MSM

[Guest guest]

> I'm really curious now about the claim that once the crystal flakes are

> powdered, they lose much of their potency...

>

I think this is where the information regarding the difference came from:

http://www.encognitive.com/node/1123

It's a long but very interesting article so I won't provide quotes. It's pretty

convincing and, as far as I can tell, he doesn't sell it.

Dee

[Guest guest]

Strange statement that organic sulfur crystals are more potent than

MSM is, in fact, a long chain Organic Sulfur that is easily absorbed due

to its methane component...from what I have read. Hence the cold

taste. It is derived from DMSO as several have posted here... which is

very powerful stuff in itself. Indications are that Goldstein's

Crystals are, in fact, a form of MSM that is derived from pine trees.

Going on the assumption that Goldstein's MSM really is 85% more

absorbable than what I use, is it all that important as long as I get

the amount of sulfur that I need to repair my joints? My experience is

that 4 oz a day will heal just about anything when it comes to joint

problems if you take it long enough. That works for me and I never

expect to need that kind of protocol ever again since I listen to what

my joints tell me and supplement accordingly. If they are the same

thing, but Goldstein's is more absorbable, then it comes down to cost.

This is not new news, but what I particularly like about your reference

is the long list of ancillary benefits that MSM yields... good stuff

huh? Anyone here ever heard of a drug that has these wonderful side

effects? Not in your life.

The blood circulation benefit, by the way, is a result of the fact that

MSM makes all connective tissue more pliable. So it makes your nails,

skin, and hair more pliable also.... makes perfect sense.

Note that Glucosamine and Chondroitin are also organic Sulfates but bot

will upset your stomach if you take much and Chondroitin is not easily

absorbed in any case.

I have been using MSM since I was 56 years old after reading an MSM

salesman's website on the subject. He sold it by the rail car load for

horses. I just turned 69 and have never looked back. It has repaired

every joint problem that I have ever known including a knee that I tore

up skiing at Mt. Killington in 1975, the juvenile arthritis that I was

born with in my hip, the lower back problems that I inherited, and a bad

case of tennis elbow.

>On the subject of MSM, I have read that Organic Sulfur Crystals more

potent than MSM. Anyone have any experience with this?<

[Guest guest]

Huuman

I am very, very new to supplementation . I had preferred " Whole Food " for a long

time until I finally understood how unpractical it was to find " whole foods " and

the systematic depletion of our soil (in the USA at least) thus that our foods

no longer are reliable a source of certain components/nutrients , e.g Brazil

Nuts analysis reveal the paucity of selenium from the Brazil Nuts available on

the market ... but I digress ..

I am not sure it is arthritis but my knees have become quite painful when I run

to such an extent I have almost given up running and use elliptical machines for

my daily workouts... My knees creeks quite audibly when I crouch for example ...

So repairing my joints is in order before other parts start creaking too ....

What is the minimum dosage fro MSM for a person to notice a difference? I just

bought some MSM Tablets and noticed that they are 1000 mg per capsules I would

need to gobble 112 capsules everyday to equal what you take daily ( 4 oz) .. An

Ounce is 28 grams or 28,000 mg .. Am I missing something here?

From: Huuman <huuman60@...>

Subject: Re: MSM

Coconut Oil

Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 12:22 PM

 

Strange statement that organic sulfur crystals are more potent than

MSM is, in fact, a long chain Organic Sulfur that is easily absorbed due

to its methane component...from what I have read. Hence the cold

taste. It is derived from DMSO as several have posted here... which is

very powerful stuff in itself. Indications are that Goldstein's

Crystals are, in fact, a form of MSM that is derived from pine trees.

Going on the assumption that Goldstein's MSM really is 85% more

absorbable than what I use, is it all that important as long as I get

the amount of sulfur that I need to repair my joints? My experience is

that 4 oz a day will heal just about anything when it comes to joint

problems if you take it long enough. That works for me and I never

expect to need that kind of protocol ever again since I listen to what

my joints tell me and supplement accordingly. If they are the same

thing, but Goldstein's is more absorbable, then it comes down to cost.

This is not new news, but what I particularly like about your reference

is the long list of ancillary benefits that MSM yields... good stuff

huh? Anyone here ever heard of a drug that has these wonderful side

effects? Not in your life.

The blood circulation benefit, by the way, is a result of the fact that

MSM makes all connective tissue more pliable. So it makes your nails,

skin, and hair more pliable also.... makes perfect sense.

Note that Glucosamine and Chondroitin are also organic Sulfates but bot

will upset your stomach if you take much and Chondroitin is not easily

absorbed in any case.

I have been using MSM since I was 56 years old after reading an MSM

salesman's website on the subject. He sold it by the rail car load for

horses. I just turned 69 and have never looked back. It has repaired

every joint problem that I have ever known including a knee that I tore

up skiing at Mt. Killington in 1975, the juvenile arthritis that I was

born with in my hip, the lower back problems that I inherited, and a bad

case of tennis elbow.

>On the subject of MSM, I have read that Organic Sulfur Crystals more

potent than MSM. Anyone have any experience with this?

[Guest guest]

Hi Tanstaafl,

I found this little write-up about the Crystals vs MSM.

It's interesting. I may just have to try it to know if the benefits are what

they say.

The Sulfur Study

http://www.naturodoc.com/sulfurstudy.htm

The Cellular Matrix Study (referred to here as " The Sulfur Study " ) was organized

in 1999. This study was inspired by a fatal type of breast cancer, a type of

germ cell reproductive cancer that had been reported to respond to organic

sulfur.

