Boyd Haley: Comments regarding EDTA for lead when mercury is also present

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone,

I wrote to Professor Boyd Haley regarding the safety and effectiveness of

using EDTA to help remove lead, when mercury is also present. He

has graciously given me permission to share his thoughts with any person

(or list) that I believe would benefit. Please see his replies in

ALL CAPS below. Permission is given to forward this post

freely.

: See my reply in CAPS

in the text. Share with whomever you think it may help.

Boyd E. Haley

Professor

Department of Chemistry

University of Kentucky

From: R. Owen

[mailto:beth424@...]

Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 6:41 AM

Professor Boyd Haley

Subject: EDTA for lead when mercury is also present

Friday, June 17th, 2005

Dear Professor Haley,

I want to thank you for all the contributions you are making (and have

made) to the autism community. My questions concern the use of EDTA

(perhaps with DMSA) to remove lead in children and adults. (I

realize that you are a chemist and have no clinical experience; however,

your opinion is highly valued in the autism community.) I'm trying

to get clarity regarding using EDTA safely to chelate lead (in an

autistic child), when the child also has a body burden of mercury.

IF THE CHILD DOES NOT HAVE EXTENSIVE AMALGAM FILLINGS

THEN EDTA IS VERY SAFE TO USE TO REMOVE LEAD AND OTHER METALS.

It is my understanding that the

presence of other metals--in addition to mercury--makes the mercury in

our children more toxic. It is also my understanding that if lead

is present, it has to come out first before the mercury will come

out. I also understand that chelation itself, is somewhat hard on

the body. According to Ph.D. chemist, Andy Cutler, EDTA is good at

removing lead, but makes mercury in the body more toxic. It is

Andy's opinion that DMSA is better at removing lead, and that it also

removes other heavy metals. Amy Yasko, Ph.D. states that DMSA is

known to lead to a G6PDH deficiency. I DON T

HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT DMSA LEADING TO A DEFICIENCY OF G6PDHase

ACTIVITY. DMSA MAY REMOVE MERCURY BETTER THAN EDTA BUT BOTH REMOVE

MOST OTHER HEAVY METALS EFFECTIVELY, WITH EDTA BEING THE LEAST TOXIC OF

THE TWO.

I searched on Google and found a

reference to a study you did showing that EDTA makes mercury more toxic

(specifically, 100% more toxic!) Many parents are now using EDTA

(IV, Detoxamin suppositories, Calcium/Disodium oral, and Bio-Chelate

(which is somewhat of a homeopathic remedy that contains EDTA), as well

as EDTA baths (the product is called Beyond Clean from

www.LongevityPlus.com; it is promoted by Garry Gordon and Amy Yasko,

Ph.D.) to remove lead from their children. Listmates have stated

that Dr. Usman believes lead needs to be removed before the mercury will

come out. Here's a link to two studies regarding the effectiveness

of the Bio-Chelate product (I really don't see any useful data in these

studies); Dr. Usman is just beginning to try this product with her

patients: DR. USMAN IS CORRECT IN MY

OPINION. EDTA IS DANGEROUS WHEN IT IS USED WHILE THE PATIENT IS

BEING EXPOSED TO MERCURY. ONCE THE MERCURY IS BOUND IN THE BODY IT

IS VERY UNLIKELY THAT EDTA WOULD MAKE THAT MERCURY MORE TOXIC AS MERCURY

IS TO TIGHTLY BOUND TO PROTEINS FOR EDTA TO BIND TO. HOWEVER, EDTA

CAN REMOVE LEAD, CADMIUM, ETC. IN THE PRESENCE OF MERCURY QUITE

EFFECTIVELY AND THIS IS OF GREAT BENEFIT TO THE PATIENT.

http://www.evenbetternow.com/bio-chelat-usstudies.html

http://www.evenbetternow.com/bio-chelat-germanstudy.html

Many parents are now starting with EDTA first (to get the lead out),

before moving on to a stronger chelator. There has also been some

talk on email lists recently, about using a stronger chelator with

EDTA, to cancel out--I guess you'd say--the negative effect that EDTA has

on mercury. Andy Cutler states that EDTA shouldn't be used with

DMSA, but I don't know if this is true, or why. I found a study

noting increased lead removal when EDTA was used with

DMSA. I DON T KNOW OF ANY REASON WHY AND EDTA

CHELATION COULD NOT BE SUPPORTED BY DMSA OR DMPS AT THE SAME TIME.

