Re: Trying to see which way to go

December 5, 2008

I've been banded and I'm currently sleeved. I do like my sleeve a great deal. WLS gives you your life back. Your student was quite sincere, I am sure. But most people simply don't understand obesity issues.

Find the procedure that is right for you and go for it, get your life back!On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 2:50 PM, kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@...> wrote:

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have

bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am

a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you have to do

is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a

baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 5, 2008

I I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3" and weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy.

Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I no longer want that anymore.....I thought it would be good, but it wasn't and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and

can only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food tastes much better!

I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we will be happy to help you!

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@...>Subject: Trying to see which way to go Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 5, 2008

I must also say that I have Kaiser and since I am a teacher too, mine is covering some bariatric surgery, but not the sleeve, or at least in San Diego they weren't. Now, I do hear on Obesityhelp.com that Kaiser is doing the sleeve in Fremont and other parts of California. However, I didn't want to jump through a bunch of hoops to get on their possible weight loss list and be turned down because I could lose weight through the other programs. I took matters into my own hands and self paid (worth every penny) to stop the cycle of weight gain and loss once and for all.

You will feel so much better doing this and people really don't understand the dynamics of weight loss and obesity. Those who don't have the weight issues can't understand why it is hard to lose weight. Once your body gets to a certain level with all of the unhealthy hormones running rampant through your body, your metabolism is off kilter and it is almost impossible to lose weight. I know others have done it....but age and other factors make it very hard to make progress. So, this was a wonderful decision for me and I am thrilled with my progress.

Again, email us if you have any other questions!

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@...>Subject: Trying to see which way to go Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 6, 2008

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@...>Subject: Trying to see which way to go Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 6, 2008

Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat "normally", like normal people normal, not the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with, what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly think that makes for a sound

nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that you personally never experienced. You have mysterious "friends" every one of whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know, which is the sleeve. Thank you!From: Gail <sweetsmile1955@...> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

I I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3" and weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy.

Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and

can only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food tastes much better!

I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we will be happy to help you!

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go @groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 6, 2008

Hi Gail,

I think you and Bipley said it well! I always appreciate all the opinions. But, well said ladies. This is a place of information to personal attack!

Suzanne

In a message dated 12/6/2008 8:43:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, sweetsmile1955@... writes:

Hope?

I am glad you are posting for the benefit of the band! There needs to be more! I do appologize if I offended anyone with my zealousness with respect to the sleeve. But I am so excited that I have lost weight and am feeling so much better! I certainly do not begrudge you your happiness with the band....I am thrilled that it has worked so well for you!

Just stating you don't agree and give your perspective is going to get your point across...it is really unnecessary to personalize or attack anyone for their happiness!

I can only give my personal perspective on weight loss. I voiced my opinion based not on science, but personal friends who have had the band (including Bipley and Carla Shriver and people that you are not aware of because they did not have their surgery by Dr. Aceves.) My one friend, she did get her band unfilled because of the pressure in her stomach and the restrictive stress during pregnancy, ergo my comment. Additionally, she got an infection from her port and had to have that removed and eventually her entire band.

Bipley will even confer that the more stress you are under, the more band restriction you have. Additionally, four of my friends who have had the band for several years, no longer have fills, they have had them all unfilled. One will be going in for the sleeve. Another one who is a psychiatrist and his wife is a physician had his band removed because it ruptured. I can go on and on. This is first-hand experience and not from an unsubstantiated agenda.

Neither surgery is perfect, however, if your band works for you then great! Post how it works on your behalf and what good results you are getting with it! That way, there is a healthy balance of information for all of the new people coming in!

I base all of my information on fact and personal friends - including those who are more qualified than you or I in the scientific realm. You can also look this up or ask Dr. Aceves or Bipley or any number of people that you feel have current knowledge and/or credentials. I also have no problem being wrong! I am happy to concede to someone else's higher knowledge.

As far as nutrition, there are many women who are sick as dogs and they don't get much in the way of nutrition....(myself included) I could only eat popscicles for many months prior to being sleeved, while I was pregnant. My OBGyn told me that the baby will still thrive......thus my son is doing great. Not that that is a good ideal for pregnancy......one should have great nutrition.

