RE: What do I say to the endo now?????

[Guest guest]

Hi

Whether they are normal or not really depends on whether you took

any medication when the tests were done. Did you take any the

morning of the NHS blood tests? Did you take any during the 24 hour

urine test?

Luv

Chris

>

> Hi all, can any one help me

>

> I have received the blood test results I had done on the 15 Jan at

> the hospital. I was told the endo said they are normal. I am seeing

> him again on the 18th and would like some advice on what I can say

to

> him.

>

> Ferritin (10 - 322)....ug/L.......154

> TSH....(0.35 - 5.50)...mu/L.....0.44......*0.26....NYA (what is

NYA)

> FT4....(10 - 22.7)....pmol/L....15.3.....15.9

> FT3....(3.5 - 6.5)...pmol/L......5.1

>

> Below are the results of the 24 urine test I had done last

September via Dr P.

> The results and ranges are not the same as the NHS so I cannot

> compare.

>

> T3 - 629 ref range 800-2500

>

> T4 - 1230 ref range 550-3160

>

> T3-T4 ratio 0.51 0.5-2.30

>

> If my NHS results are normal what am I going to do now?

>

> I am due to see Dr P at the end of April. When I spoke to him this

week he told

> me to up

> my Nutri Adrenal from 4 to 6. I am also taking 6 Nutri thyroid. He

also told

> me to order

> some Cytomel.

>

> I am so worried now. If I am normal why was the 24 hr urine test

for T3 under

> range -

> was it a mistake? Will the endo take that on board or will he just

say that I

> don't need

> medication. If I take the T3 as Dr P says and I don't need it,

will it make me

> ill. I am

> stressed, depressed and tired and feel like crying. I am fed up

with feeling

> less than well

> and now I am thinking that perhaps it is all in my mind and it is

just my age so

> I should

> shut up and put up with it.

>

> I need advice - please.......

>

>

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

[[ T3-T4 ratio 0.51 0.5-2.30 ]]

this ratio is probably being quoted with an invalid decimal place ~

0.5(1) the two results together may have individual precision

something like +/- 3-5% (or worse), hence displaying a result with an

implied precision of better than one part in fifty (100 x 1/50% = 2%)

is pushing the limits too far.

Quoting a result with more than the supportable precision is, to some

extent, unprofessional....in fact, it can get one dismissed from

one's post for not understanding the limits of the methods being

used....

so, the ratio is right at the bottom of the supposed range.

either the T3 is too low (possible) or the T4 is disproportionately

too high.

in either case, it needs to be followed up, and not dismissed as

irrelevant.

Why would they bother to quote this ratio otherwise?

best wishes

Bob

> >

> > Hi all, can any one help me

> >

> > I have received the blood test results I had done on the 15 Jan at

> > the hospital. I was told the endo said they are normal. I am

seeing

> > him again on the 18th and would like some advice on what I can

say

> to

> > him.

> >

> > Ferritin (10 - 322)....ug/L.......154

> > TSH....(0.35 - 5.50)...mu/L.....0.44......*0.26....NYA (what is

> NYA)

> > FT4....(10 - 22.7)....pmol/L....15.3.....15.9

> > FT3....(3.5 - 6.5)...pmol/L......5.1

> >

> > Below are the results of the 24 urine test I had done last

> September via Dr P.

> > The results and ranges are not the same as the NHS so I cannot

> > compare.

> >

> > T3 - 629 ref range 800-2500

> >

> > T4 - 1230 ref range 550-3160

> >

> > T3-T4 ratio 0.51 0.5-2.30

> >

> > If my NHS results are normal what am I going to do now?

> >

> > I am due to see Dr P at the end of April. When I spoke to him

this

> week he told

> > me to up

> > my Nutri Adrenal from 4 to 6. I am also taking 6 Nutri thyroid.

He

> also told

> > me to order

> > some Cytomel.

> >

> > I am so worried now. If I am normal why was the 24 hr urine test

> for T3 under

> > range -

> > was it a mistake? Will the endo take that on board or will he

just

> say that I

> > don't need

> > medication. If I take the T3 as Dr P says and I don't need it,

> will it make me

> > ill. I am

> > stressed, depressed and tired and feel like crying. I am fed up

> with feeling

> > less than well

> > and now I am thinking that perhaps it is all in my mind and it is

> just my age so

> > I should

> > shut up and put up with it.

> >

> > I need advice - please.......

> >

> >

> >

> > B

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi all, can any one help me

> Ferritin (10 - 322)....ug/L.......154

> TSH....(0.35 - 5.50)...mu/L.....0.44......*0.26....NYA (what is

NYA)

> FT4....(10 - 22.7)....pmol/L....15.3.....15.9

> FT3....(3.5 - 6.5)...pmol/L......5.1

>

> Below are the results of the 24 urine test I had done last

September via Dr P.

