Re: You can't Believe it! You can't Believe it!

[Guest guest]

--

Hey at least your mom believes it!

You ever get to the point in conversations about this where you get the feeling

people have stopped listening to the message,

and have started looking for behavioral inconsistencies? There's ususally a

slight cocking of the head....

P.S.: I believe it.

You ever get to the point ins

> My Mom just called to tell me that a worried friend just excitedly

> told her about the mold epidemic and said " The insurance companies

> have stopped issuing homeowners insurance around here. It's the

> problems with mold. Nobody knows about it - This is brand new!

> It's unbelievable! " .

> So my Mom said, " Yes, I know about it " .

> " No, you can't know about it. This is brand new. It's happening

> right now. It's changing EVERYTHING. You can't believe it. You can't

> believe it " .

> So my Mom replied;

> " Yes. I can believe it " .

> -

[Guest guest]

--

Hey at least your mom believes it!

You ever get to the point in conversations about this where you get the feeling

people have stopped listening to the message,

and have started looking for behavioral inconsistencies? There's ususally a

slight cocking of the head....

P.S.: I believe it.

You ever get to the point ins

> My Mom just called to tell me that a worried friend just excitedly

> told her about the mold epidemic and said " The insurance companies

> have stopped issuing homeowners insurance around here. It's the

> problems with mold. Nobody knows about it - This is brand new!

> It's unbelievable! " .

> So my Mom said, " Yes, I know about it " .

> " No, you can't know about it. This is brand new. It's happening

> right now. It's changing EVERYTHING. You can't believe it. You can't

> believe it " .

> So my Mom replied;

> " Yes. I can believe it " .

> -

[Guest guest]

, that is stunning, but a nice validation from your mom. We got a notice here in Las Vegas about a year ago that our insurance will not cover mold damage - not sure of the details on the policy, but I watch the walls, bathroom, roof now when it rains. Yes, folks, it does rain here and floods.

a

My Mom just called to tell me that a worried friend just excitedly told her about the mold epidemic and said "The insurance companies have stopped issuing homeowners insurance around here. It's the problems with mold. Nobody knows about it - This is brand new! It's unbelievable!".So my Mom said, "Yes, I know about it"."No, you can't know about it. This is brand new. It's happening right now. It's changing EVERYTHING. You can't believe it. You can't believe it".So my Mom replied;"Yes. I can believe it".-

[Guest guest]

, that is stunning, but a nice validation from your mom. We got a notice here in Las Vegas about a year ago that our insurance will not cover mold damage - not sure of the details on the policy, but I watch the walls, bathroom, roof now when it rains. Yes, folks, it does rain here and floods.

a

My Mom just called to tell me that a worried friend just excitedly told her about the mold epidemic and said "The insurance companies have stopped issuing homeowners insurance around here. It's the problems with mold. Nobody knows about it - This is brand new! It's unbelievable!".So my Mom said, "Yes, I know about it"."No, you can't know about it. This is brand new. It's happening right now. It's changing EVERYTHING. You can't believe it. You can't believe it".So my Mom replied;"Yes. I can believe it".-

[Guest guest]

> You ever get to the point in conversations about this where you get

the feeling people have stopped listening to the message,

> and have started looking for behavioral inconsistencies? There's

usually a slight cocking of the head....

>

>

And a rolling of the eyes! You bet!

People still take every opportunity to try and catch me in a glaring

inconsistency to " 's Mold Theory " (as they scoffingly call it).

I told my brother that the toxins could " adsorb " (Those darn Van Der

Waals forces again) onto plastic and metal surfaces and be impossible

to clean. He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

metal. "

That isn't quite what I said but as far as he is concerned, he thinks

I've made a claim that is so utterly insane as to call my entire

premise into question.

Oh well...

-

[Guest guest]

> You ever get to the point in conversations about this where you get

the feeling people have stopped listening to the message,

> and have started looking for behavioral inconsistencies? There's

usually a slight cocking of the head....

>

>

And a rolling of the eyes! You bet!

People still take every opportunity to try and catch me in a glaring

inconsistency to " 's Mold Theory " (as they scoffingly call it).

I told my brother that the toxins could " adsorb " (Those darn Van Der

Waals forces again) onto plastic and metal surfaces and be impossible

to clean. He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

metal. "

That isn't quite what I said but as far as he is concerned, he thinks

I've made a claim that is so utterly insane as to call my entire

premise into question.

Oh well...

