Re: ABA/MFE

May 21, 2006

In a message dated 5/21/2006 10:02:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmaher1969@... writes:

Roxanne,

All excellent advice. I agree, there are ABAists who will insist on telling parents that you must use "good ABA" or else it's worthless. I think they try to scare parents into thinking that they can't do a program themselves. We ran our own program several years ago, but stopped once we were no longer able to teach the things our son needed. I think it isn't rocket science and parents need to know that they often already have the talents needed to do "good ABA" it doesn't require a degree in behavioral psychology. I have used the Cahterine Maurice book and found it to be a valuable resource. I intend to use it as a resource for our center. I also intend to hold workshops to show parents how they do this on their own if they can and have to. But, we do need a good consultant and so far, there are none to be had in this area. Clev Clinic is ridiculously expensive as I recall, but I have one candidate from PA who is willing to help out.

This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and other times I feel like I'm way over my head!

I really like your plans. If I hear of anyone, I will let you know. You might check out the http://www.woodallkids.org/ and see if they can help collaborate but I bet having one close by would be more beneficial.

I know many parents are intimidated by ABA. And it's very simple and basic. Once you start, you can see that. It is often getting started that is stressful. Now I find it more tedious work than anything else. At times when the little guy I work with just isn't getting it, I can want to quit! lol. But there are many times he is learning so much and that makes it worthwhile.

I love the ideas for workshops. If you start scheduling, I can advertise things in my local autism group - ASK. We are going to try to find an ABA person to speak at a meeting this year so if I run into anyone interesting, I will let you know. And if you find someone, let me know if they might be interested in sharing at a meeting here in Medina.

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens

May 21, 2006

In a message dated 5/21/2006 5:46:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmaher1969@... writes:

I can only speak about my child. The question isn't whether he would necessarily benefit from DTT. The question is would he get the more benefit faster doing something else. My son WILL NOT sit and do flashcards or any other kind of work with me at a table he is distracted and crabby. I have found other things that are effective that doesn't leave us both in tears. I don't want learning to feel like a punishment. I want him to enjoy doing it. I

t's like me on a treadmill....not gonna happen for very long. But I LOVE to go for walks in the park. I'm still getting the exercise, I just happen to enjoy the park more.

People always do think it's sitting at a table doing flashcards for hours at a time. I think the trick is finding ways to make it fun and interesting. But also I think we should not make everything in life fun because some stuff is just boring and we learn it anyway. This goes for anyone in life (especially if you took biology in high school...snoooooooooze...)

We didn't use a table with my ds - we sat in the middle of the floor on a rug and played games, did flashcards to be sure, and also walked around the house - anything that promoted the end result. For example, we did a trial of "loud/quiet" and this was not a sit-at-a-desk kind of activity. Instead, we went through the house finding anything to demonstrate loud/quiet with. Pans in the kitched, shoes in the entry, etc. At school, they made game boards with cards that had WH questions on them that he was working on. He would have to draw a card and answer the question to go forward (question might be, "What does a fireman do?" or similar.) One game board sufficed for any WH series we were working on. Just change the question cards.

For behavior issues, we did those all through the day in the situation they occurred. I spent one entire summer with fish crackers in my pockets every time we hit the store. My ds was a stripper. lol. So it was constant praise and reward for staying dressed and fade out the reward to praise. And today he wears clothes outside of the house - more or less. lol.

OTOH, my son is easier to keep in a reasonable learning state than others might be. The friend I work with now - we sit at a table in a room, he is really distractable. He is definitely a really smart kid but it is really hard for him to focus and remember. He works better and knows the rules when we are at the table vs. somewhere else. We run around to do household items or jump or any other motor skill is on the list. We use flashcards but also kids books and papers we make up ourselves. I think as he progresses, we will be able to loosen up more. I really believe the idea of ABA is to move away from the table because ultimately, we want to generalize the skill to real life. Some kids do really need the quiet and discipline of a table setting - especially in the beginning of learning a new skill. And frankly, that's what we do with all our kids in school - sit at the desk, listen and be prepared to learn. We are just educating about life, daily, language skills instead of math. I think if you use your imagination combined with discipline and a curriculum with goals, you can make it work for most kids.

I'm not an ABA expert at all. And I agree that if you want to learn more about something, please check into it! Like anything else out there, we need to always take care in what information we buy into. I sometimes get in trouble for saying that but it's true!

Roxanna ô¿ôDon't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

May 21, 2006

ABA isn't rocket science, but it can be deceptively simplistic.

Here is a cite that offers care givers/parents a course on ABA with

specific programs for different types of problems. I do not know

anyoone who has taken the course as of yet, but knowledge is

potential power; so if you're interested in learning some ABA

principles and practices with some corrective feedback this might be

of use. http://www.aba4autism.com/online.html

On a closing note ABA has a definition that is the most cited

article in ABA. To be ABA it must be " Obviously, the

study must be applied; behavioral, and analytic;

in addition, it should be technological,

conceptually systematic, and effective, and it

should display some generality. " (Baer, Wolf, & Risley; 1968)

http://seab.envmed.rochester.edu/jaba/articles/1968/jaba-01-01-

0091.pdf If people are doing learning principles without doing all

the above they are not doing ABA. People too often confuse some

partial principles and practices with the science. Just because you

have some flour, apples, butter, sugar, etc., etc., does not mean

you have an apple pie in front of you.

>

> In a message dated 5/21/2006 10:02:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> rmaher1969@... writes:

>

> Roxanne,

> All excellent advice. I agree, there are ABAists who will

insist on

> telling parents that you must use " good ABA " or else it's

worthless. I think they

> try to scare parents into thinking that they can't do a program

themselves.

> We ran our own program several years ago, but stopped once we

were no longer

> able to teach the things our son needed. I think it isn't rocket

science

> and parents need to know that they often already have the talents

needed to do

> " good ABA " it doesn't require a degree in behavioral psychology.

I have used

> the Cahterine Maurice book and found it to be a valuable

resource. I intend

> to use it as a resource for our center. I also intend to hold

workshops to

> show parents how they do this on their own if they can and have

to. But, we

> do need a good consultant and so far, there are none to be had in

this area.

> Clev Clinic is ridiculously expensive as I recall, but I have one

candidate

> from PA who is willing to help out.

>

> This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and

other times I

> feel like I'm way over my head!

>

> I really like your plans. If I hear of anyone, I will let you

know. You

> might check out the _http://www.woodallkids.org/_

> (http://www.lhttp://www.woodallkids.org/)

> and see if they can help collaborate but I bet having one close

by would be

> more beneficial.

>

> I know many parents are intimidated by ABA. And it's very simple

and basic.

> Once you start, you can see that. It is often getting started

that is

> stressful. Now I find it more tedious work than anything else.

At times when

> the little guy I work with just isn't getting it, I can want to

quit! lol.

> But there are many times he is learning so much and that makes it

worthwhile.

>

> I love the ideas for workshops. If you start scheduling, I can

advertise

> things in my local autism group - ASK. We are going to try to

find an ABA

> person to speak at a meeting this year so if I run into anyone

interesting, I

> will let you know. And if you find someone, let me know if they

might be

> interested in sharing at a meeting here in Medina.

>

> Roxanna ô¿ö

> Autism Happens

>

May 21, 2006

To be the devil's advocate...ABAist do and should tell parents you

have to use " good ABA " and while less than ABA/good ABA is not

neccessarily worthless, it can be damaging. An example, it's not

uncommon for some children on the spectrum to have issues with

pronoun reveral, i.e. I, me, you, et. al. Say you are working on a

name program with your child and you say, " my name is mommy "

modeling a behavior and your child replys, " my name is Bobby "

(assuming that's his name) you then give behavior specific praise

and say, " good saying your name is Bobby " . Is this correct or

incorrect? Incorrect. You would say, " good saying 'my name is

Bobby'. The first example confuses pronoun and could create a

problem down the road. It's great to have what some call peer-

supervision. We cannot watch ourselves and it is too easy to slip

into a rut and make mistakes that any of us would make without some

outside help. Does this have to be a high paid professional? No,

but make sure that everyone has the skill set and patients. It can

be done, it's just not as easy as some make it out to be. Another

example is people saying DTT or ABA doesn't work for high

functioning kids. Very untrue. There is no scientific data in the

world to prove this and much to the contrary. What you might be

seeing is lack of a skill set to get the progressed child to emit

more behaviors. There was a time when my child was progressing so

fast with ABA that our consultant said, " do not bring anyone in here

who does not have past experience with ABA " . There is a limit to

what some people can do, even trained professionals. Some point to

Lovaas' success with DTT to the fact the kids he was working with

were high functioning to begin with! That smacks in the face of

anyone who states DTT is not for high functioning kids. We all know

everyone here means well and would not choose to sabatoge anyone's

chances so when you get advice (including from what I'm saying here)

find peer-reviewed material from a reputable source and even a

replication study validating the initial study to verify what you've

been told...your loved one and you deserve no less.

