Re: Rind and iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

[Guest guest]

" Iodine " book says Dr. G. Abraham recommends a daily dose 12 mg. a day

and that Brownstein has found an effective dose to be " somewhere

between 12 and 50 mg. a day " . Have they changed their recommendation?

Does Flechas recommend 50 mg. a day to everyone?

What other iodine docs?

cindi

>

>

> I don't consider 50mg a large dose of Iodoral b/c it is what is

recommended by the iodine docs.

[Guest guest]

yes, I have. so you didn't interpret Gracia's statement that docs

recommend 50 mg. as usual dose as implying that was an usual

maintenance dose? guess i did. perhaps she can clarify.

cindi

> > >

> > >

> > > I don't consider 50mg a large dose of Iodoral b/c it is

what is

> > recommended by the iodine docs.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

>> > Standard for Armour is not 1-3 grains on the support

> groups! That will keep peeps very sick. It is not standard

> for BB docs either.

> > Gracia

> >

>

> No, but it is standard among establishment docs.

>

> Skipper

I've used 2 grains (120 mg) Armour for 8 yrs now and doing

well with it. Was using 125 mcg T4 + 5 mcg Cytomel T3 before.

Carol

[Guest guest]

> According to my 1940 Merck Manual, 3 grains was a starting dosage,

if the

> troubles weren't fixed by reaching 9 grains it was another issue.

Which is

> why Dr. Derry said that the dose of Armour is now one-third of what

it was

> historically, before they started treating by the TSH number. Which

is why

> 1 to 3 grains is a lot more common. Not because it always resolves

> symptoms, but because it lowers TSH and they forget to look at symptoms.

>

>

Wonder if they took it on an empty stomach in 1940, or if it was taken

with food, as Dommisse recommends...any info on that, Skipper?

[Guest guest]

50mg is a therapeutic dose to reach iodine saturation or to detox

halogens in certain individuals. It is not a maintenance dose. In

that sense, yes...it is a " large dose. "

> > > I don't consider 50mg a large dose of Iodoral b/c it is

what is recommended by the iodine docs.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dahlia,

That is so inspiring! I can't wait to hear how you continue to do

with iodine! What did your RBC show? Which minerals, etc. have you

been supplementing?

Wonderful news! Take care,

Sharon

> Hi Sharon,

> I so agree with you! I have been heavily supplementing minerals

based on

> RBC tests, and iron based on ferritin testing, and I feel that is

a big

> part of what is helping me tolerate Lugol's/Iodoral.

>

> If you recall, I first posted to the group several months ago

because

> although taking Armour thyroid, having a goiter, and being low on

iodine

> (based on loading test), I had severe reactions to any form of

potassium

> iodide.

>

> Eventually I found I could tolerate Iosol in very small doses and

had to

> be really careful about rate of increase.

>

> Several weeks ago, I found I had developed a goiter (actually, it

had

> become larger, but wasn't new). I also found my neck painful and I

had

> difficulty swallowing or wearing a turtleneck. I immediately began

> supplementing with Lugol's and the pain went away, and eventually

the

> discomfort. This was amazing, since I could never tolerate that

form of

> iodine.

>

> Now I am experimenting with Iodoral (instead of Lugol's) based on a

> consult with Dr. Flechas, and I also am having no problem with

that.

> Fingers crossed! I also began supplementing with hydrocortisone--I

think

> that helped when I finally got the right dose and frequency.

Recently,

> alt med doc added 20 mgs. progesterone and I believe this is also

> helping.

>

> So it's complicated. I hate to see folks just give up on iodine if

they

> need it without exploring--as you are doing--mineral deficiencies

and

> other deficiencies, like low cortisol or other hormones.

>

> Best,

> Dahlia

>

[Guest guest]

Subject: Re: Rind and iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

----Sharon writes:

>>Hi Dahlia,That is so inspiring! I can't wait to hear how you continue to do with iodine! What did your RBC show? Which minerals, etc. have you been supplementing?Wonderful news! Take care,>>

Hi Sharon,

Well, I may have spoken too soon!!! After a couple of days on 12.5 mgs. Iodoral with no ill effects, I (stupid, stupid, stupid) went to 12.5 twice a day and after my second dose, I had definite hyperT symptoms. I called Flechas' office and they told me to decrease my overall dose of Armour which is 90 mgs. by 15-30 mgs.

Instead of that, today I took only 12.5 Iodoral and am supplementing with Iosol and Lugol's to stay at 50 mgs. By afternoon, my pulses and temps are dropping, which is according to Flechas what will happen from too much Armour.

So, I'm still experimenting--but definitely optimistic! If this happens again tomorrow, I will definitely drop the Armour dose, but with great trepidation. Any comments on this, anyone?

