Re: Trying to see which way to go

December 7, 2008

Six.I am sorry you feel like a monkey, Bipley, but it's no excuse not to share valuable information with others who could use it. Unless... you never had it to begin with. From: Bipley <Bipley@...> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:38:34 PMSubject: Re:

Trying to see which way to go

Ever see a really mean monkey in a cage? Ever poke that mean monkey with a stick and watch him respond?Poke poke.Game's over, you lose. You didn't follow BASIC debate like taught in Jr. High school. Now we get to ignore you. If you don't follow the same standards as you expect from others, you don't get to play.

Poke pokeOn Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:19 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Five. Still waiting.Actually, I didn't make the claim first. Gail did. So make up your mind, dear Bipley. Which is it? Is it ok to post my "opinions" without backing them up, like Gail? In that case, you don't have a problem with me, do you? Or do I have to provide a study for everything I say, in that case, let's hear from Gail about this fascinating new study on the band putting "more pressure on the stomach." YOU made the claim that there are new studies, YOU failed time and time again to cite to any, again and again and again. Now you are threatening to go and sulk in the corner. Did you even make it to Jr. High?

About the word "professional", I'll give you a clue: they don't obsess about people's feet. Unless you are THAT kind of professional, Bipley.You didn't need

to start typing out long emails trying to find ways to question my experience or education or finding creative ways to describe my behavior. All you had to do was provide a link to the information you claimed to have. Why take such a long route, Bipley? Is this your normal manner of operation, attempting to silence others by bulling them? No wonder there are others out there who disagree with you yet post rarely, if ever - no one like a bully, Bipley.

From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com> @groups. com

Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 7:57:28 PMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

If an accurate description of your behaviors is something you find insulting, perhaps you need to start behaving like an adult.Suzanne most certainly is not an older lady. That is insulting. You aren't even good at the passive aggressive routine.

You made the original claim, you get to go first. Post your proof. You did take Jr. High School level debate class, you do know how this works. Right? I think several of us want to see what you base all these attacks

and feetie stomping. Okay, you get ONE more chance to post your proof defending your original claim. You made the claim first, you post your proof. Let's see the studies. If you don't then we get to point, giggle, then ignore you.

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 5:27 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear Suzanne, No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made by Bipley and others

disparaging and belittling me personally, which you chose to ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their level? Why are you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more information, and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me? You chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started with "Oh my, someone is upset" and included statements like "Stop stomping those feeties". Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you going to highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley to

stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it did not start with me.

December 7, 2008

Poke pokeOn Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:44 PM, NW <hopekay@...> wrote:

Six.I am sorry you feel like a monkey, Bipley, but it's no excuse not to share valuable information with others who could use it. Unless... you never had it to begin with.

From: Bipley <Bipley@...>

Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:38:34 PM

Subject: Re:

Trying to see which way to go

Ever see a really mean monkey in a cage? Ever poke that mean monkey with a stick and watch him respond?Poke poke.Game's over, you lose. You didn't follow BASIC debate like taught in Jr. High school. Now we get to ignore you. If you don't follow the same standards as you expect from others, you don't get to play.

Poke pokeOn Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:19 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Five. Still waiting.Actually, I didn't make the claim first. Gail did. So make up your mind, dear Bipley. Which is it? Is it ok to post my " opinions " without backing them up, like Gail? In that case, you don't have a problem with me, do you? Or do I have to provide a study for everything I say, in that case, let's hear from Gail about this fascinating new study on the band putting " more pressure on the stomach. " YOU made the claim that there are new studies, YOU failed time and time again to cite to any, again and again and again. Now you are threatening to go and sulk in the corner. Did you even make it to Jr. High?

About the word " professional " , I'll give you a clue: they don't obsess about people's feet. Unless you are THAT kind of professional, Bipley.You didn't need

to start typing out long emails trying to find ways to question my experience or education or finding creative ways to describe my behavior. All you had to do was provide a link to the information you claimed to have. Why take such a long route, Bipley? Is this your normal manner of operation, attempting to silence others by bulling them? No wonder there are others out there who disagree with you yet post rarely, if ever - no one like a bully, Bipley.

From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com> @groups. com

Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 7:57:28 PMSubject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

If an accurate description of your behaviors is something you find insulting, perhaps you need to start behaving like an adult.Suzanne most certainly is not an older lady. That is insulting. You aren't even good at the passive aggressive routine.

You made the original claim, you get to go first. Post your proof. You did take Jr. High School level debate class, you do know how this works. Right? I think several of us want to see what you base all these attacks

and feetie stomping. Okay, you get ONE more chance to post your proof defending your original claim. You made the claim first, you post your proof. Let's see the studies. If you don't then we get to point, giggle, then ignore you.

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 5:27 PM, NW <hopekay (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear Suzanne, No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made by Bipley and others

disparaging and belittling me personally, which you chose to ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their level? Why are you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more information, and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me? You chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started with " Oh my, someone is upset " and included statements like " Stop stomping those feeties " . Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you going to highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley to

stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it did not start with me.

December 7, 2008

I hope my comments regarding the orignial question will get seen.

I wanted to give my experience regarding the band and why I do think it is an

option worth exploring. As mentioned, yes you do need aftercare...some more

than others....with a band. Hey for $400 (cost of airfare, xray & hotel nt in

MX) I get a nice little vacation for the midwest. But seriously, I finally

think I am at my sweet spot which would mean no more follow up. The reason why

I am advocate for the band and felt compelled to write this is a " feature " not

yet discussed and that is the kind of restriction it gives *me*. Before having

the band I was a bread/carb addict and I could not stay away from them, they

were my weakness. My band does not allow me to eat these things very

comfortably; I do not like how they make me feel. Any bandster will tell you

the feeling of being " stuck " is very uncomfortable therefore not eating that

food again is a lot easier to do with the band. I also liked the idea of the

band for *me* because it seemed the least invasive of the procedures. The most

important part of this journey is doing your research and feeling confident in

the decision. The one decision is a no-brianer is Dr. Aceves. This man gave me

my life back and I will forever be grateful.

Good Luck!

Nadine

DOB 3/24/07

372(346)/222/size 8

---- SuzanneSH@... wrote:

> Hi Hope,

>

> I asked if we could move on to something else. I don't believe I attacked

> you at all. This is an open form and I believe that other people will agree

> with me that it is time to move on. I think you are so caught up in this

that

> you are unable to see what is being said.

>

> You used this wording in your last sentence " If it is, you are acting as a

> community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its

> members, and it did not start with me. " I would like to quote what the

meaning of

> " opinion " is from the dictionary. Believe me we all heard your opinion and

> that is all it was --your opinion, just like mine or Bipley's

>

> Opinion: 1 belief or statement based at least partly on one's judgement

> rather than upon clear or proven facts; notion, view. 2 statement of

judgement

> on a case or point of law

>

> I believe as I said before everyone has a passion and there is a time to

> move on. Hold on to your passion, but know that there is always more than one

> answer to things. As you pointed out I am an old lady, and I must have

learned

> something along the way to being 63 years old. I believe they call it

> life's experiences. I know that Dr. Aceves highly respects Bipley statements

and

> opinions and expert knowledge because he and I had talked about some things

> that she helped me with. He was very supportive of her. And I am sure he

would

> be of you too if you had a discussion with him about this subject.

>

> Again this isn't about who is right or wrong this is about what is best for

> the whole of the group.

>

> Suzanne

>

> In a message dated 12/7/2008 5:18:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> hopekay@... writes:

>

> Dear Suzanne,

>

> No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to

> yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made by

> Bipley and others disparaging and belittling me personally, which you chose

to

> ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your

> pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their level?

Why are

> you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more information,

> and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me? You

> chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started with

> " Oh my, someone is upset " and included statements like " Stop stomping those

> feeties " . Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you going

to

> highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley to

> stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a

> community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a community

> determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it

did not

> start with me.

