Re: sent home

March 21, 2002

In a message dated 3/21/2002 10:30:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> If you are not at home, he can't be sent home.

Hi Sara,

You raise a good point. The pyschologist told me the very same thing. The

school behaviorist also told the school that they would not call mom. I do

know when they call me it's because they screwed up and I feel Zeb is in

danger with them. I was right. I just get so nervous that he is not ok that I

go. I did get a call from the special ed teacher today that she was sending

guidelines from the behaviorists for school staff to follow.The problem is

that they don't always follow them. I went into school last year after a call

from the principal to find a 200+ lb. woman on top of him. I should have had

her arrested for assault. I always have that in my mind. I'm really torn when

I get the call.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

March 21, 2002

In a message dated 3/21/2002 11:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> ---There used to be a group called the MOMS from HELL. I think that more of

> us need to adopt this attitude. I know it is not concillitory and not

> collegial but sometimes a little fear of us goes to great protection for

> our

> kids.

Hi Sara,

I have heard of this group. I think they were from Ca. You are probably right

but there is a fine line with special ed.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

March 21, 2002

Sara,

I remember you sharing this before and am using this method for my kids. At

one time we would get calls daily now they seldom call. Thank you!

& Garry, parents of (11 ds), (10 ds), JJ (8

ds/autism/celiac), (7 ds/ADHD/Celiac), and Esther (5 ds). All adopted.

----------

>From: " sara cohen " <pastmidvale@...>

>

>Subject: SENT HOME

>Date: Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 7:30 PM

>

>--Many years ago when I was dealing with being called from school to come

>get Elie because he had soiled himself and they were " uncomfortable "

>changing him since he was a young man - age 10 yo, and advocate told me to

>stop being so available to them. She suggested that I use an answering

>machine and that I not call back until I was ready. Also, not to agree to

>receive him - I am SO sorry, but I am calling you back but I am not at home

>and won't be able to get to school until 2:45 (closing time).

>

>If you are not at home, he can't be sent home. Actually what they want is

>for you to come to get him and you have to agree to do that. When I was

>told that I MUST come to get him, I said that I would be right there at

>school let out time. I did not agree to get Elie for behavior issues or for

>changing him. ONLY illness when the nurse called and NEVER after the doctor

>said he could return to school.

>

>The school didn't like it but no one said that I liked every thing that they

>did.\

>

>Sara

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

>

>--------------------------------------------------

>Checkout our homepage for information, bookmarks, and photos of

>our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by

>including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the

>archives for our list.

>--------------------------------------------

>

March 21, 2002

---There used to be a group called the MOMS from HELL. I think that more of

us need to adopt this attitude. I know it is not concillitory and not

collegial but sometimes a little fear of us goes to great protection for our

kids.

Maybe it is because I have been a nurse for so long. A patient with a strong

and vocal family gets much better care than the quiet meek ones.

Sara

-Original Message Follows----

From: " Scherbert " <Scherb@...>

Reply-

Subject: Re: SENT HOME

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:35:44 -0800

Sara,

I remember you sharing this before and am using this method for my kids. At

one time we would get calls daily now they seldom call. Thank you!

& Garry, parents of (11 ds), (10 ds), JJ (8

ds/autism/celiac), (7 ds/ADHD/Celiac), and Esther (5 ds). All adopted.

----------

>From: " sara cohen " <pastmidvale@...>

>

>Subject: SENT HOME

>Date: Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 7:30 PM

>

>--Many years ago when I was dealing with being called from school to come

>get Elie because he had soiled himself and they were " uncomfortable "

>changing him since he was a young man - age 10 yo, and advocate told me to

>stop being so available to them. She suggested that I use an answering

>machine and that I not call back until I was ready. Also, not to agree to

>receive him - I am SO sorry, but I am calling you back but I am not at

home

>and won't be able to get to school until 2:45 (closing time).

