Re: I should marry my kind?

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the world of bigotry.

Now you know what African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, etc. go through.

In college, I dated a woman (AP) from Laos. Her parents and brothers

were mortified. First, I was a dwarf; second, I was Caucasian; third,

I wasn't a Buddhist. Talk about three strikes and you're out. It

eventually was too much and ended our relationship.

Bill

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:25 PM, <irish_p_butter@...> wrote:

> Hello all,

>

> Today was my Christmas work party (in between customers) and we were all

> eating food and one co-worker mentioned how she saw the discovery show about

> an lp woman smaller than me who had a baby. The baby was early and her bf

> is average height. She was then telling me how the woman doesn't know how to

> drive and felt weird being around other LP's. Another co-worker, whom is 60

> something and annoys everyone to no end, (I refer to him as Busey like

> from the show Celebrity Rehab w/Dr. Drew, he's weird that way), asked if

> people in my " community " are allowed to marry normal people. Then asked if

> dwarf women can only carry dwarf babies. Just the fact that it came from

> him annoyed me to no end, but I replied huffly we marry who we love and no,

> dwarf women can have any type of baby.

>

> It just makes me think though, if Busey thinks that, how many others

> out there do as well?? I know it is crazy to us, but don't people who think

> logically think it is crazy as well? To me it is saying I need to only

> marry blonds or I should marry blonds because I am blond as well. That is

> the dumbest reason to marry anyone! Yes, having height in common may make

> that part easier, however after being around lp guys, they are the same as

> any average height guy with wants, needs, quirks, etc. Height doesn't make

> a successful relationship.

>

> It just bothered me people out there think that, then makes me think maybe

> my average height guy friends don't ask me out or view me as datable because

> they think I only go for or should go for LP guys???

>

> It just feels like we take five steps forward and two steps back when it

> comes to social equality.

>

> Just my thought,

>

> -

[Guest guest]

I think a lot of people with different dissabilities get that " marry your

OWN KIND " mentality. I know blind people get that kind of opinions from

sighted people too.

So, according to them, if I follow the rules, I should rightly marry a

blind person with dwarfism. Gee, would kind of narrow the field a bit

wouldn't it? LOL! Know any blind single dwarf men? (Not that I'm looking,

but if I were, it would certainly be a challenge)

Sabrena

[Guest guest]

Great topic. Try this : Your own friends and family - even

parents - thinking that you should stick to marrying/dating LP's.

That's what I've had to face most of my life, especially in a very

traditional Chinese community. It's frustrating to fathom bigotry

happening in your own backyard.

[funny considering I've only dated AP men for the last 2 years..]

But to my amazement, a few of my close, educated (AP) friends have

also expressed delight when I date LPs - and oddly, seem disappointed

when I date AP's. Then I wonder how many people in general secretly

think the same way?

So I totally understand your thoughts on the issue - b/c it's

basically a " slap in the face " saying we are not good enough to date

AP's or people not of " our kind. " I sense a lot of it is the whole

so-called, " Brad-Angelina " factor - that people of equal status quo,

whether that is physically, ethnically or financially marry alike.

When we do not fit in that stereotype, it makes them uncomfortable

like it's our fault.

If only these ignorant people could understand how difficult dating is

for LPs to begin with, then maybe they can eliminate such idiotic

generalizations.

Irene

> > Hello all,

> >

> > Today was my Christmas work party (in between customers) and we

were all

> > eating food and one co-worker mentioned how she saw the discovery

show about

> > an lp woman smaller than me who had a baby. The baby was early

and her bf

> > is average height. She was then telling me how the woman doesn't

know how to

> > drive and felt weird being around other LP's. Another co-worker,

whom is 60

> > something and annoys everyone to no end, (I refer to him as

Busey like

> > from the show Celebrity Rehab w/Dr. Drew, he's weird that way),

asked if

> > people in my " community " are allowed to marry normal people. Then

asked if

> > dwarf women can only carry dwarf babies. Just the fact that it

came from

> > him annoyed me to no end, but I replied huffly we marry who we

love and no,

> > dwarf women can have any type of baby.

> >

> > It just makes me think though, if Busey thinks that, how many

others

> > out there do as well?? I know it is crazy to us, but don't people

who think

> > logically think it is crazy as well? To me it is saying I need to

only

> > marry blonds or I should marry blonds because I am blond as well.

That is

> > the dumbest reason to marry anyone! Yes, having height in common

may make

> > that part easier, however after being around lp guys, they are the

same as

> > any average height guy with wants, needs, quirks, etc. Height

doesn't make

> > a successful relationship.

