Re: Help - High FT3 with normal FT4???

[Guest guest]

Just to add one more bit, I didn't take my Armour the morning of the

blood tests, so that's not the reason the FT3 is high.

[Guest guest]

HI

Back around 2 years ago I was taking 1.75 grains Armor with no problems and normal blood results, but still felt hypo. I'd gradually upped my dose to 2.75 grains and felt a LOT better (at 3.25, I felt a touch hyper). By that time I was no longer seeing the helpful (pro-Armor) private doctor I'd been seeing before so didn't get new bloods done. I've been very happy on 2.75 grains for quite some time and don't feel in the least bit hyper.I've recently had bloods done that showed high cholesterol, so my GP did an ECG just as a precaution. It came back with arrythmias (which I've been aware of for a while - I tend to get a touch of tachycardia when standing up and when doing exercise, but I had that even when I was hypo) and an imcomplete right bundle branch block (minor, so not a big deal) - both of which are apparently common with hyperthyroidism. So my GP did a thyroid test...

Has your GP given you anything for your high cholesterol. This happens a lot to hypothyroid sufferers who are not yet on quite the treatment they need. You can help to bring down your high cholesterol by taking high doses of CoEnzymeQ10 and high doses of niacin (Vit B3) - get the non-flushing kind. There are many reasons you could now be experiencing tachycardia, and if you have been following the correspondence on this forum, you will know that these could be caused because you may have low adrenal reserve or you have candida albicans. You also might have low ferritin (stored iron) level, so you need to get your GP to check this out. Have you also thought about taking some magnesium when you have this tachycardia - it helps many people when they get them through taking Armour?The results that have come back are a bit strange:TSH <0.02 (0.27 - 4.20)FT4 15.9 (11.8 - 24.6)FT3 7.4 (3.9 - 6.8)I'm happy with the low TSH - I'd expect that on total thyroid replacement. But given that I'm on a moderately high dose of Armor, why is my FT4 below average? And given that FT4 is below average, how on earth has my FT3 ended up high!!!

Yes, youor FT3 does seem a little high, but this happens a lot to many of us taking Armour. I have just had my blood tested, and I had two different tests for my endocrinologist to see what is happening when I have taken my Armour and another to see what the results are when I have not taken Armour for 24 hours. The Free T3 after taking Armour showed at 9.6 and as yet, I have not got the results back from the test I had done after NOT taking Armour, but this is really not something I am particularly worried about because I do not get any palpitations. Glad to hear you didn't take your Armour before you were tested though. Have you thought of cutting back on the dose you are taking now and just take 2 grains and see how you feel, and then add a quarter of a grain after 4 weeks and then add another quarter of a grain after another 4 weeks and see if that helps. I am positive you would know whether or not you felt hyper or not, and this is the problem that many GP's do not understand and it is they who get panicky rather than the patient with a high reading. I'd assumed that if I was hyper, I'd know about it, but while I have slightly high blood pressure (which I also had when hypo), my heart rate is if anything low at times (resting anywhere from 50-60) and I don't have any of the mental symptoms such as euphoria that I'd normally associate with being hyper.

Let me know if you have had the 24 hour adrenal salivary profile done recently and also, have you done the glass test for Candida. You take a glass of water to bed with you and first thing in the morning, spit into the top of the water and see if there are tendrils that float down towards the bottom of the glass, or the water goes cloudy. If this happens, you could be suffering with candida. Do buy some magnesium to help with any palpitaitons you may have, it simply could be a shortage of this one mineral. How is your Zinc and Selenium intake?Anyone else seen this kind of thing or can anyone explain why a lowish FT4 can lead to a high FT3? Any help and advice much appreciated.

You might need a little more T4 as I do to get the balance of thyroid hormone intake right for you. The amount of hormones in Armour are not the right dose for everybody and some of us need to add some T3 and others some extra T3.

Luv - Sheila

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Armour is pig thyroid and a pig has a higher ratio( 4 to 1) of T4

to T3 that a human has 9 to 1. for those of us who cannot convert much if

any T4 to T3 this is an advantage, but if you can convert to some extent

then the answer may be to reduce the Armour slightly and replace with T4,

which will raise the T4 and reduce the T3 levels to bring it to more a human

ratio.

Subject: Help - High FT3 with normal FT4???

Hi all,

So my GP did a thyroid test...

The results that have come back are a bit strange:

TSH <0.02 (0.27 - 4.20)

FT4 15.9 (11.8 - 24.6)

FT3 7.4 (3.9 - 6.8)

I'm happy with the low TSH - I'd expect that on total thyroid

replacement. But given that I'm on a moderately high dose of Armor,

why is my FT4 below average? And given that FT4 is below average, how

on earth has my FT3 ended up high!!!

Anyone else seen this kind of thing or can anyone explain why a

lowish FT4 can lead to a high FT3? Any help and advice much

appreciated.

------------------------------------

Messages are not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always

consult with a suitably qualified practitioner before changing

medication.

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments.

I've seen my GP again today and he's done some further tests on my

heart including an ultrasound. He's happy that my heart is working

fine and says that the branch bundle block is extremely minor and at

a level that's normal in some people. So apart from the tachycardia,

my heart is fine. He also doesn't think the tachycardia is anything

to do with thyroid levels, but more likely linked to my supposed CFS.

My GP has suggested playing around with the thyroid dosing a bit to

find what works and retesting in 3 months - so that's what I'm going

to do.

> for those of us who cannot convert much if any T4 to T3 this is an

> advantage, but if you can convert to some extent then the answer

> may be to reduce the Armour slightly and replace with T4,

> which will raise the T4 and reduce the T3 levels to bring it to

> more a human ratio.

