Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Bob, Your advice to Peggy is excellent. As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very rational to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell the patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change over the next few years as experience and additional studies enter the picture, or as lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients though would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it is good medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one can deny the psychological component of regaining health. Re: Advice needed > Peggy > > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However, > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he > might charge and it could be the difference between life and death. > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases. > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease. > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't > know the facts. > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune > system. > What you need to do is to find a support group specifically > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938. > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''. > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately > people like your sister and those being educated today know only one, > and that is truely unfortunate. > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact > that is all they care about. > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done. > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot > more from as many sources as you can get access to. > > Best of luck and God bless. > > bob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Bob, Your advice to Peggy is excellent. As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very rational to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell the patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change over the next few years as experience and additional studies enter the picture, or as lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients though would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it is good medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one can deny the psychological component of regaining health. Re: Advice needed > Peggy > > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However, > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he > might charge and it could be the difference between life and death. > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases. > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease. > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't > know the facts. > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune > system. > What you need to do is to find a support group specifically > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938. > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''. > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately > people like your sister and those being educated today know only one, > and that is truely unfortunate. > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact > that is all they care about. > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done. > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot > more from as many sources as you can get access to. > > Best of luck and God bless. > > bob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 To everyone who responded to my plea for help - thank you! You have given me much to think about and many places to look for more information. Most of what I have found indicates antioxidants make chemo and radiation more effective - not less. The only specific contraindication I found pertaining to my husband's situation is beta carotene which apparently in at least one study has been shown to lower the effectiveness of 5FU. Our family doctor mentioned this study to us early on when he recommended the supplements and said the study had been stopped because outcomes with beta carotene were worse than those without. He cited this as the only case he was aware of in which antioxidants didn't have a positive influence on outcome. I seem to remember the amounts of beta carotene were massive and perhaps the study included all cancer types....but I'm not sure. The antioxidant my husband is taking contains 15,000 IU, 300% RDA of beta carotene along with many other antioxidants. I don't want to stop the antioxidants if this amount of beta carotene is not a problem. Does anyone know if this amount is enough to cause a lessening of effectiveness of 5FU? I'm continuing to search for more information on this but thought I'd ask in case someone here knows the specific dosages of beta carotene that cause a problem. I'm sure our story is similar to many others here in that cancer was the furthermost thing from our minds just 2 months ago and now has taken over our lives. It is overwhelming to try and sort through treatment options and try to figure out what is the best route to follow. Again thank you all. Peggy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 To everyone who responded to my plea for help - thank you! You have given me much to think about and many places to look for more information. Most of what I have found indicates antioxidants make chemo and radiation more effective - not less. The only specific contraindication I found pertaining to my husband's situation is beta carotene which apparently in at least one study has been shown to lower the effectiveness of 5FU. Our family doctor mentioned this study to us early on when he recommended the supplements and said the study had been stopped because outcomes with beta carotene were worse than those without. He cited this as the only case he was aware of in which antioxidants didn't have a positive influence on outcome. I seem to remember the amounts of beta carotene were massive and perhaps the study included all cancer types....but I'm not sure. The antioxidant my husband is taking contains 15,000 IU, 300% RDA of beta carotene along with many other antioxidants. I don't want to stop the antioxidants if this amount of beta carotene is not a problem. Does anyone know if this amount is enough to cause a lessening of effectiveness of 5FU? I'm continuing to search for more information on this but thought I'd ask in case someone here knows the specific dosages of beta carotene that cause a problem. I'm sure our story is similar to many others here in that cancer was the furthermost thing from our minds just 2 months ago and now has taken over our lives. It is overwhelming to try and sort through treatment options and try to figure out what is the best route to follow. Again thank you all. Peggy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My