Re: Boards...

December 29, 2007

Thanks, Funny you should use the term " Principle. " If the BRN had any

principles, they would at the very least begin to realize that there is a

problem with this test. I know it is impossible at this time to hold them

accountable, but somewhere on this website recently there was talk of a new

precedent allowing public entities to be held accountable for gross negligence

that resulted in damage. Maybe someday, honestly I would just settle for the

test to be discontinued. I am so scared to restart testing in the next few

weeks, it is affecting every aspect of my life. All I can do is stay strong in

my recovery, and hope.

--------- insanity> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000> > Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your specimens or > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit to this flawed > test without some safety features in place is suicide and with your > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all love you. When you > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a victim,however,we need an > advocate. Dr. Dan> > > > From: robin murray <remurraymd >Ethylglucuronide Subject: Re: insanityDate: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:20:39 +0000 lorie do what you need to do to protect your ticket and your recovery.forgive them they truly do not know and apparently do not care what they do or who they hurt.hang tough here if i can help.to me being forced into a recovery system by the board for false positive EtG without relapse is dishonest only on their part not yours..i helped several doctors one dentist from montana and one from arizona this happened to.both did their stint hung tough accepted it and still have their tickets so hang tough.. regards,rmslizrncomcast (DOT) net wrote: I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds, then I am sure she will once again be strong. Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea, simply because it forces you to "admit" to a problem

you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is "Rigorous Honesty." That having been said, I cannot and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't say what I will do if and when I am faced with the choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route, but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is all we could come up with.-------------- Original message ----------------------From: "danramo" <danramoaol>> Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your specimens or

> taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit to this flawed > test without some safety features in place is suicide and with your > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all love you. When you > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a victim,however,we need an > advocate. Dr. Dan> > From: "danramo" <danramoaol>Ethylglucuronide Subject: insanityDate: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000 Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your specimens or taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit to this flawed test without some safety features in place is suicide and with your fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all love you. When you

are cut we all bleed. We do not need a victim,however,we need an advocate. Dr. Dan

December 30, 2007

I don't know what the answer is either. If you

remember my story I was in ca diversion for 4 months

and had 2 months clean and from then on I had over 7

positive etg. First I had a trip taken away for my

wedding anniversary, then I was asked to go to out

patient rehab , which I did, because I was so afraid

of diversion at the time I did what they asked. I kept

having positives, they wanted me to go to 30 day

residential. I had to drop ut due to finances. My

insurance didn't cover any of my rehabs. I initially

went to a 30 day inpatient at hoag in ca and it cost

30,000 And I payed 20,000 of it I payed for the out

patient 5,000, all on credit cards. I tried every

thing I I kept testing positive. I dropped out of

diversion nov 2006 and I haven't heard from the

consumer affairs yet, nurses before me would be

contacted after they dropped out with in 7 to 12

months, they would do an official report of the

incident send it to ca brn then it would take approx 6

months to 1 year for the brn to contact you to offer

probation. In the past 2 years since etg the wait to

hear from the consumer affairs has increased to up to

16months, then 1- 2 years to hear from brn. Bottom

line it can take up to 3 -4 years to enter probation

after dropping out of diversion. At first I was upset

about the wait, but now I would rather wait as long as

possible. Liz, I thought the etg thing would be gone

before I entered in to probation, but now I wonder, it

makes me think I need to look for another job. Lorie I

am so sorry for all the roadblocks that have been set

in your way, and you still keep trying. At first I

thought I was unlucky to have encountered all of these

etg's in the start of my diversion, but I can't

imagine almost finishing diversion and then a positive

could send me back to the start. It is like the came

of life, you get the un lucky back to jail card,

except this isn't a game. Any way I just thought I

waould share with every one how impacted the consumer

affairs and brn have become since etg has entered the

testing process.

--- mslizrn@... wrote:

> Thanks, Funny you should use the term " Principle. "

> If the BRN had any principles, they would at the

> very least begin to realize that there is a problem

> with this test. I know it is impossible at this time

> to hold them accountable, but somewhere on this

> website recently there was talk of a new precedent

> allowing public entities to be held accountable for

> gross negligence that resulted in damage. Maybe

> someday, honestly I would just settle for the test

> to be discontinued. I am so scared to restart

> testing in the next few weeks, it is affecting every

> aspect of my life. All I can do is stay strong in my

> recovery, and hope.

