Immune system

[Guest guest]

Dear Bibi..I wrote about the immune system cure book..I've been doing

since June 98 and found that I had immediate changes(within a week) and I've

been amazed throughout the year at the ways foods affect me. I have severe

RA and my pain levels are dramatically good or bad sometimes within 20 mins

of eating...I am a diehard believer in blood type diet. I've been researching

the RA and have come to feel that there is another piece to this puzzle...the

immune system..this book for the first time clarifys what has happened to the

cells and educates you on sterols and sterinols..plant substances that

directly promote the deficient cells to produce and replenish themsselves to

be in balance with other cells...so I'm on day five of the sterinols and was

told it could increase pain for a week or so but don't stop..so my first day

was a nightmare I was glad to wake up from..next day dramatic change in my

recovery..ie..getting out of bed, standing and walking..has been taking me

30-45mins and on my second day of the sterinols it took me 10 mins. My pain

has changed from sharp shooting pain when I try to walk to more like a

pressure pain...my energy level has improved this week..not spending so much

time resting..some days I was only up to getting breakfast and getting dinner

and rest of time in bed..exhausted as if I ran a marathon. I have a long

road ahead...was told for some people the immune system doesn't kick in for 6

weeks..someone who had RA took 6 weeks and now you wouldn't even know he had

it...info shared with me from his wife. i am keeping a daily log and as

anyone may be interested I will write about my progress.

Go to www.theimmunesystemcure.com

sincerely Lee

[Guest guest]

Jeanie,

I'll chime into the RA discussion a bit also. RA is rheumatoid arthritis and

I have been battling with it since 1995. The read I have on it is that the

immune system become OVERactive (a type O trait) and begins to attack the

body itself, commonly the fluids in the joints. Hands and feet are the most

common targets and it seems to appear symmetrically on both sides of the

body. Quite different from osteoarthritis which is the wearing down of a

particular joint.

It is sometimes referred to as the " young people's arthritis " . Well, I never

did seem to do things with the right age group. RA should not be left

untreated, as so many people are prone to do. It can attack other parts of

the body, even the soft tissues, even to the point of fatality. The

exhaustion Lee described is also a telling symptom. I am most interested in

the results Lee is experiencing from the sterinols.

I am presently taking a variety of medication to keep it under control. The

doctor regularly asks how my stomach is doing, as the meds frequently cause

stomach and intestinal problems that may require abandoning the medication.

Maybe the type O propensity for handling stomach acid is a boon in that

respect - I have had no adverse reactions to any of the medications so far.

So Lee, let us know how you progress.

Betsy

[Guest guest]

Lee - I have heard of RA and am familiar with it, but what exactly does it

stand for? I have fibromyalgia so am well acquainted with pain,

sleeplessness, etc., but not at the levels you are describing. I am gong to

look into this immune system thing. I'm on a cleansing, detoxing program

which has immune builders too so I am treating myself that way anyway - but

what are you talking about with the sterinols? I wil check out the website

too. Thanks. Jeanie

> From: Strgzr153@...

>

> Dear Bibi..I wrote about the immune system cure book..I've been doing

> since June 98 and found that I had immediate changes(within a week) and

I've

> been amazed throughout the year at the ways foods affect me. I have

severe

> RA and my pain levels are dramatically good or bad sometimes within 20

mins

> of eating...I am a diehard believer in blood type diet. I've been

researching

> the RA and have come to feel that there is another piece to this

puzzle...the

> immune system..this book for the first time clarifys what has happened to

the

> cells and educates you on sterols and sterinols..plant substances that

> directly promote the deficient cells to produce and replenish themsselves

to

> be in balance with other cells...so I'm on day five of the sterinols and

was

> told it could increase pain for a week or so but don't stop..so my first

day

> was a nightmare I was glad to wake up from..next day dramatic change in my

> recovery..ie..getting out of bed, standing and walking..has been taking me

> 30-45mins and on my second day of the sterinols it took me 10 mins. My

pain

> has changed from sharp shooting pain when I try to walk to more like a

> pressure pain...my energy level has improved this week..not spending so

much

> time resting..some days I was only up to getting breakfast and getting

dinner

> and rest of time in bed..exhausted as if I ran a marathon. I have a long

> road ahead...was told for some people the immune system doesn't kick in

for 6

> weeks..someone who had RA took 6 weeks and now you wouldn't even know he

had

> it...info shared with me from his wife. i am keeping a daily log and as

> anyone may be interested I will write about my progress.