While researching this cancer, it became obvious that the sulfur cycle plays an

important role in the regeneration of our cells. The Study also found that the

use of chemical fertilizers had effectively broken the sulfur cycle in countries

that use these fertilizers.

Diseases we hadn't even heard of have become typical, cancer has grown at an

unprecedented rate, and the quality of our food has been greatly diminished. Is

there a correlation here?

Since 1954, rates of disease in the U.S. have gone up approximately 4,000

percent. And in 1954, chemical fertilizers were mandated by our government.

Fertilizers such as ammonium nitrates and sulfates, which lack bioavailability,

appear to have broken the sulfur cycle. This appears to have contributed to the

decline of our health, wealth, mental acuity, and quality of life. We believe

that when the Study is completed, it will clearly demonstrate a connection

between the lack of sulfur and the inability of cells to regenerate in a healthy

manner.

Linus ing said that all modern diseases can be attributed to a mineral

deficiency. Though ing is best known for his work with vitamin C, his

statement was about minerals. Most researchers say that sulfur is one of the

most important of the trace minerals, around the fourth to sixth most important.

What Sulfur Does

Sulfur enables the transport of oxygen across cell membranes, and oxygen is

necessary for healthy cellular regeneration in mammals. Plants, on the other

hand, require carbon dioxide for cell regeneration, and plants can store sulfur,

while man cannot. Man eliminates carbon dioxide, and plants eliminate oxygen.

Thus, the sulfur cycle is symbiotic and vital for life as we know it.

When many health professionals are asked about sulfur, they state as if reading

from a cue card, " We get all the sulfur we need from the food we eat. " That was

true until man decided to change the way we grow our food and what we feed our

crops.

In 1920, Otto Warburg began his study of cancer in both plants and man, for

which he received a Nobel Prize in 1931. He proved that cancer in man is

anaerobic. Anaerobic, by definition, is cellular metabolism without oxygen.

" Cancer " in plants is linked to too much intracellular oxygen, or aerobic

metabolism. The use of a gas we are intended to eliminate for cellular

regeneration is not a healthy program for plants or man.

Why Most MSM Supplements Don't Work

The Study's initial research of organic sulfur had its participants go to the

store to buy MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). But what we hoped to observe did not

coincide with what the literature said about MSM. Except for gastrointestinal

improvements, our initial group had little improvement.

When we found an article about the 16 " deadly " additives found in MSM—the

anti-caking additives, we realized why our early participants were not reporting

any health improvements. These additives benefit only the packaging industry;

our health is apparently a lesser concern to them.

Sulfur, with an atomic number of 16, is known to bond with almost every other

mineral. Sulfur has demonstrated its ability to detoxify heavy metals in

conjunction with the transport of oxygen across the cell membrane, thus allowing

regeneration. Sulfur is also the key player as a precursor for the utilization

of amino acids, the body's building blocks. Of all of the amino acids, some 70

percent are sulfur-based.

This detoxification cannot happen with MSM that contains anti-caking

ingredients, because these excipients block the bioavailability of sulfur to the

cells. The same thing happens when organic sulfur is released into the ocean,

or evaporates and falls with rain—that sulfur is bound up by the chemical

fertilizers as sulfites and sulfates.

It soon became clear that the Study had to find a pure, uncontaminated form of

MSM. After a thorough search, we believe we have found it in the form of

Organic Sulfur—coarse crystal flakes which are fresh from the precipitator and

have had no further processing. This Organic Sulfur is supplied to the members

of the Study, and we follow them with photographs of their faces in an effort to

observe the cellular regeneration they experience.

The photographic followup, the newest aspect of the Study, is too recent in its

implementation to be able to share the results. However, the reports on health,

diet, and medications have been very interesting. As in the beginning of the

Study, many of these participants had been taking MSM in tablet or capsule form

for many years. Our efforts to find a pure form of MSM was worth the effort, as

their responses have clearly indicated.

Preliminary Findings

We are seeing cellular regeneration in the face photographs of our Study

participants, but it takes up to seven years to regenerate all the cells in the

body when the cells are healthy. Damaged cells from trauma or chemical

processes cannot regenerate unless the ability to transport of oxygen across the

cell membrane is functioning. Oxygen is a large molecule, so nutrient uptake

is also improved when the cell membrane becomes pliable and healthy. The purity

of the sulfur is an important factor.

Old scar tissue and various types of fibroids have been reported to resolve.

This is an example of cellular regeneration in cells that have been scarred and

unable to regenerate over the years following a trauma.

The skin is the largest organ in the body, and it's like a huge kidney or lung.

Sulfur is known as " the beauty mineral, " and what we really are saying is that

the skin is more beautiful if its cells are able to regenerate. The skin is the

backup for the liver, and someone in liver distress shows it in the cells of

their face and skin. When the internal filters are working well, the

extracellular fluids are not polluted and the immune system is allowed to

protect the body from infections.

Lab and clinical data have not been made available from the doctors or clinics

who have seen our Study members. However, we can report the following dramatic

examples of cellular regeneration:

Cancer is an anaerobic condition by definition. Study members who had cancer

and used chemotherapy who took 30 grams of sulfur during the chemotherapy had no

side effects—there was no hair loss, nausea, or diarrhea. There was, however, a

surprisingly greater reduction of cancer cells counts, as reported by their

oncologists. Lymphomas have been responding to Organic Sulfur both in decreased

pain and decreased size of tumors.

Arthritis: Organic sulfur, by comparison to commercially available MSM, is a

remarkable mineral for arthritis, and produces the effects which have been

reported. Those who had been taking Organic Sulfur reported much less pain and

increased mobility. Many reported the straightening of finger joints, along

with the resolution of internal scar tissue around the joints.

Osteoarthritis has been reported to respond to the ingestion of organic sulfur.

As can be observed in old photographs of our relatives prior to 1960, most

people were not bent over prior to the historical breakdown of the sulfur cycle

through fertilizer use.

Osteoporosis has also been addressed, though the numbers are too few to be

significant. Bone density tests are demonstrating reversal of bone thinning, or

loss of bone density.

Skin conditions including acne, psoriasis, rosacea, toenail fungus, burns, liver

spots, and disorders associated with Lupus Erythematosus have been eliminated.

Sulfur can be used both internally and externally, but the cells which

demonstrate the problem originate from the endothelial layer of the skin, which

is better addressed by internal use.

Cardiovascular: The results which were the most startling was the number of

open-heart procedures which had been scheduled and were subsequently cancelled

when the individual's EKG returned to normal. This happened in as little as six

weeks of ingesting Organic Sulfur. 54 cases like this have been reported. Our

blood vessels also regenerate, and we believe that these cancelled surgical

procedures could be an example of such regeneration. The group has also seen

the reduction of scar tissue, high blood pressure, and the breakdown of calcium

plaque in the arteries. Thus, we believe organic sulfur would be likely to

benefit Alzheimer's sufferers as well.

Diabetes is helped, because sulfur is necessary in the production of insulin as

well as other sulfur-based amino acids necessary for the metabolism of

carbohydrates.

Gastrointestinal disorders including acid indigestion, GERD, irritable bowel

syndrome, leaky gut, and chronic constipation have been addressed with a dosage

of organic sulfur at a 4 percent level of body weight twice daily. Other

digestive disorders such as ulcerative colitis and Crohn's Disease have not been

observed to date, but we feel that the symptoms found in the literature will be

alleviated with the use of sulfur.

Liver: One of our members regenerated his liver after suffering 25 years from

Hepatitis C, after 15 months of taking two tablespoons of organic sulfur twice a

day.

Parasites find that the lining of the stomach and intestines too " pliable or

slippery " to sink their hooks into.

Migraines and headaches have been alleviated. Migraines seem to take longer

than other types of headaches, and the sulfur can often can produce a migraine

which then may require more sulfur to address the possible detoxification

process that is occurring.

ADD, ADHD, hyperactivity, depression, and mood swings are greatly relieved with

the use of organic sulfur. Organic sulfur acts as a stabilizer or mood elevator

and relaxes the nervous system. We have reports of people getting off

antidepressants and Ritalin within as little as three days of starting to take

Organic Sulfur. Those who had been on antidepressants for a long time took a

little longer. The ability of the body to produce its own glutathione appears

to be the reason.

Respiratory: Just as impressive were the Study members who were suffering from

lung dysfunctions such as allergies, asthma, and emphysema. Those with more

serious conditions stopped depending upon the bottled oxygen they had been

carrying around, in spite of the fact that they might have continued smoking.

Glaucoma relief has been reported by Dr. Eldon Haus, MD and by a few members of

the Study. It appears that there is regeneration of the cells of the " drainage "

system of the trabecular meshwork at the inner base of the iris. Subjects who

suffer from increased intraocular pressure found that the drops they used to

control their eye pressure often inhibited their ability to drive or read, where

sulfur has not demonstrated any such corneal disturbance.

Hair: Gray- and white-haired members have experienced a return to their natural

color hair. The natural color that gradually returns to the nape of the neck

indicates the regeneration of the pigment glands at the base of the hair

follicle. (NaturoDoc Note: Reversal of hair loss is also being reported by our

users.)

Teeth and gums: The power of oxygen may be best demonstrated in its ability to

eradicate gum disease. Organic sulfur, when used as an additive to toothpaste

or tooth powder, appears to eliminate the plaque buildup on the teeth, but more

importantly, it appears to regenerate the gums and " tighten " previously loose

teeth.

Cellular Regeneration Requires Oxygen Transport Across Cell Membranes

Cellular regeneration appears to be closely tied to the body's ability to

transport oxygen across cell membranes. As stated earlier, this is a primary

function of organic sulfur.

A study of the periodic table of elements shows sulfur, selenium, and tellurium

as being the only three oxygen transport minerals. Further study shows that

chlorine and fluorine are detrimental to such oxygen transport, yet these

elements have been added to make our teeth " healthier " and our water " more pure "

or free from bacterial infestation. These elements are poisonous at higher

concentrations, and they block the uptake of both oxygen and sulfur. Drinking

city tap water is discouraged in the Study for this reason.

The Study believes that a widespread deficiency in the mineral sulfur may be

responsible for the great increase in disease in the U.S. Healthy cellular

metabolism is the basis for cellular regeneration of all of our cells. This is

the bottom line for the human body. Without intracellular oxygen, we begin to

degenerate long before our biological clock runs out.

We began life as a single cell, and from that one cell we have made and

regenerated all the cells of our body in a healthy manner, unless that

regeneration is stymied by the food we eat.

