Re: Deaf Prespective, Re: Sweet Nothings In My Ear

April 23, 2008

DJ,

I have read many studies and heard lectures from doctors who are very learned in

this field regarding implanting children. It is my understanding that the

earlier they receive their implants the better they will do regarding hearing

more naturally.

I have also heard that many doctors will not implant children who are not oral

because they have a much higher rate " failure " in that they do not use their

implants because it takes a lot more work for them than if they were oral.

That said....... I think it is not that they believe that a child shouldn't sign

but that they should speak to better understand what they are hearing with their

cochlear implants. These docs want to enhance their patients lives and make it

easier for them rather than make it more difficult and they do understand that

when a deaf person is not wearing their processor, they still are deaf.

Therefore, learning to sign can only help them for these instances.

Happy Hearing!

Carol

Boca Raton, FL

N24C 3G left ear -12/11/01-upgraded to Freedom on 2/19/08

N Freedom- right ear- implanted 3/01/06 activated 4/6/06

Deaf Prespective, Re: Sweet Nothings In My Ear

Well, I thought I will add my 2 cents here. hopefully provide a Deaf

prespective (the capital D for those who don't know means culturally deaf)

My wife and I who are both Deaf thought it was a well done movie. we

liked that it didn't just focus on the CI issue but that it was a

story of cross cultural relationships and the challanges faced when 2

people from such different backgrounds come togather. We also agree

with several comments about them not asking the child himself if he

wanted to get a CI. but liked how they left open the question of

whether or not he eventually got a CI... I think the reasoning for

this is if they asked him it would have removed a lot of the conflict

that was the focus of the movie! remember the first goal of this

movie is to entertain....

It did show that there are obvious generational differences between

views of older and younger Deaf persons. it touched on the issues of

opression and discrimination and abuse of Deaf persons through

history, but if you were not already aware of the issues and history

it would have easily been missed by the viewer.

What is at issue in the Deaf community is not the CI itself, but the

way it has been promoted by the hearing community and professionals.

the biggest issue is saying that implantees should not learn ASL and

should go to a mainstream school program without an interpreter!

second is that the benefits and success of a CI are overstated and

glorified and the failures and less successful outcomes are

surpressed. as far as Cochlear Corp. is concerned they support

learning ASL for every child that gets a CI and never suggested that

one should not use or learn ASL as a CI reciepient... it is the SLP,s

Audiologists and MD's that are providing the misinformation. That is

also what the Deaf community is fighting to prevent. (spread of

misinformation) Also we want there to be fair and equal

representation of both sides of the issue Deaf and Hearing... as of

yet, that has not happened in a Hearing world and in the medical

community that is dominated by Hearing professionals that have no idea

or understanding of the Deaf culture, ASL or the Deaf prespective.

I don't personally know any Deaf parents with Deaf children that have

CI's. I do know quite a few students with CI's that attend the State

School for the Deaf where my wife teaches. I do know several other

Deaf adults with CI's however. So one major point I have to make is

that if CI's worked as well as so many professionals like to boast

then why are there CI recipients attending Schools for the Deaf or in

mainstream programs with ASL interpreters!!?? South Dakota School

for the Deaf I believe it is, Has an entire floor for teaching Deaf

students with CI's

April 23, 2008

DJ,

The first time I watched Sound and Fury a few years ago, I was unable to

understand why the fuss over implanting . Between that time and the

2nd time I saw the film, I learned a bit more about the issues in the Deaf

community.

Un;less one ealks in another's shoes, its hard to understand. Some

people just have that ability to not only understand but accept. This is

true no matter what the issues are or the people that are involved. If

there was a consensus within the health profession, it might be different.

But there isnt and probably never will be.

Still, movies like this bring awareness and it can only be a good thing.

I too think it did what it set out to do...portray a family's struggles to

connect and face issues and come to some sort of mutual understanding..

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

Why do toasters always have a setting that burns the toast to a horrible

crisp, which no decent human being would eat?

& Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

Newport, Oregon

N24C 8/2000 Hookup

rclark0276@...

http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/

April 23, 2008

Being later deafened, and having already acquired speach, and not

having any deaf culture community at all in my area, a cochlear

implant was definitly a needed choice for me. But still, I have been

involved in & quot;Deaf Camp & quot; for many years, where Deaf Culture

is very much alive, and no one there had ever had a CI to my

knowledge. My sister Deb, and I went to camp the first year of our

implants and we both had some anxieties about how people would react

to our having them. For the most part, we were pretty much accepted,

with the worst comments being & quot;The CI just isn't for me & quot;,

and well, we did pretty much expect people to say that, and we

agreed, they aren't for everyone. But a lot of people were really

interested in how they worked, and were really surprised that we

could even use phones and how well we could & quot;hear & quot; now. No

one thought we had & quot;betrayed & quot; the deaf, and the ones who

wondered why we wanted the CI understood when we explained that

essentially no other deaf were in our area, and we lived with 99%

hearing people, and we needed to adapt to the hearing world. We

didn't have the luxuries of having a deaf culture nearby in which to

participate, so we had to do what was best for us in order to

& quot;survive & quot; in the world . Now there are others that have

come to Deaf Camp who have had CI's, so it's becoming more of an

accepted concept to the Deaf, just as many deaf wear hearing aids,

they are still deaf, it doesn't change their deafness, it's just

another assistive device to help them along in the world.

Quoting :

> DJ,

> The first time I watched Sound and Fury a few years ago, I was

> unable to

> understand why the fuss over implanting . Between that time

> and the

> 2nd time I saw the film, I learned a bit more about the issues in

> the Deaf

> community.

>

> Un;less one ealks in another's shoes, its hard to understand.

> Some

> people just have that ability to not only understand but accept.

> This is

> true no matter what the issues are or the people that are involved.

> If

> there was a consensus within the health profession, it might be

> different.

> But there isnt and probably never will be.

>

> Still, movies like this bring awareness and it can only be a

> good thing.

> I too think it did what it set out to do...portray a family's

> struggles to

> connect and face issues and come to some sort of mutual

> understanding..

>

> *---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

> Why do toasters always have a setting that burns the toast to a

> horrible

> crisp, which no decent human being would eat?

> & amp; Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

> Newport, Oregon

> N24C 8/2000 Hookup

> rclark0276@...

> http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally - A spam blocker that actually works.

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April 23, 2008

that was very well said.

I am very sad to seem my 3 yr old isolated in the preschool b/c he is virtually

the only kid (except those w/deaf parents) who uses ASL.

I am hoping it is just b/c of the are I am in. I am planning on moving to Boston

so my kid can go to TLC, which as I understand it, is a Bi program.

DJ <djwdeaf@...> wrote: Thank you Carol! you

just made my point perfectly clear.... That is

the very prejudice and misinformation that the Deaf community is

fighting.. there are no clinical studies that show that children who

are oral do better with an implant than those who also sign.... as a

matter of fact it show that those children that have early access to

language, IE ASL do better than those who have been denied access to

accessible language early in life. by refusing to implant children

who use ASL to communicate just continues to thwart the statistics and

spread more misinformation. The problem is that many MD's and

Audiologists and implant centers have not done a good job in conveying

to the patient and parents the extent of practice, speech and language

therapy and follow up mappings etc. involved that are needed for the

most successful outcome. I know several parents locally who have

experienced this and a couple of the children (now teenagers) don't

even use their implants at all because they did not get the follow up

and speech therapy etc. the parents were not given the needed

information to make a fully informed decision, PERIOD!