--- In , " rmaher1969@... " <rmaher1969@...>

wrote:

>

> Roxanne,

> All excellent advice. I agree, there are ABAists who will

insist on telling parents that you must use " good ABA " or else it's

worthless. I think they try to scare parents into thinking that

they can't do a program themselves. We ran our own program several

years ago, but stopped once we were no longer able to teach the

things our son needed. I think it isn't rocket science and parents

need to know that they often already have the talents needed to

do " good ABA " it doesn't require a degree in behavioral psychology.

I have used the Cahterine Maurice book and found it to be a valuable

resource. I intend to use it as a resource for our center. I also

intend to hold workshops to show parents how they do this on their

own if they can and have to. But, we do need a good consultant and

so far, there are none to be had in this area. Clev Clinic is

ridiculously expensive as I recall, but I have one candidate from PA

who is willing to help out.

>

> This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and

other times I feel like I'm way over my head!

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From:

>

> Sent: 5/20/2006 4:55:29 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] ABA/MFE

>

> In a message dated 5/20/2006 2:54:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

marottafamily@... writes:

> So Roxanne, the big question is did you have an ABA consultant and

if so, who was it? I'm ready to get a second mortgage for a

consultant who knows what they are doing. Chris

> I did have one. She is not doing it anymore. I heard she was

hired to work in a school system. She would work with me - if we

didn't have the money, we could schedule less appt's. She was with

the Columbus children's hospital but she lived up here. Now I've

heard her replacement is not so easy with regard to money issues.

You " have " to have X number of visits, etc. I know Cleveland Clinic

runs a home program but it is probably expensive as well - however,

probably good people who know what they are doing.

>

> If you are interested, I would steer you towards this other place -

http://www.woodallkids.org/ THis is who my friend is using. As I

said, no hand holding. Which could be a big problem if you are not

someone who can do this without having total directions. But it

isn't hard - not rocket science - either! So check them out. They

come here sometimes and you can try to get on their list. They do

eval's and set you up. free. And I believe you can email them with

questions after that. I am an ABA tutor for my friend and work with

her 4 yo now. I have to say, we are doing very well and my friend

runs everything herself.

>

> You should also buy the book, " Behavioral Interventions for Young

Children with Autism. " It has everything you will need in it. It

has an outline you use for picking programs (A beginning,

intermediate and advanced curriculum) and it also details how to do

each one so you know what it's all about. I'd loan you mine but

someone used it and now it's in pieces. I can send you the

curriculum guide if you want to see it. Just let me know.

>

> There are also a number of links on the website I keep for our

local autism group if you want to read more about ABA -->

http://www.askaboutautism.org/Abalinkpage.html

>

> Also, if you are interested in using the woodall foundation, there

is a parent mentor in Brunswick that you can contact for more

information --> beckyl1113@...

>

> And if you have any questions, just yell.

>

> Roxanna ô¿ô

> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

>

> *note:

> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to

include the s in groups. Here is the complete address:

> ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

> is a networking and support group

> of " Parent to Parent for Autism " .

> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html

>

May 21, 2006

In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ladyshrink111@... writes:

Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations about it, makes for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I much prefer Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when awake, totally participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me, but may be a function of where the child is.

I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way over my head with this stuff.

School people warned me that my ds would be a "robot" if I did ABA with him. the thing is, being autistic is what causes the stilted speech. Trying to do new things that do not come naturally causes "robotic" looking behaviors. And in addition, having usable speech was, at the time, much preferrable to nothing, which is what we had. His echolalia is "robotic" in nature but it was before we started ABA as well - it is the nature of the beast, IMO. And after a year in the school program, he had not progressed at all. How natural looking was he as he wandered around the room not participating in anything with anyone? lol. So I didn't let that stop me. Further, any good ABA program will emphasize generalization. And you also have to have people who will not do the same things, the same way, the same order each time. Mix it up. Make it interesting. Once my ds would get something, we would mix it up and make it challenging but attainable. Problem would arise when people just went through the motions - like one teacher would ask him the same questions, right down the list. And he had the answers memorized so much so that he answered them all in one big word. This prompted the school to say that ABA was "too easy" for him and he was bored. duh. lol. But I think as you go, you think of ideas and ways to make it suit the child - going faster and slower as necessary. Some kids really need a lot of repetition, others need a lot of variety. Some need both. We do different things differently with my friend than I had done with my ds. But it is what suits him better.

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens

May 21, 2006

<< An example, it's not uncommon for some children on the spectrum to have issues with pronoun reveral, i.e. I, me, you, et. al. Say you are working on a name program with your child and you say, "my name is mommy" modeling a behavior and your child replys, "my name is Bobby" (assuming that's his name) you then give behavior specific praise and say, "good saying your name is Bobby". Is this correct or incorrect? Incorrect. You would say, "good saying 'my name is Bobby'.>>

This approach too proved to be a problem with our son. His reply; when asked "What is your name?" (resp.) "Saying my name is Bobby"

The point I was trying to make about "good ABA" was that many professionals think that "good ABA" can only come from a professional. Maurice's book covers all of these issues and for any parent willing to learn, the information is out there, Many therapists will behave as they have some kind of "trade secret" on how to do ABA. Parents are often better to know how to emit appropriate responses from our kids b/c we do it all day. Simply trying to find out what he wants to drink, is a form of aba. Sure, not in the purest form, I don't keep his response data on the frig and note his response, but loosely based. I just don't want parents to feel paralyzed to do NOTHING if they can't find or afford a therapist or consultant.

<< Another example is people saying DTT or ABA doesn't work for high functioning kids. Very untrue. There is no scientific data in the world to prove this and much to the contrary. >>

I can only speak about my child. The question isn't whether he would necessarily benefit from DTT. The question is would he get the more benefit faster doing something else. My son WILL NOT sit and do flashcards or any other kind of work with me at a table he is distracted and crabby. I have found other things that are effective that doesn't leave us both in tears. I don't want learning to feel like a punishment. I want him to enjoy doing it. I

t's like me on a treadmill....not gonna happen for very long. But I LOVE to go for walks in the park. I'm still getting the exercise, I just happen to enjoy the park more.

----- Original Message -----

From: smdscott141

Sent: 5/21/2006 2:45:44 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: ABA/MFE

To be the devil's advocate...ABAist do and should tell parents you have to use "good ABA" and while less than ABA/good ABA is not neccessarily worthless, it can be damaging. An example, it's not uncommon for some children on the spectrum to have issues with pronoun reveral, i.e. I, me, you, et. al. Say you are working on a name program with your child and you say, "my name is mommy" modeling a behavior and your child replys, "my name is Bobby" (assuming that's his name) you then give behavior specific praise and say, "good saying your name is Bobby". Is this correct or incorrect? Incorrect. You would say, "good saying 'my name is Bobby'. The first example confuses pronoun and could create a problem down the road. It's great to have what some call peer-supervision. We cannot watch ourselves and it is too easy to slip into a rut and make mistakes that any of us would make without some outside help. Does this have to be a high paid professional? No, but make sure that everyone has the skill set and patients. It can be done, it's just not as easy as some make it out to be. Another example is people saying DTT or ABA doesn't work for high functioning kids. Very untrue. There is no scientific data in the world to prove this and much to the contrary. What you might be seeing is lack of a skill set to get the progressed child to emit more behaviors. There was a time when my child was progressing so fast with ABA that our consultant said, "do not bring anyone in here who does not have past experience with ABA". There is a limit to what some people can do, even trained professionals. Some point to Lovaas' success with DTT to the fact the kids he was working with were high functioning to begin with! That smacks in the face of anyone who states DTT is not for high functioning kids. We all know everyone here means well and would not choose to sabatoge anyone's chances so when you get advice (including from what I'm saying here) find peer-reviewed material from a reputable source and even a replication study validating the initial study to verify what you've been told...your loved one and you deserve no less.>> Roxanne,> All excellent advice. I agree, there are ABAists who will insist on telling parents that you must use "good ABA" or else it's worthless. I think they try to scare parents into thinking that they can't do a program themselves. We ran our own program several years ago, but stopped once we were no longer able to teach the things our son needed. I think it isn't rocket science and parents need to know that they often already have the talents needed to do "good ABA" it doesn't require a degree in behavioral psychology. I have used the Cahterine Maurice book and found it to be a valuable resource. I intend to use it as a resource for our center. I also intend to hold workshops to show parents how they do this on their own if they can and have to. But, we do need a good consultant and so far, there are none to be had in this area. Clev Clinic is ridiculously expensive as I recall, but I have one candidate from PA who is willing to help out.> > This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and other times I feel like I'm way over my head!> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Sent: 5/20/2006 4:55:29 PM > Subject: Re: [ ] ABA/MFE> > > In a message dated 5/20/2006 2:54:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, marottafamily@... writes:> So Roxanne, the big question is did you have an ABA consultant and if so, who was it? I'm ready to get a second mortgage for a consultant who knows what they are doing. Chris> I did have one. She is not doing it anymore. I heard she was hired to work in a school system. She would work with me - if we didn't have the money, we could schedule less appt's. She was with the Columbus children's hospital but she lived up here. Now I've heard her replacement is not so easy with regard to money issues. You "have" to have X number of visits, etc. I know Cleveland Clinic runs a home program but it is probably expensive as well - however, probably good people who know what they are doing. > > If you are interested, I would steer you towards this other place -http://www.woodallkids.org/ THis is who my friend is using. As I said, no hand holding. Which could be a big problem if you are not someone who can do this without having total directions. But it isn't hard - not rocket science - either! So check them out. They come here sometimes and you can try to get on their list. They do eval's and set you up. free. And I believe you can email them with questions after that. I am an ABA tutor for my friend and work with her 4 yo now. I have to say, we are doing very well and my friend runs everything herself. > > You should also buy the book, "Behavioral Interventions for Young Children with Autism." It has everything you will need in it. It has an outline you use for picking programs (A beginning, intermediate and advanced curriculum) and it also details how to do each one so you know what it's all about. I'd loan you mine but someone used it and now it's in pieces. I can send you the curriculum guide if you want to see it. Just let me know. > > There are also a number of links on the website I keep for our local autism group if you want to read more about ABA --> http://www.askaboutautism.org/Abalinkpage.html> > Also, if you are interested in using the woodall foundation, there is a parent mentor in Brunswick that you can contact for more information --> beckyl1113@... > > And if you have any questions, just yell. > > Roxanna ô¿ô> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.> > > *note:> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to include the s in groups. Here is the complete address: > ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~> is a networking and support group> of "Parent to Parent for Autism".> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html > > > >

