Re: disability humor | how fair is it?

[Guest guest]

Hey,

 

thanks for posing this question.  I think it's a nice topic, one that in this

case is in response to the community of people who are blind, but one that

definetely relates to the community of people of short stature.  In

particularly, I strongly related to something the governor said in response to

the Saturday Night Live skit.  The governor said,

 

“There is only one way that people could have an unemployment rate that’s six

times the national  average — it’s attitude,” he said in response to reporters’ 

questions. “And  

I’m afraid that the kind of third-grade depiction of individuals and

the way they look and the way they move add to that negative environment.”

This resonates with me because as people of short stature, we have to deal with

a lot of physical accessibility issues, but in my opinion, the most significant

challenges we face are social barriers.  So in the case of comedy, if it's humor

that exacerbates those social barriers, then it's offensive.  If it's humor that

pokes fun at aspects of a disability community, without directly targeting the

actual disability, then it's funny.  Obviously, there is a line between the

two.  And we will never agree where that line is. 

 

But here is an example.  The show South Park has a reputation for kind of

raunchy humor, in which no community is safe from attack.  But I really

like some of the disability humor on South Park.  I think there is a character

named Timmy on the show.  He is a kid who uses a wheelchair.  He has been the

focus of a couple of episodes, but from what I remember, the humor doesn't make

fun of the disability.  In one episode, Timmy joined a band.  The whole South

Park community was up in arms because it thought the band was exploiting Timmy

for publicity. The whole episode was about, is the band taking advantage of

Timmy because of his disability, and should Timmy be in the band or not.  So the

humor wasn't about Timmy's disability, but rather about how people without

disabilities are sometimes over sensitive to disability.  I know I am guilty of

it.  Whenever I see a person of short stature in a commercial, or in a show, my

first impulse is,

" oh my gosh, is this exploitation. "  

 

With that said though, a person with whom I work is pretty familiar with the

blind community.  She watched the saturday night live skit.  She thought some of

it offensive, but she thought some of  it also was poking fun not specifically

at disability, but at the way we respond to people who are blind.  That part at

the end, when the governor character comes back on camera.  Rather then telling

the governor to move, which is the logical thing to do, because of our over

sensitivity to people with disabilities, the weekend update reporters bend over,

around the governor so they can be seen by the camera. 

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

thanks,

 

Arnold

From: shortdwarf.com <shortdwarfcom@...>

Subject: disability humor | how fair is it?

" shortdwarf.com " <517.507.5552@...>

Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 7:22 PM

anybody see this? anybody want to weigh in? how fair is it?

on saturday night live with the NY governor parody...

http://www.popeater .com/television/ article/did- snl-blind- gov-mocking-

go-too-far/ 277457

http://video. aol.com/partner/ hulu/saturday- night-live- update-gov- paterson/

bBPqq0oEgVYLuCW9 MOgFL3gm56bTGkMK

shortdwarf.com ::: where size meets reality

[Guest guest]

Kinda to quote South Park myself, well, really to paraphrase another

episode where one of them says, " Either all of it can be made fun of

or none of it. " I say that too, except for one group-the mentally

challenged, for me. Because to me, number one, most, I believe, would

not be even aware of their being fun of, so what would be the point of

it anyway, other than to be cruel. And cruel to me is never funny. And

they can't retaliate, be it thru a protest or a joke back at the group

that made of fun of them first, other than only thru their

non-mentally challenged parents, siblings and/or supporters... but

still not thru themselves (for the most part). Whereas, we as a group

of distinct individuals can individually and/or as a group of our own

and on our own too react back, be it through a protest or a joke back,

or even this third choice, ignoring them altogether. Which, actually,

I feel, is more classy than as*y anyway. That choice, to me, shows an

intelligence that we are not going to be like them, by retaliating

back in the same manner.

Now, I know a few lps, that is, get upset even if another lp makes fun

of themselves or of their being an lp and all that goes along with

that too, because they feel that too is setting us 'backwards'. But, I

am one, an lp, who feels that the anyone having that same disability

or difference in race, culture or even in their religion, then they

have a right to make fun of themselves and their community, such as

, just using him as one example only and not singling him

out. I am sooo much for personal liberty there, even if I wouldn't do

it myself as an occupation.

We all have 'lines', and that is what makes us up as individuals

(personality) first and lp (physically) second. I wouldn't want every

lp's line to be the same. Besides, then it wouldn't even be a line or

a distinction between any of us, rather then it would just be a blur,

as we'd be all muddied together with no unique distinct differences at

all between us.

