Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Rhonda, You don't HAVE to make natto with soybeans. You can also use adzuki beans, black beans, etc. Generally speaking, smaller types of beans are preferred. I hear that mung beans are to be avoided. If you like strong flavors like bleu cheese you may learn to enjoy natto. Its traditionally eaten with condiments such as prepared mustard and chopped green onions. Natto is being looked into for its content of K2 which studies suggest can somehow prevent osteoporosis. One study suggests that you may ingest the natto spore and that the level of K2 in the blood stays elevated for a longer period compared with that of eating the beans. I purchased a vial of natto spore from GEM Cultures and sometimes put a squirt into a glass of water to drink. Darrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Rhonda, Nattokinase is a supplement used as a blood thinner, especially by people with APS, Fibro., MS, CFS, biotoxins etc. I did a lot of reading about it, because I have hypercoagulation. (Or at least I did - haven't had it checked for many months.) It's purported to be as effective as prescription blood thinners. It has other uses also, as you probably read through your Google search. I've eaten natto, but only from the health food store. It was fermented, and didn't contain any objectionable unnatural ingredients. (Unless you consider soy beans objectionable, which I do. :-) They're supposed to be good for us when they're fermented, but I get just as much gas from them fermented, so I have to wonder.) I didn't find the taste of natto offensive at all, and it wasn't necessary for me to acquire a taste for it, as they say you have to do. In fact, with a little mustard, I quite liked it, but as they say, 'it didn't like me'. It's rather mild tasting. I know someone who eats it every day for a hypercoagulation problem. She gets it from an oriental store by the case. She was the first person I talked to about it, who had first hand experience eating it. She told me it was very " blah " tasting and that she had to use mustard to get it down. When I tasted it, I could see what she meant, but I could also taste a subtle sort of nutty flavor. Several years ago, I was able to get organic soy beans at a local grocery health food store. I have the same question about how fermented soy products affect the thyroid, so I couldn't even attempt a response to that question. Carol A friend and co-worker just briefly mentioned nattokinase - I think it's a supplement she is taking I briefly googled it this evening and it sounds rather impressive. It appears that you can buy the natto starter to make your own, however it is made with soybeans. Which is where I'm having a few questions. How do you go about buying soybeans in small bulk that aren't GM? And how does natto affect (or does it) hypothyroid? Also somewhere it mentioned that it has a taste that you must acquire. So just what is the taste? Is this a food supplement/condiment that I should seek out, or is it just another one of many options for enzymes. TIA Rhonda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 @@@@ > I have the same question about how fermented soy products affect the > thyroid, so I couldn't even attempt a response to that question. > Carol @@@ As far as I understand it, the thyroid problems from soyfoods will be exactly the same whether it is unfermented or fermented!!! Fermenting soy is not a panacea!!!! It dramatically improves the nutritional value, in both humdrum (mineral and protein bioavailability) and exotic ways (nattokinase, K2, etc), but it does not eliminate the phytoestrogens, which are precisely the cause of all the effects (e.g. thyroid problems)that make soy a hot-button topic!!!!!! It seems like I write posts to this and other groups over and over again making this point, but it never seems to register.... Discourse on soy is so hopelessly clouded by half-truths and misunderstandings... Mike SE Pennsylvania The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Mike, I think part of the problem is that some of the very people who complain about the adverse effects from eating soy, also tout the value of eating it fermented. I know that's why I have been confused about it. (Not knowing if fermentation would remove the hormonal effect or not. I have not seen that issue addressed.) No one could be more vehemently opposed to soy than Dr. Mercola, and yet his book has recipes using fermented soy, so I think most people are confused, if indeed you are correct. I just avoid the whole issue, by avoiding soy, because one thing that fermentation does not do, for me, is remove the gas-producing qualities. Carol >>As far as I understand it, the thyroid problems from soyfoods will be exactly the same whether it is unfermented or fermented!!! Fermenting soy is not a panacea!!!! It dramatically improves the nutritional value, in both humdrum (mineral and protein bioavailability) and exotic ways (nattokinase, K2, etc), but it does not eliminate the phytoestrogens, which are precisely the cause of all the effects (e.g. thyroid problems)that make soy a hot-button topic!!!!!! It seems like I write posts to this and other groups over and over again making this point, but it never seems to register.... Discourse on soy is so hopelessly clouded by half-truths and misunderstandings... Mike SE Pennsylvania<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 @@@ Carol: (Not knowing > if fermentation would remove the hormonal effect or not. I have not seen > that issue addressed.) @@@ It doesn't. That's my most important point. I have even seen a reference to the possibility that fermentation can slightly increase the hormonal effect, but I haven't had a chance to look into that. @@@ Carol: No one could be more vehemently opposed to soy than > Dr. Mercola, and yet his book has recipes using fermented soy, so I think > most people are confused, if indeed you are correct. @@@ The hormonal effect from small amounts of soy might be small enough to be of no concern. I don't know how true that is, but it seems likely to me, because there are other common foods with phytoestrogens, just less concentrated than soy, and they are eaten in small quantities too. And if someone