Whey

[Guest guest]

From: <nutrimedent@...>

>

> I just posted on whey previously; both ImmunePro RX and RenewPro give me a

> headache a few hours after ingestion. I don't know if it's sensitivity to the

> milk proteins, herxing, or a problem with my detox pathway.

>

> In a message dated 05/22/07 1:01:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> mmorrison@... writes:

> And speaking of whey...

> To those of you who've been using it for awhile, maybe you can answer

> this question. I just upped my ImmunePro morning dose from 6 grams to

> 7 grams, and got incredibly sleepy about an hour later. Has anybody

> else gotten this response to ImmunePro, or is it just a coincidence?

--------------------------------------------------------

I've long enjoyed the 'ordinary' whey (usually Designer Protein) for a quick

breakfast " protein shake " . I always added other nutritional powders to it.......

and I always crashed within several hours. Being obstinate about my easy

breakfast, I refused to consider the whey itself as causing the problem, so I

kept tweaking all the other ingredients. Nothing helped.

I also tried several of the ImmunoPro types, differing brands, and always

crashed.

Very reluctantly (very thick headedly!), I finally let go of my beloved whey

shakes.

Then just last week, someone sent me the following article:

**

Whey protein supplement appears to inhibit ACE, lowers BP

Blood pressure drops with DMV ingredient

16/6/2004 - Hydrolysed whey proteins significantly reduce blood pressure in a

small clinical trial, likely by altering multiple cardiovascular disease risk

facters, reported researchers at a recent diabetes conference, writes Dominique

Patton.

Hypertension affects over 80 per cent of diabetics and is one of the primary

risk markers for metabolic syndrome.

ACE (angiotensin converting enzyme) inhibitors made by drug companies have been

found to be beneficial in treating hypertension, particularly in patients with

type 1 or type 2 diabetes, and also appear to provide good cardiovascular and

renal protection. They do however have side effects.

Previous research findings indicate that the bio-active peptides in fermented

dairy foods also significantly lower blood pressure and animal data suggests

that this may be through inhibiting ACE.

A team from the University of Minnesota led by Pins carried out a study to

test the effects of an enzymatically prepared hydrolysed whey protein

supplement, containing concentrated specific bio-active peptides, on multiple

heart disease risk factors, including ACE activity and bradykinin, which

increases vascular permeability and dilates blood vessels.

The double blind, randomised placebo-controlled trial enrolled 30 generally

healthy individuals with mild/moderate hypertension. Participants were

randomised to either 20g daily of hydrolysed or unmodified whey protein and were

asked to not make lifestyle changes throughout the six-week trial.

As previously reported, treatment resulted in a significant reduction in blood

pressure levels by the end of the first week of treatment. This effect was

maintained throughout the study, reported the researchers at last week's ADA

Scientific Sessions .

Treatment significantly reduced ACE activity while ACE activity remained mostly

unchanged by the control protein. Meanwhile bradykinin was significantly

increased by treatment from 35.63.3 pg/mL to 88.76.5 pg/mL but was not

significantly changed by the control protein.

" In our study, hydrolsed whey proteins significantly reduce BP, likely by

altering ACE activity and bradykinin levels, " concluded the team.

A 5 mm Hg decrease in blood pressure has been equated with a 16 per cent

decrease in heart disease, the leading cause of death globally.

http://nutraingredients.com/news-by-health/news.asp?id=52872

June 16, 2004, article by Dominique Patton. " Whey protein supplement appears to

inhibit ACE, lowers BP "

Article notes that whey supplement more than doubled bradykinin level, lowers

BP.

************

One of the very common hallmarks of Chronic Fatigue is low BP, along with

arterial dilation. I knew I was prone to both, but never connected my whey

induced crashes to this factor,

Now, I finally know why whey is not for me.

Sharon/starshar

[Guest guest]

More on the BP issue:

Both alpha-lactalbumin, beta-lactoglobulin, key milk-based components in all

whey supplements, are known ACE inhibitors, and in a one-of-a-kind product

like Wellwisdom's ImmunoPro and RenewPro, the native proteins are raw and

unheated, so I would assume that makes them even more potent in lowering BP!

scroll to 'Cardiovascular Health':

_http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/NationalDairyCouncil/Health/Digest/dcd74-

6Page4.htm_

(http://www.nationaldairycouncil.org/NationalDairyCouncil/Health/Digest/dcd74-6P\

age4.htm)

Perhaps the 'gold standard' anecdotal challenge test would be to take an ACE

drug itself and see if it provokes the same symptoms???