>

>If you are not at home, he can't be sent home. Actually what they want is

>for you to come to get him and you have to agree to do that. When I was

>told that I MUST come to get him, I said that I would be right there at

>school let out time. I did not agree to get Elie for behavior issues or

for

>changing him. ONLY illness when the nurse called and NEVER after the

doctor

>said he could return to school.

>

>The school didn't like it but no one said that I liked every thing that

they

>did.\

>

>Sara

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

>

>--------------------------------------------------

>Checkout our homepage for information, bookmarks, and photos

of

>our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by

>including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the

>archives for our list.

>--------------------------------------------

>

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:01:59 PM Central Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> ---There used to be a group called the MOMS from HELL. I think that more of

>

> us need to adopt this attitude. I know it is not concillitory and not

> collegial but sometimes a little fear of us goes to great protection for

> our

> kids.

>

> Maybe it is because I have been a nurse for so long. A patient with a

> strong

> and vocal family gets much better care than the quiet meek ones.

>

> Sara

>

Sara,

I think there is a mid ground that works in most cases. We as parents

definitely need to get past the need to be liked by our children's teachers

and caregivers. It can work against us and our children in getting needs met.

When I was a professional working to get services for the children I served

it was much easier to be strong. As a parent it is definitely a different

feeling sitting in those meetings. Much harder to distance myself from the

little things and concentrate on the big picture.

I feel much more like I need the teacher's acceptance and support than I did

as a professional. I think I tend to look toward them for validation of the

work I do with him. I know better but still tend to do this.

I never get personal with teachers or staff about issues.

I sat in an IEP with a parent once who stated to the school staff that she

didn't want her son taught by that witch of a teacher ____ or that liar

______. It didn't get her very far in getting her son's needs met. It just

alienated all the school personnel.

She would have gotten much further by stating that she felt certain staff,

____ and ____ wouldn't be a good personality or style match with her son and

left it at that.

I would, like Charlyne, leave an abuse investigation up to the professionals

and concentrate on preventing future issues.

It is a tough job to negotiate with schools and we rarely have enough

training.

Karyn

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/21/02 11:50:24 PM Central Standard Time,

charlyne1121@... writes:

> I did get a call from the special ed teacher today that she was sending

> guidelines from the behaviorists for school staff to follow.The problem is

> that they don't always follow them. I went into school last year after a

> call

> from the principal to find a 200+ lb. woman on top of him. I should have

> had

> her arrested for assault. I always have that in my mind. I'm really torn

> when

> I get the call.

> Charlyne

> Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

>

Getting them to follow the guidelines should be easier once they have the

investigation and know that you are serious about keeping Zeb safe. Not that

they shouldn't already know this but being investigated should get their

attention.

Can you get the guidelines included as part of the IEP so they are out of

compliance on the IEP if they don't follow them.

Karyn

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/2002 11:01:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,

KVanRyzin@... writes:

> Can you get the guidelines included as part of the IEP so they are out of

> compliance on the IEP if they don't follow them.

Hi Karyn,

The guidelines have always been in the IEP. They are just finetuning them now

but basically the same idea. I could get them for non-compliance very easily

but I need to pick my battles too.If this ever goes to a placement battle I

will use it.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/02 1:27:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,

charlyne1121@... writes:

> I could get them for non-compliance very easily

> but I need to pick my battles too.If this ever goes to a placement battle I

> will use it.

> Charlyne

Charlyne Dear,

I assume I don't have to tell you do DOCUMENT!!! RIGHT???? Hopefully,

you have a nice blue binder somewhere with every bit of this documented!!!!!

You'll need it hon.

{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}

Donna

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/02 4:09:21 PM Central Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> ---I would want to know why there is any hands on at all. A behavior plan

> can be written that people leave - not that Zeb gets man-handled. We have

> a

> total hands off policy on our son. It took awhile for us to realize that

> without it, the people at school were all to willing to use physical force

> in place of behavior managment. Passive restraints and physical restraints

>

> force the issue of the adults not knowing how to use appropriate behavior

> managment practices. Maybe some training is in order. Does your IEp

> address the issue of training for staff?

