gallstones

[Guest guest]

Marilyn wrote:

> How long do you walk around with a stone in

> your shoe before

> you take it off and remove it?

But you remove the stones, not your foot because it hurts. :-0

> Why would you want to try to dissolve the

> gallstones under such circumstances? They are quite liable

> to come back if

> your gallbladder is diseased!

A question: once the stones are dissolved, could the gallbladder then be

cleansed and no longer be diseased?

> - I'm living

> proof that you can live without a gallbladder - live much

> BETTER, actually,

> if your gallbladder is unhealthy!!

Lynn, consider:

A good friend of mine had her gallbladder removed and generally feels much

better, but because her body produces excess bile, and it's the

gallbladder's job to store the bile, she gets really sick (diarrhea and

stomach cramps) after some meals because the bile has nowhere to go (of

course, she's not ER4YT).

Lynn, I hope you find the best solution for yourself, and it may be surgery.

But if it's possible to heal the gallbladder... wouldn't that be wonderful?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/2/00 5:21:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

n.scott@... writes:

<< Lynn, I hope you find the best solution for yourself, and it may be

surgery.

But if it's possible to heal the gallbladder... wouldn't that be wonderful?

>>

Ditto,

Aren't you trying to heal the gb first before getting it removed? I know how

you might be suffering. Best wishes.

Ann in Fla.

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

I am very glad your doctor postponed the operation. I started a fast two

days ago (and I am feeling great by the way) and reading a book of Herbert

Shelton (Fasting Can Save your Life) on page 159 I though of you:

" In my opinion there is no necessity to operate for gallstones. Normal

nutrition is not restored by removing an effect of impaired nutrition. The

great and growing army of postoperative invalids attest to the fact that

operations on organs of the body do not restore health. Too many organs are

removed that could be saved by the simple expediency of draining them by

means of fast.

Instead of surgically draining the gall bladder, a fast will enable the body

to perform an excellent job of drainage and do it in a way to leave the gall

bladder intact and unharmed. For days and nights, often, these patients will

pass bile through the bowels and by vomiting.

The patient has not been restored to health when his gallstones have been

removed. The purpose of correct care of the patient with gallstones is to

restore normal liver function so that the bile chemistry may become normal

again and cease precipitating the mineral elements and thus end the making of

stones.

As the liver cannot be restored to health without restoring the whole body to

health, no treatment directed at the liver will serve these ends. A general

systemic housecleaning followed by a genuine health-building program is

essential. "

Get well soon!

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>I am very glad your doctor postponed the operation.

It was my homeopath who postponed it. My gastroenterologist and

surgeon don't know it's postponed yet.

LOVED the passage on fasting you sent to the list. Do you wonder how

many needless gallbladder operations are taking place every

day...every hour...? I think that some are necessary because the

situation is critical and possibly life-threatening. But, I've been

hearing from so many people that getting rid of the gallbladder does

not stop the problem if the liver is toxic or congested.

>A general systemic housecleaning followed by a genuine health-building

>program is essential.

Amen to that. Hopefully, with the help of the Type O program, I'm on

my way to doing that. Thanks for the well wishes!

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Docs,

Just thought you might be interested in this case. A while ago a

patient of mine went to the hospital because she was having kidney pain. She

is now 19 years old. Anyway, upon ultrasound of the kidneys it was

discovered that she has gallstones. The hospital wanted to possibly operate

on her gallbladder or remove it. I said " wait, let's try the TBM gallbladder

flush first " . What you see are the results of that flush two days later.

Case closed.

Matt Terreri, DC

Keep in mind that you do run the risk of getting a stone stuck in the common

duct, but I figured if they were going to operate anyway...

[Guest guest]

I am not trying to rain on your parade, I really am not. But I had a colleague of mine who said she sent a similar sample of stones to the lab and they turned out to be congealed olive oil (used in the GB flush). I did not see the lab assay so I cannot verify this 100%. But I would not consider the "case closed" until your patient had another abdominal ultrasound to actually see the status of her gallbladder. I really hope that it shows there are no stones.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Dr. Terrieri,

Great case! What are you doing to prevent recurrence? Do you have any

thoughts on this? Steve Lumsden

Fw: Gallstones

> Hi Docs,

>

> Just thought you might be interested in this case. A while ago a

> patient of mine went to the hospital because she was having kidney pain.

