Re: OT - 24 hr. urine cortisol

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

>My apologies to the group and Zoe for continuing on a non-iodine related

>topic, but I wanted to correct my prior erroneous statement, share some of

>what I've learned since the thread started, and finish my say.

In the adrenals, is there a connection to Iodine in a manner similar to the

connection with thyroid?

>I've been trying to find a research piece someone on one of health

>groups posted recently about using saliva cortisol tests to monitor

>glucocorticoid replacement, don't know if it was HC or prednisone or

>something else.

Big difference between Hydrocortisone and Prednisone. Prednisone is a

" synthetic analog " (read as " synthetic garbage " not natural to the body.)

Hydrocortisone is the bio-identical hormone.

The researchers found that the cortisol measurements were

>all over the place and concluded that saliva cortisol tests could not be

>used for monitoring replacement therapy.

True logic is lacking in medical " science " these days. Mainly what's pushed

is similar to religous dogma, the belief the drug companies wish the doctors

to have as they train them.

So, some people believe the ACTH stim test is definitive and perfect for

adrenal insufficiency, some think the saliva testing is great while others

talk about how poor a choice it is, and there are a few who think adrenal

insufficiency can be diagnosed from the 24 hour urine. It's as if symptoms

like postural hypotension, or the eyes not being able to stay constricted

when one shines a flashlight across the eyes in the dark, rheumatoid type

pain, and other symptoms don't exist or matter.

Actually, most doctors refuse to recognize low adrenal function short of

's Disease.

If you look back at history, you find the arguments rarely change, and we've

known things for millenia. In the 1940s Tintera was pushing Adrenal

Cortical Extract for the treatment of low adrenals, and the FDA was happy to

outlaw it because it considered Prednisone safer. They took away a good

choice, that was alleged to help many people with low adrenals,

" hypoglcyemia " and alcoholism.

Before Christ, I've heard of a Chinese soup for the hypothyroid, and I'm

sure the hunter-gatherers knew how to make use of the thyroid gland, just

like they did the other organs. I used to read Louis L'amour westerns and

remember him talking about " Scurvy, the scourge of the plains " and how they

used to eat buffalo tongue to cure it. (Long time ago, I think I remember

it right.)

I've read a piece on the Internet that alleges to be a letter about mercury

in dentistry in the 1800s, and even then they were talking about the toxic

effects it would have, and many disapproved.

We think these issues are new, and medicine always improves, but the issues

are the same as decades and centuries ago.

I bought an inversion table for my wife's back, and it helps a lot. It's

one of those questionable theories again, but it seems as in the days of

Hippocrates, he would tie people's feet to a ladder to get the same effect.

Imagine that.

How did the medical profession get the symbol of the two snakes intertwined

on the staff? Is it because they're expected to be the devious serpents

they are spouting lies about how they can make us better with drugs and

their own brand of sorcery? (Why's Vioxx better than marijuana, because

doctor's say so? Oh, marijuana is bad because it's a mind altering drug, in

addition to a pain killer. I guess mind altering drugs like the Dexedrine

the Air Force requires pilots to take, or Prozac, or Ritalin are OK because

they're separate from the pain killer? Note, I'm not advocating marijuana

don't like the thought of drugs that are illegal being used, just wonder

what makes them different as in 1930 or so, prescriptions were not required

for medicine people needed, they could go to the corner druggist and get it

without paying a " gatekeeper " for it. Have you noticed Lugol's is hard to

get from your local drug store? That's because it can be used in meth

production. If you buy a lot of it, someone might visit you.)

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

> >From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

> >My apologies to the group and Zoe for continuing on a non-iodine related

> >topic, but I wanted to correct my prior erroneous statement, share some

of

> >what I've learned since the thread started, and finish my say.

>

> In the adrenals, is there a connection to Iodine in a manner similar to

the

> connection with thyroid?

I think some have made that claim. Are you suggesting that this thread

isn't OT for the iodine group?

> So, some people believe the ACTH stim test is definitive and perfect for

> adrenal insufficiency, some think the saliva testing is great while others

> talk about how poor a choice it is, and there are a few who think adrenal

> insufficiency can be diagnosed from the 24 hour urine. It's as if symptoms

> like postural hypotension, or the eyes not being able to stay constricted

> when one shines a flashlight across the eyes in the dark, rheumatoid type

> pain, and other symptoms don't exist or matter.

Except for bronzed skin, I think most other physical symptoms of adrenal

insufficiency can be associated with a myriad of dysfunctions, so a

definitive lab test makes sense to me. However, it seems that all the

current tests are better at detecting excess cortisol and lack accuracy and

sensitivity in detecting adrenal insufficiency. The research article I

posted said one must take into account not just circulating levels of

cortisol, but binding levels with protein (CBG), densities of receptors in

target tissues, and additionally enzyme action within the cells because of

metabolism of cortisol by the 11B-HSD enzyme, not to mention the

difficulties inherent in measuring a hormone that is released in a diurnal,

pulsatile, and irregular fashion. With so many factors affecting the

meaningful interpretation of cortisol tests, seems like physical symptoms

should be paid more weight.

