/3403421.html>.  No need to cut off the breasts.   When things go to hell, they smile broadly and say * " you suffered from a known side effect of the medicine " *. Ricky, who worked on Square where I work was ~20 years younger than me, and had diabetes for less time than me before he died. Ricky died of kidney failure. I watched what Ricky ate. He followed the standard ADA diet. The docs claimed that they had no idea why his kidneys failed.   Ricky was a diabetic and was taking metformin.   " Top long term (1+ years on drugs) drug interactions, side effects:   #2 Renal failure acute 12.70%<http://www.ehealthme.com/drug_interactions_side_effects/Metformin-Hydroch\ loride-3008346> " Why the nincompoop doctors say they had no idea why Ricky's kidneys failed when renal failure is the #2 side effect of metformin, effecting 12.7% of all those taking metformin!   Are they lying, or just pig ignorant? Ricky's friends and family donated money to *PAY* the medical school to accept his body for autopsy so that maybe they could figure out why Ricky had kidney failure.   So the docs not only murdered Ricky, but lied to his family, then took money from them, when they knew all along why Ricky had died. [And people wonder why I loathe allopathic medicine so much!]     Most doctors are just little Mengelas<http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=Mengele>, whether the are malicious murders or just incompetent ninnies who just don't question the lies they were taught in med school.   However, it is not entirely the docs' fault they are ninnies.   Cutting edge info on vitamins is not available thru Medline.       *Think about this before allowing docs to treat you for anything.*      I stumbled upon a lovely 6 page article on Iotrogenesis<http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?ww=6 & w=Iotrogenesis>. The total number of deaths caused by the American medical system makes medicine the #1 cause of death in the US.   Think about that before going to a doctor.     The article below has over 150 references. Lots of charts and tables.   From LEF (Life Extension Foundation<http://www.lef.org/company.htm>). Too big to post here. In 2006, Psychology Today wrote: " The National Library of Medicine refuses to index the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, though it is peer-reviewed and seems to meet their criteria. " <http://alobar.livejournal.com/2733530.html>(4)  (4) Psychology Today, Nov-Dec 2006. http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061101-000002.html http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=20061101-000002 & page=4 Below is the first page. URL at end. Alobar ============================= *Death by Medicine* *By Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; and Dorothy , PhD* Something is wrong when regulatory agencies pretend that vitamins are dangerous, yet ignore published statistics showing that government-sanctioned medicine is the real hazard. Until now, Life Extension could cite only isolated statistics to make its case about the dangers of conventional medicine. No one had ever analyzed and combined ALL of the published literature dealing with injuries and deaths caused by government-protected medicine. That has now changed. A group of researchers meticulously reviewed the statistical evidence and their findings are absolutely shocking.4 These researchers have authored a paper titled “Death by Medicine†that presents compelling evidence that today’s system frequently causes more harm than good. This fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year. The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5) We placed this article on our website to memorialize the failure of the American medical system. By exposing these gruesome statistics in painstaking detail, we provide a basis for competent and compassionate medical professionals to recognize the inadequacies of today’s system and at least attempt to institute meaningful reforms. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:09 AM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote: > If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA > to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct > probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that > covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of > chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural > thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also > classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you > indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not > everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the > limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying > to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating > more symptoms). > > So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try > alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a > place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a > person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause > other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible > effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without > relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none > worked so far - we're still searching. > > Liz > > > > > >>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then > stops > > >>> working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. > > > > >> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... > > > > > Everyone? Why? > > > > Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. > > Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited > > period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even > > worse. > > > > I thought this was obvious? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I have not ready all the emails what you all are talking about drugs, but I always thought of drugs more to take care of symptoms, kind of like taking an aspirin for a headache, it didn’t take care of the deeper issue which caused the headache, just the pain the issue caused. Now when I had tick fever and was close to death I can say the antibiotics did help me. But I don’t believe in taking antibiotic if at all possible to stay away from them. 20 years ago I got staph infection started from chigger bits I keep scratching, and I was going through a divorce, under a lot of stress, immune system was down. My leg swelled, then went to my face, and underarms, I went to a doctor who put me on antibiotics, the boils left, but came right back, 3 times, after that I said forget the antibiotics, and I went to health food store, got herbal blood detox tea, Bee Propolis, and probiotics. I got better and it didn’t come back. Lori E From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Tanstaafl Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 12:22 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals On 2011-09-28 12:01 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... <mailto:lecody2001%40> > wrote: > On 9/28/11 at 9:16:33 am, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.orgwrote> : >> On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... <mailto:lecody2001%40> wrote: >>> On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.org> wrote: >>>> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... <mailto:lecody2001%40> wrote: >>>>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, >>>>> then stops working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for >>>>> even worse. >>>> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... >>> Everyone? Why? >> Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. >> Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited >> period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even >> worse. >> >> I thought this was obvious? > Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some > people and takes years in others? Because everyone is different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 My chiropractor has a doctor friend, who another friend of mine goes to who is open and into natural health, ( my former sister in law works in a pharmacy, and said he writes most prescriptions for natural things too, though he is an MD, he rarely writes a prescription for drugs. Anyway, the chiropractor told me that the Medical board came down on him because of that, and wanted him to write prescriptions for drugs! You know the drug companies and the medical board are in it together, it's about MONEY! Drugs take care of symptoms, but cause more side effects, or create more health problems, and then they give another drug to fix those symptoms, etc, a domino effect.How sad the government and FDA allows this and other things such as aspartame. L Have you noticed the drug commercials on TV, seduction of the mind, which is the battle ground the devil plays in. We have to guard our mind and heart. J Lori E From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Huuman Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:04 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals Hi : My guess is that most all of this group would agree and " pile on " with Don, Tans, and Liz on this one. But that should not be be the deciding factor. You must be the final judge. My goal is to remain drug free forever and at age 70 I am meeting that goal well, but I have taken one of two in the distant past because I did not know any better. I have learned from past mistakes. I have absolutely no use for any mainstream MD's. They have nothing to offer me. People like Tans and Duncan Crowe can actually help me more. For example, my mainstream heart surgeon friend who is my age, had a severe coronary attack that required triple bypass surgery last year. Today, he still takes aspirin, blood thinners, and statins and worries about HBP. I have none of his concerns and have not had a serious health issue since coming to this level of understanding: To me its about outcome and maintenance, and as Liz says, " Curing problems. " Not masking them. Finally, pain is your friend... if you have some, address it with a change in your dietary and, as necessary, supplement program, not a drug. It works for me. The down side is that its all out of pocket and there are no insurance programs to help. Too bad! Its worth it though. That response occurs quickly with you could be considered a positive. That might well mean that your body responds more quickly to these outside forces than some others. My suggestion, then, would be to find some positive outside forces to conform with your positive reaction and get off of the merry-go-around. Agreeing to agree with Liz' definition, do your research and make your own judgements. One thing that makes me smile is when Dr. Mercola says, " Take charge of your health (with his wide eyes). " IMHO, there is no better advice out there from anyone... and remember, we are all different. You have just demonstrated one important aspect of that quite nicely. Cheers, Jim >If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating more symptoms). So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none worked so far - we're still searching. Liz< >Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some people and takes years in others? C.< I would posit that drugs do not heal... they mask symptoms and are prescribed to mediate symptoms not causes; not to correct an imbalance; not to support an organ on its way back to health... in short, their contrived chemistry seeks to force its will on the body rather than provide a harmonious supportive action. An arm (metaphor for the body) can be twisted only so long, before it gives in and is broken or dislocated and the twisting is of no effect or worse, does damage... This is why I love herbs... d ____________ ____________________ From: Cody <lecody2001@... <mailto:lecody2001%40> <mailto:lecody2001%40>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Pharmacuticals Everyone? Why? ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.org> <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.org>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 7:15:59 AM Subject: Re: Re: Advice on DSMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 One more thing about drugs coming from herbs, Years ago in a class I went to become certified herbalist, (not that I remember everything, as I work in hair salon, not health)anyway, I was taught that when the drug companies use herbs, they take out parts of the herb, and when taken apart and the whole herb is not used the way God intended, this is what causes the side effects. But the drug companies cannot paten herbs, nor make the big money on them. Just something to think about. Lori E From: Coconut Oil [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Huuman Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:04 PM Coconut Oil Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals Hi : My guess is that most all of this group would agree and " pile on " with Don, Tans, and Liz on this one. But that should not be be the deciding factor. You must be the final judge. My goal is to remain drug free forever and at age 70 I am meeting that goal well, but I have taken one of two in the distant past because I did not know any better. I have learned from past mistakes. I have absolutely no use for any mainstream MD's. They have nothing to offer me. People like Tans and Duncan Crowe can actually help me more. For example, my mainstream heart surgeon friend who is my age, had a severe coronary attack that required triple bypass surgery last year. Today, he still takes aspirin, blood thinners, and statins and worries about HBP. I have none of his concerns and have not had a serious health issue since coming to this level of understanding: To me its about outcome and maintenance, and as Liz says, " Curing problems. " Not masking them. Finally, pain is your friend... if you have some, address it with a change in your dietary and, as necessary, supplement program, not a drug. It works for me. The down side is that its all out of pocket and there are no insurance programs to help. Too bad! Its worth it though. That response occurs quickly with you could be considered a positive. That might well mean that your body responds more quickly to these outside forces than some others. My suggestion, then, would be to find some positive outside forces to conform with your positive reaction and get off of the merry-go-around. Agreeing to agree with Liz' definition, do your research and make your own judgements. One thing that makes me smile is when Dr. Mercola says, " Take charge of your health (with his wide eyes). " IMHO, there is no better advice out there from anyone... and remember, we are all different. You have just demonstrated one important aspect of that quite nicely. Cheers, Jim >If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating more symptoms). So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none worked so far - we're still searching. Liz< >Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some people and takes years in others? C.< I would posit that drugs do not heal... they mask symptoms and are prescribed to mediate symptoms not causes; not to correct an imbalance; not to support an organ on its way back to health... in short, their contrived chemistry seeks to force its will on the body rather than provide a harmonious supportive action. An arm (metaphor for the body) can be twisted only so long, before it gives in and is broken or dislocated and the twisting is of no effect or worse, does damage... This is why I love herbs... d ____________ ____________________ From: Cody <lecody2001@... <mailto:lecody2001%40> <mailto:lecody2001%40>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Pharmacuticals Everyone? Why? ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.org> <mailto:tanstaafl%40libertytrek.org>> Coconut Oil <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> <mailto:Coconut Oil%40> Sent: Wed, September 28, 2011 7:15:59 AM Subject: Re: Re: Advice on DSMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 On 2011-09-28 11:27 PM, llje <llje@...> wrote: > Years ago in a class I went to become certified herbalist, (not that > I remember everything, as I work in hair salon, not health)anyway, I > was taught that when the drug companies use herbs, they take out > parts of the herb, and when taken apart and the whole herb is not > used the way God intended, this is what causes the side effects. Actually, drug companies generally do not use any part of the real herb, they use a fake, *synthesized* version of whatever they determine the active ingredient to be (usually petroleum based) - and *that* is why the side effects are so bad. Simply using an isolated/concentrated extract of an herb can actually be a good thing for dealing with serious symptoms, and although they too can have side effects, they generally are not nearly as bad as with the fake analog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 On 2011-09-28 5:09 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > On 9/28/11 at 1:21:43 PM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...: >> On 2011-09-28 12:01 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>> On 9/28/11 at 9:16:33 am, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... wrote>: >>>> On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>>>> On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... wrote: >>>>>> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>>>>>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, >>>>>>> then stops working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for >>>>>>> even worse. >>>>>> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... >>>>> Everyone? Why? >>>> Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. >>>> Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited >>>> period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even >>>> worse. >>>> >>>> I thought this was obvious? >>> Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some >>> people and takes years in others? >> Because everyone is different? > " T " that is not an answer. But thanks for trying. Actually " L " it is *the* answer - sorry you're not able to grok it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 " T " , I do grok that people are different and react differently to biologically active substances. But that is not an answer to the question of why a substance stops working and then make whatever it is meant to deal with worse. It is just a platitude And throwing out a platitude is not answering the question. I guess you don't really know. " L " ________________________________ From: Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...