Guest guest Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 > If you are going to use 's treatment,, get " Doctor's Manual for > 's Temperature Syndrome " . Make sure you understand what you're doing > and that the doctor does too. You can find it at > http://wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/Products/Manual.htm Thanks I will read it. > > Immediately I wonder if anyone does when I see the term " 3 weeks. " What > does that have to do with anything? Is that the stopping date if it doesn't > work? Yes I will stop after 3 weeks. I was of the understanding that the thyroid would shut itself down during T3 therapy. I just want to clear out the excess T4 and see what happens not create dependancy. > Also, I would recommend telling the compounding pharmacist to not put dyes > or fillers in your prescription. Especially if you have allergies they're > not too good for you and not necessary. We were going to use Cytomel. Is there a problem with that? > Why didn't you just cut back a 1/2 grain when those symptoms started? I did. I tried one grain to 2 1/2 grains adjusting along the way. I didn't feel the increases much at all...then. I sure do now. > > One sign of adrenal insufficiency is sensitivity to even small increases. > (How is your cortisol level, have you had it tested?) High Cortisol probably due to exercise. With Levoxyl I felt it if I raised it even 12.5 mcg. > You are taking generic dessicated thyroid. Armour always has a little A on > each pill. The potency between Armour and a generic brand isn't going to be > equivalent. Yeah, it is way off. > > >The soundness and depth of sleep I get while on Armour is very odd for me. > >I am not familiar with > >being that groggy when I wake up...I don't think I have EVER been that > >groggy. I shake it off > >eventually; maybe that is how everyone is supposed to sleep...I just am not > >use to it... I do > >dream vividly though. > > It's not a surprise you would sleep better, as for some Armour will cure > sleep apnea. Difficulty getting started in the morning is allegedly common > with low adrenals. On Armour, I get started pretty quickly still but in the first few minutes of awakeness, I am stupid... I am so out of it. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 >From: " Lise " <moniquelise@...> >Reply-iodine >How much dessicated thyroid tissue is in Armour per " grain " ? I'm >trying to see how much I'm taking of thyroid tissue in my OTC >supplement (T-100 from AOR) versus how much folks are taking on Armour... I think Armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. Those are the active components of thyroid hormone. You can't compare it to thyroid tissue, particularly if the T4 and T3 is removed, which is likely required by law. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 > I think Armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. Those are the active > components of thyroid hormone. You can't compare it to thyroid tissue, > particularly if the T4 and T3 is removed, which is likely required by law. Hmmm... Well, what I'm taking is helping, but perhaps it's just the support to my thyroid without the T4 or T3... I've really noticed a difference since I started taking this product as well as the iodine drops. best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Maybe your supplement has a mild amount of T3 but not the T4? My thyroid glandulars specify " thyroxine free " . Thyroxine is T4. I found the ingredient list for yours. It is thyroxine-free: http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/catalog/t-100-thyroid-glandular- support.htm > > I think Armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. Those are the active > > components of thyroid hormone. You can't compare it to thyroid tissue, > > particularly if the T4 and T3 is removed, which is likely required > by law. > > > Hmmm... Well, what I'm taking is helping, but perhaps it's just the > support to my thyroid without the T4 or T3... > > I've really noticed a difference since I started taking this product > as well as the iodine drops. > > best regards, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 What's the name of your supplement ? I tried clicking on the link below but got Page Not Found on their website. I can do a search on their site for it though. I'm low in T3 but not T4. Also looking for a glandular that doesn't have the adrenaline part in it, don't like that feeling. Thanks --- jtb14789 <jtb14789@...> wrote: > Maybe your supplement has a mild amount of T3 but > not the T4? My > thyroid glandulars specify " thyroxine free " . > Thyroxine is T4. > > I found the ingredient list for yours. It is > thyroxine-free: > http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/catalog/t-100-thyroid-glandular- > support.htm > > > > > > > I think Armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. > Those are the > active > > > components of thyroid hormone. You can't > compare it to thyroid > tissue, > > > particularly if the T4 and T3 is removed, which > is likely > required > > by law. > > > > > > Hmmm... Well, what I'm taking is helping, but > perhaps it's just the > > support to my thyroid without the T4 or T3... > > > > I've really noticed a difference since I started > taking this > product > > as well as the iodine drops. > > > > best regards, > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near historic lows: $150,000 loan as low as $579/mo. Intro-*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 > > Maybe your supplement has a mild amount of T3 but not the T4? My > thyroid glandulars specify " thyroxine free " . Thyroxine is T4. On the label, it doesn't say " thyroxine free " . Interesting... It does seem to be doing something for me, so it's either the " peptides and nutrient cofactors " or there is a bit of T3 in it... I wonder how they provide the " whole " tissue and yet take the T4 out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 > > What's the name of your supplement ? I tried > clicking on the link below but got Page Not Found on > their website. I can do a search on their site for it > though. > > I'm low in T3 but not T4. > > Also looking for a glandular that doesn't have the > adrenaline part in it, don't like that feeling. > > Thanks > -- it wasn't 's supplement; it was mine! The problem is that links will break if they are too long... You have to copy both parts of the link into a web browser page and then you'll get to the right place. By the way, the supplement is called T-100 and it's from AOR. best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 >From: " Lise " <moniquelise@...