> >

> > It just bothered me people out there think that, then makes me

think maybe

> > my average height guy friends don't ask me out or view me as

datable because

> > they think I only go for or should go for LP guys???

> >

> > It just feels like we take five steps forward and two steps back

when it

> > comes to social equality.

> >

> > Just my thought,

> >

> > -

>

[Guest guest]

All my life until now, I've always dated tall average men.  I recently decided

to date within LP's.  In my opinion, the tall average men just don't have an

understanding as to what it is like to be short as we may have a hard

understanding what it is like to be tall.

 

I feel that dating within LP gives us a better understanding and caring for one

another.   I don't feel that it's a matter of being " good enough " -- that's not

the case.   For example, when your significant other feels pain, I feel the pain

as well because of being the same stature.  

 

I've noticed that it is kind of difficult to date with LP because of the long

distance relationship, but if two people have enough love for eachother, it can

work out.   

 

This is only my opinion and everyone has a right to voice their opinion.

 

Happy Holidays to All,

 

Angie 

From: elevatia <elevatia@...>

Subject: Re: I should marry my kind?

dwarfism

Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:54 AM

Great topic. Try this : Your own friends and family - even

parents - thinking that you should stick to marrying/dating LP's.

That's what I've had to face most of my life, especially in a very

traditional Chinese community. It's frustrating to fathom bigotry

happening in your own backyard.

[funny considering I've only dated AP men for the last 2 years..]

But to my amazement, a few of my close, educated (AP) friends have

also expressed delight when I date LPs - and oddly, seem disappointed

when I date AP's. Then I wonder how many people in general secretly

think the same way?

So I totally understand your thoughts on the issue - b/c it's

basically a " slap in the face " saying we are not good enough to date

AP's or people not of " our kind. " I sense a lot of it is the whole

so-called, " Brad-Angelina " factor - that people of equal status quo,

whether that is physically, ethnically or financially marry alike.

When we do not fit in that stereotype, it makes them uncomfortable

like it's our fault.

If only these ignorant people could understand how difficult dating is

for LPs to begin with, then maybe they can eliminate such idiotic

generalizations.

Irene

> > Hello all,

> >

> > Today was my Christmas work party (in between customers) and we

were all

> > eating food and one co-worker mentioned how she saw the discovery

show about

> > an lp woman smaller than me who had a baby. The baby was early

and her bf

> > is average height. She was then telling me how the woman doesn't

know how to

> > drive and felt weird being around other LP's. Another co-worker,

whom is 60

> > something and annoys everyone to no end, (I refer to him as

Busey like

> > from the show Celebrity Rehab w/Dr. Drew, he's weird that way),

asked if

> > people in my " community " are allowed to marry normal people. Then

asked if

> > dwarf women can only carry dwarf babies. Just the fact that it

came from

> > him annoyed me to no end, but I replied huffly we marry who we

love and no,

> > dwarf women can have any type of baby.

> >

> > It just makes me think though, if Busey thinks that, how many

others

> > out there do as well?? I know it is crazy to us, but don't people

who think

> > logically think it is crazy as well? To me it is saying I need to

only

> > marry blonds or I should marry blonds because I am blond as well.

That is

> > the dumbest reason to marry anyone! Yes, having height in common

may make

> > that part easier, however after being around lp guys, they are the

same as

> > any average height guy with wants, needs, quirks, etc. Height

doesn't make

> > a successful relationship.

> >

> > It just bothered me people out there think that, then makes me

think maybe

> > my average height guy friends don't ask me out or view me as

datable because

> > they think I only go for or should go for LP guys???

> >

> > It just feels like we take five steps forward and two steps back

when it

> > comes to social equality.

> >

> > Just my thought,

> >

> > -

>

[Guest guest]

Oh my gosh, if I thought about it too much I'd start crying, especially since my

ex was tall.  There were other reasons why it ended, on the best note it could,

but I'll always wonder if my height played an issue.  With him, he always told

me it wasn't an issue and I knew that, but when he told his family, did that

some how play a part?  I feel like there are two fronts, finding a tall guy who

doesn't care, then dealing with his family.  I can't believe my ex is and would

be the only tall guy that will ever want to date me, that seems statisticially

impossible, but yet it's how it feels.

 

It goes back to thinking that as an LP woman I am stuck; can't really find tall

men because I seem out of their dating pool, and can't really find LP men

as SOME seem to be very intimidated by educated, confident, independent LP

women, especially at conferences when it seems it is all about a booty call.  So

whom does that leave?

 

It's dealing with that on top of dealing with the Busey's of the world.