> --------- insanity

Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

Doing the same thing and expecting a different

result is the definition

of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

specimens or

taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

to this flawed

test without some safety features in place is suicide

and with your

fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

love you. When you

are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

victim,however,we need an

advocate. Dr. Dan

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

December 31, 2007

If drinking is denied and there are other significant indicators of possible relapse (ie poor attendance at group meetings, reports of AOB, etc) then refer for specialized evaluation (can be performed initially as an outpatient evaluation to determine if further intensive evaluation is needed . you are right julie anything missed calls missed meetings not taking meds poor reports from evaluators anything is enough get you labeled as non compliant in "relapse mode" if relapse cannot be proven.so if one is pulling false positves compliance and records are most important. sounds like you did the right thing for you...regards,r Hartman <jhartman32001@...> wrote: I don't know what the answer is either. If youremember my story I was in ca diversion for 4 monthsand had 2 months clean and from then on I had over 7positive etg. First I had a trip taken away for mywedding anniversary, then I was asked to go to outpatient rehab , which I did, because I was so afraidof diversion at the time I did what they asked. I kepthaving positives, they wanted me to go to 30 dayresidential. I had to drop ut due to finances. Myinsurance didn't cover any of my rehabs. I initiallywent to a 30 day inpatient at hoag in ca and it cost30,000

And I payed 20,000 of it I payed for the outpatient 5,000, all on credit cards. I tried everything I I kept testing positive. I dropped out ofdiversion nov 2006 and I haven't heard from theconsumer affairs yet, nurses before me would becontacted after they dropped out with in 7 to 12months, they would do an official report of theincident send it to ca brn then it would take approx 6months to 1 year for the brn to contact you to offerprobation. In the past 2 years since etg the wait tohear from the consumer affairs has increased to up to16months, then 1- 2 years to hear from brn. Bottomline it can take up to 3 -4 years to enter probationafter dropping out of diversion. At first I was upsetabout the wait, but now I would rather wait as long aspossible. Liz, I thought the etg thing would be gonebefore I entered in to probation, but now I wonder, itmakes me think I need to look for another job. Lorie Iam

so sorry for all the roadblocks that have been setin your way, and you still keep trying. At first Ithought I was unlucky to have encountered all of theseetg's in the start of my diversion, but I can'timagine almost finishing diversion and then a positivecould send me back to the start. It is like the cameof life, you get the un lucky back to jail card,except this isn't a game. Any way I just thought Iwaould share with every one how impacted the consumeraffairs and brn have become since etg has entered thetesting process.--- mslizrncomcast (DOT) net wrote:> Thanks, Funny you should use the term "Principle."> If the BRN had any principles, they would at the> very least begin to realize that there is a problem> with this test. I know it is impossible at this time> to hold them accountable, but somewhere on this> website recently

there was talk of a new precedent> allowing public entities to be held accountable for> gross negligence that resulted in damage. Maybe> someday, honestly I would just settle for the test> to be discontinued. I am so scared to restart> testing in the next few weeks, it is affecting every> aspect of my life. All I can do is stay strong in my> recovery, and hope.> --------- insanity> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000> > Doing the same thing and expecting a differentresult is the definition > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets onyour specimens or > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submitto this flawed > test without some safety features in place issuicide and with your > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We alllove you. When you > are cut we all bleed. We do not need avictim,however,we need an > advocate. Dr. Dan> > > > From: robin murray <remurraymd >Ethylglucuronide Subject: Re:

insanityDate: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:20:39 +0000lorie do what you need to do to protect yourticket and your recovery.forgive them they trulydo not know and apparently do not care what they door who they hurt.hang tough here if i can help.to mebeing forced into a recovery system by the board forfalse positive EtG without relapse is dishonest onlyon their part not yours..i helped several doctors onedentist from montana and one from arizona thishappened to.both did their stint hung tough acceptedit and still have their tickets so hang tough.. regards,rmslizrncomcast (DOT) net wrote:I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needssome time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,then I am sure she will once again be strong.Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,simply because it forces you to "admit" to a problemyou

don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is"Rigorous Honesty." That having been said, I cannotand will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can'tsay what I will do if and when I am faced with thechoice of that or loosing my license. I did choose toleave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,but I had hopes that before I was faced with probationthe EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here weare, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submitto EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD hasleft a standing order for a blood ETOH each time Itest. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it isall we could come up with.-------------- Original message ----------------------From: "danramo" <danramoaol>> Doing the same thing and expecting a differentresult is the definition > of insanity. You could have