Your argument is the same one that Oral education approach has used

for the last 200 years... the problem being that when the student

fail out of an oral program or mainstream program they get moved to a

Deaf School and not counted in the " sucessful " statistics. Hence the

students are now entering a new high school and communication method

with basically no, or very limited language or literacy... then they

get counted in the " statistics for signing programs " to see these

students come out of high school with a 4th grade reading level where

they basically progressed at a rate if 1 grade a year on par with

hearing students is quite amazing considering they gained hardly

anything in a broken system the first 8 years of their formal

education. Also the average reading level for hearing students is

around the 5th grade level... at graduation from high school

The only way to provide a rich language environment to a severely to

profoundly deaf infant or young child is through sign language. as

per my own Surgeon it is 2 to 5 years for a child to become proficient

in hearing with a CI. guess what? the Language Acquisition Device.

ability of infants and young children to naturally acquire language

shuts off around age 5! any linguist can tell you if you don't

acquire a primary language in these critical years, it is almost

impossible to become native fluency in any language! ASL is 100%

accessible for the infant and young child who is deaf. this it will

give them a base language on which to build oral language. notice how

I never say the child should not be exposed to speech or denied

hearing aids or CI if qualified. this is a big difference between

what the pro-oral anti-sign establishment is saying in advocating for

oral program placement and the continued oppression of ASL. in fact I

support the use of hearing aids and if appropriate CI's in addition to

ASL. Thus what you have done is provide the child with a choice of

communication methods that as they get older can select which one

works best for them.. most likely it will be a combination of the

two. By refusing to provide a visual language environment and use ASL

with the deaf infant or child, YOU ARE DENYING THEM THE EXACT THING

YOU ARE CLAMING TO ADVOCATE! the best chance to have the most

opportunities at a sucessful life. I keep seeing the question of why

would you not get a CI for the child...Well the exact same question

works for why on earth would you not give ASL to the child... you are

denying them the best way possible for them to communicate and acquire

language and have a successful and happy life and future. Denying

ASL is no different than denying the CI or hearing aids! This double

standard is the root of the objection within the Deaf Culture and

community. Though it often get misrepresented and misinterpreted...

I think you would find that a large majority of the Deaf community

would support appropriate use of CI's if ASL use and advocacy was

presented and practiced at the same level as Oralism and CI use and

teaching of speech is promoted my the Medical and Hearing establishment..

DJ

B.A Deaf Studies,

Bilateral CI recipient

Progressive hearing loss, Profoundly deaf by 30's

>

> DJ,

> I have read many studies and heard lectures from doctors who are

very learned in this field regarding implanting children. It is my

understanding that the earlier they receive their implants the better

they will do regarding hearing more naturally.

> I have also heard that many doctors will not implant children who

are not oral because they have a much higher rate " failure " in that

they do not use their implants because it takes a lot more work for

them than if they were oral.

> That said....... I think it is not that they believe that a child

shouldn't sign but that they should speak to better understand what

they are hearing with their cochlear implants. These docs want to

enhance their patients lives and make it easier for them rather than

make it more difficult and they do understand that when a deaf person

is not wearing their processor, they still are deaf. Therefore,

learning to sign can only help them for these instances.

> Happy Hearing!

> Carol

> Boca Raton, FL

> N24C 3G left ear -12/11/01-upgraded to Freedom on 2/19/08

> N Freedom- right ear- implanted 3/01/06 activated 4/6/06

>

> Deaf Prespective, Re: Sweet Nothings In My Ear

>

> Well, I thought I will add my 2 cents here. hopefully provide a Deaf

> prespective (the capital D for those who don't know means culturally

deaf)

> My wife and I who are both Deaf thought it was a well done movie. we

> liked that it didn't just focus on the CI issue but that it was a

> story of cross cultural relationships and the challanges faced when 2

> people from such different backgrounds come togather. We also agree

> with several comments about them not asking the child himself if he

> wanted to get a CI. but liked how they left open the question of

> whether or not he eventually got a CI... I think the reasoning for

> this is if they asked him it would have removed a lot of the conflict

> that was the focus of the movie! remember the first goal of this

> movie is to entertain....

> It did show that there are obvious generational differences between

> views of older and younger Deaf persons. it touched on the issues of

> opression and discrimination and abuse of Deaf persons through

> history, but if you were not already aware of the issues and history

> it would have easily been missed by the viewer.

