Re: please help - i am in pain and am not quite sure what to do next

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

I'm sorry you're in pain; I guess a {{{hug}}} would be painful too.

Any signs of gout? too much protein ~ uric acid?

Low vit B12/folate ?

Does extra fluid help? (without caffeine)

best wishes

Bob

>

> hello all,

>

> i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> with my health.

[Guest guest]

Oh dear P - I am so sorry to hear that you are suffering from so much pain. You know me and T3 and my views - and i think your symptoms are due to a lack of the right dose of T3 - you need to be taking much more as all these symptoms can be caused because your tissues are trying to function with the amount of T3 they need. There must be a way you can increase this. If you go here http://www.plaidrabbit.com/fms/fibrom3.htm you can check out a chart that shows the pain areas in somebody with fibromyalgia, but even if it is fibromyalgia that is diagnosed, the treatment is T3.

Luv - Sheila

last night, i woke every time i moved because my joints hurt a lot. one time i woke up when i moved my fingers. it hurts to flex my fingers and my wrists. moving my feet hurt a great deal last night. the 'middle bit' under my foot was extremely sore last night. my hips ached tremendously, especially my right hip where i feel an occasional shooting pain. i am only in my early 40's. today i have been walking with a limp due to pain in my hips and the base of my spine. my fingers and wrists hurt a lot too. i used to be like this (but probably not quite so bad) when i was first diagnosed, but my doctor gave me a supplement with zinc, selenium etc and the 'arthritic like' pain simply went away. today i've had a lot of trouble standing up after being seated for a short while. i hobble along. PNo virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 09/08/2008 13:22

[Guest guest]

Hi there, I am with Bob on this one - uric acid/gout. Interestingly

vegetarians dont experience gout, so perhaps avoid beef,pork meat

products and sugar for a couple of weeks and lots of water, to see if

that makes any difference. There is also a connection between gout

and psirosis. Do you have a rash on your lower legs/calves? Also Hip

pain - perhaps alkalysing Spondalytis (sp) ??? But first I'd be

checking out the uric acid levels. Freeman

>

> hello all,

>

> i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> with my health.

>

> for those who don't know, i have hashimoto's disease and take T4 and

> T3 to control hypothyroidism. i can't take T3 on its own due to my

> previous experience on T3 alone.

>

> last night, i woke every time i moved because my joints hurt a lot.

> one time i woke up when i moved my fingers. it hurts to flex my

> fingers and my wrists. moving my feet hurt a great deal last night.

> the 'middle bit' under my foot was extremely sore last night. my hips

>

> P

>

[Guest guest]

Well look what I just found,

www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/uric-acid-in-blood?page=2

I have never ever seen uric acid connected to Hypothyroidism before -

how interesting is that...........(I have selectively cut and pasted bits)

High uric acid values may be caused by:

* Individual differences in the way your body produces or gets rid

of uric acid.

o Other disorders, such as alcohol dependence, preeclampsia,

liver disease (cirrhosis), obesity, psoriasis, hypothyroidism, and low

blood levels of parathyroid hormone.

# Eating foods that are very high in purines, such as organ meats

(liver, brains), red meats (beef, lamb), game meat (deer, elk), some

seafood (sardines, herring, scallops), and beer.

Hope that helps,

jennyfreeman

> hello all,

>

> i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> with my health.

>

> for those who don't know, i have hashimoto's disease and take T4 and

> T3 to control hypothyroidism. i can't take T3 on its own due to my

> previous experience on T3 alone.

>

> P

>

[Guest guest]

Also a bit more on relief of Uric acid/Gout.....

Vitamin C: good for gout

Natural Foods Merchandiser ; Supplementing with vitamin C may help

prevent gout by lowering blood levels of uric acid, reports Arthritis

and Rheumatism. While a previous study showed that taking a large dose

of vitamin C (8 grams per day) can lower blood levels of uric acid,

this is the first study to show that a relatively

www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P3-908249741.html

> hello all,

>

> i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> with my health.