> Go to www.theimmunesystemcure.com

>

> sincerely Lee

>

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/1999 8:50:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jverner@... writes:

<< I know Fibromyalgia is an

overactive immune system problem but don't really understand it. >>

There is a doctor on the radio, his name is Dr. Gabe Mirkin, from land I

think, and he says that a lot of new research indicates that a lot of

auto-immune diseases, such as RA and Fibromyalgia, are caused by infections.

Therefore, they should be treated with long term antibiotics. Interesting

concept.

Regards,

Sharon

[Guest guest]

So if your hands and your feet bother you - how do you know its RA? I have

been told the bursa in between the metatarsals are inflamed. Don't like the

sound of this. Maybe I better do some reading too. How do they treat it?

Thanks. Jeanie

Re: Immune System

> From: Eso@...

>

> Jeanie,

>

> I'll chime into the RA discussion a bit also. RA is rheumatoid arthritis

and

> I have been battling with it since 1995. The read I have on it is that

the

> immune system become OVERactive (a type O trait) and begins to attack the

> body itself, commonly the fluids in the joints. Hands and feet are the

most

> common targets and it seems to appear symmetrically on both sides of the

> body. Quite different from osteoarthritis which is the wearing down of a

> particular joint.

>

> It is sometimes referred to as the " young people's arthritis " . Well, I

never

> did seem to do things with the right age group. RA should not be left

> untreated, as so many people are prone to do. It can attack other parts

of

> the body, even the soft tissues, even to the point of fatality. The

> exhaustion Lee described is also a telling symptom. I am most interested

in

> the results Lee is experiencing from the sterinols.

>

> I am presently taking a variety of medication to keep it under control.

The

> doctor regularly asks how my stomach is doing, as the meds frequently

cause

> stomach and intestinal problems that may require abandoning the

medication.

> Maybe the type O propensity for handling stomach acid is a boon in that

> respect - I have had no adverse reactions to any of the medications so

far.

>

> So Lee, let us know how you progress.

> Betsy

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey - maybe yucca and that kind of stuff would help??? Yucca is a natural

steroid. Gonna have to look into this. I know Fibromyalgia is an

overactive immune system problem but don't really understand it. Thanks for

the insight. Jeanie

Re: Immune System

> From: Eso@...

>

> Jeanie,

>

> I'll chime into the RA discussion a bit also. RA is rheumatoid arthritis

and

> I have been battling with it since 1995. The read I have on it is that

the

> immune system become OVERactive (a type O trait) and begins to attack the

> body itself, commonly the fluids in the joints. Hands and feet are the

most

> common targets and it seems to appear symmetrically on both sides of the

> body. Quite different from osteoarthritis which is the wearing down of a

> particular joint.

>

> It is sometimes referred to as the " young people's arthritis " . Well, I

never

> did seem to do things with the right age group. RA should not be left

> untreated, as so many people are prone to do. It can attack other parts

of

> the body, even the soft tissues, even to the point of fatality. The

> exhaustion Lee described is also a telling symptom. I am most interested

in

> the results Lee is experiencing from the sterinols.

>

> I am presently taking a variety of medication to keep it under control.

The

> doctor regularly asks how my stomach is doing, as the meds frequently

cause

> stomach and intestinal problems that may require abandoning the

medication.

> Maybe the type O propensity for handling stomach acid is a boon in that

> respect - I have had no adverse reactions to any of the medications so

far.

>

> So Lee, let us know how you progress.

> Betsy

>

> >

[Guest guest]

That is interesting. I already struggle with candida most though. I think

they are still trying to figure it all out. Thanks Sharon. On the FMS list

there was something on there about the mineral oil in our cosmetics, lotions

causing arthritis. I'll send it over if anyone wants me to. Jeanie

Re: Immune System

> From: SFerris769@...

