Re: Switching to T3

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I thought I would let you know about my experience with using

thyroxine and T3, which may indirectly answer some of your

questions.

When I was first diagnosed in early 2007, I was placed on 7.5mcg of

T3 (only - no thyroxine) twice a day (morning and night prior to

food). I had adverse symptoms. It scared me off the T3 and I

started to use thyroxine instead. My doc seemed to think that I

may have had adverse symptoms on 7.5mcg twice a day because the dose

was a bit high for me.

Bring forward the time about a year and a half later to now.... The

last two times I was tested I had elevated RT3 results and the last

time I was tested I had a low free T3 result (below the 'normal'

reference range). My other doc decided to introduce T3 at a low

dose about 2 months ago. I used 5mcg once a day (in the morning 1

hour prior to breakfast) for a month and then increased the dose to

5mcg twice a day (morning and night prior to food). I use the T3 in

ADDITION to the 125mcg of thyroxine that I am already using. I

found I was able to tolerate this amount. I cannot tolerate T3 on

its own, given my past experience.

I received my blood test results today and my TSH is 1.1 (range 0.5 -

4.0) and free T3 is 3.9 (previously was 3.0 in a range of 3.1 -

5.4). My free T3 levels were steadily going down over a period of

about a year (?). I'm waiting to see what my Reverse T3 levels are

right now, but the results won't be back for a few weeks. Anyhow,

it looks like the free T3 levels have finally increased, but I still

suffer from incredible fatigue and many hypo symptoms.

Just thought I'd tell you about my situation, in case it helps.

Every body is different, so I guess my results and symptoms may not

necessarily be indicative of yours, but just thought I'd let you

know what my situation is in case it helps.

P

>> Currently on 125mcg t4 but due to elevated RT3 results GP has

> agreed to try me on T3 instead. He has prescribed 20mcg T3. Here

are

> the questions: Do I need to clear the T4 out of my system before

commencing the T3? Is 20mcg a good starting dose?

Is it OK to split this in two and take morning and night or should I

> split further? Any help greatly appreciated. Any other advice

welcome too.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I am delighted your GP sounds as if he knows what he is doing and giving you a trial of T3 (the active hormone) instead of T4. You do not have to wait to clear the T4 out of your system - that would take around 6 weeks to clear. You can stop the T4 and start the T3, but as your body is not used to T3, I would most defionitely NOT start on 20 mcgs immediately. Always take your T3 in a split dose, say half the dose before your breakfast and the other dose in the middle of the afternoon. This is because the T3 has a very short half life, and leaves your body around 6 to 8 hours, and if you took it all ion the morning, by the afternoon, you could feel a serious 'slump' - so taking it twice a day stops this happening.

I would take 10 mcgs daily at the very beginning to see how you cope with it, and that you do not have any adverse reactions. They are very tiny tablets, and to start with, get a pill cutter, or you can use a sharp knife and cut it into half. If you can't cut into quarters, use the half and crush it between two teaspoons to get powder and take half the powder in the morning and half later. It matters not whether these are equal amounts, because your thyroid puts out different amounts of hormones in the normal way.

Hope this helps, and let us know how you get on. Good luck

Luv - Sheila

PS - As you build up to a higher dose of T3 (20 mcgs) and if you start to get any adverse effects at any time such as palpitations, feeling a bit spaced out, dizzy or sweaty, just stop taking it for 24 hours and then start again.

Hi Guys,I haven't posted for a while. Need a quick bit off advice please.Currently on 125mcg t4 but due to elevated RT3 results GP has agreed to try me on T3 instead. He has prescribed 20mcg T3. Here arethe questions:Do I need to clear the T4 out of my system before commencing the T3? Is 20mcg a good starting dose?Is it OK to split this in two and take morning and night or should Isplit further?Any help greatly appreciated. Any other advice welcome too.RegardsNo virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

> I am delighted your GP sounds as if he knows what he is doing and

giving you a trial of T3 (the active hormone) instead of T4.