paired etg and ets onyour specimens or > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submitto this flawed > test without some safety features in place issuicide and with your > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We alllove you. When you > are cut we all bleed. We do not need avictim,however,we need an > advocate. Dr. Dan> > From: "danramo" <danramoaol>Ethylglucuronide Subject: insanityDate: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000Doing the same thing and expecting a differentresult is the definition of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on yourspecimens or taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submitto this flawed test without some safety features in place is

suicideand with your fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We alllove you. When you are cut we all bleed. We do not need avictim,however,we need an advocate. Dr. Dan__________________________________________________________Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs

December 31, 2007

I couldn't agree more Robin. I had 100% compliance no missed calls, reports,

meetings. That at least made the DEC think twice and when they met with me, they

were very interested in getting info, honestly perplexed I think. Unfortunately

they had only the unbending BRN to answer to and in the end I honestly think at

least a couple of them were almost as frustrated as I was. We can only achieve

our goal by convincing one person at a time, and the only was to convince is to

remain above reproach.

--------- insanity> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000> > Doing the same thing and expecting a differentresult is the definition > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets onyour specimens or > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submitto this flawed > test without some safety features in place issuicide and with your > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We alllove you. When you > are cut we all bleed. We do not need avictim,however,we need an > advocate. Dr. Dan> > > > From: robin murray <remurraymd >Ethylglucuronide Subject: Re:

insanityDate: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:20:39 +0000lorie do what you need to do to protect yourticket and your recovery.forgive them they trulydo not know and apparently do not care what they door who they hurt.hang tough here if i can help.to mebeing forced into a recovery system by the board forfalse positive EtG without relapse is dishonest onlyon their part not yours..i helped several doctors onedentist from montana and one from arizona thishappened to.both did their stint hung tough acceptedit and still have their tickets so hang tough.. regards,rmslizrncomcast (DOT) net wrote:I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needssome time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,then I am sure she will once again be strong.Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,simply because it forces you to "admit" to a problemyou

don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is"Rigorous Honesty." That having been said, I cannotand will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can'tsay what I will do if and when I am faced with thechoice of that or loosing my license. I did choose toleave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,but I had hopes that before I was faced with probationthe EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here weare, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submitto EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD hasleft a standing order for a blood ETOH each time Itest. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it isall we could come up with.-------------- Original message ----------------------From: "danramo" <danramoaol>> Doing the same thing and expecting a differentresult is the definition > of insanity. You could have

paired etg and ets onyour specimens or > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submitto this flawed > test without some safety features in place issuicide and with your > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We alllove you. When you > are cut we all bleed. We do not need avictim,however,we need an > advocate. Dr. Dan> > From: "danramo" <danramoaol>Ethylglucuronide Subject: insanityDate: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000Doing the same thing and expecting a differentresult is the definition of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on yourspecimens or taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submitto this flawed test without some safety features in place is

suicideand with your fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We alllove you. When you are cut we all bleed. We do not need avictim,however,we need an advocate. Dr. Dan__________________________________________________________Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs

January 2, 2008

Boy, I feel your pain . I did 3 years in Diversion, was getting

ready to ask for transition when I started having positives. I

dropped out in August 2005; I know an investigation has been done

(May of 2006) but have heard nothing yet--now it's 2008. Talk about

antsy!! It was my logic also that we would have discredited this

test before I ever got called into the AG, but now it is anyone's

guess. Besides, I heard from someone--maybe even in this group, I

don't remember--who said that when she finally was called to talk to

the Attorney Generals' office, they would hear NOTHING about ETG--

said it was irrelevant, and they were proceeding on the original

complaint as though she had never been in Diversion at all. Scary!!

Well, one foot in front of the other, and let's just keep doing the

next right thing. *FINGERS CROSSED**

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Keep The Faith~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eva

> I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs

> some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,

> then I am sure she will once again be strong.

> Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,

> simply because it forces you to " admit " to a problem

> you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is

> " Rigorous Honesty. " That having been said, I cannot

> and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't

> say what I will do if and when I am faced with the

> choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to

> leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,

> but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation

> the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we

> are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit

> to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has

> left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I

> test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is

> all we could come up with.

