Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 I'm just hoping that my natural tendency to be constipated will somehow be alleviated as I finally get rid of all the stones (plus have improved health, digestion, etc.). Lori: Livatone helped me with my constipation when I had that problem with my GB. Also drinking organic apple juice helped. Then I found out that taking some magnesium citrate tables certainly helped. It also helped keep the bile ducts relaxed. So I used to take Solaray Magnesium Citrate tables every day too. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Hi, Lori: Well, I kept my GB for several years, and I will tell you-all, do the best that you can to keep it. It really does make a difference to have one. Oh, when I started out flushing, I had had a very bad GB attack that sent me to ER in Dec. of 2000. So after that, I decided to study up on it and do flushing. I went on Dr. Cabot's Liver-Cleansing diet and did good for a long time. But periodically I would have pains, so I had happened to find out about Beta-TCP from Dr. Mercola's Web site and that people with gallstones should be using that. The first year I did a bunch of cleansings. Wow, I got out a ton of stuff too. First, light greenish stones, yellowish, then like the next time I cleansed, maybe I'd get tons of that sand-looking stuff. One time I remember specifically that I passed some huge stones. One was a over an inch or so. It was very dark green with aqua streaks in it. Actually several, but that was the largest. And they stunk like crazy. After that particular cleanse, I was sore for several days like I had done 100 sit-ups. But I did feel so much better. Then the second year, I didn't do as many cleanses. That is when I should have kept doing them to get completely clear. That was my mistake. I think it was actually the second year when I found out about Beta-TCP and started in Sept that yet. So for a whole year, I never did a cleanse when I was taking the Beta-TCP. Heck, I can't remember, but I know it was a year almost to the day when I finally did another cleanse. It was near the end of Feb. of '03 when I did a cleanse. I was not feeling well, and it came on pretty quickly. So I had found out the preparation is just as important as the cleanse, so it usually took me a couple of weeks to prepare, drinking my 1 quart of organic apple juice per day, then eating healthier more like Dr. Cabot's diet. I did my cleanse at the end of Feb., but I didn't get a whole lot out. So in early March, I had a bad GB attack and went to the hospital. The ER doc was great at this particular hospital and had heard of the cleanses. So I waited until I felt better, about the mid part of April and did another cleanse. Still didn't get a whole lot out, not what I felt like I should have gotten. Couldn't figure out why I was still having pains. Well, shortly after that cleanse, I had another bad GB attack and went to ER again. I was close that time to saying, Just pull the darn thing out, but it was a small hospital and they hadn't gotten a new surgeon yet. He was due to start there in a few months. Keep in mind I don't have health insurance, which makes each visit terribly expensive. But this time they did an ultrasound and I had two very small stones at the neck of my GB. Well, the ER doc said, Susie, I think when you get better, you can get those out. They are extremely small. So I waited and in May did another cleanse. Only got out just a little bit, but I did a catch and there were a few tiny things in the catch, so I figured that I got it. Well, still didn't feel quite right after that. I started having lots of diarrhea, but figured that maybe I had eaten something that didn't agree with me. This went on for several weeks too. In mid-June my husband woke me up in the middle of the night saying that I was burning up, let's get to the hospital. I got up, went to the bathroom and I was turning yellow. It's really gross. Starts out at your head and moves down, the jaundice. Then the little hospital ships me by ambulance to a larger hospital where I can have surgery and find out what's going on. They did an ultrasound when I arrived, and turns out my two small stones had both passed and were in my common bile duct. One of them was blocking the bile causing pancreatitis. Anyway, while I was in the hospital there, got there about Friday morning around 4:00 a.m., I passed that sucker blocking the bile and didn't even know it, but the other one was still in there. After them starting me on antibiotics (and lots of pain medicine...wonderful stuff when you need it too!), I must have passed that stone sometime on Sat. because by Sat. afternoon, my yellow was disappearing. My pee looked like coffee. That's what it looks like when you get jaundice. Then I had an ERCP to get the other one. A day after that, I had GB surgery. But the surgeon didn't know if he could do the easy one because he was afraid of the scaring, needless to say I had the easy one. Then he said that my GB was 100% free of stones. I knew this before surgery from the ERCP. The only reason that I went ahead with the surgery, though, is because the walls of my GB had thickened, and that can be a sign of a precancerous condition. But I had no way of knowing. All in all, I think one should continue the cleansing until you're 100% free of stones. Like when you do a cleanse and nothing comes out, then I think you can do them periodically or twice a year or something. I'm thinking that that was my big mistake. However, about a month before I had surgery, my Bible study friend was telling me about a young man in his early 30s who had a wife and kids, had to have emergency GB surgery. When they went in his GB was eaten up with cancer. So see, that was still fresh on my mind. Hope this helps! Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Thank you so much for sharing that. Interestingly, my pee looked like coffee when I went without doing a cleanse for 6 months and just going into my next attack. I'm definitely going to keep up my flushes. That's where I made my mistake too the first time -- I let too many months go by without flushing because I was thinking, well if the stones are dissolving, I don't need to flush. Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!! Yeah, I think some do dissolve too. I really think that. I know that I must have had a wad of stones in there when I first started cleansing. All my ultrasound showed that time was stones in my GB, but it can't show everything. And I also think that many came from my liver. I did some checking with people who've had their GBs removed. One of my friends that I used to work with at a hospital had hers removed and regrets it, but basically she had to have hers removed the old-fashioned way. She's never been the same since. And she's older than I am. I'm now 52. Her daughter had hers removed and isn't having a hard problem digesting food. I found out a cousin of mine, also older than me, had hers removed and has the same problems that I do. So I'm wondering if age also plays a part in how you do digestion-wise. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 I do a parasite cleanse before and then several days after go visit a colon therapist after the flush (s Moritz recommends this). I'm not talking about just before the flush, I'm talking about generally, when the flushing and cleanses are all over. I think most of us here know the benefits of a parasite and colon cleanse before flushing -- I'm just hoping that my natural tendency to be constipated will somehow be alleviated as I finally get rid of all the stones (plus have improved health, digestion, etc.). Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: " Belskis " <brian0017@...> <gallstones > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: Re: Beta TCP > If your constipated you should not be flushing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Susie, I meant to ask you, I think you mentioned you no longer had your gallbladder. What happened? You said that the Beta TCP was really helping, you but you ended up having your gallbladder removed anyway. I was wondering if you'd be okay sharing your experience. I just received my Livatone today but am holding off until I've done this parasite cleanse (which has already taken care of my excessive saliva problem). Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: <Tishri7@...> <gallstones > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Beta TCP > > Livatone helped me with my constipation when I had that problem with my > GB. > Also drinking organic apple juice helped. Then I found out that taking > some > magnesium citrate tables certainly helped. It also helped keep the bile > ducts relaxed. So I used to take Solaray Magnesium Citrate tables every > day too. > > Susie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Thank you so much for sharing that. Interestingly, my pee looked like coffee when I went without doing a cleanse for 6 months and just going into my next attack. I'm definitely going to keep up my flushes. That's where I made my mistake too the first time -- I let too many months go by without flushing because I was thinking, well if the stones are dissolving, I don't need to flush. Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!! Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: <Tishri7@...> <gallstones > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:38 PM Subject: Re: Beta TCP > Hi, Lori: > > Well, I kept my GB for several years, and I will tell you-all, do the best > that you can to keep it. It really does make a difference to have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Everybody who gets chronic cholecystitis will have thickened gallbladder walls. The gallbladder shrinks and the walls thicken. On the other hand, in acute cholecystitis, the gallbladder is distended and painful. So these two conditions are actually part of a " cycle " , and a diseased gallbladder can fluctuate between the two ad nauseum. Now there are a few posts in the gallbladder group at Curezone.com from people whose gallbladder walls had thickened, and then thinned down again. Aside from that there was a cohort study on ECIWO acupuncture at Shandong University in China carried out on several hundred GB patients where ECIWO (electrostimulation of acupuncture points on the fingers) reportedly " restored normal size and wall thickness " to all but 8 patients. In any case, also, the marker of gallbladder cancer is not just thickened walls. If I remember correctly it is an enlarged GB with thickened walls. Nearly everbody else here with chronic GB disease will have a small gallbladder with thickened walls. Finally, it is important to remember that removing a cancerous GB will only be successful if the cancer has not spread to the bile ducts and other tissues. In the light of this, it is also well to remember one case back in the 1930's where GB cancer (of course I'm not sure how they diagnosed it) was completely reversed by administering extremely dilute hydrochloric acid over a month or so. Now I believe your beta-TCP contains beets. Beets contain betaine which stimulate the stomach and the GB to start producing