 

-

[Guest guest]

People assume and I got together because we are both LP, but I truly

believe that's only a small (no pun intended) part of it. We have a deep

respect for each other, we have similar outlooks on life, we make each other

laugh, we're comfortable together . . things like that are so important. I

think that if two people can work out things like that in a crazy world, who

cares about height?

Ignorance is definitely still alive and well - I think we can only keep

chipping away at it bit by bit.

As for the young woman with the baby, I enjoyed that show. I think she is a

very smart young lady and will figure out her own issues - as we have all

done. I had two regrets about the show - they seemed to assume that the

difficulties with driving, etc. were more major than (I think) they are.

It's a pain, yes, but it's a rite of passage for us, not an enduring

trauma. Also, I wish they had mentioned that her reaction to meeting other

LPs is typical. I think most of us that didn't meet other LPs until we were

adults had a moment of wanting to scream and run - I certainly would have

had my mother not been standing right behind me. :-) It is a shock, but

most of us get past it and soon have strong friendships with people who

share so many experiences with us.

Alyce

On 12/19/08, irish_p_butter@... <irish_p_butter@...> wrote:

>

> Oh my gosh, if I thought about it too much I'd start crying, especially

> since my ex was tall. There were other reasons why it ended, on the best

> note it could, but I'll always wonder if my height played an issue. With

> him, he always told me it wasn't an issue and I knew that, but when he told

> his family, did that some how play a part? I feel like there are two

> fronts, finding a tall guy who doesn't care, then dealing with his family.

> I can't believe my ex is and would be the only tall guy that will ever want

> to date me, that seems statisticially impossible, but yet it's how it feels.

>

> It goes back to thinking that as an LP woman I am stuck; can't really find

> tall men because I seem out of their dating pool, and can't really find LP

> men as SOME seem to be very intimidated by educated, confident, independent

> LP women, especially at conferences when it seems it is all about a booty

> call. So whom does that leave?

>

> It's dealing with that on top of dealing with the Busey's of the

> world.

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

To quote a deceased lp who I loved and respected much, and who for

most of his life went out with aps more than in an area as lps were

not as prevalent as they are in the city, aid the following.

We, a few of us, all lps together in a group, you should try this some

time, besides it being fun you really learn do more about the one

you're friends with too, we asked for everyone to go around and define

love in as little amount of words as one could. Some couldn't do that,

they gave these elaborate and long esoteric and poetic sentences of

what love is to them... but he said it best, I feel,

in one word-understanding.

I asked him to explain, and he did, he said, If you think about it, if

you have understanding in your love, you both have it all, whether

both are lp or you are mixed.

True love=understanding each other.

Because as I said in a previous post, which was a joke actually but

its meaning is true nonetheless, You arms may not capture me as they

can't fully wrap around me, but you may capture my heart.

And true understanding=knows no height

luv, grady:)

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

I have been staying quiet on this site for a long time, but I feel what you

are feeling in this regard, and want to step in a bit.

I had a LP woman friend who used to say, " The LP men stay away from me in

droves. " Ditto for me. Like you , she and I are educated, confident,

independent women, so perhaps that is the reason. But I have to admit, being

rejected or shunned by LP men always hurt more than being rejected and

shunned by tall men. So, I just stopped even thinking of dating LP men. It

s kind of the theory of you stop banging your head against a brick wall

because it feels good to stop.

My current love interest is 6'3 " . I admit, I feel awkward at times when we

are out together (which is not often, as he is in Afghanistan and Iraq

training the dogs who detect bombs- YIKES!), but it is because of what

others think, not what he thinks or feels. To him, I am the most beautiful

woman on the planet. Will I marry him? Probably not. At this point,

marriage seems long ago and far away. But will I enjoy his attention and

company while I can? You bet!

There will always be Busey's in the world, . I have learned to

ignore and even feel sorry for them. You are beautiful, so don't let them

get you down!

Blessings,

Marcia

-- Re: Re: I should marry my kind?

Oh my gosh, if I thought about it too much I'd start crying, especially

since my ex was tall. There were other reasons why it ended, on the best

note it could, but I'll always wonder if my height played an issue. With

him, he always told me it wasn't an issue and I knew that, but when he told

his family, did that some how play a part? I feel like there are two fronts

finding a tall guy who doesn't care, then dealing with his family. I can't

believe my ex is and would be the only tall guy that will ever want to date

me, that seems statisticially impossible, but yet it's how it feels.

It goes back to thinking that as an LP woman I am stuck; can't really find

tall men because I seem out of their dating pool, and can't really find LP

men as SOME seem to be very intimidated by educated, confident, independent

LP women, especially at conferences when it seems it is all about a booty

call. So whom does that leave?