In a message dated 05/22/07 7:19:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

starshar@... writes:

From: <_nutrimedent@nutrime_ (mailto:nutrimedent@...) >

>

> I just posted on whey previously; both ImmunePro RX and RenewPro give me a

> headache a few hours after ingestion. I don't know if it's sensitivity to

the

> milk proteins, herxing, or a problem with my detox pathway.

>

> In a message dated 05/22/07 1:01:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> _mmorrison@..._ (mailto:mmorrison@...) writes:

> And speaking of whey...

> To those of you who've been using it for awhile, maybe you can answer

> this question. I just upped my ImmunePro morning dose from 6 grams to

> 7 grams, and got incredibly sleepy about an hour later. Has anybody

> else gotten this response to ImmunePro, or is it just a coincidence?

--------------------------------------------------------

I've long enjoyed the 'ordinary' whey (usually Designer Protein) for a quick

breakfast " protein shake " . I always added other nutritional powders to

it.......

and I always crashed within several hours. Being obstinate about my easy

breakfast, I refused to consider the whey itself as causing the problem, so I

kept tweaking all the other ingredients. Nothing helped.

I also tried several of the ImmunoPro types, differing brands, and always

crashed.

Very reluctantly (very thick headedly!), I finally let go of my beloved whey

shakes.

Then just last week, someone sent me the following article:

**

Whey protein supplement appears to inhibit ACE, lowers BP

Blood pressure drops with DMV ingredient

16/6/2004 - Hydrolysed whey proteins significantly reduce blood pressure in

a small clinical trial, likely by altering multiple cardiovascular disease

risk facters, reported researchers at a recent diabetes conference, writes

Dominique Patton.

Hypertension affects over 80 per cent of diabetics and is one of the primary

risk markers for metabolic syndrome.

ACE (angiotensin converting enzyme) inhibitors made by drug companies have

been found to be beneficial in treating hypertension, particularly in patients

with type 1 or type 2 diabetes, and also appear to provide good

cardiovascular and renal protection. They do however have side effects.

Previous research findings indicate that the bio-active peptides in

fermented dairy foods also significantly lower blood pressure and animal data

suggests that this may be through inhibiting ACE.

A team from the University of Minnesota led by Pins carried out a study

to test the effects of an enzymatically prepared hydrolysed whey protein

supplement, containing concentrated specific bio-active peptides, on multiple

heart disease risk factors, including ACE activity and bradykinin, which

increases vascular permeability and dilates blood vessels.

The double blind, randomised placebo-controlled trial enrolled 30 generally

healthy individuals with mild/moderate hypertension. Participants were

randomised to either 20g daily of hydrolysed or unmodified whey protein and

were

asked to not make lifestyle changes throughout the six-week trial.

As previously reported, treatment resulted in a significant reduction in

blood pressure levels by the end of the first week of treatment. This effect

was

maintained throughout the study, reported the researchers at last week's ADA

Scientific Sessions .

Treatment significantly reduced ACE activity while ACE activity remained

mostly unchanged by the control protein. Meanwhile bradykinin was significantly

increased by treatment from 35.63.3 pg/mL to 88.76.5 pg/mL but was not

significantly changed by the control protein.

" In our study, hydrolsed whey proteins significantly reduce BP, likely by

altering ACE activity and bradykinin levels, " concluded the team.

A 5 mm Hg decrease in blood pressure has been equated with a 16 per cent

decrease in heart disease, the leading cause of death globally.

_http://nutraingredihttp://nuhttp://nutrainghttp://nuhttp://n_

(http://nutraingredients.com/news-by-health/news.asp?id=52872)

June 16, 2004, article by Dominique Patton. " Whey protein supplement appears

to inhibit ACE, lowers BP "

Article notes that whey supplement more than doubled bradykinin level,

lowers BP.

************

One of the very common hallmarks of Chronic Fatigue is low BP, along with

arterial dilation. I knew I was prone to both, but never connected my whey

induced crashes to this factor,

Now, I finally know why whey is not for me.

Sharon/starshar

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

From: <nutrimedent@...>

>

> Your post may have brought light to the conundrum of headache triggers with

> respect to my particular case in which both WHEY and FISH OILS induce

> headaches:

>

> 1) Whey acts as a hypotensive.

> 2) Fish Oil acts as a hypotensive.

> 3) Both substances trigger headaches in my case.

> 4) One of the symtptoms of hypotension is.....HEADACHES!

>

> It's a simple linear equation, which may or may not mean anything, so who

> knows.

>

> Any thoughts?

*****************

Yup. Instead of thinking just of hypotension, try on Vaso/arterial dilation and

see if you can make it 'fit'. All headaches, especially migraines, have a

vascular component. A migraineur will typically start with vasoconstriction

which then reverses to vaso/arterial dilation.