She

> is now 19 years old. Anyway, upon ultrasound of the kidneys it was

> discovered that she has gallstones. The hospital wanted to possibly

operate

> on her gallbladder or remove it. I said " wait, let's try the TBM

gallbladder

> flush first " . What you see are the results of that flush two days later.

> Case closed.

>

>

> Matt Terreri, DC

>

> Keep in mind that you do run the risk of getting a stone stuck in the

common

> duct, but I figured if they were going to operate anyway...

>

>

>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Terrieri:

Gallbladder attacks, like many physical conditions, have acute episodes

followed by periods of quiescence. This does not constitute recovery, but it

does indicate there is time to stabilize the function of the digestive

tract. A serious remake of the diet is indicated. Obviously, fat digestion

will trigger gall bladder spasms, as will coffee, caffeine, and some herbs.

Consider undecenoic acid, urso or chenodeoxycholic acid, peppermint oil to

dissolve gallstones, digestive enzymes or HCl, GLA, DHA, Magnesium, etc for

nutritional resuscitation as necessary. Adjust to restore normal tone.

Aerobic exercise, Relaxation training, especially in eating styles.

Follow blood chem. liver enzymes every 6 weeks for 12 weeks.

Willard

Re: Fw: Gallstones

Dr. Terrieri,

Great case! What are you doing to prevent recurrence? Do you have any

thoughts on this? Steve Lumsden

Fw: Gallstones

> Hi Docs,

>

> Just thought you might be interested in this case. A while ago a

> patient of mine went to the hospital because she was having kidney pain.

She

> is now 19 years old. Anyway, upon ultrasound of the kidneys it was

> discovered that she has gallstones. The hospital wanted to possibly

operate

> on her gallbladder or remove it. I said " wait, let's try the TBM

gallbladder

> flush first " . What you see are the results of that flush two days later.

> Case closed.

>

>

> Matt Terreri, DC

>

> Keep in mind that you do run the risk of getting a stone stuck in the

common

> duct, but I figured if they were going to operate anyway...

>

>

>

>

>

>

> OregonDCs rules:

> 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to

foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve

members will be tolerated.

> 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

> 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere.

However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward,

or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his

or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Matt, I had a friend who had gallstones and I recommended drinking beet juice (which is supposed to act as an emulsifier and dissolve many stones). She did this and the pain went away. She has not had another ultrasound, but does not care as long as she does not have pain or symptoms.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Did I read it correctly that the patient is to drink nothing but 8 oz of apple juice twice a day for at least a month? Wow.

I would love to see a follow up ultrasound reveal no stones. I hope she follows through and has it done.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann

I had the exact same thing happen to me in December. Get it out when they

schedule you but if you get sick before that go to the hospital. My gallbladder

went bad before the scheduled date and I got peritinitis, they had to pump four

liters of ugly green fluid out of my stomach and I was in the hospital for

four days.

Good luck

Pat Iurato

MGB 3/7/01

362/169

[Guest guest]

,

The laser surgery is safe and a quick recovery. Home within two

days. I don't know of any kids having one.. My mom had hers out years ago.

She

had the old fashion surgery. She had 3-4 weeks recovery.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who weighed in on the situation. I am going to get a second

opinion and ask about specific things we need to look for that are showing an

attack (in a child who does not complain of not feeling well). I'll let

everyone know the outcome because we will be requesting prayers to get through

this if we go ahead with the surgery.

Thanks again!

mom to Bridget 11 ds in SC

gallstones

Hey,

Anyone child with ds have gallstones? If so, did you have them removed.

Also, what symptoms did they have?

Bridget has one fairly large gallstone. We have had one episode we think is

related to the gallstone, but are not real sure. They want to do surgery to

remove the gallbladder. Bridget has been through 2 other surgeries. I'm not

sure I want her to go through another one if I don't need her to.

Thanks for any info anyone can give.

mom to Bridget 11 in SC

[Guest guest]

I had 'em, but had my gall bladder out a few years ago. One less part to screw up for me.

De

Faith is the ability to not panic.