All my RBC mineral levels came back normal (a couple years ago they were all quite far below normal), and when I spoke with Flechas, he said he thought these levels were fine. I'm still supplementing iron twice a week to keep my ferritin levels above 40. I also take tons of magnesium (around 1200mgs), and 500-600 mcg. of selenium. I take a multi mineral from Thorne called PicMins, plus extra chromium and zinc; and Pioneer Cal Mag, although I agree with that Calcium can sometimes be contraindicated. In my case, I take around 200 mgs. At least once a day, sometimes twice or three times, I take 1/4 tsp. Celtic Sea Salt with vitamin C. I also make vegetable juice daily, partly for the mins.

I ordered the Aussie Sea Minerals based on your report, and am still waiting for them to arrive. Can't wait to try them! I believe so much in the minerals as the basis for health, and being able to supplement with iodine. I'm glad you're moving in that direction, and was interested in your results with Concentrace.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your interest. It helps!

Dahlia

p.s. has been bouncing my posts and digests. If anyone has responded to me and I haven't responded back, that is why. If you would kindly re-post, I have re-activated, or email me privately. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dahlia

I meant to get back to you about this.

I don't understand why you are taking Iosol and Lugols too! Iosol is only iodine and you may be needing more iodide. I really felt a million % better on 25mg Iodoral 2X a day. Plus enough cortef you should be fine. then you can find how much Armour you need.

Gracia

Subject: Re: Rind and iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

----Sharon writes:

>>Hi Dahlia,That is so inspiring! I can't wait to hear how you continue to do with iodine! What did your RBC show? Which minerals, etc. have you been supplementing?Wonderful news! Take care,>>

Hi Sharon,

Well, I may have spoken too soon!!! After a couple of days on 12.5 mgs. Iodoral with no ill effects, I (stupid, stupid, stupid) went to 12.5 twice a day and after my second dose, I had definite hyperT symptoms. I called Flechas' office and they told me to decrease my overall dose of Armour which is 90 mgs. by 15-30 mgs.

Instead of that, today I took only 12.5 Iodoral and am supplementing with Iosol and Lugol's to stay at 50 mgs. By afternoon, my pulses and temps are dropping, which is according to Flechas what will happen from too much Armour.

..

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[Guest guest]

Posted by: "Gracia" circe@... graciabee

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:19 am (PST)

>>Hi DahliaI meant to get back to you about this.I don't understand why you are taking Iosol and Lugols too! Iosol is only iodine and you may be needing more iodide. I really felt a million % better on 25mg Iodoral 2X a day. Plus enough cortef you should be fine. then you can find how much Armour you need.>>

Hi Gracia,

thanks for responding to my queries!

Iodoral is definitely doing something to my ability to take Armour Thyroid. My pulse and temp drop after taking my afternoon dose of Armour. Goes back up when I add the second dose of Iodoral. Flechas advised adding 12.5 mg Iodoral every 2-3 weeks. And to back off the Armour.

So in order to stay at total daily dose of iodine of 50 mg., I'm also using Iosol (dropped Lugol's). I'm up to 1 Iodoral twice a day. (25 mgs.)

Sorry if this is confusing ;-)

Best,

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

Hi Dahlia,

> Iodoral is definitely doing something to my ability to take Armour

> Thyroid. My pulse and temp drop after taking my afternoon dose of

> Armour. Goes back up when I add the second dose of Iodoral. Flechas

> advised adding 12.5 mg Iodoral every 2-3 weeks. And to back off the

> Armour.

>

> So in order to stay at total daily dose of iodine of 50 mg., I'm also

> using Iosol (dropped Lugol's). I'm up to 1 Iodoral twice a day. (25

> mgs.)

It is interesting that you are using 2 and sometimes 3 forms of iodine.

Is there a reason you are trying to switch to Iodoral from Iosol and

Lugols? Does Flechas recommend Iodoral over the other two?

Thanks & take care,

Sharon

[Guest guest]

>

> It is interesting that you are using 2 and sometimes 3 forms of

iodine.

> Is there a reason you are trying to switch to Iodoral from Iosol and

> Lugols? Does Flechas recommend Iodoral over the other two?

>

> Thanks & take care,

> Sharon

>

Hi Sharon,

Yes, Flechas said, " I can't tell what you're absorbing with the Lugol's

but I know what you'll be absorbing with Iodoral. " I was only taking

the Iosol because it had no potassium iodide in it. Now that I seem to

be able to tolerate sski, I'm trying to get to 50 mgs. on Iodoral. It

seems to be making a big difference.

Best,

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

> Hi Sharon,

> Yes, Flechas said, " I can't tell what you're absorbing with the

Lugol's

> but I know what you'll be absorbing with Iodoral. "

This is an important question as far as I am concerned. When I first

read this I thought there must be some kind of marker in the Iodoral.