-

[Guest guest]

Hi, and list.......if there is one thing that can defy Van Der Waal's

force better than toxic mold, it's mercury vapor. Perhaps the two offenders

of human health and well-being aren't too far apart in their ability to

wreak havoc on one's constitution. Mercury vapors are purported to go

through walls and we all know that toxic mold does! The entire arising

problem of mold contamination seems to stem from " modern " building materials

and was unheard of until the end of WWII when the chemists started playing

around with a host of synthetics in order to " improve " our living standards

leading to what is today's mutated supermolds. " Better life throught

chemistry " , they promised. (Oooops!) Troll around through this website

for an explanation of defective, inferior and health-compromising building

materials:

www.geoswan.com

Regards to all......Betsy

wrote:

> And a rolling of the eyes! You bet!

> People still take every opportunity to try and catch me in a glaring

> inconsistency to " 's Mold Theory " (as they scoffingly call it).

> I told my brother that the toxins could " adsorb " (Those darn Van Der

> Waals forces again) onto plastic and metal surfaces and be impossible

> to clean. He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

> the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

> metal. "

>

> That isn't quite what I said but as far as he is concerned, he thinks

> I've made a claim that is so utterly insane as to call my entire

> premise into question.

> Oh well...

> -

[Guest guest]

Hi, and list.......if there is one thing that can defy Van Der Waal's

force better than toxic mold, it's mercury vapor. Perhaps the two offenders

of human health and well-being aren't too far apart in their ability to

wreak havoc on one's constitution. Mercury vapors are purported to go

through walls and we all know that toxic mold does! The entire arising

problem of mold contamination seems to stem from " modern " building materials

and was unheard of until the end of WWII when the chemists started playing

around with a host of synthetics in order to " improve " our living standards

leading to what is today's mutated supermolds. " Better life throught

chemistry " , they promised. (Oooops!) Troll around through this website

for an explanation of defective, inferior and health-compromising building

materials:

www.geoswan.com

Regards to all......Betsy

wrote:

> And a rolling of the eyes! You bet!

> People still take every opportunity to try and catch me in a glaring

> inconsistency to " 's Mold Theory " (as they scoffingly call it).

> I told my brother that the toxins could " adsorb " (Those darn Van Der

> Waals forces again) onto plastic and metal surfaces and be impossible

> to clean. He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

> the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

> metal. "

>

> That isn't quite what I said but as far as he is concerned, he thinks

> I've made a claim that is so utterly insane as to call my entire

> premise into question.

> Oh well...

> -

[Guest guest]

He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

> the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

> metal. "

Dang, I was just looking at metal houses this week.

http://www.allsteelhomes.com

To make a truly inert structure, it would probably take figuring out how to hang

the thing on caissons and pour a suspended concrete floor a la high-

rises, but hey...

Buddy, my girlfriend showed me something almost as insane this winter! Cleaning

out her basement workbench, she was throwing out old cans of

paint, opening and checking them as she went. She found an old, half-used pint

of wall spackle that used Xylene as the evaporative agent -- when she

opened it up, there was a golf ball sized colony of fuzzy greenish white mold

(specie?) growing in the middle of it. WTH? Isn't Xylene one of the

most toxic reagents? Man!

" Hmmm, why does that mildew keep coming back on the bathroom tile? It would

just be insane to think it's in the material -- it's basically rock!

I better go get some stronger scouring powder -- maybe one with some chemicals

in it! "

[Guest guest]

He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

> the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

> metal. "

Dang, I was just looking at metal houses this week.

http://www.allsteelhomes.com

To make a truly inert structure, it would probably take figuring out how to hang

the thing on caissons and pour a suspended concrete floor a la high-

rises, but hey...

Buddy, my girlfriend showed me something almost as insane this winter! Cleaning

out her basement workbench, she was throwing out old cans of

paint, opening and checking them as she went. She found an old, half-used pint

of wall spackle that used Xylene as the evaporative agent -- when she

opened it up, there was a golf ball sized colony of fuzzy greenish white mold

(specie?) growing in the middle of it. WTH? Isn't Xylene one of the

most toxic reagents? Man!

" Hmmm, why does that mildew keep coming back on the bathroom tile? It would

just be insane to think it's in the material -- it's basically rock!