There are some people who are lucky enough to abort that kind of headache if

they drink a cup of strong coffee early enough.

I know a heck of a lot (unfortunately) about dilated arteries as I've been dxed

with this condition. The arteries lose their " tone " , and then blood is not

" pumped " through them as in normal arteries. It tends to " pool " , and this

usually starts in the gut (doesn't it seem like everything starts there?!).

While I'm lucky enough not to get headaches, I do have leg pain from

hell/fibromyalgia, along with chronic exhaustion. (I'm also one who suspects

that I may not have classic CFS).

My gut instinct says that most people with this chronic dragging fatigue

*probably* suffer from dilated arteries.

Decades ago, the late Dr who specialized in this condition said that he felt

that 1 in every 20 people would dilate too easily (abnormally, that is). I'd bet

the % is a lot higher now.

Any kind of major stress can cause this dilation for the first time (from a car

accident, to a death of a loved one, and anything else with such a major

impact---including a nasty long term infection). Some people just never regain

the normal arterial tone after such an event, especially if stressors continue

to batter the person.

The only time I know for sure that I'm in this dilated conditon is when the

brain fog gets really bad. Unfortunately, when I'm that fogged I don't think

about the cause for awhile.

Some things that help are 1000mg of C every hour, along with synergists such as

rutin, pycnogenol. Peppermint oil caps help tone the lower gut. Vit B-1/thiamine

is a good natural constrictor, also.

There is a physical treatment I use, taught to me by the good, long gone doc,

but there is no way I can put it here. So, 2nd best, I'm just sharing some of

the nutritional items that help.

None of the above is offered as any kind of " cure " for CFS/FM, but just to help

the one aspect of dilation for those who suspect that they might fall into that

catagory. Almost always, but notice the " almost " , this goes with chronic

hypotension.

Thanks for the link (in your other post) to the milk board's whey article. You

couldn't pay me enough to try the ACE drug!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

I often get sleepy after taking my whey protein in the morning, but If I

skip it, I still get sleepy. For me at least eating anything often causes

sleepiness/fatigue and hour or two later. I don't know if this is normal or

due to cfs or old age. I'm 64.

Tony

On 5/22/07, Marcia <mmorrison@...> wrote:

>

> And speaking of whey...

>

> To those of you who've been using it for awhile, maybe you can answer

> this question. I just upped my ImmunePro morning dose from 6 grams to

> 7 grams, and got incredibly sleepy about an hour later. Has anybody

> else gotten this response to ImmunePro, or is it just a coincidence?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Marcia on

> in Salem, Massachusetts

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Yep, beat you to the punch on the vasodilation/vasoconstriction; all these

same hypotensive triggers happen to be VASODILATORS as well! So, yes, that's

another perfect fit and supports the equation. It's no wonder that the

Fioricet I have to take when experiencing these headaches gradually knocks it

out.

It contains acetominophen and caffeine which are known to increase BP and

constrict arteries, hello!

By the eay, my headaches don't feel like migraines, but are low-intensity,

dull, nagging, but lasting headaches that have no other symptoms.

Other components to the equation are that I'm low in norepinephrine and

epinephrine (adrenalin) known to help raise BP, probably why I feel best

following moderate - intense exercise, but if I don't get adequate rest and

enough

protein/carbs after, I crash.

Oh, also forgot to mention a little thing - chronic, life-altering stress

for many years? You betcha.

It's a wonder I've made it this far with only a headache and bouts of gas!

I will need to go through the myriad of supplements in my regime and diet to

ferret out the vasodilators!

In a message dated 05/23/07 6:54:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

starshar@... writes:

From: <_nutrimedent@nutrime_ (mailto:nutrimedent@...) >

>

> Your post may have brought light to the conundrum of headache triggers

with

> respect to my particular case in which both WHEY and FISH OILS induce

> headaches:

>

> 1) Whey acts as a hypotensive.

> 2) Fish Oil acts as a hypotensive.

> 3) Both substances trigger headaches in my case.

> 4) One of the symtptoms of hypotension is.....HEADACHES!

>

> It's a simple linear equation, which may or may not mean anything, so who

> knows.

>

> Any thoughts?

*****************

Yup. Instead of thinking just of hypotension, try on Vaso/arterial dilation

and see if you can make it 'fit'. All headaches, especially migraines, have a

vascular component. A migraineur will typically start with vasoconstriction

which then reverses to vaso/arterial dilation.

There are some people who are lucky enough to abort that kind of headache if

they drink a cup of strong coffee early enough.