-----Original Message-----From: Hepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies [mailto:Hepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies ] On Behalf Of Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:32 AMHepatitis CSupportGroupForDummies Subject: Good morning all!!... Anyone else have gallstones? I had my ultrasound Wed morning & the nurse called yesterday to say I have gallstones & the doc will call me today to explain my options. Guess that explains the pain in my side. Is it somehow related or caused by HEPC? My biopsy is scheduled for Friday May 6th.Hope everyone has a great weekend.Be well,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yes, with a stone of that nature, I would hesitate (for a bit of time) to advise flushing as well. As a person with controlled gallbladder disease (and having just last week passed a large stone...no I didn't measure it), I can speak to the relative ease of flushing stones.

With one documented of that size, the initial advise would be start vitamin C ...Dr. ing's research show that at 3000 mg/day, stones begin to soften and at 5000/day they begin to erode. (and remember, vitamins don't work without minerals ...sounds like your sister is deficient in both.) 6 months like that and she could consider the flush.

In the meantime, she needs to go to do the things that decrease calcium loss: change to decaf coffee or teas (somehow the caffeine in teas seems not to affect the gallbladder the way coffee caffeine does); hydrate adequately; lower the daily protein to 20 - 50 gm/day; use powdered calcium...carrot juice for lunch a couple of days/week.

Dr. Jonothon (www.wrightnewsletter.com) has an excellent article on the fall-out of gallbladder removal which she may want to read before considering the surgery. He cites the New England Journal of Medicine comparing the mortality rate of routine gb removal vs the rate from emergency removal...the rates from the routine procedures is greater than the rate from the emergency ones. I've chosen to keep mine and do the things that keeps it quiet...at least most of the time. but in the 30years since it has been diagnosed, I've has 3 episodes ... not much trouble compared to the difficulty I would have with the structural problems I could have from the chronic loss of vit A & D over the years.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

@ Turtle Island Health Center

56 Oakway Center

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541-683-5600

From: " Snell" <drpsnell@...> Subject: gallstonesDate: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:17:59 -0700Hey Folks,My sister in Fla. called this AM and says that X-rays indicate she has a 2cm gallstone and she has a recommendation for cholecystectomy. She askedabout alternatives. I have not had direct experience with treatment ofthese so would appreciate any input.The extent of my knowlege is that estrogen therapy (she has h/o Premarinuse) increases risk of formation, >4 cups of caffeinated coffee decreasesrisk of formation, moderate alcohol consumption decreases risk.I am concerned about standard "liver flush" alternatives with a stone thislarge. We got anecdotal evidence in school re: pulsed US and bile salts.Any particulars on these would be helpful.Thanks in advance. W. Snell, D.C.3343 SE Hawthorne Blvd.Portland, OR 97214Ph. 503-235-5484Fax 503-235-3956

[Guest guest]

Phil...go to www.curezone.com and the liver/GB flush forum...youll

see pics of stones passed that measure 3.2 cm! The flushes are easy

if you follow the formula exactly as it is written...the Hulda

formula, not the Kelley formula. I just finished my 8th flush.

http://curezone.com/cleanse/liver/default.asp

Dennis Nowack DC

-- In , " Snell " <drpsnell@h...>

wrote:

> Hey Folks,

>

> My sister in Fla. called this AM and says that X-rays indicate she

has a 2

> cm gallstone and she has a recommendation for cholecystectomy.

She asked

> about alternatives. I have not had direct experience with

treatment of

> these so would appreciate any input.

>

> The extent of my knowlege is that estrogen therapy (she has h/o

Premarin

> use) increases risk of formation, >4 cups of caffeinated coffee

decreases

> risk of formation, moderate alcohol consumption decreases risk.

>

> I am concerned about standard " liver flush " alternatives with a

stone this

> large. We got anecdotal evidence in school re: pulsed US and

bile salts.

> Any particulars on these would be helpful.

>

> Thanks in advance.

>

>

>

> W. Snell, D.C.

> 3343 SE Hawthorne Blvd.

> Portland, OR 97214

> Ph. 503-235-5484

> Fax 503-235-3956

[Guest guest]

Include more sodium foods in your diet. A google search should

provide you a list of good food sources for the mineral. I'm not

suggesting you take more table salt, but more sodium foods.

A primary salt in bile is sodium salts. When the body needs sodium it

takes it from the bile if it can't find from another source.