is going to eat soy in small quantities, then obviously a fermented form is the best choice. So that's why it makes sense to me that people like Mercola and SF would promote certain traditional soy ferments. Another angle I can think of, probably most important to these authors if I were to guess, is simply that eating small amounts of fermented soy is an historically validated practice in the same category as all sorts of other less than obvious foods. Most people prefer to deal with things in simplistic good/bad dichotomies, and nature (specifically the little chunk constituting the human organism and the substances that enter it) is just massively more complex and subtle than that. Most people simply haven't invested the effort to understand the specific issues with soy, all of which are common issues with many other foods as well. There's the " soy is a miracle food and my health will be proportional to how much I can shove in my body in any form possible " demographic, and then there's the " soy is poison " demographic, but sadly there is a relatively tiny number of people who have a nuanced viewpoint somewhere in between. @@@ Carol: I just avoid the whole issue, by avoiding soy, because one thing that fermentation does not do, for me, is remove the gas-producing qualities. @@@ Carol, to your practice of avoiding soy altogether, here's what I have to say: Have you ever eaten chanar seeds? No? Me neither. It's a somewhat obscure food from South America, so why should we have? Perhaps you feel the same way I feel about it, which is precisely " so what? " . Is there anything even worth mentioning about not eating one of the hundreds of minor foods out there in the world? To simply go an entire lifetime without eating a soy seed is not much different than going an entire lifetime without eating a chanar seed. It's a big fat " so what? " and not much else. In fact, it's only because of quite random historical events that soy is not just another obscure seed food that only some tiny region of the world is even aware of. So that's how I feel about avoiding soy altogether. Why not? Personally, with occasional insignificant exceptions like storebought natto for culinary reference, or miso soup at a restaurant, I also completely avoid soy. I figure " why not? " . Why not just not eat soy at all? I've never heard a single Britney Spears song, I've never eaten a chanar seed, I've never been to Idaho, so why can't I just never eat soy? Since we can only eat some tiny percentage of the possible foods in the world, skipping soy altogether is somehow very natural. I hope that gives a different way of looking at it, and makes you feel good! Mike SE Pennsylvania The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Did you have to pick on Idaho?! I feel lonely enough all ready! Yes, I am being sarcastic! And I have never been to SE Pennsylvania! L. Why not just not eat soy > at all? I've never heard a single Britney Spears song, I've never > eaten a chanar seed, I've never been to Idaho, so why can't I just > never eat soy? Since we can only eat some tiny percentage of the > possible foods in the world, skipping soy altogether is somehow very > natural. > > I hope that gives a different way of looking at it, and makes you feel good! > > > > Mike > SE Pennsylvania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Mike, That's actually the very same way I look at it. (I do eat soy sauce in recipes sometimes and miso once in awhile.) They don't seem to bother my digestive system as much as natto does. I think Mercola said somewhere that fermented soy should be eaten more as a condiment than a main dish, which is about how I eat it when I do. Carol I hope that gives a different way of looking at it, and makes you feel good! Mike SE Pennsylvania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 I remember reading that somewhere in something from Mercola too. L. I think Mercola said somewhere that > fermented soy should be eaten more as a condiment than a main dish, which is > about how I eat it when I do. > Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 @@@@ > I remember reading that somewhere in something from Mercola too. > L. > > I think Mercola said somewhere that > > fermented soy should be eaten more as a condiment than a main dish, which > is > > about how I eat it when I do. > > Carol @@@@@@ BTW, to be uncharacteristically concise, I want to point out that fermented soy is inherently unsuited to consumption as a main dish!!!!! Whether Mercola, SF, or anyone else advises thusly is distinctly and sublimely moot! Mike SE Pennsylvania The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Natto eases clots, bulks up bones By Laurie Steelsmith Q. I've heard that natto has health benefits. Can you explain? A. A number of studies have found that natto, a traditional Japanese food made from fermented soybeans, not only benefits your bones but can also help prevent blood clots. Natto is unusually high in vitamin K2, a nutrient that can prevent bone loss and reduce fracture risk. A 2001 article in the journal Current Opinion in Clinical Nutrition and Metabolic Care points out that vitamin K2 is important for bone physiology because it preserves bone micro-architecture and prevents loss of bone mass. The Journal of Bone and Mineral Research reported in 2000 that vitamin K2 may increase bone strength in women who have osteoporosis and has also been found to prevent the recurrence of new fractures. Natto may be one reason that women in Japan have a lower incidence of osteoporosis than Western women. Natto also contains the enzyme nattokinase, reported to reduce and prevent blood clots. Although blood clotting is vital for survival — it's what keeps you from bleeding to death if you have a cut or ruptured blood vessel, for instance — some people suffer from excessive thrombosis, or blood clotting, even if they haven't been injured. Dr. Hiroyuki Sumi, of Japan's Miyazaki Medical College, discovered that nattokinase could be effective not only in treating but also in preventing blood clots. A number of animal studies done in Japan found that nattokinase can break down clots by reducing excessive levels of an enzyme (plasminogen activator inhibitor type I) responsible for