>

> ____________________________________

> From: " SuzanneSHaol (DOT) " Suzanne<SuzanneSH@...>

> Dr-Aceve

> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:49:21 PM

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster<WBR

>

> Hi Hope,

>

> This isn't about who is right or wrong here. This is about support for new

> people and people who have been on this site there a long time. I can't tell

> you how much support I felt when I was trying to make a choice for myself

> --and in the end it was all about me and what was right for me!!! So this

kind

> of on going LONG, LONG E-mail that you did seem to have time to do this

> time isn't what most of us are really looking for. I believe that 95% of us

are

> all SMART enough to check with our doctors or Dr. Aceves if we had questions

> about being pregnant and what was best for us. Most of us do speak from

> experience because we aren't medical people. And if we make a mistake and

say

> something incorrect that is OK too--we are human and not perfect. If I

> wanted to have the weight loss surgery, then I was SMART enough to ask all

the

> questions that I felt I needed to know and what is going to be best for me

now

> and in the future.

>

> I am someone standing on the side lines and I see this as a personal

> attack--you are the one who opened this up claiming Gail didn't know what she

was

> talking about. Anyone can always take the information and use it or not use

> it--that is up to the people who are reading this--give them some credit

> please for being here and reading this information.

>

> We teach people how to treat us. Are you doing that? So it really is time

> to let this go, this isn't the place to do this. If feels like you are

trying

> to be a " right fighter. " It isn't so much about the content of what one

> says but more about always being right ALL the time. You have your passion

and

> Bipley has her passion and for me I have my passion, and I never expect

> everyone to feel the same way I do. It isn't about who has the most current

or

> best information all the time or who is right or wrong. As a community I

think

> most of us are ready to move on to something else. I--(now remember this is

> my feeling and now one else) find your first sentence condescending to Bipley

> with this statement. " Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with

> being called on your BS. "

>

> Enough is enough

>

> Suzanne

>

> In a message dated 12/7/2008 1:39:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> hopekay (DOT) com writes:

>

> Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS.

> I appealed to common sense, not cited studies. But YOU insisted I have old

> information. So, you have the new studies? Pony up. I again point out the

> hypocrisy of you and Gail spouting misinformation unchecked while insulting

> others. And I did Google for these new studies before ever sending the

message,

> and found nothing. But what I did find is this note from Dr. Aceves here

> http://www.mexicali bariatriccenter. com/Lap-band_ Advantages. asp:

" [P]regnancy,

> . . . may require that your food intake be increased or decreased by

> modifying the capacity of the stomach. " Pregnancy requires more food?! Who

would've

> thought! What's next, " pregnancy requires not just food, but nutrition " ?

> Revolutionary! So unless you found a way of adjusting the capacity of your

sleeved

> stomach, per Dr. Aceves, the band is better. I am eagerly await those new

> studies you mentioned disproving Dr. Aceves' note. Why are you so shy about

> posting them here? If it is valuable new information, we all deserve the

right

> to know, especially the new patients considering their options before

surgery.

> This is your chance to educate this community, I would have thought you

> would be jumping at it. I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to learn

> something new.

>

> For Robyn, you respond to a request to stop posting misinformation and

> provide references to the new studies by calling me names? Do not lower

yourself

> to this level. I have not made one thing personal, but others have, including

> you. Shame.

>

> For Gail, I love and admire your enthusiasm, and I sincerely hope you will

> keep posting about your experience with the sleeve. All I ask of you is to

> stop posting erroneus information that you will admit in the very next line

you

> know nothing about, or speculate about experience with the band you didn't

> have. If I were to start posting about people I know whose sleeves leak, you

> and Bipley would be all over me like white on rice, saying the exact same

thing

> - individual experiences are not indicative of the overall trend. I ask

> you, respectfully, to stop doing the same when it comes to the band. Notice I

> did not make it about my surgery, or my band, or my experience. And to your

> question as to why don't I post about my experience as a counter to yours,

> unlike you, I do not have the luxury of typing out a lengthy response to the

> question that repeats itself at least once a week. This board has a wealth of

> knowledge, for example, the discussion we had on how different " full " feels

with

> the band and sleeve was very informational, in particular, Bipley's

> contribution to it because she had both. That kind of first hand experience

is

> invaluable and should be preserved in some manner, like an FAQ, because I

would

> imagine people start suffering from response fatigue answering the same

questions

> over and over again. I post when something is blatantly wrong or out of the

> ordinary, like Ernesto being called a crazy driver, or sleeve suddenly

> becoming better than the band for pregnancy, or if someone needs

enoucragement and

> my experience is somehow relevant. I am glad you find time to contribute here

> on a more regular basis, but it's a shame that when you share your positive

> experience with the sleeve you chose to disparage the band every time and we

> simply do not have enough vocal bandsters here to provide a counter view

> point. Perhaps that's because when someone does counter, Bipley seems to turn

it

> into a personal attack?

>

> ____________________________________

> From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com>

> @groups. com

> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:48:18 AM

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

>

>

> Oh my, someone is upset.

>

> #1) I'd suggest talking to your surgeon. That is still in fashion, right?

> After *I* talked to him I did a simple Google search. It's easy, honest.

> I'd research cirangle but what do I know, right?

>

> #2) Ohhhhh no you don't! You are the one that inferred the few negative

> band experiences. You prove your own damn case.

>

> #3) You are making the comparison that 3rd world countries produce the same

> children as sleeved women. You prove your own case, then I'll produce my own

> studies crushing the heck out of yours. Common sense seems to be up for

> debate here. You made the original claims that banding is superior for

pregnant

> women than sleeves. Prove your case.

>

> #4) You are claiming innocence that you do not deserve. You told her she

> was wrong, show her how. Cite your studies, prove your case. Stop stomping

> those feeties and prove your case once and for all. YOU are the one claiming

> banding is superior to sleeves for pregnancy, so prove your case. I'll wait.

> Gail was pretty darn clear that she was referring to personal experience.

> YOU are the one claiming fact across the board so do post your facts.

Again,

> I'll wait.

>

> *I* am the one saying bands and sleeves are fine for preggos. You have made

> it more than clear that you disagree. Prove your case. No, dear. We have

> no common goal. I am the one saying bands and sleeves can both enjoy pregger

> life. YOU are the one saying ONLY bands can safely have a baby. So go

> ahead, prove your case with the latest stats and info. We are all waiting.

>

> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_

> (mailto:hopekay@...) > wrote:

>

> So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:

>

> 1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies

> instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are " new

> studies " without providing references amounts to lazy writing.

>

> 2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall

> effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there

> a study you would like to cite for that, too?

>

> 3. I think you and I have very different definitions of " fine " when it comes

> to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give

> birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not

ideal.

> Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in

> an unborn human being.

>

> 4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop

> spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without

> citing any studies, by the way) as " defensive " , even though you failed to

make

> the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let

> others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should

choose

> one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal

> activists of " sleeve, only sleeve! " on this board. I am suggesting that

others

> do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and

> when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with

> some solid " science " you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal,

> no?

>

> ____________________________________

> From: Bipley <_Bipleygmail (DOT) com_ (mailto:Bipley@...) >

>

> _ @groups. com_

> (mailto: )

>

> Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM

>

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

> I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is

> talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most

> incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.

>

> I have to disagree with you that " everyone can eat normally with an unfilled

> band. " I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a

> bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.

>

> I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what

> works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with

> you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many

new

> studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is

> absolutely fine for pregnancy.

>

> My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and

> allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree

> with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their

> procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am

> sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same

experience.

> Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

>

> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_

> (mailto:hopekay@...) > wrote:

>

> Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone

> asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and

> poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond

> reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and

> how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do

not

> post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the

> pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the

> sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat " normally " , like normal people

normal, not

> the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with,

> what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly

> think that makes for a sound nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least

> admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band

> through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it

precisely

> because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You

love

> your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for

> you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and

> people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that

> you personally never experienced. You have mysterious " friends " every one of

> whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who

> successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them

talk

> and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know,

> which is the sleeve. Thank you!

>

> ____________________________________

> From: Gail <_sweetsmile1955@ _ (mailto:sweetsmile1955@...) >

> _ @groups. com_

> (mailto: )

> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PM

>

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

> I

> I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3 " and

> weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I

> am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby,

> it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good

> thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any

> problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the

baby

> moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap

> band and pregnancy.

>

> Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much

> better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now

> feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went

> to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up

> getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one

> half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to

my

> son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but

> today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I

> no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't

> and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I

now

> eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce

> that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and can

> only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food

> tastes much better!

>

> I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we

> will be happy to help you!

>

> Warmly,

> Gail

>

> From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@ __ (http:///) >

> Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

> @groups. com

>

> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

>

> Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have

> bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am

> a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you have to do

> is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a

> baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

>

> ____________________________________

> Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in

> one place. _Try it now_

>

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>

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December 8, 2008

Great comments and explanation for your choice, Nadine. I think you have illustrated what is most important; that everyone has to make their own choice based on their own set of circumstances. Both operations have pros and cons and you have to pick what's best for you. The purpose of this forum is to encourage, support, and enlighten others with each of our experiences and share the reasons we made the selection we did. It is then up to the individual to collect all the information and make their own responsible decision. I spent 15 months reading and asking questions before deciding on the sleeve which I felt was the best option for me. The primary reasons for selecting the sleeve were: 1) I hate needles and did not like the thought of fills, 2) I did not want to deal with the after care and cost, and 3) I had no plans to ever " undo " the procedure. Again, these were just my reasons; valid or not. Yes, we will disagree but personal attacks help no one.

Joyce

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 12:08 AM, <nadine4@...> wrote:

I hope my comments regarding the orignial question will get seen.I wanted to give my experience regarding the band and why I do think it is an option worth exploring. As mentioned, yes you do need aftercare...some more than others....with a band. Hey for $400 (cost of airfare, xray & hotel nt in MX) I get a nice little vacation for the midwest. But seriously, I finally think I am at my sweet spot which would mean no more follow up. The reason why I am advocate for the band and felt compelled to write this is a " feature " not yet discussed and that is the kind of restriction it gives *me*. Before having the band I was a bread/carb addict and I could not stay away from them, they were my weakness. My band does not allow me to eat these things very comfortably; I do not like how they make me feel. Any bandster will tell you the feeling of being " stuck " is very uncomfortable therefore not eating that food again is a lot easier to do with the band. I also liked the idea of the band for *me* because it seemed the least invasive of the procedures. The most important part of this journey is doing your research and feeling confident in the decision. The one decision is a no-brianer is Dr. Aceves. This man gave me my life back and I will forever be grateful.

Good Luck!NadineDOB 3/24/07372(346)/222/size 8---- SuzanneSH@... wrote: > Hi Hope,> > I asked if we could move on to something else. I don't believe I attacked

> you at all. This is an open form and I believe that other people will agree > with me that it is time to move on. I think you are so caught up in this that > you are unable to see what is being said.

> > You used this wording in your last sentence " If it is, you are acting as a > community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its > members, and it did not start with me. " I would like to quote what the meaning of

> " opinion " is from the dictionary. Believe me we all heard your opinion and > that is all it was --your opinion, just like mine or Bipley's> > Opinion: 1 belief or statement based at least partly on one's judgement

> rather than upon clear or proven facts; notion, view. 2 statement of judgement > on a case or point of law > > I believe as I said before everyone has a passion and there is a time to > move on. Hold on to your passion, but know that there is always more than one

> answer to things. As you pointed out I am an old lady, and I must have learned > something along the way to being 63 years old. I believe they call it > life's experiences. I know that Dr. Aceves highly respects Bipley statements and

> opinions and expert knowledge because he and I had talked about some things > that she helped me with. He was very supportive of her. And I am sure he would > be of you too if you had a discussion with him about this subject.

> > Again this isn't about who is right or wrong this is about what is best for > the whole of the group.> > Suzanne> > > > > > > In a message dated 12/7/2008 5:18:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> hopekay@... writes:> > > > > > Dear Suzanne, > > No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to

> yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made by > Bipley and others disparaging and belittling me personally, which you chose to > ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your

> pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their level? Why are > you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more information, > and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me? You

> chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started with > " Oh my, someone is upset " and included statements like " Stop stomping those > feeties " . Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you going to

> highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley to > stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a > community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a community

> determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it did not > start with me.> > > > ____________________________________> From: " SuzanneSHaol (DOT) " Suzanne<SuzanneSH@...>

> Dr-Aceve > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:49:21 PM> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster > > Hi Hope,> > This isn't about who is right or wrong here. This is about support for new

> people and people who have been on this site there a long time. I can't tell > you how much support I felt when I was trying to make a choice for myself > --and in the end it was all about me and what was right for me!!! So this kind

> of on going LONG, LONG E-mail that you did seem to have time to do this > time isn't what most of us are really looking for. I believe that 95% of us are > all SMART enough to check with our doctors or Dr. Aceves if we had questions

> about being pregnant and what was best for us. Most of us do speak from > experience because we aren't medical people. And if we make a mistake and say > something incorrect that is OK too--we are human and not perfect. If I

> wanted to have the weight loss surgery, then I was SMART enough to ask all the > questions that I felt I needed to know and what is going to be best for me now > and in the future. > > I am someone standing on the side lines and I see this as a personal

> attack--you are the one who opened this up claiming Gail didn't know what she was > talking about. Anyone can always take the information and use it or not use > it--that is up to the people who are reading this--give them some credit

> please for being here and reading this information. > > We teach people how to treat us. Are you doing that? So it really is time > to let this go, this isn't the place to do this. If feels like you are trying

> to be a " right fighter. " It isn't so much about the content of what one > says but more about always being right ALL the time. You have your passion and > Bipley has her passion and for me I have my passion, and I never expect

> everyone to feel the same way I do. It isn't about who has the most current or > best information all the time or who is right or wrong. As a community I think > most of us are ready to move on to something else. I--(now remember this is

> my feeling and now one else) find your first sentence condescending to Bipley > with this statement. " Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with > being called on your BS. " >

> Enough is enough> > Suzanne> > > In a message dated 12/7/2008 1:39:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > hopekay (DOT) com writes:> > > > >

> Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS. > I appealed to common sense, not cited studies. But YOU insisted I have old > information. So, you have the new studies? Pony up. I again point out the

> hypocrisy of you and Gail spouting misinformation unchecked while insulting > others. And I did Google for these new studies before ever sending the message, > and found nothing. But what I did find is this note from Dr. Aceves here

> http://www.mexicali bariatriccenter. com/Lap-band_ Advantages. asp: " [P]regnancy, > . . . may require that your food intake be increased or decreased by

> modifying the capacity of the stomach. " Pregnancy requires more food?! Who would've > thought! What's next, " pregnancy requires not just food, but nutrition " ? > Revolutionary! So unless you found a way of adjusting the capacity of your sleeved

> stomach, per Dr. Aceves, the band is better. I am eagerly await those new > studies you mentioned disproving Dr. Aceves' note. Why are you so shy about > posting them here? If it is valuable new information, we all deserve the right

> to know, especially the new patients considering their options before surgery. > This is your chance to educate this community, I would have thought you > would be jumping at it. I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to learn

> something new.> > For Robyn, you respond to a request to stop posting misinformation and > provide references to the new studies by calling me names? Do not lower yourself > to this level. I have not made one thing personal, but others have, including