their own hydrochloric acid again as per normal. So it would appear that beta-TCP would be a product of choice to take even in a GB cancer situation. Again, GB cancer was " completely cured " in 2 out of 2 cases with Chinese herbs as reported by herbchina2000.com. I don't know if those 2 people received surgery however. But if they didn't, and if that report is true, it is of phenomenal importance. Because if GB cancer can be reversed even in 2 people, at least it shows that it is possible. Cancer is a systemic disease and I believe it is pointless to keep on cutting out " infected " sites as soon as they are discovered. Cancer requires a systemic herbal treatment, but if and only if all such attempts fail, then I would go for radiation, but the less destructive kinds - thermal, proton (less damaging) radiation or Cyberknife radiation. Before resorting to surgery, at least. Best Max ----- Original Message ----- From: <Tishri7@...> <gallstones > Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 8:38 AM Subject: Re: Beta TCP > Hi, Lori: > > Well, I kept my GB for several years, and I will tell you-all, do the best > that you can to keep it. It really does make a difference to have one. > > Oh, when I started out flushing, I had had a very bad GB attack that sent > me > to ER in Dec. of 2000. So after that, I decided to study up on it and do > flushing. I went on Dr. Cabot's Liver-Cleansing diet and did good > for a > long time. But periodically I would have pains, so I had happened to > find > out about Beta-TCP from Dr. Mercola's Web site and that people with > gallstones > should be using that. > > The first year I did a bunch of cleansings. Wow, I got out a ton of stuff > too. First, light greenish stones, yellowish, then like the next time I > cleansed, maybe I'd get tons of that sand-looking stuff. One time I > remember > specifically that I passed some huge stones. One was a over an inch or > so. It was > very dark green with aqua streaks in it. Actually several, but that was > the > largest. And they stunk like crazy. After that particular cleanse, I > was > sore for several days like I had done 100 sit-ups. But I did feel so much > better. > > Then the second year, I didn't do as many cleanses. That is when I > should > have kept doing them to get completely clear. That was my mistake. I > think > it was actually the second year when I found out about Beta-TCP and > started in > Sept that yet. So for a whole year, I never did a cleanse when I was > taking > the Beta-TCP. Heck, I can't remember, but I know it was a year almost to > the day when I finally did another cleanse. > > It was near the end of Feb. of '03 when I did a cleanse. I was not > feeling > well, and it came on pretty quickly. So I had found out the preparation > is > just as important as the cleanse, so it usually took me a couple of weeks > to > prepare, drinking my 1 quart of organic apple juice per day, then eating > healthier more like Dr. Cabot's diet. I did my cleanse at the end of > Feb., but I > didn't get a whole lot out. So in early March, I had a bad GB attack and > went to the hospital. The ER doc was great at this particular hospital > and had > heard of the cleanses. So I waited until I felt better, about the mid > part of > April and did another cleanse. Still didn't get a whole lot out, not > what I > felt like I should have gotten. Couldn't figure out why I was still > having > pains. > > Well, shortly after that cleanse, I had another bad GB attack and went to > ER > again. I was close that time to saying, Just pull the darn thing out, > but > it was a small hospital and they hadn't gotten a new surgeon yet. He was > due > to start there in a few months. Keep in mind I don't have health > insurance, > which makes each visit terribly expensive. But this time they did an > ultrasound and I had two very small stones at the neck of my GB. Well, > the ER doc > said, Susie, I think when you get better, you can get those out. They > are > extremely small. > > So I waited and in May did another cleanse. Only got out just a little > bit, > but I did a catch and there were a few tiny things in the catch, so I > figured that I got it. Well, still didn't feel quite right after that. > I started > having lots of diarrhea, but figured that maybe I had eaten something > that > didn't agree with me. This went on for several weeks too. In mid-June > my > husband woke me up in the middle of the night saying that I was burning > up, let's > get to the hospital. I got up, went to the bathroom and I was turning > yellow. It's really gross. Starts out at your head and moves down, the > jaundice. > > > Then the little hospital ships me by ambulance to a larger hospital where > I > can have surgery and find out what's going on. They did an ultrasound > when I > arrived, and turns out my two small stones had both passed and were in my > common bile duct. One of them was blocking the bile causing > pancreatitis. > Anyway, while I was in the hospital there, got there about Friday morning > around > 4:00 a.m., I passed that sucker blocking the bile and didn't even know > it, > but the other one was still in there. After them starting me on > antibiotics > (and lots of pain medicine...wonderful stuff when you need it too!), I > must > have passed that stone sometime on Sat. because by Sat. afternoon, my > yellow > was disappearing. My pee looked like coffee. That's what it looks like > when > you get jaundice. > > Then I had an ERCP to get the other one. A day after that, I had GB > surgery. But the surgeon didn't know if he could do the easy one because > he was > afraid of the scaring, needless to say I had the easy one. Then he said > that my > GB was 100% free of stones. I knew this before surgery from the ERCP. > The > only reason that I went ahead with the surgery, though, is because the > walls > of my GB had thickened, and that can be a sign of a precancerous > condition. > But I had no way of knowing. > > All in all, I think one should continue the cleansing until you're 100% > free > of stones. Like when you do a cleanse and nothing comes out, then I > think > you can do them periodically or twice a year or something. I'm thinking > that > that was my big mistake. However, about a month before I had surgery, my > Bible study friend was telling me about a young man in his early 30s who > had a > wife and kids, had to have emergency GB surgery. When they went in his > GB was > eaten up with cancer. So see, that was still fresh on my mind. > > Hope this helps! > Susie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tishri7@...<mailto:Tishri7@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: Beta TCP I'm just hoping that my natural tendency to be constipated will somehow be alleviated as I finally get rid of all the stones (plus have improved health, digestion, etc.). The reason you have gall stones is related (same thing) that causes you to be constipated. Unfortunately, getting rid of the gallstones does little for the underlying constitutional tendency. Fix the constipation, no longer create gallstones. Get rid of the gallstones, do not balance the constitutional tendency, create more gallstones to remove at a later point in time. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Lori, constipation can be caused by insufficient magnesium but more importantly, insufficient b6 to activate the mag. I started taking P5P with the mag and for the first time in 40 years am regular. I think I may have a genetic deficiency in converting B6 to its active form. (eating fermented foods really helps as well - the more lactic acid the better) ne -----Original Message----- From: gallstones [mailto:gallstones ]On Behalf Of Lori Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:18 PM gallstones Subject: Beta TCP Thanks for writing. I still have my gallbladder but it is confusing about Beta-TCP and Beta Plus because I don't know if I have insufficient bile (Beta-TCP) or that it's too thick and needs to be thinned (Beta Plus). I would have to go see a doctor about that am I'm not insured. As I am going through all this flushing, I feel like I'm uncovering new layers. It's been wonderful (especially not having the attacks), but I can see where I'm still just at the surface of what's going on. I think the insufficient or thick bile may be the reason why I'm so constipated still all the time. Should I simply be patient and see how my body responds once I have expelled all the stones or is there something else going on? I do know that insufficient bile can cause gallstones. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of all this (and apparently it's got layers like an onion). I haven't re-ordered the stuff from sensiblehealth.com -- perhaps I need to simply stick with what works. I know that was amazing. I only have the Chinese Bitters that I'm using now. But then all of you could tell me to get a life and go see a doctor anyway, but I'd really like to avoid that. Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I may order the Beta TCP soon but need to get five spare minutes to call them to ask them the difference between the TCP and the Plus. Hi, Lori: Pardon me for butting in, but I'm probably the one who needs the Beta-Plus because I don't have a gallbladder anymore. It's bile salts, which I need. The Beta-TCP is basically the one most people need who still have a gallbladder with gallstones. I have heard of some people taking it, though, who have a gallbladder, meaning the Beta-Plus. So I don't mean to tell you that you absolutely don't need Beta-Plus, but the TCP is made specifically for people who have GB problems. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 ne, thank you. I've been increasing ground flax in my diet combined with ground almonds and sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds (all raw) (per Cabot's book) and am doing much, much better. Also, does anybody have an opinion on taking calcium and magnesium separate from each other so the calcium doesn't interfere with what the magnesium was doing? I always thought they were best taken together. I'm trying to avoid supplementing too much, and getting my vitamins and minerals from whole foods whenever possible. Right now I'm trying the Livatone and will give that a try for about six months. I may order the Beta TCP soon but need to get five spare minutes to call them to ask them the difference between the TCP and the Plus. Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: " ne " <slrautio@...