Re: Rind and iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

[Guest guest]

I appreciated the previous post as well. My theory (and of course if it

is true it may only be true for some of us) is that the stage of

Hashi's is not the issue but it is the state of nutritional deficiency

that is keeping me from tolerating iodine. I was just diagnosed with

Hashi's - am not even on thyroid hormones - and I couldn't tolerate

iodine - so the problem is not specific to late stage Hashi's. Also,

the thyroid is just one part of the body that needs iodine and people

without thyroids have said they not only tolerate but flourish with

iodine.

My Red Blood Cell analysis showed an unusally low copper level, which

other sources say is related to hyperthyroidism (my reaction to

iodine). Since I have been working on getting my vitamin and mineral

levels up, I have already noticed an ability to handle more iodine.

Though I have been very conservative with the iodine, wanting to give

everything time to balance. So this is just a tentative conclusion. But

one worth investigating. In particular, trace minerals (I've been using

ConcenTrace brand) have been incredibly helpful. So much so that I

wonder if it wouldn't make sense to recommend them just the same way we

recommend selenium, vit C and magnesium to those supplementing iodine.

Of course, it might be just me - I would like to hear how other do with

trace minerals.

Sharon

> I especially appreciated your post as I am a Hashi's patient who

> also has felt unwell/ill from iodine. even vitamins with iodine

> after a couple of days will have that effect. I too have thought it

> odd to be encouraged to take more when my body was obviously telling

> me otherwise. And like you speculate, I have also speculated that

> my reaction has something to do with the stage of my Hashi's which

> is late stage atrophic. How can a fibrous atrophic thyroid gland

> even store iodine? And if it can't, do the other parts of my body

> get overloaded and thus toxic? I wish Brownstein had info

> about " stage " of disease as I think it's a factor.

[Guest guest]

This is not, however, what Brownstein says in his Iodine book...in

his book he " speculates " and does not make a declarative statement

at all that iodine deficiency is the cause.

It's not that I'm convinced I can't take it...but taking it and

feeling ill because of it somehow doesn't quite seem worth it when I

don't have any issues to address with it. My hypo symptoms were

eliminated quite a while ago with Armour. My only reason to take it

now would be as a supplement like I take other vitamins, etc...

because I might not be getting what I need from diet.

cindi

>

> Abraham and Brownstein's stance on autoimmune thyroiditis

(Hashimoto's):

>

> " We previously presented evidence that autoimmune thyroiditis is

due to iodine

> and magnesium deficiency, not iodine excess, and patients with

autoimmune

> thyroiditis have responded to this nutritional program. "

>

> http://www.townsendletter.com/July2006/iodinerebuttal3_0706.htm

>

> How do you know you are just not detoxing bromide or heavy

metals? Could be

> just the thing you need most is what you are now convinced you

can't take. I

> believe a number of us with hashi's had initial difficulties

taking the iodine.

[Guest guest]

In reading your comments...honestly the only thing that came to mind

was you hadn't spent 15-25 years with untreated Hashimoto's...come

near dying...and been given new a second chance at life with

Armour. I feel very blessed to be alive. Every day is a bonus. So

if iodine makes feel sick/nauseous/ill, I think my body has a right

at this late date to say " no " as I try not to waste a single day.

now if I develop breast cancer, I'll reconsider as sickness from

iodine seems preferable to something like surgery/chemotherapy. no

offense meant...just my take on it.

Cindi

> > > >

> > > > Or it could indicate that, in her case, iodine is contra-

indicated

> > > > due the the stage of her disease. Iodine therapy is good for

a lot

> > > > of things. I think the jury is still out on its

effectiveness with

> > > > Hashi's patients. Its effectiveness may well depend upon how

> > > > advanced their disease is. I don't think one can necessarily

make

> > > a

> > > > blanket statement about iodine treatment & Hashi's.