I think the Governor took the high road, but at the same time I feel

his disability is not off limits as is ours, because he, like us, can

react back. So, for me, my line: It's all of it or none of it, 'sans'

one-the mentally challenged. Because, again, I feel if you make fun of

them, that's simply cruel, plain and simple. But, even there, I know

some would disagree with me on that line, and that is each and

everyone's right too. But, then it's also my right to stick up for the

mentally challenged by protesting that (anti)type of humor, boycotting

whoever is doing it, and vocally and publicly saying how mean and

cruel that (anti)type of humor really is.

~grady, as always the above is my line, ooops, my opinion, hehe, but

you can also stand on the same line as me... or... move it beyond mine

or below mine. Because that's yer choice, yer right too;).

[Guest guest]

The difference here: are you laughing WITH someone (a group? a person with

this disability?) or are you laughing at them?

I have friends who rib me about my height occasionally, though it has

dropped off significantly with maturity. It was always good natured joking

and I'd typically give as good as I got - we were laughing together. The

difference between that and the teasing I experienced from those who weren't

my friends is rather easy to see. I think that same line can be seen in

comedy, too.

Does the joke humanize or de-humanize the person or group?

Does the joke connect to non-disabled experiences?

Re: disability humor | how fair is it?

> Kinda to quote South Park myself, well, really to paraphrase another

> episode where one of them says, " Either all of it can be made fun of

> or none of it. " I say that too, except for one group-the mentally

> challenged, for me. Because to me, number one, most, I believe, would

> not be even aware of their being fun of, so what would be the point of

> it anyway, other than to be cruel. And cruel to me is never funny. And

> they can't retaliate, be it thru a protest or a joke back at the group

> that made of fun of them first, other than only thru their

> non-mentally challenged parents, siblings and/or supporters... but

> still not thru themselves (for the most part). Whereas, we as a group

> of distinct individuals can individually and/or as a group of our own

> and on our own too react back, be it through a protest or a joke back,

> or even this third choice, ignoring them altogether. Which, actually,

> I feel, is more classy than as*y anyway. That choice, to me, shows an

> intelligence that we are not going to be like them, by retaliating

> back in the same manner.

>

> Now, I know a few lps, that is, get upset even if another lp makes fun

> of themselves or of their being an lp and all that goes along with

> that too, because they feel that too is setting us 'backwards'. But, I

> am one, an lp, who feels that the anyone having that same disability

> or difference in race, culture or even in their religion, then they

> have a right to make fun of themselves and their community, such as

> , just using him as one example only and not singling him

> out. I am sooo much for personal liberty there, even if I wouldn't do

> it myself as an occupation.

>

> We all have 'lines', and that is what makes us up as individuals

> (personality) first and lp (physically) second. I wouldn't want every

> lp's line to be the same. Besides, then it wouldn't even be a line or

> a distinction between any of us, rather then it would just be a blur,

> as we'd be all muddied together with no unique distinct differences at

> all between us.

>

> I think the Governor took the high road, but at the same time I feel

> his disability is not off limits as is ours, because he, like us, can

> react back. So, for me, my line: It's all of it or none of it, 'sans'

> one-the mentally challenged. Because, again, I feel if you make fun of

> them, that's simply cruel, plain and simple. But, even there, I know

> some would disagree with me on that line, and that is each and

> everyone's right too. But, then it's also my right to stick up for the

> mentally challenged by protesting that (anti)type of humor, boycotting

> whoever is doing it, and vocally and publicly saying how mean and

> cruel that (anti)type of humor really is.

>

> ~grady, as always the above is my line, ooops, my opinion, hehe, but

> you can also stand on the same line as me... or... move it beyond mine

> or below mine. Because that's yer choice, yer right too;).

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> ===

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You said: " So in the case of comedy, if it's humor that exacerbates

those social barriers, then it's offensive. If it's humor that pokes

fun at aspects of a disability community, without directly targeting

the actual disability, then it's funny. Obviously, there is a line

between the two. And we will never agree where that line is. "

While I agree that overall as a community we'll never find one POV on

this issue, my concern is the level of sophistication of the viewer to

discern the intended point of the humor. And how would a child with a

disability would feel viewing something like the South Park episode?

I'm 52 and I still have days when it makes me squirm. I watched maybe

15 to 20 seconds of the SNL clip and had to turn it off.