Water follows sodium. When the body takes some sodium from the bile,

some of the water in the bile goes with it. What is left is a

thicker, more cholesterol concentrated bile. When the bile thickens

it is the medium in which gallstones can form.

One role that Bile plays in digestion is that it helps to emulsify the

fats in what we eat. Now you know why you've had problems with

digesting fats.

So, eat more sodium foods so that the body does not have to take it

from the bile. In time, as the bile returns to normal, the gallstones

will dissolve. When bile production improves, include some fats in

your diet so that you use the bile that's being produced. Healthy

fats. The body needs them too.

All the best,

Jim

If you can's find a list of sodium foods I've got a list of the foods

that Bernard Jensen recommended in the article on Sodium at

http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/Soapbox/mainpage.php3

>

> Hi,

> Recently I had an ultrasound of my pelvis.

> My doctor was mostly checking for fibroids.

> The report stated that I have multiple gallstones in the gallbladder.

>

> This took my a little by surprise as I have a very low fat diet due

to trying to keep

> my weight down and because I have difficulty digesting fats.

> No gallstones were reported on my last two ultrasounds.

>

> I asked my doctor what should I do and he said nothing.

> I asked him if the gallstones could be the reason that often I

experience severe nausea,gas,chills and cramps.

> He said no.That the main symptom caused by gallstones is severe pain

under the ribs and to the right side.

> He said if this happened often then I'd want to look into surgery.

>

> What do others do about gallstones?Should I do anything?

> I am always very tender on my upper right side.

> My grandmother had her gallbladder removed when she was in her late

50's.

>

>

> Best

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Of patients with cholecystitis (gallbladder disease), females

predominate; 3 of 4 will be female. I was told by the best

gastroenterologist in the world (my former gp, now retired) that

cholecystitis is hereditary and there's nothing to do to " help " to

not get it or to help get it. Fatty diets have nothing to do with

it -- and either you will get it or you won't get it. It has

something to do with a thickening that happens to the lining of the

gallbladder and it's governed by genetics (but I don't understand it,

myself).

How old are you now? Age may or may not be on your side. And some

of these things do skip generations, for some odd reason.

Both of my grandmothers had gallbladder disease and had their

gallbladders out. Neither of my parents had it. My brother's

gallbladder ruptured and became gangrenous and then he was rushed to

surgery. I've had chronic and acute attacks on and off for the last

12 or 15 years, beginning in my early-mid 40s. Between my

grandmothers, brother, and I...well, that's your statistical " 3 of 4

are women. "

I have no health insurance and cannot afford this surgery -- or any

other, for that matter. If I could have afforded it, I would have

had the surgery. Now that I'm older and the attacks have slowed up,

I probably will not. I began by having chronic attacks in the 90s

and then went to acute attacks every six months to a year. I was

very surprised to have an acute attack this past year, 2005. The

previous one I'd had was in Sept 2002 and I thought I was finally

done with them forever. I have read reports of cholecystitis

lessening and seemingly disappearing when people get into their 50s

and I'd hoped that was what was happening to me. An advantage of age?

Acute attacks are not only felt on the right side or below the ribs.

Mine grab me right in the middle of the chest, under the base of the

breastbone, and this is another common site but is little reported.

You can also have pain in the middle of the back, up toward the top,

over the shoulder blades. Recently I've had this kind of pain for

this, and it seems quite odd, as I'm almost " used to " the terrible

breastbone pain. And now that I've had it for all these years, too,

I know that it's not a heart attack and I won't die (unless it

ruptures and I still stay away from an ER).

The first acute attack is quite terrifying and may make you think you

are having a heart attack. They're extremely painful -- on a scale

of 0 to 10, I'd say about a 12 or 13, maybe more. Acute attacks can

last for a full day or so until the stone(s) is passed. Chronic can

last on and off (mostly on) for days, weeks, or months, and it

resembles the sensations had with the flu. Not " comfortable " either

but usually not painful like acute, in my experience. Your

description of " severe nausea,gas,chills and cramps " fits with my

experience of chronic cholecystitis (but not acute).

I've read of autopies on people who show that they are " full of

stones " but yet the person never had any symptoms throughout life.

So, a frightening looking sonograph is not the " last word " on this.