>

> Sara

>

Boy am I spoiled. I actually had to tell the sp. ed. teacher that she had my

permission to physically stop if he was throwing objects at other

children. He used this behavior when upset and had already injured one child.

They had my permision to grab his hand or arm if needed.

She grabbed it once and after that they were able to prevent the behavior and

never needed to do it since. Oh yeah, she wrote me a note telling me the

incident the day she grabbed his hand. told me to call if I had any concerns.

I've known this teacher for over 10 years with a variety of kids so we have

quite a bit of trust.

Next year I'm sure will be a different story.

Karyn

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/02 4:09:21 PM Central Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> ---I would want to know why there is any hands on at all. A behavior plan

> can be written that people leave - not that Zeb gets man-handled. We have

> a

> total hands off policy on our son. It took awhile for us to realize that

> without it, the people at school were all to willing to use physical force

> in place of behavior managment. Passive restraints and physical restraints

>

> force the issue of the adults not knowing how to use appropriate behavior

> managment practices. Maybe some training is in order. Does your IEp

> address the issue of training for staff?

>

> Sara

>

Boy am I spoiled. I actually had to tell the sp. ed. teacher that she had my

permission to physically stop if he was throwing objects at other

children. He used this behavior when upset and had already injured one child.

They had my permision to grab his hand or arm if needed.

She grabbed it once and after that they were able to prevent the behavior and

never needed to do it since. Oh yeah, she wrote me a note telling me the

incident the day she grabbed his hand. told me to call if I had any concerns.

I've known this teacher for over 10 years with a variety of kids so we have

quite a bit of trust.

Next year I'm sure will be a different story.

Karyn

March 22, 2002

---I would want to know why there is any hands on at all. A behavior plan

can be written that people leave - not that Zeb gets man-handled. We have a

total hands off policy on our son. It took awhile for us to realize that

without it, the people at school were all to willing to use physical force

in place of behavior managment. Passive restraints and physical restraints

force the issue of the adults not knowing how to use appropriate behavior

managment practices. Maybe some training is in order. Does your IEp

address the issue of training for staff?

Sara

-Original Message Follows----

From: charlyne1121@...

Reply-

Subject: Re: SENT HOME

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:43:39 EST

In a message dated 3/21/2002 10:30:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> If you are not at home, he can't be sent home.

Hi Sara,

You raise a good point. The pyschologist told me the very same thing. The

school behaviorist also told the school that they would not call mom. I do

know when they call me it's because they screwed up and I feel Zeb is in

danger with them. I was right. I just get so nervous that he is not ok that

I

go. I did get a call from the special ed teacher today that she was sending

guidelines from the behaviorists for school staff to follow.The problem is

that they don't always follow them. I went into school last year after a

call

from the principal to find a 200+ lb. woman on top of him. I should have had

her arrested for assault. I always have that in my mind. I'm really torn

when

I get the call.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

March 22, 2002

--

Being strong and assertive does not mean that one has the liberty to be

abusive of any person. That means no name calling EVER> When I am being

assertive and strong, I use a deep voice, short clipped sentences. I try to

speak as if I were writing bullet point memos. I do not allow detractors.

ANd I NEVER EVER let them use descriptors of my son such as sweet, loving,

aggressive,, etc. I want descriptive language of the actions. That means

for example: Elie enters the room and greets every one with a hug, slap,

hand shake, etc. That describes the action taken and not the person.

If I want a person removed from my son's staff circle, I describe the

actions that are called for in the IEP and not being carried out by this

person and ask the " team " what will be done to rectify this. Because of

this attitude, Elie now has compensatory OT 4 times a week. THis is

assertive behavior which some men might describe as aggressive.

Sara

--Original Message Follows----

From: KVanRyzin@...

Reply-

Subject: Re: SENT HOME

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:38:23 EST

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:01:59 PM Central Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> ---There used to be a group called the MOMS from HELL. I think that more

of

>

> us need to adopt this attitude. I know it is not concillitory and not

> collegial but sometimes a little fear of us goes to great protection for

> our

> kids.

