Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 From my own experience, Dr. Brownstein does test for all antibodies. My antibody levels have consistently been moving down since I began on Dr. B's protocol last fall. I was diagnosed with Graves back in 2000 and am now, of course, hashi's. Glocindi22595 <cindi22595@...> wrote: steph, so far we know of several hashi's folks who had difficulty/can't tolerate iodine - do have TSI antibodies (graves antibodies)....and this might also be an important question to be asking of those hashi's folks who can't tolerate iodine. I was really surprised that Brownstein didn't address this Hashi's/TSI antibodies issue in his 3rd edition...but maybe he isn't testing hashi's folks for these TSH receptor antibodies as only approx 1/3 of hashi's folks have them. cindi>> For the two of you that voted already please go back and vote again. I forgot to add one more option - the most important reason for the poll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 So he does test all hashi's folks for TSH receptor antibodies? Great! That is so rare...and it is so wise do always check that imo. But I've just never seen a whole lot about antibodies mentioned anywhere in his books/articles...and it seems to be a very important part of the iodine picture imo. And specifically when you have someone as knowledgeable as Elaine on Graves warning repeatedly against iodine for Graves folks...so I just hope to hear more from brownstein on this and was disappointed this wasn't discussed more in the 3rd edition. But anyway - your TSI antibodies have gone down with iodine supplementation? WOW! And am i understanding you correctly that you no longer have TSI antibodies even dominating...so are no longer even classified as Graves - but that you do have TPO and/or Antithyroglobulin - so are just classified as Hashi's now? cindi > > From my own experience, Dr. Brownstein does test for all antibodies. My antibody levels have consistently been moving down since I began on Dr. B's protocol last fall. > > I was diagnosed with Graves back in 2000 and am now, of course, hashi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> wrote: > > So he does test all hashi's folks for TSH receptor antibodies? > Great! That is so rare... Glory <glonear@> wrote: > > From my own experience, Dr. Brownstein does test for all > antibodies. Need to get a list of antibodies routinely tested for by Dr B before making any assumptions. Also non-routinely tested for, and under what conditions. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 , I do not agree at all that they are rare, based on the numerous people on other thyroid boards I'm on who do test positive. They might only seem rare to him because he is not routinely running TSI antibodies on hashi's patients, and/or is not interpreting the results correctly. It sounds like he only runs the test if he suspects Grave's. Well, many of us Hashi's who decided to either ask for a TSI test or order it ourselves found out to our surprise that we are positive. Anything over 2% is considered positive for Graves, even though it shows in the so-called 'normal' range. How is Brownstein interpreting those ranges? Over 2% is considered positive for Grave's, over 128% means the person is close to going hyper and needs to be monitored. If he is not testing all hashi's patients AND interpreting it according to Grave's experts, then I would venture to say that many of his patients who are positive for TSI are not being Dx as such by him. And it is these patients, who may not yet have an overt signs of Grave's (but yet have the potential given the right conditions), who cannot tolerate iodine, either low or high dose. > > I just received the official word from Dr Brownstein. > > He said that he only runs TSI Antibodies in cases of diagnosing Graves Disease > He also added that they are very rare. > > He does run Tg Ab and TPO Ab on all his patients. > > > B. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 I wouldn't consider the possibility of them being in 1/3 of hashi's patients " rare " .... but thx for this info... cindi > > I just received the official word from Dr Brownstein. > > He said that he only runs TSI Antibodies in cases of diagnosing Graves Disease > He also added that they are very rare. > > He does run Tg Ab and TPO Ab on all his patients. > > > B. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 TSI are the antibodies that cause Graves disease. If your TSI antibodies are high, iodine can make you worse. More information: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/graves_disease/98200 I just ordered my own TSI antibody test from www.healthcheckusa.com Val From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Jeff & Joni Hi Valarie, No I don’t think so because I don’t know what TSI antibodies are. I’d like to know, could you explain? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I take issue with the "iodine can make you worse" statement. That is not true in all cases. I know someone with high TSI antibodies who is currently taking 125 mgs of Iodoral. She has taken at least 50 mgs since 2005. I don't think TSI Ab's are the one defining thing that causes issues. RE: TSI antibodies TSI are the antibodies that cause Graves disease. If your TSI antibodies are high, iodine can make you worse. More information: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/graves_disease/98200 I just ordered my own TSI antibody test from www.healthcheckusa.com Val From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Jeff & Joni Hi Valarie, No I don’t think so because I don’t know what TSI antibodies are. I’d like to know, could you explain? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Quoting Elaine : ”The goal in treating Graves’ disease is to lower thyroid hormone levels and to heal the immune system. When the immune system is functioning properly, it stops producing TSI and patients achieve remission. Anti-thyroid drugs help the immune system heal because they cause the immune system to slow down. Avoiding environmental triggers such as excess iodine and cigarette smoke also helps. So do a nutrient-rich diet and an avoidance of stress. " Notice she says " excess iodine. " http://www.elaine-moore.com/gravesdisease/ http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/graves_disease/98200/1 Certainly, it might be a good idea for Joni to check her TSI. Val From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of ladybugsandbees I take issue with the " iodine can make you worse " statement. That is not true in all cases. I know someone with high TSI antibodies who is currently taking 125 mgs of Iodoral. She has taken at least 50 mgs since 2005. I don't think TSI Ab's are the one defining thing that causes issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 This seems to me, as in Hashi's that they are not addressing the cause of the antibodies, only treating the symptoms. Linn > > Quoting Elaine : " The goal in treating Graves' disease is to lower > thyroid hormone levels and to heal the immune system. When the immune system > is functioning properly, it stops producing TSI and patients achieve > remission. Anti-thyroid drugs help the immune system heal because they cause > the immune system to slow down. Avoiding environmental triggers such as > excess iodine and cigarette smoke also helps. So do a nutrient-rich diet and > an avoidance of stress. " Notice she says " excess iodine. " > > http://www.elaine-moore.com/gravesdisease/ > http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/graves_disease/98200/1 > > Certainly, it might be a good idea for Joni to check her TSI. > > Val > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 The body doesn't just starting attacking itself for no reason. The immune system confuses items and then starts to attack what is considered foreign. In Hashi's one of the causes of the antibodies can be gluten. Removing the offender can eliminate the antibody attack on the thyroid. I think the possibility exists even for Type 1 diabetes to be put in remission. There are rare cases where it has happened, but there is no interest by mainstream medicine to address it. There are many areas to look into, nutrition (first and foremost), chemicals, toxins, etc. that can be contributing to the immune system running amuck. I was comparing treatment of Graves, Hashi's etc., mainstream focus is to treat the symptoms, not look for the cause. Linn > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 No, didn't mean that we as patients weren't looking at underlying causes, only referring to the info posted. Heavy metals and chemicals can also be a cause I think it's a puzzle for everyone, to find the issues that may be causing the problems and I also think that depending on how long one has had issues, the longer it may take to correct. For instance with my daughter, she's still very young and has only had thyroid issues for a relatively short time, about 4 years. Linn > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 -Hi, that is terrible that you can find nothing to help you. I too have mercury poisoning and am swabbing iodine. I got something fromn the health food store called MTL that seemed to help. I have noticed short term memory loss, but a strong believer that all is well. Let me know how it goes. -- In iodine , Chantal <chantalh@...> wrote: > > My 2 cents here. > I have been hypothyroid for 28 years and never had any > antibodies.However after finding out I was mercury toxic ,due to having > amalgams and then having them removed without protection,I was exposed > to more mercury and my thyroid problem got worse.Still no antibodies.I > took DMSA to chelate the mercury and ended up with antibodies off the > charts.I would not have amalgams removed without the proper protocols or > you are just asking for more problems.More mercury exposure and you can > really crash and then trying to get rid of the stuff is a nightmare.I've > tried so many things and they all make me worse including iodine. > Chantal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 My 2 cents here. I have been hypothyroid for 28 years and never had any antibodies.However after finding out I was mercury toxic ,due to having amalgams and then having them removed without protection,I was exposed to more mercury and my thyroid problem got worse.Still no antibodies.I took DMSA to chelate the mercury and ended up with antibodies off the charts.I would not have amalgams removed without the proper protocols or you are just asking for more problems.More mercury exposure and you can really crash and then trying to