Also, I've read of people who do have the surgery but for some reason

continue to have chronic symptoms.

Offhand, I'd say your best bet is to cross your fingers and hope you

never have an acute attack (but it sounds to me like you might be

having chronic now). I would imagine that your doctor might tell

you, though, to head for the ER when you have your first acute. If

and when you do have a first acute, it would be helpful to you if you

were not alone and if you had someone else available to take you to

the hospital.

I hope this never happens to you at all, however. But it's good to

know all you can ahead of time.

Hope this helps.

Champaign IL

>

> Hi,

> Recently I had an ultrasound of my pelvis.

> My doctor was mostly checking for fibroids.

> The report stated that I have multiple gallstones in the

gallbladder.

>

> This took my a little by surprise as I have a very low fat diet

due to trying to keep

> my weight down and because I have difficulty digesting fats.

> No gallstones were reported on my last two ultrasounds.

>

> I asked my doctor what should I do and he said nothing.

> I asked him if the gallstones could be the reason that often I

experience severe nausea,gas,chills and cramps.

> He said no.That the main symptom caused by gallstones is severe

pain under the ribs and to the right side.

> He said if this happened often then I'd want to look into surgery.

>

> What do others do about gallstones?Should I do anything?

> I am always very tender on my upper right side.

> My grandmother had her gallbladder removed when she was in her late

50's.

>

>

> Best

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this info Jim,

I had 's problems for about two years. I wish to share my story. I

developed some pain at my gall bladder area. Pain increased in time and came

to the severe level.I had no energy for hospital visit and I also did not

want to have an operation thinking that my body could not handle it. At this

point I feel better. Here is what I had done.

ensuring normal bowel movements

coffee enemas

taking ox bile and pancreatin.

Cleaning my intestines completely from time to time.

simple liver flush only twice.

castor oilpacks on liver gall bladder area from time to time.

lately added acidophilus to help with digestion.

Doing vegetable juice which always contained beets at least every other day.

I can say that castor oil packs may be of immediate relief. Liver flush also

helps for short term relief though it was very difficult for me to do it.

Thanks God it got better now although not completely well.

best wishes

nil

Re: gallstones

>

> Include more sodium foods in your diet. A google search should

> provide you a list of good food sources for the mineral. I'm not

> suggesting you take more table salt, but more sodium foods.

>

> A primary salt in bile is sodium salts. When the body needs sodium it

> takes it from the bile if it can't find from another source.

>

> Water follows sodium. When the body takes some sodium from the bile,

> some of the water in the bile goes with it. What is left is a

> thicker, more cholesterol concentrated bile. When the bile thickens

> it is the medium in which gallstones can form.

>

> One role that Bile plays in digestion is that it helps to emulsify the

> fats in what we eat. Now you know why you've had problems with

> digesting fats.

>

> So, eat more sodium foods so that the body does not have to take it

> from the bile. In time, as the bile returns to normal, the gallstones

> will dissolve. When bile production improves, include some fats in

> your diet so that you use the bile that's being produced. Healthy

> fats. The body needs them too.

>

> All the best,

> Jim

>

[Guest guest]

I have had gallstones for 10 years now. My MD wanted me to have my

gallbladder out because they are so large. I didn't. Many people have them and

never

know they did, until they die and have an autopsy. Ice cream can make mine act

up. Your symptoms Can be caused by yours. I'm surprised your MD said No. They

say it's a nothing surgery, but many people have a lifetime of diarrhea

afterwards. Have you had your liver enzymes checked? I would check to make sure

they

are not elevated. If they are , and are for a long time, that is a good reason

to have it out, if taking milk thistle doesn't solve that problem. If you have

constant discomfort, it is better to have it out here, in the US, than

someday while you are in a vacation out of the US, and are taken in as an

emergency.

Surgery is tough on the body, especially when you have CFS, so you have to

weigh the pros and cons.

Carol in NY

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

I see you've already gotten several responses to your post on

gallstones. I will just add that in conventional medicine in the

U.S., the " standard of care " is also not to treat silent gallstones

(those without symptoms). Carol is correct in saying, though, that

your nausea and bloating can be symptoms produced by gallstones.

It's not fun if one or more of the gallstones moves out into the

bile duct and plugs it, or if the gallbladder ruptures. Usually

there is enough warning about these things that surgery can be done.