Many thanks Sheila, just the info I needed.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Luv

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You do need to stop T4 for a while before starting T3 as it

has such a long half life- I stopped T4 for 5 days before starting T3 in

the form of Armour. Personally I'd start at 10mcg as it can hit some

folk very hard and palpitations can be very frightening- the upside

being that it is out of the body very fast, so if you do overreact you

won't feel bad for too long- be very careful with T3. Twice daily should

be fine- though I'd take most in the am, but saying this I only take one

dose.

Subject: Switching to T3

Hi Guys,

I haven't posted for a while. Need a quick bit off advice please.

Currently on 125mcg t4 but due to elevated RT3 results GP has

agreed to try me on T3 instead. He has prescribed 20mcg T3. Here are

the questions:

Do I need to clear the T4 out of my system before commencing the T3?

Is 20mcg a good starting dose?

Is it OK to split this in two and take morning and night or should I

split further?

Any help greatly appreciated. Any other advice welcome too.

Regards

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

>let us know how you get on. Good luck> Luv - Sheila>> Currently on 125mcg t4 but due to elevated RT3 results GP has > agreed to try me on T3 instead. Hi GuysThought I would give you an update - seems particularly relevant with Sheilas recent posting on RT3 dominance.I have been very lucky and have taken to T3 like a duck to water. I started on 10mcg and am now up to 40mcg in 10mcg increments with the aim of getting to 60mcg.From the first week I started to feel the benefits and am confident that once I find my "Sweet spot" I will be mostly returned to the girl I was before! My energy levels have improved dramatically and falling asleep at my desk is a thing of the past.Anyway, there are never enough success stories with this DD so I thought I would share mine.May you all find your optimum treatment.Luv

[Guest guest]

Oh - that is indeed great news, and thank you so much for posting this update. Some members never come back to tell us how they got on after members recommended treatment that might make them well - they just slip in and then slip away into the ether, so it is so good to know that the hard work that is done here is not for nothing. Well done, and I hope you find your sweet spot soon and that you will continue to thrive and be well.

Luv - Sheila

>let us know how you get on. Good luck> Luv - Sheila>> Currently on 125mcg t4 but due to elevated RT3 results GP has > agreed to try me on T3 instead. Hi GuysThought I would give you an update - seems particularly relevant with Sheilas recent posting on RT3 dominance.I have been very lucky and have taken to T3 like a duck to water. I started on 10mcg and am now up to 40mcg in 10mcg increments with the aim of getting to 60mcg.From the first week I started to feel the benefits and am confident that once I find my "Sweet spot" I will be mostly returned to the girl I was before! My energy levels have improved dramatically and falling asleep at my desk is a thing of the past.Anyway, there are never enough success stories with this DD so I thought I would share mine.May you all find your optimum treatment.Luv No virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

,

I'm really very happy for you. It is great news. So nice to hear from

someone who is doing well and feeling better.

P

I have been very lucky and have taken to T3 like a duck to water. I

started on 10mcg and am now up to 40mcg in 10mcg increments with the

aim of getting to 60mcg.

From the first week I started to feel the benefits and am confident

that once I find my " Sweet spot " I will be mostly returned to the girl

I was before! My energy levels have improved dramatically and falling

asleep at my desk is a thing of the past.

[Guest guest]

What would the reason one would switch to T3? Another question

is if the Armour is 1 grain (60 mg) is the same strength as would 60

mg of thryoxine as prescribed by GP? I have heart failure and have to

be very careful about dosage. I started by taking a tiny particle,

and will increase in a period of weeks and months. I would not like to

go over 25 mg equivalent of the thyroxine.

Lastly, if hypothryroid, is it possible not to take thyroxine, and

take kelp or iodine?

Thx

Kooky

>

> ,

> I'm really very happy for you. It is great news. So nice to hear from

> someone who is doing well and feeling better.

> P

>

>

> I have been very lucky and have taken to T3 like a duck to water. I

> started on 10mcg and am now up to 40mcg in 10mcg increments with the

> aim of getting to 60mcg.