Thanks for sharing,

> Hey,

> �

> thanks for posing this question.� I think it's a nice topic, one

that in this case is in response to the community of people who are

blind, but one that definetely relates to the community of people of

short stature.� In particularly, I strongly related to something the

governor said in response to the Saturday Night Live skit.� The

governor said,

> �

> �There is only one way that�people could have an unemployment rate

that�s six times the national �average � it�s attitude,� he said in

response to reporters�� questions. �And �

> I�m afraid that the kind of third-grade depiction of individuals and

> the way they look and the way they move add to that negative

environment.�

>

> This resonates with me because as people of short stature, we have

to deal with a lot of physical accessibility issues, but in my

opinion, the most significant challenges we face are social barriers.�

So in the case of comedy, if it's humor that exacerbates those social

barriers, then it's offensive.� If it's humor that pokes fun at

aspects of a disability community, without directly targeting the

actual disability, then it's funny.� Obviously, there is a line

between the two.� And we will never agree where that line is.�

> �

> But here is an example.� The show South Park has a reputation for

kind of raunchy humor, in which no community is safe from attack.� But

I really like�some of the disability humor on South Park.� I think

there is a character named Timmy on the show.� He is a kid who uses a

wheelchair.� He has been the focus of a couple of episodes, but from

what I remember, the humor doesn't make fun of the disability.� In one

episode, Timmy joined a band.� The whole South Park community was up

in arms because it thought the band was exploiting Timmy for

publicity.�The whole episode was about, is the band taking advantage

of Timmy because of his disability, and�should Timmy be in the band or

not.� So the humor wasn't about Timmy's disability, but rather about

how people without disabilities are sometimes over sensitive to

disability.� I know I am guilty of it.� Whenever I see a person of

short stature�in a commercial, or in a�show, my first impulse�is,

> " oh my gosh, is this exploitation. " �

> �

> With that said though, a person with whom I work is pretty familiar

with the blind community.� She watched the saturday night live skit.�

She thought some of it offensive, but she thought some of� it also was

poking fun not specifically at disability, but at the way we respond

to people who are blind.� That part at the end, when the governor

character comes back on camera.� Rather then telling the governor to

move, which is the logical thing to do, because of our over

sensitivity to people with disabilities, the weekend update reporters

bend over, around the governor so they can be seen by the camera.�

> �

> Those are my thoughts.

> �

> thanks,

> �

> Arnold

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, , and this is not to say that I don't agree with you,

but now when it comes to a joke from any one (individual) about any

other one (individual) or about any other group (of specific

individuals), the joke must now meet the criteria you set forth at the

bottom of your reply, for it to truly be funny?

Not all jokes humanize and/or connect, they are often just satires of

real things that real people do, including us individually or of what

we may do as a people. I look at jokes that although they may be

making fun of us or of what we may do, using that as an example only,

it's base or foundation may be true... but it's exaggerated for the

joke, so that it is funny. As often picks on his own

community with the little things they known for doing, because they do

have a base or foundation of truth, whether it's only in his mind or

not, he then uses those experiences and exaggerates those same things

to make it funny even more so. And going beyond , there are

those in the comedy circuit who are not of the specific group they

joke about, but they are funny nonetheless. Does anyone on here

remember the other ? Carlin? He did it to ALL groups,

even to those he was NOT a member of, and he was gut busting funny at

times. And those times when he was NOT funny to 'ME', as what he said

may have offended ME, I just skipped that part of the cd, or changed

the channel on the tv, or changed the station on the radio of which he

was on. I think sometimes, we as a people are tooooo restrictive, my

opinion only. Because to me, as stated before by me on here in another

post, I feel, the only group of people that should not be joked upon

are the mentally challenged as (most of) them would not be 1.

cognitive enough of their own ability to know what the joke even meant

in all of its implications, 2 to rebutt it on their own, 3. reply to

it, be it negatively or positively, 4. protest it on their own or 5.

even joke back on it... BUT we as distinct group of people can,

individually and as a collective unit can, as I have so demonstrated

now on my own;).

So my question to you is, " Do all future jokes, those yet to be said,

must now be compliant with the 2 standards as set forth by you here? "

Just asking:), grady

> Does the joke humanize or de-humanize the person or group?

> Does the joke connect to non-disabled experiences?

> The difference here: are you laughing WITH someone (a group? a

person with this disability?) or are you laughing at them?

