Guest guest Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 See my other email for links, but to summarize: 1. IF the cause of the thyroid antibodies is gluten intolerance, not eating gluten gets rid of the thyroid antibodies. 2. Not eating gluten also lowers the anti-gluten antibodies. 3. For me personally, I don't know that I had anti-thyroid antibodies: I was at risk, because the other women in my family do. But I don't have low-thyroid symptoms at all these days. 4. Even if the " damage has been done " , if there is a gluten problem, removing the gluten prevents further damage and damage to other organs. I mean, if I had kept eating gluten until my thyroid was gone, and then kept eating it, my pancreas might be next, or I might have developed lupus or something else. 5. I don't know if I said " reversing antibodies " ... that phrase doesn't actually make sense. In studies, they have made the antibodies disappear, or go down to non-detectible levels. And yes, I'm talking about thyroid antibodies, not gluten antibodies. This has been very well studied and it does work, for people with gluten problems. But unfortunately there isn't a totally accurate way to tell if you have said problem (testing zonulin levels might work). On Feb 16, 2008 9:03 PM, <irene.m@...> wrote: > > For heavens sake, I know what antibodies are. Anyway, what I was responding > to is that you said that you didn't think removing gluten would help once > the thyroid damage was done. Since we were talking about reversing > antibodies I assumed what you meant that once you had thyroid damage > removing gluten wouldn't get rid of antibodies. I guess that is not what you > meant. > Anyway, the bottom line is that not eating gluten helped your antibodies > but they were IgA and not TSI if I understand correctly. I don't know if > there is any evidence that TSI will be reversed by not eating gluten but I > guess we don't really know. Certainly healing the gut is important no matter > what your condition. But for myself I am not holding my breath for any gut > healing drug. > Irene > > > At 07:48 PM 2/16/2008, you wrote: > > > You can think of the antibodies as little " killer cells " . It's > more complicated than that, but basically, when > you have high anti-thyroid antibodies, they kill the > thyroid gland eventually. > > When you get rid of the thyroid antibodies, MAYBE > the thyroid gland can recover. Depends on how much > damage there is. > > For some people, eating gluten causes the junctures > in the gut to open, allowing rogue proteins to enter the > blood. Those rogue proteins stimulate the immune system. > It's like, say, taking 20 vaccination shots a day with > random food in the syringe. There will be anti-gluten > antibodies, sure, but the surprising thing is that this > reaction also stimulates anti-thyroid and anti-pancreatic > antibodies. Anti-other-things antibodies too. Bad, bad > stuff. > > If that is happening, stopping the food that causes > the leakage, is the first step to healing (and preventing > more problems). However, Dr. Fasano is also working > on a drug to just stop the leakage. My guess: he's > going to make a LOT of money off this drug! Unfortunately > it's a privately held company, so I can't buy stock. > > Iodine enters into this somehow, but I don't think > anyone is clear how at this point. Personally I think > you are more apt to develop the autoimmune diseases > if you are low in iodine, but once you HAVE an autoimmune > disease, it might stimulate the immune system and > maybe temporarily cause more symptoms. At least, > that is what I experienced. > > But yes: once the thyroid is damaged you can STILL > reverse the antibodies. It's just that we don't know > how much the thyroid can recover once the antibodies are gone. > Also, without testing, you can't easily know what > is the trigger for the antibodies for any one person, > and since this is really new, no one really knows > what all the triggers even ARE. The only one that > has been actually tested is gluten, in humans, > and casein, in rats, AFAIK. > > On Feb 16, 2008 2:31 AM, <irene.m@...> wrote: > > Of course, now it sounds like what you are saying is > > that you need to find the root of the leaky before the thyroid gets so > > damaged, so I guess, once the thyroid gets so damaged you can't reverse > the > > antibodies. > > > > Irene > > > > > > At 10:39 PM 2/15/2008, you wrote: > > > > > > I don't think " not eating gluten " will help though, > > once there is major damage. I personally > > don't have thyroid damage, AFAIK ... I use iodine > > for other things. And gluten isn't the only thing > > that can trigger the antibodies ... it is likely > > that casein can too, and probably other foods > > and bacteria. But the root cause ... zonulin induced > > leaky gut ... is being studied and hopefully in the > > near future, the autoimmune problems will be stopped > > BEFORE the thyroid is so damaged. > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 6:26 PM, <irene.m@...