their formation. To make natto a part of your bone-building and blood-clot prevention plan, explore Japanese cuisine. In Japan, natto is often eaten with chopped green onions, soy sauce and mustard on rice. (The restaurant Kai at 1427 Makaloa Street has a delicious version.) For people at risk of deep-vein thrombosis from air travel, eating natto before flying may be a good idea. For many people, natto is an acquired taste — it has a pungent smell and a slimy texture — so give yourself time to get used to eating it. You can also take vitamin K2 as a supplement for your bones; researchers used a dose of 45 milligrams daily. Nattokinase is also available in capsule form; the recommended daily dose is 100 to 200 milligrams. (Caution: supplementing with nattokinase should be discussed with your physician. Avoid natto and nattokinase if you are on blood-thinning medications such as Coumadin, Plavix or warfarin.) Suzi What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. health/ www.onegrp.com/?mamanott organic cosmetics http://suziesgoats.wholefoodfarmacy.com/ Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Had some really good natto rolls at a sushi place this past weekend. Where do you get yours? I found one place on-line that ships it fresh refrigerated, but most were the dried form. Is the latter what you are referring to when you speak of a package? Thanks, - [ ] Re: Supplements Hi Ed:As you realize vitamin K1 is plentifully supplied by green vegetables,so few here are likely to be deficient.Vitamin K2 seems to be plentifully supplied only by natto, or perhapssupplements of it. The benefits are claimed to be for bone mass - oftenan issue for people on CR - and possibly dementia, which probably is nota major issue for us.I eat a small package of natto (~50g) about once a week, but nosupplements of it. I figure this means I get many multiples more K2from this compared with those not eating natto. On principle I trynever to overdo anything! And I am encouraged in this by the fact thatnatto is not my favorite taste!Some reports on this have been posted here. But I am not aware of anymajor studies, so I do it on the basis that it it doesn't seem likelythere would be any downside and possibly some appreciable upside.Rodney.> >> > It¹s best to try to get your vitamins from food. There¹snothing> quite like> > the synergistic way that nature has evolved to get the right combo> of> > nutrients into us  at least not yet. In some of our past> discussions we¹ve> > noted studies where nutrients are sometimes not useful in a pill> or capsule> > as they are in food. Also too much of certain nutrients are> harmful, not> > helpful. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7349980.stm> >> > That said there are a very few nutrients that I do supplement> with. I take> > fish oil, D3, and a K pill once a week (since K is so rare in> food).> >> > I expect that everyone here has a different individual take on> this subject.> > Jeff posted a few months ago about healthy centenarians who were> deficient> > in some nutrients. IOW micro-managing your nutrients may not be as> > important as we previously thought.> >> > Search our archives for past posts about vitamins and> supplements. Go to> > the home page and put ³vitamins² or ³supplements² in thesearch> box and you> > will get our past discussions.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Hi : Near here there is what I would describe as a moderate-sized korean/chinese/japanese supermarket with a wide selection of all kinds or oriental products. The natto is kept in the refridgerated case section. They have perhaps half a dozen brands so there must be an appreciable demand for it. The package I am currently eating is colored mostly red, is produced by a company called Shirakiku. "Imported from Japan by Nishimoto Trading Company ... Santa Fe Springs, CA." The whole package is labelled as net weight of 204g, and contains three separately packaged small servings, presumably 68g each. I forget how much it cost, but as a guess probably $3. Rodney. > > >> > > It¹s best to try to get your vitamins from food. There¹s> nothing> > quite like> > > the synergistic way that nature has evolved to get the right combo> > of> > > nutrients into us  at least not yet. In some of our past> > discussions we¹ve> > > noted studies where nutrients are sometimes not useful in a pill> > or capsule> > > as they are in food. Also too much of certain nutrients are> > harmful, not> > > helpful. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7349980.stm> > >> > > That said there are a very few nutrients that I do supplement> > with. I take> > > fish oil, D3, and a K pill once a week (since K is so rare in> > food).> > >> > > I expect that everyone here has a different individual take on> > this subject.> > > Jeff posted a few months ago about healthy centenarians who were> > deficient> > > in some nutrients. IOW micro-managing your nutrients may not be as> > > important as we previously thought.> > >> > > Search our archives for past posts about vitamins and> > supplements. Go to> > > the home page and put ³vitamins² or ³supplements² in the> search> > box and you> > > will get our past discussions.> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Rodney wrote [[Near here there is what I would describe as a moderate- sized korean/chinese/japanese supermarket with a wide selection of all kinds or oriental products.]] ** Here, in my area, we have the Super H Mart: http://www.hmart.com/ This is where I purchase natto. Lol .. Im one of those *rare* folk who actually enjoy the taste! Om Peace! Valarie Devi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 !!!!! HA! That's the place I get my natto! H-Mart. I thought it was just a local store! : ^ )))))) Rodney. >> Rodney wrote [[Near here there is what I would describe as a moderate-> sized korean/chinese/japanese supermarket with a wide selection of all > kinds or oriental products.]]> ** Here, in my area, we have the Super H Mart:> http://www.hmart.com/> > This is where I purchase natto.> > Lol .. Im one of those *rare* folk who actually enjoy the taste!> > Om Peace!> Valarie Devi> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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