mom has lung cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it has moved to her bones she was never biopsied we didn't want chemo. I am the only one in my family who is fighting to find Alternative ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program and I have been searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find some source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative medicine. I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process and everything is intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul, and mind as well as drive out the dis-ease. I know that these things work my parents have taken vitamins and supplements all of there lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about 4 years ago she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver 1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was diagnosed with Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop taking his many vitamins and supplements and he continues to go today. I do see a big difference in the two and now she is back on her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start them both on the flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe one meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old Percadan three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and have convinced the family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help her pain..... NOT! I know it won't she is in pain from lack of movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished etc. My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri Re: Advice needed > Peggy > > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However, > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he > might charge and it could be the difference between life and death. > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases. > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease. > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't > know the facts. > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune > system. > What you need to do is to find a support group specifically > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938. > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''. > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately > people like your sister and those being educated today know only one, > and that is truely unfortunate. > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact > that is all they care about. > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done. > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot > more from as many sources as you can get access to. > > Best of luck and God bless. > > bob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My mom has lung cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it has moved to her bones she was never biopsied we didn't want chemo. I am the only one in my family who is fighting to find Alternative ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program and I have been searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find some source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative medicine. I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process and everything is intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul, and mind as well as drive out the dis-ease. I know that these things work my parents have taken vitamins and supplements all of there lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about 4 years ago she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver 1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was diagnosed with Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop taking his many vitamins and supplements and he continues to go today. I do see a big difference in the two and now she is back on her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start them both on the flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe one meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old Percadan three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and have convinced the family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help her pain..... NOT! I know it won't she is in pain from lack of movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished etc. My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri Re: Advice needed > Peggy > > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However, > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he > might charge and it could be the difference between life and death. > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases. > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease. > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't > know the facts. > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune > system. > What you need to do is to find a support group specifically > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938. > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''. > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately > people like your sister and those being educated today know only one, > and that is truely unfortunate. > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact > that is all they care about. > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done. > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot > more from as many sources as you can get access to. > > Best of luck and God bless. > > bob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Terri, I found Bill 's book a great place to start. It is full of info and links. see getandstaywell.com The cottage cheese and fso should help your Mom immensely. My energy level went up noticably the first week. And yes, get her exercising. Also see the message a few days ago subject " remission story/protocol " . Oh, and get her off the narcotics. I just read how they really suppress the immune system. Virginia > Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My mom has lung cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it has moved to her bones she was never biopsied we didn't want chemo. I am the only one in my family who is fighting to find Alternative ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program and I have been searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find some source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative medicine. I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process and everything is intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul, and mind as well as drive out the dis-ease. I know that these things work my parents have taken vitamins and supplements all of there lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about 4 years ago