> > > >

> > > >

http://www.thyroidmanager.org/chapter8/8__iodide_metabolism.htm

> > > > " ...Many patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis do not

respond to

> > > > injected TSH with the expected increase in RAIU or release of

> > > > hormone from the gland(81). These findings probably mean

that the

> > > > gland is partially destroyed by the autoimmune attack and is

> > > unable

> > > > to augment iodine metabolism further...Iodide is actively

> > > > transported from blood to thyrocytes and recently the

sodium /

> > > > iodide symporter (NIS) has been cloned. Antibodies against

NIS

> > > were

> > > > found in autoimmune thyroid disease(83). This antibody has an

> > > > inhibitory activity on iodide transport and may modulate the

> > > thyroid

> > > > function in Hashimoto's thyroiditis. More recent studies

reported

> > > > rather low prevalence (less than 10%) of anti-NIS antibodies

in

> > > > Hashimoto's disease and clinical relevance is still unknown

(84),

> > > > (85). "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>____________________________________________________________________

________________

> >The all-new beta

> >Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

> >http://new.mail.

> >

> >

> >

> >Iodine

[Guest guest]

I really want to take iodine as there is a lot of breast cancer in my

family. It does make me so hyper everytime I take it, whether it be

through vitamins, supplements, or shell fish. I ordered a bottle of

lugols and am putting it on my skin, with only getting slightly hyper

after a couple days of doing this. The iodine stain is almost gone

after 6 hours though. Does anyone have suggestions on what I can do, in

order to take iodine without feeling like I am on a cafeine high (btw I

don't do cafeine at all). Also I have been diagnosed with hashi's for

about 7 years, and know I have had it many years before being

diagnosed, because my TSH was 9-11 for many years before anyone would

treat me. After finally finding a doctor across state that would Rx a

T3 med, I am now on compounded porcine thyroid hormone (same as Armour

but without the binders and fillers which bother me also). I was on

SINthyroid for about 4 years. V

>

> I agree with . I don't know what the iodine does to you. The

biggest

> concern is if it makes you hyper. If it doesn't there's probably

little

> risk.

>

[Guest guest]

What bothers me is to see a poster recommend increasing to a mega-

dose of iodine when a person had problems at a lower dose. No

titrating the dose to the patient. No taking the body's response

into account. This is NOT what those who are most involved in high-

dose theraputic iodine dosing are doing - Brownstein, Flechas, et

al. This flies in the face of their medical expertise. The

unilateral approach bothers me.

There are many medical conditions & processes that interplay with

iodine metabolism. We are just beginning to understand this process.

No one knows it all. That's one of the points of this discussion

group and the Iodine4Health website - to foster a growing

understanding of iodine's use & benefits.

Shall we all stridently insist that everyone take 5mg of Armour

because we say that's what work? Of course not. Or Vitamin C - is it

mandatory that everyone consume 3grams/day to experience its health

benefits? Not necessarily. Why should iodine be any different? In

all nutrients, and life, there is a range that brings good health.

I think it hurts the credibility of the iodine research to be

strident and unilateral in the dosing amount that is most effective

for the INDIVIDUAL.

The point of this exercise is for all of us to experience good

health. Not to mega-dose in all circumstances at 50mg. Nowhere do

you ever see Brownstein do that, to my knowledge.

I think Cindi's case is particularly interesting in that she

experiences side effects to iodine even in mcg doses (the amount in

a supplement). Defects in her sodium-iodine transport system?

Defects in the enzymatic process of metabolising the iodine? She's

one of those lucky few that already gets tons of iodine in her diet

& environmental exposure? She's of the mind that her thyroid is

totally defunct from many decades of Hashi's. If she needs no iodine

for the gland, her bodily requirement is much lower that the norm.

Who know? Maybe it's not just detoxing effects or Hashi's issues.

I believe in iodine supplementation. But I don't see value to

repeatedly postulating that a 50mg dose is appropriate for

everyone's ailments. I believe some balance and assessment of the

individual's case is required.

My POV, IMHO, FWIW

acronyms-r-us

>

> >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

> >This is not, however, what Brownstein says in his Iodine book...in

> >his book he " speculates " and does not make a declarative statement

> >at all that iodine deficiency is the cause.