Since 1954, our food supply has been devoid of sulfur, thanks to the use of

chemical fertilizers and the overprocessing of our foods. Unfortunately, our

nation is not about to cease the use of these profitable chemicals, which

involve commercial agribusiness, medicine, insurance, as well as genetic and

designer foods. However, we can regenerate our internal sulfur cycle with

organic sulfur, provided that this sulfur compound has not suffered the same

indignities of science that our food supply has and continues to suffer.

Finland, alarmed over the increasing disease rate of its population, took a hard

look at chemical fertilizers and banned all of them, fearing the levels of

cadmium. They were not aware of the sulfur connection or Krebs cycle. Since

doing so, they have become a leading supplier of " Bio-Friendly " or completely

organic foods in Europe. They have also seen their disease rates drop to one

tenth of the 1985 levels. In 1985, the U.S. was at the same marked disease

level as Finland. Why are we not following suit and banning all chemical

fertilizers? It appears that the epidemiology of those countries using chemical

fertilizers have an increase in disease, while those that use organically based

fertilizing methods do not.

Organic sulfur is a food, not a drug. Organic Sulfur is not stored in the body

and it is considered to be nontoxic. Attempts to kill mice, rats, and Oregon

State Death Row inmates failed to reach a toxic level even at 200 grams or

almost half pound a day.

Since 1999, there have been 1,100 members of the Study, and new participants are

welcome. The Study is based upon and supported solely by this work. If you

would like to become a participant in the Study, please contact:

Cellular Matrix Study

801-290-2013 (U.S.)

Email: organicsulfur@...

> > On the subject of MSM, I have read that Organic Sulfur Crystals more

> > potent than MSM. Anyone have any experience with this?

> >

> > Consider the organic sulfur crystal study update

> > http://www.naturalnews.com/031441_organic_sulfur_crystals.html

> >

> > Organic sulfur crystals are a miracle food that provides amazing health

> > benefits

> > http://www.NaturalNews.com/029263_sulfur_joint_health.html

> >

> > Some NaturalNews readers are probably already familiar with

> > methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), the chemical name for sulfur, and some may

> > already take this supplement, but did you know that many powdered

> > supplement versions of MSM have lost most of their potency due to

> > processing? When sulfur crystals are converted into powdered form, as

> > most are, they lose about 85 percent of their effectiveness. And they

> > become even less effective when synthetic anti-caking agents are added.

>

> <snip>

>

> Interesting... it is much more expensive, but maybe it is worth it?

>

> Maybe, maybe not... it is also interesting to note that the recommended

> dosage for this stuff is 1-2 Tablespoons, and the recommended dosage of

> the MSM powder Jim recommended is 1-2 TEAspoons...

>

> So, not only is the stuff Jim recommends much much cheaper, you use less

> of it...

>

> As a purist, I don't mind paying more for a better quality product, but

> I'd sure like to know if there is any legitimacy to the argument about

> crystals vs powder... also, I guess that could explain the dosage

> difference - ie, crystals have more 'volume', so it takes more to equal

> the same amount you get in a teaspoon of powder.

>

> <sigh>

>

[Guest guest]

There are a lot of bioavailable organic sulfur compounds in undenatured whey;

the sulfur in this source is adequate and this is is the probable reason that

people respond to whey even though they don't take MSM.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi Tanstaafl,

>

> I found this little write-up about the Crystals vs MSM.

>

> It's interesting. I may just have to try it to know if the benefits are what

they say.

>

> The Sulfur Study

> http://www.naturodoc.com/sulfurstudy.htm

>

> The Cellular Matrix Study (referred to here as " The Sulfur Study " ) was

organized in 1999. This study was inspired by a fatal type of breast cancer, a

type of germ cell reproductive cancer that had been reported to respond to

organic sulfur.

>

[Guest guest]

Mike, I checked out this website and I noticed their MSM for horses is said to

be " granular " . When I looked up granular MSM it appears to be either the same or

similar to the crystal form:

http://www.msm.com/lignisul-msm-granular-three-pounds.html

Do you think they are indeed the same thing? They have a close-up picture of the

MSM for horses on your link and it certainly looks crystalized rather than

powdered. Since you use it, what would you say about this?

Best,

Dee

-- In Coconut Oil , " michaelinde " <michaelinde@...>

wrote:

>

>

> Alobar

> I have learned much from you thes past few years. So now may I can return

something. Here is a much cheaper source of msm.

> mike

>

> http://www.jeffersequine.com/pro-msm/camid/EQU/cp/11585/

>

[Guest guest]

Correction: The picture of the granules is on the site I referenced rather than

on the site for horses. Would like to hear how it looks to you.

Dee

> >

> >

> > Alobar

> > I have learned much from you thes past few years. So now may I can return

something. Here is a much cheaper source of msm.

> > mike

> >

> > http://www.jeffersequine.com/pro-msm/camid/EQU/cp/11585/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-03-04 1:14 PM, Deneen wrote:

> When we found an article about the 16 " deadly " additives found in

> MSM—the anti-caking additives, we realized why our early participants

> were not reporting any health improvements. These additives benefit only

> the packaging industry; our health is apparently a lesser concern to them.

Fwiw, the MSM that Jim had recommended claims that it has NO additives,

it is pure MSM... or so they say...

[Guest guest]

I ordered some crystals this morning so I will let you know...

> > When we found an article about the 16 " deadly " additives found in

> > MSM—the anti-caking additives, we realized why our early participants

> > were not reporting any health improvements. These additives benefit only

> > the packaging industry; our health is apparently a lesser concern to them.

>

> Fwiw, the MSM that Jim had recommended claims that it has NO additives,

> it is pure MSM... or so they say...

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan:

I just read the label on my NOW and see no reference to organic

sulfurs, but I am certainly not doubting you here.

Obviously it is a question of how much. As I discovered years ago,

now, even normal supplementation (IE gram amounts) did nothing in terms

of actual healing for me and I was trying every supplement out there...

Hyaluronic acid, Tart Cherry Juice, Glucosamine, MSM (in 1 gm tabs),

Chondroitin, Sam E, Devil's Claw, Boswellia, UC II, 2 Combo, Shark

Cartridge Sea Cucumber, MicroLactin... and, yes, all at once. I was

woofing down hands full of supplements daily... and the best that I

could do was tread water. The only thing that did much in small

quantity (1 gram or so each) was MicroLactin, which I still take along

with a tablespoonful of MSM every day or so. Yes, MicroLactin does work

to some degree, but it is not MSM by any means.

The point was at age 56 I was determined not want to go through my

" golden years " clinging to fools gold. Thanks to MSM, it worked great.

Today, I am now in better shape than I was, joint wise, at age 26... by

a long shot. At age 26, my hip joint got so bad that I could not even

drive a car. I thought that it was just the result of inherited

problems (like my Mom did) that could not be beaten. That was what all

of my relatives thought and most still think.

Duncan, I love your whey protocol. It tastes great and makes a lot of

sense, but I can virtually guarantee you that I would have had knee

replacement surgery over ten years ago as my sports doctor suggested,

without MSM, even if I were taking whey then. The Dr.said that I had

two years left, at best, with the steel brace that he handed me. He

said that he had the same problem and there was simply nothing that

could be done for me other than surgery.

Have you see what knee replacement entails? This is cave man tactics.

They literally saw off your leg and hammer in a metal knee. It is

totally gruesome stuff! Then they tell you that it will last twenty

years. What they don't tell you is that in twenty years, it is subject

to breaking off, leaving you sprawled out on the sidewalk with a two

part leg. That vision just did not sit right with me.

That right knee actually become totally better... better than my left

uninjured knee as a result of MSM This occurred all because of the the

MSM salesman who, like you, knew a few things that actually make people

better. The best thing is that it only took a couple of months for all

of this to occur and the results started in a matter of days.

Cheers,

Jim

>There are a lot of bioavailable organic sulfur compounds in

undenatured whey; the sulfur in this source is adequate >and this is is

the probable reason that people respond to whey even though they don't

take MSM.

>all good,

>Duncan

[Guest guest]

Where did your order the crystals from?

From: Deneen <deenpac@...>

Subject: Re: MSM

Coconut Oil

Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 3:29 PM

 

I ordered some crystals this morning so I will let you know...

> > When we found an article about the 16 " deadly " additives found in

> > MSM—the anti-caking additives, we realized why our early participants

> > were not reporting any health improvements. These additives benefit only

> > the packaging industry; our health is apparently a lesser concern to them.

>

> Fwiw, the MSM that Jim had recommended claims that it has NO additives,

> it is pure MSM... or so they say...

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, My daughter has rather severe problems with her back and hip joints for

whch she has to go to the chiropracter constantly for adjustments as well

as she has tried  acupuncture. Now looking at various types of exercise that

might help.

Do you think MSM will help and please advise where you purchase your msm, how

much and how you take it. Comments from anyone else will also be appreciated.

Agnes

 

From: Huuman <huuman60@...>

Subject: Re: MSM

Coconut Oil

Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 6:33 PM

 

Hi Duncan:

I just read the label on my NOW and see no reference to organic

sulfurs, but I am certainly not doubting you here.

Obviously it is a question of how much. As I discovered years ago,

now, even normal supplementation (IE gram amounts) did nothing in terms

of actual healing for me and I was trying every supplement out there...

Hyaluronic acid, Tart Cherry Juice, Glucosamine, MSM (in 1 gm tabs),

Chondroitin, Sam E, Devil's Claw, Boswellia, UC II, 2 Combo, Shark

Cartridge Sea Cucumber, MicroLactin... and, yes, all at once. I was

woofing down hands full of supplements daily... and the best that I

could do was tread water. The only thing that did much in small

quantity (1 gram or so each) was MicroLactin, which I still take along

with a tablespoonful of MSM every day or so. Yes, MicroLactin does work

to some degree, but it is not MSM by any means.

The point was at age 56 I was determined not want to go through my

" golden years " clinging to fools gold. Thanks to MSM, it worked great.

Today, I am now in better shape than I was, joint wise, at age 26... by

a long shot. At age 26, my hip joint got so bad that I could not even

drive a car. I thought that it was just the result of inherited

problems (like my Mom did) that could not be beaten. That was what all

of my relatives thought and most still think.

Duncan, I love your whey protocol. It tastes great and makes a lot of

sense, but I can virtually guarantee you that I would have had knee

replacement surgery over ten years ago as my sports doctor suggested,

without MSM, even if I were taking whey then. The Dr.said that I had

two years left, at best, with the steel brace that he handed me. He

said that he had the same problem and there was simply nothing that

could be done for me other than surgery.

Have you see what knee replacement entails? This is cave man tactics.

They literally saw off your leg and hammer in a metal knee. It is

totally gruesome stuff! Then they tell you that it will last twenty

years. What they don't tell you is that in twenty years, it is subject

to breaking off, leaving you sprawled out on the sidewalk with a two

part leg. That vision just did not sit right with me.

That right knee actually become totally better... better than my left

uninjured knee as a result of MSM This occurred all because of the the

MSM salesman who, like you, knew a few things that actually make people

better. The best thing is that it only took a couple of months for all

of this to occur and the results started in a matter of days.

Cheers,

Jim

>There are a lot of bioavailable organic sulfur compounds in

undenatured whey; the sulfur in this source is adequate >and this is is

the probable reason that people respond to whey even though they don't

take MSM.

>all good,

>Duncan

[Guest guest]

This is the site where I got mine from www.msm-msm.com

________________________________

From: Theta <calblonde1@...>

Coconut Oil

Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:45:24 PM

Subject: Re: Re: MSM

Where did your order the crystals from?

From: Deneen <deenpac@...>

Subject: Re: MSM

Coconut Oil

Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 3:29 PM

I ordered some crystals this morning so I will let you know...

> > When we found an article about the 16 " deadly " additives found in

> > MSM—the anti-caking additives, we realized why our early participants

> > were not reporting any health improvements. These additives benefit only

> > the packaging industry; our health is apparently a lesser concern to them.

>

> Fwiw, the MSM that Jim had recommended claims that it has NO additives,

> it is pure MSM... or so they say...

>

[Guest guest]

--I havent used this product yet I had came across this site some time ago and

had bookmarked it for future re.

mike.

Right now just using de, l glutamine vco. Found a good source of glutamine(2

pounds pure stuff on ebay. )

mike

[Guest guest]

Jim, did you mention the brand of msm you used to get these results? If so I

think I missed it. And how much did you say you took before achieving these

results - was it 1/4 cup (4 TBS) per day?

Thanks,

Dee

>

>snip>

> That right knee actually become totally better... better than my left

> uninjured knee as a result of MSM This occurred all because of the the

> MSM salesman who, like you, knew a few things that actually make people

> better. The best thing is that it only took a couple of months for all

> of this to occur and the results started in a matter of days.

>

> Cheers,

> Jim

>

>

> >There are a lot of bioavailable organic sulfur compounds in

> undenatured whey; the sulfur in this source is adequate >and this is is

> the probable reason that people respond to whey even though they don't

> take MSM.

>

> >all good,

>

> >Duncan

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning Jim. Organic sulfurs occur in many amino acids. The delicate

sulfur=sulfur link is the part of interest that is preserved in undenatured whey

to make glutathione. Cooked proteins probably still contain the sulfur but the

link and the protein have then been denatured.

Because the sulfur weight is small compared to the huge protein molecules, thus

low in overall proportion to the protein, gram doses probably are best achieved

as 35 gram doses of whole undenatured whey.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi Duncan:

>

> I just read the label on my NOW and see no reference to organic

> sulfurs, but I am certainly not doubting you here.

>

> Obviously it is a question of how much. As I discovered years ago,

> now, even normal supplementation (IE gram amounts) did nothing in terms

> of actual healing for me and I was trying every supplement out there...

> Hyaluronic acid, Tart Cherry Juice, Glucosamine, MSM (in 1 gm tabs),

> Chondroitin, Sam E, Devil's Claw, Boswellia, UC II, 2 Combo, Shark

> Cartridge Sea Cucumber, MicroLactin... and, yes, all at once. I was

> woofing down hands full of supplements daily... and the best that I

> could do was tread water. The only thing that did much in small

> quantity (1 gram or so each) was MicroLactin, which I still take along

> with a tablespoonful of MSM every day or so. Yes, MicroLactin does work

> to some degree, but it is not MSM by any means.

>

> The point was at age 56 I was determined not want to go through my

> " golden years " clinging to fools gold. Thanks to MSM, it worked great.

> Today, I am now in better shape than I was, joint wise, at age 26... by

> a long shot. At age 26, my hip joint got so bad that I could not even

> drive a car. I thought that it was just the result of inherited

> problems (like my Mom did) that could not be beaten. That was what all

> of my relatives thought and most still think.

>

> Duncan, I love your whey protocol. It tastes great and makes a lot of

> sense, but I can virtually guarantee you that I would have had knee

> replacement surgery over ten years ago as my sports doctor suggested,

> without MSM, even if I were taking whey then. The Dr.said that I had

> two years left, at best, with the steel brace that he handed me. He

> said that he had the same problem and there was simply nothing that

> could be done for me other than surgery.

>

> Have you see what knee replacement entails? This is cave man tactics.

> They literally saw off your leg and hammer in a metal knee. It is

> totally gruesome stuff! Then they tell you that it will last twenty

> years. What they don't tell you is that in twenty years, it is subject

> to breaking off, leaving you sprawled out on the sidewalk with a two

> part leg. That vision just did not sit right with me.

>

> That right knee actually become totally better... better than my left

> uninjured knee as a result of MSM This occurred all because of the the

> MSM salesman who, like you, knew a few things that actually make people

> better. The best thing is that it only took a couple of months for all

> of this to occur and the results started in a matter of days.

>

> Cheers,

> Jim

>

>

> >There are a lot of bioavailable organic sulfur compounds in

> undenatured whey; the sulfur in this source is adequate >and this is is

> the probable reason that people respond to whey even though they don't

> take MSM.

>

> >all good,

>

> >Duncan

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Theta,

I ordered from here:

http://www.healthtalkhawaii.com/Health_Talk_Hawaii/Products_%26_Services.html

But that is a 3 month supply. I could have ordered from here as well, in a

smaller quantity:

http://www.naturodoc.com/LB-OS.htm

I am very intrigued by this and will certainly share with the group what, if

anything, happens.