Most commonly now in the U.S., the surgery to remove the gallbladder

is laparoscopic, usually with only one night in the hospital.

The lithotripter (an ultrasonic device that explodes stones) has

been used for gallstones, but it is less commonly used now, because

it doesn't work well for stones of certain sizes and usually a

person who has gallstones will get them again if this method is used.

There are drugs to shrink gallstones, but they may take a few years

to do the job.

There are also natural remedies to shrink gallstones. The theory

behind them is as follows: Gallstones usually form when there is

too much cholesterol in the bile in relation to bile salts and

lecithin. So the natural remedies work to decrease cholesterol and

increase bile salts and lecithin in the bile. This can cause the

gallstones to dissolve over time. If you want more information

about them, let me know. I have a copy of Drs. Murray's and

Pizzorno's Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine that gives the

details.

Rich

>

> Hi,

> Recently I had an ultrasound of my pelvis.

> My doctor was mostly checking for fibroids.

> The report stated that I have multiple gallstones in the

gallbladder.

>

> This took my a little by surprise as I have a very low fat diet

due to trying to keep

> my weight down and because I have difficulty digesting fats.

> No gallstones were reported on my last two ultrasounds.

>

> I asked my doctor what should I do and he said nothing.

> I asked him if the gallstones could be the reason that often I

experience severe nausea,gas,chills and cramps.

> He said no.That the main symptom caused by gallstones is severe

pain under the ribs and to the right side.

> He said if this happened often then I'd want to look into surgery.

>

> What do others do about gallstones?Should I do anything?

> I am always very tender on my upper right side.

> My grandmother had her gallbladder removed when she was in her

late 50's.

>

>

> Best

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Rich,

Oh my it sounds possible that I might be a gallstone time bomb.

How can I prevent gallstones from moving into my bile duct?

Gallbladder rupturing.Why would this occur?

How can I tell if my symptoms are caused by my gallstones?

Please yes, Rich more information.

My cholesterol levels are within normal range.

As I mentioned I'm already on a low fat diet.

The only thing I've changed since my last ultrasound(2 years ago)is that I

eat a little red meat(always lean).

I'm very concerned about the idea of any kind of surgery as my health is so

poor.I fear a general anaesthetic.

Carol as much as I would love to I'm not expecting to do much travelling.

Although I'm half planning a trip to Italy this year.I don't think I'm up

for it physically.

I live in Australia so for me such a trip would be the equivalent of the

early settlers who first came here.

cheers

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

Sorry to rattle your cage so hard! Time bomb, huh? That sounds

pretty ominous. It is a good idea to think about your gallbladder

some, though, given the collection of stones it appears to have.

You asked how to tell if your symptoms are due to the gallstones.

Here's what the latest edition of the Cecil Textbook of Medicine

says:

" The symptoms caused by gallstones are often nonspecific and include

nausea, bloating, and right upper quadrant pain. Biliary pain,

which is described as a right upper quadrant or epigastric pain

occurring 15 to 30 minutes after a meal, often with radiation to the

back, is unpredictable, severe, and usually constant rather than a

true colic. The pain persists for three to four hours and may be

associated with nausea and vomiting. In uncomplicated cholecystitis

[inflammation of the gall bladder], fever and leukocytosis [high

white blood cell count] are absent, the pain usually can be treated

with a single dose of narcotic analgesics or nonsteroidal anti-

inflammatory agents (NSAIDs), and the pain usually subsides within

six hours. Attacks of colic may be separated by days or months.

" Asymptomatic gallstones, which are frequently diagnosed by

ultrasound performed for other indications, comprise about 85% of

gallstones. Patients with asymptomatic stones have a similar

incidence of nonspecific symptoms of nausea and bloating as the

general population and rarely develop complications of gallstone

disease. Biliary colic, however, is more predictive of gallstones,

and it is an indicator of an increased risk of cholecystitis or

other complications. Obesity, lack of exercise, female gender, and

estrogen use may all lead to more symptomatic gallstones. Because

the current standard of care is to treat only symptomatic stones, it

is critically important to determine whether any symptoms are

related to gallbladder stones. "

Here's what the latest edtion of on's Principles of Internal

Medicine says:

" Gallstones usually produce symptoms by causing inflammation or

obstruction following their migration into the cystic duct or common

bile duct. The most specific and characteristic symptom of

gallstone disease is biliary colic. Obstruction of the cystic duct

or common bile duct by a stone produces increased intraluminal

pressure and distention of the viscus that cannot be relieved by

repetitive biliary contractions. The resultant visceral pain is

characteristically a severe, steady ache or fullness in the

epigastrium or right upper quadrant of the abdomen with frequent

radiation to the interscapular area [middle of the back], right

scapula [shoulder blade], or shoulder.