I know a heck of a lot (unfortunately) about dilated arteries as I've been

dxed with this condition. The arteries lose their " tone " , and then blood is

not " pumped " through them as in normal arteries. It tends to " pool " , and this

usually starts in the gut (doesn't it seem like everything starts there?!).

While I'm lucky enough not to get headaches, I do have leg pain from

hell/fibromyalgia, along with chronic exhaustion. (I'm also one who suspects

that I

may not have classic CFS).

My gut instinct says that most people with this chronic dragging fatigue

*probably* suffer from dilated arteries.

Decades ago, the late Dr who specialized in this condition said that he felt

that 1 in every 20 people would dilate too easily (abnormally, that is). I'd

bet the % is a lot higher now.

Any kind of major stress can cause this dilation for the first time (from a

car accident, to a death of a loved one, and anything else with such a major

impact---including a nasty long term infection). Some people just never

regain the normal arterial tone after such an event, especially if stressors

continue to batter the person.

The only time I know for sure that I'm in this dilated conditon is when the

brain fog gets really bad. Unfortunately, when I'm that fogged I don't think

about the cause for awhile.

Some things that help are 1000mg of C every hour, along with synergists such

as rutin, pycnogenol. Peppermint oil caps help tone the lower gut. Vit

B-1/thiamine is a good natural constrictor, also.

There is a physical treatment I use, taught to me by the good, long gone

doc, but there is no way I can put it here. So, 2nd best, I'm just sharing some

of the nutritional items that help.

None of the above is offered as any kind of " cure " for CFS/FM, but just to

help the one aspect of dilation for those who suspect that they might fall

into that catagory. Almost always, but notice the " almost " , this goes with

chronic hypotension.

Thanks for the link (in your other post) to the milk board's whey article.

You couldn't pay me enough to try the ACE drug!

Sharon

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

******Buy both - important thing is to start using it to see if you have any

benefits

with this DIRECT input of Glutathione.

If you dont improve on the whey protein - you may need to try the indirect route

of raising

Glutathione?via? methylation route. ie B12.

Regards

CS

whey

Has anyone tried the Natural Factors Whey Factors undenatured whey?

They sell at my local vitamin/health store for 12 oz. I believe around

$20. Also do you need to buy plain or does it matter if you buy flavored?

Thx, Stacey

________________________________________________________________________

AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/

now.

[Guest guest]

You shouldn't buy flavored. It messes up the ph. Flavored usually

means 'contains sugar'.

Also, I tried for years to find a whey that was as good as

ImmunePro and the other expensive ones. The cheaper ones just don't

work as well (IMO and the opinion of others who started whey based

on Cheney's recommendation 7 or so years ago).

I bet if you call NEEDS and ask for someone who is whey knowledgable,

they will explain the difference to you. BTW, this topic of

ImmunePro vs. what u can get at the health food store has come up

before on this list, and I was the one asking about the cheaper

wheys. I just don't like to mail off for stuff, and I was concerned

about the ImmunePro losing some potency when it was shipped in hot

weather. Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet and pay more.

I can't tell you how beneficial the ImmunePro was for me, and how

many $$ I wasted on the wheys at Whole Foods. I darned near felt

normal my fist day on IP.

Mike C

In , " reilly_stacey "

<reilly_stacey@...> wrote:

>

> Has anyone tried the Natural Factors Whey Factors undenatured whey?

> They sell at my local vitamin/health store for 12 oz. I believe around

> $20. Also do you need to buy plain or does it matter if you buy

flavored?

> Thx, Stacey

>

[Guest guest]

>

> should whey be taken on empty stomach or does it not matter?

> thanks a lot.

***Hi Nil - If you are taking Immunopro, RenewPro or Immunocal, those

need to be taken on an empty stomach and then what 15 to 30 minutes

before having anything to eat or drink. You should also drink it slowly

and let it sit in your mouth for a few seconds as the initial uptake of

the native protein peptides is in the mouth.

Take care.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

Hi bernie

Mine is for Labs. Name is Whey Protein Isolate. It is undenatured.It

does not say it has to be taken on empty stomach on label but I remembered some

on this list mentioning about empty stomach and that is why I am asking. I

really would prefer not to take it on empty stomach..It is very difficult for me

to follow it. Would you think it be a problem if I take it anytime I like?

thanks and best wishes,

Nil

Re: whey

>

> should whey be taken on empty stomach or does it not matter?

> thanks a lot.

