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Hi romould,

I went to emergency a few years ago. I was told to change my diet or at least

get surgery. I was also told that things can get complicated with the

pancreatic problems. I changed my diet. I went to low fat foods. I mostly ate

fruit and vegitables. I cut out butter/marg. I only used mustard. I cut out

sugar, milk products and alcohol, chocolate, smokes and and anything with

cholesteral like eggs. I have been very careful. I went to emergency two years

ago when I ate two boiled eggs. I was in bad pain for 36 hours. Again, I had

an ultrasound and liver blood tests. The doc said to stay off eggs or just eat

egg whites. I am still on my low fat lifestyle. I've become more moderate in

the last year. I mostly drink water. But I have a glass of wine a day and some

tea once in a while. As you can see, it requires a lot of discipline to change

your lifestyle. I really want to keep my gallbladder. Do You? If not, I would

try to still change to a low fat, no citrus, no

alcohol, no sugar, no smoking lifestyle. It is dangerous to go into surgery

with these kinds of problems. Try to prepare for surgery. Who knows, you may

work through your decision without creating more of a crisis. I have a

harmless, 7 step plan called Learning to Do Something for Yourself.

Self-Protection and Crisis Planning. Personal Relapse Prevention Planning.

Step 1: Problem Idendification: First you have to identify what is causing the

difficulty. What is the problem?

Step 2: Problem Clarification: Be specific and complete. Is this the real

problem or is there a more fundamental problem?

Step 3: Identification of Alternatives: What are your options for dealing with

the problem? List them on paper so you can readily see them. Try to list at

least five possible solutions. This will give you more chance of choosing the

best solution and give you some alternatives if your first choice doesn't work.

Step 4: Projected consequences of each alternative: What are the probable

outcomes of each option? Ask yourself these 3 questions: What is the best

possible thing that could happen if I choose this alternative? What is the

worst possible thing that could happen? What is the most likely thing that will

happen?

Step 5: Decision: Which option offers you the best outcomes and seems to be

the most reasonable choice for a solution? Make a decision based upon the

alternatives you have.

Step 6: Action: Once you have decided upon a solution to the problem you need

to plan how you will carry it out. Making a plan answers the question, " what am

I going to do about it? " A plan is a road map to achieve a goal. There are

long range goals and short range goals. Long-range goals are achieved with

short range goals. One step at a time.

Step 7: Follow up: Carry out your plan and evaluate how it is working.

Obviously, the above is good general advice. I was spooked by my

experience and it sounds like your gallbladder problem is worse than mine. If

you keep getting pain, you need to have a lifestyle change. I wish you the best

of luck. Mike.

romould <romould@...> wrote:

I had three attacks of abdomen pain.

First - July'05, Lasted for 2 hours, went to ER, Ultrasound showed

Gallstone

Second - September, Lasted One hour

Third - October 18th, Lasted 2 days (survived on painkillers), went

to ER,was diagnosed with Pancreatitis. Had to spent 4 days in

hospital on IV.

The pain is gone. Doctor has advised to remove GallBladder.

I am concerend about loosing the GallBladder.

Is the flush advisable in my situation ?

What's the procedure (I am confused by the variations) ?

Should I wait , since I had Pancreatitis ?

I have developed rash on my hands, after I was released from the

hospital, any clue what's the possibility?

Also I still feel bloated and pass gas .

Thanks in advance

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Dear Mike , I'm afraid I have different advice for Romould than yours and

I'll tell you

why. I appreciate and share your desire to keep my GB, plus I am willing to do

any

necessary lifestyle or diet changes to keep the surgeons at bay. I too have had

gallstone-

induced pancreatitis and subsequent hospitalization and recovery. I had many

lifestyle

issues to correct.

However, I believe that for most people your low fat diet approach is unhealthy

and not a

holistic means of achieving the goal. Additionally, I believe it could lead to

far deeper

problems. I wonder, for example, how you will get your fat-soluble vitamins

(A,D,E,K,G)

and your essential fatty acids?