she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver 1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was diagnosed with Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop taking his many vitamins and supplements and he continues to go today. I do see a big difference in the two and now she is back on her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start them both on the flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe one meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old Percadan three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and have convinced the family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help her pain..... NOT! I know it won't she is in pain from lack of movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished etc. My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri > > Re: Advice needed > > > > Peggy > > > > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to > > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However, > > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I > > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and > > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he > > might charge and it could be the difference between life and death. > > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and > > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of > > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told > > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average > > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical > > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases. > > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of > > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily > > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being > > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection > > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to > > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease. > > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they > > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor > > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered > > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug > > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To > > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for > > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is > > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and > > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was > > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific > > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a > > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in > > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch > > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't > > know the facts. > > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you > > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are > > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely > > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients > > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then > > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure > > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some > > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a > > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used > > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and > > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain > > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune > > system. > > What you need to do is to find a support group specifically > > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has > > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other > > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very > > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer > > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the > > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who > > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938. > > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as > > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he > > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all > > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he > > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I > > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''. > > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age > > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately > > people like your sister and those being educated today know only one, > > and that is truely unfortunate. > > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only > > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking > > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they > > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving > > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact > > that is all they care about. > > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see > > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least > > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about > > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a > > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried > > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than > > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included > > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern > > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your > > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very > > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox > > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol > > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done. > > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and > > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot > > more from as many sources as you can get access to. > > > > Best of luck and God bless. > > > > bob > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Terri, I found Bill 's book a great place to start. It is full of info and links. see getandstaywell.com The cottage cheese and fso should help your Mom immensely. My energy level went up noticably the first week. And yes, get her exercising. Also see the message a few days ago subject " remission story/protocol " . Oh, and get her off the narcotics. I just read how they really suppress the immune system. Virginia > Bob: I was reading about your advice on the supplements etc. My mom has lung cancer has has been getting weaker and weaker and it has moved to her bones she was never biopsied we didn't want chemo. I am the only one in my family who is fighting to find Alternative ways. I am graduating this week from a EMT program and I have been searching endlessly during the night on the web to try to find some source to help her. I