I have just started using Lugol's and want to share this with group, but will

start another thread about it.

~deneen

>

> From: Deneen <deenpac@...>

> Subject: Re: MSM

> Coconut Oil

> Date: Friday, March 4, 2011, 3:29 PM

> I ordered some crystals this morning so I will let you know...

[Guest guest]

Hi Dee:

I buy mine on ebay... & gave the address previously. But in those days I

bought it from some guy who sold it for horses.

4oz/ day at the max rate. Now I take much less.

Regards,

Jim

>Jim, did you mention the brand of msm you used to get these results?

If so I think I missed it. And how much did you >say you took before

achieving these results - was it 1/4 cup (4 TBS) per day?

>Thanks,

>Dee

[Guest guest]

Let me hop on the MSM bandwagon...For the ladies (and men) MSM will make your

skin softer and less wrinkly. I've noticed this with just 1/4 teaspoon a day.

Here's some informative, short links.

MSM - " The Connector "

http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/MSM-for-joint-pain.htm

MSM benefits

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/msm-benefits.html

MSM Faq - How much to take

http://msm-msm.com/faq.html

MSM - The beauty mineral

http://www.hbcprotocols.com/products-MSM360.html

MSM functions and benefits

http://centralcoastnutrition.com/msmnaturalsulfurtheconnector1.aspx

All about Glucosamine and MSM

http://www.1backpain.com/all_about_glucosamine_and_msm.htm

- I read some articles that said 1500 mg Glucosamine daily plus MSM were the

most effective against pain in a couple of studies. Chondroitin was NOT needed.

Swansonvitamins has very good prices on Glucosamine. I saw this in 2-3 articles

and cant find them now, but here's one.

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/gluco.htm

Difference between Lignisul and OptiMSM - (2 main types of MSM)

(I noticed a better feeling with OptiMSM)

http://www.msm-msm.com/oldbbs/messages/6931.html

I buy OptiMSM Flakes, as I think they are less processed than the Powder at -

http://www.msm-msm.com. They are a small friendly business. Also, my Stepdad has

had trouble walking for awhile and started taking 1/4 teaspoon of OptiMSM and

said he " noticed a difference and felt much better " the first day!

> >

> >snip>

> > That right knee actually become totally better... better than my left

uninjured knee as a result of MSM This occurred all because of the the MSM

salesman who, like you, knew a few things that actually make people better. The

best thing is that it only took a couple of months for all of this to occur and

the results started in a matter of days.

> >

> > Cheers,

> > Jim

[Guest guest]

This has been a great thread!

I've got a whole LOT of MSM stored away, and I think it's all lignusul.

Does anyone know if there is a " shelf life " with MSM? Does it

deteriorate over time?

That started nagging at me when I saw the complaints about taste. I

taste it, but it doesn't faze me in the least. But I've taught myself to

put up with a lot of icky tasting stuff over the years, such as brewer's

yeast ( but in juice). Liver is another story altogether, though.

But this non-problem with taste is causing me to wonder if it could lose

potency.

Sharon

Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of skpounds14

> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 7:11 PM

>

> Let me hop on the MSM bandwagon...For the ladies (and men) MSM will

> make your skin softer and less wrinkly. I've noticed this with just

1/4 teaspoon

> a day. Here's some informative, short links.

>

> MSM - " The Connector "

> http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/MSM-for-joint-pain.htm

>

> MSM benefits

> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/msm-benefits.html

>

> MSM Faq - How much to take

> http://msm-msm.com/faq.html

>

> MSM - The beauty mineral

> http://www.hbcprotocols.com/products-MSM360.html

>

> MSM functions and benefits

> http://centralcoastnutrition.com/msmnaturalsulfurtheconnector1.aspx

>

> All about Glucosamine and MSM

> http://www.1backpain.com/all_about_glucosamine_and_msm.htm

>

> - I read some articles that said 1500 mg Glucosamine daily plus MSM

were the

> most effective against pain in a couple of studies. Chondroitin was

NOT

> needed. Swansonvitamins has very good prices on Glucosamine. I saw

this in

> 2-3 articles and cant find them now, but here's one.

>

> http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/gluco.htm

>

> Difference between Lignisul and OptiMSM - (2 main types of MSM)

> (I noticed a better feeling with OptiMSM)

> http://www.msm-msm.com/oldbbs/messages/6931.html

>

> I buy OptiMSM Flakes, as I think they are less processed than the

Powder at -

> http://www.msm-msm.com. They are a small friendly business. Also, my

> Stepdad has had trouble walking for awhile and started taking 1/4

teaspoon of

> OptiMSM and said he " noticed a difference and felt much better " the

first day!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > >snip>

> > > That right knee actually become totally better... better than my

left

> uninjured knee as a result of MSM This occurred all because of the

the MSM

> salesman who, like you, knew a few things that actually make people

better.

> The best thing is that it only took a couple of months for all of this

to occur and

> the results started in a matter of days.

> > >

> > > Cheers,

> > > Jim

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for all the great info. Plus, I had been thinking about switching to

OptiMSM from Swansons and your experience, and that of your step dad, clinched

it.

Best,

Dee

>

> Let me hop on the MSM bandwagon...For the ladies (and men) MSM will make your

skin softer and less wrinkly. I've noticed this with just 1/4 teaspoon a day.

Here's some informative, short links.