get rid of the stuff is a nightmare.I've tried so many things and they all make me worse including iodine. Chantal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 That is a matter of opinion. To live with amalgams aka silver fillings is asking for potenial issues down the road. Rheumatiod arthritis and a host of other problems linked to mercury. Each time you bite down on an amalgam filling it is thought to release a little mercury into one's system. I had my " silver fillings " removed about 15 years ago because of a studies I read in Germany where they were banned and the reasons why. I was getting sinus infections constantly and I couldnt take it anymore. I had them removed and sinus headaches DISAPPEARED. Michigan > >>I would not have amalgams removed without the proper protocols or > >> you are just asking for more problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Someone correct me if i'm wrong here...but it's my understanding that in cases you're describing (thyroid antibodies because of gluten) - these folks don't necessarily have Hashi's....they do have autoimmunity. But autoimmunity doesn't necessarily imply autoimmune disease. In fact there is a percentage of older women who are going to have thyroid antibodies...inflammation of the thyroid gland...but not necessarily autoimmune disease. In other words...Hashi's is not caused by antibodies...the antibodies show up because of the disease. I just say this because young folks may not have antibodies yet...and we know that 10% of folks may not even have the antibodies that are usually prevalent in hashi's. comments? i have tried to understand this concept of autoimmunity vs. autoimmune disease....and it just seems that so many imply that hashi's is Caused by antibodies...and my reading just doesn't indicate that...but i'd like to be set straight if this is wrong. cindi --- In iodine , " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 yes...i think there is much that isn't known... and i'm one of those with the very strong Genetic link with thyroid disorder...4 generations so far... so i keep wondering if perhaps there are certain HPT genetic defects that have been discovered that somehow promote autoimmunity.... cindi --- In iodine , " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> wrote: > > Someone correct me if i'm wrong here...but it's my understanding that > in cases you're describing (thyroid antibodies because of gluten) - > these folks don't necessarily have Hashi's....they do have > autoimmunity. But autoimmunity doesn't necessarily imply autoimmune > disease. > In fact there is a percentage of older women who are going to have > thyroid antibodies...inflammation of the thyroid gland...but not > necessarily autoimmune disease. > > In other words...Hashi's is not caused by antibodies... > the antibodies > show up because of the disease. > I just say this because young folks may not have > antibodies yet...and > we know that 10% of folks may not even have the > antibodies that are > usually prevalent in hashi's. > > comments? i have tried to understand this concept of autoimmunity > vs. autoimmune disease....and it just seems that so many imply that > hashi's is Caused by antibodies...and my reading just doesn't > indicate that...but i'd like to be set straight if this is wrong. > cindi My understanding is that food allergies and gluten allergy particularly, with formation of antibodies especially gluten antibodies can drive the autoimmune tendency as the immune system gets overzealous about attacking anything that could be perceived as a foreign protein. I suspect low cortisol in many of these cases also, even in childhood, and this possibly augmented by a load of vaccinations that classical homeopathy views as overwhelming all normal channels of entry into the body. Later the thyroid can become part of the imbalance and thyroid antibodies form even years before thyroid levels go low. Mercury leaching from old amalgams, and high tuna ingestion, and perchlorates commonly contribute to deranging the thyroid. So it's often a LARGER SYSTEMIC ETIOLOGY, in my opinion. Thyroid antibodies are by themselves diagnostic of hashi, but that's not quite the same as saying hashi is caused by antibodies. Hashi antibodies eventually destroy the thyroid to a great degree, so in that loose sense hashi and the resulting hypothyroid state could be said to be caused by antibodies. Seems like a mafia rhetoric problem to me -- they make me an offer I can't refuse AND I can't understand.... :-) I would welcome pointers to sources re some 50% of hypoTs having TSI antibodies though. I would have thought the percentage would have been much lower like around 3-5% Carol Willis willis_protocols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I haven't seen the 50% figure...but I have seen the " one-third " of Hashi's folks have TSH receptor antibodies (with TSI being one type of TSH receptor antibody)....and i know that Elaine in her articles has used that figure. cindi > > " > I would welcome pointers to sources re some 50% of hypoTs > having TSI antibodies though. I would have thought the > percentage would have been much lower like around 3-5% > > Carol Willis > willis_protocols > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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