May 22, 2006

<<<Well, I do have a couple of degrees in psychology, but behavioral psychology was my least favorite part. I agree with this assumption that parents CAN and SHOULD be taught to do the therapy themselves, if at all possible, particularly for small children.

When we realized our girl had a problem, I considered ABA, but dismissed it because, I believe, I had very outmoded ideas of what it was, i.e. constant repetition, which I thought for our girl, who was pretty HF would drive her insane or frustrate her silly.

Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations about it, makes for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I much prefer Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when awake, totally participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me, but may be a function of where the child is.

I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way over my head with this stuff.

I think it isn't rocket science and parents need to know that they often already have the talents needed to do "good ABA" it doesn't require a degree in behavioral psychology. I have used the Cahterine Maurice book and found it to be a valuable resource. I intend to use it as a resource for our center. I also intend to hold workshops to show parents how they do this on their own if they can and have to. But, we do need a good consultant and so far, there are none to be had in this area. Clev Clinic is ridiculously expensive as I recall, but I have one candidate from PA who is willing to help out.

This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and other times I feel like I'm way over my head!

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: 5/20/2006 4:55:29 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] ABA/MFE

In a message dated 5/20/2006 2:54:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, marottafamily@... writes:

So Roxanne, the big question is did you have an ABA consultant and if so, who was it? I'm ready to get a second mortgage for a consultant who knows what they are doing. Chris

I did have one. She is not doing it anymore. I heard she was hired to work in a school system. She would work with me - if we didn't have the money, we could schedule less appt's. She was with the Columbus children's hospital but she lived up here. Now I've heard her replacement is not so easy with regard to money issues. You "have" to have X number of visits, etc. I know Cleveland Clinic runs a home program but it is probably expensive as well - however, probably good people who know what they are doing.

If you are interested, I would steer you towards this other place - http://www.woodallkids.org/ THis is who my friend is using. As I said, no hand holding. Which could be a big problem if you are not someone who can do this without having total directions. But it isn't hard - not rocket science - either! So check them out. They come here sometimes and you can try to get on their list. They do eval's and set you up. free. And I believe you can email them with questions after that. I am an ABA tutor for my friend and work with her 4 yo now. I have to say, we are doing very well and my friend runs everything herself.

You should also buy the book, "Behavioral Interventions for Young Children with Autism." It has everything you will need in it. It has an outline you use for picking programs (A beginning, intermediate and advanced curriculum) and it also details how to do each one so you know what it's all about. I'd loan you mine but someone used it and now it's in pieces. I can send you the curriculum guide if you want to see it. Just let me know.

There are also a number of links on the website I keep for our local autism group if you want to read more about ABA --> http://www.askaboutautism.org/Abalinkpage.html

Also, if you are interested in using the woodall foundation, there is a parent mentor in Brunswick that you can contact for more information --> beckyl1113@...

And if you have any questions, just yell.

Roxanna ô¿ôDon't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

May 22, 2006

Not sure whose who is this thread but someone brought up a great

point. DTT is not just sitting doing flash cards. Just because so

many have seen or heard about Lovaas' DTT they think everything is

sitting in a chair, knee to knee or at a table. Lovaas does not

even profess DTT should be done as he did it and the recent

replication study that resulted in the same level of outcome did not

use aversives or other measures Lovaas used in the '80s. DTT is

discrete trial training. Discrete to mean a definite beginning and

end as to give the learner something concrete to focus on and us a

specific trial to critique. DTT is such a small part of ABA as

well. Too many people use DTT incorrectly through lack of

understanding. There are not too many people in the field today who

do not think the child should be having fun while learning, we all

learn best that way and our kids are no different. Some get this

confused with working through behaviors which we should do with all

children, NT, ASD, etc. This is why peer-supervision as well as

training are pretty crucial. Peoples differing views on well

defined scientific principles and practices here bear that out.

Caveat emptor and all that...do not rule something out because of

conjecture and hearsay. Autism is a spectrum disorder meaning there

will be variance to how our children react to any intervention but

that just gives us information on how to tweak it. We are all

pretty much doing single-case studies with our kids so get real data

and then try out the best documented interventions that are benign

and do not contribute to opportunity cost. Keep data and preface

this is what worked and didn't work for my kid but it may or may not

work for you...blah, blah, blah.....

>

> In a message dated 5/21/2006 5:46:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> rmaher1969@... writes:

>

> I can only speak about my child. The question isn't whether he

would

> necessarily benefit from DTT. The question is would he get the

more benefit

> faster doing something else. My son WILL NOT sit and do

flashcards or any other

> kind of work with me at a table he is distracted and crabby. I

have found

> other things that are effective that doesn't leave us both in

tears. I don't

> want learning to feel like a punishment. I want him to enjoy

doing it. I

> t's like me on a treadmill....not gonna happen for very long. But

I LOVE to

> go for walks in the park. I'm still getting the exercise, I just

happen to

> enjoy the park more.

>

> People always do think it's sitting at a table doing flashcards

for hours at

> a time. I think the trick is finding ways to make it fun and

interesting.

> But also I think we should not make everything in life fun

because some stuff

> is just boring and we learn it anyway. This goes for anyone in

life

> (especially if you took biology in high

school...snoooooooooze...)

>

> We didn't use a table with my ds - we sat in the middle of the

floor on a

> rug and played games, did flashcards to be sure, and also walked

around the

> house - anything that promoted the end result. For example, we

did a trial of

> " loud/quiet " and this was not a sit-at-a-desk kind of activity.

Instead, we

> went through the house finding anything to demonstrate loud/quiet

with. Pans

> in the kitched, shoes in the entry, etc. At school, they made

game boards

> with cards that had WH questions on them that he was working on.

He would have

> to draw a card and answer the question to go forward (question

might be,

> " What does a fireman do? " or similar.) One game board sufficed

for any WH

> series we were working on. Just change the question cards.

>

> For behavior issues, we did those all through the day in the

situation they

> occurred. I spent one entire summer with fish crackers in my

pockets every

> time we hit the store. My ds was a stripper. lol. So it was

constant praise

> and reward for staying dressed and fade out the reward to

praise. And today

> he wears clothes outside of the house - more or less. lol.

>

> OTOH, my son is easier to keep in a reasonable learning state than

others

> might be. The friend I work with now - we sit at a table in a

room, he is really

> distractable. He is definitely a really smart kid but it is

really hard

> for him to focus and remember. He works better and knows the

rules when we are

> at the table vs. somewhere else. We run around to do household

items or

> jump or any other motor skill is on the list. We use flashcards

but also kids

> books and papers we make up ourselves. I think as he progresses,

we will be

> able to loosen up more. I really believe the idea of ABA is to

move away from

> the table because ultimately, we want to generalize the skill to

real life.

> Some kids do really need the quiet and discipline of a table

setting -

> especially in the beginning of learning a new skill. And

frankly, that's what we

> do with all our kids in school - sit at the desk, listen and be

prepared to

> learn. We are just educating about life, daily, language skills

instead of

> math. I think if you use your imagination combined with

discipline and a

> curriculum with goals, you can make it work for most kids.

>

> I'm not an ABA expert at all. And I agree that if you want to

learn more

> about something, please check into it! Like anything else out

there, we need

> to always take care in what information we buy into. I sometimes

get in

> trouble for saying that but it's true!

>

> Roxanna ô¿ô

> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

>

May 22, 2006

In a message dated 5/21/2006 10:17:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, PCrawfo1@... writes:

I am familiar with a parent (not friends) who used/is using the Woodall foundation. She was under the impression or wanted to think that the only help her kiddo needed was the 4 hours a week a tutor worked with him. She was also left with the impression that the tutor she had hired would replace the job of a consultant. That's kind of like thinking the aide in the classroom would make a suitable substitute teacher (there's probably a reason for degrees) So without the follow through at home by herself and her husband, the lack of direction for the program, the child made no progress. Yet she never accepted the blame.