As for limitations on the sleeve.....I honestly can't think of any limitations with the sleeve. I am sure there are....but I really can't think of any right now! I certainly can't eat as much as I used to..... and the 3/4 of the HALF of the bean patty is what I did have....not 3/4 of the whole patty. Thus that is obviously due to the density of the food....not the bean patty that is also very healthy.

My goal is to keep the tone of the board informational and positive. I can only talk for myself and those who I know personally who have had the surgery. Again, I hope to keep all of the conversations going, but in a positive, informative manner.

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go @groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do? Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

December 6, 2008

Hi there, I just wanted to clarify on lap band and pregnancy. While I have not "been there" YET. Dr. Aceves' office actually recommended the band to me because I want to get pregnant in the future, at the time, I've had my band almost 2 yrs ago now. The thinking is that a woman can get an unfill during pregnancy and easily be able to take in more calories. I'm not sure how with a sleeve you get in more calories unless you do it with liquid calories. I've discussed this with many sleevester and they reassure me they can and have healthy babies too I know for me with another pregnancy not that far out on the horizon, a band was my choice. Good luck in your research, you won't be sorry you had WLS. CyrenaDOB:

1/19/07240/125/150start/now/goalFrom: Gail <sweetsmile1955@...> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

I >>>> With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy. >>>>>>

December 6, 2008

Hi Cyrena....That is old thinking. New studies have come to light and band or sleeve is fine for pregnancy. Sleeves provide a bit better weight loss so pregnancy is even more available.Either bands or sleeves are absolutely fine for pregnancy.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Cyrena Weeks <cyrenaweeks@...> wrote:

Hi there, I just wanted to clarify on lap band and pregnancy. While I have not " been there " YET. Dr. Aceves' office actually recommended the band to me because I want to get pregnant in the future, at the time, I've had my band almost 2 yrs ago now. The thinking is that a woman can get an unfill during pregnancy and easily be able to take in more calories. I'm not sure how with a sleeve you get in more calories unless you do it with liquid calories. I've discussed this with many sleevester and they reassure me they can and have healthy babies too I know for me with another pregnancy not that far out on the horizon, a band was my choice. Good luck in your research, you won't be sorry you had WLS.

CyrenaDOB:

1/19/07240/125/150start/now/goal

From: Gail <sweetsmile1955@...>

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

I >>>> With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy. >>>>>>

December 6, 2008

So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are "new studies" without providing references amounts to lazy writing. 2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there a study you would like to cite for that, too?3. I think you and I have very different definitions of "fine" when it comes to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not ideal.

Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in an unborn human being.4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without citing any studies, by the way) as "defensive", even though you failed to make the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should choose one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal activists of "sleeve, only sleeve!" on this board. I am suggesting that others do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with some solid "science" you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal, no? From: Bipley <Bipley@...> Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PMSubject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.

I have to disagree with you that "everyone can eat normally with an unfilled band." I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.

I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many new studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is absolutely fine for pregnancy.

My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same experience. Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat "normally", like normal people normal, not the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with, what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly think that makes for a sound

nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that you personally never experienced. You have mysterious "friends" every one of whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know, which is the sleeve. Thank you!

From: Gail <sweetsmile1955> @groups. com

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

I I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3" and weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy.

Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and

can only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food tastes much better!

I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we will be happy to help you!

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

@groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do

is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 6, 2008

Oh my, someone is upset.#1) I'd suggest talking to your surgeon. That is still in fashion, right? After *I* talked to him I did a simple Google search. It's easy, honest. I'd research cirangle but what do I know, right?

#2) Ohhhhh no you don't! You are the one that inferred the few negative band experiences. You prove your own damn case.#3) You are making the comparison that 3rd world countries produce the same children as sleeved women. You prove your own case, then I'll produce my own studies crushing the heck out of yours. Common sense seems to be up for debate here. You made the original claims that banding is superior for pregnant women than sleeves. Prove your case.

