Re: Amino Acids / Insomnia / etc - message for Bob

[Guest guest]

Bob,

I was tested for Campylobacter in Dec. - not found. No pathogenic

parasites were found either.

Not tested for Helicobacter.

Interesting that you mention Nickel.

http://www.npi.gov.au/database/substance-info/profiles/62.html

My doc told me that many hair dyes for brown/dark hair contain nickel

as an ingredient. That puts a whole new slant on it doesn't it? Not

sure how toxic the nickel is in that form.

P

Did you get any Helicobacter or Campylobacter testing done?

Stainless steel source of nickel might be implicated as something

that could make it worse, if you have a Helicobacter Pylori

infection, for instance?

Bob

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

I've got well and truly hooked on this 'liver' angle.

It's looking like hepatic encephalopathy plays a role in

hypothyroidism.

Dys-regulated urea production and odd processing of amino acids with

elevated Glycine will clearly produce some mental ill-health symptoms

(no need to explain, many people get some of these symptoms on this

forum)...

elevated ammonia ( raises pH ~ blood/serum becomes alkaline) isn't

good for 'stability' and may affect how much histidine gets processed

to histamine, which then adds to the 'pot' of symptoms.

Did you have a complete Amino acid 'panel' done, or just the ones

reported?

best wishes

Bob

>

> Hi Bob,

> I thought I'd start a new thread, mainly because I didn't

> want 'having a teary' (or whatever it was) to be the ongoing thread

> title!!!! That day has passed and today is better, so onwards and

> upwards......

>

> 'Ferritin' keeps popping up everywhere. I haven't had that tested,

> so I will ask for my bloods to be tested.

>

> The Amino Acids stuff is quite complex really. It is interesting

> because it doesn't appear as though many other people have been

> tested, based on the lack of response to your post about it. I'm

> going to keep looking into it and will see another doc soon, so

will

> ask for their opinion and see if any further light is shed. Thanks

> for continuing to look into info about my results so that the info

> can be of possible use to others later. If I find out anything

> interesting I will post it.

>

> Thanks again Bob.

>

> P

>

>

>

>

> Hi P,

>

> It sounds as though you will have a busy day today; I hope it all

> goes well.

>

> Sleep deprivation will be a risk factor when 'out', so you are being

> positive in recognising that problem.

>

> I've noticed that I need to get between three and four hours sleep

to

> be able to reach the next 'sleep phase' (but that's much earlier

than

> is usual).

>

> I put some information together on Sleep Deprivation in my folder

> (Amylase etc). Low ferritin and/or fluorinated drugs may also

disrupt

> sleep phase.

>

> When you are rested, perhaps you can come back to this thread and I

> will take it from there.

>

>

> best wishes

> Bob

>

[Guest guest]

MODERATED TO REMOVE MESSAGES PREVIOUSLY READ. - SHEILA

__________________________________________________________

So do you mean that hepatic encephalopathy is one of the results of

Cirrhosis of the liver? The hepatic encephalopathy occurs due to

the increase in ammonia? This then affects the brain? Am I on the

right track? I'm not sure if I've got it right or not.

>

> Hi P,

>

> I've got well and truly hooked on this 'liver' angle.

>

> It's looking like hepatic encephalopathy plays a role in

> hypothyroidism.

>

> Dys-regulated urea production and odd processing of amino acids

with

> elevated Glycine will clearly produce some mental ill-health

symptoms

> (no need to explain, many people get some of these symptoms on

this

> forum)...

>

> elevated ammonia ( raises pH ~ blood/serum becomes alkaline) isn't

> good for 'stability' and may affect how much histidine gets

processed

> to histamine, which then adds to the 'pot' of symptoms.

>

> Did you have a complete Amino acid 'panel' done, or just the ones

> reported?

>

>

> best wishes

> Bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

21 tested.

within range were

tryptophan 55 (31-64 umol/L)

methionine 20 (16-37)

phenylalanine 48 (45-98)

glutamic acid 22 (21-230)

asparagine 41 (36-87)

serine 105 (83-157)

glutamine 535 (448-1029)

proline 136 (90-270)

taurine 54 (29-203)

alanine 350 (270-447)

isoleucine 42 (39-87)

>

> Did you have a complete Amino acid 'panel' done, or just the ones

> reported?

>

> best wishes

> Bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

I don't know if you've got cirrhosis, nor where it's come from, if so.

I'm just working on a basic surmise; if true, what are the

implications for long-term diet/drug avoidance/medications.

There was a post on ThyroidAbout some years ago, where the poster's

father had a liver ailment that was attributed to alcohol consumption.

In fact, it was more likely his latterly discovered familial

haemochromatosis adding to Hepatitis C and liver damage arising from

both, that left him in dire need of T3 ~ triiodothyronine <> luckily,

he survived (just), but only because the poster was clued up and

insisted on T3 being tried for what was obviously myxoedema.......

