any ideas

[Guest guest]

Hi Kirstie - I think the most inexpensive packaging would probably be

cello bags tied with a pretty ribbon or raffia. I know Nashville Wraps

has these but they have a minimum order (or a charge of $5) but you can

also find them at Majestic Mt. Sage, www.thesage.com, or Papermart,

www.papermart.com. I'm sure there are lots of other places that carry

them on the web, as well as locally at s. Have fun!

Katy

Kirstie wrote:

> Greetings!

> This December, our 4-H group will be doing a craft workshop. We are

> making some bath products and I was hoping you might be able to help

> me with some packaging ideas.

> The items we plan to make are soap petals, bath bombs, bath teas, milk

> bath and bath salts. The idea is for the kids to come to the workshop

> and be able to take home something to give as a holiday gift.

> Our biggest criteria is it has to be a fairly inexpensive packaging

> idea! I have seen some differnet sites that carry plastic tubes, jars

> etc... Any ideas are welcomed!!

> Thanks in advance!

> Kirstie

>

>

[Guest guest]

You can get cello bags at s or other craft stores in the

candy making section! Ad a bit of ribbon and you are on your way!

>

> Greetings!

> This December, our 4-H group will be doing a craft workshop. We

are

> making some bath products and I was hoping you might be able to

help

> me with some packaging ideas.

> The items we plan to make are soap petals, bath bombs, bath teas,

milk

> bath and bath salts. The idea is for the kids to come to the

workshop

> and be able to take home something to give as a holiday gift.

> Our biggest criteria is it has to be a fairly inexpensive

packaging

> idea! I have seen some differnet sites that carry plastic tubes,

jars

> etc... Any ideas are welcomed!!

> Thanks in advance!

> Kirstie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carol and Katy...

I think the bags sound the most accessible too!

Kirstie

> >

> > Greetings!

> > This December, our 4-H group will be doing a craft workshop. We

> are

> > making some bath products and I was hoping you might be able to

> help

> > me with some packaging ideas.

> > The items we plan to make are soap petals, bath bombs, bath

teas,

> milk

> > bath and bath salts. The idea is for the kids to come to the

> workshop

> > and be able to take home something to give as a holiday gift.

> > Our biggest criteria is it has to be a fairly inexpensive

> packaging

> > idea! I have seen some differnet sites that carry plastic tubes,

> jars

> > etc... Any ideas are welcomed!!

> > Thanks in advance!

> > Kirstie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lizzie

From my reading of the situation, with the symptoms you mention, this

does appear it could be your adrenals. Perhaps when you increased your

L-thyroxine you should have also increased your NAE. Many people take up

to 6 tablets of NAE a day, and you can afford to increase yours to see

if this helps. Alternatively, you may need something stronger such as

Isocort or even HC. I doubt Dr B will agree with this, but then, NHS

doctors only recognise 's disease and would not even accept that

NAE would help in supporting your adrenals. You can but try.

Luv - Sheila

>

> I wonder if anyone has had similar symptoms to the ones I am

> expeiencing at the moment. I am now almost six weeks into an increase

> of my T4 from 100 to 125mcg and also take T3 20 which has not been

> increased recently. I feel as though I have beeen improving albeit

> very slowly. I dont have the leg cramps every day and I am now

> starting to lose weight very slowly. This leads me to believe that I

> must be converting ok. However, at times I feel as though I am shaking

> but I am not, if I hold my hands out they are still, I feel it

> particularly in my stomach

[Guest guest]

However, at times I feel as though I am shaking

> but I am not, if I hold my hands out they are still, I feel it

> particularly in my stomach.

Hi Lizzie.

I don't have any advice for you, but I have also been experiencing

exactly the same thing, and also feeling like my heart is pounding

really fast and hard - except when I take my pulse it is normal...

I'll be watching the advice on your post with eagle eyes!!

Leah x

[Guest guest]

Hi Lizzie

At the point where you cross over from being hypothyroid to euthyroid

and then potentially to hyperthyroid, the magnesium and potassium

levels need to be monitored.

From being hypermagnesemic (high magnesium) on a serum sample, it's

possible that you might then become hypomagnesemic (low magnesium).

The potassium tends to follow this routine with the hypoxia

accompanying hypothyroidism, but may have a hiccup ( sometimes

literally) if the extracellular magnesium remains too low ~ it

requires magnesium to fire up the ATPase enzyme that transports

potassium back into the cells.