#4) You are claiming innocence that you do not deserve. You told her she was wrong, show her how. Cite your studies, prove your case. Stop stomping those feeties and prove your case once and for all. YOU are the one claiming banding is superior to sleeves for pregnancy, so prove your case. I'll wait. Gail was pretty darn clear that she was referring to personal experience. YOU are the one claiming fact across the board so do post your facts. Again, I'll wait.

*I* am the one saying bands and sleeves are fine for preggos. You have made it more than clear that you disagree. Prove your case. No, dear. We have no common goal. I am the one saying bands and sleeves can both enjoy pregger life. YOU are the one saying ONLY bands can safely have a baby. So go ahead, prove your case with the latest stats and info. We are all waiting.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <hopekay@...> wrote:

So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:

1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are " new studies " without providing references amounts to lazy writing.

2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there a study you would like to cite for that, too?3. I think you and I have very different definitions of " fine " when it comes to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not ideal.

Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in an unborn human being.4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without citing any studies, by the way) as " defensive " , even though you failed to make the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should choose one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal activists of " sleeve, only sleeve! " on this board. I am suggesting that others do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with some solid " science " you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal, no?

From: Bipley <Bipley@...>

Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM

Subject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.

I have to disagree with you that " everyone can eat normally with an unfilled band. " I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.

I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many new studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is absolutely fine for pregnancy.

My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same experience. Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat " normally " , like normal people normal, not the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with, what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly think that makes for a sound

nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that you personally never experienced. You have mysterious " friends " every one of whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know, which is the sleeve. Thank you!

From: Gail <sweetsmile1955>

@groups. com

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

I I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3 " and weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy.

Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and

can only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food tastes much better!

I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we will be happy to help you!

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

@groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you have to do

is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 7, 2008

Hope,

Just let it go.. If Gail or someone provided misleading info.. where is it your job to point it out? Where is it your job to be Miss Nasty pants about it all. I can't believe the attacks on her info I'm reading from you. I'm glad Bip n Suzanne, and Cyrena jumped in here. .. Gail keep up the posts hun... I find them all very educational! I thought this was a 'SUPPORT group' and to be positive for ANY weight loss surgery. Hope, your comments have been anything but that.

Thanks again ladies. I've said my two cents worth.

Robyn in CO

[Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

@groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 7, 2008

Hi Hope,

This isn't about who is right or wrong here. This is about support for new people and people who have been on this site there a long time. I can't tell you how much support I felt when I was trying to make a choice for myself--and in the end it was all about me and what was right for me!!! So this kind of on going LONG, LONG E-mail that you did seem to have time to do this time isn't what most of us are really looking for. I believe that 95% of us are all SMART enough to check with our doctors or Dr. Aceves if we had questions about being pregnant and what was best for us. Most of us do speak from experience because we aren't medical people. And if we make a mistake and say something incorrect that is OK too--we are human and not perfect. If I wanted to have the weight loss surgery, then I was SMART enough to ask all the questions that I felt I needed to know and what is going to be best for me now and in the future.

I am someone standing on the side lines and I see this as a personal attack--you are the one who opened this up claiming Gail didn't know what she was talking about. Anyone can always take the information and use it or not use it--that is up to the people who are reading this--give them some credit please for being here and reading this information.

We teach people how to treat us. Are you doing that? So it really is time to let this go, this isn't the place to do this. If feels like you are trying to be a "right fighter." It isn't so much about the content of what one says but more about always being right ALL the time. You have your passion and Bipley has her passion and for me I have my passion, and I never expect everyone to feel the same way I do. It isn't about who has the most current or best information all the time or who is right or wrong. As a community I think most of us are ready to move on to something else. I--(now remember this is my feeling and now one else) find your first sentence condescending to Bipley with this statement. "Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS."