> What is at issue in the Deaf community is not the CI itself, but the

> way it has been promoted by the hearing community and professionals.

> the biggest issue is saying that implantees should not learn ASL and

> should go to a mainstream school program without an interpreter!

> second is that the benefits and success of a CI are overstated and

> glorified and the failures and less successful outcomes are

> surpressed. as far as Cochlear Corp. is concerned they support

> learning ASL for every child that gets a CI and never suggested that

> one should not use or learn ASL as a CI reciepient... it is the SLP,s

> Audiologists and MD's that are providing the misinformation. That is

> also what the Deaf community is fighting to prevent. (spread of

> misinformation) Also we want there to be fair and equal

> representation of both sides of the issue Deaf and Hearing... as of

> yet, that has not happened in a Hearing world and in the medical

> community that is dominated by Hearing professionals that have no idea

> or understanding of the Deaf culture, ASL or the Deaf prespective.

>

> I don't personally know any Deaf parents with Deaf children that have

> CI's. I do know quite a few students with CI's that attend the State

> School for the Deaf where my wife teaches. I do know several other

> Deaf adults with CI's however. So one major point I have to make is

> that if CI's worked as well as so many professionals like to boast

> then why are there CI recipients attending Schools for the Deaf or in

> mainstream programs with ASL interpreters!!?? South Dakota School

> for the Deaf I believe it is, Has an entire floor for teaching Deaf

> students with CI's

>

April 23, 2008

There is a belief in deaf circles that parents should not implant their

children, and they can make a choice to do so when they are adults, even

with the explanation that the implant is crucial for the critical period of

learning oral language.

April 26, 2008

,

I feel that is the main problem with the CI and the medical community,

they only focus on the " face of the CI community " and then people start

to overgeneralize things. People need to realize that there are

individual differences, no matter what community the belong to.

--

April 26, 2008

Yes and this is an ongoing issue, not just for the deaf but for

all groups. " People need to realize... " is as old as the human race.

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

Contrary to wishful thinking, Labor Day IS a day of HoneyDew work around the

house.

& Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

Newport, Oregon

N24C 8/2000 Hookup

rclark0276@...

http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/

April 27, 2008

,

What's your background prior to getting a CI(s)? What did you expect

out of CIs?

--

April 27, 2008

,

I was born hoh, and in later life began to lose more hearing to the

point hearing aids did not help. I got the CI with the hope that it would

pick up where hearing aids left off. It did. Its not perfect but its

definitely worth getting.

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

Seen On Church Sign

-- " Looking at the way some people live,

--they ought to obtain eternal fire insurance soon. "

& Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

Newport, Oregon

N24C 8/2000 Hookup

rclark0276@...

http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/

April 30, 2008

D.J.

Of all the emails I have seen regarding this movie, your impressions and those

of your wife were my sentiments exactly with regard to how the movie ended and

how they handled the issue of not telling Adam. Without a frame of reference

for him to go on concerning C.I.'s and the time-limit of the movie itself as

well and just skewing the whole plot-line.. everyhting you said.. esp. about the

older " old-school deaf genaration and vice versa... all of that spot on.

I was born deaf, mainstreamed all the way through until my late twenties when

I finally came across some other deaf students, and learned how to sing through

the sign language studies program at the College I was attending. I was able to

do so well in my classes as a result of notetakers and sign language

interpreters and was even able to go on to The University of Michigan as a

result of those grades.

Lipreading is an art... it cannot not really be taught... I was very fortunate

that my lipreading skills were always in the 95 % range, yet with the numerous

large classes and frequent schools I attended, those lipreading skills were not

enough, not to mention missing out on meeting other deaf students to socialize

with. Deaf culture will always be here to stay. I have not seen much on the

sites in the way of LIPREADING which is crucial. and Signing with ASL

reinforces lipreading skills and communication and C.I. I was implanted last

fall, loving it... and just wanted to get this out there. laurie

DJ <djwdeaf@...> wrote: