Re: Question to ponder - Iodine and Autoimmune thyroid disease

[Guest guest]

Maybe the unanswered question here is...did you have Hashimoto's

Disease? It is my understanding that having thyroid antibodies does

not necessarily indicate Hashimoto's Disease unless there are other

indicators of autoimmune thyroid disease.

cindi

>

> I did have antibodies prior to my thyroid removal and for a short

time

> afterward. I have had no issues taking 100 mgs other than detoxing.

[Guest guest]

I think maybe you misunderstood my point...or maybe I'm missing yours?

but i meant that when someone has been diagnosed with cancer, I think

iodine is a heck of a good treatment.

And that the iodine recommendations may be far higher.

the analogy...crude as it is...is that folks don't take chemo for

everyday purposes...but they do for cancer. they use drastic

measures. and although chemo for a non-cancer person would not be

appropriate, it is a protocol for cancer.

now i'm not in favor of chemo, but the point is..a newly diagnosed

cancer patient may really need mega mega doses of iodine...and

their " protocol " imo would be different from the norm of most folks.

cindi

>

> Maybe, but if someone would have given me this info, I would have

taken the

> iodine--hashis or not--BEFORE I had my thyroid removed.

(Apparently, I had

> a RAGING case of it.) So, maybe cancer is a different issue to

you, but not

> to me. I was developing it over several years when the correct

amount of

> iodine and selenium, and a few other changes, would have healed my

thyroid.

> That's very serious, and shouldn't be ignored just because I'm one

of those

> pesky cancer survivors. lol

>

> I would much rather have a thyroid with hashis and take the iodine

than go

> through my current health problems now. I personally, don't want

to put

> myself in a " cancer " category. If the iodine can heal me after

cancer, why

> couldn't it do the same for someone in a less severe circumstance?

[Guest guest]

You are missing my point which is that if I had taken 50-100 mg iodoral

BEFORE I had cancer, I would have been able to avoid it because my thyroid

could have been improved or healed.

----- Original Message ----- >

> the analogy...crude as it is...is that folks don't take chemo for

> everyday purposes...but they do for cancer. they use drastic

> measures. and although chemo for a non-cancer person would not be

> appropriate, it is a protocol for cancer.

> now i'm not in favor of chemo, but the point is..a newly diagnosed

> cancer patient may really need mega mega doses of iodine...and

> their " protocol " imo would be different from the norm of most folks.

> cindi

>

[Guest guest]

Carol,

you have summed it up totally. And what you present is pretty much

the conclusions I've come to over time as I've observed and studied

the issue.

but first of all, we have to ask when a new person arrives on a forum

to discus iodine:

Do you have autoimmune thyroid disease?

and this is often not asked or considered.

cindi

>

>

>

> FOUR possibilities come to mind here.

> You could get a Hashi-hypo person who has:

>

> 1. " shriveled up " thyroid + no Graves/TSI antibodies.

> This person has the BEST chance of doing well on high iodine.

>

> 2. shriveled up thyroid + Graves/TSI antibodies.

> This person has a more unpredictable course with high iodine,

> due to the Graves/TSI antibodies.

>

> 3. functioning thyroid + no Graves/TSI antibodies.

> This person has a more unpredictable course with high iodine,

> due to the functioning thyroid. Might do better than #2 however

> if feedback loops came into play to allow toleration of the

> high amount of iodine.

>

> 4. functioning thyroid + Graves/TSI antibodies.

> This person has the WORST chance of doing well on high iodine.

[Guest guest]

it could be in any number of skin disorders...

cindi

>

> Cindi,

> >

> > ŒTSH receptor antibodies can target the skin for example. Œ

> >

> What happens in this case? How does it affect the skin?

[Guest guest]

That is an unproven statement however.

cindi

>

> You are missing my point which is that if I had taken 50-100 mg

iodoral

> BEFORE I had cancer, I would have been able to avoid it because my

thyroid

> could have been improved or healed.

[Guest guest]

OK Here's the chicken or egg question.

Gluten sensitivity is very common in people with heavy metal toxicity

,mercury in particular.Most Autistic children are gluten sensitive and

do better when given a gluten free diet.So if a person has gluten

sensitivity ,they need to be tested for heavy metals/mercury.The

problem with testing for mercury is that it is very inaccurate and

hard to find a true result.Hair tests as I stated in the last post

don't always show metals but if calcium is high and lithium low then

there is mercury,most people don't know this and when they get a hair

test back that shows no mercury,they figure they are OK.Cutler has a

book specifically geared to finding hidden toxicities in hair tests.

Here's the chicken /egg question.

Is the mercury causing the gluten sensitivity that causes the AID or

is mercury causing the AID and gluten is just another part of the

equation.

I never had antibodies till I took DMSA to chelate mercury.Right after

I did this my antibodies were off the charts.I'm getting tested again

soon to see where I am at.

The other thing for me was that 50mcg of Iodoral took me downhill till

I was losing a lot of hair and had to double my dose of T3.

My lab shows my T3 way too high but Lowe says this is common when

treating with T3.Most drs would immediately put me on a much lower

dose of T3.I think labs are very limited and if you treat the lab test

and not the patient.....I wonder if the labs feel better....LOL

>

> Hi Chantal

> I wanted to interject that autoimmunes (AID) can also be caused by

> undiagnosed gluten-sensitivity. This may even fit under the category of

> environmental toxins, I don't know. I just got off the phone with

the lab

> that did my testing for celiac, and she explained it so GOOD! But no

way can

> I repeat it.

> --

> Warmest Regards,

> Robin Little

>

> I have a book called Autoimmune Diseases and the Environmental

> Triggers.I believe most AID today is caused by toxins.

> .....

> Chantal

>

[Guest guest]

Well maybe. Some of us have not been able to heal our thyroid with iodine

as much as we would like to.

Irene

At 05:20 PM 5/1/2008, you wrote:

>You are missing my point which is that if I had taken 50-100 mg iodoral

>BEFORE I had cancer, I would have been able to avoid it because my thyroid

>could have been improved or healed.

[Guest guest]

If I may, I have an opinion here based on real life experience... on the subject of potentially dodging the cancer bullet. In 2003 I was diagnosed with Graves, so I was advised to nuke my thyroid and go on synthroid forever. I didn't fully understand the science but my gut told me that the thyroid was doing what it was suppose to do and it wasn't my thyroid's fault that it was being attacked so I went on PTU. One year later I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer - in the course of post surgical research I discovered PTU on a list of carcinogens. I asked my endo if there was anything other than antithyroid drugs I could take, he said no. (btw I had a goiter which I believe can be

remedied with iodine) I didn't know any better so I went on methimazole for the next 3 yrs. Then I got dx. with breast cancer, 2007. It's my opinion that had my endo known anything about iodine and perhaps suggested it back in 2003 I may have gotten enough iodine in my system to resolve the ovarian cysts that are a precursor to OC. and/or the FBD that is a precursor to BC. but then I wouldn't be up to my eyeballs in all this new learning now. I try to keep a sense of humor about things but if I spend much time thinking about it it really p*sses me off!I hope that there will be understanding in the group re the higher emotions in those of us who recognize what might have been ... Re: Re: Question to ponder - Iodine and Autoimmune thyroid diseaseSo is speculating that a doctor is harming patients based on things you have

supposedly heard. The FACT is that patients ARE healing their thyroids as

folks have stated here this week.

----- Original Message -----

> That is an unproven statement however.

> cindi

>

>

>>

>> You are missing my point which is that if I had taken 50-100 mg

> iodoral

>> BEFORE I had cancer, I would have been able to avoid it because my

> thyroid

>> could have been improved or healed.

>

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing . I am so sorry you were treated that way and experienced poor medical "care". My OB/GYN told me that my thyroid was swollen right before I found out I was pregnant. Had I been given iodine I am sure I would never have gotten to goiter and full blown cancer. I must have had antibodies at that time but they ran the standard TSH / T4 labs. I had chronic adult onset asthma (also sign of thyroid disease), recurrent shingles (low immune indicator), and more. It makes me mad too that I could have dodged the bullet of all this mess but then God had a bigger plan for me. I am loving my life now that I have it back and Dr. Brownstein was the one that helped me get it back.

Re: Re: Question to ponder - Iodine and Autoimmune thyroid disease

So is speculating that a doctor is harming patients based on things you have supposedly heard. The FACT is that patients ARE healing their thyroids as folks have stated here this week.----- Original Message ----- > That is an unproven statement however.> cindi>> >>>> You are missing my point which is that if I had taken 50-100 mg> iodoral>> BEFORE I had cancer, I would have been able to avoid it because my> thyroid>> could have been improved or healed.>

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

And the fact is...is that folks are also having Negative reactions to

iodine. Understanding and discussing both the positive and

negative...and even the in between...without flaming someone...is

critical to our understanding.

cindi

> >>

> >> You are missing my point which is that if I had taken 50-100 mg

> > iodoral

> >> BEFORE I had cancer, I would have been able to avoid it because

my

> > thyroid

> >> could have been improved or healed.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

my question - and i don't know the answer....is it low iodine and/or

low T3 that contributes to breast or ovarian cancer?

cindi

>

> If I may, I have an opinion here based on real life experience...

on the subject of potentially dodging the cancer bullet. In 2003 I

was diagnosed with Graves, so I was advised to nuke my thyroid and go

on synthroid forever. I didn't fully understand the science but my

gut told me that the thyroid was doing what it was suppose to do and

it wasn't my thyroid's fault that it was being attacked so I went

on PTU. One year later I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer - in the

course of post surgical research I discovered PTU on a list of

carcinogens. I asked my endo if there was anything other than

antithyroid drugs I could take, he said no. (btw I had a goiter which

I believe can be remedied with iodine) I didn't know any better so I

went on methimazole for the next 3 yrs. Then I got dx. with breast

cancer, 2007. It's my opinion that had my endo known anything about

iodine and perhaps suggested it back in 2003 I may have gotten enough

iodine in my system to

> resolve the ovarian cysts that are a precursor to OC. and/or the

FBD that is a precursor to BC. but then I wouldn't be up to my

eyeballs in all this new learning now. I try to keep a sense of humor

about things but if I spend much time thinking about it it really

p*sses me off!

> I hope that there will be understanding in the group re the higher

emotions in those of us who recognize what might have been ...

[Guest guest]

I have a hair test to do on my daughter. Her doc thinks she will turn up with

heavy metals

as her urine test came back with her spilling zinc. He says that a sign of

heavy metal

damage, if I'm remembering correctly. I don't doubt that, but another reason I

wanted to

do the hair test is that she's a Type 1 diabetic and there's zinc in the

insulin, so I'm not

sure if that's not affecting the urine test.

I'm interested in which comes first also. My daughter's gluten symptoms

preceeded the

Type 1 symptoms and diagnosis, but the enlarged thyroid was also there at the

Type 1

diagnosis. The gluten symptoms were much earlier on. She had a sister who died

at the

age of 5 from Aplastic Anemia, idiopathic cause accordingly to her doctors,

heavily tied to

toxin damage according to the doc we use now.

How high did your antibodies get? Did it cause symptoms for you? If so, what?

Detox - Has anyone here tried NCD (Natural Cellular Defense)?

Linn

> >

> > Hi Chantal

> > I wanted to interject that autoimmunes (AID) can also be caused by

> > undiagnosed gluten-sensitivity. This may even fit under the category of

> > environmental toxins, I don't know. I just got off the phone with

> the lab

> > that did my testing for celiac, and she explained it so GOOD! But no

> way can

> > I repeat it.

> > --

> > Warmest Regards,

> > Robin Little

> >

> > I have a book called Autoimmune Diseases and the Environmental

> > Triggers.I believe most AID today is caused by toxins.

> > .....

> > Chantal

> >

>

[Guest guest]

To Cindi and , I am saying this out of respect for the knowledge and opinions you both have, can we move on from this back and forth, tit for tat? I understand where you both stand on this topic and guess others do as well. Thank you, cindi22595 <cindi22595@...> wrote: And the fact is...is that folks are also having Negative reactions to iodine. Understanding and discussing both the

positive and negative...and even the in between...without flaming someone...is critical to our understanding. cindi> >>> >> You are missing my point which is that if I had taken 50-100 mg> >

iodoral> >> BEFORE I had cancer, I would have been able to avoid it because my> > thyroid> >> could have been improved or healed.> >>

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I tried NCD and it helped with flare ups while chelating but I wouldn't say

it is a good way to chelate.

Steph

Re: Question to ponder - Iodine and Autoimmune thyroid

disease

>I have a hair test to do on my daughter. Her doc thinks she will turn up

>with heavy metals

> as her urine test came back with her spilling zinc. He says that a sign

> of heavy metal

> damage, if I'm remembering correctly. I don't doubt that, but another

> reason I wanted to

> do the hair test is that she's a Type 1 diabetic and there's zinc in the

> insulin, so I'm not

> sure if that's not affecting the urine test.

>

> I'm interested in which comes first also. My daughter's gluten symptoms

> preceeded the

> Type 1 symptoms and diagnosis, but the enlarged thyroid was also there at

> the Type 1

> diagnosis. The gluten symptoms were much earlier on. She had a sister

> who died at the

> age of 5 from Aplastic Anemia, idiopathic cause accordingly to her

> doctors, heavily tied to

> toxin damage according to the doc we use now.