" Biliary colic begins quite suddenly and may persist with severe

intensity for 30 minutes to 5 hours, subsiding gradually or

rapidly. It is steady rather than intermittent, as would be

suggested by the word colic, which must be regarded as a misnomer,

although in widespread use. An episode of biliary pain persisting

beyond five hours should raise the suspicion of acute

cholecystitis. Nausea and vomiting frequently accompany episodes of

biliary pain. An elevated level of serum bilirubin and/or alkaline

phosphatase suggests a common duct stone. Fevor or chills (rigors)

with biliary pain usually imply a complication, i.e. cholecystitis,

pancreatitis, or cholangitis. Complaints of vague epigastric

fullness, dyspepsia [upset stomach], eructation [burping], or

flatulence [lower gas], especially following a fatty meal, should

not be confused with biliary pain. Such symptoms are frequently

elicited from patients with or without gallstone disease but are not

specific for biliary calculi [bile stones]. Biliary colic may be

precipitated by eating a fatty meal, by consumption of a large meal

following a period of prolonged fasting, or by eating a normal meal;

it is frequently nocturnal. "

If you do develop this terrible pain, here's a way to get relief

from it, based on Balch and Balch, Prescription for Nutritional

Healing, third edition (2000), p. 390:

" If you have an attack, drink 1 tablespoon of apple cider in a glass

of apple juice. This should relieve the pain quickly. "

You asked how to keep the gallstones from moving out into the common

bile duct and blocking it. The main thing that causes gallstones to

move out of the gall bladder is consumption of foods with a lot of

fats or oils in them. When the fats or oils enter the duodenum from

the stomach, there are cells there that detect it and send out a

hormone into the blood called cholecystokinin. This hormone gets to

the gallbladder and causes the gallbladder to squeeze out bile. If

there are stones present, and the gallbladder gives a hard squeeze

because of a big pulse of cholecystokinin, the gallstones are more

likely to move out of the gall bladder and into the bile duct. So

avoiding foods with a lot of fat or oils would be a good idea.

You asked about rupturing of the gall bladder. This is pretty

unusual, but if the cystic duct (that's the single duct connecting

the gall bladder to the common bile duct) gets blocked by a stone,

the gall bladder can become inflamed (cholecystitis). This usually

involves quite a bit of pain, so you will know about it if it

happens. Sometimes the stone moves out and the gall bladder calms

down again. Sometimes it doesn't. If you start to experience major

pain in the upper right quadrant of your abdomen, it's time to get

the doctors interested in doing something about it, like taking out

your gallbladder before it pops.

Here's the advice about treating gallstones from the Encyclopedia of

Natural Medicine, Revised 2nd edition, by Murray and

Pizzorno (1998), pp. 483-4:

" Once gallstones have developed, measures to avoid gallbladder

attacks and increase the solubility of the bile are necessary. To

limit the incidence of symptoms, allergenic foods must be

determined, and, along with fatty foods, avoided. The solubility of

the bile can be increased by following the dietary guidelines and

utilizing the nutritional and herbal supplements recommended below.

Diet

Increase intake of vegetables, fruits, and dietary fiber, especially

the gel-forming or mucilaginous fibers (flaxseed, oat bran, guar

gum, pectin, etc.). Reduce consumption of saturated fats,

cholesterol, sugar, and animal proteins. Avoid all fried foods.

Water

Drink six to eight glasses of water each day to maintain the water

content of bile.