> The results and ranges are not the same as the NHS so I cannot

> compare.

>

> T3 - 629 ref range 800-2500

>

> T4 - 1230 ref range 550-3160

>

> T3-T4 ratio 0.51 0.5-2.30

>

> If my NHS results are normal what am I going to do now?

>

> I am so worried now. If I am normal why was the 24 hr urine test

for T3 under

> range -

> was it a mistake? Will the endo take that on board or will he just

say that I

> don't need

> medication. If I take the T3 as Dr P says and I don't need it,

will it make me

> ill.

> I need advice - please.......

I'm not sure you can compare blood tests with the urine test like

for like because the blood test tells you what is floating around in

the blood and the urine test tells you what is actually in your

tissues.

I had a 24 hour urine test which showed really low function, my T3

was even lower than yours, in fact my T4 as well was very much lower

than yours. And yet my TSH according to my GP is normal and

therefore so is eveything else!

I'm waiting for some blood tests myself to go along with the urine

test as I want to see how much thyroid I am actually producing, not

only how much got into my tissues. My understanding is that the body

can only use what arrives in the tissues.

So just because your NHS results are normal doesn't mean you are!

I'm not sure how you get the endo to see it like that though. I'm

afraid I can't help there as I haven't yet had to face that hurdle.

Perhaps arming yourself with as much info as a brain fogged mind can

assimilate would help. Or maybe printing off something for him to

read from the files.

And I wouldn't worry about Dr P giving you anything you don't need.

He knows his stuff and I'm sure he wouldn't do that. I had a trial

of T3. And he was there to help all the way.

Sorry I can't be of any more help and I do wish you well with your

appointment. When so much is riding on it it's a bit nerve racking

isn't it?

x

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

Just took Nutri Adrenal and Nutri Thyroid as usual.

B

[Guest guest]

I am not familiar with Nutri Thyroid, what is it, does it contain

thyroid hormone? Are you not on proper thyroid medication?

Luv

Chris

>

> Hi Chris

>

> Just took Nutri Adrenal and Nutri Thyroid as usual.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

HI

Many thanks for pointing this out as I had completely missed this myself and I think so had others. The test to go by is the 24 hour urine result which is the CORRECT test as this shows what is in your tissues and not what is in your blood. Who's a clever girl them - MARLENE IS!

Luv - Sheila

I'm not sure you can compare blood tests with the urine test like for like because the blood test tells you what is floating around in the blood and the urine test tells you what is actually in your tissues. I had a 24 hour urine test which showed really low function, my T3 was even lower than yours, in fact my T4 as well was very much lower than yours. And yet my TSH according to my GP is normal and therefore so is eveything else!I'm waiting for some blood tests myself to go along with the urine test as I want to see how much thyroid I am actually producing, not only how much got into my tissues. My understanding is that the body can only use what arrives in the tissues. So just because your NHS results are normal doesn't mean you are! I'm not sure how you get the endo to see it like that though. I'm afraid I can't help there as I haven't yet had to face that hurdle. Perhaps arming yourself with as much info as a brain fogged mind can assimilate would help. Or maybe printing off something for him to read from the files.And I wouldn't worry about Dr P giving you anything you don't need. He knows his stuff and I'm sure he wouldn't do that. I had a trial of T3. And he was there to help all the way. Sorry I can't be of any more help and I do wish you well with your appointment. When so much is riding on it it's a bit nerve racking isn't it? x

> Ferritin (10 - 322)....ug/L.......154> TSH....(0.35 - 5.50)...mu/L.....0.44......*0.26....NYA (what is NYA)> FT4....(10 - 22.7)....pmol/L....15.3.....15.9> FT3....(3.5 - 6.5)...pmol/L......5.1> > Below are the results of the 24 urine test I had done last September via Dr P.> The results and ranges are not the same as the NHS so I cannot> compare.> > T3 - 629 ref range 800-2500> > T4 - 1230 ref range 550-3160> > T3-T4 ratio 0.51 0.5-2.30> > If my NHS results are normal what am I going to do now?

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[Guest guest]

Hi

When I first went to the endo I had a pile of info for him but did not give it

to him. I was so

nervous and the raidoactive injection and the scan thingy in my neck made me

panicky.

Unfortunately I cried and could not tell him how I was feeling. I felt so

stupid.

Next Tuesday I want have my mind ready but at the moment I am not feeling

confident. I feel

physically and mentally exhausted and feel weak - I don't think I can carry on

dealing with

the NHS.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

Not on any medication. I saw Dr P last September - he said I had to get my

adrenals sorted

out first. The Nutri Adrenal was a great help. I then started on Nutri Thyroid

but that does

not seem to have made any difference.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi

I know I'm sounding really thick but what was the endo appointment

all about then?

