Re: Boo hoo and damn! Reverse T3 levels

[Guest guest]

Don't apologise Bob. I just feel sorry for the rabbits!

It is amazing what we learn as we go. In 's case, it appears

that her own research allowed her to help her father.

P

[sorry it's a rabbit study.....but the real live example is on US

Thyroid About forum....we showed this is all true when 's dad

was suspected as being alcoholic...and was refused a liver transplant

at one of the leading international liver transplant centres ~ it

transpired that her dad had haemochromatosis and Hepatitis C and was

myxoedematous ~ he survived this experience, but only just; Kat

insisted that they administer T3 ~ it literally saved his life.]

[Guest guest]

> This is all so difficult to understand. My 24hr thyroid test results

> were.......

>

> T3 - 629 ref range 800-2500

> T4 - 1230 ref range 550-3160

> T3-T4 ratio 0.51 0.5-2.30

>

> So I still don't understand.

For comparison my results, same ranges were:

T3 - 525

T4 - 421

Ratio 1.25

I realise now just how low my T4 is! I don't fully understand either

but I'm just catching up with yesterday's emails and I see there's

quite a long thread about all this which I'm eager to read. So

hopefully it'll shed some light on it all.

x

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,

[[...Reverse T3 has the same molecular structure as T3. However it is a

mirror image of T3 and fits into the receptor upside down. This

prevents the active T3 from binding to the receptor site and

activating the appropriate thyroid response....]]

It's not the 'mirror image' (but close) of T3. RT3 is the different

isomer 3,3',5' -triiodothyronine.

isomer 3,5 ,3' -triiodothyronine (is T3)

The way he T3 fits into its receptor is better than the way RT3 fits.

there is a lid that closes over the molecule, I believe; it doesn't

close properly if the RT3 is present.

best wishes

Bob

see the work of California University workers (Tom Scanlan) re: 3-

iodothyronamine.

The latter molecule opposes the effect of T3 at very low levels.

It is known as a 'trace amine' but the iodine makes it particularly

effective as a trace amine.

I haven't read this paper yet

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/149/6/3037

[Guest guest]

Thanks yet again Bob!

P

ps - I had a bit of trouble getting my head around the paper!

>

It's not the 'mirror image' (but close) of T3. RT3 is the different

> isomer 3,3',5' -triiodothyronine.

> isomer 3,5 ,3' -triiodothyronine (is T3)

>

> The way he T3 fits into its receptor is better than the way RT3

fits.there is a lid that closes over the molecule, I believe; it

doesn't close properly if the RT3 is present.

see the work of California University workers (Tom Scanlan) re: 3-

iodothyronamine.I haven't read this paper yet

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/149/6/3037

[Guest guest]

Hi , Yes, I had androgen blood studies done, but need them

interpreted by my doc next week. Will ask about having 24hr

cortisol done, as I think this is an important test. Your thoughts

are the same as mine re adrenals. I'm treading carefully and have

placed your comments on my list of things to discuss with the doc.

Thanks for your message and for helping me to remember some things

that I'd forgotten (forgetting things = situation normal for me).

Good to know that T3 is available in 1mcg doses. I had 7.5mcg

before and couldn't cope on it.

I appreciate your note.

thanks heaps! (:

P

>

> Hi P,

> Now we go back round the circle to adrenals needing to be

fixed first,

> then maybe you won't get so much RT3 and be able to tolerate the

T3 better-

> if you do decide to try it again I'd be very cautions with only

tiny

> adjustments down in your current meds and raises in T3. I seem to

recall

> that you can get a 1mcg pill if necessary.

>

>

>

> Subject: Re: Boo hoo and damn! Reverse T3

levels

>

> Hi ,

> I had an adverse reaction to using T3 on its own, so Houston, we

have

> a problem.

> P

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I started on Armour last Saturday - on a very low dose. I am still

taking Nutri Adrenal and liquorice tincture - as well as a shed load of

vits etc., (well, it feels like a lot)

When I took 25mg of Cytomel I had a bad reaction on the third day- high

BP, high pulse, feeling weird - so I am hoping Armour will be kinder to

me. I am trying to sneak up on this horrid thyroid problem by starting

with a very low dose.

B

[Guest guest]

> This is what you need to do marlene and Pat to get things put

>straight again. When reverse T3 dominance is diagnosed, it is

>usually treated by prescribing synthetic T3 (Liothyronine) only.

>This reduces the symptoms of low thyroid function and will also

>slow

>TSH production, which in effect reduces the bodies own production

>of T4.

> This ought to be set to music! )

Thanks Sheila. I read this twice, veeeery slowly and I understood it!

I've just taken a reverse T3 test and am awaiting results. I wasn't

sure what it was all about really - I just wanted to cover

everything with the all the tests, so that no stone was unturned.

But should it come back positive showing reverse T3, I will at

leasdt understand what it's all about now and what to do.

Is Cytomel the same as Liothyronine? Because I've had that and had

to stop taking it.

Many thanks

x

[Guest guest]

> This is what you need to do marlene and Pat to get things put

straight again ...

> This ought to be set to music! )

By the band Perfect Thyroid I presume! Yes, there really is one called

that!

x

[Guest guest]

>

> I think it is the ration of FT3 to RT3 which is important, rather

than the actual numbers.

Yes, I think you're right. Thanks for the reminder. I'll look out for

that when I get my results.

x

[Guest guest]

> There may be reasons why you were unable to tolerate the synthetic

>T3 and you need to check these.

> 1) You might have a low ferritin level (stored iron).

>

> 4) You might have Candida Albicans. candida.

>

> 5) You have low adrenal reserve.

>

> 5) You have amalgam fillings

Thanks Sheila. It's still a bit of a mystery as to why I couldn't

tolerate T3. If I had to make a guess out of the reasons you listed

I'd choose adrenals over everything else. But maybe I'll be in for a

surprise when I get my test results back for all the above.

x

[Guest guest]

>

> HI and ,

>

> Both of you have a Free T3 that is far too low. Both your Free T3

>should be somewhere in the top third of the reference range and this

>is the same with your Free T4. Both of you are way below the bottom

>of the reference range and need to adjust your dosage.

Hi Sheila

Trouble is I can't seem to do that without running into trouble. At

present I'm taking nothing while waiting for test results and I see Dr

P again at the beginning of june.

x

[Guest guest]

>

> There's also a good chart showing time course of " T4 T3 RT3 " on

p326

> of Review of Medical Physiology (21stEdn) 2003 Edited by WF Ganong

> (can be 'viewed inside' on Amazon)

Bob, I found the book on Amazon and could see from the index what you

were referring to. Did you mean we have to buy the book to see the

chart? Or is there another way to view it?

Thanks

x

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ,

> If both T4 and T3 are low then there just isn't enough

>T4 to convert in the first place, you won't find out until your T4 is

>well up in it's range, and the T3 fails to rise equally, if you have

>a conversion problem.

Thanks . I was thinking that as long as I converted enough of my

T4 to T3, whatever the amount, that I was ok but I see now that I

really don't have enough T4 to start with.

x

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You just need to register with Amazon to use the 'look inside' feature

best wishes

Bob

> >

> > There's also a good chart showing time course of " T4 T3 RT3 " on

> p326

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ,

>

> You just need to register with Amazon to use the 'look inside'

feature

Oh, thanks Bob. I didn't know you could do that. I'll get onto it

straightaway. Wish I'd known about it years ago!

x