IT WOULD HAVE THE EFFECT OF PREVENTING ANY MOBILE MERCURY FROM BEING

BOUND BY EDTA (DMPS AND DMSA BIND MERCURY MUCH MORE TIGHTLY THAN DOES

EDTA).

My questions are, as follows (I

really appreciate your time and expertise):

1) Which product do you think is more effective at removing lead from

a child (or adult) who also has mercury toxicity--EDTA or

DMSA? SEE THE ANSWER ABOVE. EDTA IS VERY

PROVEN IN THIS REGARD AND DOES NOT HAVE THE TOXIC PROPERTIES OF DMSA OR

DMPS.

2) Do you see any reason that EDTA

can't be used in conjunction with DMSA? NO,

THEY WOULD NOT REACT WITH EACH OTHER AT ALL AND THE DMSA WOULD BIND ANY

MOBILE MERCURY PREVENTING IT FROM BEING BOUND AND MADE MORE TOXIC BY

EDTA.

3) Do you think that the possibility

that EDTA makes mercury more toxic in the body is less of an issue than

the negative effect of having lead as well as mercury (in a child with

autism)? EDTA IS SAFE TO USE UNLESS THE CHILD

OR PATIENT IS CURRENTLY TAKING IN MERCURY. MOST CHILDREN DO NOT

HAVE AMALGAMS AND ARE NOT EATING FOODS CONTAINING MERCURY SO EDTA IS MOST

LIKELY VERY SAFE.

4) Do you feel that adequate

supplementation with nutrients such as vitamins, minerals, amino acids,

vitamin C, Lipoceutical Glutathione, oral glutathione, selenium, folinic

acid, and oral methyl and hydroxy B12 would be enough to neutralize any

negative effects that EDTA could have on the mercury in a child's

body? Or, do you feel that another stronger chelator (DMSA or DMPS)

has to be used with EDTA, in order to prevent any negative effects (while

of course, trying to achieve a positive effect by getting the lead

out!) I DON T THINK DMSA IS NECESSARY DURING AN

EDTA CHELATION, BUT IT MAY HELP. IT WOULD BE BETTER TO ASK THIS

QUESTION OF A PHYSICIAN THAT IS DOING THIS TYPE OF TREATMENTS AS I DO NOT

TREAT PATIENTS AND I DO NOT HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE----AND THIS IS

WHAT COUNTS.

Again, I realize that you are a

chemist and have no clinical experience. My concern is to do no

harm while chelating. Thank you in advance for any info or insights

you can provide.

[Guest guest]

and all,

What, if you know, are the views on the following?

6NEWS Investigators: A cure for autism?

02:43 PM EDT on Friday, July 15, 2005

By STUART WATSON / 6NEWS

Autism has touched many families. Most people know someone who has

dealt with the disease.

For the few who don't, but pay their taxes, autism has touched their

wallets. Tax dollars are used to treat patients and search for a

cure.

Now a local doctor said he has a cure, which he's promoting in

seminars around the country.

The 6NEWS Investigators found experts who said the so-called " cure "

is more hype than hope.

We first heard from Dr. Rashid Buttar at a seminar on autism at the

Charlotte Convention Center almost five months ago.

As the diagnosis of autism explodes, such seminars promoting

treatments have become common. There is another one in Charlotte

this weekend.

Faced with a complex disease, Dr. Buttar offers a simple cause and a

simple cure which has come under fire.

Like most toddlers, Handley started speaking, but then he

stopped. His parents said he would wander around in circles in his

own world.

Even though the Handleys live in California, they began using skin

drops developed by a North Carolina doctor.

Dr. Rashid Buttar of Cornelius is a man with a mission, a message, a

method.

" Autism is treatable. It's reversible. It's nothing more than

mercury poisoning, " said JB Handley, founder of Generation Rescue.

" I know that these children are not autistic. There is no such thing

as autism. It is toxicity, " Buttar said.

His mission is to cure autism. His message is simple.

" Yes mercury is the cause and to remove mercury is the answer, " said

Buttar.

His method is a therapy called chelation.

" Chelation is a general term. It means the removal of metals, "

Buttar said.