***Hi Nil - If you are taking Immunopro, RenewPro or Immunocal, those

need to be taken on an empty stomach and then what 15 to 30 minutes

before having anything to eat or drink. You should also drink it slowly

and let it sit in your mouth for a few seconds as the initial uptake of

the

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi bernie

>

> Mine is for Labs. Name is Whey Protein Isolate. It is

undenatured.It does not say it has to be taken on empty stomach on

label but I remembered some on this list mentioning about empty

stomach and that is why I am asking. I really would prefer not to

take it on empty stomach..It is very difficult for me to follow it.

Would you think it be a problem if I take it anytime I like?

>

***Hi Nil - The following is from the ImmunoPro web-site.

>>>Purified water is the best liquid to thoroughly mix ImmuneProRx™.

The whey proteins are easily denatured through heat and pH change.

Mixing the whey protein with any other types of food can induce a pH

change and slow the transit time in the stomach through its digestive

response to the solid food. Liquids that are not neutral in their pH

can also denature the proteins, for example: most fruit juices,

coffee, and tea. By following the above guide, the uptake of the

undenatured protein fractions in the upper small intestine is

optimized. A small amount of Stevia is an acceptable sweetener, if

desired, for palatability.<<<

Hope that helps.

Take care.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much Bernie. This was very helpful.

Nil

Re: whey

>

> Hi bernie

>

> Mine is for Labs. Name is Whey Protein Isolate. It is

[Guest guest]

You could strain it through cheese cloth. If you strain off the whey,

you have cheese.

I've done this a few times so that I can use the whey to soak grains in.

-

Roy

Texas

I was also wondering about using the whey. My kefir regularly separates,

no matter how much milk I use. How would you separate the whey out from

the kefir? I strain my kefir right into the blender so the whey just

goes in our smoothies.. but I would like to end up with something a

little thicker (and tasting a little better), which might happen if I

could ever learn to avoid or take out the whey.

michelle

[Guest guest]

I strained my kefir and the solids made a nice creamy cream cheese. It took

me 3 trys to get the right cloth. " cheese cloth " was too porous and let it

all go through. The first tight weave dish towel was too tight and wouldnt

let anything go through. I finally used an old dish towel with lose weave

and let it drain/drip for about 24 hours. The cloth got plugged with solids

and the inner side of the cheese was less solid than the outer layer but it

all mixed up nicely. Taste is tart but yummhy.

_

[Guest guest]

>

> I was also wondering about using the whey. My kefir regularly separates, no

matter how much milk I use. How would you separate the whey out from the kefir?

I strain my kefir right into the blender so the whey just goes in our

smoothies.. but I would like to end up with something a little thicker (and

tasting a little better), which might happen if I could ever learn to avoid or

take out the whey.

> michelle

>

michelle,

Manage your milk and grains to cure in 24 hours, strain, run through blender for

about 20-30secs, pour into a glass container and set in the refrigerator to cure

another 12-24hrs. It will be thick and creamy. It may separate again very little

(or not at all). If it does just stir it a little bit and drink. I personally

don't understand why people want to strain out the whey. That is part of the

kefir, all mixed together is where all the " good stuff " is.

Wil

[Guest guest]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:15 AM, michelle <michelliosis@...> wrote:

> I was also wondering about using the whey. My kefir regularly separates,

> no matter how much milk I use. ...

You haven't tried using four times the amount of milk more than the most

you've ever used. I guarantee it won't separate when you give them enough

milk. There has to be a certain acidity before separation occurs.

Marilyn

[Guest guest]

You can get a yogurt strainer.  I have one but don't remember where I got it.  I

did the yogurt once and it tastes like Greek yogurt.  It was yummy but I was

left with too much whey and that's good for you.

d'Entremont

Promises are as good as the moment spoken.

From: <sandraw@...>

Subject: RE: whey

Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 11:05 AM

I strained my kefir and the solids made a nice creamy cream cheese. It took

me 3 trys to get the right cloth. " cheese cloth " was too porous and let it

all go through. The first tight weave dish towel was too tight and wouldnt

let anything go through. I finally used an old dish towel with lose weave

and let it drain/drip for about 24 hours. The cloth got plugged with solids

and the inner side of the cheese was less solid than the outer layer but it

all mixed up nicely. Taste is tart but yummhy.

_

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

This was all the rage about ten years ago. Dr. Cheney and several other top

ME/CFIDS doctors did studies on it. Like glut. supplementation, the effects do

not last.

The archives are RICH in information re: whey, especially undenatured whey like

ImmunoPro. There were/are several brands.

The methylation protocols are meant to fix what is upstream, while glut

supplementation (injections, nebulizing, lotion, etc) and whey or other glut.

precursors are a bandaid. It doesn't mean that they don't have a place but just

know that your glut. levels will not remain high once you get off the whey.