> I have friends who rib me about my height occasionally, though it

has dropped off significantly with maturity. It was always good

natured joking and I'd typically give as good as I got - we were

laughing together. The difference between that and the teasing I

experienced from those who weren't my friends is rather easy to see. I

think that same line can be seen in comedy, too.

> Does the joke humanize or de-humanize the person or group?

> Does the joke connect to non-disabled experiences?

[Guest guest]

For it to be funny, no. There is a lot of humor that is funny *because*

it's offensive. I'll admit to enjoying Carlin quite a bit before he got so

angry in his last years.

As a guide to judging whether you should be telling a particular joke about

a group you don't belong to, maybe. Cruel jokes can be funny, but how much

kindness do we need to sacrifice to be funny? I do think there's a line

there that shouldn't be crossed, but I don't think I can articulate what it

might be.

Obviously, my personal standards aren't law and I have no desire to make

them so.

Re: disability humor | how fair is it?

> Thanks, , and this is not to say that I don't agree with you,

> but now when it comes to a joke from any one (individual) about any

> other one (individual) or about any other group (of specific

> individuals), the joke must now meet the criteria you set forth at the

> bottom of your reply, for it to truly be funny?

>

> Not all jokes humanize and/or connect, they are often just satires of

> real things that real people do, including us individually or of what

> we may do as a people. I look at jokes that although they may be

> making fun of us or of what we may do, using that as an example only,

> it's base or foundation may be true... but it's exaggerated for the

> joke, so that it is funny. As often picks on his own

> community with the little things they known for doing, because they do

> have a base or foundation of truth, whether it's only in his mind or

> not, he then uses those experiences and exaggerates those same things

> to make it funny even more so. And going beyond , there are

> those in the comedy circuit who are not of the specific group they

> joke about, but they are funny nonetheless. Does anyone on here

> remember the other ? Carlin? He did it to ALL groups,

> even to those he was NOT a member of, and he was gut busting funny at

> times. And those times when he was NOT funny to 'ME', as what he said

> may have offended ME, I just skipped that part of the cd, or changed

> the channel on the tv, or changed the station on the radio of which he

> was on. I think sometimes, we as a people are tooooo restrictive, my

> opinion only. Because to me, as stated before by me on here in another

> post, I feel, the only group of people that should not be joked upon

> are the mentally challenged as (most of) them would not be 1.

> cognitive enough of their own ability to know what the joke even meant

> in all of its implications, 2 to rebutt it on their own, 3. reply to

> it, be it negatively or positively, 4. protest it on their own or 5.

> even joke back on it... BUT we as distinct group of people can,

> individually and as a collective unit can, as I have so demonstrated

> now on my own;).

>

> So my question to you is, " Do all future jokes, those yet to be said,

> must now be compliant with the 2 standards as set forth by you here? "

>

> Just asking:), grady

>

>> Does the joke humanize or de-humanize the person or group?

>> Does the joke connect to non-disabled experiences?

>

>

>

>> The difference here: are you laughing WITH someone (a group? a

> person with this disability?) or are you laughing at them?

>

>> I have friends who rib me about my height occasionally, though it

> has dropped off significantly with maturity. It was always good

> natured joking and I'd typically give as good as I got - we were

> laughing together. The difference between that and the teasing I

> experienced from those who weren't my friends is rather easy to see. I

> think that same line can be seen in comedy, too.

>

>> Does the joke humanize or de-humanize the person or group?

>> Does the joke connect to non-disabled experiences?

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> ===

>

[Guest guest]

I am a person who has a different sense of humor than many of my

peers. When people ask me if I want to hear a joke, I give them

guidelines that I ask them to respect.

If they cannot respect my boundaries I have, I will tell them I find

the joke offensive or inappropriate. If they continue with their

behavior, I will walk away.

This is what I tell people, " If the joke is condescending, vulgar,

sexual or meant to ridicule a person due to their status, such as a

disability or ethnic background, I do not want to hear it. "

My family says that I'm overly sensitive and I need to lighten up. I

get very upset and tell them I'm offended when they tell jokes that

ridicule people with disabilities. In my opinion, I am not overly

sensitive.

I love a good joke and pranks as long as no one gets hurt. I've been

told that I have a morbid sense of humor as well and I've been told

that I'm quite goofy!

My in-laws do respect me a LOT more than my side of the family. As a

person who grew up with a disability, I do not understand why my side

of the family find it appropriate to tell jokes to ridicule people

with disabilities. Then have the audacity to say that I am overly

sensitive.

My friends, co-workers and in-laws joke around with me a lot and

sometimes we joke about my height or whatever. As long as it's not

condescending or patronizing, I like to joke around.

Also I ask people not to use certain words around me. Many people in

my life are respectful of that. If someone cannot be respectful to my

request, I will walk away because I'm not going to allow myself to

stay in an uncomfortable position.

~ a

>

> For it to be funny, no. There is a lot of humor that is funny

*because*

> it's offensive. I'll admit to enjoying Carlin quite a bit before he

got so

> angry in his last years.

>

> As a guide to judging whether you should be telling a particular

joke about

> a group you don't belong to, maybe. Cruel jokes can be funny, but

how much

> kindness do we need to sacrifice to be funny? I do think there's a

line

> there that shouldn't be crossed, but I don't think I can articulate

what it

> might be.

>

> Obviously, my personal standards aren't law and I have no desire to

make

> them so.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for replying .

Kindness is always preferred;)

Because it lights up a smile,

but it's still not a laugh,

warm fuzzies the heart,

but it's still not a gaffe,

and hopefully makes the recipient pay it forward

but even then it's still not a craft:P

Just think of it this way, humor, whether we like certain 'styles' of

it or not. Do you think you will ever hear the host of America's

Funniest Videos say this, " Coming Up: See Grady give up his seat at an

LPA banquet for as all of them were taken... awwwww. "

Or will it be more like this, " Coming Up: See grady give up his seat

for at an LPA banquet... but... as he pushing the seat to her he

falls on his duff causing the waiter to spill all the drinks on him,

thus staining his tux he rented just for the occasion, and having now

to give the rental place additional money for its removal!!!!! (clap,

clap, clap) (Laughter all at the expense of poor grady, laughter

will abound:D. But will any of us really balk at it? Protest it? Write

the station for broadcasting it? haha Some are thinking right now,

balk, you must be kidding, I'd be applauding it, that little pompous

as*! haha;)

We often laugh at what's not right, because if it all went right,

who would care, that happens everyday, but my falling on my duff not

sooo much.... well, not yet:D.

~grady

[Guest guest]

Self boundaries are good, healthy, and show the teller to respect you

as you would them, I agree:).

Where I live, there are three major minors:P. I mean this, the 3

biggest minorities other than white waspy people like myself, there

are the Italians, the Irish and the Polish. And having worked with

many Polish people specifically, I personally know that they are some

of the most hardest working, not lazy or dumb as often portrayed in

jokes about them, ones around. So, if anyone says a 'Polish' joke

to me, I will always say, " Can we change it to a non-ethnic group of

specific people? " You may ask me, how can you do that?!

OK, here is one example:

Question: How do you keep an ignorant person in suspense?

Answer: I will tell you later.

~grady:P

> I am a person who has a different sense of humor than many of my

peers. When people ask me if I want to hear a joke, I give them

guidelines that I ask them to respect.

> If they cannot respect my boundaries I have, I will tell them I find

the joke offensive or inappropriate. If they continue with their

behavior, I will walk away.

[Guest guest]

Referring to the NY State Governor

parody on SNL, how fair is it?

Its on a comedy show, expect to comedied!

If the NY Governor is offended, well its

up to that person to respond, phone call,

letter, or  even ask for a rebuttal or something.

Now if this parody was made at a press

conference at City Hall, then that would

really not be fair!  You know what I mean.

People are not expecting to see comedy at

a press conference. Thats serious stuff only.

Altho humor does sneak in! HaHa!

     I think SNL has been on the air for

something like over 30 years. Making fun

of just about everybody I believe.

    So thats about it from me. So everybody

start having some good clean fun. And

please stop fighting all over the World.

     Best Regards !

         See You in NYC!

                                               -D-

PS I made reservations for hotel, and

regestered online successfully.

[Guest guest]

Please indulge a shameless plug. I wrote a short blog laying out my

thoughts on 's response to the SNL sketch. I'd welcome

comments on it...

www.philosophercrip.com

regards,

Joe

[Guest guest]

Joe --

I read your 11/05/08 entry with interest. I clicked to see the 3

comments that had been posted and to add a comment. Unfortunately, the

link doesn't appear to work. The comments for other posts work fine,

just that one.

Rose

>

> Please indulge a shameless plug. I wrote a short blog laying out my

> thoughts on 's response to the SNL sketch. I'd

welcome

> comments on it...

>

> www.philosophercrip.com

>

> regards,

>

> Joe

>