> --------- insanity

> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

>

> Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> result is the definition

> of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> specimens or

> taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> to this flawed

> test without some safety features in place is suicide

> and with your

> fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> love you. When you

> are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> victim,however,we need an

> advocate. Dr. Dan

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

January 2, 2008

The problem with THAT, though is that GOOD reports don't count for

squat!! I had all my meetings, therapists appts, never missed work or

was late, had letters from my therapists, etc---they didn't give a

shit. The ETG was positive, therefore I drank whether I'll admit it

or not--that's their theory. There was not ONE SHRED of corroborating

clinical to support it. I know, I'm not kibbitzing at you, but when I

see statements like the one below that are SO self-serving and

patently false, it makes my blood boil!!!

~~~~~~~~Keeping the $#@^% Faith~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eva

> I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs

> some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,

> then I am sure she will once again be strong.

> Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,

> simply because it forces you to " admit " to a problem

> you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is

> " Rigorous Honesty. " That having been said, I cannot

> and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't

> say what I will do if and when I am faced with the

> choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to

> leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,

> but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation

> the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we

> are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit

> to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has

> left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I

> test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is

> all we could come up with.

> --------- insanity

> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

>

> Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> result is the definition

> of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> specimens or

> taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> to this flawed

> test without some safety features in place is suicide

> and with your

> fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> love you. When you

> are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> victim,however,we need an

> advocate. Dr. Dan

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

January 2, 2008

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH KIDDIES, ITS TIME FOR A POP QUIZ.

mslizrn said that to consider behaviors they would have to treat you

as individuals and stop lumping you all together as

addicts/liars/cheaters and thieves, Oh My! (Or if you prefer, Lions

and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!) As WE ALL KNOW, that shit ain't gonna

happen. Why?, you ask. This is multiple choice, lets see who

correctly answer:

Why is everyone who has ever had an addiction to drugs or alcohol and

everyone who has ever been caught using recreational drugs lumped

together as liars, cheaters and thieves, Oh My!? Whose only

salvation is by the grace of a doorknob?

A. Your Inquisitors are fat, ugly, farm animal fornicating fat asses

who are too lazy to do any real work. They are too busy scratching

their ass then smelling their finger to give your sorry ass a break.

B. The trickment center " professionals " (cough, snort, laugh, fart,

scratch, puke) are uneducated, too stooooooooooopid to read any real

literature on addiction other than the Beeeeeeeeg Book (the beeeeeg

book is written at their reading level whereas a scientific journal

is well over their gnarly ass heads), lying, cheatin, farm animal

fornicating ugly fat asses.

c. The freaks, geeks and retards in the rewms are a bunch of

hypocrite fat ass farm animal fornicating losers who couldn't grab

their own ass with both hands, let alone smell their finger

afterward. They profess to be " overachievers " . Take a look around

the reeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwmmmmmmmm the next time you have to attend the

nocturnal circlejerk then you tell me, do any of them appear to be

over achievers? HARRRRRRRRRRDEEEEEEEEEEEHARRRRRRRRRR.

In an endless parade they march, one by one up to the podium and tell

you how you can be just like them if only you " work the program "

(Whatever the hell " work the program means " ).

GEEZUS KATY CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't that scare ANYONE BUT ME that

you fine people will end up like them???????????????????????????/

To emulate the " winners " in the rewms would be a big step down for

ya'll.

D. ALL OF THE ABOVE (hint, hint, hint, hint)

Oh Roooooooooooooobbbbbbbbbbbinnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, don't tell every damn

thing you know about my basement. I understand the creature I keep

down there looks like a prehistoric winged reptile. While the

creature is a carnivore, I am sad to say it is not a pterodactyl.

Can you guess what the creature in my basement is??????? Smarty

does ride him, (read....farm animal fornicator). Can you

guess? Notice anyone missing lately? Remember that little retard

freak social worker who came to this site and acted like his shit

didn't stink? He had a web site about " secret drinking " . As someone

here says, things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

And WHERE IN THE HELL are my 12-stepping toddlers you promised

me?????????

In Ethylglucuronide , mslizrn@... wrote:

>

> I agree. I too had 100% compliance, never missed a call, report,

meeting. To consider behaviors, they would have to treat us

individually, which would require an ef fort they are simply not

willing to make. It is easier to lump us all into a big group of

addicts/liars, and rely on a test to tell them what they need to

know. My case manager at Maximus often talked to me for several

minutes before she realized she had called the wrong person!! How on

earth, could she know how well my recovery was going, she didn't even

know who the hell I was! I don't say this to justify what they do,

it is wrong, and must be changed, but for now it is our awful

reality.

> --------- insanity

> > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

> > >

> > > Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> > > result is the definition

> > > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> > > specimens or

> > > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> > > to this flawed

> > > test without some safety features in place is suicide

> > > and with your

> > > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> > > love you. When you

> > > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> > > victim,however,we need an

> > > advocate. Dr. Dan

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________________

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > http://www./r/hs

> > >

> >

>

January 3, 2008

Oh Gosh, it was you? I'm sorry to quote your own story back at you!

Liz, please don't stress yourself out that much. I don't think there

are very many of us like Lorie--she WILL pop positive sometimes no

matter what she does or doesn't do (at least that's what I see). I

think the chances are that MOST of us will be okay if we avoid

Tylenol and eat very very carefully. That's what I plan to do. Just

set it in your mind that you are a monk for the next -what-3 years?

and tell yourself that you'll be okay. the thing is, Liz, even if

tbhe WORST happenned and you ( or me) were kicked out of nursing

altogether--which isn't likely--in time you WOULD find a different

career and you WILL be ok. That's what I've learned in my recovery.

Gee, I didn't mean to get all philosophical on ya, must have caught

me in a gentle mood!

Chin up Liz, I truly do believe that you (and I) will be ok. I

believe Lorie will too, but she is having the hardest time I can

imagine. I think eventually she'll win a huge cash settlement and

live like a queen