Enough is enough

Suzanne

In a message dated 12/7/2008 1:39:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, hopekay@... writes:

Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS. I appealed to common sense, not cited studies. But YOU insisted I have old information. So, you have the new studies? Pony up. I again point out the hypocrisy of you and Gail spouting misinformation unchecked while insulting others. And I did Google for these new studies before ever sending the message, and found nothing. But what I did find is this note from Dr. Aceves here http://www.mexicalibariatriccenter.com/Lap-band_Advantages.asp: "[P]regnancy, . . . may require that your food intake be increased or decreased by modifying the capacity of the stomach." Pregnancy requires more food?! Who would've thought! What's next, "pregnancy requires not just food, but nutrition"? Revolutionary! So unless you found a way of adjusting the capacity of your sleeved stomach, per Dr. Aceves, the band is better. I am eagerly await those new studies you mentioned disproving Dr. Aceves' note. Why are you so shy about posting them here? If it is valuable new information, we all deserve the right to know, especially the new patients considering their options before surgery. This is your chance to educate this community, I would have thought you would be jumping at it. I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to learn something new.For Robyn, you respond to a request to stop posting misinformation and provide references to the new studies by calling me names? Do not lower yourself to this level. I have not made one thing personal, but others have, including you. Shame.For Gail, I love and admire your enthusiasm, and I sincerely hope you will keep posting about your experience with the sleeve. All I ask of you is to stop posting erroneus information that you will admit in the very next line you know nothing about, or speculate about experience with the band you didn't have. If I were to start posting about people I know whose sleeves leak, you and Bipley would be all over me like white on rice, saying the exact same thing - individual experiences are not indicative of the overall trend. I ask you, respectfully, to stop doing the same when it comes to the band. Notice I did not make it about my surgery, or my band, or my experience. And to your question as to why don't I post about my experience as a counter to yours, unlike you, I do not have the luxury of typing out a lengthy response to the question that repeats itself at least once a week. This board has a wealth of knowledge, for example, the discussion we had on how different "full" feels with the band and sleeve was very informational, in particular, Bipley's contribution to it because she had both. That kind of first hand experience is invaluable and should be preserved in some manner, like an FAQ, because I would imagine people start suffering from response fatigue answering the same questions over and over again. I post when something is blatantly wrong or out of the ordinary, like Ernesto being called a crazy driver, or sleeve suddenly becoming better than the band for pregnancy, or if someone needs enoucragement and my experience is somehow relevant. I am glad you find time to contribute here on a more regular basis, but it's a shame that when you share your positive experience with the sleeve you chose to disparage the band every time and we simply do not have enough vocal bandsters here to provide a counter view point. Perhaps that's because when someone does counter, Bipley seems to turn it into a personal attack?

From: Bipley <Bipleygmail> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:48:18 AMSubject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

Oh my, someone is upset.#1) I'd suggest talking to your surgeon. That is still in fashion, right? After *I* talked to him I did a simple Google search. It's easy, honest. I'd research cirangle but what do I know, right?#2) Ohhhhh no you don't! You are the one that inferred the few negative band experiences. You prove your own damn case.#3) You are making the comparison that 3rd world countries produce the same children as sleeved women. You prove your own case, then I'll produce my own studies crushing the heck out of yours. Common sense seems to be up for debate here. You made the original claims that banding is superior for pregnant women than sleeves. Prove your case.#4) You are claiming innocence that you do not deserve. You told her she was wrong, show her how. Cite your studies, prove your case. Stop stomping those feeties and prove your case once and for all. YOU are the one claiming banding is superior to sleeves for pregnancy, so prove your case. I'll wait. Gail was pretty darn clear that she was referring to personal experience. YOU are the one claiming fact across the board so do post your facts. Again, I'll wait.*I* am the one saying bands and sleeves are fine for preggos. You have made it more than clear that you disagree. Prove your case. No, dear. We have no common goal. I am the one saying bands and sleeves can both enjoy pregger life. YOU are the one saying ONLY bands can safely have a baby. So go ahead, prove your case with the latest stats and info. We are all waiting.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are "new studies" without providing references amounts to lazy writing. 2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there a study you would like to cite for that, too?3. I think you and I have very different definitions of "fine" when it comes to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not ideal. Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in an unborn human being.4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without citing any studies, by the way) as "defensive", even though you failed to make the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should choose one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal activists of "sleeve, only sleeve!" on this board. I am suggesting that others do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with some solid "science" you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal, no?

From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com> @groups. comSent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.I have to disagree with you that "everyone can eat normally with an unfilled band." I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many new studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is absolutely fine for pregnancy.My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same experience. Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat "normally", like normal people normal, not the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with, what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly think that makes for a sound nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that you personally never experienced. You have mysterious "friends" every one of whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know, which is the sleeve. Thank you!