I better go get some stronger scouring powder -- maybe one with some chemicals

in it! "

[Guest guest]

> I told my brother that the toxins could " adsorb " (Those darn Van Der

> Waals forces again) onto plastic and metal surfaces and be impossible

> to clean. He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

> the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

> metal. "

--

Not to miss your point entirely either -- do you think that " adsorbed " toxins

(I'm assuming the crystalline chemical structures here,

not something like hyphae, right?) could be unbonded via some mechanism and then

be accessable to respiration? Direct transfer via

physical contact and skin absorption? Or perhaps via ingestion, after being mad

enough to spit nails after talking to your doctor?

[Guest guest]

> I told my brother that the toxins could " adsorb " (Those darn Van Der

> Waals forces again) onto plastic and metal surfaces and be impossible

> to clean. He didn't quite understand what I meant as evidenced by

> the constant way he says " You told me that mold can even grow in

> metal. "

--

Not to miss your point entirely either -- do you think that " adsorbed " toxins

(I'm assuming the crystalline chemical structures here,

not something like hyphae, right?) could be unbonded via some mechanism and then

be accessable to respiration? Direct transfer via

physical contact and skin absorption? Or perhaps via ingestion, after being mad

enough to spit nails after talking to your doctor?

[Guest guest]

do you think that " adsorbed " toxins (I'm assuming the crystalline

chemical structures here,

> not something like hyphae, right?) could be unbonded via some

mechanism and then be accessable to respiration? Direct transfer via

> physical contact and skin absorption? Or perhaps via ingestion,

after being mad enough to spit nails after talking to your doctor?

>

Yes I do - Respiration.

Very easy to demonstrate.

I'm writing from a metal building right now, but conventional

materials that have been properly assembled with no leaks or extreme

humidity seem to be just fine.

The key is to control the conditions for mold growth no matter what

the materials.

-

[Guest guest]

do you think that " adsorbed " toxins (I'm assuming the crystalline

chemical structures here,

> not something like hyphae, right?) could be unbonded via some

mechanism and then be accessable to respiration? Direct transfer via

> physical contact and skin absorption? Or perhaps via ingestion,

after being mad enough to spit nails after talking to your doctor?

>

Yes I do - Respiration.

Very easy to demonstrate.

I'm writing from a metal building right now, but conventional

materials that have been properly assembled with no leaks or extreme

humidity seem to be just fine.

The key is to control the conditions for mold growth no matter what

the materials.

-

[Guest guest]

> I'm writing from a metal building right now, but conventional

> materials that have been properly assembled with no leaks or extreme

> humidity seem to be just fine.

> The key is to control the conditions for mold growth no matter what

> the materials.

--

Understood, and I mostly agree. However, my concern is as to residual " ambient "

levels of spores in standardized building materials -- I'm not

talking about only drywall and acoustic tile here, but even properly stored, dry

lumber. Can organic, porous materials be cleaned to acceptable levels

for the sensitized? I have no problems accepting that highly finished furniture

can be remediated, but most dimensional materials, especially

composite particulates, seem unacceptable.

I appear to be reactive in almost everything with a roof on it anymore,

including brand new construction that has had mold/radon remediation

protocols applied -- vent fans and isolating sheetings, etc.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

> I'm writing from a metal building right now, but conventional

> materials that have been properly assembled with no leaks or extreme

> humidity seem to be just fine.

> The key is to control the conditions for mold growth no matter what

> the materials.

--

Understood, and I mostly agree. However, my concern is as to residual " ambient "

levels of spores in standardized building materials -- I'm not

talking about only drywall and acoustic tile here, but even properly stored, dry

lumber. Can organic, porous materials be cleaned to acceptable levels

for the sensitized? I have no problems accepting that highly finished furniture

can be remediated, but most dimensional materials, especially

composite particulates, seem unacceptable.

I appear to be reactive in almost everything with a roof on it anymore,

including brand new construction that has had mold/radon remediation

protocols applied -- vent fans and isolating sheetings, etc.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I haven't had much luck with cleaning anything.

I don't think that cleaning porous materials which give you a " hit "

is even possible.

Yet even though I wasn't able to get anything tolerable by washing, I

found that five years in dry storage allowed my stuff to die down.

Sometimes I would open a box and get a bit of an allergic response

but frankly I don't give a rodents rectum for the allergic component

of the illness - it's the toxic shock that's the slammer.

And that's what died down so I was happy and I got my stuff back.

-

[Guest guest]

I haven't had much luck with cleaning anything.

I don't think that cleaning porous materials which give you a " hit "

is even possible.

Yet even though I wasn't able to get anything tolerable by washing, I

found that five years in dry storage allowed my stuff to die down.