>

> Maybe it is because I have been a nurse for so long. A patient with a

> strong

> and vocal family gets much better care than the quiet meek ones.

>

> Sara

>

Sara,

I think there is a mid ground that works in most cases. We as parents

definitely need to get past the need to be liked by our children's teachers

and caregivers. It can work against us and our children in getting needs

met.

When I was a professional working to get services for the children I served

it was much easier to be strong. As a parent it is definitely a different

feeling sitting in those meetings. Much harder to distance myself from the

little things and concentrate on the big picture.

I feel much more like I need the teacher's acceptance and support than I did

as a professional. I think I tend to look toward them for validation of the

work I do with him. I know better but still tend to do this.

I never get personal with teachers or staff about issues.

I sat in an IEP with a parent once who stated to the school staff that she

didn't want her son taught by that witch of a teacher ____ or that liar

______. It didn't get her very far in getting her son's needs met. It just

alienated all the school personnel.

She would have gotten much further by stating that she felt certain staff,

____ and ____ wouldn't be a good personality or style match with her son and

left it at that.

I would, like Charlyne, leave an abuse investigation up to the professionals

and concentrate on preventing future issues.

It is a tough job to negotiate with schools and we rarely have enough

training.

Karyn

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/2002 5:14:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> If I want a person removed from my son's staff circle, I describe the

> actions that are called for in the IEP and not being carried out by this

> person and ask the " team " what will be done to rectify this. Because of

> this attitude, Elie now has compensatory OT 4 times a week. THis is

> assertive behavior which some men might describe as aggressive.

Hi Sara,

To answer your question I do have staff training in the IEP. I don't think

that I am aggressive but assertive yes. I did not sign for anyone to

physically restrain Zeb. I asked this state woman today what exactly does the

law say? I think she will address all my concerns and get to the bottom of

this. I have everything in this IEP that you could possibly imagine.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

March 22, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/2002 5:14:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> If I want a person removed from my son's staff circle, I describe the

> actions that are called for in the IEP and not being carried out by this

> person and ask the " team " what will be done to rectify this. Because of

> this attitude, Elie now has compensatory OT 4 times a week. THis is

> assertive behavior which some men might describe as aggressive.

Hi Sara,

To answer your question I do have staff training in the IEP. I don't think

that I am aggressive but assertive yes. I did not sign for anyone to

physically restrain Zeb. I asked this state woman today what exactly does the

law say? I think she will address all my concerns and get to the bottom of

this. I have everything in this IEP that you could possibly imagine.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 9 DS/OCD ?

March 23, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/02 5:09:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> ---I would want to know why there is any hands on at all. A behavior plan

> can be written that people leave - not that Zeb gets man-handled

Know what? I am really curious about something. Does this happen more to

boys? Seems that way to me!!

Donna

March 23, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/02 5:09:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pastmidvale@... writes:

> ---I would want to know why there is any hands on at all. A behavior plan

> can be written that people leave - not that Zeb gets man-handled

Know what? I am really curious about something. Does this happen more to

boys? Seems that way to me!!

Donna

March 23, 2002

In a message dated 3/22/02 9:46:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

KVanRyzin@... writes:

> I've known this teacher for over 10 years with a variety of kids so we have

> quite a bit of trust.

> Next year I'm sure will be a different story.

>

> Karyn

Karyn,

Yes, it helps to know and trust the teacher. Maddie used to throw

things too (still does actually), but not AT someone. She enjoys watching

things fall. The food throwing was a HUGE issue for us for quite some time.

The OT at KKI was the one who helped us some wiht that. She told us to

put out our hands as soon as we see Maddie ready to hurl, so that she could

put the object in our hand. It works, but you have to be super fast in

order to catch her ready to throw (in the beginning we had to do hand over

hand). It sounds like 's throwing is different; from anger. You do

have to be careful that he doesn't hurt another child, I agree.

Donna

March 23, 2002