Re: HGH increase with amino acids

[Guest guest]

Hi Duncan,

Thank you for the info on an alternative to SomaLife. The cost savings will be

hugely appreciated. Thank you!

SomaLife (Youth) has a list of ingredients that include:

L-Lysine HCI

L-Arginine HCI

L-Ornithine HCI

L-Glutamine

Glycine

L-Leucine

L-Isoleucine

L-Valine

We are comparing that with only:

Arginine Pyroglutamate

Lysine

So, I want to make sure that I'm understanding that the benefits are the same!?

.. . . . and that I'm not overlooking different short- and/or long-term

results/side effects/etc. that may be obvious to you! I guess because Somalife

is the first supplement of this kind that I've taken, I'm using it as a base of

comparison.

A lateral move to a much less expensive supplement would be super! If you

could, please let me know if there are any differences (that I should expect) if

I switch. As always, your interest and time if MUCH APPRECIATED.

Love and Laughter,

Anne

HGH increase with amino acids

L-arginine and l-lysine alone or together did not increase HGH very much in

the research and l-arginine competes for uptake with l-lysine. Because arginine

pyroglutamate does not compete for the same pathway lysine is complementary and

synergistic with it; 1:1 1200 mg of each was used in the Isidori study.

I compared arginine pyroglutamate to arginine alpha-ketoglutarate and it seems

the ketoglutarate follows the lysine metabolic pathway so may be of less benefit

with lysine.

So, arginine pyroglutamate and l-lysine 1:1 at 1200 mg each (or higher is

the substantiated formula. If you are considering a bulk buy to reduce cost,

here's one that's within dollars of the next product and the 1:1 formula to

match the Isidori study.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-Arginine-Pyroglutamate-Lysine-Powder-1000-Grams-/33052\

2759261

I'll probably buy mine from a different dealer but it will be the same

formula, instead of Life Extension's arginine ketoglutarate/ornithine

ketoglutarate I bought last time.

LEFs seems to be " working " on Jo's hot flashes, which have reduced in

frequency in three months from four during the night and three daily to none at

all most days, even with a potentially flooded lysine metabolism pathway due to

adding LEF l-lysine to the LEF formula. Other than anti-aging she's not treating

perimenopausal symptoms. I think we've anti-aged her again in this round

So don't rule out the LEF formula but the bulk Arginine-Pyroglutamate-Lysine

buy is pretty inexpensive. You'd mix a tsp in a glass of 5-alive, lemon or

orange juice, and I've learned you can benefit by doing it up to 4 times daily.

I'd been suggesting it would work in theory but it appears to be substantiated.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-Arginine-Pyroglutamate-Lysine-Powder-1000-Grams-/33052\

2759261

All good,

Duncan Crow One of Curezone.com's Best Health Sites

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow

[Guest guest]

Anne, I read that doctors failed to duplicate the HGH trigger to the same extent

when they copied SomaLife gHP. Perhaps they used l-arginine or arginine

ketoglutarate and not arginine pyroglutamate as was used in the original Isidori

research. Isidori is apparently widely misquoted from the abstract, which said

l-arginine, but the study used arginine pyroglutamate.

Three other amino acids in SomaLife that increase HGH release a bit are glycine

glutamine and ornithine but they are additive it seems to the main effect,

considering the arginine pyroglutamate/l-lysine works 10 times better together

than either one does alone. The branched chain amino acids in the blend reduce

muscle wasting during workouts so aren't essential to this HGH-increasing

exercise, and they occur in undenatured whey so between you and me we're not

deficient anyway

LEF's daytime GH trigger uses l-arginine and l-ornithine and I added l-lysine to

that blend following the Isidori study. That's what eliminated Jo's

perimenopausal symptoms in the last three months; she's still on it. Seems at 50

she is still fertile and also has energy and drives that are attributed to much

younger women, not bad for entering her golden years ...and this youthful

effect is in fact common in anti-agers who use HGH enhancers.