> you. Shame.> > For Gail, I love and admire your enthusiasm, and I sincerely hope you will > keep posting about your experience with the sleeve. All I ask of you is to > stop posting erroneus information that you will admit in the very next line you

> know nothing about, or speculate about experience with the band you didn't > have. If I were to start posting about people I know whose sleeves leak, you > and Bipley would be all over me like white on rice, saying the exact same thing

> - individual experiences are not indicative of the overall trend. I ask > you, respectfully, to stop doing the same when it comes to the band. Notice I > did not make it about my surgery, or my band, or my experience. And to your

> question as to why don't I post about my experience as a counter to yours, > unlike you, I do not have the luxury of typing out a lengthy response to the > question that repeats itself at least once a week. This board has a wealth of

> knowledge, for example, the discussion we had on how different " full " feels with > the band and sleeve was very informational, in particular, Bipley's > contribution to it because she had both. That kind of first hand experience is

> invaluable and should be preserved in some manner, like an FAQ, because I would > imagine people start suffering from response fatigue answering the same questions > over and over again. I post when something is blatantly wrong or out of the

> ordinary, like Ernesto being called a crazy driver, or sleeve suddenly > becoming better than the band for pregnancy, or if someone needs enoucragement and > my experience is somehow relevant. I am glad you find time to contribute here

> on a more regular basis, but it's a shame that when you share your positive > experience with the sleeve you chose to disparage the band every time and we > simply do not have enough vocal bandsters here to provide a counter view

> point. Perhaps that's because when someone does counter, Bipley seems to turn it > into a personal attack?> > > > ____________________________________> From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com>

> @groups. com> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:48:18 AM> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go> > > > Oh my, someone is upset.

> > #1) I'd suggest talking to your surgeon. That is still in fashion, right? > After *I* talked to him I did a simple Google search. It's easy, honest. > I'd research cirangle but what do I know, right?

> > #2) Ohhhhh no you don't! You are the one that inferred the few negative > band experiences. You prove your own damn case.> > #3) You are making the comparison that 3rd world countries produce the same

> children as sleeved women. You prove your own case, then I'll produce my own > studies crushing the heck out of yours. Common sense seems to be up for > debate here. You made the original claims that banding is superior for pregnant

> women than sleeves. Prove your case.> > #4) You are claiming innocence that you do not deserve. You told her she > was wrong, show her how. Cite your studies, prove your case. Stop stomping > those feeties and prove your case once and for all. YOU are the one claiming

> banding is superior to sleeves for pregnancy, so prove your case. I'll wait. > Gail was pretty darn clear that she was referring to personal experience. > YOU are the one claiming fact across the board so do post your facts. Again,

> I'll wait.> > *I* am the one saying bands and sleeves are fine for preggos. You have made > it more than clear that you disagree. Prove your case. No, dear. We have > no common goal. I am the one saying bands and sleeves can both enjoy pregger

> life. YOU are the one saying ONLY bands can safely have a baby. So go > ahead, prove your case with the latest stats and info. We are all waiting.> > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_

> (mailto:hopekay@...) > wrote:> > > > > > > So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:

> > 1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies > instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are " new > studies " without providing references amounts to lazy writing.

> > 2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall > effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there > a study you would like to cite for that, too?

> > 3. I think you and I have very different definitions of " fine " when it comes > to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give > birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not ideal.

> Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in > an unborn human being.> > 4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop > spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without

> citing any studies, by the way) as " defensive " , even though you failed to make > the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let > others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should choose

> one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal > activists of " sleeve, only sleeve! " on this board. I am suggesting that others > do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and

> when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with > some solid " science " you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal, > no? > > > > ____________________________________

> From: Bipley <_Bipleygmail (DOT) com_ (mailto:Bipley@...) > > > _ @groups. com_ > (mailto: )

> > Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go> > > > > I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is

> talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most > incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.> > I have to disagree with you that " everyone can eat normally with an unfilled

> band. " I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a > bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.> > I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what

> works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with > you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many new > studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is

> absolutely fine for pregnancy.> > My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and > allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree > with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their

> procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am > sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same experience. > Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

> > > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_ > (mailto:hopekay@...) > wrote:> > >

> > > > > > Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone > asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and > poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond

> reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and > how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not > post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the

> pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the > sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat " normally " , like normal people normal, not > the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with,

> what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly > think that makes for a sound nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least > admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band

> through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely > because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love > your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for

> you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and > people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that > you personally never experienced. You have mysterious " friends " every one of

> whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who > successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk > and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know,

> which is the sleeve. Thank you!> > > > > > > ____________________________________> From: Gail <_sweetsmile1955_ (mailto:sweetsmile1955@...) >

> _ @groups. com_ > (mailto: ) > Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PM

> > Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go> > > > > I > I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3 " and

> weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I > am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby, > it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good

> thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any > problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby > moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap

> band and pregnancy. > > Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much > better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now > feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went

> to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up > getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one > half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my

> son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but > today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I > no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't

> and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now > eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce > that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and can

> only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food > tastes much better!> > I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we > will be happy to help you!

> > Warmly,> Gail> > > > From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@ __ (http:///) >

> Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go > > @groups. com> > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM> > > > Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have

> bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am > a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you have to do > is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a

> baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> ____________________________________> Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in > one place. _Try it now_ > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) .

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December 8, 2008

Nadine...Just wanted to add something.There will always be aftercare for the band. When you get to your sweet spot then lose more weight you will often times lose your sweet spot. Another issue is that the plastic in the band is a bit porous. Over time (year or two) saline will evaporate from your band and you'll need small fills to replace it unless you can maintain your weight without being at your sweet spot. I wouldn't have been able to but some are.

I do credit the band with getting me off bread, that was a huge challenge for me, white carbs. I really don't eat flour products anymore, that was my trigger food (still is) and if I start eating them I can't stop. The band did afford me the opportunity to recognize that and deal with it.

I'm driving distance from Mexicali so the aftercare wasn't an issue for me, I just wasn't cut out for a band.On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 12:08 AM, <nadine4@...> wrote:

I hope my comments regarding the orignial question will get seen.

I wanted to give my experience regarding the band and why I do think it is an option worth exploring. As mentioned, yes you do need aftercare...some more than others....with a band. Hey for $400 (cost of airfare, xray & hotel nt in MX) I get a nice little vacation for the midwest. But seriously, I finally think I am at my sweet spot which would mean no more follow up. The reason why I am advocate for the band and felt compelled to write this is a " feature " not yet discussed and that is the kind of restriction it gives *me*. Before having the band I was a bread/carb addict and I could not stay away from them, they were my weakness. My band does not allow me to eat these things very comfortably; I do not like how they make me feel. Any bandster will tell you the feeling of being " stuck " is very uncomfortable therefore not eating that food again is a lot easier to do with the band. I also liked the idea of the band for *me* because it seemed the least invasive of the procedures. The most important part of this journey is doing your research and feeling confident in the decision. The one decision is a no-brianer is Dr. Aceves. This man gave me my life back and I will forever be grateful.

Good Luck!

Nadine

DOB 3/24/07

372(346)/222/size 8

---- SuzanneSH@... wrote:

> Hi Hope,

>

> I asked if we could move on to something else. I don't believe I attacked

> you at all. This is an open form and I believe that other people will agree

> with me that it is time to move on. I think you are so caught up in this that

> you are unable to see what is being said.

>

> You used this wording in your last sentence " If it is, you are acting as a

> community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its

> members, and it did not start with me. " I would like to quote what the meaning of

> " opinion " is from the dictionary. Believe me we all heard your opinion and

> that is all it was --your opinion, just like mine or Bipley's

>

> Opinion: 1 belief or statement based at least partly on one's judgement

> rather than upon clear or proven facts; notion, view. 2 statement of judgement

> on a case or point of law

>

> I believe as I said before everyone has a passion and there is a time to

> move on. Hold on to your passion, but know that there is always more than one

> answer to things. As you pointed out I am an old lady, and I must have learned

> something along the way to being 63 years old. I believe they call it

> life's experiences. I know that Dr. Aceves highly respects Bipley statements and

> opinions and expert knowledge because he and I had talked about some things

> that she helped me with. He was very supportive of her. And I am sure he would

> be of you too if you had a discussion with him about this subject.