Sometimes I would open a box and get a bit of an allergic response

but frankly I don't give a rodents rectum for the allergic component

of the illness - it's the toxic shock that's the slammer.

And that's what died down so I was happy and I got my stuff back.

-

[Guest guest]

> I haven't had much luck with cleaning anything.

> I don't think that cleaning porous materials which give you a " hit "

> is even possible.

> Yet even though I wasn't able to get anything tolerable by washing, I

> found that five years in dry storage allowed my stuff to die down.

> Sometimes I would open a box and get a bit of an allergic response

> but frankly I don't give a rodents rectum for the allergic component

> of the illness - it's the toxic shock that's the slammer.

> And that's what died down so I was happy and I got my stuff back.

> -

--

Interersting, I have much the same situation and opinions -- stuff in dry

storage (as opposed to wet?), and a suspicion that the most porous items

were culpable in my last major episode.

I have now pared down everything to the hard stuff -- almost everything that had

a primary exposure to the active growth environment has now been

gotten rid of. I've disposed of two beds, a futon, a designer couch,

upholstered office furniture, rugs, shoes, etc. I've sold two automobiles as

well --

these were used for moving and would have cross-contaminated upholstery issues.

What's left are probable cross-contaminated hardwood family

antiques, a large collection of photographic transparencies, computer equipment,

framed artwork, outdoor gear and kitchen stuff. When I find the

next suitable living arrangement (I have been camping or couchboy with friends

and family for over six months now), I am considering loading the

stuff into a Ryder truck, and sticking the biggest Ozone generator I can find in

with it for a couple days, and taping the door shut. I have also been

advised that putting an open pan of Chlorine in the storage unit to evaporate

will provide the same effect over time, however, the current storage is

not particularly airtight.

What do you think changed in five years with your stuff? Pretty hot in there,

and oxidation? Or perhaps your reactivity? Do you know what's been

happening with your IgG levels?

Yes, the allergic aspect is nothing more than an annoyance compared to the

Deathblow of fullblown toxicity, though I'll have to say, after I intially

detoxed last December and got through the Herxheimer, my general allergies are

through the roof. I experienced allergy symptoms camping in Baja

this winter that were as bad as I've ever had. No toxicity, however.

My challenge is to determine when I'm getting exposed -- other than getting

immediate cognitive effects (Spacey..) in some buildings, and sometimes

GI tract noise within a couple hours -- I really don't know what hit me until

about 36 hours after exposure, when major symptoms will manifest.

BTW, I have determined that it takes about the same amount of time to clear my

system, if I can get to clean space.

[Guest guest]

> I haven't had much luck with cleaning anything.

> I don't think that cleaning porous materials which give you a " hit "

> is even possible.

> Yet even though I wasn't able to get anything tolerable by washing, I

> found that five years in dry storage allowed my stuff to die down.

> Sometimes I would open a box and get a bit of an allergic response

> but frankly I don't give a rodents rectum for the allergic component

> of the illness - it's the toxic shock that's the slammer.

> And that's what died down so I was happy and I got my stuff back.

> -

--

Interersting, I have much the same situation and opinions -- stuff in dry

storage (as opposed to wet?), and a suspicion that the most porous items

were culpable in my last major episode.

I have now pared down everything to the hard stuff -- almost everything that had

a primary exposure to the active growth environment has now been

gotten rid of. I've disposed of two beds, a futon, a designer couch,

upholstered office furniture, rugs, shoes, etc. I've sold two automobiles as

well --

these were used for moving and would have cross-contaminated upholstery issues.

What's left are probable cross-contaminated hardwood family

antiques, a large collection of photographic transparencies, computer equipment,

framed artwork, outdoor gear and kitchen stuff. When I find the

next suitable living arrangement (I have been camping or couchboy with friends

and family for over six months now), I am considering loading the

stuff into a Ryder truck, and sticking the biggest Ozone generator I can find in

with it for a couple days, and taping the door shut. I have also been

advised that putting an open pan of Chlorine in the storage unit to evaporate

will provide the same effect over time, however, the current storage is

not particularly airtight.

What do you think changed in five years with your stuff? Pretty hot in there,

and oxidation? Or perhaps your reactivity? Do you know what's been

happening with your IgG levels?

Yes, the allergic aspect is nothing more than an annoyance compared to the

Deathblow of fullblown toxicity, though I'll have to say, after I intially

detoxed last December and got through the Herxheimer, my general allergies are

through the roof. I experienced allergy symptoms camping in Baja

this winter that were as bad as I've ever had. No toxicity, however.