> >

> >It's not that I'm convinced I can't take it...but taking it and

> >feeling ill because of it somehow doesn't quite seem worth it

when I don't have any issues to address with it. My hypo symptoms

were eliminated quite a while ago with Armour. My only reason to

take it now would be as a supplement like I take other vitamins,

etc... because I might not be getting what I need from diet.

> >cindi

>

> That depends.

>

> It the illness persists it's true, no good reason to take it.

>

> I did not feel well the first few times I tried it. Now I think

I feel better because of it, but I had to go through the stages

where it made me feel worse.

>

> It may help the adrenals.

>

> It may help with detox, which may help you feel better overall.

Of course, be sure to take adequate selenium.

>

> Skipper

[Guest guest]

Have you tried lowering your thyroid meds slightly when you're

taking the iodine? Some people find they don't need as much thyroid

when they're on the iodine. Perhaps that's why you're getting the

hyper feeling.

> >

> > I agree with . I don't know what the iodine does to you.

The biggest concern is if it makes you hyper. If it doesn't there's

probably little risk.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , thanks for the response. I thought of that also. I tried

lowering my thyroid hormone and that didn't seem to make any

difference. V

>

> Have you tried lowering your thyroid meds slightly when you're

> taking the iodine? Some people find they don't need as much thyroid

> when they're on the iodine. Perhaps that's why you're getting the

> hyper feeling.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have you tried lowering your thyroid meds slightly when you're

> taking the iodine? Some people find they don't need as much thyroid

> when they're on the iodine. Perhaps that's why you're getting the

> hyper feeling.

>

-------> My mother has needed to lower her since Flechas put her on

50mgs of iodoral/day. After about a month or so on this she was

getting quite jumpy and irritable. Since she cut back on the thyroid

that's gone away. His goal is to get her off all the thyroids meds by

spring. He told her to cut down very slowly. She was on a 1 1/2 grains

of armour.

I take her back to him on Nov. 29th so will have more to report then.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Thanks Gracia, I am tempted to do the loading test, but am concerned as

to what that much iodine will do. Do you know anything about hair

analysis, as iodine is tested with that? I had a hair analysis done

when chelating for mercury. I also have lyme disease and a DOM I am

going to seems to think that after inflammatory pathways are cleared

with the lyme protocol I am on, I will be better able to tolerate more

iodine. I tell ya I'm getting too old for all this stuff going on.

V

>

>

> I really really think the higher doses of Lugols or Iodoral will

not give you trouble, unless you need adrenal meds. Do the loading

test--you might be very surprised.

> Gracia

>

[Guest guest]

interestingly, there's an iodine thread currently at the 's

Disease group...and other Polyglandular Syndrome (Hashi's/'s)

folks are reporting the same problems as I have....some having

broken out in a rash just from the use of Betadine (?)...so I don't

know why we wouldn't believe the literature (including Brownstein)

that those with autoimmune thyroid problems can have

problems/sensitivities.

cindi

>

>

> IMO you are not understanding how to read the symptoms!

> Peeps on low doses of Armour have lots of " symptoms " . Then they

think they cannot tolerate Armour, are " allergic " etc etc but this

is a misperception. They need more Armour and/or adrenal meds and

in my case sex hormnes too. I do not believe we are all so

different either! We differ in the severity and length of our

illness.

> 's reaction to low dose iodine in particular says to me

something competely different than her/your interpretation of it!

[Guest guest]

why would you call it FEAR? I said iodine supplementation makes me

feel ILL, not fearful. I call it WISE when I listen to my body and

read the medical research which indicates iodine can have detrimenal

effects to autoimmune thyroid patients and that some folks have

sensitivities to it and realize that obviously I am one of them. I

am, however, interested in hypothyroidism caused by iodine

deficiency as I have always been puzzled when hypo folks didn't have

antibodies...and now I know what the problem could be.

But if a little bit of iodine makes me, a Hashi's patient feel

bad...which according to the medical literature is not at all

unusual..why would i be stupid enough to take in a larger amount of

it to test? think autoimmune...we react to many things...and we

learn what not to do to aggravate our system.

Yes, I am sure that Brownstein might push the issue as he has a

theory and appears to be certain that iodine can be beneficial to

everyone, even Hashi's patients. He could be wrong. Another 5 years

of observation and we will know more.

Cindi

>

> I would at least get a urinalysis and determine your saturation

before throwing

> in the towel. Knowing how low your saturation is might help you

overcome your

> fear of it.

>

> I do believe that Brownstein would try several ways to determine

whether iodine

> were truly a problem instead of giving up at the first sign of

trouble.

[Guest guest]

polyglandular just means more than one endocrine gland has gone

kaput. I think I've seen it also labeled Polyendocrine. autoimmune

disease affecting a single endocrine gland is frequently (25% of the

time) followed by impairment of other glands. So the Polyglandular

Syndromes I, II, and III are just ways of labeling the multiple

gland failures...and ways of offering more descriptive info about

the syndrome.

For example (if i'm remember correctly), someone with Hashi's and

Vitiligo could also be labeled Polyglandular Syndrome III.

Should they develop 's, they get changed to Polyglandular

Syndrome II. but you also learn in studying the syndromes, what

might present with them...celiac, vitiligo, diabetes, etc...

As for HPA axis impairment...I suppose the stress alone of multiple

autoimmune endocrine disorder could impair it...and possibly be a

factor in the origin of it. :-(

Cindi

>

>

> what does polyglandular syndrome mean? Does this mean damage

to H-P-A axis?

[Guest guest]

Thanks Irene, I did not know of the spot test. V

> > >

> > >

> > > I really really think the higher doses of Lugols or Iodoral will

> >not give you trouble, unless you need adrenal meds. Do the loading

> >test--you might be very surprised.

> > > Gracia

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

no disagreement with your statements...but relative to

the " diagnostic " label discussed ...a person would actually have to

Have the diagnoses (i.e. Hashi's and 's) to be classified as

Polyglandular Syndrome II.

cindi

>

> >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

> Of course, " polyglandular " could also mean that the endocrine

system is

> impaired because problems with one gland causes problems with

another.

>

> Low thyroid can cause low adrenals, which is why Langer in " Solved

the

> Riddle of Illness " (who doesn't treat patients with Cortef) says

that taking

> thyroid hormone usually increases adrenal production of cortisol.

>

> Low adrenals can cause low thyroid by inhibiting conversion of T4

to T3.

>

> High cortisol can cause low thyroid by causing excessive amounts

of T4 to

> turn into inactive rT3 instead of T3.

>

> Adrenaline, cortisol from the adrenals have an interplay with

insulin from

> the pancreas.

>

> Low thyroid causes low testosterone / estrogen / progesterone.

Reverse

> issues can also cause problems.

>

> Pituitary problems can of course cause multiple misfunctions.

>

> Nutritional problems can cause one organ to have problems which

has a

> cascading effect.

>

> Just because multiple things seem to be going wrong doesn't mean

they don't

> all have the same root cause.

[Guest guest]

damage to the gland with Hashi's also occurs independent of

antibodies according to Werner & Ingbar's, The Thyroid. remember

approx. 10% of Hashi's patients don't have antibodies. So the

disease can progress independent of antibodies. it's just that so

many do have antibodies it a good tool to use for diagnostic

purposes. young people with Hashi's also may not have developed

antibodies yet. and yes, antibodies will go away as the disease

has run its course. that's why a person with low antibodies can have

more thyroid damage than someone with high antibodies.

for now, I'm more comfortable with my own experience which validates

the vast amount of literature on the subject of iodine

supplementation and autoimmune thyroid disease.

but i agree that someone who is hypo from iodine deficiency (not

Hashimoto's) would have to go off their meds/adjust meds to see if

full thyroid function had returned from iodine supplementation.

Personally, i would be hesitant to recommend that to a late stage

Hashi's person.

cindi

>

> According to thyroidmanager.org, in 25 percent of Hashi's

patients,

> antibodies go away on their own after a period of time. However,

if their

> doctor put them on synthroid for life, they'll never know if they

get better

> if they stay on it for life.