>

> In a message dated 10/14/1999 8:50:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> jverner@... writes:

>

> << I know Fibromyalgia is an

> overactive immune system problem but don't really understand it. >>

>

> There is a doctor on the radio, his name is Dr. Gabe Mirkin, from land

I

> think, and he says that a lot of new research indicates that a lot of

> auto-immune diseases, such as RA and Fibromyalgia, are caused by

infections.

> Therefore, they should be treated with long term antibiotics. Interesting

> concept.

>

> Regards,

> Sharon

>

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/1999 8:27:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jverner@... writes:

<< So if your hands and your feet bother you - how do you know its RA? >>

There is a RA factor which can be detected in a blood test.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/15/1999 12:44:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

jverner@... writes:

<< Hey - maybe yucca and that kind of stuff would help??? Yucca is a natural

steroid. >>

Yucca the tuber or yucca the green plant with the tall white flowering spike?

The tuber is a wonderful potato substitute here in tropical climes,

especially if you yearn for things like french fries. Would love to have a

good reason to eat that.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/15/1999 4:15:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Eso@... writes:

<< Yucca the tuber or yucca the green plant with the tall white flowering

spike? >>

Found the answer to my own question. The tuber is yuca and the medicinal

herb is yucca. Yuca is still good to eat, I believe the source of tapioca???

[Guest guest]

So where does one find Yucca? It sounds good...potatoes I miss the most

....with ketchup! I am finding that I like sweet potatoes after all.

Rochelle

[Guest guest]

Thank you! Jeanie

>

> << So if your hands and your feet bother you - how do you know its RA? >>

> There is a RA factor which can be detected in a blood test.

>

> >

[Guest guest]

So where are you and what is your name to be exact? Someone gave me credit

for the advice on cuts of meat you gave by mistake. I am in AK where it is

oh so not tropical. Lots of snow on the ground. Here to stay I am afraid

too - (till April or May!!) Wish I could find jerusalem artichokes up

here. They are good for blood sugar. Jeanie

> The tuber is a wonderful potato substitute here in tropical climes,

> especially if you yearn for things like french fries. Would love to have

a

> good reason to eat that.

>

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/15/1999 2:24:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jverner@... writes:

<< So where are you and what is your name to be exact? Someone gave me credit

for the advice on cuts of meat you gave by mistake. >>

I believe that's me -- Betsy son -- in subtropical South Florida,

Miami to be exact. No problems as to " credits " . It's a community sharing.

[Guest guest]

What is an RA factor? Sometimes my feet get swolen and I do not know what is

from.Water retention I guess, but, from what?

Bibi

jverner wrote:

> From: " jverner " <jverner@...>

>

> Thank you! Jeanie

> >

> > << So if your hands and your feet bother you - how do you know its RA? >>

> > There is a RA factor which can be detected in a blood test.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Feet can swell due to lots of things including bad circulation, heart

weakness, a temporarily overloaded liver, weak kidneys. I just realized

though that my feet swell when I have eaten corn or a corn product (corn

syrup, corn starch, dextrose, maltodextrin). I am also discovering that

these corn products are slipped into many common products like vitamins,

fruit juices (cranberry), supposedly healthy commerical drinks like Snapple,

candy, even some soy and rice milk!

Aikya

Re: Immune System

> From: bangel@...

>

> What is an RA factor? Sometimes my feet get swolen and I do not know what

is

> from.Water retention I guess, but, from what?

> Bibi

>

> jverner wrote:

>

> > From: " jverner " <jverner@...>

> >

> > Thank you! Jeanie

> > >

> > > << So if your hands and your feet bother you - how do you know its RA?

>>

> > > There is a RA factor which can be detected in a blood test.

> > >

> > >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/1999 10:27:48 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

jverner@... writes:

<< So if your hands and your feet bother you - how do you know its RA? I have

been told the bursa in between the metatarsals are inflamed. Don't like the

sound of this. Maybe I better do some reading too. How do they treat it?