Recall that the cells work best with high potassiumm content and low

sodium content, the opposite of the situation outside the cells (in

the extracellular fluid).

The combination of these two factors leads to the electrical 'driving

force' that keeps the cells alive (ie ~ high potassium inside and low

potassium outside the cells).

[Note] That to have evolved in sea water, life-forms needed to create

a 'different' environment from that of the sea itself ~ where, as you

know, the sodium concentration greatly exceeds the potassium

concentration.....this is where the basic 'laws of physics and

chemistry' apply.

The cell walls of eukaryotic life-forms keep this electrical

difference (of potential) in place to permit the high energy

processes necessary to maintain all the 'internal' systems of the

cell.

When the electrolytes inside the cells (Mg/K/Na/Ca/Cl/SO4/PO4)

become 'unbalanced' and especially during hypoxia associated with

hypothyroidism, the energy output drops......

you feel very lethargic.....

recovery from hypothyroidism needs to avoid this 'overshoot', where

the extracellular magnesium level drops too quickly causing eventual

chaos in the 'electrical systems' of the cells and then 'wiring

defects' in the nervous system.

Rt Hon Tony Blair PC, in advocating ( at every opportunity ) five

portions of fruit and vegetables a day, has recommended the remedy

for both his own cardiac arrhythmia, and likewise, that of many

others, where potassium and magnesium are needed on a daily basis to

replace that which is 'normally lost' ( unless kidney complaints

prevent it ).

A diet containing too much bread and neglecting the fruit and

vegetables will eventually cause blood pressure and other problems

where the daily loss of both magnesium and potassium isn't

compensated by that same diet.

....and one might question whether the diet pre-empts ( in other

ways ) the thyroid condition, by causing electrical imbalances in the

critical (thyroid?) organs?

any responses 'Welcome' ~ ?

best wishes

Bob

> Hi Everyone

> I wonder if anyone has had similar symptoms to the ones I am

> expeiencing at the moment.I am now almost six weeks into an increase

[Guest guest]

Sometimes, all the tests in the world will tell you that everything is normal, and sometimes, they just are not. I would guess that both of you are suffering with low adrenal reserve, and the shivering feeling is a number one symptom. Leah, I am not sure what to suggest to you regarding taking HC to 'stress dose' at all. All I know about stress dosing is that when you have been either prescribed or recommended HC by a medical practitioner that they advocate increasing the dose when you are going through periods of stress. Can you telephone Dr P and ask his recommendations regarding this and let us know his thoughts?

I personally feel you should not be using hydrocortisone as a 'quick fix', and certainly not without supervision. If you need HC then you need to go on a proper course, starting at very low physiological doses only and increasing slowly.

Learn more about the complexities of the adrenals here http://tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

luv - Sheila

However, at times I feel as though I am shaking> but I am not, if I hold my hands out they are still, I feel it> particularly in my stomach.Hi Lizzie.I don't have any advice for you, but I have also been experiencing exactly the same thing, and also feeling like my heart is pounding really fast and hard - except when I take my pulse it is normal...I'll be watching the advice on your post with eagle eyes!!Leah x

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1698 - Release Date: 29/09/2008 19:25

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

I would love to call Dr P and get some of his advice, but unfortunately

I am not a patient of his :0(

I have tried to get an appointment locally, but as I live right down in

the SW near Cornwall, the only one remotely near me is the Totnes one

and it is fully booked with a waiting list!

I need to get up to his Crawley clinic, but it is just about 5 hours to

Gtawick for me, and would need an overnight stay probably. I know this

doesn't sound like a big deal, but with a toddler and work and I am off

to USA for work in less than 3 weeks, it becomes a big deal... I'm

going to have a think about whether I should go for it, as things are

much better than before, but I am unable to get past this final hump...

I know what you mean about messing around with meds - I just wish the

NHS were better at treating us, because the last thing I want to be

doing is self medicating, but I feel I have no choice...

Leah x

All I know about stress dosing is that when you have been either

prescribed or recommended HC by a medical practitioner that they

advocate increasing the dose when you are going through periods of

stress. Can you telephone Dr P and ask his recommendations regarding

this and let us know his thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

HI

The problem is, first, they don't do all the tests in the world, and

second, all the tests in the world are insufficient to really,

really know what is what.

For example, the greater thyroid system from the hypothalamus via

the thyroid to the symptom producing cells involves five operations,

four hormones, plus as many clearance operations excrete old

hormones and a variety of chemicals and enzymes. For this

complexity, it is claimed, only three tests are needed. Oh really,

give me a break.

The test that would really be useful in the greater thyroid realm

would be one that indicates the usage of the T3 by the cells' nuclei.

Until then, we must simply object to a testing methodology that

seems to be designed for the selling of levothyroxine sodium and the

boycott of all T3 containing hormones in lieu of properly caring for

the stricken.

Have a better day,

>

> Sometimes, all the tests in the world will tell you that

everything is normal, and sometimes, they just are not. I would

guess that both of you are suffering with low adrenal reserve, and

the shivering feeling is a number one symptom. Leah, I am not sure

what to suggest to you regarding taking HC to 'stress dose' at all.

All I know about stress dosing is that when you have been either

prescribed or recommended HC by a medical practitioner that they

advocate increasing the dose when you are going through periods of

stress. Can you telephone Dr P and ask his recommendations regarding

this and let us know his thoughts?

>

> I personally feel you should not be using hydrocortisone as

a 'quick fix', and certainly not without supervision. If you need HC

then you need to go on a proper course, starting at very low

physiological doses only and increasing slowly.

>

> Learn more about the complexities of the adrenals here

http://tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

>

> luv - Sheila

>

>

> However, at times I feel as though I am shaking

> > but I am not, if I hold my hands out they are still, I feel it

> > particularly in my stomach.

>

> Hi Lizzie.

>

> I don't have any advice for you, but I have also been

experiencing

> exactly the same thing, and also feeling like my heart is

pounding

> really fast and hard - except when I take my pulse it is

normal...

>

> I'll be watching the advice on your post with eagle eyes!!

>

> Leah x

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1698 - Release Date:

29/09/2008 19:25

>

[Guest guest]

I have responded too your message privately Leah.

Luv - Sheila

Hi SheilaI would love to call Dr P and get some of his advice, but unfortunately I am not a patient of his :0(

..

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1698 - Release Date: 29/09/2008 19:25

[Guest guest]

Hiya

I am wondering if those av. temps are actually stable here and Lead

what about you on this front?

I know the variable is .2 when working in fahrenheit as I do and

doesn't that equate to .1 in C? May I am wrong here. I'll just go

find my thermo to check........ hang on

I think the last one breaks the pattern of stable here doesn't it?

And you are using a reliable thermo Lizzie?

Mo

the

> last 10 days, my temps are pretty stable 37.1, 37.0, 36.9, 37.0

36.8.

> I checked my blood pressure lying and standing and today it went up

by

> only 4 points so after a rest I checked it again and it dropped 1

> point. This is unusual for me lately as it had been increasing by at

> least 10 points. I am wondering if these wobbly weird feelings are

> adrenal related and if it will settle whenn I get used to this

> increased dose or do I need to take more NAE to get me through the

> next week? or is it just me going mad. Any advise graefully

received.

>

> Love from frustrated Lizzie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi MO

I am using a digital thermometer and when I have converted 36.8 to

farenheit it is 98.2 and 37.1 is 98.78 so it looks as though there is

a bigger variation than I should have. I have increased my NAE to 5

but wonder if maybe I should increase further to six. Oh I don't know

what to do, I thought I was improving bit these wobbly feelings are

horrible. the funny thing is they come and go it's not constant.

Love Lizzie

> I think the last one breaks the pattern of stable here doesn't it?

> And you are using a reliable thermo Lizzie?

>

> Mo

>

>

> the

> > last 10 days, my temps are pretty stable 37.1, 37.0, 36.9, 37.0

>

> >

> > Love from frustrated Lizzie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I would lose the digital Lizzie so you can get a clearer idea of where you are with this as it is looking, on the face of it, like your adrenals are not happy, wouldn't you agree?

What was your ASI like in the first place?

Mo

Find out how online threats target you - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/security ________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo

Sorry to appear ignorant but what is an adrenal ASI?