>

> In the same way, with most of us, if we don't try to lower or

eliminate our

> meds, we won't know if we still need them.

>

> The problem is, going off them can be hell if we really still do

need them.

>

> As for you not liking iodine supplementation, you have the right.

But, just

> because you stopped because you felt ill on it, doesn't mean it's

not

> beneficial to you. I've been on it for about three months now

(12.5 to 25

> mg of Lugol's per day.). This is the fourth time I've started,

the other

> times I stopped because I felt fatigued and ill from it. Whether

a detox

> reaction or something else, I don't know for sure. But, I

certainly feel

> it's helping me now.

>

> Not to say it'll work for you. But, just because you didn't feel

well at

> first, doesn't mean that should be the final answer or the final

attempt.

> Imagine, I had been on Cortef since 2000 and now after six years,

I don't

> think I need it any more. Still waiting for signs of a crash that

haven't

> happened yet. I don't think I'll need it anymore because of the

positive

> effects of Lugol's Solution.

>

> Since sleep is known as being very important to adrenal recovery,

maybe it's

> the better sleep I'm getting. Or maybe my adrenal tissues were

just iodine

> deficient, it sounds like they know the adrenals soak up iodine,

just not

> the reason why. Well, since mercury is an adrenal toxin, maybe it

helps

> detox from the adrenals from that or something else. Or maybe it

helps with

> cortisol or adrenaline production.

>

> I've been off Cortef before, but never more than a week before I

had to go

> back on it.

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Skipper,

I don't think I've ever written anywhere that I don't " like " iodine

supplementation. I'm not quite sure why you would think that. Can

you explain what I may have written that said I thought iodine

supplementation appropriate to the individual wasn't a good therapy?

And yes, because I felt ill on it may very well mean it's not a good

thing for me. That seems to be the sticking point for you? Well,

it's consistent with the medical literature on autoimmune thyroid

disease and/or could be a sensitivity to iodine which is also known

in the literature. Like I have mentioned before, when you have

lived 15-25 years with Hashi's and have gotten stable at last...you

might also be loathe to force yourself to become ill for some

unknown gain.

cindi

>>

> As for you not liking iodine supplementation, you have the right.

But, just

> because you stopped because you felt ill on it, doesn't mean it's

not

> beneficial to you. I've been on it for about three months now

(12.5 to 25

> mg of Lugol's per day.). This is the fourth time I've started,

the other

> times I stopped because I felt fatigued and ill from it. Whether

a detox

> reaction or something else, I don't know for sure. But, I

certainly feel

> it's helping me now.

>

> Not to say it'll work for you. But, just because you didn't feel

well at

> first, doesn't mean that should be the final answer or the final

attempt.

> Imagine, I had been on Cortef since 2000 and now after six years,

I don't

> think I need it any more. Still waiting for signs of a crash that

haven't

> happened yet. I don't think I'll need it anymore because of the

positive

> effects of Lugol's Solution.

>

> Since sleep is known as being very important to adrenal recovery,

maybe it's

> the better sleep I'm getting. Or maybe my adrenal tissues were

just iodine

> deficient, it sounds like they know the adrenals soak up iodine,

just not

> the reason why. Well, since mercury is an adrenal toxin, maybe it

helps

> detox from the adrenals from that or something else. Or maybe it

helps with

> cortisol or adrenaline production.

[Guest guest]

Arem...he's the one that doesn't like Armour, right?

no...I don't think he was wrong about Hashi's folks having

antibodies that can't be detected...there can be numerous kinds of

thyroid related antibodies. But I was talking specifically about

the ones used for diagnostic purposes - TPO and Antithyroglobulin.

Personally, I'm not certain that Hashimoto's ever " goes away " ...I do

believe it can go into remission. It is described as a progressive

disease. I'm also fairly suspicious that severely affected multi-

generational Hashi's families might also also have undetected

genetic defects with the HPT axis.

Cindi

>

> >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

> >damage to the gland with Hashi's also occurs independent of

> >antibodies according to Werner & Ingbar's, The Thyroid. remember

> >approx. 10% of Hashi's patients don't have antibodies.