> From the first week I started to feel the benefits and am confident

> that once I find my " Sweet spot " I will be mostly returned to the girl

> I was before! My energy levels have improved dramatically and falling

> asleep at my desk is a thing of the past.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi KookyOne reason to switch from T4 to T3 (for most people) is that they are probably unable to convert the inactive hormone T4 into the active hormone T3. It is the T3 that needs to get into every cell in your body and brain to make them function properly. There are many reasons some people are unable to convert, but sadly, doctors in the UK are not even aware about. Some conditions that may reduce the conversion of T4 to T3, are aging, obesity, disease, stress, exercise, malnutrition, etc. There are also toxic substances such as phenols, cadmium, mercury, and medications such as propranolol, amiodarone and several others that may interfere by inhibiting the T4 to T3 conversion. Also, deficiencies in hormones, such asT3 itself, TSH, growth hormone, insulin, cortisone and certain trace elements such as selenium, iron, zinc, copper, and iodine partially block conversion. On the other hand, excess hormones such as glucocorticoids, ACTH, oestrogens and some trace elements may slow down the conversion of T4 to T3. So you can see why some patients need to be prescribed T3 rather than the inactive T4. When changing over to Armour from Thyroxine, it can be difficult to know what precise amount would give you the same effect as the L-thyroxine you were previously taking. 1 grain (60mgs) is not equivalent to L-thyroxine 60mgs. Because it is natural thyroid extract, Armour contains other unspecified hormones and also calcitonin, so you could also be getting the benefits of those too. Armour does have a higher amount of T3 compared to T4 than the relative amounts of T3 to T4 secreted by the human thyroid gland, however it is well documented that Armour®is often more effective and is better tolerated than synthetic preparations of T4, T3 and T4/T3 combination. This is because the T3 is more slowly released 60 mgs of Armour contains 38 mcg T4 and 9mcgs of T3. Thyroid extract does have a higher amount of T3 compared to T4 than the relative amounts of T3 to T4 secreted by the human thyroid gland, however it is well documented that Armour is often more effective and is better tolerated than synthetic preparations of T4, T3 and T4/T3 combination. This is because the T3 in natural thyroid extract is absorbed more slowly than the synthetic (purified, unbound) T3. If you have heart failure, it is a fact that you do have to be extremely careful about using any form of thyroid hormone replacement, but on the other hand, heart failure can be caused if you needed thyroid hormone replacement and you had been refused it. Taking 25 mcgs is a very low dose of L-thyroxine and this is considered only a starting dose. If you are not making the thyroid hormones your body requires, I doubt such a low dose would do anything for you - you may need this to be increased gradually, but your GP would test your blood frequently to make sure you were not becoming over medicated.

Are you under the care of a GP or are you treating yourself ? If under a GP, has he suggested you change to Armour? Your GP should know what dose of Armour to start you on, and no doubt, he would recommend you start using Armour with a dose of 15mcgs (quarter of a grain of Armour). If no adverse effects after a couple of weeks, he would likely increase this by another 15 mcgs and leave you on that for four weeks. I would suggest you look in our FILES (you can access these from our Home Page) and check out the file "How to oUse Natural Thyroid Extract).

Iodine deficiency in the diet is the leading cause of hypothyroidism worldwide. However, for most people in the UK, there would not be a necessity to take extra iodine or kelp because iodine deficiency isn't common here as it is to be found in most dairy products. However, it would depend where about in the world you lived. There is an easy way to get an idea whether your body is deficient or has enough iodine by running the following test: Before bedtime draw a little grid on the skin of your inner arm, below the elbow level using the cotton bud dipped into iodine tincture (alcohol based). Keep this area dry. Check the grid first thing in the morning. Your body is deficient in iodine if the grid has faded out. Never take iodine or kept if you are hypothyroid without first consulting your doctor though. Too much iodine can cause problems. Be very wary of anybody who tell you that ALL hypothyroid sufferers need extra iodine because not all sufferers do.

If you are hypothyroid, this is because your thyroid is not putting out the thyroid hormones your body needs, and only thyroid hormone replacement will make you well. However, you can take other supplements to help boost its activity.