I think that's probably very relevant to me. When I first started

out, I had a T4->T3 conversion problem (the NPTech urine test showed

quite a poor T3/T4 ratio at 0.42 against a reference range of 0.6-

1.0).

The specialist I saw in London found that my gut function was very

poor and that as a result blood levels of a number of vitamins and

trace minerals was low, which I think may have been contributing to

the poor T4->T3 conversion. He put me on various supplements, but

found that my gut function was so poor that even on high dose

supplements, I was still low on some things. He then put me on intra-

venous supplements of the relevant minerals and vitamins, which I've

been on ever since. I've been able to gradually decrease the

frequency of the IV treatments over two years and have now finally

come off them (hopefully for good). So I guess that probably tells me

that my gut function has improved a lot and that I'm no longer

deficient in those things. So it doesn't entirely surprise me if my

T4->T3 conversion is now much better leaving me just with the

hypothyroidism to deal with.

I've decided to swap onto 100ug thyroxine plus 1 grain Armour and

I'll then play around with dosing near that until I find a dose that

feels right before getting the blood tests done again (not that I'm

entirely hung up on blood tests, but it doesn't hurt to check against

them). If that doesn't work, I might end up being better just on

thyroxine alone, but I'd prefer to keep some component of Armour in

the mix so that I get the T2/T1 etc.

Once again, many thanks for the help,

[Guest guest]

Hi

I personally think it is the T2 in Armour that is the magic ingredient because people who have been on synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy who have not done well and switched to Armour have found Armour works for them. Read the TPA-UK response to the BTA Statement on Armour (in our Files and on our website) about T2.

Good luck.

luv - Sheila

.... but I'd prefer to keep some component of Armour in the mix so that I get the T2/T1 etc.Once again, many thanks for the help,

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

One reason for your high FT3 may be that you are not getting the thyroid to your cells. You need further tests to determine this. It is pointless taking more T4 if this is the case as this will not help. Taking more T3 in any form if you are not getting it to your cells will only weaken your adrenals. You may well need more adrenal support (hc) to get the thyroid to your cells.

Val

> for those of us who cannot convert much if any T4 to T3 this is an> advantage, but if you can convert to some extent then the answer> may be to reduce the Armour slightly and replace with T4,> which will raise the T4 and reduce the T3 levels to bring it to> more a human ratio.I think that's probably very relevant to me. When I first started out, I had a T4->T3 conversion problem (the NPTech urine test showed quite a poor T3/T4 ratio at 0.42 against a reference range of 0.6-1.0).

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

I found your comments very interesting as I have never ever been able

to raise my FreeT4 no matter what my dose or meds. Can you expand on

this subject please. I have just recently increased my pred (dont do

well with HC) and at last found relief from fibro pain, however, I

would appreciate any insight you can offer in more detail about the

lack of conversion

jenny freeman

>

> One reason for your high FT3 may be that you are not getting the

thyroid to your cells. You need further tests to determine this. It

is pointless taking more T4 if this is the case as this will not help.

Taking more T3 in any form if you are not getting it to your cells

will only weaken your adrenals. You may well need more adrenal

support (hc) to get the thyroid to your cells.

>

>

> I think that's probably very relevant to me. When I first started

> out, I had a T4->T3 conversion problem (the NPTech urine test showed

> quite a poor T3/T4 ratio at 0.42 against a reference range of 0.6-

> 1.0).

>

[Guest guest]

Hi jenny,

My knowledge is limited - I would ask on the NTH adrenal group - Val, there (not me) will be able to explain properly.

Val

Hi Val,I found your comments very interesting as I have never ever been ableto raise my FreeT4 no matter what my dose or meds. Can you expand onthis subject please. I have just recently increased my pred (dont dowell with HC) and at last found relief from fibro pain, however, Iwould appreciate any insight you can offer in more detail about thelack of conversion jenny freeman

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

> One reason for your high FT3 may be that you are not getting the

> thyroid to your cells. You need further tests to determine this.

> It is pointless taking more T4 if this is the case as this will not

> help. Taking more T3 in any form if you are not getting it to your

> cells will only weaken your adrenals. You may well need more

> adrenal support (hc) to get the thyroid to your cells.

I do have some concerns re my HPA axis (although standard tests showed

nothing), but this side of things has improved dramatically in the last

3 years (I went for an 8 mile walk yesterday and survided it reasonably

well for example). I think now my adrenal status is probably not bad

(although not brilliant), so I'm not sure if that would be a good

reason for my T3 to be higher now than it was.

[Guest guest]

HI

In the paper from TPA-UK about T4/T3 combination therapy, you will see there are several instances mentioned regarding the lack of conversion from T4 into T3. The effectiveness of T4 may be reduced in certain circumstances: for example, in conditions such as aging, obesity, disease, stress, exercise, malnutrition, or where toxic substances such as phenols, cadmium, mercury, etc, or other medicines (e.g. propranolol, amiodarone) interfere by stimulating or inhibiting the T4 to T3 conversion. There can also be hormone or trace element deficiencies or excess, (e.g. of T3, GH, insulin, melatonin, zinc, copper, selenium, glucocorticoids, ACTH, oestrogens etc) that may inhibit the conversion of T4 to T3. If only doctors knew!

Luv - Sheila

Hi jenny,

My knowledge is limited - I would ask on the NTH adrenal group - Val, there (not me) will be able to explain properly.

Val

Hi Val,I found your comments very interesting as I have never ever been ableto raise my FreeT4 no matter what my dose or meds. Can you expand onthis subject please. I have just recently increased my pred (dont dowell with HC) and at last found relief from fibro pain, however, Iwould appreciate any insight you can offer in more detail about thelack of conversion jenny freeman

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