That is really awful. I have the total opposite experience with my friend who is using the woodall foundation. I am one of the ABA tutors and the boy gets 40 hours per week of ABA. The mom has done a wonderful job, gets the point and outlines and updates the program all of the time. She also takes care of her own data, graphs it and uses it to tweak the program and at school to get their interest in a real education for the child. The 40 hours are total ABA and do not include therapies such as ST or OT, which are separate.

I really do feel it depends upon the parent. If you use woodall, you have to have the ability to organize and run the program. That's the way it is set up. I think it's ok for most parents who can do this because if you have questions or needs arise, you can email and get answers. I've had a few questions and had them answered just fine and timely this way. If the parent doesn't put forth the effort and only plans on 4 hours per week, I doubt anything will be happening. How odd - did they not explain "intensive" to this parent? Did she just not get that ABA was very intensive and time consuming? I would guess she wouldn't do well with a consultant either from the sounds of it. :-/

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens

May 22, 2006

In a message dated 5/21/2006 11:09:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ladyshrink111@... writes:

Wow, now I am feeling like Roxanne did, so many more who are experts on ABA and seems that is the main focus of this group.

Sorry. It was just a good subject to spin to. I am on an ABA list and I can't seem to post or discuss without this other chick making my life miserable. So I have thrust my energies upon you all. lol. I think too much, type too fast...it's a bad bad thing...But this is a topic I can discuss! lol. When you all start discussing vitamins and such, I'll be the quiet one!

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens

May 22, 2006

In a message dated 5/21/2006 11:16:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmaher1969@... writes:

I just opened a Microsoft Word to draft a curriculum for for this summer. The headline reads: 's needs.....

Then I sat staring at the screen for ten minutes. What in the hell do I do? I am completely lost now.

The problem I'm finding is that the more educated I become on the things I need to do, the more inadequate and paralyzed I feel. Maybe I should sleep on it?

I obviously can't refer to his MFE for help. I suppose I should try to set a baseline to know where to begin. Holy Cow,

This is not so bad. I love starting with a clean slate and I often write my own kids IEPs when I can. Ok, control freak...sorta. But I hate lame goals. So...

My advice is to look on the internet for sites that discuss developmental skills, developmental milestones, etc. Look at your child's age and what his peers are doing in comparison. This gives you a wonderful point of reference. It is much nicer than trying to comprehend a poor MFE! Print up all the developmental information you have and go through it all with a pen, circling what he needs to work on. This is how I write the Present levels (PLOP). All you need to do is organize the information into subsets or sections - all the expressive language areas here, all fine motor there, etc. This is the outline for the PLOP.

The goals all come from the PLOP. Look at your sections and summarize the main needs - these are goals. Then you can outline objectives to reach the goals from there. Done. Present to TEAM. <G>

They love it when I show up with stapled copies for everyone. lol. Ok, they only pretend to love it. lol.

Anyway, there is your baseline and it becomes easier as you assemble it. Piece by piece. You can do it!

Roxanna ô¿ôDon't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

May 22, 2006

Other therapies can (and should) be used with ABA if the child

responds positively to the therapy. Therapies such as Floortime can

be combined very well with ABA methods. TEACCH can also be combined

well with ABA.

I guess we haven't noticed any type of " programmed " type behaviors

or " stilted " speech in using ABA. We have tried very hard to

generalize all skills taught in the DTT portion of our ABA program.

We teach in different parts of the house and often take programming

outside the home (library, Mcs, etc.). I have heard this

referred to as National Environment Training (NET) (a form of ABA).

We also try to incorporate drills into games and other projects (as

opposed to just doing flash card after flash card). Of course, some

skills are just easier to teach in a flash card format. We also

teach on the floor (or on the playground) as well as at a table.

If you are not comfortable with the DTT portion of ABA, I would

recommend other resources. Lynn Kern Koegel writes about Pivotal

Response Training in her book Overcoming Autism (and recently in

Pivotal Response Treatments for Autism). PRT is also considered ABA

based. I found both books very helpful (particularly Overcoming

Autism) in giving suggestions parents can use that are behaviorally

based. See http://www.polyxo.com/aba/ for more information on ABA

based programming.

Thanks.

Debbie

>

> <<<Well, I do have a couple of degrees in psychology, but

behavioral psychology was my least favorite part. I agree with this

assumption that parents CAN and SHOULD be taught to do the therapy

themselves, if at all possible, particularly for small children.

>

> When we realized our girl had a problem, I considered ABA, but

dismissed it because, I believe, I had very outmoded ideas of what it

was, i.e. constant repetition, which I thought for our girl, who was

pretty HF would drive her insane or frustrate her silly.

>

> Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations about

it, makes for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I

much prefer Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when

awake, totally participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me,

but may be a function of where the child is.

>

> I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way over

my head with this stuff.

>

> I think it isn't rocket science and parents need to know that they

often already have the talents needed to do " good ABA " it doesn't

require a degree in behavioral psychology. I have used the Cahterine

Maurice book and found it to be a valuable resource. I intend to use

it as a resource for our center. I also intend to hold workshops to

show parents how they do this on their own if they can and have to.

But, we do need a good consultant and so far, there are none to be

had in this area. Clev Clinic is ridiculously expensive as I recall,

but I have one candidate from PA who is willing to help out.

>

> This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and

other times I feel like I'm way over my head!

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From:

>

> Sent: 5/20/2006 4:55:29 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] ABA/MFE

>

> In a message dated 5/20/2006 2:54:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

marottafamily@... writes:

> So Roxanne, the big question is did you have an ABA

consultant and if so, who was it? I'm ready to get a second mortgage

for a consultant who knows what they are doing. Chris

> I did have one. She is not doing it anymore. I heard she was

hired to work in a school system. She would work with me - if we

didn't have the money, we could schedule less appt's. She was with

the Columbus children's hospital but she lived up here. Now I've

heard her replacement is not so easy with regard to money issues.

You " have " to have X number of visits, etc. I know Cleveland Clinic

runs a home program but it is probably expensive as well - however,

probably good people who know what they are doing.

>

> If you are interested, I would steer you towards this other

place - http://www.woodallkids.org/ THis is who my friend is using.

As I said, no hand holding. Which could be a big problem if you are

not someone who can do this without having total directions. But it

isn't hard - not rocket science - either! So check them out. They

come here sometimes and you can try to get on their list. They do

eval's and set you up. free. And I believe you can email them with

questions after that. I am an ABA tutor for my friend and work with

her 4 yo now. I have to say, we are doing very well and my friend

runs everything herself.

>

> You should also buy the book, " Behavioral Interventions for

Young Children with Autism. " It has everything you will need in it.

It has an outline you use for picking programs (A beginning,

intermediate and advanced curriculum) and it also details how to do

each one so you know what it's all about. I'd loan you mine but

someone used it and now it's in pieces. I can send you the

curriculum guide if you want to see it. Just let me know.

>

> There are also a number of links on the website I keep for our

local autism group if you want to read more about ABA -->

http://www.askaboutautism.org/Abalinkpage.html

>

> Also, if you are interested in using the woodall foundation,

there is a parent mentor in Brunswick that you can contact for more

information --> beckyl1113@...

>

> And if you have any questions, just yell.

>

> Roxanna ô¿ô

> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

>

> *note:

> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to

include the s in groups. Here is the complete address:

> ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

> is a networking and support group

> of " Parent to Parent for Autism " .

> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html

>

May 22, 2006

>I have found other things that are effective that doesn't leave us both in tears. I don't want learning to >feel like a punishment. I want him to enjoy doing it - You sound like a very thoughtful (and analytical) mother! ----- Original Message ----- From: rmaher1969@... Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 5:45 PMSubject: RE: [ ] Re: ABA/MFE<< An example, it's not uncommon for some children on the spectrum to have issues with pronoun reveral, i.e. I, me, you, et. al. Say you are working on a name program with your child and you say, "my name is mommy" modeling a behavior and your child replys, "my name is Bobby" (assuming that's his name) you then give behavior specific praise and say, "good saying your name is Bobby". Is this correct or incorrect? Incorrect. You would say, "good saying 'my name is Bobby'.>> This approach too proved to be a problem with our son. His reply; when asked "What is your name?" (resp.) "Saying my name is Bobby" The point I was trying to make about "good ABA" was that many professionals think that "good ABA" can only come from a professional. Maurice's book covers all of these issues and for any parent willing to learn, the information is out there, Many therapists will behave as they have some kind of "trade secret" on how to do ABA. Parents are often better to know how to emit appropriate responses from our kids b/c we do it all day. Simply trying to find out what he wants to drink, is a form of aba. Sure, not in the purest form, I don't keep his response data on the frig and note his response, but loosely based. I just don't want parents to feel paralyzed to do NOTHING if they can't find or afford a therapist or consultant. << Another example is people saying DTT or ABA doesn't work for high functioning kids. Very untrue. There is no scientific data in the world to prove this and much to the contrary. >> I can only speak about my child. The question isn't whether he would necessarily benefit from DTT. The question is would he get the more benefit faster doing something else. My son WILL NOT sit and do flashcards or any other kind of work with me at a table he is distracted and crabby. I have found other things that are effective that doesn't leave us both in tears. I don't want learning to feel like a punishment. I want him to enjoy doing it. It's like me on a treadmill....not gonna happen for very long But I LOVE to go for walks in the park. I'm still getting the exercise, I just happen to enjoy the park more. ----- Original Message ----- From: smdscott141 Sent: 5/21/2006 2:45:44 PM Subject: [ ] Re: ABA/MFETo be the devil's advocate...ABAist do and should tell parents you have to use "good ABA" and while less than ABA/good ABA is not neccessarily worthless, it can be damaging. An example, it's not uncommon for some children on the spectrum to have issues with pronoun reveral, i.e. I, me, you, et. al. Say you are working on a name program with your child and you say, "my name is mommy" modeling a behavior and your child replys, "my name is Bobby" (assuming that's his name) you then give behavior specific praise and say, "good saying your name is Bobby". Is this correct or incorrect? Incorrect. You would say, "good saying 'my name is Bobby'. The first example confuses pronoun and could create a problem down the road. It's great to have what some call peer-supervision. We cannot watch ourselves and it is too easy to slip into a rut and make mistakes that any of us would make without some outside help. Does this have to be a high paid professional? No, but make sure that everyone has the skill set and patients. It can be done, it's just not as easy as some make it out to be. Another example is people saying DTT or ABA doesn't work for high functioning kids. Very untrue. There is no scientific data in the world to prove this and much to the contrary. What you might be seeing is lack of a skill set to get the progressed child to emit more behaviors. There was a time when my child was progressing so fast with ABA that our consultant said, "do not bring anyone in here who does not have past experience with ABA". There is a limit to what some people can do, even trained professionals. Some point to Lovaas' success with DTT to the fact the kids he was working with were high functioning to begin with! That smacks in the face of anyone who states DTT is not for high functioning kids. We all know everyone here means well and would not choose to sabatoge anyone's chances so when you get advice (including from what I'm saying here) find peer-reviewed material from a reputable source and even a replication study validating the initial study to verify what you've been told...your loved one and you deserve no less.>> Roxanne,> All excellent advice. I agree, there are ABAists who will insist on telling parents that you must use "good ABA" or else it's worthless. I think they try to scare parents into thinking that they can't do a program themselves. We ran our own program several years ago, but stopped once we were no longer able to teach the things our son needed. I think it isn't rocket science and parents need to know that they often already have the talents needed to do "good ABA" it doesn't require a degree in behavioral psychology. I have used the Cahterine Maurice book and found it to be a valuable resource. I intend to use it as a resource for our center I also intend to hold workshops to show parents how they do this on their own if they can and have to. But, we do need a good consultant and so far, there are none to be had in this area. Clev Clinic is ridiculously expensive as I recall, but I have one candidate from PA who is willing to help out.> > This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and other times I feel like I'm way over my head!> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Sent: 5/20/2006 4:55:29 PM > Subject: Re: [ ] ABA/MFE> > > In a message dated 5/20/2006 2:54:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, marottafamily@... writes:> So Roxanne, the big question is did you have an ABA consultant and if so, who was it? I'm ready to get a second mortgage for a consultant who knows what they are doing. Chris> I did have one. She is not doing it anymore. I heard she was hired to work in a school system. She would work with me - if we didn't have the money, we could schedule less appt's. She was with the Columbus children's hospital but she lived up here. Now I've heard her replacement is not so easy with regard to money issues. You "have" to have X number of visits, etc. I know Cleveland Clinic runs a home program but it is probably expensive as well - however, probably good people who know what they are doing. > > If you are interested, I would steer you towards this other place -http://www.woodallkids.org/ THis is who my friend is using. As I said, no hand holding Which could be a big problem if you are not someone who can do this without having total directions. But it isn't hard - not rocket science - either! So check them out. They come here sometimes and you can try to get on their list. They do eval's and set you up. free. And I believe you can email them with questions after that. I am an ABA tutor for my friend and work with her 4 yo now. I have to say, we are doing very well and my friend runs everything herself. > > You should also buy the book, "Behavioral Interventions for Young Children with Autism." It has everything you will need in it. It has an outline you use for picking programs (A beginning, intermediate and advanced curriculum) and it also details how to do each one so you know what it's all about. I'd loan you mine but someone used it and now it's in pieces. I can send you the curriculum guide if you want to see it Just let me know. > > There are also a number of links on the website I keep for our local autism group if you want to read more about ABA --> http://www.askaboutautism.org/Abalinkpage.html> > Also, if you are interested in using the woodall foundation, there is a parent mentor in Brunswick that you can contact for more information --> beckyl1113@... > > And if you have any questions, just yell. > > Roxanna ô¿ô> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.> > > *note:> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to include the s in groups. Here is the complete address: > ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~> is a networking and support group> of "Parent to Parent for Autism"> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html > > > >

May 22, 2006

I have to agree with the consultants who say there is " good " ABA or

else it is worthless....when we started our home program via

Columbus Childrens, we had a consultant who was highly regarded...we

hired her and we fired her after three months...she would walk into

our team meetings and ask me what my goals were for my daughter for

the next 3 to 4 weeks (because I had been at a VB conference or two

and was somewhat educated with regards to a home program) Not to

seem like a snot, but when you pose that question to me, I kind of

wonder what I am paying them for, and at $155/hr I really don't want

you coming out to the house to sing koombyah to me. We had to

literally untrain my daughter on somethings because the order she

had us teaching them in was developmentally and foundationally

inappropriate, once we hired our current consultant. I have read

all of the books you have mentioned and a few more, and I've been to

at least 5 out of state workshops regarding ABA/VB: I can tell you

now that even with my knowledge base, it is still nice to have

someone from the outside be able to see, point out, and correct

problems. Our current consultant has been consulting for a heck of

a lot longer than what I have been dealing with in my 4 year

roadtrip into autism with my daughter and her insight and experience

brings a lot more to the program than just our next set of

objectives.

>Besides the consultant being a huge component of a well run

program, I think the next piece of accountability belongs to the

parents....the parent who thinks the two hours of tutoring the child

gets will be the be all, end all, is sadly mistaken. The biggest

component of the program follow through falls on the parents. If

you aren't continuously re-iterating the current goals, then the few

times your kiddo is tutored a week, isn't gonna make any difference.

I am familiar with a parent (not friends) who used/is using the

Woodall foundation. She was under the impression or wanted to think

that the only help her kiddo needed was the 4 hours a week a tutor

worked with him. She was also left with the impression that the

tutor she had hired would replace the job of a consultant. That's

kind of like thinking the aide in the classroom would make a

suitable substitute teacher (there's probably a reason for degrees)

So without the follow through at home by herself and her husband,

the lack of direction for the program, the child made no progress.

Yet she never accepted the blame. I hate to say it, but when a

parent with a kiddo with autism turns to aba, they do need some hand

holding (initially) kind of frequently...not that I am saying they

need a consultant once a week, however the biggest pitfalls occur in

the beginning of programs, when EVERYBODY, not just the kiddo is

learning, and I don't think the Woodall foundation offers those

kinds of supports.

I am very pro-ABA/VB. Not a big fan of DTT (which is kind of the

direction most of the Maurice books lead you in, as well

as the Cleveland Clinic.) I personally feel DTT works well with

severe behavioral, however it comes with it's downsides as well for

acquiring spoken language or in the very least signed) We started

our daughter in an ABA program at the age of 2 1/2 and she is 4 1/2

at present. She attends preschool, speech, ot, and pt in addition

to her current 14 hours/tutoring a week. We utilize the autism

scholarship to pay for the majority at present (we did foot the bill

for the first year and we are so buried in debt right now, I don't

even think rent-a-center would give me credit...but I would do it

all over again if I had to, hell I would even sell my body on main

street to do it if I had to (not that there would be any buyers).)

And she is doing phenomenally. She went from acting like Helen

Keller (w-a-t-e-r) in public, to being high functioning. Her

initial diagnosis at 2 1/2 was moderate to severe. We just had her

re-evaluated by the person who diagnosed her and she was blown away

by her progress.

May 22, 2006

Well said!!!

>

> In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> Ladyshrink111@... writes:

>

> Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations

about it, makes

> for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I much

prefer

> Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when awake,

totally

> participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me, but may be

a function of where

> the child is.

>

> I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way over

my head

> with this stuff.

>

> School people warned me that my ds would be a " robot " if I did ABA

with him.

> the thing is, being autistic is what causes the stilted speech.

Trying to

> do new things that do not come naturally causes " robotic " looking

behaviors.

> And in addition, having usable speech was, at the time, much

preferrable to

> nothing, which is what we had. His echolalia is " robotic " in

nature but it

> was before we started ABA as well - it is the nature of the

beast, IMO. And

> after a year in the school program, he had not progressed at

all. How natural

> looking was he as he wandered around the room not participating

in anything

> with anyone? lol. So I didn't let that stop me. Further, any

good ABA

> program will emphasize generalization. And you also have to have

people who will

> not do the same things, the same way, the same order each time.

Mix it up.