From: Gail <sweetsmile1955> @groups. comSent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

I I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3" and weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy.

Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and can only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food tastes much better!

I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we will be happy to help you!

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go @groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

December 7, 2008

Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS. I appealed to common sense, not cited studies. But YOU insisted I have old information. So, you have the new studies? Pony up. I again point out the hypocrisy of you and Gail spouting misinformation unchecked while insulting others. And I did Google for these new studies before ever sending the message, and found nothing. But what I did find is this note from Dr. Aceves here http://www.mexicalibariatriccenter.com/Lap-band_Advantages.asp: "[P]regnancy, . . . may require that your food intake be increased or decreased by modifying the capacity of the stomach." Pregnancy requires more food?! Who would've thought! What's next, "pregnancy requires not just food, but nutrition"? Revolutionary! So unless you found a way of

adjusting the capacity of your sleeved stomach, per Dr. Aceves, the band is better. I am eagerly await those new studies you mentioned disproving Dr. Aceves' note. Why are you so shy about posting them here? If it is valuable new information, we all deserve the right to know, especially the new patients considering their options before surgery. This is your chance to educate this community, I would have thought you would be jumping at it. I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to learn something new.For Robyn, you respond to a request to stop posting misinformation and provide references to the new studies by calling me names? Do not lower yourself to this level. I have not made one thing personal, but others have, including you. Shame.For Gail, I love and admire your enthusiasm, and I sincerely hope you will keep posting about your experience with the sleeve. All I ask of you is to stop posting erroneus information that you will

admit in the very next line you know nothing about, or speculate about experience with the band you didn't have. If I were to start posting about people I know whose sleeves leak, you and Bipley would be all over me like white on rice, saying the exact same thing - individual experiences are not indicative of the overall trend. I ask you, respectfully, to stop doing the same when it comes to the band. Notice I did not make it about my surgery, or my band, or my experience. And to your question as to why don't I post about my experience as a counter to yours, unlike you, I do not have the luxury of typing out a lengthy response to the question that repeats itself at least once a week. This board has a wealth of knowledge, for example, the discussion we had on how different "full" feels with the band and sleeve was very informational, in particular, Bipley's contribution to it because she had both. That kind of first hand experience is invaluable

and should be preserved in some manner, like an FAQ, because I would imagine people start suffering from response fatigue answering the same questions over and over again. I post when something is blatantly wrong or out of the ordinary, like Ernesto being called a crazy driver, or sleeve suddenly becoming better than the band for pregnancy, or if someone needs enoucragement and my experience is somehow relevant. I am glad you find time to contribute here on a more regular basis, but it's a shame that when you share your positive experience with the sleeve you chose to disparage the band every time and we simply do not have enough vocal bandsters here to provide a counter view point. Perhaps that's because when someone does counter, Bipley seems to turn it into a personal attack?From: Bipley <Bipley@...> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:48:18 AMSubject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

Oh my, someone is upset.#1) I'd suggest talking to your surgeon. That is still in fashion, right? After *I* talked to him I did a simple Google search. It's easy, honest. I'd research cirangle but what do I know, right?

#2) Ohhhhh no you don't! You are the one that inferred the few negative band experiences. You prove your own damn case.#3) You are making the comparison that 3rd world countries produce the same children as sleeved women. You prove your own case, then I'll produce my own studies crushing the heck out of yours. Common sense seems to be up for debate here. You made the original claims that banding is superior for pregnant women than sleeves. Prove your case.

#4) You are claiming innocence that you do not deserve. You told her she was wrong, show her how. Cite your studies, prove your case. Stop stomping those feeties and prove your case once and for all. YOU are the one claiming banding is superior to sleeves for pregnancy, so prove your case. I'll wait. Gail was pretty darn clear that she was referring to personal experience. YOU are the one claiming fact across the board so do post your facts. Again, I'll wait.