>

> How high did your antibodies get? Did it cause symptoms for you? If so,

> what?

>

> Detox - Has anyone here tried NCD (Natural Cellular Defense)?

>

> Linn

>

>

>> >

>> > Hi Chantal

>> > I wanted to interject that autoimmunes (AID) can also be caused by

>> > undiagnosed gluten-sensitivity. This may even fit under the category of

>> > environmental toxins, I don't know. I just got off the phone with

>> the lab

>> > that did my testing for celiac, and she explained it so GOOD! But no

>> way can

>> > I repeat it.

>> > --

>> > Warmest Regards,

>> > Robin Little

>> >

>> > I have a book called Autoimmune Diseases and the Environmental

>> > Triggers.I believe most AID today is caused by toxins.

>> > .....

>> > Chantal

>> >

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My best guess is that it is more directly related to the iodine. Since in both cases there is a condition that is remedied with iodine (i.e. polycystic ovarian syndrome / fibrocystic breast disease) Theorectically iodine sufficiency would have prevented the ensuing cancers. Re: Question to ponder - Iodine and Autoimmune thyroid disease

my question - and i don't know the answer....is it low iodine and/or

low T3 that contributes to breast or ovarian cancer?

cindi

>

> If I may, I have an opinion here based on real life experience.. .

on the subject of potentially dodging the cancer bullet. In 2003 I

was diagnosed with Graves, so I was advised to nuke my thyroid and go

on synthroid forever. I didn't fully understand the science but my

gut told me that the thyroid was doing what it was suppose to do and

it wasn't my thyroid's fault that it was being attacked so I went

on PTU. One year later I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer - in the

course of post surgical research I discovered PTU on a list of

carcinogens. I asked my endo if there was anything other than

antithyroid drugs I could take, he said no. (btw I had a goiter which

I believe can be remedied with iodine) I didn't know any better so I

went on methimazole for the next 3 yrs. Then I got dx. with breast

cancer, 2007. It's my opinion that had my endo known anything about

iodine and perhaps suggested it back in 2003 I may have gotten enough

iodine in my system to

> resolve the ovarian cysts that are a precursor to OC. and/or the

FBD that is a precursor to BC. but then I wouldn't be up to my

eyeballs in all this new learning now. I try to keep a sense of humor

about things but if I spend much time thinking about it it really

p*sses me off!

> I hope that there will be understanding in the group re the higher

emotions in those of us who recognize what might have been ...

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

and yet I had ovarian cysts disappear with Armour....which would tell

me low T3.

And I have read a study linking low T3 to breast cancer.

but I still am trying to find out why the iodine in armour isn't

useable by the body (according to steph per brownstein).

because if iodine is in armour....

cindi

>

> My best guess is that it is more directly related to the iodine.

Since in both cases there is a condition that is remedied with iodine

(i.e. polycystic ovarian syndrome / fibrocystic breast disease)

Theorectically iodine sufficiency would have prevented the ensuing

cancers.

[Guest guest]

I'm interested in the NCD for my daughter. She doesn't swallow pills and is

being a little " pill "

about learning how. I have taught a bunch of other people's kids how to swallow

pills, I

know some great little tricks for doing it, but she's got a real fear of trying

and it's not

something I want to push and make worse. It's sorta ludicrous, the little

stinker doesn't even

wince at needles or poking herself but is scared to death that a pill is going

to get stuck in

her throat. (Relates to a scary experience when she was very young.)

Linn

>

> I tried NCD and it helped with flare ups while chelating but I wouldn't say

> it is a good way to chelate.

>

> Steph

>

[Guest guest]

" ladybugsandbees " <ladybugsandbees@...> wrote:

> One question - if excess iodine is implicated

> in Autoimmune thyroid disease, why is it that

> as iodine levels have dropping in our soil

> and our food in recent years that AIT had increase?

I was doing a lot of shellfish, salmon,

and spirulina by the heaping teaspoonful in smoothies just before

I went into Hashi-toxicosis. This was about 20 yrs ago now.

I probably had hashi antibodies for several yrs previously

and been mildly hypothyroid, undiagnosed,

but the high iodine and selenium tipped the balance and all

hell broke loose. Because immunity been affected by low thyroid

levels, I had all manner of systemic bacterial, viral, fungal

infections also around that time. Docs were completely

mystified. ENT finally suggested hashi when he saw my splotchy

red neck due to thyroid inflammation. Everyone's a bit different.