Far out? Who knows. I would certainly appreciate if anyone

interacting with Flechas would ask him why that is. I think it might

help lots of people here.

Thanks,

Abbe

[Guest guest]

My guess is

that with Lugol's the drops are not of consistent size so he doesn’t know

exactly how much iodine you are getting while with the Odoral, it is a specific

dose.

Kallie

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Abbe

Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006

5:47 PM

iodine

Subject: Fw: Re: Rind and

iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

> Hi Sharon,

> Yes, Flechas said, " I can't tell what you're absorbing with the

Lugol's

> but I know what you'll be absorbing with Iodoral. "

[Guest guest]

In that case, wouldn't he have said " I can't tell what you're

*dosing* with Lugol's but I know what's you'll be dosing with

Iodoral. " ?

Absorption is a different issue from dosing. I think a clinician

would not confuse the two meanings. Unless someone is mis-

remembering/mis-quoting Dr.F.?

> My guess is that with Lugol's the drops are not of consistent size

so he doesn't know exactly how much iodine you are getting while

with the Odoral, it is a specific dose.

> Kallie

[Guest guest]

>>Posted by: "jtb14789" jtb14789@... jtb14789

Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:10 pm (PST)

In that case, wouldn't he have said "I can't tell what you're *dosing* with Lugol's but I know what's you'll be dosing with Iodoral." ?Absorption is a different issue from dosing. I think a clinician would not confuse the two meanings. Unless someone is mis-remembering/mis-quoting Dr.F.?>>

Hi ,

No, Flechas was speaking to me during a phone consult and he specified *absorption* not dose, potency, etc. I took him to mean he knew *exactly* what went into Iodoral and how it would be absorbed, at what rates, etc. Perhaps there is variation in the way the Lugol's is made up, its potency, differing rates of absorption--I don't know, some other variations??

Best regards,

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

Posted by: "Abbe" abbe_online@... abbe_online

Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:55 pm (PST)

> Yes, Flechas said, "I can't tell what you're absorbing with the Lugol's > but I know what you'll be absorbing with Iodoral." >This is an important question as far as I am concerned. When I first >read this I thought there must be some kind of marker in the Iodoral. >Far out? Who knows. I would certainly appreciate if anyone >interacting with Flechas would ask him why that is. I think it might >help lots of people here.

Hi Abbe,

Sorry for the delay in responding, just saw this.

I don't know what you mean by "some kind of marker" in the Iodoral, but I do agree that this is an important question and if Lynn doesn't get the answer on her visit, I will try to find out next time I speak with his office.]

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

>

> > Yes, Flechas said, " I can't tell what you're absorbing with the

> Lugol's

> > but I know what you'll be absorbing with Iodoral. "

>

> >This is an important question as far as I am concerned. When I

first

> >read this I thought there must be some kind of marker in the

Iodoral.

> >Far out? Who knows. I would certainly appreciate if anyone

> >interacting with Flechas would ask him why that is. I think it

might

> >help lots of people here.

>

> Hi Abbe,

> Sorry for the delay in responding, just saw this.

> I don't know what you mean by " some kind of marker " in the

Iodoral, but I

> do agree that this is an important question and if Lynn doesn't

get the

> answer on her visit, I will try to find out next time I speak with

his

> office.]

> Dahlia

>

Hi Dahlia,

It was just a thought and I do not know if it makes any sense. But,

by marker I meant some ingredient they use to make measuring easier

or more reliabilbe.

Abbe

[Guest guest]

>

> >From: " Abbe " <abbe_online@...>

>

> >It was just a thought and I do not know if it makes any sense. But,

> >by marker I meant some ingredient they use to make measuring easier

> >or more reliabilbe.

>

> As in does Flesha's just know how much you absorb from Iodoral

because he

> profits from its sale, or because it's really better than Lugol's?

>

> Skipper

This kind of response is so common from you Skipper that it makes me

wonder who you are ripping off.

Abbe

[Guest guest]

If this wasn't so serious your message would certainly be fuel for a

hearty laugh.

What does a person, like you, who does not have either part or all

of their thyroid and tells people on an email list who do have one

to do what they do know about 'logic' or 'deductive reasoning'?

(rhetorical)

Abbe

>

>

> It's pretty darned good logic and deductive reasoning, and I am

saying this as a philosphy major. Every once in a while he can be a

PITA.

> Gracia

>

> >From: " Abbe " <abbe_online@...>

>

> > > As in does Flesha's just know how much you absorb from

Iodoral

> >because he

> > > profits from its sale, or because it's really better than

Lugol's?

> > >

> > > Skipper

> >

> >

> >This kind of response is so common from you Skipper that it

makes me

> >wonder who you are ripping off.

> >

> >Abbe

>

> I wasn't even being particularly insulting.

>

>

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