Re: OT - Tooth decay options - toothpaste choices

February 19, 2011

I rarely use toothpaste because it's not as " clean " as brushing with mouthwash.

Some mouthwash has germ killers in it. I just finished a bottle of Lavoris with

peroxide, which kills germs and shows plenty of peroxide reaction to prove your

mouth is being freshened at a microscopic level.

This next Lavoris flavour I got has sorbitol, which I guessed might kill germs,

but turns out when I got it home that it probably doesn't.

Switching next to a mouthwash with xylitol in it as an alternative to the

peroxide one. Xylitol mouthwashes are easy to find and xylitol is reknowned for

killing mouth germs.

Xylitol mouthwash is a real good germ killer and you can swish with it like you

would oil. It's from $4 a pint, and you don't need that much to do your mouth up

fresh. The best advice I have is to brush with some kind of mechanical

toothbrush and floss no matter what else you do. I own both kinds of SpinBrush.

all good,

Duncan

>> As for toothpaste, I have not found anything natural yet that comes in a

paste

> that will kill bacteria in my mouth. (I want to note here that I just don't

> believe those " baking soda & peroxide " claims on some toothpaste tubes. Plus I

> do not use fluoride and stay clear of ingredients I can't pronounce.

>

> I've been using this method for years and I still have people ask me what

> toothpaste I use because my teeth are so white.

>

> No one needs those whitening strips!

>

February 19, 2011

Lyn, you'll probably love that peroxide or ozone in water with colloidal silver

is 1000 times as potent as either component is alone, and even treating sewage

effluent in several big cities. You get a higher kill rate from a very low

concentration, it will taste about like brushing with straight water, and there

is no equal for the combination because both components were about the best germ

killers anyway. I make ozone and colloidal silver pretty cheap and I have

peroxide but I buy Lavoris peroxide at Dollar Giant for $1.25/500ml.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi Duncan

>

> I am sure I have seen these that you suggest because I have always looked for

an

> alternative product that would allow me to give my regimen taste. But I am a

> tight wad, and a die-hard peroxide person, so nothing is as cheap as a gallon

of

> 35% peroxide or Basic H, which both are highly concentrated so you use just a

> drop or two in an 8 oz jar of water.

>

> If I can ever find these that you mention in the Dollar-type stores for less,

> maybe then I will get one to give me a chance to switch off.

>

> But I agree...

> All IS Good

> Lyn

>

February 20, 2011

Just wanted to recommend a Waterpik over floss. This way you can get all the

gums. I have noticed greater gum health since I started

> >

> > Hi Duncan

> >

> > I am sure I have seen these that you suggest because I have always looked

for an

> > alternative product that would allow me to give my regimen taste. But I am

a

> > tight wad, and a die-hard peroxide person, so nothing is as cheap as a

gallon of

> > 35% peroxide or Basic H, which both are highly concentrated so you use just

a

> > drop or two in an 8 oz jar of water.

> >

> > If I can ever find these that you mention in the Dollar-type stores for

less,

> > maybe then I will get one to give me a chance to switch off.

> >

> > But I agree...

> > All IS Good

> > Lyn

> >

>

February 21, 2011

My dentist recommended a Waterpik. I now use it instead of dental floss. You go

up by the gun line - both front and back. And in between the teeth. My numbers

when it comes to how far my gums have receded are actually improving and I have

less bleeding by my gums.

I use the most powerful setting but I worked my way up to it. Got it on amazon

>

> >>Just wanted to recommend a Waterpik over floss. This way you can get all the

> >>gums. I have noticed greater gum health since I started <<

>

> I have been wondering for a while whether I should look into a waterpik, but I

> was afraid it would become an unused purchase. It seems like it would be

awkward

> to use and I didn't know if I would get used to it, and I do not know anyone

who

> has one. Tell me how you use yours and what it does for your overall dental

> health.

>

> <<

>

February 21, 2011

Hi Diane:

And a water pic combined with colloidal silver and ozone water or

peroxide is even more effective in my experience.

Regards,

Jim

>Just wanted to recommend a Waterpik over floss. This way you can get

all the gums. I have noticed greater gum health since I started

>

> Lyn, you'll probably love that peroxide or ozone in water with

colloidal silver is 1000 times as potent as either component is alone,

and even treating sewage effluent in several big cities. You get a

higher kill rate from a very low concentration, it will taste about like

brushing with straight water, and there is no equal for the combination

because both components were about the best germ killers anyway. I make

ozone and colloidal silver pretty cheap and I have peroxide but I buy

Lavoris peroxide at Dollar Giant for $1.25/500ml.