It's dealing with that on top of dealing with the Busey's of the world.

-

[Guest guest]

Replying before reading any other replies here.......

But to me, that smacks of blatant ignorance! Marry your own kind?

Human? Yeah , why not?

I understand that not all people are blessed with the same amount of

intelligence, but I would be taken aback if I heard comments like that

as well. He even sounds too stupid for a basic biology lesson!

Good on you for not losing your rag - or maybe I'm a bit hormonal today!

Caela

>

> Hello all,

>  

> Today was my Christmas work party (in between customers) and we were

all eating food and one co-worker mentioned how she saw the discovery

show about an lp woman smaller than me who had a baby.  The baby was

early and her bf is average height. She was then telling me how the

woman doesn't know how to drive and felt weird being around other

LP's.  Another co-worker, whom is 60 something and annoys everyone to

no end, (I refer to him as Busey like from the show Celebrity

Rehab w/Dr. Drew, he's weird that way), asked if people in my

" community " are allowed to marry normal people.  Then asked if dwarf

women can only carry dwarf babies.  Just the fact that it came from

him annoyed me to no end, but I replied huffly we marry who we love

and no, dwarf women can have any type of baby.

>  

> It just makes me think though, if Busey thinks that, how many

others out there do as well??  I know it is crazy to us, but don't

people who think logically think it is crazy as well?  To me it is

saying I need to only marry blonds or I should marry blonds because I

am blond as well. That is the dumbest reason to marry anyone!  Yes,

having height in common may make that part easier, however after being

around lp guys, they are the same as any average height guy with

wants, needs, quirks, etc.  Height doesn't make a successful

relationship. 

>  

> It just bothered me people out there think that, then makes me think

maybe my average height guy friends don't ask me out or view me as

datable because they think I only go for or should go for LP guys???

>  

> It just feels like we take five steps forward and two steps back

when it comes to social equality.

>  

> Just my thought,

>  

> -

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What if you are an LP guy who just is not attracted to LP ladies?

[Guest guest]

Then you are just as shallow as the AP women who won't date LP men.

Why limit yourself based on superficial characteristics?

Bill

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 2:55 PM, E. <davidwayne1977@...> wrote:

> What if you are an LP guy who just is not attracted to LP ladies?

[Guest guest]

I agree that people are or are not attracted to others, it is just a fact of

life.  However I would be interested in the reason behind your thoughts that you

are not attracted to LP women? Do you have LP female friends or been

around other LP's? I think it is hard to classify LP women as one entity as

there are many types of dwarfism and each type has its each physical

characteristics, like for example; an achon and a pseudo and a diastrophic to

name a few, each look so different.

 

Is it purely physical that you do not want a woman your height or shorter and

you only want taller women, or, just throwing it out, that in some subconscious

way it would make something in your mind realize you are not like everyone else

and it is a mirror you do not want to look into, that, if you are with AP women,

that you feel subconsciously more " normal " ?

 

I am just asking if that is a possibility, as it was for me back in the day. I

am open to dating both, but sometimes I wonder if I do end up with an LP man, if

my family would think that's all I could get? Or really I don't want to deal

with the " ahhh how cute " factor. However, that is my problem I need to deal

with, not anyone elses, and when everythng is said and done I don't think it

would be a deciding factor in whom I'd date. I think when you fall in love with

someone, your heart really sees the beauty in the person and the rest just fades

away.

From: E. <davidwayne1977@...>

Subject: Re: I should marry my kind?

dwarfism

Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 4:55 PM

What if you are an LP guy who just is not attracted to LP ladies?

[Guest guest]

Long ago and far away, Adam was sitting

on a log in the Garden of Eden, feeding

the squirrels some salted peanuts.

Along comes Eve, and she has brought

Adam a little bunch of flowers (Forget Me Nots!)

that She just picked. Eve hugs Adam tenderly,

and kisses him gently on the cheek. Then She

asks Adam: " Do you really and trully love me? "

Adam replies: " There is nobody else! "

And here we are, still at it!

              Best Regards To All!

                                                   - D -

[Guest guest]

Since I'm on break and have nothing better to do than analyze, I think

I'm going to take a gander at your thoughts regarding LP men and

dating .