>

>

> P

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Good to have you back with us again. I popped over to the about.com UK forum the other day and all I got was a notification telling me it wasn't there. I tried again another day, and still the same. Has it disappeared for the UK or have I got a wrong URL.

Luv - Sheila

.. No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1602 - Release Date: 09/08/2008 13:22

[Guest guest]

Hi Shelia,

Havent been into the about.com UK site for months.(became not nice in

there) very busy with other activities which have taken up my time

more and more. I do pop in here from time to time and have a read.

Its so busy that unless I have something constructive to add, I dont

add to the message load. I think that makes me a 'lurker' - lol

jennyfreeman

>

> Hi

>

> Good to have you back with us again. I popped over to the about.com

UK forum the other day and all I got was a notification telling me it

wasn't there.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P

Really sorry that you are suffering so badly. I totally sympathize as

I have gone through exactly the same myself.Just this week I have been

diagnosed with psoraitic arthritis and it has taken me many years to

get taken seriously. You symptoms sound exactly like mine and I would

advise that you go and see your GP and ask to be referred to a

rhumatologist as they have the difinative answers about this sort of

pain. Do NOT let your doctor fob you off. The pain is just awful and

the only thing that gave me any relief was anti inflammatory

tablets(Ipobrufin).I am now on other medication as prescribed by my

rhumatologist but they helped until I could get to see someone.Pain

and stiffness in the morning and when you sit for any length of time

are typical with this type (autoimmune)arthritis I am told.It also

'comes and goes 'so you think it is better when it is not.The normal

'markers for arthritis are missing with this type but there is often a

history of Psoriasis in the family. Don't leave it and hope it will go

away there is help out there.

Regards and good luck Frances

>

> hello all,

>

> i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> with my health.

>

> for those who don't know, i have hashimoto's disease and take T4 and

> T3 to control hypothyroidism. i can't take T3 on its own due to my

> previous experience on T3 alone.

>

> last night, i woke every time i moved because my joints hurt a lot.

> one time i woke up when i moved my fingers. it hurts to flex my

> fingers and my wrists. moving my feet hurt a great deal last night.

> the 'middle bit' under my foot was extremely sore last night. my hips

> ached tremendously, especially my right hip where i feel an occasional

> shooting pain. i am only in my early 40's.

>

> today i have been walking with a limp due to pain in my hips and the

> base of my spine. my fingers and wrists hurt a lot too. i used to be

> like this (but probably not quite so bad) when i was first diagnosed,

> but my doctor gave me a supplement with zinc, selenium etc and

> the 'arthritic like' pain simply went away.

>

> today i've had a lot of trouble standing up after being seated for a

> short while. i hobble along.

>

> i wrote about this some time ago, but the symptoms have exploded

> through the roof and I am in a lot of discomfort throughout the day.

> I look as though I have injured my legs because of my noticeable limp.

>

> i have been tested for rheumatoid arthritis plus a host of other

> inflammatory markers yet they have all come back as negative (thank

> goodness!).

>

> My TSH level is 1.1 (range of 0.5 - 4.0)

> Free T3 3.9 (range of 3.1 to 5.4 - and up from my previous level of

> 3.0 T3 levels increased after commencing T3 supplementation).

> Free T4 17 (range of 10 - 25)

>

> I do not think my symptoms has to do with the filler in my T3 as I use

> other products with the same filler and haven't had any problem with

> them whatsoever.

>

> I will try and get an appt with my doctor tomorrow as i'm not looking

> forward to remaining in pain.

>

> Any ideas? I've run out of them. )o:

>

> P

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P

Sending big {{{hugs}}} as I cannot help which is frustrating. I have

found the armour took the pain down considerably but not totally yet.

I know I have had the terrible pain in the back and hips, mine is

still there low grade and flares up more if I push myself, but

sometimes comes and goes for no reason at all.

All the suggestions here are better than anything I could possibly

come up with.

God bless and hope you get relief soon.

luv Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob,

I went to see the doctor today.

I will try having extra fluids and will see if that helps in some way.