>

> Again this isn't about who is right or wrong this is about what is best for

> the whole of the group.

>

> Suzanne

>

> In a message dated 12/7/2008 5:18:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> hopekay@... writes:

>

> Dear Suzanne,

>

> No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to

> yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made by

> Bipley and others disparaging and belittling me personally, which you chose to

> ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your

> pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their level? Why are

> you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more information,

> and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me? You

> chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started with

> " Oh my, someone is upset " and included statements like " Stop stomping those

> feeties " . Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you going to

> highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley to

> stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a

> community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a community

> determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it did not

> start with me.

>

> ____________________________________

> From: " SuzanneSHaol (DOT) " Suzanne<SuzanneSH@...>

> Dr-Aceve

> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:49:21 PM

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster<WBR

>

> Hi Hope,

>

> This isn't about who is right or wrong here. This is about support for new

> people and people who have been on this site there a long time. I can't tell

> you how much support I felt when I was trying to make a choice for myself

> --and in the end it was all about me and what was right for me!!! So this kind

> of on going LONG, LONG E-mail that you did seem to have time to do this

> time isn't what most of us are really looking for. I believe that 95% of us are

> all SMART enough to check with our doctors or Dr. Aceves if we had questions

> about being pregnant and what was best for us. Most of us do speak from

> experience because we aren't medical people. And if we make a mistake and say

> something incorrect that is OK too--we are human and not perfect. If I

> wanted to have the weight loss surgery, then I was SMART enough to ask all the

> questions that I felt I needed to know and what is going to be best for me now

> and in the future.

>

> I am someone standing on the side lines and I see this as a personal

> attack--you are the one who opened this up claiming Gail didn't know what she was

> talking about. Anyone can always take the information and use it or not use

> it--that is up to the people who are reading this--give them some credit

> please for being here and reading this information.

>

> We teach people how to treat us. Are you doing that? So it really is time

> to let this go, this isn't the place to do this. If feels like you are trying

> to be a " right fighter. " It isn't so much about the content of what one

> says but more about always being right ALL the time. You have your passion and

> Bipley has her passion and for me I have my passion, and I never expect

> everyone to feel the same way I do. It isn't about who has the most current or

> best information all the time or who is right or wrong. As a community I think

> most of us are ready to move on to something else. I--(now remember this is

> my feeling and now one else) find your first sentence condescending to Bipley

> with this statement. " Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with

> being called on your BS. "

>

> Enough is enough

>

> Suzanne

>

> In a message dated 12/7/2008 1:39:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> hopekay (DOT) com writes:

>

> Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your BS.

> I appealed to common sense, not cited studies. But YOU insisted I have old

> information. So, you have the new studies? Pony up. I again point out the

> hypocrisy of you and Gail spouting misinformation unchecked while insulting

> others. And I did Google for these new studies before ever sending the message,

> and found nothing. But what I did find is this note from Dr. Aceves here

> http://www.mexicali bariatriccenter. com/Lap-band_ Advantages. asp: " [P]regnancy,

> . . . may require that your food intake be increased or decreased by

> modifying the capacity of the stomach. " Pregnancy requires more food?! Who would've

> thought! What's next, " pregnancy requires not just food, but nutrition " ?

> Revolutionary! So unless you found a way of adjusting the capacity of your sleeved

> stomach, per Dr. Aceves, the band is better. I am eagerly await those new

> studies you mentioned disproving Dr. Aceves' note. Why are you so shy about

> posting them here? If it is valuable new information, we all deserve the right

> to know, especially the new patients considering their options before surgery.

> This is your chance to educate this community, I would have thought you

> would be jumping at it. I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to learn

> something new.

>

> For Robyn, you respond to a request to stop posting misinformation and

> provide references to the new studies by calling me names? Do not lower yourself

> to this level. I have not made one thing personal, but others have, including

> you. Shame.

>

> For Gail, I love and admire your enthusiasm, and I sincerely hope you will

> keep posting about your experience with the sleeve. All I ask of you is to

> stop posting erroneus information that you will admit in the very next line you

> know nothing about, or speculate about experience with the band you didn't

> have. If I were to start posting about people I know whose sleeves leak, you

> and Bipley would be all over me like white on rice, saying the exact same thing

> - individual experiences are not indicative of the overall trend. I ask

> you, respectfully, to stop doing the same when it comes to the band. Notice I

> did not make it about my surgery, or my band, or my experience. And to your

> question as to why don't I post about my experience as a counter to yours,

> unlike you, I do not have the luxury of typing out a lengthy response to the

> question that repeats itself at least once a week. This board has a wealth of

> knowledge, for example, the discussion we had on how different " full " feels with

> the band and sleeve was very informational, in particular, Bipley's

> contribution to it because she had both. That kind of first hand experience is

> invaluable and should be preserved in some manner, like an FAQ, because I would

> imagine people start suffering from response fatigue answering the same questions

> over and over again. I post when something is blatantly wrong or out of the

> ordinary, like Ernesto being called a crazy driver, or sleeve suddenly

> becoming better than the band for pregnancy, or if someone needs enoucragement and

> my experience is somehow relevant. I am glad you find time to contribute here

> on a more regular basis, but it's a shame that when you share your positive

> experience with the sleeve you chose to disparage the band every time and we

> simply do not have enough vocal bandsters here to provide a counter view

> point. Perhaps that's because when someone does counter, Bipley seems to turn it

> into a personal attack?

>

> ____________________________________

> From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com>

> @groups. com

> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:48:18 AM

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

>

>

> Oh my, someone is upset.

>

> #1) I'd suggest talking to your surgeon. That is still in fashion, right?

> After *I* talked to him I did a simple Google search. It's easy, honest.

> I'd research cirangle but what do I know, right?

>

> #2) Ohhhhh no you don't! You are the one that inferred the few negative

> band experiences. You prove your own damn case.

>

> #3) You are making the comparison that 3rd world countries produce the same

> children as sleeved women. You prove your own case, then I'll produce my own

> studies crushing the heck out of yours. Common sense seems to be up for

> debate here. You made the original claims that banding is superior for pregnant

> women than sleeves. Prove your case.

>

> #4) You are claiming innocence that you do not deserve. You told her she

> was wrong, show her how. Cite your studies, prove your case. Stop stomping

> those feeties and prove your case once and for all. YOU are the one claiming

> banding is superior to sleeves for pregnancy, so prove your case. I'll wait.

> Gail was pretty darn clear that she was referring to personal experience.

> YOU are the one claiming fact across the board so do post your facts. Again,

> I'll wait.

>

> *I* am the one saying bands and sleeves are fine for preggos. You have made

> it more than clear that you disagree. Prove your case. No, dear. We have

> no common goal. I am the one saying bands and sleeves can both enjoy pregger

> life. YOU are the one saying ONLY bands can safely have a baby. So go

> ahead, prove your case with the latest stats and info. We are all waiting.

>

> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_

> (mailto:hopekay@...) > wrote:

>

> So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:

>

> 1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies

> instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are " new

> studies " without providing references amounts to lazy writing.

>

> 2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of overall

> effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is there

> a study you would like to cite for that, too?

>

> 3. I think you and I have very different definitions of " fine " when it comes

> to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give

> birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not ideal.

> Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development in

> an unborn human being.

>

> 4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop

> spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also without

> citing any studies, by the way) as " defensive " , even though you failed to make

> the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to let

> others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should choose

> one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal

> activists of " sleeve, only sleeve! " on this board. I am suggesting that others

> do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad, and

> when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up with

> some solid " science " you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common goal,

> no?