> <gallstones > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:23 PM Subject: RE: Beta TCP > Lori, > constipation can be caused by insufficient magnesium but more importantly, > insufficient b6 to activate the mag. I started taking P5P with the mag > and > for the first time in 40 years am regular. I think I may have a genetic > deficiency in converting B6 to its active form. (eating fermented foods > really helps as well - the more lactic acid the better) > ne > > -----Original Message----- > From: gallstones [mailto:gallstones ]On > Behalf Of Lori > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:18 PM > gallstones > Subject: Beta TCP > > > Thanks for writing. I still have my gallbladder but it is confusing about > Beta-TCP and Beta Plus because I don't know if I have insufficient bile > (Beta-TCP) or that it's too thick and needs to be thinned (Beta Plus). I > would have to go see a doctor about that am I'm not insured. As I am > going > through all this flushing, I feel like I'm uncovering new layers. It's > been > wonderful (especially not having the attacks), but I can see where I'm > still > just at the surface of what's going on. I think the insufficient or thick > bile may be the reason why I'm so constipated still all the time. > > Should I simply be patient and see how my body responds once I have > expelled > all the stones or is there something else going on? I do know that > insufficient bile can cause gallstones. I'm just trying to get to the > bottom of all this (and apparently it's got layers like an onion). > > I haven't re-ordered the stuff from sensiblehealth.com -- perhaps I need > to > simply stick with what works. I know that was amazing. I only have the > Chinese Bitters that I'm using now. > > But then all of you could tell me to get a life and go see a doctor > anyway, > but I'd really like to avoid that. > > Lori > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, over 7.000 liver flush stories: > http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=4 > http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=80 > http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=100 > http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=112 > > Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/ > > Liver Flush FAQ: http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=73 > > Images: > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/ > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/ > > To unsubscribe, send blank e-mail to: > gallstones-unsubscribe and then reply to confirmation > message! > > To Post message: gallstones > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe > > Web Sites for more information: > http://CureZone.org > http://www.liverdoctor.com/ > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/ > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html > http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/ > > Group page: gallstones > > To change your subscription to digest send blank e-mail to: > gallstones-digest > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-mail to: > gallstones-nomail > To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank e-mail to: > gallstones-normal > You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the > Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold > yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! > Have a nice day ! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Lori: If you'll go and search out Dr. Mercola's Web site, you'll see what I'm talking about too. Just do a search when you get there on Beta-TCP and/or Gallstones or something. He has several articles. Hope you're helped by it. I know that I was. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Susie, thanks for clarifying that, thank you thank you thank you. You calling it butting in, I call it being extremely helpful. Thanks. I couldn't tell from the description at the website (but I've been known to be clueless at times as well). I was wondering if my underlying problem was either thickened bile or just not producing enough of it. I think the Plus is for the " not producing enough of it " types, but it does make sense for those who no longer have their gallbladder. So TCP it will be. Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: <Tishri7@...> <gallstones > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Beta TCP > Hi, Lori: > > Pardon me for butting in, but I'm probably the one who needs the Beta-Plus > because I don't have a gallbladder anymore. It's bile salts, which I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 being constipated can be linked to low thyroid levels---best to check into this as well-----fyi --- In gallstones , " Lori " <skydanse@q...> wrote: > > I do a parasite cleanse before and then several days after go visit a colon > therapist after the flush (s Moritz recommends this). I'm not talking > about just before the flush, I'm talking about generally, when the flushing > and cleanses are all over. I think most of us here know the benefits of a > parasite and colon cleanse before flushing -- I'm just hoping that my > natural tendency to be constipated will somehow be alleviated as I finally > get rid of all the stones (plus have improved health, digestion, etc.). > > Lori > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Belskis " <brian0017@j...> > <gallstones > > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:12 AM > Subject: Re: Beta TCP > > > > If your constipated you should not be flushing > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 I'd like to find out about that. It sounds like a good idea. As long as I can send it off and not have to go through a doctor, that would be wonderful. I do have a naturopath, but still ... Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: <Tishri7@...> <gallstones > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:12 PM Subject: Re: Re: Beta TCP > >>>being constipated can be linked to low thyroid levels---best to > check into this as well-----fyi > > > > > > There's a place on the Internet where you can purchase a kit and you send > your sample off and they test it. I did that once too. > > Susie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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