I recently had an interesting talk with my AP brother (who has been

living with his current GF for almost 3 yrs, dated total of 4-5 yrs)

about men and their " dating pool. " To be quite blunt... for the

majority, (AP) men will try to date as " high " as they can go, meaning

that they try to date a woman who one, is attractive than him, and

two, can elevate his status - whether that is by physical looks,

education or even money. [The third is a viable mate for producing

offspring, but I'll save that topic for another time] This has been

well documented in a book called " The Evolution of Desire " by

Buss which explains in great detail how men and women differentiate

when looking for a mate down to science. Women of course, look for

other traits such as security, companionship, ability to provide and

status as well. Much of this is actually genetically encoded into us,

and some of the behavior is wired or taught out later to boys as they

start noticing the opposite sex.

As a result, it is *very* difficult for LP women to date AP men in

this regard. As someone who has dated AP men and is currently in a

AP-LP relationship, trust me, I know.

On a deeper level, there is often an " irrational " more, emotional

reason what men are looking for in a woman. In fact, there have been

numerous studies that women are actually far more sensible and logical

in how they treat the relationship process (going from dating to

exclusivity to marriage) than men, which doesn't make sense since

women are usually labeled as too emotional. With dating, men tend to

be completely irrational, " going with how they feel " and why they can

go from casual to committed, but then breakup out of nowhere when the

spark dies.

My brother and other guy friends echo a lot of this same sentiment. So

guys will keep trying to get a better looking or higher status woman

as much as they can - or until they get dumped enough - then maybe

they'll be more realistic in their expectations. So for a LP man who

doesn't find LP women attractive... I wonder how far he's going to

succeed with AP women the dating pool (echoing BJ's thoughts). It's

certainly not impossible, given I know a few LP men who are with AP

women, but I believe it is a challenge.

Therefore, it makes some sense why there is a lot of attention when a

LP man brings a AP woman/mate to a convention. [i'm not stating my

opinion on this, just an observation] It comes down to the simplest

primal reaction. And perhaps why this poster - - prefers to date

AP women?

However, I sense most LP men like to date women of the same stature

and do not have as high expectations in dating, given limitations in

geography, common values/common interests and our small population. In

that regard, they may actually be more sensible than the actual AP man

in not playing games or hard-to-get.

So please excuse the length of this post. Of course, men may feel free

to counter any points, but I just found this from my recent readings

on dating and evolution. It all has been very interesting learning

experience and has given a new perspective for me to say the least.

Regards,

Irene

>

> From: E. <davidwayne1977@...>

> Subject: Re: I should marry my kind?

> dwarfism

> Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 4:55 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> What if you are an LP guy who just is not attracted to LP ladies?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been waiting to comment on this (literally biting my fingers, so

to speak) to see how this thread plays out.

I think Irene has touched on something really key here, and I only

want to elaborate a little (plus offer up a much-needed defense of LP

men, who've been bashed a little -- not by her).

I think there are a few forces at work which all intersect at an LPA conference:

1. Population density. Depending on who you read, it is estimated

there are between 30, 000 and 100,000 dwarfs in the U.S. (or between

600,000 and 2 million worldwide -- that's .01 to .035 percent of the

population). By way of comparison, New York City alone has 8 million

people, which means only 267 to 900 dwarfs in the entire metro area.

A smaller city where I live (Corvallis Oregon) would have between 1

and 4 (it actually has four, and I know all of them -- three attend

the state university). Let's spit it down the middle: say there are

60,000 dwarfs in the U.S.

2. Eligible partners. Take the 60,000 and assume (unless you are

bi-sexual) that only half of them will be your gender preference. So

that leaves 30,000. Take that number and weed out the kids (normally,

that would be about half, but since the most common type of dwarfism,

achon, occurs only once in most non-LP families, we'll adjust it to a

third). So that leaves 10,000. Sort again for again age (say you

don't want to date anyone -- I'll be generous -- over 15 years on

either side of your age) that leaves approximately 5,000 people. Sort

again for compatibility (I'm just taking a shot here, but I'll guess

that people find only about 1/5 of the eligible singles they meet

worth a second look) and that leaves 1000.

3. Distance. Okay, so now you've got 1000 eligible partners, spread

out over 50 states. Some will be more highly concentrated, like

California and the East Coast, but you get the general idea. That

leaves an average of 20 per state (but some states like Montana will

have less, and Texas more). So just meeting another dwarf in your

home state can be a major undertaking.

4. Meeting time. Now, the only real way to get those eligible dwarfs

together in one spot is an LPA conference. BUT, out of that original

60, 000, only about 3,000 are current paid members, LP only (about

10,000 are on the database as former and current members -- including

AP siblings, parents, etc). And, only a third of those can go to an

LPA conference in a given year. So that means only 1000 actual LPs

show up at a conference, and after sorting for eligibility, that

leaves about 18 worth looking into. So, now you have a week to get to

know 18 different guys or gals, and then make a determination as to

whether they are worth your time, money and effort to get to know

better. AND you're competing with other guys/gals in your age range

for the same people.