My challenge is to determine when I'm getting exposed -- other than getting

immediate cognitive effects (Spacey..) in some buildings, and sometimes

GI tract noise within a couple hours -- I really don't know what hit me until

about 36 hours after exposure, when major symptoms will manifest.

BTW, I have determined that it takes about the same amount of time to clear my

system, if I can get to clean space.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jules,

As far as my knowledge goes, even if mold spores die, they can still release toxins. So, in this case, time will not solve the problem. Although it is difficult to do - the only sure way is to get rid of everything that is contaminated. It is a very painful experience, but I am glad I did it now that I look back. I know that I am not being re-contaminated. In my case, however, it was not my home, but my workplace. So ten years of teaching supplies/books/research/learning centers/etc...had to be thrown out. I cried and cried. But I'm glad I did it. Perhaps I was being extreme, but at least I know that the spores and toxins that were in my stuff are not with me anymore.

Best of luck to you with everything you are going through.

God Bless,

[Guest guest]

Hi Jules,

As far as my knowledge goes, even if mold spores die, they can still release toxins. So, in this case, time will not solve the problem. Although it is difficult to do - the only sure way is to get rid of everything that is contaminated. It is a very painful experience, but I am glad I did it now that I look back. I know that I am not being re-contaminated. In my case, however, it was not my home, but my workplace. So ten years of teaching supplies/books/research/learning centers/etc...had to be thrown out. I cried and cried. But I'm glad I did it. Perhaps I was being extreme, but at least I know that the spores and toxins that were in my stuff are not with me anymore.

Best of luck to you with everything you are going through.

God Bless,

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody,

I'm glad to read the last couple posts as this is very similar to my

experience. Thought that it MUST be something other than

mold...chemical maybe...by the way it acted, and I responded, but now

I know it must be the mycotoxins (stachy, asper, ...) that I'm

reacting to. The real estate industry doesn't take any of this

seriously nor do most of my friends and family! I believe they think

I'm being emotionally hypersensitive, and haven't really even offered

to help me. (

House, my belongings, dog are all contaminated, and my car, and

mother's house are all cross-contaminated. Unfortunately, she's

immunosuppressed from a heart transplant so I will have to have her

house remediated. I've tried to clean many times but it doesn't seem

to be working and now the stuff seems to be airborne. She says she

doesn't feel it but I can hear her sniffling and coughing and I think

she's reacting but isn't yet as sensitive as I am.

Seems that I brought a few toxic spores to my mother's house

initially which were very obviously isolated at first (futon

mattress, couch, wooden desk/computer, bathroom) but eventually they

seemed to release their toxins and began filling the air. Feels like

breathing dust or pepper and I have the burning feeling in my mouth.

I moved the upholstered furniture out of the house once I realized it

was contaminated but think it was too late. Does this sound correct

or similar to what you all have experienced? Does it have something

to do with Stachy multiplying quicker than other mold spores?

I'm sad that I'm having to face this situation, and sad that I don't

have much support financial or otherwise. I have filed for

mediation/arbitration with the seller of the property and her agent

as they covered up the water damage/mold problem, but it will take

months and I need to try to get my life back to " normal " asap. Not

currently working (which is probably a good thing) and my

unemployment runs out in a couple weeks...ought to be interesting.

I've decided it's probably not a good idea for me to hire someone to

remediate my house as I will never be able to live there and I doubt

they can remediate the house or my belongings anyway, and I don't

like the idea of future liability if I sell the house " remediated " ,

even with full disclosure. I will probably sell the house to a

contractor for a large financial loss.

I've also decided to move all of my stuff into storage and am not

going to bother trying to clean it first since I can't clean

everything (non-porous perhaps, but porous not and it will share the

same space). Do the toxins eventually die down in everything?

Books, clothing, linens, wood?

A friend has offered to let me stay at their house but I'm afraid of

cross-contamination after what I've done to my mother's home.

Thinking once I move everything into storage and am done dealing with

my stuff, I'll stay at a series of motels without bringing anything

with me, as I've read to do on this board. But that doesn't address

the contaminated car issue. How do you know when you're clean, or

safe to stay with friends and family? Can I potentially contaminate

friends houses and cars before I have gotten clean?

Isn't there any agency that offers support out there? What a mess!