It can be administered by pill or intravenously. But Buttar invented

a liquid compound now made by the batch load in Gastonia. Buttar

goes so far as to say his drops are the only successful autism

therapy.

" This little bottle that helps the kids get better is the only thing

that has been shown to conclusively get these kids better. Based on

if you want to call it anecdotal or whatever, " Buttar said.

Dr. Laidler once promoted chelation at conferences just like

the ones in Charlotte.

" They were selling hope, " said Laidler. " For parents who are

desperate, hope is a very addictive drug. "

Laidler is an Oregon M.D. and has two sons who were diagnosed with

autism.

" Most of his improvement came after we stopped everything, " Laidler

said.

No one would say mercury is good for kids, whether Buttar's bottle

of skin drops cures autism is another question entirely.

" Those folks have never even shown that it's even absorbed through

the skin, " Laidler said.

In a rebuttal to that comment Buttar said, " No, we haven't done

that. Why would I waste my time proving something that I already

know is working innately? "

" So these parents, these desperate parents are buying expensive skin

lotion, " said Laidler.

And he's not the only one questioning the effectiveness of

chelation. 6NEWS showed Buttar's presentation to Jim Bodfish, a PHD

and autism researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel

Hill.

When asked if the treatment worked, Bodfish said, " At this point we

have no evidence that chelation is a significant treatment. "

But Bodfish understands the appeal of a simple cause and cure.

" When there's no known cause that's this vacuum that opens up this

black hole that allows snake oil salesmen to move in, " said Bodfish.

" If this is snake oil and what they're doing is medicine, then I

choose to practice snake oil. And I have no embarrassment with it, "

said Buttar.

Dr. Joe Stegman has seen hundreds of patients for autism in his

Kannapolis practice, but when it comes to mercury he said, " I have

yet to have one (patient) have any detectable (mercury) in their

blood. "

So ask him about chelation as cure. " I wish it were. I wish we knew

what caused autism. But I think it's a lie. I think it's a sham, "

Stegman said.

" If this was a sham then I'll tell you what. This is the best sham

that has ever been put on. I think you'd have to agree with that, "

replied Buttar.

Buttar said one bottle of drops costs more than $150 and will last

more than a month. He said parents should commit to using the drops

for at least two years.

The drug contained in the drops has not been approved by the FDA for

use in the United States.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-0714-ad-autism.a7fa1a7b.html

=====

[Guest guest]

,

That is gone into great detail on generationrescue.org. That is what

DAN MD's are doing if necessary after extensive blood/urine testing

to determine the extent of body burden of

mercury/lead/cadmium/aluminum/arsenic/antimony burden a child is

carrying.The kids are getting better, saw 30 of them with my own eyes

pre treatment video, post treatment in person. Indistinguishable from

their peers. There is a very long story as to Jim Laidlers

discounting this, and it basically boils down to politics, ego, but

not a place to get into here.Dr. Ussman, is using EDTA with huge

success on apraxic kids, along with the mb12 shots. The apraxic

children are showing lead in huge amounts, and not what is read via

blood testing, that like mercury does not tell you body burden,

unless exposure has occured within past few weeks. Old lead, is

there in tissue/bone. The lead is pouring out of them, after the

treatments, and they are getting better.

Bradford and Handley, are just about finished getting their

little boy back, they are very voiciferous as to the cause of autism

when it is not due to a genetic issue such as fragile x.they are

chelating both of their boys, one is NT but also has a high toxic

burden of metals and the little guy was autistic.

This past Wednesday, in DC a little boy aged 5 gave a speech outside

of the Capitol, told the audience he was autistic now he is not, he

told them he was chelated, and now he feels so much better, and he is

going to kindergarten in September. Zach read this speech on his own,

he was diagnosed autistic at the age of 3.He was a patient of Dr.

Buttars.So there must be " some " truth to it,

I am sure there are others on this list who are doing this, or in the

process, and perhaps they will add some more insight into it.

Colleen

-- In , " kiddietalk "

<kiddietalk@y...> wrote:

> and all,

>

> What, if you know, are the views on the following?

>

> 6NEWS Investigators: A cure for autism?

> 02:43 PM EDT on Friday, July 15, 2005

>

> By STUART WATSON / 6NEWS

>

>

> Autism has touched many families. Most people know someone who has

> dealt with the disease.