5. Pressure. One week out of 52 puts a lot a pressure on a person

(especially LP men, who have to do the " asking " in this culture).

Most APs have the whole year to sort out those who they find

compatible, AND they have a MUCH larger pool of people to choose from

(about 50,000 times more people).

So, given the pressure, time, distance, eligibility, and density, is

it any wonder that most LPs (men and women) find it easier to say the

" heck with it " and just try dating APs? Even if only 1 percent of APs

are willing to give LPs a chance (that is, they overcome superficial

characteristics) that still leaves 500 times more eligible people to

date, spread out over 52 weeks. Now, I think statistics will bear out

that it is easier for LP women than LP men to date APs (because of

heightism and sexism -- LP men, like most men, are concerned about

looks over personality, whereas AP women care more about height than

looks). In fact, it is just easier for women to date than men (my LP

stepdaughter got ten times more dates in high school than I did, and

it wasn't for lack of trying).

Now, I do think there are additional (and sad) forces at work in the

LPA world. One, I think some of the more " athletic " dwarf types

(especially men) try to date only APs, because of pyscho-social issues

(I think they feel less " disabled " and to resort to dating an LP makes

them feel less " normal. " ). It's a male, sexist, " conquest " issue. AP

women represent a bigger notch on the belt (no pun intended).

On the flip side, heightism still exists in LPA. I've met LP women

who will not date an LP man who is shorter than her. Also, to a

lesser extent, money comes into play. I've met LP women who will not

date an LP man who makes less money than them.

Given that there are so few of us, and that we are so spread out, and

all of the above named factors, I find it incredible that so many LP

couples do meet and marry. And stay married. I did the first part,

but failed in the second (an unspoken secret about LPA is the divorce

rate).

So there you have it, from an un-scientific perspective. (Sorry, that

was a little more " elaboration " than intended.)

Bill

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene and all,

 

Not a problem with the length, it was good to read lol.  I understand what you

are saying about " dating up " , my question is what about me counts me out from

being " up " ?  Just because I am short? Height is a funny thing because my friend

is 6'1 and she is too tall for guys.

 

I've seen discovery channel programs about attraction and how people choose

their mate based on who would succeed in " survival of the fittest " as well as

body symmetry. I guess I just don't see myself how AP's see me. I am not some

disabled helpless girl.  I do think highly of myself, but because I do, it feels

like sometimes my expectations and the disappointments that come from them not

being met seems more tragic because of my own self image.  If I thought I didn't

have a chance with AP men, if I didn't think I was good enough, then I wouldn't

have far to fall in my disappointments, however, I think that all of us are good

enough, because, at least in our mind we are their equals.

 

Of course we have certain attractions, but for me, my criteria must be different

from average people. I'd date a man in a wheelchair, I'd date someone missing a

limb, it doesn't bother me.  Heck, my good friend Cheri (AP) is marrying a great

guy who happens to be paralyzed from the waist down.  She could careless, she

loves him for who he is. I think what is most important for me looks wise is

having proper hygene, a healthy weight (not a model, just healthy), and someone

that takes pride in their appearance.

 

I also know an LP man who is married to an AP woman and they are awesome

together, it didn't bother her one bit and that rocks. Maybe it is just a

person's own maturity when they realize what really counts and what does not.  I

can say back 7 or 8 years ago I wanted a man with a certain hair color, eye

color, etc, but now, not even an issue.

 

Interesting point on LP men being more sensible.

 

I'd still love to know how LP men think of LP women and their experiences in

dating.

 

-

[Guest guest]

LOL Wow Bill,

 

I love the way your mind works!  I also hope you were not refering to me as LP

men bashing, because I was not, I did state " some " , not all nor do I believe

" all " of any group act in a certain manner.  The observations I made where from

what I have personally encountered. I am sure LP men can come right back and say

" some " LP women are too: fill in the blank.

 

I wish I could just ask my AP guy friends and get their honest opinion about why

they would not date me, meaning why my dwarfism is such a hinderance and what it

means to them.

 

-

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . It's a sign of a mind with too much snow and time on

my hands. LOL.

No, I wasn't specifically referring to you. I'm sort of generalizing

among posts I've seen over the months.

There are exceptions to ever rule. I've met plenty of LP men with AP

women, and AP men with LP women, and both have completely normal,

nurturing relationships.