> Coconut Oil Sent: Thu, September 29, 2011 6:46:57 AM Subject: Re: Pharmacuticals On 2011-09-28 5:09 PM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > On 9/28/11 at 1:21:43 PM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@...: >> On 2011-09-28 12:01 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>> On 9/28/11 at 9:16:33 am, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... wrote>: >>>> On 2011-09-28 7:42 AM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>>>> On 9/28/11 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@... wrote: >>>>>> On 2011-09-27 6:55 PM, Cody <lecody2001@... wrote: >>>>>>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, >>>>>>> then stops working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for >>>>>>> even worse. >>>>>> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... >>>>> Everyone? Why? >>>> Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. >>>> Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited >>>> period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even >>>> worse. >>>> >>>> I thought this was obvious? >>> Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some >>> people and takes years in others? >> Because everyone is different? > " T " that is not an answer. But thanks for trying. Actually " L " it is *the* answer - sorry you're not able to grok it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 On 2011-09-29 7:27 AM, Cody <lecody2001@...> wrote: > " T " , I do grok that people are different and react differently to > biologically active substances. But that is not an answer to the > question of why a substance stops working and then make whatever it > is meant to deal with worse. It is just a platitude That is not the question you asked ( and I answered)... You asked: > Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some > people and takes years in others? My answer - " Because everyone is different? " - is most definitely an answer to your question. If you wanted an answer to a different question, then you should have simply asked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I do think there may sometimes be some truth to T's statement...only in so far as many meds will decrese your immune system and cause stress on your liver etc, so that in turn can theoretically worsen teh problem you are trying to combat...makes sense, but obviously not something you could test or prove, and may not happen all the time in the same way for all people...depends on the toxic load in a person's life, genetics, etc etc. Liz > >>>>>>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, > >>>>>>> then stops working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for > >>>>>>> even worse. > > >>>>>> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... > > >>>>> Everyone? Why? > > >>>> Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. > >>>> Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited > >>>> period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even > >>>> worse. > >>>> > >>>> I thought this was obvious? > > >>> Ok, then let me rephrase it. How come it happens quickly in some > >>> people and takes years in others? > > >> Because everyone is different? > > > " T " that is not an answer. But thanks for trying. > > Actually " L " it is *the* answer - sorry you're not able to grok it. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Hello everyone, Even though I'm well aware of the Pharm issue, I felt the urge to hear from the forum. To reeducate myself, due to an anursyum back in 03', belong to many forums, mostly mind/body info. The main thing about this very informative forum, is that you all memtion names/places like: Dr. Mercola, Life Extension, and many more, what in the heck is this input so important?? A lot of U summit researched/inportant issues, THAT makes the best forum, appreciate much, keep up the good work! Gerardo Barriga From: Alobar <Alobar@...> >Coconut Oil >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:55 AM >Subject: Re: Re: Pharmacuticals > >*Most Doctors are just Little Mengelas* > >Too many friends and family members have been killed or permanently damaged >under the care of doctors. They dispense poisons, remove organs, and >irradiate people. Radiation is toxic and carcinogenic. Chemo is poison. >Antibiotic means against life! Organs can be healed with vitamins and >herbs, and hardly ever need to be removed. Doctors are not taught anything >about proper nutrition, use of herbs, or much of anything other than which >toxin from big Pharm needs to be dispensed for what condition. Lugol's >Iodine applied topically will make breast tumors shrink. Vitamin D3 is also >very helpful at preventing brerast >cancer<http://alobar.livejournal.com/3403421.html>. > No need to cut off the breasts. When things go to hell, they smile >broadly and say * " you suffered from a known side effect of the medicine " *. >Ricky, who worked on Square where I work was ~20 years younger than >me, and had diabetes for less time than me before he died. Ricky died of >kidney failure. > >I watched what Ricky ate. He followed the standard ADA diet. The docs >claimed that they had no idea why his kidneys failed. Ricky was a diabetic >and was taking metformin. " Top long term (1+ years on drugs) drug >interactions, side effects: #2 Renal failure acute >12.70%<http://www.ehealthme.com/drug_interactions_side_effects/Metformin-Hydroc\ hloride-3008346> " >Why the >nincompoop doctors say they had no idea why Ricky's kidneys failed when >renal failure is the #2 