>

> all good,

>

> Duncan

February 21, 2011

I guess that's pretty much what I was relaying to Bruce just now. When the teeth

mechanically hold fast a fiber, a waterpik and swishing don't get it out.

Allowing the junk to pile up in there because you've retarded it's rotting

process with oil doesn't make sense. Even if people swish they should floss as

well. Brushing does the polishing that is otherwise not obtained by swishing

either.

My wife appreciates it.

all good,

Duncan

>

> I do not have space between my teeth so the way I think is that I could not

skip

> flossing. I don't suppose the flow of water from a Waterpik is strong enough

to

> replace flossing between tight teeth.

February 22, 2011

Jim's right, colloidal silver and peroxide in a waterpik kills dozens of

viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites that the other tooth decay options

including oil swishing can't touch. The two are 1000 times as effective together

than either is alone. I'm just now adding CS to my peroxide mouthwash (thanks

Jim for the idea}

I'm glad we compared a water pik to oil swishing. I'm looking for a waterpik

this month; never owned one and they've been out for about 30 years.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Hi Diane:

>

> And a water pic combined with colloidal silver and ozone water or

> peroxide is even more effective in my experience.

>

> Regards,

> Jim

>

> >Just wanted to recommend a Waterpik over floss. This way you can get

> all the gums. I have noticed greater gum health since I started

>

February 22, 2011

>

> I'm looking for one now, too. But Amazon's bad reviews on the

> Ultra are really bad.

I looked at reviews last year, and I ended up not buying one at all. I recall

the reviews for the cordless waterpiks being especially poor.

> I don't look so much at good reviews. I look at the bad ones to

> see how bad they are and how many there are.

Same here.

February 22, 2011

I've been using waterpiks for quite sometime. I realized dental floss still

cleans better than the water pik even at highest settings specially in tight

areas.

>

> What brand and model pick do you have. I checked amazon for reviews and one

lady

> put three on over a few months and her review kept getting worse and worse.

The

> tips fall off easy because of the placement of the button, the tips are weak

and

> break in a couple months, the hose is too short and you have to lean over to

use

> it, the pressure is not near like her 30 year old Waterpik Brand waterpik and

> the reservoir is too small. Among other bad reviews.

>

> ________________________________

> From: Diane <dianetargovnik@...>

> Coconut Oil

> Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 10:32:24 AM

> Subject: Re: OT - Tooth decay options - toothpaste

> choices

>

> My dentist recommended a Waterpik. I now use it instead of dental floss. You

go

> up by the gun line - both front and back. And in between the teeth. My numbers

> when it comes to how far my gums have receded are actually improving and I

have

> less bleeding by my gums.

>

> I use the most powerful setting but I worked my way up to it. Got it on amazon

>

February 22, 2011

Hi and Lyn,

For what it's worth I'm going to tell you my story. When I was 15 years old it

was discovered that I had a severe case of pyorrhea. My doctor said he had never

seen a case this bad in someone so young. As I result I had to undergo an

operation to remove very large pockets of puss from my gums (sorry for the yuk

factor). I had developed this condition despite brushing and flossing. The

dentist had no answer for why this happened to me but it may have been

hereditary as both parents had to have all their teeth removed in their 30's.

They were otherwise healthy, had regular dental check-ups and performed regular

dental hygiene.

A few years after my operation I read about vitamin C and realized I was

probably deficient in it, despite eating plenty of fruits and veggies containing

it. Supplement of Vit high vit C helped, but I still continued to develop

pockets, suffered from bleeding gums when I flossed, had teeth that wiggled, and

eventually lost quite a few. Scaling and Root Planing only worked for so long. I

tried using a water pik when my dentist advised it but even that didn't help all

that much. And of course I rinsed and swished with peroxide. It wasn't until I

learned about oil pulling and began practicing it daily that my symptoms really

began to REVERSE. My remaining teeth are now tight as a drum and no bleeding

when flossing. And my breath is fresh at last. Dr. Fife (Bruce) is correct and

Duncan is just plain wrong. The oil DOES indeed pull disease causing viruses and

bacteria out of the gum and mouth tissues. I still brush and floss, of course,

but it was the Oil PULLING that did the trick. Btw, the toothpaste I use is made

of tea tree oil & neem which is also a good disinfectant so it makes a good

adjunct to the oil pulling. And it contains no fluoride:

http://tinyurl.com/4uvmtrl

Best,

Dee

> >

> > I'm looking for one now, too. But Amazon's bad reviews on the

> > Ultra are really bad.

>

> I looked at reviews last year, and I ended up not buying one at all. I recall

the reviews for the cordless waterpiks being especially poor.

>

> > I don't look so much at good reviews. I look at the bad ones to

> > see how bad they are and how many there are.

>

> Same here.