~~~~~~~~~~~Keep the Faith~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eva

> > > I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs

> > > some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,

> > > then I am sure she will once again be strong.

> > > Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,

> > > simply because it forces you to " admit " to a problem

> > > you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is

> > > " Rigorous Honesty. " That having been said, I cannot

> > > and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't

> > > say what I will do if and when I am faced with the

> > > choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to

> > > leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,

> > > but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation

> > > the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we

> > > are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit

> > > to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has

> > > left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I

> > > test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is

> > > all we could come up with.

> > > --------- insanity

> > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

> > >

> > > Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> > > result is the definition

> > > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> > > specimens or

> > > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> > > to this flawed

> > > test without some safety features in place is suicide

> > > and with your

> > > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> > > love you. When you

> > > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> > > victim,however,we need an

> > > advocate. Dr. Dan

> > >

> >

______________________________________________________________________

> > ______________

> > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > http://www./r/hs

> > >

> >

>

January 3, 2008

Madison..you really know how to light up a room.

> > > > I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs

> > > > some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,

> > > > then I am sure she will once again be strong.

> > > > Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,

> > > > simply because it forces you to " admit " to a problem

> > > > you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is

> > > > " Rigorous Honesty. " That having been said, I cannot

> > > > and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't

> > > > say what I will do if and when I am faced with the

> > > > choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to

> > > > leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,

> > > > but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation

> > > > the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we

> > > > are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit

> > > > to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has

> > > > left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I

> > > > test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is

> > > > all we could come up with.

> > > > --------- insanity

> > > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

> > > >

> > > > Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> > > > result is the definition

> > > > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> > > > specimens or

> > > > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> > > > to this flawed

> > > > test without some safety features in place is suicide

> > > > and with your

> > > > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> > > > love you. When you

> > > > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> > > > victim,however,we need an

> > > > advocate. Dr. Dan

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________________

> > > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > > http://www./r/hs

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

January 4, 2008

Ya just never know, Liz...they may have stock in Eli Lily!! It pays

to be suspicious.