> Actually, most doctors refuse to recognize low adrenal function short of

> 's Disease.

> If you look back at history, you find the arguments rarely change, and

we've

> known things for millenia. In the 1940s Tintera was pushing Adrenal

> Cortical Extract for the treatment of low adrenals, and the FDA was happy

to

> outlaw it because it considered Prednisone safer. They took away a good

> choice, that was alleged to help many people with low adrenals,

> " hypoglcyemia " and alcoholism.

I wonder if ACE will ever make a comeback. It sure seems to be a needed

product.

> How did the medical profession get the symbol of the two snakes

intertwined

> on the staff? Is it because they're expected to be the devious serpents

> they are spouting lies about how they can make us better with drugs and

> their own brand of sorcery?

This site http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html gives an explanation of that

symbol.

It's the same as the magic wand of the Greek God Hermes. Yes, sorcery is in

the heritage of the Caduceus, although there are also more benign

explanations for the staff of Asclepius.

> Have you noticed Lugol's is hard to

> get from your local drug store? That's because it can be used in meth

> production. If you buy a lot of it, someone might visit you.)

> Skipper

Lugol's is used to make meth? For real?

Lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

>I think some have made that claim. Are you suggesting that this thread

>isn't OT for the iodine group?

It probably depends in part of the pleasure of the moderator.

I don't know of any direct link between the adrenals and iodine.

However, establishment medicine says that iodine is strictly for the

production of thyroid hormone, and that's the only purpose. It has no

immune function, no antiseptis, the fact that according to Dr. Derry within

about a minute of being injected radioactive iodine (and presumably) regular

iodine go to the cervix or uterus, does that mean it actually has a function

there?

The fact that injected radioactive iodine will make an outline of bones,

does it mean there's a function there?

http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl7.htm

Radioactive iodine injected into patients shows a full outline of the bones

on a total body scan. This means one of the places iodine goes to

immediately is bones.

*************************************

I think the full use of iodine goes further than most people would expect.

Again, I know of no direct effect on the adrenal gland, but low iodine

causes low thyroid, and low thyroid is known to cause low cortisol. As

Langer reported in " Solved the Riddle of Illness " , frequently when one

starts thyroid hormone their cortisol increases. (But low adrenals that

need support are still rather common in hypos, some of us won't get better

with hydrocortisone.)

Also, I've wondered what happens to the iodine molecule that is removed from

T4 to make T3. I've not heard any theories on that, but medicine assures us

it has no potential antiseptic effect.

>Except for bronzed skin, I think most other physical symptoms of adrenal

>insufficiency can be associated with a myriad of dysfunctions, so a

>definitive lab test makes sense to me.

Definitive lab tests would be nice, but many people have died with " perfect "

labs. Just because you have low cholesterol doesn't mean your heart isn't

going to give out. Labs point to things, but not in isolation, not without

careful understanding of the patient from patient history and clinical

examination.

>Lugol's is used to make meth? For real?

I've heard that can be part of the process (I don't know if it's necessary

or there are alternatives) and that's part of the reason Lugol's is usually

not sold over the counter in most drug stores.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

> Skipper wrote:

> Also, I've wondered what happens to the iodine molecule that is removed

from

> T4 to make T3. I've not heard any theories on that, but medicine assures

us

> it has no potential antiseptic effect.

Qood question. I can't remember where I read it now, but someone claimed

that the iodine in the thyroid is what sanitizes the blood as the whole

blood supply is supposed to circulate through the thyroid like every 17

minutes. Makes sense to me that that fourth iodine module could be getting

used up that way.

> >Except for bronzed skin, I think most other physical symptoms of adrenal

> >insufficiency can be associated with a myriad of dysfunctions, so a

> >definitive lab test makes sense to me.

>

> Definitive lab tests would be nice, but many people have died with

" perfect "

> labs. Just because you have low cholesterol doesn't mean your heart isn't

> going to give out. Labs point to things, but not in isolation, not

without

> careful understanding of the patient from patient history and clinical

> examination.

I wasn't trying to say that our current lab tests are definitive, unless a

person is so out of range that it's obvious there is a problem. Cholesterol

probably has minimal value for knowing how healthy the heart is, which

illustrates the problem of picking what to measure. Some tests do help to

sort out what is going on, but I agree they must if taken in consideration

with history and symptoms.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

>Qood question. I can't remember where I read it now, but someone claimed

>that the iodine in the thyroid is what sanitizes the blood as the whole

>blood supply is supposed to circulate through the thyroid like every 17

>minutes. Makes sense to me that that fourth iodine module could be getting

>used up that way.

That would be from the chapter in " Vermont Folk Medicine " by DC Jarvis,

which is excerpted at jcrows.com.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

High cortisol also can cause thyroid resistance and estrogen dominence.

jingles

> Excess cortisol causes insulin resistance by decreasing the

rate at

> which insulin activates the glucose uptake system. That would be

the

> anti-insulin effect you mentioned.

>