began a very long journey into Alternative medicine. I feel that it is the best way, it is a healing process and everything is intended to rebuild and an nurture the body, soul, and mind as well as drive out the dis-ease. I know that these things work my parents have taken vitamins and supplements all of there lives. when my mom was told by her family doctor about 4 years ago she didn't need all those, that she could just take a centrum silver 1 a day and be fine, well, look where she is now. My dad was diagnosed with Leukemia in 96 he choose no treatment he didnt' stop taking his many vitamins and supplements and he continues to go today. I do see a big difference in the two and now she is back on her vitamins and supplements. I am going to start them both on the flax seed oil and cottage cheese. She isn't eating but maybe one meal a day and she is sleeping all the time thanks to good old Percadan three at at time. Now they are doing a biopsy on Friday and have convinced the family that if she takes Radition it MIGHT help her pain..... NOT! I know it won't she is in pain from lack of movement (exercise) circulation, malnurished etc. My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri > > Re: Advice needed > > > > Peggy > > > > I don't believe that anyone on here is going to be willing to > > give you medical advice with your husbands life at stake. However, > > you can educate yourself and make an educated decision on your own. I > > think Ralph Moss is a good source and you can call him directly and > > discuss your husbands problem with him. It would be worth whatever he > > might charge and it could be the difference between life and death. > > There is a gross misconception amongst physicians and > > pharmacists regarding vitamins , minerals and antioxidents. First of > > all, todays pharmacists contrary to what you may have been told > > receive exactly zero hours of education in nutrition. The average > > physician receives approximately 12 hours during 6 years of medical > > training and then only when it relates to specific diseases. > > You must remember the important axiom ''that the absence of > > disease does not equal health''. The USDA ''minimum daily > > requirements'' of vitamins and minerals are constantly being > > increased as more and more is being discovered in the connection > > between disease and nutrition. Particularly with respect to > > degenerative disease such as cancer and heart disease. > > To most doctors the world of supplements is like vodoo, they > > havn't a clue. There was a time back in the 1940's when the doctor > > for whom Dana Farber Cancer institute in Boston was named discovered > > a chemo drug that fooled the body's cells into thinking that the drug > > (I don't recall the name) was the essential vitamin Folic Acid. To > > this very day most doctors will tell patients being treated for > > cancer not to take Folic Acid or not to take any B vitamins. This is > > absolutely crazy because Folic Acid is an ''essential'' vitamin and > > you will die if you don't take it at some point. The whole idea was > > to suspend Folic Acid only while being treated with this specific > > drug and then of course you had to have it. Your body stores about a > > 4 month supply of Folic Acid and once that is depleted you are in > > serious trouble. Anyway , the point is, the doctors are like a bunch > > of old cronies spouting off old wives tales because they simply don't > > know the facts. > > Doctors worry that the vitamins, minerals and supplements you > > are taking may interfere with the action of the drugs that they are > > giving you. As for the Pharmacist, what you were told is absolutely > > insane. Virtually all drugs being given to cancer patients > > are ''experimental'' by their very nature. If they were not, then > > everyone would be cured and we know that not to be the case. I assure > > you that whatever drugs they have your husband on ''are part of some > > study''. There are no drugs that I know of that are part of a > > standard ''cure'' for colon cancer. There are many drugs being used > > to treat colon cancer and they will work to a degree up to and > > including perhaps 100 percent depending on the nature of the strain > > of cancer, the patients general age, health and strength of immune > > system. > > What you need to do is to find a support group specifically > > on or some other site that relates to colon cancer and has > > people who are familiar with vitamins, antioxidents and other > > supplements. I don't mean to disparage your sister but by the very > > nature of her occupation she is committed to and a ferverent believer > > in drug based treatment, whether it works or doesn't. That is the > > nature of the beast. I know a man who just recently passed away who > > graduated from the Massachusettes college of Pharmacy back in 1938. > > He knew every herb and herb mixture imaginable. The man's mind was as > > sharp as a tack. I asked him if any of those things worked and he > > told me that ''of course they did, you didn't think I studied all > > that stuff for nothing do you''. So, I asked him what happened and he > > matter of factly told me ''well, the drug companies took over and I > > was the last graduating class to have studied herbal medicines''. > > This man went on to be a pharmacist for 50 years and died at the age > > of 90. He lived in both worlds and knew them both. Unfortunately > > people like your sister and those being educated today know only one, > > and that is truely unfortunate. > > Pharmacists and physicians today are essentially taught only > > drug based medicine so they are simply not the people to be asking > > about vitamins, minerals and herbs other than to find out if they > > know for sure and specifically if any of the drugs they are giving > > you will be interfered with by any supplement you are taking. In fact > > that is all they care about. > > Find some support group on colon cancer and ask around and see > > what others are doing before you make any snap decisions. At least > > interview your doctor to find out if he actually knows anything about > > vitamins and supplements. Most will B.S. their way through a > > converstaion because they don't know anything and are only worried > > that it may interfere with the drugs. You need more information than > > that because you simply do not want your husbands name to be included > > as a statistic in an experimental protocol that failed. Your concern > > is not your husband's doctor's protocol, your concern is to save your > > husband's life by any means possible. Some doctors are very > > knowledgable and will work with you, others are just orthodox > > allopathic doctors who administer the required drugs for the protocol > > and accept whatever happens to their patients as all that can be done. > > If you want to push