>

> ____________________________________

> From: Bipley <_Bipleygmail (DOT) com_ (mailto:Bipley@...) >

>

> _ @groups. com_

> (mailto: )

>

> Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM

>

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

> I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is

> talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most

> incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old info.

>

> I have to disagree with you that " everyone can eat normally with an unfilled

> band. " I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a

> bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.

>

> I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find what

> works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with

> you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many new

> studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is

> absolutely fine for pregnancy.

>

> My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and

> allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all agree

> with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their

> procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I am

> sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same experience.

> Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

>

> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_

> (mailto:hopekay@...) > wrote:

>

> Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time anyone

> asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve and

> poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band, beyond

> reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where and

> how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer, do not

> post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the

> pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not the

> sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat " normally " , like normal people normal, not

> the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck with,

> what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you serisouly

> think that makes for a sound nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At least

> admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band

> through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it precisely

> because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future. You love

> your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy for

> you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research and

> people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band that

> you personally never experienced. You have mysterious " friends " every one of

> whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who

> successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let them talk

> and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you know,

> which is the sleeve. Thank you!

>

> ____________________________________

> From: Gail <_sweetsmile1955_ (mailto:sweetsmile1955@...) >

> _ @groups. com_

> (mailto: )

> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PM

>

> Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

> I

> I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3 " and

> weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236. I

> am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a baby,

> it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good

> thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have any

> problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with the baby

> moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the lap

> band and pregnancy.

>

> Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much

> better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I now

> feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I went

> to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up

> getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of one

> half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home to my

> son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries, but

> today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So, I

> no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it wasn't

> and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I now

> eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce

> that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and can

> only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the food

> tastes much better!

>

> I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we

> will be happy to help you!

>

> Warmly,

> Gail

>

> From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@ __ (http:///) >

> Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

>

> @groups. com

>

> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

>

> Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have

> bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am

> a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you have to do

> is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a

> baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

>

> ____________________________________

> Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in

> one place. _Try it now_

> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp & icid=aolcom40vanity & ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) .

>

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December 8, 2008

Thanks for the info Bipley....something to keep in mind as I keep plugging away.

What is it with those white carbs??? They are EVIL!

---- Bipley <Bipley@...> wrote:

> Nadine...

>

> Just wanted to add something.

>

> There will always be aftercare for the band. When you get to your sweet

> spot then lose more weight you will often times lose your sweet spot.

> Another issue is that the plastic in the band is a bit porous. Over time

> (year or two) saline will evaporate from your band and you'll need small

> fills to replace it unless you can maintain your weight without being at

> your sweet spot. I wouldn't have been able to but some are.

>

> I do credit the band with getting me off bread, that was a huge challenge

> for me, white carbs. I really don't eat flour products anymore, that was my

> trigger food (still is) and if I start eating them I can't stop. The band

> did afford me the opportunity to recognize that and deal with it.

>

> I'm driving distance from Mexicali so the aftercare wasn't an issue for me,

> I just wasn't cut out for a band.

>

> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 12:08 AM, <nadine4@...> wrote:

>

> > I hope my comments regarding the orignial question will get seen.

> >

> > I wanted to give my experience regarding the band and why I do think it is

> > an option worth exploring. As mentioned, yes you do need aftercare...some

> > more than others....with a band. Hey for $400 (cost of airfare, xray & hotel

> > nt in MX) I get a nice little vacation for the midwest. But seriously, I

> > finally think I am at my sweet spot which would mean no more follow up. The

> > reason why I am advocate for the band and felt compelled to write this is a

> > " feature " not yet discussed and that is the kind of restriction it gives

> > *me*. Before having the band I was a bread/carb addict and I could not stay

> > away from them, they were my weakness. My band does not allow me to eat

> > these things very comfortably; I do not like how they make me feel. Any

> > bandster will tell you the feeling of being " stuck " is very uncomfortable

> > therefore not eating that food again is a lot easier to do with the band. I

> > also liked the idea of the band for *me* because it seemed the least

> > invasive of the procedures. The most important part of this journey is doing

> > your research and feeling confident in the decision. The one decision is a

> > no-brianer is Dr. Aceves. This man gave me my life back and I will forever

> > be grateful.

> >

> > Good Luck!

> >

> > Nadine

> > DOB 3/24/07

> > 372(346)/222/size 8

> >

> > ---- SuzanneSH@... <SuzanneSH%40aol.com> wrote:

> > > Hi Hope,

> > >

> > > I asked if we could move on to something else. I don't believe I attacked

> >

> > > you at all. This is an open form and I believe that other people will

> > agree

> > > with me that it is time to move on. I think you are so caught up in this

> > that

> > > you are unable to see what is being said.

> > >

> > > You used this wording in your last sentence " If it is, you are acting as

> > a

> > > community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its

> > > members, and it did not start with me. " I would like to quote what the

> > meaning of

> > > " opinion " is from the dictionary. Believe me we all heard your opinion

> > and

> > > that is all it was --your opinion, just like mine or Bipley's

> > >

> > > Opinion: 1 belief or statement based at least partly on one's judgement

> > > rather than upon clear or proven facts; notion, view. 2 statement of

> > judgement

> > > on a case or point of law

> > >

> > > I believe as I said before everyone has a passion and there is a time to

> > > move on. Hold on to your passion, but know that there is always more than

> > one

> > > answer to things. As you pointed out I am an old lady, and I must have

> > learned

> > > something along the way to being 63 years old. I believe they call it

> > > life's experiences. I know that Dr. Aceves highly respects Bipley

> > statements and

> > > opinions and expert knowledge because he and I had talked about some

> > things

> > > that she helped me with. He was very supportive of her. And I am sure he

> > would

> > > be of you too if you had a discussion with him about this subject.

> > >

> > > Again this isn't about who is right or wrong this is about what is best

> > for

> > > the whole of the group.

> > >

> > > Suzanne

> > >

> > > In a message dated 12/7/2008 5:18:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> > > hopekay@... <hopekay%40> writes:

> > >

> > > Dear Suzanne,

> > >

> > > No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to

> > > yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made

> > by

> > > Bipley and others disparaging and belittling me personally, which you

> > chose to

> > > ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your

> >

> > > pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their

> > level? Why are

> > > you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more

> > information,

> > > and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me?

> > You

> > > chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started

> > with

> > > " Oh my, someone is upset " and included statements like " Stop stomping

> > those

> > > feeties " . Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you

> > going to

> > > highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley

> > to

> > > stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a

> > > community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a

> > community

> > > determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members,

> > and it did not

> > > start with me.

> > >

> > > ____________________________________

> > > From: " SuzanneSHaol (DOT) " Suzanne<SuzanneSH@... <SuzanneSH%40aol.Suz>>

> > > Dr-Aceve

> > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:49:21 PM

> > > Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster<WBR

> > >

> > > Hi Hope,

> > >

> > > This isn't about who is right or wrong here. This is about support for

> > new

> > > people and people who have been on this site there a long time. I can't

> > tell

> > > you how much support I felt when I was trying to make a choice for myself

> >

> > > --and in the end it was all about me and what was right for me!!! So this

> > kind

> > > of on going LONG, LONG E-mail that you did seem to have time to do this

> > > time isn't what most of us are really looking for. I believe that 95% of

> > us are

> > > all SMART enough to check with our doctors or Dr. Aceves if we had

> > questions

> > > about being pregnant and what was best for us. Most of us do speak from

> > > experience because we aren't medical people. And if we make a mistake and

> > say

> > > something incorrect that is OK too--we are human and not perfect. If I

> > > wanted to have the weight loss surgery, then I was SMART enough to ask

> > all the

> > > questions that I felt I needed to know and what is going to be best for

> > me now

> > > and in the future.