I thought I was on to something when I read your (and another

person's) comments about uric acid. I asked the doc about it and they

told me they had tested for 'urate' quite recently and the levels were

fine. I didn't realise that 'urate' was the same thing as 'uric acid'.

Vitamin B12/folate levels were quite good.

It has puzzled the doc. In the last few months I've been using

progesterone cream and indole and even though the doc doesn't think it

is linked, they are still willing to look into it, especially since

the 'arthritic like' symptoms came back only after using those things.

They said that in all likelihood, it is probably not related, but

they will consider it. They are going to look into other things, but

right now I can't remember what they are going to look into (it is all

on tape and my fuddled brain can't remember it all. Thank goodness

this particular doc allows me to tape our sessions).

Now I am getting shooting pains which go from my wrist and along my

hand to my knuckles. Very uncomfortable. I also am getting stabbing

pains in my hips. Very unpleasant and quite painful.

Thanks so much for writing back.

P

> >

> > hello all,

> >

> > i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> > with my health.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks again for your reply. Trust me, if I thought I could take more

I would (just as a tester to see if it helped. I'm willing to try

anything to see if it will help) but I seem to have hit my limit at

5mcg twice a day. I'm dropping it to once a day sometimes because I

was getting increased anxiety symptoms on 5mcg twice a day.

Just out of curiosity, how much T3 is in Armour? We don't have Armour

over here, but can get Natural Thyroid Extract. If I decide to give

Natural Thyroid Extract a go (not that I want to do that right now,

but it is useful to have the info for the future, just in case), I

just need to make sure that it doesn't have heaps of T3 in it, or else

I'll be back to square one again.

Thanks for sending the link re fibromyalgia. I just wrote to Bob and

mentioned that I'm now getting a shooting pain in my hands. Very

unpleasant. Shooting pain in the hands and then a shooting pain in my

hips. Oh, what fun. I'm just hoping it goes away soon.

My doctor suggested a supplement that contains ginger, celery, and

boswellia (frankincense). Apparently it is a really good

anti-inflammatory and analgesic. I really hope it alleviates some of

my symptoms and pain. Here is some general information about

boswellia, for interest sake. It has apparently been used in

Ayurvedic medicine for years.

http://www.ayurvedic-medicines.com/herbs/shallaki.html

I no longer know what will and won't help.

P

> Oh dear P - I am so sorry to hear that you are suffering from so

much pain. You know me and T3 and my views - and i think your symptoms

are due to a lack of the right dose of T3 - you need to be taking much

more as all these symptoms can be caused because your tissues are

trying to function with the amount of T3 they need. There must be a

way you can increase this.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks so much for all of the info and the weblink etc. My doc showed

me that they had already recently tested for uric acid (urate) and the

levels were normal, so that rules out gout. I was excited when I saw

your message because I thought to myself 'maybe and Bob have

found the answer', but no, it isn't gout. Not that I want gout, but

it would be nice to know what is going on.

I don't really have any rashes or skin problems at all (except for

being sensitive to various cleaning products and bath products) and

don't have a problem with psiorasis. I checked out the condition on

an arthritis website and I don't seem to fit the bill.

I'm not sure what alkalysing spondalytis is so I'll look into it and

see if it is a possibility.

Funny that you mention the vego thing. I was actually thinking about

going vego for a while just to see if it makes a difference. I really

must drink more as I drink very little these days (especially since it

is cold and rainy over here so the urge to drink lots of fluid isn't

really with me).

Thanks again for writing to me about this. I appreciate it very much.

P

>

> Hi there, I am with Bob on this one - uric acid/gout.

Interestingly vegetarians dont experience gout, so perhaps avoid

beef,pork meat products and sugar for a couple of weeks and lots of

water, to see if that makes any difference. There is also a

connection between gout and psirosis. Do you have a rash on your

lower legs/calves? Also Hip pain - perhaps alkalysing Spondalytis (sp)

??? But first I'd be checking out the uric acid levels. Freeman

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This is interesting because my doc told me to make sure I take VitC to

help alleviate some of my symptoms (I think!).