> wrote: > > > > > > I haven't eaten gluten in years. But glad it worked for you. > > > Irene > > > > > > > -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Well this is what you said: This has been studied quite a bit, and yes, they HAVE reversed the antibodies. Whether the word " reversing " is correct is not important, I think we all know what you mean. But the point is, that the comment has been made that avoiding gluten could get rid of anti-thyroid antibodies. I looked at your link. I have no doubt that removing gluten for some people would reduce anti-thyroid antibodies. Unfortunately for me I was gluten free for a long time before I was even diagnosed with Hashimoto's so unfortunately it is not quite that simple for me. Irene At 01:50 PM 2/17/2008, you wrote: See my other email for links, but to summarize: 1. IF the cause of the thyroid antibodies is gluten intolerance, not eating gluten gets rid of the thyroid antibodies. 2. Not eating gluten also lowers the anti-gluten antibodies. 3. For me personally, I don't know that I had anti-thyroid antibodies: I was at risk, because the other women in my family do. But I don't have low-thyroid symptoms at all these days. 4. Even if the " damage has been done " , if there is a gluten problem, removing the gluten prevents further damage and damage to other organs. I mean, if I had kept eating gluten until my thyroid was gone, and then kept eating it, my pancreas might be next, or I might have developed lupus or something else. 5. I don't know if I said " reversing antibodies " ... that phrase doesn't actually make sense. In studies, they have made the antibodies disappear, or go down to non-detectible levels. And yes, I'm talking about thyroid antibodies, not gluten antibodies. This has been very well studied and it does work, for people with gluten problems. But unfortunately there isn't a totally accurate way to tell if you have said problem (testing zonulin levels might work). On Feb 16, 2008 9:03 PM, <irene.m@...> wrote: > > For heavens sake, I know what antibodies are. Anyway, what I was responding > to is that you said that you didn't think removing gluten would help once > the thyroid damage was done. Since we were talking about reversing > antibodies I assumed what you meant that once you had thyroid damage > removing gluten wouldn't get rid of antibodies. I guess that is not what you > meant. > Anyway, the bottom line is that not eating gluten helped your antibodies > but they were IgA and not TSI if I understand correctly. I don't know if > there is any evidence that TSI will be reversed by not eating gluten but I > guess we don't really know. Certainly healing the gut is important no matter > what your condition. But for myself I am not holding my breath for any gut > healing drug. > Irene > > > At 07:48 PM 2/16/2008, you wrote: > > > You can think of the antibodies as little " killer cells " . It's > more complicated than that, but basically, when > you have high anti-thyroid antibodies, they kill the > thyroid gland eventually. > > When you get rid of the thyroid antibodies, MAYBE > the thyroid gland can recover. Depends on how much > damage there is. > > For some people, eating gluten causes the junctures > in the gut to open, allowing rogue proteins to enter the > blood. Those rogue proteins stimulate the immune system. > It's like, say, taking 20 vaccination shots a day with > random food in the syringe. There will be anti-gluten > antibodies, sure, but the surprising thing is that this > reaction also stimulates anti-thyroid and anti-pancreatic > antibodies. Anti-other-things antibodies too. Bad, bad > stuff. > > If that is happening, stopping the food that causes > the leakage, is the first step to healing (and preventing > more problems). However, Dr. Fasano is also working > on a drug to just stop the leakage. My guess: he's > going to make a LOT of money off this drug! Unfortunately > it's a privately held company, so I can't buy stock. > > Iodine enters into this somehow, but I don't think > anyone is clear how at this point. Personally I think > you are more apt to develop the autoimmune diseases > if you are low in iodine, but once you HAVE an autoimmune > disease, it might stimulate the immune system and > maybe temporarily cause more symptoms. At least, > that is what I experienced. > > But yes: once the thyroid is damaged you can STILL > reverse the antibodies. It's just that we don't know > how much the thyroid can recover once the antibodies are gone. > Also, without testing, you can't easily know what > is the trigger for the antibodies for any one person, > and since this is really new, no one really knows > what all the triggers even ARE. The only one that > has been actually tested is gluten, in humans, > and casein, in rats, AFAIK. > > On Feb 16, 2008 2:31 AM, <irene.m@...