Your approach reminds me of the joke Click and Clack (the MPR car advice guys)

play on

people who call in and say something like " I have a car that develops a

vibrating noise at

55 mph " . They say (in unison!) " DON'T DRIVE 55! " Funny, but it ain't no cure.

It's abundantly clear that people in the POST-ATTACK period must be extremely

careful

with fat and spice intake but eventually I believe almost everyone can and

should ramp

back up to a clean and healthy diet filled with healthy fats. I also believe

that, in general,

we are coming to the end of the Dean Ornish-inspired Fat-o-phobia period. A diet

filled

with healthy fats is perhaps the only natural way to establish and maintain a

good flow of

bile, a flow free of stones and sludge. We are certainly all different, but it's

working for me.

Will in Minnesota

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I also agree and one of the biggest problems is in the transport of

hormones if your lipid level isn't high enough. Adrenal fatigue can

happen when we don't have enough fats to transport the hormones.

But Will a question for you--what if you have calcium stones and not

from a high lipid level?

Or are they stones that have calcified once they are stuck in the

gallbladder?

For myself I have a low lipid levels and have gallstoness--ingesting

fats will cause me to have an attack. A slight one---pain in the

right side, throbbing type of pain and pain in the back as well.

Ordinarily I would do all my own research but I run a thyroid group

so all my time is helping them.

I guess I need to find time for myself!!

thanks for any thoughts---tina

--- In gallstones , " Will Winter " <holistic@v...>

wrote:

>

> Dear Mike , I'm afraid I have different advice for Romould

than yours and I'll tell you

> why. I appreciate and share your desire to keep my GB, plus I am

willing to do any

> necessary lifestyle or diet changes to keep the surgeons at bay. I

too have had gallstone-

> induced pancreatitis and subsequent hospitalization and recovery.

I had many lifestyle

> issues to correct.

>

> However, I believe that for most people your low fat diet approach

is unhealthy and not a

> holistic means of achieving the goal. Additionally, I believe it

could lead to far deeper

> problems. I wonder, for example, how you will get your fat-

soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K,G)

> and your essential fatty acids?

>

> Your approach reminds me of the joke Click and Clack (the MPR car

advice guys) play on

> people who call in and say something like " I have a car that

develops a vibrating noise at

> 55 mph " . They say (in unison!) " DON'T DRIVE 55! " Funny, but it

ain't no cure.

>

> It's abundantly clear that people in the POST-ATTACK period must

be extremely careful

> with fat and spice intake but eventually I believe almost everyone

can and should ramp

> back up to a clean and healthy diet filled with healthy fats. I

also believe that, in general,

> we are coming to the end of the Dean Ornish-inspired Fat-o-phobia

period. A diet filled

> with healthy fats is perhaps the only natural way to establish and

maintain a good flow of

> bile, a flow free of stones and sludge. We are certainly all

different, but it's working for me.

>

> Will in Minnesota

>

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Right on Will,

From my own experience I believe being vegan eating a

diet completely void of saturated fats is what caused

my gallbladder problems to begin with.

I think I was eating way too many plant nuts ( I was

on a raw kick too) and that puts a strain on your

gallbladder.

When I went back to slowly eating eggs, lecithin

drinking water, eating organic butter, lots of it

(butter contains lecithin) and eating Grass fed free

range bison, including other things I did, I got

relief.

Of course it was a slow process and it included

exercising an hour daily, drinking tons of water which

has even stopped attacks for me and greens and other

things.

That's my two cents.

--- Will Winter <holistic@...> wrote:

> Dear Mike , I'm afraid I have different advice

> for Romould than yours and I'll tell you

> why. I appreciate and share your desire to keep my

> GB, plus I am willing to do any

> necessary lifestyle or diet changes to keep the

> surgeons at bay. I too have had gallstone-

> induced pancreatitis and subsequent hospitalization

> and recovery. I had many lifestyle

> issues to correct.