>

> MSM - " The Connector "

> http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/MSM-for-joint-pain.htm

>

> MSM benefits

> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/msm-benefits.html

>

> MSM Faq - How much to take

> http://msm-msm.com/faq.html

>

> MSM - The beauty mineral

> http://www.hbcprotocols.com/products-MSM360.html

>

> MSM functions and benefits

> http://centralcoastnutrition.com/msmnaturalsulfurtheconnector1.aspx

>

> All about Glucosamine and MSM

> http://www.1backpain.com/all_about_glucosamine_and_msm.htm

>

> - I read some articles that said 1500 mg Glucosamine daily plus MSM were the

most effective against pain in a couple of studies. Chondroitin was NOT needed.

Swansonvitamins has very good prices on Glucosamine. I saw this in 2-3 articles

and cant find them now, but here's one.

>

> http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/gluco.htm

>

> Difference between Lignisul and OptiMSM - (2 main types of MSM)

> (I noticed a better feeling with OptiMSM)

> http://www.msm-msm.com/oldbbs/messages/6931.html

>

> I buy OptiMSM Flakes, as I think they are less processed than the Powder at -

http://www.msm-msm.com. They are a small friendly business. Also, my Stepdad has

had trouble walking for awhile and started taking 1/4 teaspoon of OptiMSM and

said he " noticed a difference and felt much better " the first day!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much Dee. One thing, I would be picky about the type of MSM I

buy. I love Swanson and order from them alot, but I noticed they don't say what

type of MSM is in their powder. I had bought Source Naturals OptiMSM Powder and

later bought the Flakes from msm-msm.com (99.9% pure) and they sure seemed to

work better to me. (I'm not promoting them, just believe they sell high-quality

MSM) They're a little more expensive but at 1/4 to 1/2 tsp day, it lasts a long

time. I always try to buy the best quality...when I can afford it. :-)

For the ladies, MSM is a really a no-brainer and will make your skin look nicer!

" MSM is necessary for collagen synthesis: skin, hair and nails " Start off with

low-doses as the FAQ said, MSM will detox and don't want to overdo it. I see the

difference daily on my 51 year old skin just with 1/4 teaspoon. (And older,

mature women are the most beautiful anyway...don't let anyone kid you,

experience + beauty + personality is BEST! So you all will look mah-velous!)

Sorry they can have the latest 20 somethings....yuk!

Quality of MSM products

- http://purehealthsystems.com/msmqua.html

- http://www.beta-glucan-info.com/msm_quality_issues.htm

Best to you,

Underrated 80's music group - The Outfield

Classic Rock Ballad__Def Leppard - Stand Up (Kick Love Into Motion)

(Google title, can hear it on Youtube!)

>

> ,

>

> Thanks for all the great info. Plus, I had been thinking about switching to

OptiMSM from Swansons and your experience, and that of your step dad, clinched

it.

>

> Best,

> Dee

[Guest guest]

Hi Agnes:

I certainly do. Also add Duncan's whey protocol and make sure that she

gets plenty of exercise. You also might add to that Interval training

(see Dr. Mercola's site for videos on that). Without exercise, the

nutrients can't move into the joints.

The point is that Ducan may be correct, but my MSM protocol absolutely

works. I have tested on myself and everyone that I know with joint

problems who is not hung up on allotropic medicine. It has never failed

as far as I know. Also, there is no such thing as an organic sulfur

overload. Too much is cheap insurance, and you simply pass whatever you

don't need.

Finally, even with daily MSM, MicroLactin and Whey supplementation, I

still hyper extend a knee, elbow, etc. occasionally a bit playing tennis

and the answer is always to take a couple of heaping tablespoons of MSM

as soon as I get home. From there, I just move on and forget about it.

So far, in ten years, recovery is always immediate. Life is good.

Read my past posts on amounts, etc. There is a lot to this. I buy mine

on ebay by the kilo..

Regards,

Jim

>Jim, My daughter has rather severe problems with her back and hip

joints for whch she has to go to the chiropracter constantly for

adjustments as well as she has tried acupuncture. Now looking at

various types of exercise that might help.

Do you think MSM will help and please advise where you purchase your

msm, how much and how you take it. Comments from anyone else will also

be appreciated.

Agnes<

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> " (And older, mature women are the most beautiful anyway...don't let anyone kid

you, experience + beauty + personality is BEST! So you all will look

mah-velous!) Sorry they can have the latest 20 somethings....yuk! "

Ha, ha, you get a BIG smooch from me on that one! And I agree with you

about Swansons. Usually they are very good about providing info on their

products but was disappointed they said nothing about the type or manufacture of

the MSM.

Thanks again,

Dee

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Thanks for all the great info. Plus, I had been thinking about switching to

OptiMSM from Swansons and your experience, and that of your step dad, clinched

it.

> >

> > Best,

> > Dee

>

[Guest guest]

>*> Thank you very much Dee. One thing, I would be picky about the type of MSM I

>buy. I love Swanson and order from them alot, but I noticed they don't say what

>type of MSM is in their powder. I had bought Source Naturals OptiMSM Powder and

>later bought the Flakes from msm-msm.com (99.9% pure) and they sure seemed to

>work better to me. (I'm not promoting them, just believe they sell high-quality

>MSM) They're a little more expensive but at 1/4 to 1/2 tsp day, it lasts a long

>time. I always try to buy the best quality...when I can afford it. :-)

>>*>Another site recommended the flakes from msm-msm.com also and so that

>is what I just bough, too. They recommended them for the quality standard the

>company maintains.

>

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