The combination of l-lysine and arginine pyroglutamate synergises and it works

better than l-lysine and l-arginine together. You can increase the dose or take

it more often. I'll let you now how I like it over the winter as I'll be taking

it twice a day, plus sublingual pregnenolone 25 mg. Let's compare notes in April

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi Duncan,

>

> Thank you for the info on an alternative to SomaLife. The cost savings will

be hugely appreciated. Thank you!

>

> SomaLife (Youth) has a list of ingredients that include:

> L-Lysine HCI

> L-Arginine HCI

> L-Ornithine HCI

> L-Glutamine

> Glycine

> L-Leucine

> L-Isoleucine

> L-Valine

>

> We are comparing that with only:

> Arginine Pyroglutamate

> Lysine

>

> So, I want to make sure that I'm understanding that the benefits are the

same!? . . . . and that I'm not overlooking different short- and/or long-term

results/side effects/etc. that may be obvious to you! I guess because Somalife

is the first supplement of this kind that I've taken, I'm using it as a base of

comparison.

>

> A lateral move to a much less expensive supplement would be super! If you

could, please let me know if there are any differences (that I should expect) if

I switch. As always, your interest and time if MUCH APPRECIATED.

>

> Love and Laughter,

> Anne

>

[Guest guest]

On 2011-10-23 2:53 PM, Anne Zipkes <acutez@...> wrote:

> Thank you for the info on an alternative to SomaLife. The cost savings

> will be hugely appreciated. Thank you!

You are aware that SomaLife just had a pretty large price drop, correct?

You might want to re-compare based on the latest pricing.

[Guest guest]

> > Thank you for the info on an alternative to SomaLife. The cost savings

> > will be hugely appreciated. Thank you!

>

> You are aware that SomaLife just had a pretty large price drop, correct?

>

> You might want to re-compare based on the latest pricing.

>

Hi Tanstaaf1,

Yes, I'm already taking advantage of SomaLife's price reduction. BUT, it's

still +/-$80.00 door-to-door. An Arginine Pyroglutamate & Lysine mix

(pharmaceutical grade) is about 1/4 the cost. That's a huge saving. I'll be

going to the new blend next month. I have it on good authority that it will

demonstrate the same benefits.

Love and Laughter,

Anne

[Guest guest]

On 2011-10-24 11:03 AM, Anne Zipkes <acutez@...> wrote:

> Yes, I'm already taking advantage of SomaLife's price reduction. BUT,

> it's still +/-$80.00 door-to-door. An Arginine Pyroglutamate & Lysine

> mix (pharmaceutical grade) is about 1/4 the cost. That's a huge saving.

> I'll be going to the new blend next month. I have it on good authority

> that it will demonstrate the same benefits.

Yes, but as Duncan has pointed out, this is *not* the same thing and is

*not* going to provide the same benefits...

[Guest guest]

On 2011-10-24 11:03 AM, Anne Zipkes <acutez@...> wrote:

> Yes, I'm already taking advantage of SomaLife's price reduction. BUT,

> it's still +/-$80.00 door-to-door.

You get an additional 20% (I think it was 20%) discount if you buy a

full years supply (12 months) in advance. I always ask about bulk

discounts like this, and most providers have them even if they aren't

listed.

[Guest guest]

Good point about the SomaLife price reductions. They couldn't offer reduction as

long as the product was sold by MLM marketing teams but when they killed that

and went to a wholesale-retail structure they could offer wholesale lots.

I've been using SomaLife off and on since 2001 with fantastic results but I

ordered Arginine pyroglutamate blended with l-lysine this time for myself.

I know my biology responds well to these approaches generally, and this deal

represents a year's worth even at 3 grams twice daily, for about $65 with

shipping.

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/330522759261?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT & _trksid=p3984.m14\

39.l2649>

I just hope I respond to it as well as I did the SomaLife gHP.

all good,

Duncan

> > Yes, I'm already taking advantage of SomaLife's price reduction. BUT,

> > it's still +/-$80.00 door-to-door.