>

> However, I believe that for most people your low fat

> diet approach is unhealthy and not a

> holistic means of achieving the goal. Additionally,

> I believe it could lead to far deeper

> problems. I wonder, for example, how you will get

> your fat-soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K,G)

> and your essential fatty acids?

>

> Your approach reminds me of the joke Click and Clack

> (the MPR car advice guys) play on

> people who call in and say something like " I have a

> car that develops a vibrating noise at

> 55 mph " . They say (in unison!) " DON'T DRIVE 55! "

> Funny, but it ain't no cure.

>

> It's abundantly clear that people in the POST-ATTACK

> period must be extremely careful

> with fat and spice intake but eventually I believe

> almost everyone can and should ramp

> back up to a clean and healthy diet filled with

> healthy fats. I also believe that, in general,

> we are coming to the end of the Dean Ornish-inspired

> Fat-o-phobia period. A diet filled

> with healthy fats is perhaps the only natural way to

> establish and maintain a good flow of

> bile, a flow free of stones and sludge. We are

> certainly all different, but it's working for me.

>

> Will in Minnesota

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

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Tina, you bring up an excellent and overlooked topic here, the

fact that most of us with solidified cholesterol stones also have

some tendency towards CALCIFIED stones as well. They appear

to be separate but oft-related problems.

What you refer to is a body aligned to create EXCESS

MINERALIZATION. The same imbalance could give you kidney

stones, osteoarthritis, atherosclerosis, spondylitis and other

depositions. It really needs to be addressed.

I don't know where you live but I would highly recommend you

seek out a professional holistic doctor to guide you out of this.

Convention MDs remain hopelessly clueless, at least 99.9% of

them. You will eventually be able to track the source of the

hyper-mineralization. I would also tend to steer you towards a

practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine. If you find one of the

good ones, who really knows TCM, they wil go directly to the root

of your illness.

It's my belief that no human can survive very long unless they can

heal their body to the point where they can take in a full and

balanced complement of fats, carbohydrates, proteins and

minerals. Anything less is dangerous palliation. You sound

stuck where you are.

Additionally, how are you being a holistic healer if you are

denying your own health and salvation because you don't have

time to heal yourself all due to the task of SAVING OTHERS?

Can you say " MARTYR SYNDROME " ?

Will, in Minnesota

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Cultures that have low fat diets are proven healthier and have

much lower cancer and heart disease . The same cultures when

americanized and eat american foods have higher cancer and heart

disease rates. The statistics dont lie.

Your preception is based on your own emotiions and your own lust

for fat foods;

There are healthy fats and oils I do agree, but I am not

hearing details here.

Will Winter wrote:

> Dear Mike , I'm afraid I have different advice for Romould than

> yours and I'll tell you

> why. I appreciate and share your desire to keep my GB, plus I am

> willing to do any

> necessary lifestyle or diet changes to keep the surgeons at bay. I too

> have had gallstone-

> induced pancreatitis and subsequent hospitalization and recovery. I

> had many lifestyle

> issues to correct.

>

> However, I believe that for most people your low fat diet approach is

> unhealthy and not a

> holistic means of achieving the goal. Additionally, I believe it could

> lead to far deeper

> problems. I wonder, for example, how you will get your fat-soluble

> vitamins (A,D,E,K,G)

> and your essential fatty acids?

>

> Your approach reminds me of the joke Click and Clack (the MPR car

> advice guys) play on

> people who call in and say something like " I have a car that develops

> a vibrating noise at

> 55 mph " . They say (in unison!) " DON'T DRIVE 55! " Funny, but it

> ain't no cure.

>

> It's abundantly clear that people in the POST-ATTACK period must be

> extremely careful

> with fat and spice intake but eventually I believe almost everyone can

> and should ramp

> back up to a clean and healthy diet filled with healthy fats. I also

> believe that, in general,

> we are coming to the end of the Dean Ornish-inspired Fat-o-phobia

> period. A diet filled

> with healthy fats is perhaps the only natural way to establish and

> maintain a good flow of

> bile, a flow free of stones and sludge. We are certainly all

> different, but it's working for me.