> > >

> > > I am someone standing on the side lines and I see this as a personal

> > > attack--you are the one who opened this up claiming Gail didn't know what

> > she was

> > > talking about. Anyone can always take the information and use it or not

> > use

> > > it--that is up to the people who are reading this--give them some credit

> > > please for being here and reading this information.

> > >

> > > We teach people how to treat us. Are you doing that? So it really is time

> >

> > > to let this go, this isn't the place to do this. If feels like you are

> > trying

> > > to be a " right fighter. " It isn't so much about the content of what one

> > > says but more about always being right ALL the time. You have your

> > passion and

> > > Bipley has her passion and for me I have my passion, and I never expect

> > > everyone to feel the same way I do. It isn't about who has the most

> > current or

> > > best information all the time or who is right or wrong. As a community I

> > think

> > > most of us are ready to move on to something else. I--(now remember this

> > is

> > > my feeling and now one else) find your first sentence condescending to

> > Bipley

> > > with this statement. " Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with

> >

> > > being called on your BS. "

> > >

> > > Enough is enough

> > >

> > > Suzanne

> > >

> > > In a message dated 12/7/2008 1:39:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> > > hopekay (DOT) com writes:

> > >

> > > Oh my, Bipley, you seem to have a real problem with being called on your

> > BS.

> > > I appealed to common sense, not cited studies. But YOU insisted I have

> > old

> > > information. So, you have the new studies? Pony up. I again point out the

> >

> > > hypocrisy of you and Gail spouting misinformation unchecked while

> > insulting

> > > others. And I did Google for these new studies before ever sending the

> > message,

> > > and found nothing. But what I did find is this note from Dr. Aceves here

> > > http://www.mexicali bariatriccenter. com/Lap-band_ Advantages. asp:

> > " [P]regnancy,

> > > . . . may require that your food intake be increased or decreased by

> > > modifying the capacity of the stomach. " Pregnancy requires more food?!

> > Who would've

> > > thought! What's next, " pregnancy requires not just food, but nutrition " ?

> > > Revolutionary! So unless you found a way of adjusting the capacity of

> > your sleeved

> > > stomach, per Dr. Aceves, the band is better. I am eagerly await those new

> >

> > > studies you mentioned disproving Dr. Aceves' note. Why are you so shy

> > about

> > > posting them here? If it is valuable new information, we all deserve the

> > right

> > > to know, especially the new patients considering their options before

> > surgery.

> > > This is your chance to educate this community, I would have thought you

> > > would be jumping at it. I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to

> > learn

> > > something new.

> > >

> > > For Robyn, you respond to a request to stop posting misinformation and

> > > provide references to the new studies by calling me names? Do not lower

> > yourself

> > > to this level. I have not made one thing personal, but others have,

> > including

> > > you. Shame.

> > >

> > > For Gail, I love and admire your enthusiasm, and I sincerely hope you

> > will

> > > keep posting about your experience with the sleeve. All I ask of you is

> > to

> > > stop posting erroneus information that you will admit in the very next

> > line you

> > > know nothing about, or speculate about experience with the band you

> > didn't

> > > have. If I were to start posting about people I know whose sleeves leak,

> > you

> > > and Bipley would be all over me like white on rice, saying the exact same

> > thing

> > > - individual experiences are not indicative of the overall trend. I ask

> > > you, respectfully, to stop doing the same when it comes to the band.

> > Notice I

> > > did not make it about my surgery, or my band, or my experience. And to

> > your

> > > question as to why don't I post about my experience as a counter to

> > yours,

> > > unlike you, I do not have the luxury of typing out a lengthy response to

> > the

> > > question that repeats itself at least once a week. This board has a

> > wealth of

> > > knowledge, for example, the discussion we had on how different " full "

> > feels with

> > > the band and sleeve was very informational, in particular, Bipley's

> > > contribution to it because she had both. That kind of first hand

> > experience is

> > > invaluable and should be preserved in some manner, like an FAQ, because I

> > would

> > > imagine people start suffering from response fatigue answering the same

> > questions

> > > over and over again. I post when something is blatantly wrong or out of

> > the

> > > ordinary, like Ernesto being called a crazy driver, or sleeve suddenly

> > > becoming better than the band for pregnancy, or if someone needs

> > enoucragement and

> > > my experience is somehow relevant. I am glad you find time to contribute

> > here

> > > on a more regular basis, but it's a shame that when you share your

> > positive

> > > experience with the sleeve you chose to disparage the band every time and

> > we

> > > simply do not have enough vocal bandsters here to provide a counter view

> > > point. Perhaps that's because when someone does counter, Bipley seems to

> > turn it

> > > into a personal attack?

> > >

> > > ____________________________________

> > > From: Bipley <Bipleygmail (DOT) com>

> > > @groups. com

> > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:48:18 AM

> > > Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Oh my, someone is upset.

> > >

> > > #1) I'd suggest talking to your surgeon. That is still in fashion, right?

> >

> > > After *I* talked to him I did a simple Google search. It's easy, honest.

> > > I'd research cirangle but what do I know, right?

> > >

> > > #2) Ohhhhh no you don't! You are the one that inferred the few negative

> > > band experiences. You prove your own damn case.

> > >

> > > #3) You are making the comparison that 3rd world countries produce the

> > same

> > > children as sleeved women. You prove your own case, then I'll produce my

> > own

> > > studies crushing the heck out of yours. Common sense seems to be up for

> > > debate here. You made the original claims that banding is superior for

> > pregnant

> > > women than sleeves. Prove your case.

> > >

> > > #4) You are claiming innocence that you do not deserve. You told her she

> > > was wrong, show her how. Cite your studies, prove your case. Stop

> > stomping

> > > those feeties and prove your case once and for all. YOU are the one

> > claiming

> > > banding is superior to sleeves for pregnancy, so prove your case. I'll

> > wait.

> > > Gail was pretty darn clear that she was referring to personal experience.

> >

> > > YOU are the one claiming fact across the board so do post your facts.

> > Again,

> > > I'll wait.

> > >

> > > *I* am the one saying bands and sleeves are fine for preggos. You have

> > made

> > > it more than clear that you disagree. Prove your case. No, dear. We have

> > > no common goal. I am the one saying bands and sleeves can both enjoy

> > pregger

> > > life. YOU are the one saying ONLY bands can safely have a baby. So go

> > > ahead, prove your case with the latest stats and info. We are all

> > waiting.

> > >

> > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:07 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_

> > > (mailto:hopekay@... <hopekay%40>) > wrote:

> > >

> > > So many issues, where do I begin... Let's tackle these in order:

> > >

> > > 1. Why don't you provide the links to this ground breaking new studies

> > > instead of just repeating that I have old info? Saying that there are

> > " new

> > > studies " without providing references amounts to lazy writing.

> > >

> > > 2. Your individual bad experience with the band is not indicative of

> > overall

> > > effect of the unfilled band, do not try and pretend that it is. Or is

> > there

> > > a study you would like to cite for that, too?

> > >

> > > 3. I think you and I have very different definitions of " fine " when it

> > comes

> > > to pregnancy. After all, malnourished women in third world countries give

> >

> > > birth every day. Common sense would dictate that starvation diet is not

> > ideal.

> > > Great for losing weight, not so much for nourishing a brain development

> > in

> > > an unborn human being.

> > >

> > > 4. I find it very curious that you see my position of asking Gail to stop

> >

> > > spouting things she openly admitted to knowing nothing about (also

> > without

> > > citing any studies, by the way) as " defensive " , even though you failed to

> > make

> > > the same comment to her. Curiously, that is all I have asked for -- to

> > let

> > > others have and share their experience. I am not saying one person should

> > choose

> > > one procedure or the other, whereas you and Gail have been the most vocal

> >

> > > activists of " sleeve, only sleeve! " on this board. I am suggesting that

> > others

> > > do their research, allow people to share their experiences, good and bad,

> > and

> > > when saying something so outrageously against common sense, back it up

> > with

> > > some solid " science " you insist exists. Sounds like we have a common

> > goal,

> > > no?