>

> You get an additional 20% (I think it was 20%) discount if you buy a

> full years supply (12 months) in advance. I always ask about bulk

> discounts like this, and most providers have them even if they aren't

> listed.

>

[Guest guest]

Anne and I are following the original Isidori research that eventually spawned

SomaLife gHP and the other HGH-releasing amino acid blends. Isidori's research

used arginine pyroglutamate and l-lysine, which might be less effective than a

fully-optimised blend like SomaLife, but research did get a 500%-700% HGH

increase with it and it's pretty cheap; a kilo will last a long time at the

Isidori dose of 2400 mg. per day; I did the math wrong the last time I tried it,

but assuming I'll be taking 3 grams twice daily, a jar at $65 with shipping will

last 166 days.

all good,

Duncan

> > Yes, I'm already taking advantage of SomaLife's price reduction. BUT,

> > it's still +/-$80.00 door-to-door. An Arginine Pyroglutamate & Lysine

> > mix (pharmaceutical grade) is about 1/4 the cost. That's a huge saving.

> > I'll be going to the new blend next month. I have it on good authority

> > that it will demonstrate the same benefits.

>

> Yes, but as Duncan has pointed out, this is *not* the same thing and is

> *not* going to provide the same benefits...

>

[Guest guest]

Was there a major price reduction? currently at $69.99.

I remember around $75 for the Youth and a bit more for the Sport.

Anne, just curious are you taking it on an empty stomach at night or in the

morning?

thanks

elaine

> > > Thank you for the info on an alternative to SomaLife. The cost savings

> > > will be hugely appreciated. Thank you!

> >

> > You are aware that SomaLife just had a pretty large price drop, correct?

> >

> > You might want to re-compare based on the latest pricing.

> >

>

> Hi Tanstaaf1,

>

> Yes, I'm already taking advantage of SomaLife's price reduction. BUT, it's

still +/-$80.00 door-to-door. An Arginine Pyroglutamate & Lysine mix

(pharmaceutical grade) is about 1/4 the cost. That's a huge saving. I'll be

going to the new blend next month. I have it on good authority that it will

demonstrate the same benefits.

>

> Love and Laughter,

> Anne

>

[Guest guest]

, I am a good responder to the amino acids approach so I'll probably

notice a difference in less than three months. I've already made considerable

gains using Power Maker II and SomaLife gHP over the years though so I might see

diminishing returns. Anticipating that, I alternate on and off for 8-10 months

at a time just to " top up " my glandular and organ repair and recover from any

accumulating damage. My wife Jo got results from a similar LEF daytime GH

support plus added l-lysine in less than 3 months. Doctors providing SomaLife's

scientific advisory say practically everyone notices major gains in six months,

it works in 95% of cases, and many people start noticing gains in three months.

all good,

Duncan

> > Anne and I are following the original Isidori research that eventually

> > spawned SomaLife gHP and the other HGH-releasing amino acid blends.

> > Isidori's research used arginine pyroglutamate and l-lysine, which might

> > be less effective than a fully-optimised blend like SomaLife, but

> > research did get a 500%-700% HGH increase with it and it's pretty cheap;

> > a kilo will last a long time at the Isidori dose of 2400 mg. per day; I

> > did the math wrong the last time I tried it, but assuming I'll be taking

> > 3 grams twice daily, a jar at $65 with shipping will last 166 days.

>

> Ok, interesting... how long before you think you'll know for sure how

> well it is working?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Elaine,

The current major price reduction is $69.99. No other reductions that I know

of. I do take it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning.

Love and Laughter,

Anne

>

> Was there a major price reduction? currently at $69.99.

> I remember around $75 for the Youth and a bit more for the Sport.

> Anne, just curious are you taking it on an empty stomach at night or in the

morning?

>

>

> thanks

> elaine

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan, would you recommend L-Arginine Pyroglutamate & Lysine Powder over

SomaLife gHP for everyone? Or just in some instances? I can't seem to get

the cash together to buy 6 months of SomaLife gHP.