This experience is very similar to what I went through when my mother

had her heart failure/transplant as there wasn't much info available,

it happened very fast and sudden, it was emotionally draining,

everyone thought I was being emotionally hypersensitive, and I ended

up connecting with others in the same situation through a message

board, which saved both of our lives! Hooray for community!!!

Jules

> > I haven't had much luck with cleaning anything.

> > I don't think that cleaning porous materials which give you

a " hit "

> > is even possible.

> > Yet even though I wasn't able to get anything tolerable by

washing, I

> > found that five years in dry storage allowed my stuff to die down.

> > Sometimes I would open a box and get a bit of an allergic

response

> > but frankly I don't give a rodents rectum for the allergic

component

> > of the illness - it's the toxic shock that's the slammer.

> > And that's what died down so I was happy and I got my stuff back.

> > -

>

> --

>

> Interersting, I have much the same situation and opinions -- stuff

in dry storage (as opposed to wet?), and a suspicion that the most

porous items

> were culpable in my last major episode.

>

> I have now pared down everything to the hard stuff -- almost

everything that had a primary exposure to the active growth

environment has now been

> gotten rid of. I've disposed of two beds, a futon, a designer

couch, upholstered office furniture, rugs, shoes, etc. I've sold two

automobiles as well --

> these were used for moving and would have cross-contaminated

upholstery issues. What's left are probable cross-contaminated

hardwood family

> antiques, a large collection of photographic transparencies,

computer equipment, framed artwork, outdoor gear and kitchen stuff.

When I find the

> next suitable living arrangement (I have been camping or couchboy

with friends and family for over six months now), I am considering

loading the

> stuff into a Ryder truck, and sticking the biggest Ozone generator

I can find in with it for a couple days, and taping the door shut. I

have also been

> advised that putting an open pan of Chlorine in the storage unit to

evaporate will provide the same effect over time, however, the

current storage is

> not particularly airtight.

>

> What do you think changed in five years with your stuff? Pretty

hot in there, and oxidation? Or perhaps your reactivity? Do you

know what's been

> happening with your IgG levels?

>

> Yes, the allergic aspect is nothing more than an annoyance

compared to the Deathblow of fullblown toxicity, though I'll have to

say, after I intially

> detoxed last December and got through the Herxheimer, my general

allergies are through the roof. I experienced allergy symptoms

camping in Baja

> this winter that were as bad as I've ever had. No toxicity,

however.

>

> My challenge is to determine when I'm getting exposed -- other than

getting immediate cognitive effects (Spacey..) in some buildings, and

sometimes

> GI tract noise within a couple hours -- I really don't know what

hit me until about 36 hours after exposure, when major symptoms will

manifest.

> BTW, I have determined that it takes about the same amount of time

to clear my system, if I can get to clean space.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody,

I'm glad to read the last couple posts as this is very similar to my

experience. Thought that it MUST be something other than

mold...chemical maybe...by the way it acted, and I responded, but now

I know it must be the mycotoxins (stachy, asper, ...) that I'm

reacting to. The real estate industry doesn't take any of this

seriously nor do most of my friends and family! I believe they think

I'm being emotionally hypersensitive, and haven't really even offered

to help me. (

House, my belongings, dog are all contaminated, and my car, and

mother's house are all cross-contaminated. Unfortunately, she's

immunosuppressed from a heart transplant so I will have to have her

house remediated. I've tried to clean many times but it doesn't seem

to be working and now the stuff seems to be airborne. She says she

doesn't feel it but I can hear her sniffling and coughing and I think

she's reacting but isn't yet as sensitive as I am.

Seems that I brought a few toxic spores to my mother's house

initially which were very obviously isolated at first (futon

mattress, couch, wooden desk/computer, bathroom) but eventually they

seemed to release their toxins and began filling the air. Feels like

breathing dust or pepper and I have the burning feeling in my mouth.

I moved the upholstered furniture out of the house once I realized it

was contaminated but think it was too late. Does this sound correct

or similar to what you all have experienced? Does it have something

to do with Stachy multiplying quicker than other mold spores?

I'm sad that I'm having to face this situation, and sad that I don't

have much support financial or otherwise. I have filed for

mediation/arbitration with the seller of the property and her agent

as they covered up the water damage/mold problem, but it will take

months and I need to try to get my life back to " normal " asap. Not

currently working (which is probably a good thing) and my

unemployment runs out in a couple weeks...ought to be interesting.

I've decided it's probably not a good idea for me to hire someone to

remediate my house as I will never be able to live there and I doubt

they can remediate the house or my belongings anyway, and I don't

like the idea of future liability if I sell the house " remediated " ,

even with full disclosure. I will probably sell the house to a

contractor for a large financial loss.