Regarding whey, it is high in glutamates which can be an excitotoxin if you are

eating a processed food diet. Also, it contains cysteine which can be hard to

take if your methylation cycle is out of balance (the sulfur portion, I

believe). Lastly, it contains casein which is broken down to an opiate type

protein and can make brain fog worse.

I find that if I follow the autism protocol, many symptoms of my ME are cleared

up, that includes a gluten free, casein free, whole food/slow food diet.

I did try the undenatured whey ten years ago or so and I could tolerate 1/8 tsp

every other day. The detox was barely tolerable. This is something to go VERY

slowly with. Do not make a shake with 2 tablespoons! It is not like a protein

powder. There were many people on the list back then that could tolerate larger

doses than me once they worked up to it.

Hopefully, others will jump in who are using it now.

Marti

>

> Hi All

>

> A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body needs to

> make glutathione or glutathione itself

>

> How many of you use whey and does it help?

>

> Thanks

>

> Steve

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Marti

Very helpful information

I think if I add it to my protocol I will keep in mind it is a temp

fix for especially stressful times

Right now I am experimenting with NT Factor Energy by Researched

Nutritionals to help my protocol

I can only use a very little amount about 1/16 every other day or I

get hyped by it

Does anyone know why?

Steve

On Apr 22, 2010, at 8:55 AM, marti_zavala wrote:

> Hi Steve,

> This was all the rage about ten years ago. Dr. Cheney and several

> other top ME/CFIDS doctors did studies on it. Like glut.

> supplementation, the effects do not last.

>

> The archives are RICH in information re: whey, especially

> undenatured whey like ImmunoPro. There were/are several brands.

>

> The methylation protocols are meant to fix what is upstream, while

> glut supplementation (injections, nebulizing, lotion, etc) and whey

> or other glut. precursors are a bandaid. It doesn't mean that they

> don't have a place but just know that your glut. levels will not

> remain high once you get off the whey.

>

> Regarding whey, it is high in glutamates which can be an excitotoxin

> if you are eating a processed food diet. Also, it contains cysteine

> which can be hard to take if your methylation cycle is out of

> balance (the sulfur portion, I believe). Lastly, it contains casein

> which is broken down to an opiate type protein and can make brain

> fog worse.

>

> I find that if I follow the autism protocol, many symptoms of my ME

> are cleared up, that includes a gluten free, casein free, whole food/

> slow food diet.

>

> I did try the undenatured whey ten years ago or so and I could

> tolerate 1/8 tsp every other day. The detox was barely tolerable.

> This is something to go VERY slowly with. Do not make a shake with 2

> tablespoons! It is not like a protein powder. There were many people

> on the list back then that could tolerate larger doses than me once

> they worked up to it.

>

> Hopefully, others will jump in who are using it now.

> Marti

>

>

> >

> > Hi All

> >

> > A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body needs to

> > make glutathione or glutathione itself

> >

> > How many of you use whey and does it help?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Steve

> >

> >

>

>

Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become

actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits;

they become character. Watch your character; for it becomes your destiny

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I will add that I tried ImmunePro whey powder about 3 years ago, and

it was one of the things that just slammed me with a die-off/detox

(sometimes referred to as a " herx " ) reaction. Ran a fever for a couple

days, felt like I'd been run over by a truck. As Marti said, start

with a tiny bit and see how that goes. If that goes okay, increase

slowly, a bit at a time.

Good luck,

Marcia on

in Salem, Massachusetts

On Apr 22, 2010, at 1:15 PM, S B wrote:

> Thanks Marti

>

> Very helpful information

>

> I think if I add it to my protocol I will keep in mind it is a temp

> fix for especially stressful times

> Right now I am experimenting with NT Factor Energy by Researched

> Nutritionals to help my protocol

> I can only use a very little amount about 1/16 every other day or I

> get hyped by it

>

> Does anyone know why?

>

> Steve

> On Apr 22, 2010, at 8:55 AM, marti_zavala wrote:

>

>> Hi Steve,

>> This was all the rage about ten years ago. Dr. Cheney and several

>> other top ME/CFIDS doctors did studies on it. Like glut.

>> supplementation, the effects do not last.

>>

>> The archives are RICH in information re: whey, especially

>> undenatured whey like ImmunoPro. There were/are several brands.

>>

>> The methylation protocols are meant to fix what is upstream, while

>> glut supplementation (injections, nebulizing, lotion, etc) and whey

>> or other glut. precursors are a bandaid. It doesn't mean that they

>> don't have a place but just know that your glut. levels will not

>> remain high once you get off the whey.