*I* am the one saying bands and sleeves are fine for preggos. You have made it more than clear that you disagree. Prove your case. No, dear. We have no common goal. I am the one saying bands and sleeves can both enjoy pregger life. YOU are the one saying ONLY bands can safely have a baby. So go ahead, prove your case with the latest stats and info. We are all waiting.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:

1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are "new studies" without providing references amounts to lazy writing.

2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there a study you would like to cite for that, too?3. I think you and I have very different definitions of "fine" when it comes to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not ideal.

Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in an unborn human being.4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without citing any studies, by the way) as "defensive", even though you failed to make the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should choose one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal activists of "sleeve, only sleeve!" on this board. I am suggesting that others do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with some solid "science" you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal, no?

From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com>

@groups. comSent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM

Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.

I have to disagree with you that "everyone can eat normally with an unfilled band." I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.

I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many new studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is absolutely fine for pregnancy.

My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same experience. Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat "normally", like normal people normal, not the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with, what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly think that makes for a sound

nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that you personally never experienced. You have mysterious "friends" every one of whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know, which is the sleeve. Thank you!

From: Gail <sweetsmile1955>

@groups. com

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

I I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3" and weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy.

Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and

can only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food tastes much better!

I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we will be happy to help you!

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

@groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, "Ms. Maddox all you have to do

is exercise, to get a new body", I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 7, 2008

Hope...I wrote a very inappropriate post to you yesterday and I should not have done that. You struck a nerve when you compared a sleeved person to a 3rd world starving person. That is a comment I would expect from someone completely and totally ignorant of WLS, not a WLS patient. Have you actually had surgery yet? Have you completed the learning curve of eating with WLS?

I will rewrite a response to you.I agree with you, there are a great many issues to tackle here, let's start with yours. Shall we?The studies started with Cirangle in CA. He is the first person to write of long term weight loss of WLS. We KNOW the long term aspects of total and partial gastrectomies, they have been done for 100 years now. As is often mentioned what we didn't know until Cirangle and his studies was the long term weight loss of sleeves. Pregnancy can be done very safely with NO stomach, we've known that for years. We didn't know long term weight loss stats as that had never been formally tracked. Now we do know.

Now, my question for you is this, if we already know, and have known for 50-100 years (literally) that people can very safely have a baby with 1/4 of a stomach, just how do you figure that having a baby with a vertical sleeve is not possible? Do tell, why in the world would you compare a sleeved person to a 3rd world, poor, starving, malnourished, woman having a baby? What in heaven's name do the two have to do with one another? I would suggest a bit of reading on the gastric sleeve.

I have news for you, the baby isn't going to suffer in the way you believe they would. Even if the mother was not getting perfect nutrition the baby gets theirs first, Mom gets what is leftover. Sure, we take care of the baby by taking care of the Mom. But the baby isn't the one that would be as much at risk as the Mom would be if she lived on half the nutrition needed.

What in the world makes you think a sleeved person can't eat normal portions? Portion size might be up for discussion here. Can I go out and eat a typical porterhouse, baked potato, onion rings, and top that off with a slice of French Silk Pie? Nope, can't do it. But I can eat NORMAL portions, portions we are supposed to eat but didn't before surgery. For breakfast this morning I ate a container of peach yogurt with fresh raspberries and freshly made (short expiration date/refrigerated) granola with dried cranberries and peaches I ate about 1 cup of chicken veggie soup I made yesterday for lunch. Chicken, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, celery, onions, yellow squash, and bell peppers. It took awhile, but I did it. ;o) For dinner I might have Ricotta cheese/spinach ravioli & Marinara sauce and steamed veggies. Before bed I'll drink a protein shake and why you ask? Because I like them.

What is horrible about this type and quantity of food?It is my opinion that you are trying to start a surgery war and I think you'll find that does not fly on this board. I don't think you'll like the responses you receive when you begin this behavior.

Now, you are the one that originally claimed only bands are acceptable for pregnancy. Prove your case. We are waiting. Be sure to let Dr. Aceves know because it will be news to him as well.As for Gail, she was referring to personal experience. Believe it or not, that is acceptable on this board. You are the one making across the board accusations so you back up your own stance. Again, we are all anxiously awaiting all these studies you have to disprove those who know about the sleeve.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <hopekay@...> wrote:

So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:

1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are " new studies " without providing references amounts to lazy writing.