I've also decided to move all of my stuff into storage and am not

going to bother trying to clean it first since I can't clean

everything (non-porous perhaps, but porous not and it will share the

same space). Do the toxins eventually die down in everything?

Books, clothing, linens, wood?

A friend has offered to let me stay at their house but I'm afraid of

cross-contamination after what I've done to my mother's home.

Thinking once I move everything into storage and am done dealing with

my stuff, I'll stay at a series of motels without bringing anything

with me, as I've read to do on this board. But that doesn't address

the contaminated car issue. How do you know when you're clean, or

safe to stay with friends and family? Can I potentially contaminate

friends houses and cars before I have gotten clean?

Isn't there any agency that offers support out there? What a mess!

This experience is very similar to what I went through when my mother

had her heart failure/transplant as there wasn't much info available,

it happened very fast and sudden, it was emotionally draining,

everyone thought I was being emotionally hypersensitive, and I ended

up connecting with others in the same situation through a message

board, which saved both of our lives! Hooray for community!!!

Jules

> > I haven't had much luck with cleaning anything.

> > I don't think that cleaning porous materials which give you

a " hit "

> > is even possible.

> > Yet even though I wasn't able to get anything tolerable by

washing, I

> > found that five years in dry storage allowed my stuff to die down.

> > Sometimes I would open a box and get a bit of an allergic

response

> > but frankly I don't give a rodents rectum for the allergic

component

> > of the illness - it's the toxic shock that's the slammer.

> > And that's what died down so I was happy and I got my stuff back.

> > -

>

> --

>

> Interersting, I have much the same situation and opinions -- stuff

in dry storage (as opposed to wet?), and a suspicion that the most

porous items

> were culpable in my last major episode.

>

> I have now pared down everything to the hard stuff -- almost

everything that had a primary exposure to the active growth

environment has now been

> gotten rid of. I've disposed of two beds, a futon, a designer

couch, upholstered office furniture, rugs, shoes, etc. I've sold two

automobiles as well --

> these were used for moving and would have cross-contaminated

upholstery issues. What's left are probable cross-contaminated

hardwood family

> antiques, a large collection of photographic transparencies,

computer equipment, framed artwork, outdoor gear and kitchen stuff.

When I find the

> next suitable living arrangement (I have been camping or couchboy

with friends and family for over six months now), I am considering

loading the

> stuff into a Ryder truck, and sticking the biggest Ozone generator

I can find in with it for a couple days, and taping the door shut. I

have also been

> advised that putting an open pan of Chlorine in the storage unit to

evaporate will provide the same effect over time, however, the

current storage is

> not particularly airtight.

>

> What do you think changed in five years with your stuff? Pretty

hot in there, and oxidation? Or perhaps your reactivity? Do you

know what's been

> happening with your IgG levels?

>

> Yes, the allergic aspect is nothing more than an annoyance

compared to the Deathblow of fullblown toxicity, though I'll have to

say, after I intially

> detoxed last December and got through the Herxheimer, my general

allergies are through the roof. I experienced allergy symptoms

camping in Baja

> this winter that were as bad as I've ever had. No toxicity,

however.

>

> My challenge is to determine when I'm getting exposed -- other than

getting immediate cognitive effects (Spacey..) in some buildings, and

sometimes

> GI tract noise within a couple hours -- I really don't know what

hit me until about 36 hours after exposure, when major symptoms will

manifest.

> BTW, I have determined that it takes about the same amount of time

to clear my system, if I can get to clean space.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jules --

-- In , " julesblucky " <julesblucky@y...> wrote:

> I'm glad to read the last couple posts as this is very similar to my

> experience. Thought that it MUST be something other than

> mold...chemical maybe...by the way it acted, and I responded, but now

> I know it must be the mycotoxins (stachy, asper, ...) that I'm

> reacting to. The real estate industry doesn't take any of this

> seriously nor do most of my friends and family! I believe they think

> I'm being emotionally hypersensitive, and haven't really even offered

> to help me. (

Man, does this sound familiar -- sorry!

>

> House, my belongings, dog are all contaminated, and my car, and

> mother's house are all cross-contaminated. Unfortunately, she's

> immunosuppressed from a heart transplant so I will have to have her

> house remediated. I've tried to clean many times but it doesn't seem

> to be working and now the stuff seems to be airborne. She says she

> doesn't feel it but I can hear her sniffling and coughing and I think

> she's reacting but isn't yet as sensitive as I am.