I haven't had one done, the only test for adrenals was a cortisol

which my consultant said was normal! However I started to treat my

adrenals in February as a lot of my symptoms looked like they were

adrenal. I have taken 4 NAE daily sometimes three as I often forget

the lunch time one. I think I will increase to 6 and see how i get on.

Love Lizzie

> I would lose the digital Lizzie so you can get a clearer idea of

where you are with this as it is looking, on the face of it, like your

adrenals are not happy, wouldn't you agree?

>

[Guest guest]

The ASI stands adrenal stress index. It is the 24-hour saliva test which you probably have heard mention of Lizzie.

This is the only accurate test available for people whose adrenal stress is anywhere along the continuum between very high (Cushings disease) and very low cortisol (s Disease).

A blood test for adrenals will only show up if you are on either end of this spectrum but not if you are anywhere in between. So really you need to have this test before treating the adrenals. And I believe you have to come off any adrenal support before doing so. A week I think for glandulars though I am sure someone else with more certainty will chip in here re this.

You could increase the NAE and I would think you would be better off knowing what you are dealing with as, depending on the results, the NAE may not be the right kind of support for you. The only way to see what is going on is to come off the glandulars and get tested.

There should be info in the files section on how to do this. Lab 21 will send you out the necessary if you choose to go ahead.

Good luck.

Mo

.. Find out how online threats target you - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/security ________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

However, at times I feel as though I am shaking......

Hi Lizzie. For what it's worth me too.

Pen

[Guest guest]

How much variation should there be once the adrenals are properly

supported? I would be delighted to have such good readings as below

because mine currently vary between 35.5 and 36.5 C. :-(

Miriam

> > the last 10 days, my temps are pretty stable 37.1, 37.0, 36.9, 37.0

[Guest guest]

Hi Lizzie

You cannot get the 24 hour Adrenal Stress Index 9ASI) done through the

NHS, the test they did on you would be to see whether you were

suffering with 's disease, which of course, you are not. The

hospital test would have told everybody that you were 'normal'. but

that test only covers the extremes of cortisol output. You need to get

the 24 hour salivary adrenal test done where you spit into a test tube

at four times during the day. Once when you wake and then every four

hours for the next two and then the last test when you go to bed - best

around midnight. This tests to see what your cortisol and DHEA are

doing at those times and will tell whether you are suffering with low

adrenal reserve or not. The test is expensive, but it is worth every

penny. You can find details in our FILES of this forum website, scroll

down to NPTech Services and there you will see all the tests they do

and the prices they charge. I feel more than ever that your problems

are related to your adrenals, and once treated, you will find the

thyroid hormone replacement actually works.

If you go to our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk and click

on 'Hypothyroidism' and then on the drop down Menu, click

on 'Associated Conditions' - read these and you will see whether any of

your problems could be because you are suffering from one of these. Any

of these stop your thyroid hormone replacement from being absorbed so

you do not benefit from the tablets whatsoever.

Luv - Sheila

>

> Hi Mo

>

> Sorry to appear ignorant but what is an adrenal ASI?

> I haven't had one done, the only test for adrenals was a cortisol

> which my consultant said was normal! However I started to treat my

> adrenals in February as a lot of my symptoms looked like they were

> adrenal. I have taken 4 NAE daily sometimes three as I often forget

> the lunch time one. I think I will increase to 6 and see how i get on.

>

> Love Lizzie

> > I would lose the digital Lizzie so you can get a clearer idea of

> where you are with this as it is looking, on the face of it, like your

> adrenals are not happy, wouldn't you agree?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pen and Lizzie,

..... I bet that both of you are suffering from low adrenal reserve and need to get this sorted as soon as possible.

Luv - Sheila

_______________

However, at times I feel as though I am shaking......Hi Lizzie. For what it's worth me too.Pen

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila and Mo

Well I've done it! I've ordered the 24 hr salivary test kit from Lab

21.I am so fed up of never feeling right. I really did think I was

getting there until a few days ago but these shaking feelings are

downright horrible. What I can't understand though is the fact that I

never have any problems sleeping or waking up. I take all my thyroid

meds at night and I'm straight off to sleep within a few minutes. I

always felt that because of this I did not have any real issues with

my adrenals. I also though that my temperatures were fairly stable

when averaged out but it seems not. I am wondering whether the NAE has

been doing me any good whatsoever? I have been taking it since

February but am still here with more or less the same problems I

started with 12 months ago. If my adrenal profile comes back poor will

I be able to buy Isocort online? I am also worried about doing this

behind Dr B's back as he does not believe adrenals are connected to my

problems. What if it all goes wrong I will have to come clean about

what I am doing? I was really hoping that by taking 6 NAE it might

have done the trick but how long do I wait to see if this is the case.