> > >

> > > ____________________________________

> > > From: Bipley <_Bipleygmail (DOT) com_

(mailto:Bipley@...<Bipley%40gmail.com>)

> > >

> > > _ @groups. com_

> > >

(mailto: <%40groups.co\

m>)

> >

> > >

> > > Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:51:58 PM

> > >

> > > Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

> > >

> > > I know what I am talking about and I believe Dr. Aceves knows what he is

> > > talking about. The band and sleeve are fine for pregnancy. You are most

> > > incorrect that the band is better for pregnancy, again... you have old

> > info.

> > >

> > > I have to disagree with you that " everyone can eat normally with an

> > unfilled

> > > band. " I had an unfilled band and was on liquids for 4 months. We have a

> > > bit more control over food consumption with a sleeve.

> > >

> > > I realize you likely love your band, good for you! We all need to find

> > what

> > > works for us. But science, doctors, and studies do indeed disagree with

> > > you. As explained before, your information is old. This past summer many

> > new

> > > studies came out and we do indeed have research now. The sleeve is

> > > absolutely fine for pregnancy.

> > >

> > > My suggestion would be not to be so defensive about your surgery type and

> >

> > > allow others their choices. If Dr. Aceves, medicine, and science all

> > agree

> > > with one another, they might have a clue here. Perhaps allow others their

> >

> > > procedure type and allow medicine and science to continue their work. I

> > am

> > > sincerely thrilled that you love your band. Not everyone has the same

> > experience.

> > > Allow others their experiences, it's the best way to go.

> > >

> > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:29 PM, NW <_hopekay (DOT) com_

> > > (mailto:hopekay@... <hopekay%40>) > wrote:

> > >

> > > Come on, Gail, we all know you love your sleeve, because every time

> > anyone

> > > asks a question on band vs. sleeve, you post a lengthy ode to the sleeve

> > and

> > > poo-poo the lap band. But you are way too biased against the lap band,

> > beyond

> > > reason. Putting pressure on the stomach during pregnancy? Really? Where

> > and

> > > how did you come up with that one, Gail? If you do not know the answer,

> > do not

> > > post errenous or misleading information, please. The bottom line on the

> > > pregnancy after weight loss surgery is that the lap band is better, not

> > the

> > > sleeve. You can unfill the band and eat " normally " , like normal people

> > normal, not

> > > the bottomless pit that used to be normal. The sleeve, you are stuck

> > with,

> > > what did you describe? 3/4 of a the bean patty for a meal? Do you

> > serisouly

> > > think that makes for a sound nutritional strategy during pregnancy? At

> > least

> > > admit the limitations of the sleeve when asked, and do not drag the band

> > > through the mud underservingly. Some of us love the band and chose it

> > precisely

> > > because of the possibility or desire to become pregnant in the future.

> > You love

> > > your sleeve, you are happy with your decision, great, we are all happy

> > for

> > > you as well. Now let others make their decision based on sound research

> > and

> > > people with first hand experience, not your opinions about the lap band

> > that

> > > you personally never experienced. You have mysterious " friends " every one

> > of

> > > whom had issues with the band, and yet this board is full of people who

> > > successfully have lost weight with the band, with very few problems. Let

> > them talk

> > > and share their opinions of their bands, please. You stick to what you

> > know,

> > > which is the sleeve. Thank you!

> > >

> > > ____________________________________

> > > From: Gail <_sweetsmile1955_

(mailto:sweetsmile1955@...<sweetsmile1955%40>)

> > >

> > > _ @groups. com_

> > >

(mailto: <%40groups.co\

m>)

> >

> > > Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:26:41 PM

> > >

> > > Subject: Re: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

> > >

> > > I

> > > I am a teacher also and had a sleeve done on June 27th 2008. I am 5'3 "

> > and

> > > weigheed 236 and probably was more...but at the time of surgery was 236.

> > I

> > > am not down to probably under 180 and very happy! Especially after a

> > baby,

> > > it is so hard to lose the weight and get the body back in shape. The good

> >

> > > thing about the sleeve is that you can still have children and not have

> > any

> > > problem. With the lap band, I am sure there would be more pressure with

> > the baby

> > > moving and putting pressure on the stomach...so I don't know about the

> > lap

> > > band and pregnancy.

> > >

> > > Having the sleeve done was the best thing I have ever had! I feel so much

> >

> > > better and know that it was one thing that has helped to save my life. I

> > now

> > > feel so good and have gotten the control back in my life with food! I

> > went

> > > to Chili's today and wanted to have one of my favorite salads. I ended up

> >

> > > getting a bean burger with swiss and mushrooms and could only eat 3/4 of

> > one

> > > half of the patti, no bun, and a few french fries. I took the rest home

> > to my

> > > son and was really grossed out by the fries. I used to like their fries,

> > but

> > > today all I could smell was a gross grease smell that turned me off. So,

> > I

> > > no longer want that anymore..... I thought it would be good, but it

> > wasn't

> > > and I didn't really enjoy it very much. I prefer the simpler foods that I

> > now

> > > eat. I like the bags of fresh veges with cheese sauce or a butter sauce

> > > that you can steam in the microwave. I don't eat much of the sauce and

> > can

> > > only eat about 1/4 of the bag. So, I get fiber and low calories and the

> > food

> > > tastes much better!

> > >

> > > I wish you luck with your decision and please ask us any questions and we

> >

> > > will be happy to help you!

> > >

> > > Warmly,

> > > Gail

> > >

> > > From: kenysmaddox <kenysmaddox@ __ (http:///) >

> > > Subject: [Dr-Aceves-bandster s] Trying to see which way to go

> > >

> > > @groups. com

> > >

> > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:50 PM

> > >

> > > Hi am 29 years old, 5 foot 2 and 241 lbs. I really want to have

> > > bariatric surgery, but my primary health insurance won't cover it. I am

> > > a teacher and one of my kids said to me, " Ms. Maddox all you have to do

> > > is exercise, to get a new body " , I wanted to cry. Also, I just had a

> > > baby on 10/01/08 and I am fed up with being fat. What do I do?

> > >

> > > ____________________________________

> > > Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in

> >

> > > one place. _Try it now_

> > > (

> >

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> > .

> > >

> > > _Messages in this topic _

> > > (

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December 8, 2008

WOW.....A sight that is open for support sure did get awful dark and unwelcoming for those outsiders looking in. Maybe IT should be laid to rest so those that are considering changing their lives can feel the same warmth I felt when I came to this site. Without the support of those on this site I might not have gone thru with my decision......Please dont put those looking for support off by draging this on and on. Lets get back to the support we are all here for.

sleeve 3/10/08

lost 130lbs so far......

Marie Kindness is the language the blind can see and the deaf can hear. - Mark Twain

Dear Suzanne, No, I won't let it go. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to yours. I will point out though, that many, many statements have been made by Bipley and others disparaging and belittling me personally, which you chose to ignore before attacking me and questioning my motivations. I've seen your pictures, you are a lovely older lady, why are you sinking to their level? Why are you choosing to attack me, and urge me to stop asking for more information, and not call on Bipley for her scathing remarks repeatedly insulting me? You chose to highlight my sentence in reply to Bipley's email which started with "Oh my, someone is upset" and included statements like "Stop stomping those

feeties". Where is your moral outrage about those sentences? Are you going to highlight, bold, and underline them, too? Where is your plea for Bipley to stop being condescending to others? You call this a support group, a community? I don't think so, Suzanne. If it is, you are acting as a community determined not to allow differing opinions or respect for its members, and it did not start with me.

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