> Make it interesting. Once my ds would get something, we would

mix it up and

> make it challenging but attainable. Problem would arise when

people just

> went through the motions - like one teacher would ask him the

same questions,

> right down the list. And he had the answers memorized so much so

that he

> answered them all in one big word. This prompted the school to

say that ABA was

> " too easy " for him and he was bored. duh. lol. But I think as

you go, you

> think of ideas and ways to make it suit the child - going faster

and slower

> as necessary. Some kids really need a lot of repetition, others

need a lot

> of variety. Some need both. We do different things differently

with my

> friend than I had done with my ds. But it is what suits him

better.

>

> Roxanna ô¿ö

> Autism Happens

>

> Roxanna ô¿ö

> Autism Happens

>

May 22, 2006

Patti - Wow! It is so good to hear how wonderfully your child is doing, and you should get (at least some of) the credit! (Your daughter, though, has worked very hard these past 2 years and learned a lot, and deserves praise, too.) It sounds like she has some very loving and devoted parents who don't stop learning and evaluating what is going on. Kuddos to you!! Chris----- Original Message ----- From: pcrawfo1 Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:15 PMSubject: [ ] Re: ABA/MFEI have to agree with the consultants who say there is "good" ABA or else it is worthless....when we started our home program via Columbus Childrens, we had a consultant who was highly regarded...we hired her and we fired her after three months...she would walk into our team meetings and ask me what my goals were for my daughter for the next 3 to 4 weeks (because I had been at a VB conference or two and was somewhat educated with regards to a home program) Not to seem like a snot, but when you pose that question to me, I kind of wonder what I am paying them for, and at $155/hr I really don't want you coming out to the house to sing koombyah to me. We had to literally untrain my daughter on somethings because the order she had us teaching them in was developmentally and foundationally inappropriate, once we hired our current consultant. I have read all of the books you have mentioned and a few more, and I've been to at least 5 out of state workshops regarding ABA/VB: I can tell you now that even with my knowledge base, it is still nice to have someone from the outside be able to see, point out, and correct problems. Our current consultant has been consulting for a heck of a lot longer than what I have been dealing with in my 4 year roadtrip into autism with my daughter and her insight and experience brings a lot more to the program than just our next set of objectives.>Besides the consultant being a huge component of a well run program, I think the next piece of accountability belongs to the parents....the parent who thinks the two hours of tutoring the child gets will be the be all, end all, is sadly mistaken. The biggest component of the program follow through falls on the parents. If you aren't continuously re-iterating the current goals, then the few times your kiddo is tutored a week, isn't gonna make any difference.I am familiar with a parent (not friends) who used/is using the Woodall foundation. She was under the impression or wanted to think that the only help her kiddo needed was the 4 hours a week a tutor worked with him. She was also left with the impression that the tutor she had hired would replace the job of a consultant. That's kind of like thinking the aide in the classroom would make a suitable substitute teacher (there's probably a reason for degrees) So without the follow through at home by herself and her husband, the lack of direction for the program, the child made no progress. Yet she never accepted the blame. I hate to say it, but when a parent with a kiddo with autism turns to aba, they do need some hand holding (initially) kind of frequently...not that I am saying they need a consultant once a week, however the biggest pitfalls occur in the beginning of programs, when EVERYBODY, not just the kiddo is learning, and I don't think the Woodall foundation offers those kinds of supports. I am very pro-ABA/VB. Not a big fan of DTT (which is kind of the direction most of the Maurice books lead you in, as well as the Cleveland Clinic.) I personally feel DTT works well with severe behavioral, however it comes with it's downsides as well for acquiring spoken language or in the very least signed) We started our daughter in an ABA program at the age of 2 1/2 and she is 4 1/2 at present. She attends preschool, speech, ot, and pt in addition to her current 14 hours/tutoring a week. We utilize the autism scholarship to pay for the majority at present (we did foot the bill for the first year and we are so buried in debt right now, I don't even think rent-a-center would give me credit...but I would do it all over again if I had to, hell I would even sell my body on main street to do it if I had to (not that there would be any buyers).) And she is doing phenomenally. She went from acting like Helen Keller (w-a-t-e-r) in public, to being high functioning. Her initial diagnosis at 2 1/2 was moderate to severe. We just had her re-evaluated by the person who diagnosed her and she was blown away by her progress.

May 22, 2006

Lynn Kern Koegels husband worked with I. Ovar Lovaas back in the day

and while he and she have more of a following in the West coast area

one might argue that PRT (pivitol response training) would be better

suited to a parents efforts while ABA is more suited to therapists.

While I don't totally agree, like Debbie said PRT is behavioral,

like ABA as well as developmental and congitively based.

Lovaas cited 40 hours a week but his two collegues, Koegel and

Schreibman, were also working with these children in areas that were

not apart of the main study.

While there have been studies to show an eclectic

approach/hodge podge does the learner a disadvantage, doing a single-

case type study keeping real data can tell you what works for your

individual child.

> >

> > <<<Well, I do have a couple of degrees in psychology, but

> behavioral psychology was my least favorite part. I agree with

this

> assumption that parents CAN and SHOULD be taught to do the therapy

> themselves, if at all possible, particularly for small children.

> >

> > When we realized our girl had a problem, I considered ABA, but

> dismissed it because, I believe, I had very outmoded ideas of what

it

> was, i.e. constant repetition, which I thought for our girl, who

was

> pretty HF would drive her insane or frustrate her silly.

> >

> > Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations

about

> it, makes for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation.

I

> much prefer Floortime and did a version of that here---constant,

when

> awake, totally participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to

me,

> but may be a function of where the child is.

> >

> > I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way

over

> my head with this stuff.

> >

> > I think it isn't rocket science and parents need to know that

they

> often already have the talents needed to do " good ABA " it doesn't

> require a degree in behavioral psychology. I have used the

Cahterine

> Maurice book and found it to be a valuable resource. I intend to

use

> it as a resource for our center. I also intend to hold workshops

to

> show parents how they do this on their own if they can and have

to.

> But, we do need a good consultant and so far, there are none to be

> had in this area. Clev Clinic is ridiculously expensive as I

recall,

> but I have one candidate from PA who is willing to help out.

> >

> > This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and

> other times I feel like I'm way over my head!

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From:

> >

> > Sent: 5/20/2006 4:55:29 PM

> > Subject: Re: [ ] ABA/MFE

> >

> > In a message dated 5/20/2006 2:54:04 PM Eastern Standard

Time,

> marottafamily@ writes:

> > So Roxanne, the big question is did you have an ABA

> consultant and if so, who was it? I'm ready to get a second

mortgage

> for a consultant who knows what they are doing. Chris

> > I did have one. She is not doing it anymore. I heard she

was

> hired to work in a school system. She would work with me - if we

> didn't have the money, we could schedule less appt's. She was

with

> the Columbus children's hospital but she lived up here. Now I've

> heard her replacement is not so easy with regard to money issues.

> You " have " to have X number of visits, etc. I know Cleveland

Clinic

> runs a home program but it is probably expensive as well -

however,

> probably good people who know what they are doing.

> >

> > If you are interested, I would steer you towards this other

> place - http://www.woodallkids.org/ THis is who my friend is

using.

> As I said, no hand holding. Which could be a big problem if you

are

> not someone who can do this without having total directions. But

it

> isn't hard - not rocket science - either! So check them out.

They

> come here sometimes and you can try to get on their list. They do

> eval's and set you up. free. And I believe you can email them

with

> questions after that. I am an ABA tutor for my friend and work

with

> her 4 yo now. I have to say, we are doing very well and my friend

> runs everything herself.

> >

> > You should also buy the book, " Behavioral Interventions for

> Young Children with Autism. " It has everything you will need in

it.

> It has an outline you use for picking programs (A beginning,

> intermediate and advanced curriculum) and it also details how to

do

> each one so you know what it's all about. I'd loan you mine but

> someone used it and now it's in pieces. I can send you the

> curriculum guide if you want to see it. Just let me know.

> >

> > There are also a number of links on the website I keep for

our

> local autism group if you want to read more about ABA -->

> http://www.askaboutautism.org/Abalinkpage.html

> >

> > Also, if you are interested in using the woodall foundation,

> there is a parent mentor in Brunswick that you can contact for

more

> information --> beckyl1113@

> >

> > And if you have any questions, just yell.

> >

> > Roxanna ô¿ô

> > Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

> >

> > *note:

> > When Adding to your email address book, don't forget

to

> include the s in groups. Here is the complete address:

>

> > ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

> > is a networking and support group

> > of " Parent to Parent for Autism " .

> > Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html

> >

May 22, 2006

Your daughter is lucky to have you! So is this group, you make a

lot of good points.

>

> I have to agree with the consultants who say there is " good " ABA

or

> else it is worthless....when we started our home program via

> Columbus Childrens, we had a consultant who was highly

regarded...we

> hired her and we fired her after three months...she would walk

into

> our team meetings and ask me what my goals were for my daughter

for

> the next 3 to 4 weeks (because I had been at a VB conference or

two

> and was somewhat educated with regards to a home program) Not to

> seem like a snot, but when you pose that question to me, I kind of

> wonder what I am paying them for, and at $155/hr I really don't

want

> you coming out to the house to sing koombyah to me. We had to

> literally untrain my daughter on somethings because the order she

> had us teaching them in was developmentally and foundationally

> inappropriate, once we hired our current consultant. I have read

> all of the books you have mentioned and a few more, and I've been

to

> at least 5 out of state workshops regarding ABA/VB: I can tell

you

> now that even with my knowledge base, it is still nice to have

> someone from the outside be able to see, point out, and correct

> problems. Our current consultant has been consulting for a heck

of

> a lot longer than what I have been dealing with in my 4 year

> roadtrip into autism with my daughter and her insight and

experience

> brings a lot more to the program than just our next set of

> objectives.