P

>

> Also a bit more on relief of Uric acid/Gout.....

>

> Vitamin C: good for gout

> Natural Foods Merchandiser ; Supplementing with vitamin C may help

> prevent gout by lowering blood levels of uric acid, reports Arthritis

> and Rheumatism.

[Guest guest]

Dear Frances,

That is interesting. I discounted this because I don't have any spkin

problems, but you've made me think twice. I don't have any skin

conditions at all and neither did my mum or dad, nor my siblings.

I'm not sure about other members of the family because they all live

overseas. Do you know whether it still can be possible to have

psioratic arthritis, despite no known history of psoirasis in the

family? I can't actually say that no one suffered from psiorasis

(notice the 50 different spellings of that word?) because I'm really

not sure.

How do you test for this autoimmune disease? Do you know the name of

the test? If so, I'll look it up.

Next time I see my doc I'll ask about seeing a rheumatologist. I

didn't even think of asking to do that (even though upon reflection,

it seems an obvious thing to request). I don't want to deal with this

pain long term.

P

> >

> > hello all,

> >

> > i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> > with my health.

> >

> > for those who don't know, i have hashimoto's disease and take T4 and

> > T3 to control hypothyroidism. i can't take T3 on its own due to my

> > previous experience on T3 alone.

> >

> > last night, i woke every time i moved because my joints hurt a lot.

> > one time i woke up when i moved my fingers. it hurts to flex my

> > fingers and my wrists. moving my feet hurt a great deal last night.

> > the 'middle bit' under my foot was extremely sore last night. my

hips

> > ached tremendously, especially my right hip where i feel an

occasional

> > shooting pain. i am only in my early 40's.

> >

> > today i have been walking with a limp due to pain in my hips and the

> > base of my spine. my fingers and wrists hurt a lot too. i used

to be

> > like this (but probably not quite so bad) when i was first diagnosed,

> > but my doctor gave me a supplement with zinc, selenium etc and

> > the 'arthritic like' pain simply went away.

> >

> > today i've had a lot of trouble standing up after being seated for a

> > short while. i hobble along.

> >

> > i wrote about this some time ago, but the symptoms have exploded

> > through the roof and I am in a lot of discomfort throughout the day.

> > I look as though I have injured my legs because of my noticeable

limp.

> >

> > i have been tested for rheumatoid arthritis plus a host of other

> > inflammatory markers yet they have all come back as negative (thank

> > goodness!).

> >

> > My TSH level is 1.1 (range of 0.5 - 4.0)

> > Free T3 3.9 (range of 3.1 to 5.4 - and up from my previous level of

> > 3.0 T3 levels increased after commencing T3 supplementation).

> > Free T4 17 (range of 10 - 25)

> >

> > I do not think my symptoms has to do with the filler in my T3 as I

use

> > other products with the same filler and haven't had any problem with

> > them whatsoever.

> >

> > I will try and get an appt with my doctor tomorrow as i'm not looking

> > forward to remaining in pain.

> >

> > Any ideas? I've run out of them. )o:

> >

> > P

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello dear Dawn,

Hugs are always welcome.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

Interesting to know that the Armour reduced your pain somewhat. I

wish that you didn't have any pain at all.

Hug back to you from P

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

The indole sounds as though it might block something important.

Shooting pains may have a connection to l'Hermitte's syndrome low vit

B12, perhaps. It may be low effective levels of vit B12 or low

effective levels of folate even though the lab tests look OK.

MTHFR enzyme can be blocked and a critical metabolic process may come

to a grinding halt (with high homocysteine or it's loss in urine).

I don't know if that's what was causing some of my problems but my

memory was much improved after a few months on much higher levels of

folate (5mg/day). I can't have imagined this.

But I'm keeping a careful eye on the response of the vit B12 and any

possible neurological deficits ~ such as worsening of periferal

neuropathy.