Anyhow I don't pay for the ASI test until I send it to the lab so that

gives me some breathing space I suppose.

Love to you all and thankyou so much for your support it really does

mean a lot to me.

Lizzie

[Guest guest]

Hi Lizzie

I have written to you privately regarding this. Hope things work out, and please, don't worry right now. Your test results may show your adrenals are fine (though I personally doubt it) and if that is the case, then we need to look elsewhere. I wouldn't worry about what Dr B thinks. These endocrinologists only accept that the NHS test is to find out if you have 's Disease, and they do not recognise any other shades of grey between normal and severely compromised adrenals. If he isn't prepared to look after you, then there is no option other than you must look after yourself.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila and MoWell I've done it! I've ordered the 24 hr salivary test kit from Lab21.I am so fed up of never feeling right. I really did think I wasgetting there until a few days ago but these shaking feelings aredownright horrible. What I can't understand though is the fact that INever have any problems sleeping or waking up. I take all my thyroidmeds at night and I'm straight off to sleep within a few minutes. Ialways felt that because of this I did not have any real issues withmy adrenals. I also though that my temperatures were fairly stablewhen averaged out but it seems not. I am wondering whether the NAE hasbeen doing me any good whatsoever? I have been taking it sinceFebruary but am still here with more or less the same problems Istarted with 12 months ago. If my adrenal profile comes back poor willI be able to buy Isocort online? I am also worried about doing thisbehind Dr B's back as he does not believe adrenals are connected to myproblems. What if it all goes wrong I will have to come clean aboutwhat I am doing? I was really hoping that by taking 6 NAE it mighthave done the trick but how long do I wait to see if this is the case.Anyhow I don't pay for the ASI test until I send it to the lab so thatgives me some breathing space I suppose.Love to you all and thankyou so much for your support it really doesmean a lot to me.Lizzie

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

Thank you for your lovely private reply it made me cry. I don't know

where I would be without your support.

Do I have to stop the NAE before I do the ASI test?

Love Lizzie

> I have written to you privately regarding this. Hope things

work out, and please, don't worry right now.

[Guest guest]

Ok so you are on the road to a better place because the new information

is bound to be helpful in ascertaining just what areas need support.

If the ASI comes back fine, then wonderful. You can get on the track of

what else is causing you problems.

If it is not a healthy result, then you are well placed to put things

right.

Isocort you can get online yes so no problem there.

You don't have to do anything behind anyone's back if you don't want to

Lizzie. It is up to you, you are the patient and you are running the

show. It is your body after all.

And you can keep the information to yourself as well if you want to.

Entirely up to you. My GP has no idea I have been taking h.c for over

three years. He will find out soon enough though as I will be revealing

all to the consultant at the M.E./CFS Clinic later this month. Cat and

pigeons LOL

Mo

[Guest guest]

Hi Leah,

Adrenal- 'a peculiar internal shivering'? is a symptoms of low adrenals do the questionnaire in the files.

> thyroid treatment > From: leah.leaves@...> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:51:33 +0000> Subject: Re: Any Ideas> > However, at times I feel as though I am shaking> > but I am not, if I hold my hands out they are still, I feel it> > particularly in my stomach.> > Hi Lizzie.> > I don't have any advice for you, but I have also been experiencing > exactly the same thing, and also feeling like my heart is pounding > really fast and hard - except when I take my pulse it is normal...> > I'll be watching the advice on your post with eagle eyes!!> > Leah x> > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

I also had this internal shaking however I only noticed it just as I

was waking up. It WAS a peculiar feeling. Now that I know it was

adrenal, it makes sense and now I am addressing the adrenals and have

not noticed it. It is amazing what doctors do not know. I cannot

tell you how many times I brought this up to several doctors and NO

ONE OF THEM brought up adrenals....What a travisty.

Venizia

>

>

> Hi Leah,

> Adrenal- 'a peculiar internal shivering'? is a symptoms

of low adrenals do the questionnaire in the files.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354027/direct/01/

>