Nutritional Supplements

Vitamin C: 500 to 1,000 mg three times daily

Vitamin E: 200-400 IU per day

Phosphatidylcholine (lecithin): 100 mg three times per day

Choline: 1,000 mg per day

L-Methionine: 1,000 mg per day

Fiber supplement (guar gum, pectin, psyllium, or oat bran): minimum

of 5 grams per day

Bile acids (combination of ursodeoxycholic and chenodeoxycholic

acid): 1,000-1,500 mg per day

Botanical Medicines

Dosages are three times per day. Choose one. They are listed in

order of effectiveness.

1. Gallstone-dissolving formula (dosage: one to three times per

day, best if used in combination with ursodeoxycholic acid)

Menthol: 30 mg

Menthone: 5 mg

Pinene: 15 mg

Borneol: 5 mg

Camphene: 5 mg

Cineole: 2 mg

Citral: 5 mg

(Note: Peppermint oil in an enteric-coated capsule can be used

instead of the gallstone-dissolving formula, at a dosage of 1-2

capsules (0.2 ml/capsule) three times per day between meals.

2. Silybum marianum

The dosage is based upon the level of silymarin: 70-210 mg of

silymarin

3. Cynara scolymus

Extract (15% cynarin): 500 mg

4. Peumus boldo

Dried leaves (or by infusion):

250-500 mg

Tincture (1:10): 2-4 ml

Fluid extract (1:1): 0.5-1.0 ml

5. Curcuma longa

Curcumin: 100-200 mg three times per day

6. Dandelion (Taraxicum officinale)

Dried root: 4 g

Fluid extract (1:1): 4-8 ml

Solid extract (4:1): 250-500 mg

Hope this helps. At least you know a little more about these " time

bombs. " I hope yours just keeps ticking quietly until you can make

it go away.

Rich

>

>

> Thanks Rich,

> Oh my it sounds possible that I might be a gallstone time bomb.

> How can I prevent gallstones from moving into my bile duct?

> Gallbladder rupturing.Why would this occur?

>

> How can I tell if my symptoms are caused by my gallstones?

>

> Please yes, Rich more information.

> My cholesterol levels are within normal range.

> As I mentioned I'm already on a low fat diet.

> The only thing I've changed since my last ultrasound(2 years ago)

is that I

> eat a little red meat(always lean).

>

> I'm very concerned about the idea of any kind of surgery as my

health is so

> poor.I fear a general anaesthetic.

> Carol as much as I would love to I'm not expecting to do much

travelling.

> Although I'm half planning a trip to Italy this year.I don't think

I'm up

> for it physically.

> I live in Australia so for me such a trip would be the equivalent

of the

> early settlers who first came here.

>

> cheers

>

[Guest guest]

I think it important to know exactly what you are dealing with. Have

you had an ultra sound? If your stones are small they can likely be

flushed. My stone was the size of an egg and calcfied and no one would

even consider helping me try to flush it. I also did not want surgery

as I think all our organs necessary, but I'm glad that I had it. They

did find that the gallbladder itself was diseased and had ruptured.

Likely I would have been in worse straights had I insisted on keeping

it (the GB). If you haven't had a recent Ultra Sound you might want

to, to ease your mind, if nothing else. All the best.

ev

[Guest guest]

Thanks ev,

I've had an ultrasound.I only have the report which said I have

gallstones(plural).I guess when you get them

it's usually more than one.

My doctor did not seem concerned.Perhaps if they were of a larger size the

report would have stated this.

I will pick up the actual ultrasound today.

If yours was the size of an egg,Can I assume this they can grow?

Did you have obvious gallstones symptoms?Did you have attack after eating

certain foods?

I'm glad the surgery worked out for you.I'm sure is wasn't an easy decision.

As for flushing them out.I've heard about the olive oil,apple cider

flush.Don't know a lot about it.

It really concerns me as I think the cocktail alone would make me feel very

ill.

I'd be concerned that the gallstones could move into the bile duct.

cheers

>I think it important to know exactly what you are dealing with. Have

> you had an ultra sound? If your stones are small they can likely be

> flushed. My stone was the size of an egg and calcfied and no one would

> even consider helping me try to flush it. I also did not want surgery

> as I think all our organs necessary, but I'm glad that I had it. They

> did find that the gallbladder itself was diseased and had ruptured.

> Likely I would have been in worse straights had I insisted on keeping

> it (the GB). If you haven't had a recent Ultra Sound you might want

> to, to ease your mind, if nothing else. All the best.

>

> ev