The relationship 'cause and effect' may not be clear if

hypothyroidism is the true precipitating factor. Whether they might

call it non-thyroidal illness is another matter.

best wishes

Bob

the 'right track' is for a doctor to decide; I can't second guess,

only provide clues :-)

I'm not medically qualified (only in chemistry)

> >

> > Hi P,

> >

> > I've got well and truly hooked on this 'liver' angle.

> >

> > It's looking like hepatic encephalopathy plays a role in

> > hypothyroidism.

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

I just advised someone locally in Bristol about the possibility of

all the family having Helicobacter Pylori infection if one member has

it.

Sure enough, her husband had it too, and her mother (most likely).

The incidence of H.Pylori is something like 35-45% globally, maybe

less here, but the relative frequency of immigrant populations

bringing it with them is likely to spread it further here, whatever

the current level is.

The overall rate of Tuberculosis is also linked to low vit D in

populations who have come here from countries with a sunnier climate.

Sanatoria (South coast, UK) were intended to allow people to recover

fom TB before the true nature of the cure (adequate vit D) became

known in the relatively recent past.

Of the infective processes that arise from low vit D, the many that

could cause liver damage (eg, all the hepatitis varieties), are

enhanced by the trace metals that can make things worse.

Low selenium in the diet, for instance, would be made worse by,

mercury exposure (they react in a stoichiometric manner). Low

selenium could lead to lowered deiodinase function in the liver. That

would, potentially, make all the blood/serum T3 (and other

deiodinated THs) measurements skewed.

If you are nickel sensitive, there is nickel plating under the gold

plating on the rims of some glasses. The green looking substance that

will eventually show up is a nickel salt and that may activate a skin

eruption/rash.

Likewise, any other inadvertent source of nickel, in such as

stainless steel adornments/watch straps, etc. could also cause

sensitisation.

The number and diversity of interactions in the food chain and within

the environment, make it almost impossible for a doctor to be able to

try and guess what has caused any particular symptoms.

(I've just got myself a permanent job there!)

I'm just going to revise my CV ...lol

best wishes

Bob

>

> Bob,

>

> I was tested for Campylobacter in Dec. - not found. No pathogenic

> parasites were found either.

>

> Not tested for Helicobacter.

>

> Interesting that you mention Nickel.

> http://www.npi.gov.au/database/substance-info/profiles/62.html

>

> My doc told me that many hair dyes for brown/dark hair contain

nickel

> as an ingredient. That puts a whole new slant on it doesn't it?

Not

> sure how toxic the nickel is in that form.

>

> P

>

>

>

> Did you get any Helicobacter or Campylobacter testing done?

>

> Stainless steel source of nickel might be implicated as something

> that could make it worse, if you have a Helicobacter Pylori

> infection, for instance?

>

> Bob

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

Thank you for this extra information; see if I can make sense of it.

Bob

>

> 21 tested.

>

> within range were

> tryptophan 55 (31-64 umol/L)

> methionine 20 (16-37)

> phenylalanine 48 (45-98)

> glutamic acid 22 (21-230)

> asparagine 41 (36-87)

> serine 105 (83-157)

> glutamine 535 (448-1029)

> proline 136 (90-270)

> taurine 54 (29-203)

> alanine 350 (270-447)

> isoleucine 42 (39-87)

>

> >

> > Did you have a complete Amino acid 'panel' done, or just the ones

> > reported?

> >

> > best wishes

> > Bob

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

I charted the data on an Excel Spreadsheet:-

BOB'S Research/AminoAcids Hypo.xls

It shows that Glutamic acid (and maybe taurine) is also low as a

percentage of the mean value.

best wishes

Bob

>

> 21 tested.

>

> within range were

> tryptophan 55 (31-64 umol/L)

> methionine 20 (16-37)

> phenylalanine 48 (45-98)

> glutamic acid 22 (21-230)

> asparagine 41 (36-87)

> serine 105 (83-157)

> glutamine 535 (448-1029)

> proline 136 (90-270)

> taurine 54 (29-203)

> alanine 350 (270-447)

> isoleucine 42 (39-87)

>

> >

> > Did you have a complete Amino acid 'panel' done, or just the ones

> > reported?

> >

> > best wishes

> > Bob

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob, When I was asking whether I was on the right track, I was

just talking in general terms and not referring to my case in

particular. I don't think I've got Cirrhosis. Just wondered

whether those things came about due to the condition you

mentioned. Just looking at how things can link in together.

I guess with all of this amino acids stuff, I'm just wondering what

it means as far as diet/health etc goes, rather than the

technicalities as to be honest I'm a bit of a chemistry dummy. I

think I'll just have another chat to the doc and ask for further

information because I could spend ages trying to guess what is going

on and I might be on the wrong track. Thanks for your help though.