2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there a study you would like to cite for that, too?3. I think you and I have very different definitions of " fine " when it comes to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not ideal.

Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in an unborn human being.4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without citing any studies, by the way) as " defensive " , even though you failed to make the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should choose one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal activists of " sleeve, only sleeve! " on this board. I am suggesting that others do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with some solid " science " you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal, no?

From: Bipley <Bipley@...>

Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM

Subject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.

I have to disagree with you that " everyone can eat normally with an unfilled band. " I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.

I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many new studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is absolutely fine for pregnancy.

My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same experience. Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat " normally " , like normal people normal, not the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with, what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly think that makes for a sound

nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that you personally never experienced. You have mysterious " friends " every one of whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know, which is the sleeve. Thank you!

From: Gail <sweetsmile1955>

@groups. com

Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

I I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3 " and weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap band and pregnancy.

Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and

can only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food tastes much better!

I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we will be happy to help you!

Warmly,

Gail

From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

@groups. comDate: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you have to do

is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

December 7, 2008

I have been reading all the posts for about a year. Quietly, most of

the time, since I I haven't had my operation yet. Just gathering

information for when it happens. I think we come to this forum

mostly for personal experiences since this is for people who have

had WLS and not doctors or scientists, which doesn't mean we don't

care for stats, but that we are looking for the human side of the

stats.

First of all, I think that Gail, Bipley and many others are very

intelligent, educated and no BS kind of people. This is basically

why I come to the forum. The information shared here is supposed to

be PERSONAL, so, if you are looking for stats, go read something

else. Maybe books on WLS, but it you are looking for PERSONAL

experience, here is the place.

For what I've gathered so far, from all the personal experiences

I've read, is that although the lap-band has many advantages, there

are also many problems that may go with it. The sleeve seems to have

less problems.

Again, why do people get so upset? Get your information, make your

own decision and go for it. You decision is personal. The opinions

and experiences here are also personal, but shared. NObody should

get so upset for somebody else's choice.

Thank you Bipley, Gail and everybody that has been so wonderful to

share their lives here, to help everyone else make their own choice.

> >>

> >> From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox>

> >> Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

> >> @groups. com

> >> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

> >>

> >> Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have

> >> bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover

it. I am

> >> a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you

have to do

> >> is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just

had a

> >> baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

> >>

> >

>

December 7, 2008

Hi Hope,

I asked if we could move on to something else. I don't believe I attacked you at all. This is an open form and I believe that other people will agree with me that it is time to move on. I think you are so caught up in this that you are unable to see what is being said.

You used this wording in your last sentence " If it is, you are acting as a community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it did not start with me." I would like to quote what the meaning of "opinion" is from the dictionary. Believe me we all heard your opinion and that is all it was --your opinion, just like mine or Bipley's

Opinion: 1 belief or statement based at least partly on one's judgement rather than upon clear or proven facts; notion, view. 2 statement of judgement on a case or point of law

I believe as I said before everyone has a passion and there is a time to move on. Hold on to your passion, but know that there is always more than one answer to things. As you pointed out I am an old lady, and I must have learned something along the way to being 63 years old. I believe they call it life's experiences. I know that Dr. Aceves highly respects Bipley statements and opinions and expert knowledge because he and I had talked about some things that she helped me with. He was very supportive of her. And I am sure he would be of you too if you had a discussion with him about this subject.

Again this isn't about who is right or wrong this is about what is best for the whole of the group.

Suzanne

In a message dated 12/7/2008 5:18:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, hopekay@... writes:

Dear Suzanne, No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made by Bipley and others disparaging and belittling me personally, which you chose to ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their level? Why are you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more information, and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me? You chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started with "Oh my, someone is upset" and included statements like "Stop stomping those feeties". Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you going to highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley to stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it did not start with me.

From: "SuzanneSHaol" <SuzanneSHaol> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:49:21 PMSubject: Re: Trying to see which way to go

Hi Hope,

This isn't about who is right or wrong here. This is about support for new people and people who have been on this site there a long time. I can't tell you how much support I felt when I was trying to make a choice for myself --and in the end it was all about me and what was right for me!!! So this kind of on going LONG, LONG E-mail that you did seem to have time to do this time isn't what most of us are really looking for. I believe that 95% of us are all SMART enough to check with our doctors or Dr. Aceves if we had questions about being pregnant and what was best for us. Most of us do speak from experience because we aren't medical people. And if we make a mistake and say something incorrect that is OK too--we are human and not perfect. If I wanted to have the weight loss surgery, then I was SMART enough to ask all the questions that I felt I needed to know and what is going to be best for me now and in the future.

I am someone standing on the side lines and I see this as a personal attack--you are the one who opened this up claiming Gail didn't know what she was talking about. Anyone can always take the information and use it or not use it--that is up to the people who are reading this--give them some credit please for being here and reading this information.

We teach people how to treat us. Are you doing that? So it really is time to let this go, this isn't the place to do this. If feels like you are trying to be a "right fighter." It isn't so much about the content of what one says but more about always being right ALL the time. You have your passion and Bipley has her passion and for me I have my passion, and I never expect everyone to feel the same way I do. It isn't about who has the most current or best information all the time or who is right or wrong. As a community I think most of us are ready to move on to something else. I--(now remember this is my feeling and now one else) find your first sentence condescending to Bipley with this statement. "Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS."

Enough is enough

Suzanne

In a message dated 12/7/2008 1:39:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, hopekay (DOT) com writes:

Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS. I appealed to common sense, not cited studies. But YOU insisted I have old information. So, you have the new studies? Pony up. I again point out the hypocrisy of you and Gail spouting misinformation unchecked while insulting others. And I did Google for these new studies before ever sending the message, and found nothing. But what I did find is this note from Dr. Aceves here http://www.mexicali bariatriccenter. com/Lap-band_ Advantages. asp: "[P]regnancy, . . . may require that your food intake be increased or decreased by modifying the capacity of the stomach." Pregnancy requires more food?! Who would've thought! What's next, "pregnancy requires not just food, but nutrition"? Revolutionary! So unless you found a way of adjusting the capacity of your sleeved stomach, per Dr. Aceves, the band is better. I am eagerly await those new studies you mentioned disproving Dr. Aceves' note. Why are you so shy about posting them here? If it is valuable new information, we all deserve the right to know, especially the new patients considering their options before surgery. This is your chance to educate this community, I would have thought you would be jumping at it. I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to learn something new.For Robyn, you respond to a request to stop posting misinformation and provide references to the new studies by calling me names? Do not lower yourself to this level. I have not made one thing personal, but others have, including you. Shame.For Gail, I love and admire your enthusiasm, and I sincerely hope you will keep posting about your experience with the sleeve. All I ask of you is to stop posting erroneus information that you will admit in the very next line you know nothing about, or speculate about experience with the band you didn't have. If I were to start posting about people I know whose sleeves leak, you and Bipley would be all over me like white on rice, saying the exact same thing - individual experiences are not indicative of the overall trend. I ask you, respectfully, to stop doing the same when it comes to the band. Notice I did not make it about my surgery, or my band, or my experience. And to your question as to why don't I post about my experience as a counter to yours, unlike you, I do not have the luxury of typing out a lengthy response to the question that repeats itself at least once a week. This board has a wealth of knowledge, for example, the discussion we had on how different "full" feels with the band and sleeve was very informational, in particular, Bipley's contribution to it because she had both. That kind of first hand experience is invaluable and should be preserved in some manner, like an FAQ, because I would imagine people start suffering from response fatigue answering the same questions over and over again. I post when something is blatantly wrong or out of the ordinary, like Ernesto being called a crazy driver, or sleeve suddenly becoming better than the band for pregnancy, or if someone needs enoucragement and my experience is somehow relevant. I am glad you find time to contribute here on a more regular basis, but it's a shame that when you share your positive experience with the sleeve you chose to disparage the band every time and we simply do not have enough vocal bandsters here to provide a counter view point. Perhaps that's because when someone does counter, Bipley seems to turn it into a personal attack?

From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com> @groups. comSent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:48:18 AMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go< /font>