> wrote: > > Of course, now it sounds like what you are saying is > > that you need to find the root of the leaky before the thyroid gets so > > damaged, so I guess, once the thyroid gets so damaged you can't reverse > the > > antibodies. > > > > Irene > > > > > > At 10:39 PM 2/15/2008, you wrote: > > > > > > I don't think " not eating gluten " will help though, > > once there is major damage. I personally > > don't have thyroid damage, AFAIK ... I use iodine > > for other things. And gluten isn't the only thing > > that can trigger the antibodies ... it is likely > > that casein can too, and probably other foods > > and bacteria. But the root cause ... zonulin induced > > leaky gut ... is being studied and hopefully in the > > near future, the autoimmune problems will be stopped > > BEFORE the thyroid is so damaged. > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 6:26 PM, <irene.m@...> wrote: > > > > > > I haven't eaten gluten in years. But glad it worked for you. > > > Irene > > > > > > > -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Right, it doesn't work for everyone. The reason I bring it up occasionally is in the hope that some people will be tested while it's still reversible. It's only a subset of people, but, in those cases, it's curable. On Feb 18, 2008 4:57 PM, <irene.m@...> wrote: > > Well this is what you said: > > > This has been studied quite a bit, and yes, they HAVE > reversed the antibodies. > Whether the word " reversing " is correct is not important, I think we all > know what you mean. But the point is, that the comment has been made that > avoiding gluten could get rid of anti-thyroid antibodies. I looked at your > link. I have no doubt that removing gluten for some people would reduce > anti-thyroid antibodies. Unfortunately for me I was gluten free for a long > time before I was even diagnosed with Hashimoto's so unfortunately it is not > quite that simple for me. > > Irene > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 The science of autoimmune diseases is really new, and still in flux. But here is the deal as I understand it: Antibodies exist to fight microbes, mostly. They recognize the protein coat on a specific microbe, and target it for destruction. However, they are NOT supposed to target " self " cells. They are supposed to kill staph germs, but not, say, pancreatic cells. " Something " goes awry though, in some people, and antibodies get created that attack yourself. This isn't normal. But it's becoming more and more common. Why? That's the big question. " Inflammation " is also becoming more and more common. Inflammation though, is not autoimmunity, though obviously if your body is attacking itself that can lead to inflammation. There are other causes of inflammation though. One line of inquiry into autoimmunity is being done by Dr. Fasano, and it is very intriguing. His idea is that if the tight junctures in the gut open, that proteins leak into the blood and confuse the immune system, leading to autoimmune problems. They demonstrated this in rats, by giving them zonulin, which opens up the tight junctures. No one knows exactly what all causes zonulin secretion in humans ... there are likely several causes. Gluten is the only one that's been studied much, but casein is also a potential culprit, and certain microbes. Zonulin probably isn't the only cause for autoimmune diseases either, but it probably accounts for a big chunk of them. It might be the reason that, say, when people take probiotics, their arthritis gets better. It also might be a reason iodine helps some people ... if it kills off bad bugs in the intestine, that might help with autoimmunity. Anyway, the concept that suddenly the immune system just kind of goes haywire for no reason and starts attacking the body, doesn't make a lot of sense. It also doesn't make sense that organs and joints should just randomly get inflamed. The explanation used to be " old age " , but it's happening at a younger and younger age. They are beginning to pin down some of the reasons now, and the causes they are finding are largely avoidable. On Feb 19, 2008 4:47 AM, cindi22595 <cindi22595@...> wrote: > Someone correct me if i'm wrong here...but it's my understanding that > in cases you're describing (thyroid antibodies because of gluten) - > these folks don't necessarily have Hashi's....they do have > autoimmunity. But autoimmunity doesn't necessarily imply autoimmune > disease. > In fact there is a percentage of older women who are going to have > thyroid antibodies...inflammation of the thyroid gland...but not > necessarily autoimmune disease. > > In other words...Hashi's is not caused by antibodies...the antibodies > show up because of the disease. > I just say this because young folks may not have antibodies yet...and > we know that 10% of folks may not even have the antibodies that are > usually prevalent in hashi's. > > comments? i have tried to understand this concept of autoimmunity > vs. autoimmune disease....and it just seems that so many imply that > hashi's is Caused by antibodies...and my reading just doesn't > indicate that...but i'd like to be set straight if this is wrong. > cindi > > --- In iodine , " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.