Hmmm ... I've had good luck being able to wash clothing, and myself. I would

think your dog would be cleanable too!

Sometimes I wonder if being immunosuppressed is not a positive condition as

relates to this, as there seems to be conncensus that basic allergic

reaction is the foundation for the release of toxins from spores.

>

> Seems that I brought a few toxic spores to my mother's house

> initially which were very obviously isolated at first (futon

> mattress, couch, wooden desk/computer, bathroom) but eventually they

> seemed to release their toxins and began filling the air. Feels like

> breathing dust or pepper and I have the burning feeling in my mouth.

> I moved the upholstered furniture out of the house once I realized it

> was contaminated but think it was too late. Does this sound correct

> or similar to what you all have experienced? Does it have something

> to do with Stachy multiplying quicker than other mold spores?

I feel that I made a major cross-contamination mistake by allowing my girlfriend

to borrow my vacuum -- think of the concentrating and dispersion

potential here without HEPA rated filtration!

Unless you have a humid or otherwise conducive environment for mold growth, I

wouldn't assume that you have reproduction happening. I feel that

what I experienced was gradually building reactivity to the residually

contaminated and cross-contaminated items in my home. I moved four times

before I figured it out -- each of the following houses I was in were almost

certainly not subject to active growth.

My overall reactivity seems to have advanced strongly after I finally was able

to detox following 10 days out of contaminated environments. Have

you detoxed yet?

>

> I'm sad that I'm having to face this situation, and sad that I don't

> have much support financial or otherwise. I have filed for

> mediation/arbitration with the seller of the property and her agent

> as they covered up the water damage/mold problem, but it will take

> months and I need to try to get my life back to " normal " asap. Not

> currently working (which is probably a good thing) and my

> unemployment runs out in a couple weeks...ought to be interesting.

Again, sounds familiar.....

>

> I've decided it's probably not a good idea for me to hire someone to

> remediate my house as I will never be able to live there and I doubt

> they can remediate the house or my belongings anyway, and I don't

> like the idea of future liability if I sell the house " remediated " ,

> even with full disclosure. I will probably sell the house to a

> contractor for a large financial loss.

Your homeowners insurance " should " cover this -- but the trick is to have them

admit there's a problem.

>

> I've also decided to move all of my stuff into storage and am not

> going to bother trying to clean it first since I can't clean

> everything (non-porous perhaps, but porous not and it will share the

> same space). Do the toxins eventually die down in everything?

> Books, clothing, linens, wood?

If in doubt, toss it -- finished wood might be remediable, but everything else

is not worth the hassle, probably. Clothing seems to be washable.

When I had my last episode after moving things into storage, I swore I would be

willing to lose it all.

>

> A friend has offered to let me stay at their house but I'm afraid of

> cross-contamination after what I've done to my mother's home.

> Thinking once I move everything into storage and am done dealing with

> my stuff, I'll stay at a series of motels without bringing anything

> with me, as I've read to do on this board. But that doesn't address

> the contaminated car issue.

Depends on level of contamination?-- but I think that wiping down al plastic

surfaces is probably effective. Then a high-powered vaccum in the

upholstery, but THIS HAS TO BE HEPA RATED -- otherwise, the exhaust will just

recontaminate everything, right?. Then shampoo?

COMMERCIAL VACUUMS AT THE CAR WASH have given me huge exposures -- blinding

headaches the next day. Think of how many crossed

environments a commercial unit gets exposed to!

How do you know when you're clean, or

> safe to stay with friends and family? Can I potentially contaminate

> friends houses and cars before I have gotten clean?

In my experience, if I have fresly laundered clothes, I don't seem to be

recontaminating my new car, despite being in environments that I am

moderately reactive to. However, I am going to institute policy of cleaning it

more often.

>

> Isn't there any agency that offers support out there? What a mess!

> This experience is very similar to what I went through when my mother

> had her heart failure/transplant as there wasn't much info available,

> it happened very fast and sudden, it was emotionally draining,

> everyone thought I was being emotionally hypersensitive, and I ended

> up connecting with others in the same situation through a message

> board, which saved both of our lives! Hooray for community!!!

I feel the same -- I would be out of my mind without knowing the experiences of

others. Thanks.

The community at Mold-Help.org has also been very helpful -- the moderators

there have deep personal and technical experience, in addition to

being committed activists.