side effect of metformin, effecting 12.7% of all >those taking metformin! Are they lying, or just pig ignorant? > >Ricky's friends and family donated money to *PAY* the medical school to >accept his body for autopsy so that maybe they could figure out why Ricky >had kidney failure. So the docs not only murdered Ricky, but lied to his >family, then took money from them, when they knew all along why Ricky had >died. [And people wonder why I loathe allopathic medicine so much!] > >    Most doctors are just little >Mengelas<http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=Mengele>, >whether the are malicious murders or just incompetent ninnies who just >don't question the lies they were taught in med school. However, it is not >entirely the docs' fault they are ninnies. Cutting edge info on vitamins >is not available thru Medline. > >    *Think about this before allowing docs to treat you for anything.* > >   I stumbled upon a lovely 6 page article on >Iotrogenesis<http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?ww=6 & w=Iotrogenesis>. >The total number of deaths caused by the American medical system makes >medicine the #1 cause of death in the US. Think about that before going to >a doctor. > >    The article below has over 150 references. Lots of charts and >tables. From LEF (Life Extension >Foundation<http://www.lef.org/company.htm>). >Too big to post here. > > >In 2006, Psychology Today wrote: " The National Library of Medicine refuses >to index the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, though it is peer-reviewed >and seems to meet their >criteria. " <http://alobar.livejournal.com/2733530.html>(4) > (4) Psychology Today, Nov-Dec 2006. >http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061101-000002.html >http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=20061101-000002 & page=4 > >Below is the first page. URL at end. > >Alobar > >============================= > >*Death by Medicine* >*By Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, >MD; and Dorothy , PhD* > >Something is wrong when regulatory agencies pretend that vitamins are >dangerous, yet ignore published statistics showing that >government-sanctioned medicine is the real hazard. > >Until now, Life Extension could cite only isolated statistics to make its >case about the dangers of conventional medicine. No one had ever analyzed >and combined ALL of the published literature dealing with injuries and >deaths caused by government-protected medicine. That has now changed. > >A group of researchers meticulously reviewed the statistical evidence and >their findings are absolutely shocking.4 These researchers have authored a >paper titled “Death by Medicine†that presents compelling evidence that >today’s system frequently causes more harm than good. > >This fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, >adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number >of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 >million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures >performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to >unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year. > >The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths >caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now >evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and >injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart >disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to >cancer was 553,251.5) > >We placed this article on our website to memorialize the failure of the >American medical system. By exposing these gruesome statistics in >painstaking detail, we provide a basis for competent and compassionate >medical professionals to recognize the inadequacies of today’s system and at >least attempt to institute meaningful reforms. > >http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm > > >On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:09 AM, lizz7711 <lizz7711@...> wrote: > >> If you use the definition of " drug " as being anything approved by the FDA >> to treat diseases/medical conditions, then your comment would be correct >> probably 90% of the time. But, you can't make a blanket statement that >> covers all drugs...they are simply chemicals, just as our food is made up of >> chemicals. Aspirin was made from tree bark or something, a pretty natural >> thing. And many people take bioidentical hormones...these are also >> classified as drugs...but they do not cause a worsening of symptoms as you >> indicated. They may not be able to " cure " the problem, that's true. But not >> everyone can get to the underlying cause of their illness given the >> limitations of our current medical knowledge (since they gave up on trying >> to find and treat causes and instead made big business treating and creating >> more symptoms). >> >> So, while I am generally " anti-drug " , and ALWAYS will research and try >> alternative, natural ways of dealing w/ my health issues first...there is a >> place for drugs at certain times, and depending on the drug, sometimes a >> person might have to take them even knowing their side effects will cause >> other problems -like my Dad who had to take Neurontin with its terrible >> effects on his memory...no one can handle 24/7 intense nerve pain without >> relief, and unfortunately, even though he tried many alternatives, none >> worked so far - we're still searching. >> >> Liz >> >> >> >> > >>> But that is what happens to me. A drug works fine for a time, then >> stops >> > >>> working and makes whatever I was taking the drug for even worse. >> > >> > >> Ummm... actually, that is how drugs work for *everyone*... >> > >> > > Everyone? Why? >> > >> > Because drugs only mask symptoms, they do not heal or cure anything. >> > Masking symptoms will only work - if it does at all - for a limited >> > period of time, after which, the symptoms will flare up and become even >> > worse. >> > >> > I thought this was obvious? >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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