>>

>> Regarding whey, it is high in glutamates which can be an excitotoxin

>> if you are eating a processed food diet. Also, it contains cysteine

>> which can be hard to take if your methylation cycle is out of

>> balance (the sulfur portion, I believe). Lastly, it contains casein

>> which is broken down to an opiate type protein and can make brain

>> fog worse.

>>

>> I find that if I follow the autism protocol, many symptoms of my ME

>> are cleared up, that includes a gluten free, casein free, whole food/

>> slow food diet.

>>

>> I did try the undenatured whey ten years ago or so and I could

>> tolerate 1/8 tsp every other day. The detox was barely tolerable.

>> This is something to go VERY slowly with. Do not make a shake with 2

>> tablespoons! It is not like a protein powder. There were many people

>> on the list back then that could tolerate larger doses than me once

>> they worked up to it.

>>

>> Hopefully, others will jump in who are using it now.

>> Marti

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

I missed the last part of this post.

I started the NT Factor at the same time as you did, I believe.

I was up to the full ramping dose (6 tablets per day) to NO effect.

I decided to stop taking it as I was going to start the LDN and to do more

research and determine what other supplements help the NT Factor work better.

I do know that I produce Anti Mitochondrial Antibodies as well as having out of

balanced CD8/CD38. The CD38's use up the ADP before it can be converted to ATP

- leaving a negative energy. (This is what I have learned from spotty research

so that could wrong - having trouble going through the PubMed articles to find

the answers).

I have been interested in the ATP test but like others, thought it was UK only.

Will be looking at Louella results to see what they test for and if would tie in

the Anti-Mitochondrial Antibodies and/or the CD38's.

I had these tests done by Mainstream Medicine but at my insistence. There is no

one to help me decipher the significance. Perhaps I will contact Dr. .

Back to your question, I do not know enough to be able to guess why you cannot

tolerate such low doses. 1/16th of a tablet is very low so I would imagine this

would be a clue to something important. And since I don't have ANY reaction

(good or bad), that is a clue for me.

Not sure,

Marti

> > >

> > > Hi All

> > >

> > > A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body needs to

> > > make glutathione or glutathione itself

> > >

> > > How many of you use whey and does it help?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Steve

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

> Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become

> actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits;

> they become character. Watch your character; for it becomes your destiny

>

[Guest guest]

HI Marti

I use just very tiny amount of the NT Factor Energy a few times a week

and it seems to help

Steve

On Apr 25, 2010, at 2:57 PM, marti_zavala wrote:

> Hi Steve,

> I missed the last part of this post.

>

> I started the NT Factor at the same time as you did, I believe.

>

> I was up to the full ramping dose (6 tablets per day) to NO effect.

>

> I decided to stop taking it as I was going to start the LDN and to

> do more research and determine what other supplements help the NT

> Factor work better.

>

> I do know that I produce Anti Mitochondrial Antibodies as well as

> having out of balanced CD8/CD38. The CD38's use up the ADP before it

> can be converted to ATP - leaving a negative energy. (This is what I

> have learned from spotty research so that could wrong - having

> trouble going through the PubMed articles to find the answers).

>

> I have been interested in the ATP test but like others, thought it

> was UK only. Will be looking at Louella results to see what they

> test for and if would tie in the Anti-Mitochondrial Antibodies and/

> or the CD38's.

>

> I had these tests done by Mainstream Medicine but at my insistence.

> There is no one to help me decipher the significance. Perhaps I will

> contact Dr. .

>

> Back to your question, I do not know enough to be able to guess why

> you cannot tolerate such low doses. 1/16th of a tablet is very low

> so I would imagine this would be a clue to something important. And

> since I don't have ANY reaction (good or bad), that is a clue for me.

>

> Not sure,

> Marti

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi All

> > > >

> > > > A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body

> needs to

> > > > make glutathione or glutathione itself

> > > >

> > > > How many of you use whey and does it help?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Steve

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they

> become

> > actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits;

> > they become character. Watch your character; for it becomes your

> destiny

> >

>

>

>

" Wisdom is the prime thing... and with all that you acquire, acquire

understanding "

[Guest guest]

HI Marti

I just picked up something called BlueBonnet whey protein isolate

I has undenatured whey protein isolate and stevia

Is this the stuff?

Thanks

Steve

On Apr 22, 2010, at 8:55 AM, marti_zavala wrote:

> Hi Steve,

> This was all the rage about ten years ago. Dr. Cheney and several

> other top ME/CFIDS doctors did studies on it. Like glut.

> supplementation, the effects do not last.

>

> The archives are RICH in information re: whey, especially

> undenatured whey like ImmunoPro. There were/are several brands.