Alobar

On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> L-arginine and l-lysine alone or together did not increase HGH very much in

> the research and l-arginine competes for uptake with l-lysine. Because

> arginine pyroglutamate does not compete for the same pathway lysine is

> complementary and synergistic with it; 1:1 1200 mg of each was used in the

> Isidori study.

>

> I compared arginine pyroglutamate to arginine alpha-ketoglutarate and it

> seems the ketoglutarate follows the lysine metabolic pathway so may be of

> less benefit with lysine.

>

> So, arginine pyroglutamate and l-lysine 1:1 at 1200 mg each (or higher

> is the substantiated formula. If you are considering a bulk buy to reduce

> cost, here's one that's within dollars of the next product and the 1:1

> formula to match the Isidori study.

>

>

>

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-Arginine-Pyroglutamate-Lysine-Powder-1000-Grams-/33052\

2759261

>

>

> I'll probably buy mine from a different dealer but it will be the same

> formula, instead of Life Extension's arginine ketoglutarate/ornithine

> ketoglutarate I bought last time.

>

> LEFs seems to be " working " on Jo's hot flashes, which have reduced in

> frequency in three months from four during the night and three daily to none

> at all most days, even with a potentially flooded lysine metabolism pathway

> due to adding LEF l-lysine to the LEF formula. Other than anti-aging she's

> not treating perimenopausal symptoms. I think we've anti-aged her again in

> this round

>

> So don't rule out the LEF formula but the bulk

> Arginine-Pyroglutamate-Lysine buy is pretty inexpensive. You'd mix a tsp in

> a glass of 5-alive, lemon or orange juice, and I've learned you can benefit

> by doing it up to 4 times daily. I'd been suggesting it would work in theory

> but it appears to be substantiated.

>

>

>

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-Arginine-Pyroglutamate-Lysine-Powder-1000-Grams-/33052\

2759261

>

> All good,

>

> Duncan Crow One of Curezone.com's Best Health Sites

> http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow

>

[Guest guest]

SomaLife gHP has been optimised while the basic blend has not but the much lower

cost of the blend makes it of interest. I intend to take more and do it twice

daily instead of just once, 3 grams and up to a rounded tsp or 4 grams per dose.

It's just an experiment to see how useful I think it is. It certainly should

work; Durk and Sandy's Power Maker II also worked for me so I'm sure the Isidori

study's arginine pyroglutamate and l-lysine will work too. The important thing

is it's not l-arginine and l-lysine that is widely quoted that makes the Isidori

blend useful but arginine pyroglutamate and l-lysine.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan, would you recommend L-Arginine Pyroglutamate & Lysine Powder over

> SomaLife gHP for everyone? Or just in some instances? I can't seem to get

> the cash together to buy 6 months of SomaLife gHP.

>

> Alobar

[Guest guest]

how does Soma life GHP with a product called hgh activator by nature

cast?

Thank you

ajd

[Guest guest]

HGH Activator contains L-arginine, not arginine pyroglutamate that was used in

the Isidori study, and later studies found no repeatable effect at the same dose

using l-arginine and l-lysine in combination. HGH Activator also contains

colostrum, which is probably it's real strength, and similar amino acids, but

the formula is a long way from optimized. New Zealand 6 hour colostrum is cheap

at bulkcolostrum.com

all good,

Duncan

>

> how does Soma life GHP with a product called hgh activator by nature

cast?

>

> Thank you

> ajd

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the response, Anne.

Can anyone comment on why Somalife recommends taking their product in the

morning only for women and not men? I am very curious.

I would think before bed is best for either sex.

My own experience (not with Somalife but with HGH releasers) is that I felt

alert when taking in the morning, but overall experienced a more noticeable

effect taking them before sleep.

thanks

elaine

> >

> > Was there a major price reduction? currently at $69.99.

> > I remember around $75 for the Youth and a bit more for the Sport.

> > Anne, just curious are you taking it on an empty stomach at night or in the

morning?