I hope your doc takes a very careful look at what can go wrong as

opposed to what the lab results say.

best wishes

Bob

> > >

> > > hello all,

> > >

> > > i've been 'offline' for a while trying to work out what is going on

> > > with my health.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Pat,

If you can get it try a spray called Cryoderm - it contains

boswella,arnica,msm and ilex. I'd almost forgotten about it till you

mentioned boswella.

I have been using this spray to get rid of muscle and joint ache in my

shoulder and wrist,hand and fingers caused by a bad riding accident

in '91. I particularly needed it when I played golf but I haven't used

it much this year.

I have two bottles sitting in my medicine cabinet pity you are not in

the same country I would have sent you one cos I am sure not using much

of it atm.

I can vouch for it - when I used it, it took all the ache out of the

joint and lasted quite a time. it initially ices the point of contact.

Good huntin and hope you feel better soon.

M.

>

> My doctor suggested a supplement that contains ginger, celery, and

> boswellia (frankincense). Apparently it is a really good

> anti-inflammatory and analgesic. I really hope it alleviates some of

> my symptoms and pain. Here is some general information about

> boswellia, for interest sake. It has apparently been used in

> Ayurvedic medicine for years.

> http://www.ayurvedic-medicines.com/herbs/shallaki.html

>

> I no longer know what will and won't help.

>

> P

[Guest guest]

Hi - I know we say this all the time, that with thyroid blood tests

'normal' aint 'normal' - This can also apply with other blood tests

and I hope you have a copy of the uric acid blood tests to check yourself.

ie: where in the 'normal' range are your levels showing.

High dose Vitamin C (to tolerence) and cherries will ease any uric

acid if you do have that.

Sorry, I have an automatic 'scream' reaction if I hear the word

'normal' having been untreated for over 15 years cos docs said that to

me..............with a TSH of 4 (oh sooo normal) and crawling on the

floor. Its taken years to overcome the damage the docs 'normal' did

to me.

Double check everything, every single specialist/doc. They arent as

bright as they think they are...........

Freeman

> Hi ,

> Thanks so much for all of the info and the weblink etc. My doc showed

> me that they had already recently tested for uric acid (urate) and the

> levels were normal, so that rules out gout. Freeman

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P

You can read all about Armour in my response to the BTA Statement http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_armour.pdf , but the part you are interested tells you that Armour does have a higher amount of T3 compared to T4 than the relative amounts of T3 to T4 secreted by the human thyroid gland. However it is well documented that Armour is often more effective and is better tolerated than synthetic preparations of T4, T3 and T4/T3 combination. This is because the T3 in natural thyroid extract is absorbed more slowly than synthetic (purified, unbound) T3.

The normal thyroid gland contains approximately 200 mcg of T4 per gram of gland, and 15 mcgs of T3 per gram. The ratio of these two hormones in the circulation does not represent the ratio of the thyroid gland, since about 80% of peripheral T3 comes from monodeiodination of T4. Peripheral monodeiodination of T4 also results in the formation of reverse T3, which is iatrogenically inactive.

Luv - Sheila>Just out of curiosity, how much T3 is in Armour? We don't have Armourover here, but can get Natural Thyroid Extract. If I decide to giveNatural Thyroid Extract a go (not that I want to do that right now,but it is useful to have the info for the future, just in case), Ijust need to make sure that it doesn't have heaps of T3 in it, or elseI'll be back to square one again.

[Guest guest]

I had severe pain with L-thyroxine alone therapy. It was only when I changed to Armour that the pain left me. I definitely would be wheelchair bound had I not found Armour.

luv - Sheila

Hello dear Dawn,Hugs are always welcome.Thanks for your kind thoughts.Interesting to know that the Armour reduced your pain somewhat. Iwish that you didn't have any pain at all. Hug back to you from PNo virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1604 - Release Date: 11/08/2008 05:50

[Guest guest]

Hi Patasonia

I just noticed that you mentioned that you dont have Armour 'over

here' - can you advise what country you are in?