Robin and Lorie have both taught me a LOT about the ETG pathway-not

that I retain it--so I believe there is surely a connection between

taking tylenol and positive ETG's. I'm one of those former opiate

addicts, so naturally I have abused my liver in the process. It is so

logical when they explain it!! In fact, I would be willing to bet

that I wouldn't have had positives , even eating the food I ate, if I

hadn't been taking tylenol regularly--like, daily. Umm..let's say I'd

be willing to BET, but when it comes time to be monitored again, I

won't actually be foolish enough to TRY it! ))

~~~~~~~~~~Keep The Faith~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eva

> > > > > I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs

> > > > > some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,

> > > > > then I am sure she will once again be strong.

> > > > > Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,

> > > > > simply because it forces you to " admit " to a problem

> > > > > you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is

> > > > > " Rigorous Honesty. " That having been said, I cannot

> > > > > and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't

> > > > > say what I will do if and when I am faced with the

> > > > > choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to

> > > > > leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,

> > > > > but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation

> > > > > the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we

> > > > > are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit

> > > > > to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has

> > > > > left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I

> > > > > test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is

> > > > > all we could come up with.

> > > > > --------- insanity

> > > > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

> > > > >

> > > > > Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> > > > > result is the definition

> > > > > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> > > > > specimens or

> > > > > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> > > > > to this flawed

> > > > > test without some safety features in place is suicide

> > > > > and with your

> > > > > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> > > > > love you. When you

> > > > > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> > > > > victim,however,we need an

> > > > > advocate. Dr. Dan

> > > > >

> > > >

> >

______________________________________________________________________

> > > > ______________

> > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > > > http://www./r/hs

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

January 5, 2008

I am so sorry for Lorie. She is strong, but if I had to go back to

the treatment center...after spending 45 days in it, then going to a

women's recovery home for a year, I think I would take my license and

shove it into Maximus's .... I have been sober since 1997. I had a

+ ETG last March, 1st positive I have ever had in 10 years. I cried

and cried. My case manager suspended me for a week, and since then I

have had to write(like a schoolgirl)every month how each step affects

my everyday life. I laughed though, and thought, why in the hell

would I drink?? I work in a pharmacy and have access to any drug at

anytime!! I couldn't believe she accused me of drinking. Did any of

these uneducated idiots talk to our sponsors, our peers, our

therapist before blindly accusing us??? I really believe this etg

issue is an individual inherent metabolic problem. As far as asking

for anyother test to be performed, it, like in Lorie's contract is

prohibited. I cannot even ask my double sample be run by another

lab, it would be considere " suspicious, and relapse " behavior.

I participated in Oregon's Pharmacist Recovery Network for 3 years,

and they(the participants)don't have any problems with ETG up there.

What is with California. I debated about coming back here, to clear

my license after being revoked for a fee issue, but, now I question

it. My life has been sucked out of me. Everytime I go to the

mailbox, I'm afraid of what I will find.

No one in AA really understands the torture we endure. It's hard, I

live in the middle of no where, and my closest peer is over 50 miles

away.

I am paranoid though, about most everything. My family thinks I'm

lying about what diversion makes us do. I have become a shell of the

happy go-lucky, fun woman I used to be. I don't smile anymore, and

most of the time I don't care about anything. That's what my

experience with Maximus has done to me. I don't trust anyone

anymore. It's sad.

> > > > > > I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs

> > > > > > some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,

> > > > > > then I am sure she will once again be strong.

> > > > > > Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,

> > > > > > simply because it forces you to " admit " to a problem

> > > > > > you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is

> > > > > > " Rigorous Honesty. " That having been said, I cannot

> > > > > > and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't

> > > > > > say what I will do if and when I am faced with the

> > > > > > choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to

> > > > > > leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,

> > > > > > but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation

> > > > > > the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we

> > > > > > are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit

> > > > > > to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has

> > > > > > left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I

> > > > > > test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is

> > > > > > all we could come up with.

> > > > > > --------- insanity

> > > > > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> > > > > > result is the definition

> > > > > > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> > > > > > specimens or

> > > > > > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> > > > > > to this flawed

> > > > > > test without some safety features in place is suicide

> > > > > > and with your

> > > > > > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> > > > > > love you. When you

> > > > > > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> > > > > > victim,however,we need an

> > > > > > advocate. Dr. Dan

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> __________________________________________________________

> > > > > ______________

> > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > > > > http://www./r/hs

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

January 5, 2008

--- Tracey,

The next time your farm animal fo......., oh wait a minute. The next

time your case manager requires you to write out how you work the

steps remind him/her that 6 of those lil bastards require prayer.

Does this mean he/she is asking you about how you pray?

Then remind him/her of the Ninth Circut Court ruling (which covers

Kalifornia) that paved the way for probation officers to be sued for

violating the civil rights of their parolees. In particular by

forcing them into AA as a condition of their release. The court

basically said that it was so clearly established that forced

participation in AA violates one religious freedom that the parole

office should have known better and therefore is not immune to being

sued.

Now, parole officers are employed by the GOVERNMENT. STATE boards

are a governmet entity. Employees of the STATE board are government

employees. Soooooooooooooooooooo, that means that these lil case

managers would not be immune either. I wonder if the dolts even

know that?

http://tinylink.co.za/0b6800

In Ethylglucuronide , " Tracey "

<drtracey1982@...> wrote:

>

> I am so sorry for Lorie. She is strong, but if I had to go back to

> the treatment center...after spending 45 days in it, then going to

a

> women's recovery home for a year, I think I would take my license

and

> shove it into Maximus's .... I have been sober since 1997. I had

a

> + ETG last March, 1st positive I have ever had in 10 years. I

cried

> and cried. My case manager suspended me for a week, and since then

I

> have had to write(like a schoolgirl)every month how each step

affects

> my everyday life. I laughed though, and thought, why in the hell

> would I drink?? I work in a pharmacy and have access to any drug at

> anytime!! I couldn't believe she accused me of drinking. Did any

of

> these uneducated idiots talk to our sponsors, our peers, our

> therapist before blindly accusing us??? I really believe this etg

> issue is an individual inherent metabolic problem. As far as asking

> for anyother test to be performed, it, like in Lorie's contract is

> prohibited. I cannot even ask my double sample be run by another

> lab, it would be considere " suspicious, and relapse " behavior.

>

> I participated in Oregon's Pharmacist Recovery Network for 3 years,

> and they(the participants)don't have any problems with ETG up

there.

> What is with California. I debated about coming back here, to

clear

> my license after being revoked for a fee issue, but, now I question

> it. My life has been sucked out of me. Everytime I go to the

> mailbox, I'm afraid of what I will find.

> No one in AA really understands the torture we endure. It's hard,

I

> live in the middle of no where, and my closest peer is over 50

miles

> away.

> I am paranoid though, about most everything. My family thinks I'm

> lying about what diversion makes us do. I have become a shell of

the

> happy go-lucky, fun woman I used to be. I don't smile anymore, and

> most of the time I don't care about anything. That's what my

> experience with Maximus has done to me. I don't trust anyone

> anymore. It's sad.

>

> > > > > > > I think that's a little harsh Dr.dan. Lori needs

> > > > > > > some time to regain her thoughts, and lick her wounds,

> > > > > > > then I am sure she will once again be strong.

> > > > > > > Personally, I think inpatient rehab is a bad idea,

> > > > > > > simply because it forces you to " admit " to a problem

> > > > > > > you don't have, and the basic tenant of recovery is

> > > > > > > " Rigorous Honesty. " That having been said, I cannot

> > > > > > > and will not judge her or anyone else here, as I can't

> > > > > > > say what I will do if and when I am faced with the

> > > > > > > choice of that or loosing my license. I did choose to

> > > > > > > leave diversion rather than going the inpatient route,

> > > > > > > but I had hopes that before I was faced with probation

> > > > > > > the EtG nightmare would be resolved....and here we

> > > > > > > are, my probation starts 12/29, I will have to submit

> > > > > > > to EtG, and the only backup I have is that my PMD has

> > > > > > > left a standing order for a blood ETOH each time I

> > > > > > > test. I realize it will not satisfy the BRN, but it is

> > > > > > > all we could come up with.

> > > > > > > --------- insanity

> > > > > > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:08 +0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Doing the same thing and expecting a different

> > > > > > > result is the definition

> > > > > > > of insanity. You could have paired etg and ets on your

> > > > > > > specimens or

> > > > > > > taken diflucan/cipro on your testing days. To submit

> > > > > > > to this flawed

> > > > > > > test without some safety features in place is suicide

> > > > > > > and with your

> > > > > > > fund of knowledge,Lorie,it is not excusable. We all

> > > > > > > love you. When you

> > > > > > > are cut we all bleed. We do not need a

> > > > > > > victim,however,we need an

> > > > > > > advocate. Dr. Dan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > > > > > ______________

> > > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > > > > > > http://www./r/hs

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

January 11, 2008

That sounds right, I remember some nurses in my group suddenly having

this " ETG " thing that summer...little did I know how well acquainted

we would become!!

~~~~~~~~~~~Keep the Faith~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eva