>

> Arem said they had antibodies, they just weren't capable of

detecting the

> particular kinds. Was he wrong?

>

> So the

> >disease can progress independent of antibodies. it's just that so

> >many do have antibodies it a good tool to use for diagnostic

> >purposes. young people with Hashi's also may not have developed

> >antibodies yet. and yes, antibodies will go away as the disease

> >has run its course. that's why a person with low antibodies can

have

> >more thyroid damage than someone with high antibodies.

>

> It can also go away and leave the thyroid undamaged. I wasn't

saying it

> went away and left them all damaged without functioning thyroids.

[Guest guest]

If I felt there were symptoms to address, your comments would make

more sense to me.

Are you not listening to just a few doctors' research on this? I

don't think we can discount years of objective research and

observation...and I do tend to take note when medical information

validates my own experience.

It took them so long to address my Hashi's because of reliance on a

test to determine deficiency. Perhaps that does explain some of my

reservations about the iodine loading test as the tell-all on iodine

deficiency?

cindi

>

> It's not the " sticking point. " You see, I believe just because

you didn't

> feel well on it doesn't mean that wouldn't improve after a period

of time.

> If it did improve, it's likely you would be better off than you

are now.

>

>

> Well,

> >it's consistent with the medical literature on autoimmune thyroid

> >disease and/or could be a sensitivity to iodine which is also

known

> >in the literature.

>

> Sure, listen to the medical profession. Just because they ADMIT

to being

> the fourth leading cause of death in the US doesn't mean you

shouldn't

> listen to their opinions.

>

> If they're so smart, why'd it take them so long to treat your

Hashi's?

>

>

> Like I have mentioned before, when you have

> >lived 15-25 years with Hashi's and have gotten stable at

last...you

> >might also be loathe to force yourself to become ill for some

> >unknown gain.

>

> I suspect many people on this list are in that same position. It

is not

> unusual to be hypothyroid for a long time without being diagnosed.

I didn't

> have Hashi's, but did take a long time to be diagnosed starting

with the

> first doctor visit for hypo symptoms. Eventually, I got more and

more

> fatigued, developed terrible foot pain so bad I limped when I

walked for 4

> years, and had all kinds of things going wrong. Often as one's

life

> continues to fall apart, he/she finally figure out what's wrong

with them

> and tells the doctor. The bad time you've had is not unusual when

you're at

> the mercy of our medical profession.

>

> True, I can't guarantee that trying iodine again, or in larger

doses will

> help you.

>

> Neither can you really be sure it will have continue to have a

negative

> effect on you.

>

> My belief is if it's not making you hyper, it's very unlikely to

be doing

> any damage at all. More likely to be a detox type reaction,

which tend to

> be quite unpleasant for a while.

>

> But, just because the medical profession doesn't like it doesn't

mean much.

> It's scary to be at the mercy of the medical profession because

they've

> killed and crippled us by the hundreds of thousand by their

stupidity. I

> couldn't even walk decently for 4 years because they couldn't

diagnose a

> simple thyroid condition.

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Fixing up the home? Live Search can help

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[Guest guest]

I no longer have low thyroid/low adrenal symptoms now that they are

treated with the appropriate lacking hormones.

No, all docs do not believe in TSH. many actually listen to their

patient's symptoms and diagnose - as well as pay attention to their

patients' response to various therapies...which can be quite

individual.

How about this for a compromise? since evidently I react to iodine

supplementation negatively like another Hashi's patient, Shoman

(achy/tired/ill) - when she starts taking iodine supplements...I'll

try it again.

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/vitaminsupplement/a/iodine_2.htm

In the interim, I'll be watching to see if anyone develops AT from

the high dose iodine they are taking as per the literature.

Cindi

>

> >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

> >If I felt there were symptoms to address, your comments would make

> >more sense to me.

>

> Low thyroid / low adrenals aren't symptoms?

> >

> Don't all doctors believe in TSH because of " years of objective

research " ?