>

February 22, 2011

Hi Dee,

That is a spectacular success story. What oil do you use for the pulling and

how long to you pull? Do you do it first thing in the morning?

Thanks,

Pamela

> > >

> > > I'm looking for one now, too. But Amazon's bad reviews on the

> > > Ultra are really bad.

> >

> > I looked at reviews last year, and I ended up not buying one at all. I

recall the reviews for the cordless waterpiks being especially poor.

> >

> > > I don't look so much at good reviews. I look at the bad ones to

> > > see how bad they are and how many there are.

> >

> > Same here.

> >

>

February 22, 2011

>

> Dr. Fife (Bruce) is correct and Duncan is just plain wrong.

When I get tough bits of food tightly jammed between two teeth, which happens

every day with me, I reach for floss, not a tablespoon of oil to swish around

the mouth. When oil pulling became all the rage a couple years ago, I tried it,

and I didn't notice anything at all aside from the unpleasantness of having a

mouth full of oily saliva. The brute mechanical force of floss and an electric

toothbrush is the only thing that makes my teeth feel clean. I think the idea

that swishing oil in the mouth is better than flossing and brushing is nonsense.

February 22, 2011

Dee, your experience differs with several others who found flossing, brushing or

using a waterpik was still necessary to get their mouths clean.

Choosing oil swishing to replace rather than complement the other cleaning

approaches leaves a less clean mouth, so, adjuvant is still a better term for it

than calling it the primary dental therapy.

We're not buying the story, even after trying it out.

all good,

Duncan

> > >

> > > I'm looking for one now, too. But Amazon's bad reviews on the

> > > Ultra are really bad.

> >

> > I looked at reviews last year, and I ended up not buying one at all. I

recall the reviews for the cordless waterpiks being especially poor.

> >

> > > I don't look so much at good reviews. I look at the bad ones to

> > > see how bad they are and how many there are.

> >

> > Same here.

> >

>

February 22, 2011

>

I think the idea that swishing oil in the mouth is better than flossing and

brushing is nonsense.

>

I agree, . And calling it " pulling " is a big mistake when you have to

repeatedly correct the misled people by saying, as the author Bruce has, that

" oil pulling " doesn't really " pull " things from the body after all but only

swishes loose debris from the spaces between the teeth and gums. Repeatedly

correcting misleading terms is counterproductive compared to simply coining a

new term that is not misleading.

And, calling it proper dental care only elevates the comment to the point of

deception.

all good,

Duncan

February 22, 2011

Hi Pamela,

I usually alternate between sesame oil and coconut oil. The sesame oil is easier

to use in the winter because the coconut oil is so hard then. And yes, I do the

pulling first thing in the morning for 20 minutes. I set my little alarm to ring

and go about reading my emails and the time just flies by. No biggie at all. I

then spit out the oil and rinse my mouth out with a big glass of salt water,

then brush. I don't floss until after breakfast because there isn't anything

between my teeth before breakfast. I do occasionally forget to floss but that

hasn't seemed to do any harm. I also chew Xylitol gum after lunch and dinner

which usually relieves the need to brush then.

Dee

>

> Hi Dee,

>

> That is a spectacular success story. What oil do you use for the pulling and

how long to you pull? Do you do it first thing in the morning?

>

> Thanks,

> Pamela

February 22, 2011

If you read my reply to Pamela you will see that I don't use oil pulling as a

substitute for flossing and brushing. I use oil pulling only in the morning

before I have eaten anything so I am not using it for surface cleaning. What the

pulling does is remove any bacteria that may have developed overnight deep

inside the gums. I may not even need it as much anymore as I no longer have the

pockets and loose teeth I had for so many years. If you don't have such problems

you may not need it and brushing and flossing will suffice, but I will let Dr.

Fife speak to that.

Dee

> >

> > Dr. Fife (Bruce) is correct and Duncan is just plain wrong.

>

> When I get tough bits of food tightly jammed between two teeth, which happens

every day with me, I reach for floss, not a tablespoon of oil to swish around

the mouth. When oil pulling became all the rage a couple years ago, I tried it,

and I didn't notice anything at all aside from the unpleasantness of having a

mouth full of oily saliva. The brute mechanical force of floss and an electric

toothbrush is the only thing that makes my teeth feel clean. I think the idea

that swishing oil in the mouth is better than flossing and brushing is nonsense.

>

February 22, 2011

No Lyn, the peroxide didn't sting. I mixed one capful peroxide with one capful

of water and swished for a full minute. I did it every day after breakfast and

before bed.

Dee

>

> I'm wondering, though, did the peroxide sting too much in your mouth? I'm

> guessing that it did and that kept you from using it enough. It sounds to me

> like it would have because of the picture of the condition you painted for us.