> >Besides the consultant being a huge component of a well run

> program, I think the next piece of accountability belongs to the

> parents....the parent who thinks the two hours of tutoring the

child

> gets will be the be all, end all, is sadly mistaken. The biggest

> component of the program follow through falls on the parents. If

> you aren't continuously re-iterating the current goals, then the

few

> times your kiddo is tutored a week, isn't gonna make any

difference.

>

> I am familiar with a parent (not friends) who used/is using the

> Woodall foundation. She was under the impression or wanted to

think

> that the only help her kiddo needed was the 4 hours a week a tutor

> worked with him. She was also left with the impression that the

> tutor she had hired would replace the job of a consultant. That's

> kind of like thinking the aide in the classroom would make a

> suitable substitute teacher (there's probably a reason for

degrees)

> So without the follow through at home by herself and her husband,

> the lack of direction for the program, the child made no

progress.

> Yet she never accepted the blame. I hate to say it, but when a

> parent with a kiddo with autism turns to aba, they do need some

hand

> holding (initially) kind of frequently...not that I am saying they

> need a consultant once a week, however the biggest pitfalls occur

in

> the beginning of programs, when EVERYBODY, not just the kiddo is

> learning, and I don't think the Woodall foundation offers those

> kinds of supports.

>

> I am very pro-ABA/VB. Not a big fan of DTT (which is kind of the

> direction most of the Maurice books lead you in, as well

> as the Cleveland Clinic.) I personally feel DTT works well with

> severe behavioral, however it comes with it's downsides as well

for

> acquiring spoken language or in the very least signed) We started

> our daughter in an ABA program at the age of 2 1/2 and she is 4

1/2

> at present. She attends preschool, speech, ot, and pt in addition

> to her current 14 hours/tutoring a week. We utilize the autism

> scholarship to pay for the majority at present (we did foot the

bill

> for the first year and we are so buried in debt right now, I don't

> even think rent-a-center would give me credit...but I would do it

> all over again if I had to, hell I would even sell my body on main

> street to do it if I had to (not that there would be any buyers).)

> And she is doing phenomenally. She went from acting like Helen

> Keller (w-a-t-e-r) in public, to being high functioning. Her

> initial diagnosis at 2 1/2 was moderate to severe. We just had

her

> re-evaluated by the person who diagnosed her and she was blown

away

> by her progress.

>

May 22, 2006

Yes, thoughtful, but I'm feeling WAY inadequate after reading all of these posts. I'm blown away by all of you and your knowledge! Do any of you have a spare bedroom? My son and I can share a bed(we usually do anyhow) and we don't eat alot. I require coffee and he will be happy with chicken nuggets and orange juice! You can help us with his education and I'll.....paint your house, mow your lawn, walk the dog, run errands.

Seriously, I am so moved an impressed by your knowledge and experience. I want you all to know how valuable your advice is to me and my son. I have learned more today through your posts than I have in the six years since he was dx'd. It has been an eye opener, for sure! We bailed on ABA a few years ago out of ignorance, but i fully intend to revisit it and educate myself this summer. I guess I never knew what questions to ask, I didn't know what I didn't know until today

May 22, 2006

Wow, now I am feeling like Roxanne did, so many more who are experts on ABA and seems that is the main focus of this group.

----- Original Message -----

From: smdscott141

Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:20 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: ABA/MFE

Well said!!!>> > In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Ladyshrink111@... writes:> > Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations about it, makes > for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I much prefer > Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when awake, totally > participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me, but may be a function of where > the child is.> > I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way over my head > with this stuff.> > > > > > School people warned me that my ds would be a "robot" if I did ABA with him. > the thing is, being autistic is what causes the stilted speech. Trying to > do new things that do not come naturally causes "robotic" looking behaviors. > And in addition, having usable speech was, at the time, much preferrable to > nothing, which is what we had. His echolalia is "robotic" in nature but it > was before we started ABA as well - it is the nature of the beast, IMO. And > after a year in the school program, he had not progressed at all. How natural > looking was he as he wandered around the room not participating in anything > with anyone? lol. So I didn't let that stop me. Further, any good ABA > program will emphasize generalization. And you also have to have people who will > not do the same things, the same way, the same order each time. Mix it up. > Make it interesting. Once my ds would get something, we would mix it up and > make it challenging but attainable. Problem would arise when people just > went through the motions - like one teacher would ask him the same questions, > right down the list. And he had the answers memorized so much so that he > answered them all in one big word. This prompted the school to say that ABA was > "too easy" for him and he was bored. duh. lol. But I think as you go, you > think of ideas and ways to make it suit the child - going faster and slower > as necessary. Some kids really need a lot of repetition, others need a lot > of variety. Some need both. We do different things differently with my > friend than I had done with my ds. But it is what suits him better. > > > Roxanna ô¿ö> Autism Happens > > > Roxanna ô¿ö> Autism Happens>

May 22, 2006

,

I just opened a Microsoft Word to draft a curriculum for for this summer. The headline reads: 's needs.....

Then I sat staring at the screen for ten minutes. What in the hell do I do? I am completely lost now.

The problem I'm finding is that the more educated I become on the things I need to do, the more inadequate and paralyzed I feel. Maybe I should sleep on it?

I obviously can't refer to his MFE for help. I suppose I should try to set a baseline to know where to begin. Holy Cow,

----- Original Message -----

From: Cochran

Sent: 5/21/2006 11:08:43 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ABA/MFE

Wow, now I am feeling like Roxanne did, so many more who are experts on ABA and seems that is the main focus of this group.

----- Original Message -----

From: smdscott141

Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:20 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: ABA/MFE

Well said!!!>> > In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Ladyshrink111@... writes:> > Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations about it, makes > for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I much prefer > Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when awake, totally > participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me, but may be a function of where > the child is.> > I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way over my head > with this stuff.> > > > > > School people warned me that my ds would be a "robot" if I did ABA with him. > the thing is, being autistic is what causes the stilted speech. Trying to > do new things that do not come naturally causes "robotic" looking behaviors. > And in addition, having usable speech was, at the time, much preferrable to > nothing, which is what we had. His echolalia is "robotic" in nature but it > was before we started ABA as well - it is the nature of the beast, IMO. And > after a year in the school program, he had not progressed at all. How natural > looking was he as he wandered around the room not participating in anything > with anyone? lol. So I didn't let that stop me. Further, any good ABA > program will emphasize generalization. And you also have to have people who will > not do the same things, the same way, the same order each time. Mix it up. > Make it interesting. Once my ds would get something, we would mix it up and > make it challenging but attainable. Problem would arise when people just > went through the motions - like one teacher would ask him the same questions, > right down the list. And he had the answers memorized so much so that he > answered them all in one big word. This prompted the school to say that ABA was > "too easy" for him and he was bored. duh. lol. But I think as you go, you > think of ideas and ways to make it suit the child - going faster and slower > as necessary. Some kids really need a lot of repetition, others need a lot > of variety. Some need both. We do different things differently with my > friend than I had done with my ds. But it is what suits him better. > > > Roxanna ô¿ö> Autism Happens > > > Roxanna ô¿ö> Autism Happens>

May 22, 2006

None of us is as smart as all of us! The whole T.E.A.M. thing;

Together Everyone Achieves More! All of parents have been beat up

emotionally as well as financially there is no reason we should all

have to recreate the wheel. Live, learn, and pass it on...

> >

> > Roxanne,

> > All excellent advice. I agree, there are ABAists who will

> insist on telling parents that you must use " good ABA " or else

it's

> worthless. I think they try to scare parents into thinking that

> they can't do a program themselves. We ran our own program

several

> years ago, but stopped once we were no longer able to teach the

> things our son needed. I think it isn't rocket science and

parents

> need to know that they often already have the talents needed to

> do " good ABA " it doesn't require a degree in behavioral

psychology.

> I have used the Cahterine Maurice book and found it to be a

valuable

> resource. I intend to use it as a resource for our center I also

> intend to hold workshops to show parents how they do this on their

> own if they can and have to. But, we do need a good consultant and

> so far, there are none to be had in this area. Clev Clinic is

> ridiculously expensive as I recall, but I have one candidate from

PA

> who is willing to help out.

> >

> > This center isn't happening fast enough for me sometimes and

> other times I feel like I'm way over my head!

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From:

> >

> > Sent: 5/20/2006 4:55:29 PM

> > Subject: Re: [ ] ABA/MFE

> >

> > In a message dated 5/20/2006 2:54:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> marottafamily@ writes:

> > So Roxanne, the big question is did you have an ABA consultant

and

> if so, who was it? I'm ready to get a second mortgage for a

> consultant who knows what they are doing. Chris

> > I did have one. She is not doing it anymore. I heard she was

> hired to work in a school system. She would work with me - if we

> didn't have the money, we could schedule less appt's. She was

with

> the Columbus children's hospital but she lived up here. Now I've

> heard her replacement is not so easy with regard to money issues.