Sheila

What would the reason one would switch to T3? Another questionis if the Armour is 1 grain (60 mg) is the same strength as would 60mg of thryoxine as prescribed by GP? I have heart failure and have tobe very careful about dosage. I started by taking a tiny particle,and will increase in a period of weeks and months. I would not like togo over 25 mg equivalent of the thyroxine.Lastly, if hypothryroid, is it possible not to take thyroxine, andtake kelp or iodine?Thx Kooky---

[Guest guest]

MODERATED TO REMOVE WHOLE OF LAST MESSAGE LEFT ATTACHED. PLEASE WILL YOU DELETE

AS MUCH AS YOU CAN BEFORE CLICKING 'SEND' AND JUST LEAVE A PORTION OF WHAT YOU

ARE RESPONDING TO. MANY THANKS . LUV - SHEILA

_______________________________________

Hi Sheila:

Many thanks for the coherent and informative reply. I will definitely

check out the file section.

My GP prescribed 25 mg of Thyroxine. I decided not to take it but

instead have now started on Armour! Of course, there was no advice as

to even start on very low dose of Thryroxine. He knows I have

difficulties in metablozing prescribed medications (I take none except

now for Armour) and should have advised to take a tiny little bitand

gradually increase not only because of the inability to metabolize but

also because of the heart failure.

I will let him know that I started on Armour, taking tiny little bits

of 60 mg 1 grain. It will take about three weeks or more for me to

gradually increase till I am able to take a whole grain. I am now

looking for adrenal support as the one I am taking at present from

Nutri is not adquate. As little tiny particles of the Armour I am

taking, I feel wired...

I am seeing a new heart failure specialist on 8 September and will let

him know about the vits and supps and Armour I am at present taking.

I will also try and find out if instead of taking Armour I could take

kelp instead! Agggggggghhhhhhh so much work to do when I am so ill

already!!!

I will contact Budd and enquire about how updated he is, how

long is the first consultation and if he does tailor a protocol

individualized for his patients. More importantly, that they

understand heart failure, and damage cytochrome pathways, and other

nasty symptoms which were all caused as an adverse reaction to a

prescribed anti-malarial prophylaxis!

Thanks again for the excellent reply,

Kooky

>

> Hi Kooky

>

> One reason to switch from T4 to T3 (for most people) is that they

are probably unable to convert the inactive hormone T4 into the active

hormone T3. It is the T3 that needs to get into every cell in your

body and brain to make them function properly. There are many reasons

some people are unable to convert, but sadly, doctors in the UK are

not even aware about. Some conditions that may reduce the conversion

of T4 to T3, are aging, obesity, disease, stress, exercise,

malnutrition, etc. There are also toxic substances such as phenols,

cadmium, mercury, and medications such as propranolol, amiodarone and

several others that may interfere by inhibiting the T4 to T3

conversion. Also, deficiencies in hormones, such asT3 itself, TSH,

growth hormone, insulin, cortisone and certain trace elements such as

selenium, iron, zinc, copper, and iodine partially block conversion.

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: Switching to T3

Hi KookyOne reason to switch from T4 to T3 (for most people) is that they are probably unable to convert the inactive hormone T4 into the active hormone T3. It is the T3 that needs to get into every cell in your body and brain to make them function properly. There are many reasons some people are unable to convert, but sadly, doctors in the UK are not even aware about. Some conditions that may reduce the conversion of T4 to T3, are aging, obesity, disease, stress, exercise, malnutrition, etc. There are also toxic substances such as phenols, cadmium, mercury, and medications such as propranolol, amiodarone and several others that may interfere by inhibiting the T4 to T3 conversion. Also, deficiencies in hormones, such asT3 itself, TSH, growth hormone, insulin, cortisone and certain trace elements such as selenium, iron, zinc, copper, and iodine partially block conversion. On the other hand, excess hormones such