Luv

Chris

>

> Hi Chris

>

> Not on any medication. I saw Dr P last September - he said I had

to get my adrenals sorted

> out first. The Nutri Adrenal was a great help. I then started on

Nutri Thyroid but that does

> not seem to have made any difference.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

Does that mean that if the endo says I am normal and does not offer anything, I

can say that

my 24 hr urine test should be taken into consideration. Can I ask him to give

me medication

based on that test and not the NHS?

Thanks ((hugs))

B

> Many thanks for pointing this out as I had completely missed this myself and I

think so had

others. The test to go by is the 24 hour urine result which is the CORRECT test

as this shows

what is in your tissues and not what is in your blood. Who's a clever girl them

- MARLENE IS!

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

> I know I'm sounding really thick but what was the endo appointment

> all about then?

I have been feeling ill since about 1997. My doctor keeps saying it's my age.

I took the

results of the tests I had done with Dr P - and my T3 being under range. My

doctor

dismissed it as 'a fool and her money' etc., I got so fed up with feeling ill

and being

dismissed by my doctor I insisted on a consultation with someone who knew a bit

more

about thyroids than him.

B

[Guest guest]

You need to have a chat with Dr P again and tell him the Nutri Thyroid are not making a difference. Start preparing for your visit to the endo. List your symptoms, signs (go to our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk and check out the symptoms and signs there, temperature, supplements, family history (if any). List the questions you need to ask him. That way, you won't be wasting time trying to remember everything and he will definitely appreciate you having gone to the trouble to list these for him.

Luv - Sheila

Hi ChrisNot on any medication. I saw Dr P last September - he said I had to get my adrenals sorted out first. The Nutri Adrenal was a great help. I then started on Nutri Thyroid but that does not seem to have made any difference. B

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[Guest guest]

Doctors are always telling us that they won't do a Free T4 or a Free T3 because you do not get a proper picture, because those tests only show the amount of T4 and T3 that is in your blood. The NHS test doesn't measure the amount that is in your tissues, and it is what is in your tissues that matters. You should bring his attention immediately to the fact that you have paid a lot of money to get thios 24 hour Free T4 and Free T3 test done so HE could see exactly what was going on. This particular test is the ONLY test that should be taken seriously .

You should ask him if he will give you a trial of thyroxine based on those results and your symptoms/signs etc, but he might do this himself.

Luv - Sheila

Hi SheilaDoes that mean that if the endo says I am normal and does not offer anything, I can say that my 24 hr urine test should be taken into consideration. Can I ask him to give me medication based on that test and not the NHS?Thanks ((hugs))

..

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[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

I have talked to Dr P. He said to increase my Nutri Adrenal to 6 and order some

Cytomel (T3).

I am seeing him again in April and have persuaded my other half to see him as

well.

It seems as though there is a queue of people waiting to see him. I made him

laugh by

saying a quote from Star Wars............. " help me Obi wan Kanobi, you're my

only hope " but

inserted Dr Peatfied instead of Obi Wan.

B

[Guest guest]

>

> HI

>

> Many thanks for pointing this out as I had completely missed this

myself and I think so had others. The test to go by is the 24 hour

urine result which is the CORRECT test as this shows what is in your

tissues and not what is in your blood. Who's a clever girl then -

MARLENE IS!

>

> Luv - Sheila

Sheila - you have made my day! I feel anything but clever these days,

can't retain information to save my life. And I get so scared when I

reply to posts in case I get anything wrong. So a big THANK YOU. Funny

how little things can mean a lot sometimes :0)

[Guest guest]

Hi

What symptoms do you have indicating and underactive thyroid?

Luv

Chris

>

> Hi Chris

>

> > I know I'm sounding really thick but what was the endo

appointment

> > all about then?

>

> I have been feeling ill since about 1997. My doctor keeps saying

it's my age. I took the

> results of the tests I had done with Dr P - and my T3 being under

range. My doctor

> dismissed it as 'a fool and her money' etc., I got so fed up

with feeling ill and being

> dismissed by my doctor I insisted on a consultation with someone

who knew a bit more

> about thyroids than him.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

)

> RE: it is what is in your tissues that matters.

Have you come across any reasons why thyroid hormone does not get

into the tissues ?? ie What may cause cellular resistence

jenny freeman

>

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date:

14/03/2008 12:33

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

This could be because of such problems caused through not being able to convert the inactive hormone to the active ones (T3/T2 etc). As mentioned in my paper, there are various and many conditions that reduce this conversion such as aging, obesity, disease, stress, exercise, malnutrition, toxic substances such as phenols, cadmium, mercury, etc, or other medicines (e.g. propranolol, amiodarone) that may interfere by stimulating or inhibiting the T4 to T3 conversion plus other hormone or trace element deficiencies, or even excess, (e.g. of T3, GH, insulin, melatonin, zinc, copper, selenium, glucocorticoids, ACTH, oestrogens etc). Also, the absorption of oral T4 can be variable (50% to 73%), contrasting with that of T3, which is more constant and efficient with an absorption of 95%. - but tell that to the Professors - cos they say there is no such thing as a conversion problem.