Thanks. Jeanie >>

There is a blood test for RA, or at least one that will eliminate RA , Lupus,

MS, and some of the other auto immune diseases. My doctor used it to help to

confirm my fibromyalgia (by eliminating some of the other possibilities).

Pam

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/30/1999 8:26:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Runtshell@... writes:

> So where does one find Yucca?

Look among the potatoes and other tubers in the produce section. They are in

every Miami supermarket, but are showing up in other cities with Latin

populations. The roots are long, tapered, reddish brown. They are quite often

coated with parafin, which you cut off with the peel. The inside is creamy

white and will discolor quickly if left exposed to air. Drop cut slices into

water right away.

For yummy fries (Pollo Tropical sells them here as " Yuca Fritos " ) cut slices

into sticks a la fat french fry - boil in water until soft - drain - then

drop into hot oil and fry until crisp. Serve with garlic butter or a fresh

tangy salsa.

[Guest guest]

I would say you are almost definitely using the thermometer on the wrong, on the

wrong setting and/or your thermometer is wrong. Oral is the setting for

children over 1 year. At a temp of 105-106 many children would be in febrile

convulsions. I have 5 kids and have never seen any of them go over 102. (of

course they are also almost never sick). I agree with you about the fever, I

also let my children " ride " their fevers out.

You say she's never been under 103 when sick, but if your thermometer is set to

rectal, this means her real temp is only about 101.

Leia

AKA ZooNana (AIM and ICQ)

Militant Lactivist

Breastfeeding, AP, baby wearing, no-vax

custom buttons, keychains and more!

http://come.to/zoobuttons

> This child NEVER gets a low grade fever when ill. I have never seen her

below 103, and she usually goes to 104 or 105 when ill, of course only at

night. Is this a sign of a healthy immune system, or an unhealthy one? I

usually don't give her Tylenol for a fever, because I beleive her immune

system is raising her temp for a reason: to fight off the " buggy " in her. I

did relent the last time when she went up to 105, because she scared the

crap out of me. What is a dangerous temp? I was under the impression it is

105 or 106.

>

> Also, I use one of those Thermoscan ear thermometers. At what age do you

change the setting from rectal for babies to oral for toddlers? I tried it

last time, and it made a huge difference in her reading, like 2 or 3

degrees. I tended to believe the rectal reading, due to the way she was

acting with the 105 (lethargic, mumbling incoherently, not focusing, eyes

red and runny, mouth dry and lips cracked).

[Guest guest]

Oh that sounds scarey! Did you call her dr? I hope she is ok. To

be honest I have heard one dr say to let the fever run without

treating it...but they don't have to live with Nate. When his temp

gets high he can't sleep, can't eat, is whinny and I can't stand to

see him like this for one thing. He is just miseable. One time his

temp got up to 106 when he was a toddlers and in the hopsital for the

stomach fle...scared me to death. For little ones it can't get too

high but as they get older they can tolerant higher temps. If your

daughter was acting like that then something was wrong for sure. It

might not have been the temp causing that recation but the illness

itself or both. Did you call the dr when she started acting like

that and talk to the nurse? All the other drs have said it was ok for

me to give Nate something to get his temp down...it might not go down

to normal because he is sick...but will help him not feel so

bad...his body is still fighting the illness. Also high temps can

dehrated them really fast that may be the reason for the cracked

lips...and many kids when sick and running a high temp just don't

drink enough to keep up with what the temp is burning off. I have an

ear thing too...lol. I don't like it...I get weird readings that

don't make sense. Nate will be burning up and it says he temp is

normal or only one degree high. I like this battery operated one

that goes under his arm..don't have to add a degree to it either...I

tested it against the one they use at the dr's office. Hope that

helps some.

> I have a question for all you out there. My 4 y/o daughter is

fully vaxed (except chicken pox, rotavirus, prevnar). She was bf'd

until she was 23 months, cosleeps, eats healthy (most of the time,

now that she has her own opinions <g>).