Carol W.

willis_protocols

[Guest guest]

at a future date I will pull out my past test results and have a look - I'm suppose to be doing homework ... I don't know anything at all about armour since I'm hyper Re: Question to ponder - Iodine and Autoimmune thyroid disease

and yet I had ovarian cysts disappear with Armour....which would tell

me low T3.

And I have read a study linking low T3 to breast cancer.

but I still am trying to find out why the iodine in armour isn't

useable by the body (according to steph per brownstein).

because if iodine is in armour....

cindi

>

> My best guess is that it is more directly related to the iodine.

Since in both cases there is a condition that is remedied with iodine

(i.e. polycystic ovarian syndrome / fibrocystic breast disease)

Theorectically iodine sufficiency would have prevented the ensuing

cancers.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

My kids won't swallow pills either. Dawson will chew his armour but

Iodoral, Selenium are issues. Now he has another one to do. We take

applesauce and I crush the pills and put them in the applesauce. It works

for both kids. My 6 & 8 year old.

Steph

Re: Question to ponder - Iodine and Autoimmune thyroid

disease

> I'm interested in the NCD for my daughter. She doesn't swallow pills and

> is being a little " pill "

> about learning how. I have taught a bunch of other people's kids how to

> swallow pills, I

> know some great little tricks for doing it, but she's got a real fear of

> trying and it's not

> something I want to push and make worse. It's sorta ludicrous, the little

> stinker doesn't even

> wince at needles or poking herself but is scared to death that a pill is

> going to get stuck in

> her throat. (Relates to a scary experience when she was very young.)

>

> Linn

>

>

>>

>> I tried NCD and it helped with flare ups while chelating but I wouldn't

>> say

>> it is a good way to chelate.

>>

>> Steph

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

absolutely michelle.

thank you for the sincere statement.

i had written steph earlier and told her i intended to fade out of the

forum because my frustration at not being able to have pro and con

discussion sometimes just gets me...and I feel like I end up being

unkind or harsh. And that is not something I want to be. I did want

to learn as much as possible about AITD and iodine. So yes, it's

ended.

cindi

>

> To Cindi and ,

>

> I am saying this out of respect for the knowledge and opinions you

both have, can we move on from this back and forth, tit for tat? I

understand where you both stand on this topic and guess others do as

well.

[Guest guest]

" cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> wrote:

>

> my question - and i don't know the answer....

> is it low iodine and/or

> low T3 that contributes to breast or ovarian cancer?

> cindi

There are genetic, estrogen factors, TCM " stuck liver Qi " ,

detox, metabolism by the various P450 enzymes,

and many other things that can contribute here.

Proper cell differentiation is the ideal here, and optimal

THYROID is essential for that. Some amount of Iodine that

varies among individuals may be a contributing factor,

as well as various other nutrients.

Nutrition and hormones influence How the genes express.

Carol W.

willis_protocols

[Guest guest]

My TG was 2705 and my TPO was 1452.

I had been on 2 gr Armour for 20 some years and doing fine but after

amalgam removal I started with Fibro and CFS took a few years to

figure out that mercury had caused more thyroid problems but it wasn't

till DMSA that I had antibodies.

Sounds like you have a good Dr.Can I ask who and where?

I know several people taking NCD.A woman with MS who has never had

luck with any type of detox is doing very well on NCD.Some people

react negatively and some do extremely well.Like iodine I guess it is

very individual.

Chantal

> > >

> > > Hi Chantal

> > > I wanted to interject that autoimmunes (AID) can also be caused by

> > > undiagnosed gluten-sensitivity. This may even fit under the

category of

> > > environmental toxins, I don't know. I just got off the phone with

> > the lab

> > > that did my testing for celiac, and she explained it so GOOD! But no

> > way can

> > > I repeat it.

> > > --

> > > Warmest Regards,

> > > Robin Little

> > >

> > > I have a book called Autoimmune Diseases and the Environmental

> > > Triggers.I believe most AID today is caused by toxins.

> > > .....

> > > Chantal

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wallick <ltwallick@...> wrote:

>

> My best guess is that it is more directly related

> to the iodine. Since in both cases there is a

> condition that is remedied with iodine (i.e.

> polycystic ovarian syndrome / fibrocystic breast disease)

> Theorectically iodine sufficiency would have prevented

> the ensuing cancers.

>

High iodine yields progesterone. It be the resulting

progesterone that's helping resolve these conditions as well.

If you get progesterone indirectly iodine, then

that's one way to get it. :-)

Carol W.

willis_protocols