>

> For the few who don't, but pay their taxes, autism has touched

their

> wallets. Tax dollars are used to treat patients and search for a

> cure.

>

>

> Now a local doctor said he has a cure, which he's promoting in

> seminars around the country.

>

>

> The 6NEWS Investigators found experts who said the so-called " cure "

> is more hype than hope.

>

> We first heard from Dr. Rashid Buttar at a seminar on autism at the

> Charlotte Convention Center almost five months ago.

>

>

> As the diagnosis of autism explodes, such seminars promoting

> treatments have become common. There is another one in Charlotte

> this weekend.

>

>

> Faced with a complex disease, Dr. Buttar offers a simple cause and

a

> simple cure which has come under fire.

>

>

> Like most toddlers, Handley started speaking, but then he

> stopped. His parents said he would wander around in circles in his

> own world.

>

>

> Even though the Handleys live in California, they began using skin

> drops developed by a North Carolina doctor.

>

>

> Dr. Rashid Buttar of Cornelius is a man with a mission, a message,

a

> method.

>

>

> " Autism is treatable. It's reversible. It's nothing more than

> mercury poisoning, " said JB Handley, founder of Generation Rescue.

>

> " I know that these children are not autistic. There is no such

thing

> as autism. It is toxicity, " Buttar said.

>

>

> His mission is to cure autism. His message is simple.

>

>

> " Yes mercury is the cause and to remove mercury is the answer, "

said

> Buttar.

>

>

> His method is a therapy called chelation.

>

>

> " Chelation is a general term. It means the removal of metals, "

> Buttar said.

>

>

> It can be administered by pill or intravenously. But Buttar

invented

> a liquid compound now made by the batch load in Gastonia. Buttar

> goes so far as to say his drops are the only successful autism

> therapy.

>

>

> " This little bottle that helps the kids get better is the only

thing

> that has been shown to conclusively get these kids better. Based on

> if you want to call it anecdotal or whatever, " Buttar said.

>

>

> Dr. Laidler once promoted chelation at conferences just like

> the ones in Charlotte.

>

>

> " They were selling hope, " said Laidler. " For parents who are

> desperate, hope is a very addictive drug. "

>

>

> Laidler is an Oregon M.D. and has two sons who were diagnosed with

> autism.

>

>

> " Most of his improvement came after we stopped everything, " Laidler

> said.

>

>

> No one would say mercury is good for kids, whether Buttar's bottle

> of skin drops cures autism is another question entirely.

>

>

> " Those folks have never even shown that it's even absorbed through

> the skin, " Laidler said.

>

>

> In a rebuttal to that comment Buttar said, " No, we haven't done

> that. Why would I waste my time proving something that I already

> know is working innately? "

>

>

> " So these parents, these desperate parents are buying expensive

skin

> lotion, " said Laidler.

>

>

> And he's not the only one questioning the effectiveness of

> chelation. 6NEWS showed Buttar's presentation to Jim Bodfish, a PHD

> and autism researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel

> Hill.

>

>

> When asked if the treatment worked, Bodfish said, " At this point we

> have no evidence that chelation is a significant treatment. "

>

>

> But Bodfish understands the appeal of a simple cause and cure.

>

>

> " When there's no known cause that's this vacuum that opens up this

> black hole that allows snake oil salesmen to move in, " said

Bodfish.

>

>

> " If this is snake oil and what they're doing is medicine, then I

> choose to practice snake oil. And I have no embarrassment with it, "

> said Buttar.

>

>

> Dr. Joe Stegman has seen hundreds of patients for autism in his

> Kannapolis practice, but when it comes to mercury he said, " I have

> yet to have one (patient) have any detectable (mercury) in their

> blood. "

>

>

> So ask him about chelation as cure. " I wish it were. I wish we knew

> what caused autism. But I think it's a lie. I think it's a sham, "

> Stegman said.

>

>

> " If this was a sham then I'll tell you what. This is the best sham

> that has ever been put on. I think you'd have to agree with that, "

> replied Buttar.

>

>

> Buttar said one bottle of drops costs more than $150 and will last

> more than a month. He said parents should commit to using the drops

> for at least two years.

>

>

> The drug contained in the drops has not been approved by the FDA

for

> use in the United States.

> http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-0714-ad-

autism.a7fa1a7b.html

>

> =====

>