>

> I don't know about the loading test either. It's not a new

concept, as some

> have said in the past that's allegedly the best way to test

magnesium

> levels.

>

>

> In what ways do you feel unwell when taking iodine?

[Guest guest]

I think she's been a good thyroid patient advocate myself. nutjob or

not...I can give her due credit for her informative books, web site

information, tackling thyroid issues, etc. In fact I don't know anyone

else who has been as good a thyroid patient advocate as Shoman.

do you?

cindi

>

> Shoman is a bit of a nutjob, in my opinion.

[Guest guest]

autoimmune thyroiditis - hashimoto's

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1345585 & dopt=Abstract

cindi

>

> Cindi,

>

> What do you mean by AT?

[Guest guest]

oops, broken link... sandra, here's another one...but basically it's

just one of the pubmed abstracts linking iodine to hashimoto's:

1: Autoimmun Rev. 2002 Feb;1(1-2):97-103. Links

Iodine: an environmental trigger of thyroiditis.Rose NR, Bonita R,

Burek CL.

MCP Hahnemann University School of Medicine, 2900 Queen Lane,

Philadelphia, PA 19129, USA. nrrose@...

Like most autoimmune diseases of humans, chronic lymphocytic

(Hashimoto's) thyroiditis results from the combination of a genetic

predisposition and an environmental trigger. A body of clinical and

epidemiologic evidence points to excessive ingestion of iodine as an

environmental agent. In genetically determined thyroiditis in

animals, iodine enrichment has been shown to increase the incidence

and severity of disease. Its mechanism of action is still uncertain.

Using a new animal model of autoimmune thyroiditis, the NOD.H2(h4)

mouse, we have been able to show that iodine enhances disease in a

dose-dependent manner. Immunochemical studies suggest that iodine

incorporation in the thyroglobulin may augment the antigenicity of

this molecule by increasing the affinity of its determinants for the

T-cell receptor or the MHC-presenting molecule either altering

antigen processing or by affecting antigen presentation.

PMID: 12849065 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

cindi

> >

> > Cindi,

> >

> > What do you mean by AT?

>

[Guest guest]

here's the first one i refereced:

1: Endokrynol Pol. 1992;43 Suppl 1:53-69. Related Articles, Links

The relationship between autoimmune thyroid disease and iodine

intake: a review.

Foley TP Jr.

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism and Diabetes Mellitus, School

of Medicine, University of Pittsburgh.

There is evidence to suggest that elevated levels of iodide in the

diet are associated with autoimmune thyroid disease (ATD) in

susceptible individuals, and that autoimmune thyroiditis

(Hashimoto's disease) is less common in susceptible individuals who

live in regions with dietary iodine deficiency. There are

epidemiologic studies in endemic goiter areas that report an

increase in ATD, particularly thyroiditis, after the therapeutic

administration of iodized salt, bread and oil. Lymphocytic

infiltration of the thyroid is rarely found in patients from severe

endemic goiter regions, yet there is a reversal of this observation

after dietary iodine supplementation. Thyroid antibodies, both

thyroglobulin (TgAb) and peroxidase (TpAb) or microsomal, were not

detected in serum from patients with endemic goiter, but became

positive in 43% of subjects three and six months after therapy with

iodized oil, and there developed transient hyperthyroidism.

Similarly, the addition of iodine to the diet or the administration

of iodine-containing medications increases the frequency of ATD and

the severity of existing autoimmune thyroiditis. Furthermore,

autoimmune thyroiditis has been induced by the administration of

excess iodide to strains of chickens and rats that are genetically

predetermined to develop the disease. We are beginning to understand

the pathogenesis of ATD. In hyperthyroidism the evidence clearly

supports the hypothesis that TSH receptor antibodies (TRAb)

stimulate the TSH receptor to induce excessive and sustained

secretion of thyroid hormones. Cellmediated immune mechanisms, such

as antibody dependent cellmediated cytotoxicity (ADCC), initiate the

lymphocytic infiltration and thyrocytotoxicity in autoimmune

thyroiditis. The mechanisms that initiate the development of the

abnormal immune response and the relationship of ATD with excess

iodide are poorly understood. There is evidence that an increase in

the iodination of thyroglobulin (Tg) enhances its immunogenicity.