the envelope you have to get involved and > > learn all that your huspand's doctor knows and then learn a whole lot > > more from as many sources as you can get access to. > > > > Best of luck and God bless. > > > > bob > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Terri - I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he recommended Usana for my husband's supplements. http://www.usana-nutritionals.com He also recommended the book by Dr. Ray Strand " What your doctor doesn't know about nutritional medicine may be killing you " . I've just started to read it but Dr. Strand also recommends Usana. Dr. Strand's website is http://www.bionutrition.org and it has some good information - though I think he requires a subscription fee to access all areas of the site. I'm sure the companies you mention have good products also but I thought I'd pass this along to you as I know my doc and his partners investigated the company and it's processes thoroughly (including going to Utah[from PA] to check everything out) before recommending it to their patients. Best to you and your mom - my prayers are with you, Peggy Terri Horn-Drury wrote: > My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here > goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I > am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers > or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to > read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and > where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food > stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a > quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Terri - I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he recommended Usana for my husband's supplements. http://www.usana-nutritionals.com He also recommended the book by Dr. Ray Strand " What your doctor doesn't know about nutritional medicine may be killing you " . I've just started to read it but Dr. Strand also recommends Usana. Dr. Strand's website is http://www.bionutrition.org and it has some good information - though I think he requires a subscription fee to access all areas of the site. I'm sure the companies you mention have good products also but I thought I'd pass this along to you as I know my doc and his partners investigated the company and it's processes thoroughly (including going to Utah[from PA] to check everything out) before recommending it to their patients. Best to you and your mom - my prayers are with you, Peggy Terri Horn-Drury wrote: > My question for you Bob is one that might be very detailed but here > goes. How can I learn more about the vitamins and supplements that I > am buying for them and know the difference in which ones have fillers > or things that won't be absorbed by the body? How can I learn how to > read a label and know what the best highest grade possible is and > where to buy it? I have looked at Shaklee, Herbalife, Health food > stores. I just don't know what I am looking for or how to know a > quality product. Please help me. Thanks Terri > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Thanks for the name of the chemo drug, I wasn't looking forward to the time I would need to find it. As for keeping a positive outlook, my Qi Gong teacher once told me not to overlook the placebo effect. In western society we make fun of it but in reality , if you step back for a moment and look at it, you realize just how powerful the mind can be that it can act as a very powerful drug when it can be fooled into thinking it is receiving a drug. That is just scratching the surface as taking a fake pill in place of a real one is a mere parlor trick compared to training the mind to do all sorts of things. I think a positive outlook is essential for recovery. BOB > Bob, > > Your advice to Peggy is excellent. > As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very rational > to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either > chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell the > patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change over the > next few years as experience and additional studies enter the picture, or as > lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients though > would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it is good > medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one can deny > the psychological component of regaining health. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Thanks for the name of the chemo drug, I wasn't looking forward to the time I would need to find it. As for keeping a positive outlook, my Qi Gong teacher once told me not to overlook the placebo effect. In western society we make fun of it but in reality , if you step back for a moment and look at it, you realize just how powerful the mind can be that it can act as a very powerful drug when it can be fooled into thinking it is receiving a drug. That is just scratching the surface as taking a fake pill in place of a real one is a mere parlor trick compared to training the mind to do all sorts of things. I think a positive outlook is essential for recovery. BOB > Bob, > > Your advice to Peggy is excellent. > As to the methotrexate and folic acid, it would have been very rational > to suppress folic acid during the early methotrexate years as either > chemical can occupy the same receptor. Should the physician tell the > patient that he/she has no idea how this recommendation will change over the > next few years as experience and additional studies enter the picture, or as > lassitude, politics and economics muddy the water? Most patients though > would rather hear assertive dicta from their physician. Perhaps it is good > medicine to overstate positive expectations to the patient. No one can deny > the psychological component of regaining health. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pdurant@... writes: > I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of > an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he > recommended Usana for my husband's supplements. > This is what I found on their website.... The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your ability to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer base along with an organization of Associates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pdurant@... writes: > I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of > an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and he > recommended Usana for my husband's supplements. > This is what I found on their website.... The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your ability to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer base along with an organization of Associates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 In a message dated 4/24/03 8:47:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pdurant@... writes: > If my doctor makes some > money when we buy the product, I don't care. It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the point that I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision based on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other hand, this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find that out from an independent source whenever possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 In a message dated 4/24/03 8:47:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pdurant@... writes: > If my doctor makes some > money when we buy the product, I don't care. It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the point that I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision based on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other hand, this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find that out from an independent source whenever possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted with them. If it is a multi-level company, I don't care. If my doctor makes some money when we buy the product, I don't care. I believe he also makes money when he charges us for an office visit - does that make him bad? I believe Shaklee, Herbalife and others mentioned by Terri are also structured that way. In addition, health food stores make a profit as does every company making and/or selling a product. Show me a vitamin/supplement provider that doesn't make a profit on their sales and share that profit with their distributors or employees - I'd be interested to see how long they are in business. Peggy szukidavis@... wrote: > In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > pdurant@... writes: > > > > I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of > > an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and > he > > recommended Usana for my husband's supplements. > > > This is what I found on their website.... > The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your > > ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your > ability > to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer > base > along with an organization of Associates. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted with them. If it is a multi-level company, I don't care. If my doctor makes some money when we buy the product, I don't care. I believe he also makes money when he charges us for an office visit - does that make him bad? I believe Shaklee, Herbalife and others mentioned by Terri are also structured that way. In addition, health food stores make a profit as does every company making and/or selling a product. Show me a vitamin/supplement provider that doesn't make a profit on their sales and share that profit with their distributors or employees - I'd be interested to see how long they are in business. Peggy szukidavis@... wrote: > In a message dated 4/23/03 11:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > pdurant@... writes: > > > > I'm not an expert but I believe my family doctor is somewhat of > > an expert. He's been studying nutritional medicine for 13 years and > he > > recommended Usana for my husband's supplements. > > > This is what I found on their website.... > The income you receive from USANA will be in direct proportion to your > > ability to recommend the USANA products to your customers, and your > ability > to build an organization of Associates who, like you, build a customer > base > along with an organization of Associates. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 In a message dated 4/24/03 9:35:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pdurant@... writes: > I feel pretty > sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have > been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional > supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the > Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder. I am sure that what you are using is a good product. We just don't know if there is a better one/ comparable but less expensive etc because your doctor is tied in with this company. Hopefully he did his research and is offering both quality and a means to earn extra income at the same time. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 In a message dated 4/24/03 9:35:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pdurant@... writes: > I feel pretty > sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have > been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional > supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the > Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder. I am sure that what you are using is a good product. We just don't know if there is a better one/ comparable but less expensive etc because your doctor is tied in with this company. Hopefully he did his research and is offering both quality and a means to earn extra income at the same time. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 - Maybe I over reacted to what I took as criticism when you were just trying to alert me to possible ulterior motives. I feel pretty sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder. I didn't feel we had time to research all the companies out there, nor did we have the slightest idea what exactly Tim should be taking. I was just grateful that our doctor had been studying the subject for a long time and had formed some definite ideas about what would be the most helpful program for my husband's situation. As has been stated here and other places, most MD's know next to nothing about nutrition - to have one that has taken a special interest in the subject is a blessing. Prior to this he had recommended flaxseed oil, antioxidants and vitamins when our son who is an athlete was training intensely and finding himself vulnerable to infections. But he did not specify any particular brand or company then - I suppose because it was not a life and death situation. You are right, thought, it is always good to be cautious and I may decide later to switch suppliers if I can find one that has the same quality and kind of supplements for a lower price. Thanks - Peggy szukidavis@... wrote: > It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the > point that > I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision > based > on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other > hand, > this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find > that > out from an independent source whenever possible. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 - Maybe I over reacted to what I took as criticism when you were just trying to alert me to possible ulterior motives. I feel pretty sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder. I didn't feel we had time to research all the companies out there, nor did we have the slightest idea what exactly Tim should be taking. I was just grateful that our doctor had been studying the subject for a long time and had formed some definite ideas about what would be the most helpful program for my husband's situation. As has been stated here and other places, most MD's know next to nothing about nutrition - to have one that has taken a special interest in the subject is a blessing. Prior to this he had recommended flaxseed oil, antioxidants and vitamins when our son who is an athlete was training intensely and finding himself vulnerable to infections. But he did not specify any particular brand or company then - I suppose because it was not a life and death situation. You are right, thought, it is always good to be cautious and I may decide later to switch suppliers if I can find one that has the same quality and kind of supplements for a lower price. Thanks - Peggy szukidavis@... wrote: > It isn't a question of being paid for one's services. I think the > point that > I was trying to make is that your doctor may not be making a decision > based > on the best product available but on a personal agenda. On the other > hand, > this product may be as good or better than most. I would like to find > that > out from an independent source whenever possible. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 At 12:35 PM 4/24/03 +0000, you wrote: > From: " Peggy C. Durant " <pdurant@...> >Subject: Re: Re: Advice needed > >I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my >doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in >our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the >company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted >with them. > >If it is a multi-level company, I don't care. Peggy, The " marketplace " is lacking quality products, period. Thankfully, there are still some companies that provide excellent products, and yes, some of them are MLM. The accusation by anyone that people who sell MLM products, or that these companies are out to make money, are ridiculous when you consider that pharmaceutical companies are extremely predatory, and their financial fortunes control the education of every single " licensed " physician in this country, period. There just isn't any lucid comparison of the two. Chemo has a 3% cure rate, period. That's worse than any study on the effects of prayer in the same conditions. You are better off PRAYING than using chemo. And radiation isn't any better. I've been on this list for nearly FOUR YEARS, and still see people jumping off cliffs to use chemo and radiation, regardless of all the information posted here that spells out the destruction it causes. Personally, I have yet to meet ONE person who's used chemo or radiation and lived to talk about it. The opposite is true of people who have used countless other " natural therapies " . Be sure of this, if anyone using an alternative treatment successfully treats themselves or another, one of two things will happen. Either the person will be drummed out of their natural society of friends, and shunned, because they survived and their companions didn't. Or they will quietly resume their lives with no fanfare about what methods they used to heal. A very tiny portion of people will participate on lists like this talking about the flax seed oil, or whatever products they used that helped them heal, but the majority will continue to jump off the cliffs ignoring all advice. The truth is, and this comes from marketing research, so we can trust following the money trail, most people, over 85% use alternative treatments to mitigate the side effects of their conventional treatments. For instance, herbal laxatives are used as stool softeners when pain medications and chemo drugs stop the bowel function. Reducing the function of the metal element (colon and lungs) of the body undermines the strength of the " INSPIRATIVE " function of the body, according to Traditional Chinese Medicine. It also keeps the body (read, soul and spirit) from being able to RELEASE and REMOVE waste. The way through disease is THROUGH it, not medicating and stopping it's natural course. I could continue, but it feels like I'm talking to the wind every time I post here. I'll end with a small thought. Disease, including Cancer is the body's attempt at creating balance, and keeping the body alive. The cancer is a NEEDFUL thing to protect the body from an all out assault on all it's organ systems. Until we start dealing with cancer as part of the cure that the body is creating to survive, we'll never be able to " FIGHT " it. It's obscene to fight what the body is doing to HEAL. The body is NOT profane, and it's NOT the enemy. The body is a magical organism of perfection, healing and protection. Bringing the body into balance heals disease. If you want to heal, restore the vital force of the body, by removing impediments and nourishing it. It's my opinion that you'll need the assistance of a skilled homeopath to address the emotional aspects of your disease and other " vibrational " products that remove toxins safely. The body will do the rest. My one prayer for healing in this lifetime is that we heal our emotional and spiritual depravity, because treating the body like pieces and parts with chemicals and organic solutions is part of the diseased process that keeps us all slaves to masters that we can't fight or even see. Imagine what a world without cancer or disease would be like?? If you really understood what I'm saying, you'd know that I'm talking about the collapse of the economic structure of the world. What would we have in it's place? Happy healthy people to fight in wars? So, you see....... disease is a needful thing. It's part of the structure of known things, that you rarely consider. Disease fills a " need " in our society, and it's about balance. Right now, in this moment in our history, without disease, our world would spin wildly out of control. Because we have no emotional or spiritual framework which would make us free. This is why I see homeopathy and vibrational products as the only possible solution to our " disease " . We must first learn what it FEELS like to be well. And we must change from our emotions and spirit first. As above so below. The body only follows what's already in the spirit and emotions. If the spirit and emotions are diseased, out of balance, toxic, blocked, malnourished, then we must have disease in the physical body. As much as I read this list, I rarely, if ever, see anyone discuss WHOLENESS or BALANCE as a cure for cancer. You'd think that out of the hundreds of people here, there would be more than a handful who understand and break the silence. We're not pieces and parts, we're vibrational in nature, and dense forms of energy, not a cancer to be cut, burned or poisoned. We are holy. being and becoming....... whole, Moe " Field is the only reality, there is no physical matter, only denser and denser fields. " ~ Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 At 12:35 PM 4/24/03 +0000, you wrote: > From: " Peggy C. Durant " <pdurant@...> >Subject: Re: Re: Advice needed > >I am a purchaser of the products based on the recommendation of my >doctor who has been a much needed help during the most stressful time in >our lives. I do not know anything about the structure of the >company...just passing along information as to how I became acquainted >with them. > >If it is a multi-level company, I don't care. Peggy, The " marketplace " is lacking quality products, period. Thankfully, there are still some companies that provide excellent products, and yes, some of them are MLM. The accusation by anyone that people who sell MLM products, or that these companies are out to make money, are ridiculous when you consider that pharmaceutical companies are extremely predatory, and their financial fortunes control the education of every single " licensed " physician in this country, period. There just isn't any lucid comparison of the two. Chemo has a 3% cure rate, period. That's worse than any study on the effects of prayer in the same conditions. You are better off PRAYING than using chemo. And radiation isn't any better. I've been on this list for nearly FOUR YEARS, and still see people jumping off cliffs to use chemo and radiation, regardless of all the information posted here that spells out the destruction it causes. Personally, I have yet to meet ONE person who's used chemo or radiation and lived to talk about it. The opposite is true of people who have used countless other " natural therapies " . Be sure of this, if anyone using an alternative treatment successfully treats themselves or another, one of two things will happen. Either the person will be drummed out of their natural society of friends, and shunned, because they survived and their companions didn't. Or they will quietly resume their lives with no fanfare about what methods they used to heal. A very tiny portion of people will participate on lists like this talking about the flax seed oil, or whatever products they used that helped them heal, but the majority will continue to jump off the cliffs ignoring all advice. The truth is, and this comes from marketing research, so we can trust following the money trail, most people, over 85% use alternative treatments to mitigate the side effects of their conventional treatments. For instance, herbal laxatives are used as stool softeners when pain medications and chemo drugs stop the bowel function. Reducing the function of the metal element (colon and lungs) of the body undermines the strength of the " INSPIRATIVE " function of the body, according to Traditional Chinese Medicine. It also keeps the body (read, soul and spirit) from being able to RELEASE and REMOVE waste. The way through disease is THROUGH it, not medicating and stopping it's natural course. I could continue, but it feels like I'm talking to the wind every time I post here. I'll end with a small thought. Disease, including Cancer is the body's attempt at creating balance, and keeping the body alive. The cancer is a NEEDFUL thing to protect the body from an all out assault on all it's organ systems. Until we start dealing with cancer as part of the cure that the body is creating to survive, we'll never be able to " FIGHT " it. It's obscene to fight what the body is doing to HEAL. The body is NOT profane, and it's NOT the enemy. The body is a magical organism of perfection, healing and protection. Bringing the body into balance heals disease. If you want to heal, restore the vital force of the body, by removing impediments and nourishing it. It's my opinion that you'll need the assistance of a skilled homeopath to address the emotional aspects of your disease and other " vibrational " products that remove toxins safely. The body will do the rest. My one prayer for healing in this lifetime is that we heal our emotional and spiritual depravity, because treating the body like pieces and parts with chemicals and organic solutions is part of the diseased process that keeps us all slaves to masters that we can't fight or even see. Imagine what a world without cancer or disease would be like?? If you really understood what I'm saying, you'd know that I'm talking about the collapse of the economic structure of the world. What would we have in it's place? Happy healthy people to fight in wars? So, you see....... disease is a needful thing. It's part of the structure of known things, that you rarely consider. Disease fills a " need " in our society, and it's about balance. Right now, in this moment in our history, without disease, our world would spin wildly out of control. Because we have no emotional or spiritual framework which would make us free. This is why I see homeopathy and vibrational products as the only possible solution to our " disease " . We must first learn what it FEELS like to be well. And we must change from our emotions and spirit first. As above so below. The body only follows what's already in the spirit and emotions. If the spirit and emotions are diseased, out of balance, toxic, blocked, malnourished, then we must have disease in the physical body. As much as I read this list, I rarely, if ever, see anyone discuss WHOLENESS or BALANCE as a cure for cancer. You'd think that out of the hundreds of people here, there would be more than a handful who understand and break the silence. We're not pieces and parts, we're vibrational in nature, and dense forms of energy, not a cancer to be cut, burned or poisoned. We are holy. being and becoming....... whole, Moe " Field is the only reality, there is no physical matter, only denser and denser fields. " ~ Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 I Use Usana also. I feel it's too bad they chose to market via MLM, I wish they wouldn't. But it is a great product. You don't have to get involved witht he MLM, you can just be a retail customer. Virginia > In a message dated 4/24/03 9:35:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > pdurant@c... writes: > > > > I feel pretty > > sure that our doc is not just looking out for himself in this as we have > > been his patients for 18 years and only when we asked about nutritional > > supplements following Tim's cancer diagnosis did he tell us about the > > Usana products and the hyperimmune egg powder. > > I am sure that what you are using is a good product. We just don't know if > there is a better one/ comparable but less expensive etc because your doctor > is tied in with this company. Hopefully he did his research and is offering > both quality and a means to earn extra income at the same time. > Good luck. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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