as glucocorticoids, ACTH, oestrogens and some trace elements may slow down the conversion of T4 to T3. So you can see why some patients need to be prescribed T3 rather than the inactive T4. When changing over to Armour from Thyroxine, it can be difficult to know what precise amount would give you the same effect as the L-thyroxine you were previously taking. 1 grain (60mgs) is not equivalent to L-thyroxine 60mgs. Because it is natural thyroid extract, Armour contains other unspecified hormones and also calcitonin, so you could also be getting the benefits of those too. Armour does have a higher amount of T3 compared to T4 than the relative amounts of T3 to T4 secreted by the human thyroid gland, however it is well documented that Armour®is often more effective and is better tolerated than synthetic preparations of T4, T3 and T4/T3 combination. This is because the T3 is more slowly released 60 mgs of Armour contains 38 mcg T4 and

9mcgs of T3. Thyroid extract does have a higher amount of T3 compared to T4 than the relative amounts of T3 to T4 secreted by the human thyroid gland, however it is well documented that Armour is often more effective and is better tolerated than synthetic preparations of T4, T3 and T4/T3 combination. This is because the T3 in natural thyroid extract is absorbed more slowly than the synthetic (purified, unbound) T3. If you have heart failure, it is a fact that you do have to be extremely careful about using any form of thyroid hormone replacement, but on the other hand, heart failure can be caused if you needed thyroid hormone replacement and you had been refused it. Taking 25 mcgs is a very low dose of L-thyroxine and this is considered only a starting dose. If you are not making the thyroid hormones your body requires, I doubt such a low dose would do anything for you - you may need this to be increased gradually, but your GP would test

your blood frequently to make sure you were not becoming over medicated.

Are you under the care of a GP or are you treating yourself ? If under a GP, has he suggested you change to Armour? Your GP should know what dose of Armour to start you on, and no doubt, he would recommend you start using Armour with a dose of 15mcgs (quarter of a grain of Armour). If no adverse effects after a couple of weeks, he would likely increase this by another 15 mcgs and leave you on that for four weeks. I would suggest you look in our FILES (you can access these from our Home Page) and check out the file "How to oUse Natural Thyroid Extract).

Iodine deficiency in the diet is the leading cause of hypothyroidism worldwide. However, for most people in the UK, there would not be a necessity to take extra iodine or kelp because iodine deficiency isn't common here as it is to be found in most dairy products. However, it would depend where about in the world you lived. There is an easy way to get an idea whether your body is deficient or has enough iodine by running the following test: Before bedtime draw a little grid on the skin of your inner arm, below the elbow level using the cotton bud dipped into iodine tincture (alcohol based). Keep this area dry. Check the grid first thing in the morning. Your body is deficient in iodine if the grid has faded out. Never take iodine or kept if you are hypothyroid without first consulting your doctor though. Too much iodine can cause problems. Be very wary of anybody who

tell you that ALL hypothyroid sufferers need extra iodine because not all sufferers do.

If you are hypothyroid, this is because your thyroid is not putting out the thyroid hormones your body needs, and only thyroid hormone replacement will make you well. However, you can take other supplements to help boost its activity.

Sheila

What would the reason one would switch to T3? Another questionis if the Armour is 1 grain (60 mg) is the same strength as would 60mg of thryoxine as prescribed by GP? I have heart failure and have tobe very careful about dosage. I started by taking a tiny particle,and will increase in a period of weeks and months. I would not like togo over 25 mg equivalent of the thyroxine.Lastly, if hypothryroid, is it possible not to take thyroxine, andtake kelp or iodine?Thx Kooky---

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Guys,

>

> I haven't posted for a while. Need a quick bit off advice please.

>

> Currently on 125mcg t4 but due to elevated RT3 results GP has

> agreed to try me on T3 instead. He has prescribed 20mcg T3. Here are

> the questions:

>

> Do I need to clear the T4 out of my system before commencing the

T3?

>

> Is 20mcg a good starting dose?

>

> Is it OK to split this in two and take morning and night or should I

> split further?

>

> Any help greatly appreciated. Any other advice welcome too.