P

>

> Hi P,

>

> I don't know if you've got cirrhosis, nor where it's come from, if

so.

>

> the 'right track' is for a doctor to decide; I can't second guess,

> only provide clues :-)

>

> I'm not medically qualified (only in chemistry)

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this info Bob. The whole Vit D deficiency thingo is quite

interesting.

P

>

[Guest guest]

It is very good of you to do this Bob. Thanks very much. I just

think I need to go back to the doc and ask more questions. As I

mentioned in my previous message, I am a bit of a chemistry dummy, so

when you give me some useful info about the biochemistry behind all of

this I try really hard to understand it, but I often don't really get

it. I think I need my doc to bring it back to absolute basics for me

and tell me what it all means in conjunction with the multitude of

other test results that I've got, in case there is a link. I really

appreciate your help and the table is an absolute bonus for me and I'd

love to keep it if you don't mind. Is that ok? One question I'll ask

the doc is 'where in the range do I need to be, given my health

issues?' For eg, it might be that being just within 'normal' range is

fine for me re my amino acids levels, but I just don't know. My doc

tells me that I ask questions that most of the other patients don't

ask, so I'll ask 'em to get the thinking cap on again about the amino

acids test results. Everything that we've discussed so far Bob points

to the fact that I need the doc to interpret the results in more

detail.

Thanks again for all your help and time trying to help me sort this

out.

P

>

> Hi P,

>

> I charted the data on an Excel Spreadsheet:-

> BOB'S Research/AminoAcids Hypo.xls

>

> It shows that Glutamic acid (and maybe taurine) is also low as a

> percentage of the mean value.

>

> best wishes

> Bob

>

[Guest guest]

[[...My doc tells me that I ask questions that most of the other

patients don't ask, so I'll ask 'em to get the thinking cap on

again about the amino acids test results. ..]]

Hi P,

I get the same response too!

Good luck, feel free to use the chart however is appropriate

best wishes

Bob

> >

> > Hi P,

> >

> > I charted the data on an Excel Spreadsheet:-

> > BOB'S Research/AminoAcids Hypo.xls

> >

> > It shows that Glutamic acid (and maybe taurine) is also low as a

> > percentage of the mean value.

> >

> > best wishes

> > Bob

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

I'm sorry I inferred the particular from the general.

I try and remember the location of information on topics according to

enquiry and person; the more associative, the better; it's a memory

trick....(apart from needing more folic acid?)

I don't recall anyone posting an amino acids test panel before.

Perhaps there are others who haven't posted them.

If I can remember where the information is stored, I can back-track

the reading that I did.

The long thread on another forum concerning a liver-associated

problem reminded me that I need to do some more reading on the

subject.

Thank you for sharing the amino acids information so that others

might gain insight.

An interesting aside; The volatile oils from e.g. nutmeg/myristicin

when mixed with ammonia (in liver? disease) can, in theory, form an

amphetamine, as can several other fragrant oils.

Amphetamines being psychoactive (hence, biologically active) one

wonders if the hypothyroid patient is particularly sensitive to these

volatile oils?

I always wondered if the meal that my wife made (nutmeg on top ~

placed in the oven ) was the cause of cardiac arrhythmia leading to

hospitalisation?

Amphetamines are otherwise called 'speed'.....a bit like caffeine..

best wishes

Bob

>

> Hi Bob, When I was asking whether I was on the right track, I was

> just talking in general terms and not referring to my case in

> particular. I don't think I've got Cirrhosis. Just wondered

> whether those things came about due to the condition you

> mentioned. Just looking at how things can link in together.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,

http://www.jbc.org/content/vol277/issue23/images/large/bc2128723007.jpeg

[[...The uptake of radiolabeled amino acids mediated by AGT1-4F2hc

fusion protein. The uptake rates of 20 µM radiolabeled amino acids

mediated by the AGT1-4F2hc fusion protein were measured in Na+-free

uptake solution. The high uptake rates were observed for L-aspartate

and L-glutamate....]]

might explain why those two are low.....one more question for the doc

best wishes

Bob

>

> It is very good of you to do this Bob. Thanks very much. I just

> think I need to go back to the doc and ask more questions.

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

Were you ever tested for hyperglycinemia or hyperglycinuria?

BW Bob

>

> Hi Bob,

> I thought I'd start a new thread, mainly because I didn't

> want 'having a teary' (or whatever it was) to be the ongoing thread

title!!!

[Guest guest]

Dear P,

http://www.jbc.org/content/168/2/405.full.pdf

ENDOCRINE REGULATION OF AMINO ACID LEVELS IN BLOOD AND TISSUES

This paper is from 1947 !

best wishes

Bob

> >> > Hi P,