>

> Will in Minnesota

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Learn more from our experience, over 7.000 liver flush stories:

> http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=4

> http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=80

> http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=100

> http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=112

>

> Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

>

> Liver Flush FAQ: http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=73

>

> Images:

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

> http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

>

> To unsubscribe, send blank e-mail to:

> gallstones-unsubscribe and then reply to confirmation

> message!

>

> To Post message: gallstones

> Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe

>

> Web Sites for more information:

> http://CureZone.org

> http://www.liverdoctor.com/

> http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

> http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

> http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

> http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

>

> Group page: gallstones

>

> To change your subscription to digest send blank e-mail to:

> gallstones-digest

> To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-mail to:

> gallstones-nomail

> To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank e-mail to:

> gallstones-normal

> You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

> Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to

> hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> Have a nice day !

>

>

>

>

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The weird thing is that hubby has kidney stones and we eat very well-

-always well balanced--lot of veggies, fruits, proteins--fiber ect.

I have had a cat scan and so far the kidneys and liver do not have

stones. But that could just be a matter of time?

The excess mineralization I think is due to digestive issues that

are age related so I have been taking HCL with a large meal and that

has helped digest food as well as the typical digestive enzyme one

can buy almost anywhere.

I have also bought some cheletion meds but have not tried them yet.

My calcium levels are normal not excessive (hubby's are higher than

mine)

and I do have OA in my knees and hips have had it for sometime now.

I was always an athlete. The OA in the knees has improved a great

deal on joint supplements.

The Martyr syndrom no---just doing too much and it takes years to be

well versed on a subject. Took me at least 5 studying thyroid and

it's related conditions. ( and I totally respect someone knowing

more than me on a subject I have not studied)

The majority of low thyroid people will also have gallbladder

problems or have them taken out before they even know they have the

thyroid disease. (it's because of the digestion issue).

The underlying disease state is always reflected in other

tissues/organs.

Finding the exact cause is always difficult!!!!!!!!

tina

--- In gallstones , " Will Winter " <holistic@v...>

wrote:

>

>

> Tina, you bring up an excellent and overlooked topic here, the

> fact that most of us with solidified cholesterol stones also have

> some tendency towards CALCIFIED stones as well. They appear

> to be separate but oft-related problems.

>

> What you refer to is a body aligned to create EXCESS

> MINERALIZATION. The same imbalance could give you kidney

> stones, osteoarthritis, atherosclerosis, spondylitis and other

> depositions. It really needs to be addressed.

>

> I don't know where you live but I would highly recommend you

> seek out a professional holistic doctor to guide you out of this.

> Convention MDs remain hopelessly clueless, at least 99.9% of

> them. You will eventually be able to track the source of the

> hyper-mineralization. I would also tend to steer you towards a

> practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine. If you find one of

the

> good ones, who really knows TCM, they wil go directly to the root

> of your illness.

>

> It's my belief that no human can survive very long unless they can

> heal their body to the point where they can take in a full and

> balanced complement of fats, carbohydrates, proteins and

> minerals. Anything less is dangerous palliation. You sound

> stuck where you are.

>

> Additionally, how are you being a holistic healer if you are

> denying your own health and salvation because you don't have

> time to heal yourself all due to the task of SAVING OTHERS?

> Can you say " MARTYR SYNDROME " ?

>

> Will, in Minnesota

>

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, I suggest you go to the archives and read other posts by Will. I think

you will find that his viewpoint, either wrong or right, does not stem from his

" lust for fats " . As to the viewpoint I stand firmly on his side of the issue.

As you have pointed out quality is the issue in fats. In my own practice, I see

a constant stream of individuals with all sorts of disorders stemming from low

fat diets. The problem is they are not getting the quality fats in. The main

reason that low fat diets show lower disease rate is because the bad fats are no

longer ingested, however again, our need for quality fats is just as great. In

regards to bile movement: You can't flush the toilet if the water is turned

off. Fats (good) are the medium for bile. Always, in all ways, -Dave

----- Original Message -----

From: Belskis<mailto:brian0017@...>

gallstones <mailto:gallstones >

Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:46 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Help! New to the group....