> So I am thinking you were just grateful to find oil pulling to do the same

thing

> without the pain, so you could keep at it. Anyway, I'm glad you are better.

I

> know that had to be a horrible.

>

February 22, 2011

Duncan,

The oil pulling does NOT replace either brushing or flossing. It PRECEDES it;

therefore, the brushing and flossing are adjuvant to the pulling.

>> We're not buying the story, even after trying it out.

So I guess we're even then since I don't buy most of yours :-)

all good,

Dee

> > > >

> > > > I'm looking for one now, too. But Amazon's bad reviews on the

> > > > Ultra are really bad.

> > >

> > > I looked at reviews last year, and I ended up not buying one at all. I

recall the reviews for the cordless waterpiks being especially poor.

> > >

> > > > I don't look so much at good reviews. I look at the bad ones to

> > > > see how bad they are and how many there are.

> > >

> > > Same here.

> > >

> >

>

February 22, 2011

Hi Dee: I bought YOUR story but contradicted Bruce's, that oil swishing is the

primary rather than an adjuvant dental practice. Adjuvant in science means aids

or assists the endeavor or process, as opposed to accessory to or

chronologically following; that would deprecate its role as an aid.

Several of us including you affirmed the same need for three tools that assist

each other, brush, floss, waterpick (or oil swishing). Each of us may do it in a

different order but all three are adjuvant treatments for getting your mouth

clean. This makes them equal, aiding each other.

I'm glad we've established that people need to do more than swishing out their

mouths to call it dental care.

all good,

Duncan

> >

> > Choosing oil swishing to replace rather than complement the other cleaning

approaches leaves a less clean mouth, so, adjuvant is still a better term for it

than calling it the primary dental therapy.

> >

> > We're not buying the story, even after trying it out.

> >

> > all good,

> >

> > Duncan

> >

February 23, 2011

Duncan,

I know what the term adjuvant means. In my case oil PULLING is my primary

practice because it is the only one that reversed my gum situation where

brushing and flossing did not. In fact I developed the condition despite

brushing & flossing - and many others do as well, though not usually at such a

young age - therefore I consider these procedures to be adjuvant to the oil

PULLING. And you can call it " swishing " if you like but I don't believe it to

be the better description because the procedure is obviously PULLING out puss

that can develop deep inside the gums. Btw, this condition was not apparent

visually. My gums and teeth looked fine. The only symptom was a sore lump that

developed on one side of my gums, after which an X-ray revealed large pockets of

puss on both sides.

Dee

> > >

> > > Choosing oil swishing to replace rather than complement the other

cleaning approaches leaves a less clean mouth, so, adjuvant is still a better

term for it than calling it the primary dental therapy.

> > >

> > > We're not buying the story, even after trying it out.

> > >

> > > all good,

> > >

> > > Duncan

> > >

>

February 23, 2011

Here's a couple of high rated Waterpik-type devices, both for $24.95. Add .05

for free shipping at http://www.filleritem.com/

QuickBreeze - Dental Oral Irrigator

http://amzn.to/efOPDq

ShowerBreeze Oral Irrigator

http://amzn.to/fyarTJ

February 23, 2011

I understand your point Dee and I understand the others' too. However you get

there is good. Here's the summary on tooth decay options that I just posted to

the electroherbalism group:

Ink's still wet on our discussion of dental care at the coconut_oil_open forum;

(Feb 22, 2011 search: Tooth decay options)

What we arrived at was (oddly coconut oil swishing is not in the top three):

* waterpik with CS and peroxide or ozone; waterpik has better reach and much

stronger jet pressure than swishing oil in your mouth (some call it " oil

pulling " but it doesn't " pull " anything from the tissues); and kills viruses,

parasites and fungi that coconut oil does not.

* spin brush or sonicare brushing; manual brushing doesn't hold a candle to it

with regard to removing softer calculus and biofilm, and you can brush your

whole mouth with it.

* flossing gets the stuff caught between teeth that swishing and brushing do

not.

If you leave any of them out there is debris left behind.

* coconut oil swishing (AKA " oil pulling " ) is mentioned because some adherents

prefer it, but it only gets loose material from between the teeth and below the

gumline, using much less pressure than a waterpik.

One would waterpik, then brush, then floss. Some brush, then floss, then

waterpik. Where the gums bleed, go deep as possible and they will recover and

tighten up over a few weeks. One person swishes with oil, then brushes, then

flosses, but she's had no end of trouble for 30 years and I think the swishing

is inadequate below the gumline.

all good,

Duncan

>

> Duncan,

>

> I know what the term adjuvant means. In my case oil PULLING is my primary