>

> Regards

>

>

I have just posted this elsewhere no idea ware it went, but I have

just found you can find a lot of information and answers by

clicking " files " between messages and photos printed at least on off

o show my GP regarding taking my thyroxine late night instead of in

the morning, there is a lot of information filed there.

keep taking the tablets

Barbara

[Guest guest]

Hi Barbara

Glad you have found the information we keep in our FILES. Have you also looked through the LINKS also as there is further information there too. Also, read everything you can on our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk as you may find informaiton you did not know about there too. For those who do not know how to access the FILES - go to the Home Page of this forum thyroid treatment and on the left side in the MENU, just click on Files, Links, Photo's etc.

Luv - Sheila

>I have just posted this elsewhere no idea ware it went, but I have just found you can find a lot of information and answers by clicking "files" between messages and photos printed at least on off o show my GP regarding taking my thyroxine late night instead of in the morning, there is a lot of information filed there.keep taking the tabletsBarbaraNo virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

Was this it Barbara??

Iodine deficiency in the diet is the leading cause of hypothyroidism

worldwide. However, for most people in the UK, there would not be a

necessity to take extra iodine or kelp because iodine deficiency

isn't common here as it is to be found in most dairy products.

However, it would depend where about in the world you lived. There is

an easy way to get an idea whether your body is deficient or has

enough iodine by running the following test: Before bedtime draw a

little grid on the skin of your inner arm, below the elbow level

using the cotton bud dipped into iodine tincture (alcohol based).

Keep this area dry. Check the grid first thing in the morning. Your

body is deficient in iodine if the grid has faded out. Never take

iodine or kept if you are hypothyroid without first consulting your

doctor though. Too much iodine can cause problems. Be very wary of

anybody who tell you that ALL hypothyroid sufferers need extra iodine

because not all sufferers do.

Bob

[Guest guest]

EDITED TO REMOVE MESSAGES ALREADY READ. PLEASE LEAVE JUST A PORTION OF THE

MESSAGE YOU ARE RESPONDING TO. - SHEILA

________________________________________________

Sheila,

Another reason is that too much T4 is converted to RT3. In that case it

is possible to have a high normal range of FT3 but still have hypoT

symptoms, because the RT3 is blocking T3 receptors. Many of the causes

you cite for poor conversion can also result in excess RT3.

Chuck

You wrote:

>

>

> Hi Kooky

>

> One reason to switch from T4 to T3 (for most people) is that they are

> probably unable to convert the inactive hormone T4 into the active

> hormone T3. It is the T3 that needs to get into every cell in your body

> and brain to make them function properly. There are many reasons some

> people are unable to convert, but sadly, doctors in the UK are not even

> aware about.

[Guest guest]

This is yet another test they appear reluctant to do in the UK - apparently thinking there is no necessity.

Sheila

Another reason is that too much T4 is converted to RT3. In that case it is possible to have a high normal range of FT3 but still have hypoT symptoms, because the RT3 is blocking T3 receptors. Many of the causes you cite for poor conversion can also result in excess RT3.ChuckYou wrote:

.. No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: 27/08/2008 07:01

[Guest guest]

This shows the Chart ~ ratio RT3 to T3 during starvation ( for example)

low selenium may also affect this, via the deiodinases

Bob

>> This is yet another test they appear reluctant to do in the UK - apparently thinking there is no necessity.> Sheila>

[Guest guest]

>

> >let us know how you get on. Good luck

> > Luv - Sheila

> >

> > Currently on 125mcg t4 but due to elevated RT3 results GP has

> > agreed to try me on T3 instead.

Hi guys

Further update.

I have now been on 60mcg T3 since September 08 and feeling much

better. Last bloods 28/01/09 as follows:

TSH 0.06 ( 0.4 - 4.0)

T4 2.5 (12.0 - 22.0)

T3 4.8 ( 4.0 - 7.8)

Notes from lab and doc said all normal which was refreshing as I was

expecting a fight about the supressed TSH!

Based on these results I was thinking about asking the doc for a

slight dose increase on the T3, as I am not quite symptomless yet.

What do you think?

Any insights greatly appreciated.

Luv