>

> This child NEVER gets a low grade fever when ill. I have never

seen her below 103, and she usually goes to 104 or 105 when ill, of

course only at night. Is this a sign of a healthy immune system, or

an unhealthy one? I usually don't give her Tylenol for a fever,

because I beleive her immune system is raising her temp for a reason:

to fight off the " buggy " in her. I did relent the last time when she

went up to 105, because she scared the crap out of me. What is a

dangerous temp? I was under the impression it is 105 or 106.

>

> Also, I use one of those Thermoscan ear thermometers. At what age

do you change the setting from rectal for babies to oral for

toddlers? I tried it last time, and it made a huge difference in her

reading, like 2 or 3 degrees. I tended to believe the rectal

reading, due to the way she was acting with the 105 (lethargic,

mumbling incoherently, not focusing, eyes red and runny, mouth dry

and lips cracked).

>

> Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Before jumping to any conclusions about your daughter's immune systerm, I

think you should try the thermomter on yourself when you are well. If it

reads 101 or something you know it's wrong...

Or borrow a different type of thermometer from a friend and compare results.

What if you just have a wacky thermometer?

Or it could be set wrong. Call the manufacturerer or go to a pharmacy and

ask about the setting...

Also we used an ear one at the school I used to work at and it was pretty

unpredictable...

Just some thoughts...

Kelli

Immune System

> I have a question for all you out there. My 4 y/o daughter is fully vaxed

(except chicken pox, rotavirus, prevnar). She was bf'd until she was 23

months, cosleeps, eats healthy (most of the time, now that she has her own

opinions <g>).

>

> This child NEVER gets a low grade fever when ill. I have never seen her

below 103, and she usually goes to 104 or 105 when ill, of course only at

night. Is this a sign of a healthy immune system, or an unhealthy one? I

usually don't give her Tylenol for a fever, because I beleive her immune

system is raising her temp for a reason: to fight off the " buggy " in her. I

did relent the last time when she went up to 105, because she scared the

crap out of me. What is a dangerous temp? I was under the impression it is

105 or 106.

>

> Also, I use one of those Thermoscan ear thermometers. At what age do you

change the setting from rectal for babies to oral for toddlers? I tried it

last time, and it made a huge difference in her reading, like 2 or 3

degrees. I tended to believe the rectal reading, due to the way she was

acting with the 105 (lethargic, mumbling incoherently, not focusing, eyes

red and runny, mouth dry and lips cracked).

>

> Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Please forgive my street mentality on this one, but in plain terms we have to

keep the immune system as strong as possible, thats why we don't take

fludurabine or Campath or Prednisone or Chlorambucil in toxic

protocols,.....unless we have no choice. Because then these medicines which

are poisen, help to cure our cancers but also kill parts of our immune system as

a whole. Thats the main problem with fighting cancer. Perhaps it's a

misnomer, meaning that things that help us cure our cancers are not always

things that boost the immune system, in fact they more times than not lower the

immune system. But the key issue here is, usually we have no choice in the

matter due to our condition.

The problem for me is when peopel and their doctors choose to take these immune

system damaging meds when they are not yet necessary or not called for

.....especially without the docs doing proper testing and proper investigative

research. Some docs still proceed on the evidence presented by protocols that

are 10 to 15 yrs old. That is when it's up to us to pay attention and say to

ourselves and to our docs.....Hey, thats BS, thats old Hat, thats way behind the

times......

Bottom line, do everything to keep the immune system high and functioning, use

mild meds first until their is absolutely no other choice but to use the

dangerous meds. Thats my take anyway at the moment. Thanks, Kurt

Immune system

I would like to introduce a subject for discussion, based on what Dr.

said in yesterday's teleconference -

The issue was whether or not to strengthen the immune system -

I always thought that we should not do this, because we have a disease of

the immune system -

Yesterday Dr. said that if he knew HOW to strengthen the immune

system, he would do it, but that he was not convinced that the various

homeopathic

products available could really do this -

This is contrary to what my belief has been -

For example, I have AIHA, which is the product of a runaway immune system.

Why strengthen it? -

Prednisone, which I was given against the AIHA, depresses the immune system.

That makes sense. Dr. almost implied that there were " two " immune

systems!!!!!