The results of clinical and experimental studies support the

requirement of a genetic predisposition to the development of ATD

that may be precipitated by exposure to certain environmental

factors. Another mechanism supported by experimental data is the

direct toxic effect of excess iodide on iodide-deficient thyroid

glands. High concentrations of iodide after oxidation to iodine

causes epithelial necrosis and inflammation associated with

lipofuscin accumulation suggestive of toxicity mediated by lipid

peroxidation from excessive amounts of free radicals. The epithelial

damage would initiate inflammatory and immune responses. Although

these mechanisms would relate to the onset of autoimmune thyroiditis

on exposure to excessive amounts of iodide, the relationship of

iodide intake and autoimmune hyperthyroidism is less clear.(ABSTRACT

TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)

Publication Types:

Review

PMID: 1345585 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> autoimmune thyroiditis - hashimoto's

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> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1345585 & dopt=Abstract

[Guest guest]

-------Sharon writes:>>my theory is that nutritional deficiencies are caused by low thyroid low adrenals! Everything gets messed up. I was interested to read that adrenal treatment with cortef enhances protein, fat and carb metabolisim. For most of my life I have eaten a great diet and felt like I got very little from it. GraciaI appreciated the previous post as well. My theory (and of course if it is true it may only be true for some of us) is that the stage of Hashi's is not the issue but it is the state of nutritional deficiency that is keeping me from tolerating iodine. I was just diagnosed with Hashi's - am not even on thyroid hormones - and I couldn't tolerate iodine - so the problem is not specific to late stage Hashi's. Also, the thyroid is just one part of the body that needs iodine and people without thyroids have said they not only tolerate but flourish with iodine. My Red Blood Cell analysis showed an unusally low copper level, which other sources say is related to hyperthyroidism (my reaction to iodine). Since I have been working on getting my vitamin and mineral levels up, I have already noticed an ability to handle more iodine. Though I have been very conservative with the iodine, wanting to give everything time to balance. So this is just a tentative conclusion. But one worth investigating. In particular, trace minerals (I've been using ConcenTrace brand) have been incredibly helpful. So much so that I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to recommend them just the same way we recommend selenium, vit C and magnesium to those supplementing iodine. Of course, it might be just me - I would like to hear how other do with trace minerals.>>

Hi Sharon,

I so agree with you! I have been heavily supplementing minerals based on RBC tests, and iron based on ferritin testing, and I feel that is a big part of what is helping me tolerate Lugol's/Iodoral.

If you recall, I first posted to the group several months ago because although taking Armour thyroid, having a goiter, and being low on iodine (based on loading test), I had severe reactions to any form of potassium iodide.

Eventually I found I could tolerate Iosol in very small doses and had to be really careful about rate of increase.

Several weeks ago, I found I had developed a goiter (actually, it had become larger, but wasn't new). I also found my neck painful and I had difficulty swallowing or wearing a turtleneck. I immediately began supplementing with Lugol's and the pain went away, and eventually the discomfort. This was amazing, since I could never tolerate that form of iodine.

Now I am experimenting with Iodoral (instead of Lugol's) based on a consult with Dr. Flechas, and I also am having no problem with that. Fingers crossed! I also began supplementing with hydrocortisone--I think that helped when I finally got the right dose and frequency. Recently, alt med doc added 20 mgs. progesterone and I believe this is also helping.

So it's complicated. I hate to see folks just give up on iodine if they need it without exploring--as you are doing--mineral deficiencies and other deficiencies, like low cortisol or other hormones.

Best,

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

> For most of my life I have eaten a great diet and felt like I got very

> little from it.

> Gracia

>

Hi, Gracia,

You take a large dose of Iodoral, and if I remember correctly perhaps

a couple of other things in higher doses (not sure I'm recalling

exactly). Then you mentioned that you eat a great diet & got little

from it.

Have you considered the possibility of some sort of an absorption

issue? Just curious...