I think you and I have a similar problem. I think *some* APs are

looking for a mate they can control and dominate. So when it comes to

LPs, APs immediately think (subconsciously) that we are easier to

control. But since we both are educated, intelligent, and fiercely

independent, it scares off many of the looky-loos. Also, because of

past events (in my case, a failed marriage), we tend to be a little

more defensive, and don't tolerate BS as much. And perhaps I have a

little fear of commitment (there's at least one person on this list

nodding her head vigorously).

This is going to sound patronizing, but have patience. You're still

young. Most LPs marry at a much older average age than LPs.

Bill

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 3:52 PM, <irish_p_butter@...> wrote:

> LOL Wow Bill,

>

> I love the way your mind works! I also hope you were not refering to me as

> LP men bashing, because I was not, I did state " some " , not all nor do I

> believe " all " of any group act in a certain manner. The observations I made

> where from what I have personally encountered. I am sure LP men can come

> right back and say " some " LP women are too: fill in the blank.

>

> I wish I could just ask my AP guy friends and get their honest opinion about

> why they would not date me, meaning why my dwarfism is such a hinderance and

> what it means to them.

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am going to jump in here and say if I were not so bloody old and if I were not

married I have met several LPs I could see myself very happy with... Bill you

are one, as is Danny Black, Fred Short and Soares... Yes it is a mixed

bag but each have qualities I see as absolutely essential in a marriage of which

I could be a part..

Gotta have an IQ bigger than their shoe size

Gotta have a sense of humor that I understand.... like odd and bizarre

Gotta be involved in and be passionate about something outside yourself

Gotta be tolerant ...bigots and racism will have me old before my time... oops

too late for that already.

Gotta be LDS (OK I know I am picking and choosing to build my composite LP but

it IS my fantasy!)

Gotta like kids and animals

Gotta be creative..

Gotta be a democrat and willing to get involved

Rich would be nice but not necessary :-)

Anyway what the devil does size have to do with anything? It is about what I

could see if I were blind!

Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah to all and to all Happy New Year!

Re: Re: I should marry my kind?

I've been waiting to comment on this (literally biting my fingers, so

to speak) to see how this thread plays out.

I think Irene has touched on something really key here, and I only

want to elaborate a little (plus offer up a much-needed defense of LP

men, who've been bashed a little -- not by her).

I think there are a few forces at work which all intersect at an LPA

conference:

1. Population density. Depending on who you read, it is estimated

there are between 30, 000 and 100,000 dwarfs in the U.S. (or between

600,000 and 2 million worldwide -- that's .01 to .035 percent of the

population). By way of comparison, New York City alone has 8 million

people, which means only 267 to 900 dwarfs in the entire metro area.

A smaller city where I live (Corvallis Oregon) would have between 1

and 4 (it actually has four, and I know all of them -- three attend

the state university). Let's spit it down the middle: say there are

60,000 dwarfs in the U.S.

2. Eligible partners. Take the 60,000 and assume (unless you are

bi-sexual) that only half of them will be your gender preference. So

that leaves 30,000. Take that number and weed out the kids (normally,

that would be about half, but since the most common type of dwarfism,

achon, occurs only once in most non-LP families, we'll adjust it to a

third). So that leaves 10,000. Sort again for again age (say you

don't want to date anyone -- I'll be generous -- over 15 years on

either side of your age) that leaves approximately 5,000 people. Sort

again for compatibility (I'm just taking a shot here, but I'll guess

that people find only about 1/5 of the eligible singles they meet

worth a second look) and that leaves 1000.

3. Distance. Okay, so now you've got 1000 eligible partners, spread

out over 50 states. Some will be more highly concentrated, like

California and the East Coast, but you get the general idea. That

leaves an average of 20 per state (but some states like Montana will

have less, and Texas more). So just meeting another dwarf in your

home state can be a major undertaking.

4. Meeting time. Now, the only real way to get those eligible dwarfs

together in one spot is an LPA conference. BUT, out of that original

60, 000, only about 3,000 are current paid members, LP only (about

10,000 are on the database as former and current members -- including

AP siblings, parents, etc). And, only a third of those can go to an

LPA conference in a given year. So that means only 1000 actual LPs

show up at a conference, and after sorting for eligibility, that

leaves about 18 worth looking into. So, now you have a week to get to

know 18 different guys or gals, and then make a determination as to

whether they are worth your time, money and effort to get to know

better. AND you're competing with other guys/gals in your age range

for the same people.

5. Pressure. One week out of 52 puts a lot a pressure on a person

(especially LP men, who have to do the " asking " in this culture).

Most APs have the whole year to sort out those who they find

compatible, AND they have a MUCH larger pool of people to choose from

(about 50,000 times more people).

So, given the pressure, time, distance, eligibility, and density, is

it any wonder that most LPs (men and women) find it easier to say the

" heck with it " and just try dating APs? Even if only 1 percent of APs

are willing to give LPs a chance (that is, they overcome superficial

characteristics) that still leaves 500 times more eligible people to

date, spread out over 52 weeks. Now, I think statistics will bear out

that it is easier for LP women than LP men to date APs (because of

heightism and sexism -- LP men, like most men, are concerned about

looks over personality, whereas AP women care more about height than

looks). In fact, it is just easier for women to date than men (my LP

stepdaughter got ten times more dates in high school than I did, and

it wasn't for lack of trying).

Now, I do think there are additional (and sad) forces at work in the

LPA world. One, I think some of the more " athletic " dwarf types

(especially men) try to date only APs, because of pyscho-social issues

(I think they feel less " disabled " and to resort to dating an LP makes

them feel less " normal. " ). It's a male, sexist, " conquest " issue. AP

women represent a bigger notch on the belt (no pun intended).

On the flip side, heightism still exists in LPA. I've met LP women

who will not date an LP man who is shorter than her. Also, to a

lesser extent, money comes into play. I've met LP women who will not

date an LP man who makes less money than them.

Given that there are so few of us, and that we are so spread out, and

all of the above named factors, I find it incredible that so many LP

couples do meet and marry. And stay married. I did the first part,

but failed in the second (an unspoken secret about LPA is the divorce

rate).

So there you have it, from an un-scientific perspective. (Sorry, that

was a little more " elaboration " than intended.)

Bill

[Guest guest]

I got my numbers a little off. The stats should be .0035 percent.

That means New York has 800 to 2000. But the rest of my numbers are

correct.

Bill

> 1. Population density. Depending on who you read, it is estimated

> there are between 30, 000 and 100,000 dwarfs in the U.S. (or between

> 600,000 and 2 million worldwide -- that's .01 to .035 percent of the

> population). By way of comparison, New York City alone has 8 million

> people, which means only 267 to 900 dwarfs in the entire metro area.

> A smaller city where I live (Corvallis Oregon) would have between 1

> and 4 (it actually has four, and I know all of them -- three attend

> the state university). Let's spit it down the middle: say there are

> 60,000 dwarfs in the U.S.

[Guest guest]

No doubt we all have our laundry list, and we can see how this is made

harder when fishing in a small pond (if we stick to 'our own'). Maybe

the new year will bring the single set more fish for that pond or

better fish in the ocean.

*Sighs*, let me venture out again into the frozen tundra. How does

anyone live north of NJ!?!

>

> I am going to jump in here and say if I were not so bloody old and

if I were not married I have met several LPs I could see myself very

happy with... Bill you are one, as is Danny Black, Fred Short and

Soares... Yes it is a mixed bag but each have qualities I see

as absolutely essential in a marriage of which I could be a part..

>

> Gotta have an IQ bigger than their shoe size

> Gotta have a sense of humor that I understand.... like odd and bizarre

> Gotta be involved in and be passionate about something outside yourself

> Gotta be tolerant ...bigots and racism will have me old before my

time... oops too late for that already.

> Gotta be LDS (OK I know I am picking and choosing to build my

composite LP but it IS my fantasy!)

> Gotta like kids and animals

> Gotta be creative..

> Gotta be a democrat and willing to get involved

> Rich would be nice but not necessary :-)

>

> Anyway what the devil does size have to do with anything? It is

about what I could see if I were blind!

>

> Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah to all and to all Happy New Year!

[Guest guest]

> I wish I could just ask my AP guy friends and get their honest

opinion about why they would not date me, meaning why my dwarfism is

such a hinderance and what it means to them.

Try it. What do you have to loose if they are friends?

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm, what are the chances they'll show up in Brooklyn?? (rhetorical

question, of course). And a small percentage (at least) can have

matching laundry lists?

,

acting as if she's interested

>

> I got my numbers a little off. The stats should be .0035 percent.

> That means New York has 800 to 2000. But the rest of my numbers are

> correct.

>

> Bill

>

> > 1. Population density. Depending on who you read, it is estimated

> > there are between 30, 000 and 100,000 dwarfs in the U.S. (or

between 600,000 and 2 million worldwide -- that's .01 to .035 percent

of the population). By way of comparison, New York City alone has 8

million people, which means only 267 to 900 dwarfs in the entire metro

area.

> > A smaller city where I live (Corvallis Oregon) would have between 1

> > and 4 (it actually has four, and I know all of them -- three attend

> > the state university). Let's spit it down the middle: say there are

> > 60,000 dwarfs in the U.S.

>