I need some good brain power on this one, guys......

Balan

[Guest guest]

Many times I speak and type before I fully understand the question. Go figure,

self absorbed I guess. To be more pointed about your question. There are

several immune systems. One very real and mysterious immune system is the

complement system for example. Few of us have any idea of this system and yet it

is being tied into everything we do recently. However in plain language again,

the immune system that is attacking you with AIHA is one or a few of the

components that are normally part of the immune system. Meaning some of your

normal antibodies are attacking your own blood. ( You know that) The same in

general terms as it has been explained to me is the same with CLL. The White

Blood Cells for example, (an important part of CLL) part of our normal immune

system begin attacking our blood in the sense that they refuse to die when

ordered so they multiply and crowd out the more important cells in relation to

balance in our blood system. So in a sense our own immune system is attacking

us and killing us, the same with AIHA. Part of the immune system has gone

haywire and is attacking other parts of our blood and body and is slowly killing

us. I suppose Kill is a harsh word, but thats truly what is happening.

The immune system as a whole, in balance and working as a team is a great and

necessary thing to have, so we must feed this entire system in general even when

we are sick with CLL or AIHA to help keep us alive by keeping the balance of our

Immune systems fighting the majority of infections and illness that we fall prey

to. However, when parts of our immune system go out of control then you have

situations called CLL and AIHA, ITP, MDS and many many others that go unchecked

and cause us tremendous illness, fatal if uncontrolled. If I have part of

this wrong, please add too this. But this is the way it has been explained to

me. thanks, Kurt

Ps. Pardon the bad spelling.

Immune system

I would like to introduce a subject for discussion, based on what Dr.

said in yesterday's teleconference -

The issue was whether or not to strengthen the immune system -

I always thought that we should not do this, because we have a disease of

the immune system -

Yesterday Dr. said that if he knew HOW to strengthen the immune

system, he would do it, but that he was not convinced that the various

homeopathic

products available could really do this -

This is contrary to what my belief has been -

For example, I have AIHA, which is the product of a runaway immune system.

Why strengthen it? -

Prednisone, which I was given against the AIHA, depresses the immune system.

That makes sense. Dr. almost implied that there were " two " immune

systems!!!!!

I need some good brain power on this one, guys......

Balan

[Guest guest]

- " Strengthen the immune system " means to make it stronger so that it does not go

haywire as you say that your did. And if it is haywire, then " strenghtening it "

means to help

it fight whatever is causing the illness. The problem is that noone seems to

know really

how to strengthen it to fight CLL.. We know we can help our immune system fight

bacterial colds through using antibiotics. But we do not know how to strengthen

it against

CLL yet. Carolyn Swift

-- In SLL-CLL-edu , jb50192@a... wrote:

> Hello People - I have had several wonderful answers and opinions about

> whether or not to " strengthen the immune system " .

>

> I'm not a particularly dense guy, but I must admit that I still do not

> understand why an immune system which has gone haywire (i.e. in my case, AIHA,

is

> killing its own red cells) should be strengthened.

>

> Any additional thoughts?

>

>

[Guest guest]

The antibodies that normally fight the invasion of infection and disease have

sometimes gone into Cell proliferation and/or have somehow mistaken your

platelets for the bad infection or disease. That is why the Rituxan or the

Prednisone is used to relax and cause the antobodies that have gone haywire to

relax and not kill any more. If the antibodies are CD-20 marked cells which a

majority of them are.....then thats why the Rituxan helps.

In other words, your whole immune system is strong, but one part of the immune

system, one of the antibody set of warriors that fight invading infection and

disease has gone haywaire and starts recognizing your platelets or with AIHA,

your Hgb as a invading infection and disease and starts killing it. Then you

have low Hgb and/or low platelets.

Try that one :-) Kurt

Immune System

Hello People - I have had several wonderful answers and opinions about

whether or not to " strengthen the immune system " .

I'm not a particularly dense guy, but I must admit that I still do not

understand why an immune system which has gone haywire (i.e. in my case, AIHA,

is

killing its own red cells) should be strengthened.

Any additional thoughts?