> You " have " to have X number of visits, etc. I know Cleveland

Clinic

> runs a home program but it is probably expensive as well -

however,

> probably good people who know what they are doing.

> >

> > If you are interested, I would steer you towards this other

place -

> http://www.woodallkids.org/ THis is who my friend is using. As I

> said, no hand holding Which could be a big problem if you are not

> someone who can do this without having total directions. But it

> isn't hard - not rocket science - either! So check them out.

They

> come here sometimes and you can try to get on their list. They do

> eval's and set you up. free. And I believe you can email them

with

> questions after that. I am an ABA tutor for my friend and work

with

> her 4 yo now. I have to say, we are doing very well and my friend

> runs everything herself.

> >

> > You should also buy the book, " Behavioral Interventions for

Young

> Children with Autism. " It has everything you will need in it. It

> has an outline you use for picking programs (A beginning,

> intermediate and advanced curriculum) and it also details how to

do

> each one so you know what it's all about. I'd loan you mine but

> someone used it and now it's in pieces. I can send you the

> curriculum guide if you want to see it Just let me know.

> >

> > There are also a number of links on the website I keep for our

> local autism group if you want to read more about ABA -->

> http://www.askaboutautism.org/Abalinkpage.html

> >

> > Also, if you are interested in using the woodall foundation,

there

> is a parent mentor in Brunswick that you can contact for more

> information --> beckyl1113@

> >

> > And if you have any questions, just yell.

> >

> > Roxanna ô¿ô

> > Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

> >

> > *note:

> > When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to

> include the s in groups. Here is the complete address:

>

> > ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

> > is a networking and support group

> > of " Parent to Parent for Autism "

> > Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html

> >

May 22, 2006

How about a map...Behaviors that are dangerous should be attacked

first like dangerous climbing, head-banging, biting, hitting,

running away from parent. Next could be: Behaviors that interfere

with learning such as lack of eye contact, lack of attending,

inability to remain seated. Then would be behaviors that are

disruptive or inappropriate like screaming, tantrums, self-

stimulation, compliance, following directions. Then on to higher-

level cognitive thinking as in discrimination, generalization. Then

social behavior like peer imitation, interaction, taking turns,

sharing, cooperative play. Then to verbal behaviors like functional

word usage, asking questions, answering questions, learning to

say " I don't know, echolalia. Then once you have a map of where you

want to go figure out how you want to get there...behaviorally,

biomedically, etc. What has proved to work for your child so far.

What does the data tell you? What are the persons working on your

childs behalf saying? What makes good, logical and natural sense to

you based on real facts and what you know about your child?

> >

> > In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> > Ladyshrink111@ writes:

> >

> > Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations

> about it, makes

> > for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I much

> prefer

> > Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when

awake,

> totally

> > participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me, but may

be

> a function of where

> > the child is.

> >

> > I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way

over

> my head

> > with this stuff.

> >

> > School people warned me that my ds would be a " robot " if I did

ABA

> with him.

> > the thing is, being autistic is what causes the stilted

speech.

> Trying to

> > do new things that do not come naturally causes " robotic "

looking

> behaviors.

> > And in addition, having usable speech was, at the time, much

> preferrable to

> > nothing, which is what we had. His echolalia is " robotic " in

> nature but it

> > was before we started ABA as well - it is the nature of the

> beast, IMO. And

> > after a year in the school program, he had not progressed at

> all. How natural

> > looking was he as he wandered around the room not participating

> in anything

> > with anyone? lol. So I didn't let that stop me. Further, any

> good ABA

> > program will emphasize generalization. And you also have to

have

> people who will

> > not do the same things, the same way, the same order each

time.

> Mix it up.

> > Make it interesting. Once my ds would get something, we would

> mix it up and

> > make it challenging but attainable. Problem would arise when

> people just

> > went through the motions - like one teacher would ask him the

> same questions,

> > right down the list. And he had the answers memorized so much

so

> that he

> > answered them all in one big word. This prompted the school to

> say that ABA was

> > " too easy " for him and he was bored. duh. lol. But I think

as

> you go, you

> > think of ideas and ways to make it suit the child - going

faster

> and slower

> > as necessary. Some kids really need a lot of repetition,

others

> need a lot

> > of variety. Some need both. We do different things

differently

> with my

> > friend than I had done with my ds. But it is what suits him

> better.

> >

> > Roxanna ô¿ö

> > Autism Happens

> >

> > Roxanna ô¿ö

> > Autism Happens

> >

>

> *note:

> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to

include the s in groups. Here is the complete address:

> ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

> is a networking and support group

> of " Parent to Parent for Autism " .

> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html

>

May 22, 2006

>What level does your child function at? A good assessment/guidance

for a child under 6 is the ABLLS. It will give you examples and maps

out appropriate stepping stones in order for the child to gain the

most.

May 22, 2006

Excellent advice. I also just signed up for the group w/ Burke. Big Kiss to you for all of your kind advice! I'm excited now about this! BTW her workshops are not too expensive and I could stay with my mother-in-law who lives closeby.....yea!

No dangerous behaviors here. My son uses manipulation to distract me (who's the smart one??). He will attempt to take over and be the "teacher". I can handle the obvious things like generalization, peer imitation, and cooperative play. He is in the very early stages of asking questions. But how does one teach such a thing? How do you prompt a child to ask you a question? How do I prompt him to give spontaneous answers to my questions. He will answer questions and follows the rhythm of conversation, but the conversation must be scripted. I go along with it b/c I assume that he practicing the technique. He will ask questions when it is something that directly effects him and it must be something tangible. He will ask, "Help put my shoes on, Beck?" Which is appropriate. But he will also ask, "how are you?" But he will prompt ME for the correct response. He doesn;t aknowledge that I may not want to answer the way he dictates. Can you teach that sort of thing? How?

I want to say, that the mere act of asking you these questions is helping to clear my thinking of where I need to go with him. Talking to all of you has helped put things into better perspective.

Thank you,

----- Original Message -----

From: smdscott141

Sent: 5/21/2006 11:32:55 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: ABA/MFE

How about a map...Behaviors that are dangerous should be attacked first like dangerous climbing, head-banging, biting, hitting, running away from parent. Next could be: Behaviors that interfere with learning such as lack of eye contact, lack of attending, inability to remain seated. Then would be behaviors that are disruptive or inappropriate like screaming, tantrums, self-stimulation, compliance, following directions. Then on to higher-level cognitive thinking as in discrimination, generalization. Then social behavior like peer imitation, interaction, taking turns, sharing, cooperative play. Then to verbal behaviors like functional word usage, asking questions, answering questions, learning to say "I don't know, echolalia. Then once you have a map of where you want to go figure out how you want to get there...behaviorally, biomedically, etc. What has proved to work for your child so far. What does the data tell you? What are the persons working on your childs behalf saying? What makes good, logical and natural sense to you based on real facts and what you know about your child?> >> > > > In a message dated 5/21/2006 7:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > Ladyshrink111@ writes:> > > > Now knowing what modern ABA is, still have some reservations > about it, makes > > for a child with very programmed, stilted conversation. I much > prefer > > Floortime and did a version of that here---constant, when awake, > totally > > participatory playtime. Just seems more natural to me, but may be > a function of where > > the child is.> > > > I think it isn't rocket science either, but you guys are way over > my head > > with this stuff.> > > > > > > > > > > > School people warned me that my ds would be a "robot" if I did ABA > with him. > > the thing is, being autistic is what causes the stilted speech. > Trying to > > do new things that do not come naturally causes "robotic" looking > behaviors. > > And in addition, having usable speech was, at the time, much > preferrable to > > nothing, which is what we had. His echolalia is "robotic" in > nature but it > > was before we started ABA as well - it is the nature of the > beast, IMO. And > > after a year in the school program, he had not progressed at > all. How natural > > looking was he as he wandered around the room not participating > in anything > > with anyone? lol. So I didn't let that stop me. Further, any > good ABA > > program will emphasize generalization. And you also have to have > people who will > > not do the same things, the same way, the same order each time. > Mix it up. > > Make it interesting. Once my ds would get something, we would > mix it up and > > make it challenging but attainable. Problem would arise when > people just > > went through the motions - like one teacher would ask him the > same questions, > > right down the list. And he had the answers memorized so much so > that he > > answered them all in one big word. This prompted the school to > say that ABA was > > "too easy" for him and he was bored. duh. lol. But I think as > you go, you > > think of ideas and ways to make it suit the child - going faster > and slower > > as necessary. Some kids really need a lot of repetition, others > need a lot > > of variety. Some need both. We do different things differently > with my > > friend than I had done with my ds. But it is what suits him > better. > > > > > > Roxanna ô¿ö> > Autism Happens > > > > > > Roxanna ô¿ö> > Autism Happens> >> > > > > > > *note:> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to include the s in groups. Here is the complete address: > ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~> is a networking and support group> of "Parent to Parent for Autism".> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html > > > >

Sign In

Re: ABA/MFE

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Activity