> >

> >

> > thanks

> > elaine

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Elaine, men produce their largest HGH spike about 30-90 minutes after falling

asleep, and have smaller spikes in the day than women do. A woman's nighttime

spike is not nearly as pronounced but her several daytime spikes are higher than

a man's. SomaLife ghP advisory said for years that women could be advantaged by

taking half in the AM and half in the PM, but they later changed to all of the

day's dose at once in the AM for women. Nonetheless the HGH trigger is

dose-related and you get a maximum trigger in both sexes with every

empty-stomach dose regardless of when you take it.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Thanks for the response, Anne.

>

> Can anyone comment on why Somalife recommends taking their product in the

morning only for women and not men? I am very curious.

> I would think before bed is best for either sex.

> My own experience (not with Somalife but with HGH releasers) is that I felt

alert when taking in the morning, but overall experienced a more noticeable

effect taking them before sleep.

>

>

> thanks

> elaine

>

[Guest guest]

Duncan,

I think the colostrum at bulk colostrum is from the USA and not New Zealand.

approximately $80 a pound for a bulk package seems pricey to me if its not from

New Zealand...

I use Symbiotics - I know not the highest quality but lower in price. They use

first two milkings within 0-6 hours after birth USDA cows, no hormones, no

antibiotics.

What website do you get the New Zealand whey from?

thanks

elaine

> >

> > how does Soma life GHP with a product called hgh activator by nature

cast?

> >

> > Thank you

> > ajd

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

How much colostrum would you recommend, Duncan? Once a day? Or several

times daiiy?

Alobar

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...> wrote:

> HGH Activator contains L-arginine, not arginine pyroglutamate that was used

> in the Isidori study, and later studies found no repeatable effect at the

> same dose using l-arginine and l-lysine in combination. HGH Activator also

> contains colostrum, which is probably it's real strength, and similar amino

> acids, but the formula is a long way from optimized. New Zealand 6 hour

> colostrum is cheap at bulkcolostrum.com

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

>

>

> >

> > how does Soma life GHP with a product called hgh activator by

> nature cast?

> >

> > Thank you

> > ajd

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Elaine, thanks for that; I'm getting more information about a NZ colostrum

source now. I had thought Donna Crow had some but that was years ago and

apparently she doesn't now. I want NZ colostrum because it's lower in

radioactivity than US fare, but Immune Tree colostrum is good stuff otherwise.

I don't buy whey online; I buy Kaizen Naturals NZ whey

http://www.kaizennaturals.com/ at my local London Drugs store. I recently got an

email from a new NZ distributor of undenatured whey but he hasn't contacted me

back with the protein profile so we don't know what it is exactly at this point.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan,

>

> I think the colostrum at bulk colostrum is from the USA and not New Zealand.

approximately $80 a pound for a bulk package seems pricey to me if its not from

New Zealand...

> I use Symbiotics - I know not the highest quality but lower in price. They

use first two milkings within 0-6 hours after birth USDA cows, no hormones, no

antibiotics.

>

> What website do you get the New Zealand whey from?

>

>

> thanks

> elaine

>

[Guest guest]

Alobar, a level tablespoon would be a useful maintenance amount according to

Donna who sells it. She went on to say that body builders often use 6-8 tbsp

daily. I was using 2 rounded tbsp, around 4 tbsp I guess. You can use it as many

times daily as you could benefit from an HGH pulse, probably at least three plus

your regular workout, which also releases HGH.

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > how does Soma life GHP with a product called hgh activator by

> > nature cast?

> > >

> > > Thank you

> > > ajd

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the response, Duncan.

Very interesting about the differences in spikes between the sexes.

I will have to research on this but do you have an inkling why women are setup

to spike throughout the day instead of mostly at night. Or if you have a web

link that details more on this that would be appreciated.

And if one is eating poorly throughout the day wouldn't that kill those spikes?

If I were to take amino acids upon rising how long do you think I would have to

wait before having whey or colostrum. I like to take all 3 on an empty stomach

with only water.