Cultures that have low fat diets are proven healthier and have

much lower cancer and heart disease . The same cultures when

americanized and eat american foods have higher cancer and heart

disease rates. The statistics dont lie.

Your preception is based on your own emotiions and your own lust

for fat foods;

There are healthy fats and oils I do agree, but I am not

hearing details here.

Will Winter wrote:

> Dear Mike , I'm afraid I have different advice for Romould than

> yours and I'll tell you

> why. I appreciate and share your desire to keep my GB, plus I am

> willing to do any

> necessary lifestyle or diet changes to keep the surgeons at bay. I too

> have had gallstone-

> induced pancreatitis and subsequent hospitalization and recovery. I

> had many lifestyle

> issues to correct.

>

> However, I believe that for most people your low fat diet approach is

> unhealthy and not a

> holistic means of achieving the goal. Additionally, I believe it could

> lead to far deeper

> problems. I wonder, for example, how you will get your fat-soluble

> vitamins (A,D,E,K,G)

> and your essential fatty acids?

>

> Your approach reminds me of the joke Click and Clack (the MPR car

> advice guys) play on

> people who call in and say something like " I have a car that develops

> a vibrating noise at

> 55 mph " . They say (in unison!) " DON'T DRIVE 55! " Funny, but it

> ain't no cure.

>

> It's abundantly clear that people in the POST-ATTACK period must be

> extremely careful

> with fat and spice intake but eventually I believe almost everyone can

> and should ramp

> back up to a clean and healthy diet filled with healthy fats. I also

> believe that, in general,

> we are coming to the end of the Dean Ornish-inspired Fat-o-phobia

> period. A diet filled

> with healthy fats is perhaps the only natural way to establish and

> maintain a good flow of

> bile, a flow free of stones and sludge. We are certainly all

> different, but it's working for me.

>

> Will in Minnesota

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Learn more from our experience, over 7.000 liver flush stories:

>

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=4<http://curezone.com/forums/fd50asp?f=4>

>

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=80<http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=8\

0>

>

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=100<http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=\

100>

>

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=112<http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=\

112>

>

> Liver Cleanse Recipe:

http://CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/<http://curezone.com/cleanse/liver/>

>

> Liver Flush FAQ:

http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=73<http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=73>

>

> Images:

>

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/<http://curezone.com/image_galle\

ry/cleanse_flush/>

>

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/<http://curezone.com/image\

_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/>

>

> To unsubscribe, send blank e-mail to:

> gallstones-unsubscribe and then reply to confirmation

> message!

>

> To Post message: gallstones

> Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe

>

> Web Sites for more information:

> http://CureZone.org<http://curezone.org/>

> http://www.liverdoctor.com/<http://www.liverdoctor.com/>

> http://www.sensiblehealth.com/<http://www.sensiblehealth.com/>

>

http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm<http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.ht\

m>

>

http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html<http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cle\

anse.html>

> http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/<http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/>

>

> Group page:

gallstones<gallstone\

s>

>

> To change your subscription to digest send blank e-mail to:

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> You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

> Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to

> hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

> Have a nice day !

>

>

>

>

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In a message dated 10/26/2005 4:22:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

tina83862@... writes:

Took me at least 5 studying thyroid and it's related conditions. ( and I

totally respect someone knowing more than me on a subject I have not studied)

The majority of low thyroid people will also have gallbladder problems or

have them taken out before they even know they have the thyroid disease. (it's

because of the digestion issue).

The underlying disease state is always reflected in other tissues/organs.

Tina:

Since you have clearly spent more than 5 years studying this perhaps you can

give us a synopsis of your findings so those of us that are also hypothyroid

can benefit from your knowledge. Also it would be helpful to have this info

in the gallstones archives.

All ears and awaiting your reply,

(atlanta)

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