If you are in Australia, Armour is here, but under the name

'Dessicated Thyroid' and is available via compounding chemists.

jennyfreeman

>

> Hi Bob,

>

> I went to see the doctor today.

>

> I will try having extra fluids and will see if that helps in some

way.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P

Well I have no skin problems either and it was just a vague memory

that an Aunt of mine suffered from psoriasis that set things in motion

for me. It is evidently a genetic fault that causes the psoratic

arthritis and you can get the arthritis first then comes the skin

problems or vice versa.But you really should push to see a

rhumatologist as they are the experts.There are as far as I know no

difinative test for psoriatic arthritis but then I am no expert. As

this is all very new to me I am learning all the time about it. The

only thing I long for is to be pain free as I am sure is the case for you.

God luck and please let me know how you get on.

Regards Frances

>

> Dear Frances,

>

> That is interesting. I discounted this because I don't have any spkin

> problems, but you've made me think twice. I don't have any skin

> conditions at all and neither did my mum or dad, nor my siblings.

> I'm not sure about other members of the family because they all live

> overseas. Do you know whether it still can be possible to have

> psioratic arthritis, despite no known history of psoirasis in the

> family? I can't actually say that no one suffered from psiorasis

> (notice the 50 different spellings of that word?) because I'm really

> not sure.

>

> How do you test for this autoimmune disease? Do you know the name of

> the test? If so, I'll look it up.

>

> Next time I see my doc I'll ask about seeing a rheumatologist. I

> didn't even think of asking to do that (even though upon reflection,

> it seems an obvious thing to request). I don't want to deal with this

> pain long term.

>

> P

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi P,

Your doc won't be familiar with this paper, published yesterday, dealing with the intricacies of mitchondrial membrane potentials

but the inference is that a wider understanding of this subject is being confirmed by many researchers carrying out both theoretical and investigative studies.......

J. Biol. Chem, 10.1074/jbc.M802404200

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/M802404200v1?papetoc

Control over the contribution of the mitochondrial membrane potential (delta) and proton gradient (delta pH) to the protonmotive force (delta p): In silico studies

Jaroslaw Dzbek and Bernard Korzeniewski

other work recently published shows that about 1 in 200 may carry a mitochondrial mutation with pathogenic consequences.

this is far higher than was originally thought, and may account for failure to respond to thyroid hormones when symptoms indicate that they ought to work, even when lab tests show all results 'normal', this may still apply.

Which of the possible mutations may be present, depends on the symptoms, unless a mitochondrial genomic analysis is carried out to pinpoint the exact site of mutation, even then, the symptoms may not 'match' the mutation.

from another recent source L-Acetyl Carnitine may help where perhaps CoQ10 can be over-indulged (and potentially cause harm).

In treating a mitochondrially based illness, a doctor may need to literally stand on his/her head and rethink every aspect of treatment.

And especially, ask for help if/when they know that there is suspicion of 'other things going on' upon which subject they are not yet 'up-to-speed'.

Oz has many brilliant researchers and doctors ( some with well-deserved Nobel Prizes for sticking their necks out )

best wishes

Bob

-- In thyroid treatment , "patersonia" <patersonia@...> wrote:>> Hi Bob,> > I went to see the doctor today. > > I will try having extra fluids and will see if that helps in some way.

[Guest guest]

This is interesting, I think I might have completely lost the thread of the

conversation but I have had severe knee and leg pains the last time I took Levo

and now this time again and I have cut my tablet in half now and the pain is

going, could this be the Levo that is making my legs painful?

Michele

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Hi Frances,

Hope that you don't mind me asking another question. How did they

diagnose you? You mentioned there is no definitive test. How did

they work out it was psoriatic (yet another spelling!!!) arthritis.

I'm just asking so I can go along to my doc appt pre-armed with

information.

Cheers and hope to hear from you, as it would really help me to find

out about the diagnosis from you.

P

>

>There are as far as I know no

> difinative test for psoriatic arthritis but then I am no expert. As

> this is all very new to me I am learning all the time about it.

>