>

> The methylation protocols are meant to fix what is upstream, while

> glut supplementation (injections, nebulizing, lotion, etc) and whey

> or other glut. precursors are a bandaid. It doesn't mean that they

> don't have a place but just know that your glut. levels will not

> remain high once you get off the whey.

>

> Regarding whey, it is high in glutamates which can be an excitotoxin

> if you are eating a processed food diet. Also, it contains cysteine

> which can be hard to take if your methylation cycle is out of

> balance (the sulfur portion, I believe). Lastly, it contains casein

> which is broken down to an opiate type protein and can make brain

> fog worse.

>

> I find that if I follow the autism protocol, many symptoms of my ME

> are cleared up, that includes a gluten free, casein free, whole food/

> slow food diet.

>

> I did try the undenatured whey ten years ago or so and I could

> tolerate 1/8 tsp every other day. The detox was barely tolerable.

> This is something to go VERY slowly with. Do not make a shake with 2

> tablespoons! It is not like a protein powder. There were many people

> on the list back then that could tolerate larger doses than me once

> they worked up to it.

>

> Hopefully, others will jump in who are using it now.

> Marti

>

>

> >

> > Hi All

> >

> > A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body needs to

> > make glutathione or glutathione itself

> >

> > How many of you use whey and does it help?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Steve

> >

> >

>

>

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

I am not familiar with current brands but the fact that it is undenatured is the

key, so that product should work just like the others.

I would start slowly (I mean ridiculously slowly) as it packs a punch. You can

take several doses and not feel a thing then something gives way and you are

detoxing way too fast.

If you are working, I would take it on Friday and I would make sure you have all

of the ways to slow down detox under your belt. Charcoal capsules with

magnesium, caffeine flushes, good water intake, good bowel movements, etc.

I never could get past 1/8 tsp every other day and even then I had difficulty

with the level of detox.

Hope it works for you,

Marti

> > >

> > > Hi All

> > >

> > > A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body needs to

> > > make glutathione or glutathione itself

> > >

> > > How many of you use whey and does it help?

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Steve

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

> Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

>

[Guest guest]

OK

Thanks

Well I tried it and so far it seems to agree with me

I usually try new stuff in the morning just in case so it won't

disrupt my sleep but I tried this stuff for dinner

It's to soon to tell if it is going to be a long term solution

Steve

On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:11 PM, marti_zavala wrote:

> Hi Steve,

> I am not familiar with current brands but the fact that it is

> undenatured is the key, so that product should work just like the

> others.

>

> I would start slowly (I mean ridiculously slowly) as it packs a

> punch. You can take several doses and not feel a thing then

> something gives way and you are detoxing way too fast.

>

> If you are working, I would take it on Friday and I would make sure

> you have all of the ways to slow down detox under your belt.

> Charcoal capsules with magnesium, caffeine flushes, good water

> intake, good bowel movements, etc.

>

> I never could get past 1/8 tsp every other day and even then I had

> difficulty with the level of detox.

>

> Hope it works for you,

> Marti

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi All

> > > >

> > > > A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body

> needs to

> > > > make glutathione or glutathione itself

> > > >

> > > > How many of you use whey and does it help?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Steve

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

> >

>

>

>

" Cultivated People harmonize without imitating, Immature People

imitate without harmonizing "

[Guest guest]

OK

Thanks

Well I tried it and so far it seems to agree with me

I usually try new stuff in the morning just in case so it won't

disrupt my sleep but I tried this stuff for dinner

It's to soon to tell if it is going to be a long term solution

I have not heard of a caffeine flush

Steve

On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:11 PM, marti_zavala wrote:

> Hi Steve,

> I am not familiar with current brands but the fact that it is

> undenatured is the key, so that product should work just like the

> others.

>

> I would start slowly (I mean ridiculously slowly) as it packs a

> punch. You can take several doses and not feel a thing then

> something gives way and you are detoxing way too fast.

>

> If you are working, I would take it on Friday and I would make sure

> you have all of the ways to slow down detox under your belt.

> Charcoal capsules with magnesium, caffeine flushes, good water

> intake, good bowel movements, etc.

>

> I never could get past 1/8 tsp every other day and even then I had

> difficulty with the level of detox.

>

> Hope it works for you,

> Marti

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi All

> > > >

> > > > A Doc told me that whey is the best source of what you body

> needs to

> > > > make glutathione or glutathione itself

> > > >

> > > > How many of you use whey and does it help?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Steve

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

> >

>

>

>

" Cultivated People harmonize without imitating, Immature People

imitate without harmonizing "