Do you think taking colostrum and whey together poses a problem.

Right now I am waiting 20 minutes or so between taking whey and colostrum in the

morning - no intake of amino acids in the morning at this time.

My problem at night is making sure I haven't eaten 3 hours before bed and when I

take the amino acids in powder form instead of pills (I guess it hits my system

faster) I become more alert and cannot fall asleep. I am going to try melatonin

and when I start to feel drowsy take the amino acid mix -- that is if I can keep

myself from eating too close to bedtime.

thanks

elaine

> >

> > Thanks for the response, Anne.

> >

> > Can anyone comment on why Somalife recommends taking their product in the

morning only for women and not men? I am very curious.

> > I would think before bed is best for either sex.

> > My own experience (not with Somalife but with HGH releasers) is that I felt

alert when taking in the morning, but overall experienced a more noticeable

effect taking them before sleep.

> >

> >

> > thanks

> > elaine

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oops it's not an HGH pulse when you use colostrum of course, it's IGF-1

all good,

Duncan

>

> Alobar, a level tablespoon would be a useful maintenance amount according to

Donna who sells it. She went on to say that body builders often use 6-8 tbsp

daily. I was using 2 rounded tbsp, around 4 tbsp I guess. You can use it as many

times daily as you could benefit from an HGH pulse, probably at least three plus

your regular workout, which also releases HGH.

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry no I don't have details of the difference in HGH release between men and

women close at hand. Carbohydrate meals increase insulin and somatostatin, which

stops the HGH release. This is the most likely reason for obesity in children

and young adults, who should have faster metabolisms and higher HGH, but they

suppress it several times a day with carbs.

The amino acids spike your HGH release 30 minutes after taking them on an empty

stomach. HGH remains high for about 90 minutes but I think you can take regular

food about 40 minutes after the amino acids because the release has been done.

If you take colostrum, which gives IGF-1, you may not see the full effect of the

amino acids if taken simultaneously because HGH release is also naturally

suppressed when levels approach maximal.

The best mileage, conforming to your desire to take them with water, would be

to take the amino acids on an empty stomach in the AM with water, or an acidic

juice to help absorb them, then take the colostrum and whey 90 minutes later so

it maintains rather than competes with the just-released HGH/IGF-1. You also can

take colostrum and whey with food, the point being that IGF-1 adequacy will be

dose-related so take " enough " , whatever that is. Like I said, Donna Crow of

bulkcolostrum.com points out that body builders use 6-8 tbsp of colostrum but

people use 1 tbsp for maintenance too.

Somalife advisory says that if you have trouble with taking amino acids at

night, to take them all in the morning. Timing against meals is important too; I

usually eat something before bed so I take my HGH secretagogue in the AM. When

I'm using colostrum and whey I take them together at around 11AM. A couple of

tbsp or so of colostrum would contain adequate glutathione precursors I think

that you could suspend the whey, but they whey is very good for lean mass

maintenance as well so you wouldn't suspend it if the object is a lean

growth/fat loss trend.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Thanks for the response, Duncan.

> Very interesting about the differences in spikes between the sexes.

> I will have to research on this but do you have an inkling why women are setup

to spike throughout the day instead of mostly at night. Or if you have a web

link that details more on this that would be appreciated.

> And if one is eating poorly throughout the day wouldn't that kill those

spikes?

>

> If I were to take amino acids upon rising how long do you think I would have

to wait before having whey or colostrum. I like to take all 3 on an empty

stomach with only water.

> Do you think taking colostrum and whey together poses a problem.

> Right now I am waiting 20 minutes or so between taking whey and colostrum in

the morning - no intake of amino acids in the morning at this time.

> My problem at night is making sure I haven't eaten 3 hours before bed and when

I take the amino acids in powder form instead of pills (I guess it hits my

system faster) I become more alert and cannot fall asleep. I am going to try

melatonin and when I start to feel drowsy take the amino acid mix -- that is if

I can keep myself from eating too close to bedtime.

>

>

> thanks

> elaine

>