Luv - Sheila

Re: What do I say to the endo now?????

)> RE: it is what is in your tissues that matters.Have you come across any reasons why thyroid hormone does not getinto the tissues ?? ie What may cause cellular resistencejenny freeman> > > > . > > > >----------------------------------------------------------> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1329 - Release Date:14/03/2008 12:33>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

> What symptoms do you have indicating and underactive thyroid?

My basal temps are low - 97.1 usually. I am tired all the time. I feel

exhausted all the time.

It takes me till about 11am to properly wake up. My muscles ache. My knees

ache. My lower

back aches and sometimes so do my shoulders. My feet ache in the morning. My

memory is

bad, as is my concentration. I feel as though I am in a daze most of the time. I

am

constipated. I have zero libido. My eyebrows are almost gone. I have hardly any

hair on my

legs and arms. My body hair is very sparse. The hair on my hairline is sparse.

I feel

depressed. I have dry skin and brittle nails. Puffy eyes. I don't perspire.

Cold hands and feet

(and bottom). Cold and heat intolerance. And probably some more that I have

gotten so

used to I can't remember.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi

I'm sorry I cannot help you, maybe someone else can now you've

listed all your symptoms.

Luv

Chris

>

> Hi Chris

>

>

> > What symptoms do you have indicating and underactive thyroid?

>

> My basal temps are low - 97.1 usually. I am tired all the time. I

feel exhausted all the time.

> It takes me till about 11am to properly wake up. My muscles

ache. My knees ache. My lower

> back aches and sometimes so do my shoulders. My feet ache in the

morning. My memory is

> bad, as is my concentration. I feel as though I am in a daze most

of the time. I am

> constipated. I have zero libido. My eyebrows are almost gone. I

have hardly any hair on my

> legs and arms. My body hair is very sparse. The hair on my

hairline is sparse. I feel

> depressed. I have dry skin and brittle nails. Puffy eyes. I don't

perspire. Cold hands and feet

> (and bottom). Cold and heat intolerance. And probably some more

that I have gotten so

> used to I can't remember.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

What I originally wanted to know was what do I say to the endo regarding the

disparity

between the NPTech test results and the NHS test results.

Denis B

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Chris

>

> What I originally wanted to know was what do I say to the endo

regarding the disparity

> between the NPTech test results and the NHS test results.

>

> Hi Chris

>

> What I originally wanted to know was what do I say to the endo

regarding the disparity

> between the NPTech test results and the NHS test results.

Hi there

Been following your posts and wish I could say something to help

with your dilemma. Not sure I can really.

I think all you CAN say if he disputes the urine results is that the

urine test is measuring something different to the blood test and is

showing you have a significant deficit of thyroid in your tissues,

which is why you feel so rotten and why you need help.

That really is the definitive answer to the disparity between the

tests. The problem is that he may not choose to go along with the

urine test and be a stickler for the NHS blood resuts. If he says as

much I think you can only try to nicely persuade him that the urine

test has been studied and has been proved to correlate to symptoms

much better than the blood test.

I researched all this a while ago because I wanted to be persuaded

myself that the urine test was all it was cracked up to be simply

because so few people seemed to use it. ( because of its high cost I

think more than anything and that you have to do it privately).

Anyway, somewhere on my computer I have all my research on the

subject, but can I find it ? I've looked and looked but just can't

put my hand to it. Maybe you could do a quick google search to give

yourself a bit of ammunition as it were.

Sorry I can't be of more help. But I do hope all goes well on

Tuesday. Be positive. You can do it! :0)

x

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This sadly goes to prove how flawed the thyroid tests are. The

advice (?Wrong word?)to docs is that symptoms and signs should be taken into

account a well as tests when diagnosing. Unfortunately in reality most NHS

docs will overrule anything if not confirmed by the tests they run. I'm sure

Dr. P will view all this with a more open mind - He got me well.

Subject: What do I say to the endo now?????

If my NHS results are normal what am I going to do now?

I am due to see Dr P at the end of April. When I spoke to him this week he

told

me to up

my Nutri Adrenal from 4 to 6. I am also taking 6 Nutri thyroid. He also told

me to order

some Cytomel.

I need advice - please.......

B

------------------------------------

Messages are not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always

consult with a suitably qualified practitioner before changing

medication.