> > -- it wasn't 's supplement; it was mine! The problem is >that links will break if they are too long... You have to copy both >parts of the link into a web browser page and then you'll get to the >right place. Which is why we were glad when someone in this group gave us the web address - http://tinyurl.com/ which converts long urls to short ones. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us & source=hmtag\ line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Couldn't this mean that your T4 is not converting to T3 as it should? Low cortisol levels block the conversion. Iodine seems to support adrenals... but probably not enough if cortisol is low. Amy JD wrote: What's the name of your supplement ? I tried clicking on the link below but got Page Not Found on their website. I can do a search on their site for it though. I'm low in T3 but not T4. Also looking for a glandular that doesn't have the adrenaline part in it, don't like that feeling. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 This is my supplement, Thyro-Complex by Progressive Labs http://www.webvitamins.com/product.aspx?ID=10923 $10.70 for 90 caplets Manufacturer's Info http://www.progressivelabs.com/product.php?productid=107 & cat=0 & page=1 The link in the other post was for the ingredients of the other poster's supplement. If you want to check it out, here's a more clickable one. split the other link (you'd have to paste the 3rd line onto the tail end of the clickable part - stupid - don't know why it does that) Other poster's supplement: http://tinyurl.com/yckt4e I take 5 caplets/day of the Thyro-Complex. My NP originally prescribed 2 but that sure as heck didn't do much. I slowly went up on my own to see how I feel. I now take 3 caplets in the a.m., 2 in the afternoon. I also take 8 Isocort/day. I worked my way up on these from 2/day each over a two-three week period to where I am now. I definitely have more energy and a brighter outlook. I'm able to exercise, no carb cravings, sleep better. I have energy to cook meals for the family. But some of the other hypo symptoms are still there - bloated face, losing hair, brain fog (but not as bad), some edema, etc. The energy is sure as heck better than what it was, but not where it should be. I'm switching to Armour next, starting at a 1/2 grain & going up a 1/2 grain every two weeks, depending on how I feel. - have you looked into making sure you're also supporting the functions that contribute to converting T4 to T3? Do you take selenium, iodine, zinc & iron? Is your ferritin (storage iron) in the 70-90 range? Sufficient A, B-complex, C & E are supportive of the thyroid gland too. Hypos are often poor converters of betacarotene to Vitamin A, so some direct A thru your diet, fish oil supplements and/or a tsp of cod liver oil can be helpful. How are your progesterone & DHEA levels? These need to be optimized too for improved thyroid function. Hope that helps, > > > > I think Armour has 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. > > Those are the active components of thyroid hormone. You can't > > compare it to thyroid tissue, particularly if the T4 and T3 is removed, which is likely required by law. > > > > > > Hmmm... Well, what I'm taking is helping, but perhaps it's just the support to my thyroid without the T4 or T3... I've really noticed a difference since I started taking this > > product as well as the iodine drops. > > > > > > best regards, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 A friend who takes Armour has written this to me and I wondered if anyone could answer or give a suggestion:- Has there been any discussion on armour on the list lately. The batch that I received in the last couple of weeks is different. There is no smell to it and it tastes different - a bit soapy. Lilian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hi Lilian, I know some sizes were withdrawn for potency reasons- so maybe there has been a reformulation I’m assuming this was from a reputable source and is the real thing? It even says on the packaging that it has a distinctive smell. Subject: Armour question A friend who takes Armour has written this to me and I wondered if anyone could answer or give a suggestion:- Has there been any discussion on armour on the list lately. The batch that I received in the last couple of weeks is different. There is no smell to it and it tastes different - a bit soapy. Lilian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Bought from the same place as we buy ours , same packet same everything. Lilian I know some sizes were withdrawn for potency reasons- so maybe there has been a reformulation I’m assuming this was from a reputable source and is the real thing? It even says on the packaging that it has a distinctive smell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 No changes whatsoever as far as I'm concerned. Ask her exactly where she purchased this as I know one firm has been sending out iffy tablets. luv - Sheila Armour question A friend who takes Armour has written this to me and I wondered if anyone could answer or give a suggestion:- Has there been any discussion on armour on the list lately. The batch that I received in the last couple of weeks is different. There is no smell to it and it tastes different - a bit soapy. Lilian No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 18/02/2008 05:50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Gets them from same place as we do. Lilian No changes whatsoever as far as I'm concerned. Ask her exactly where she purchased this as I know one firm has been sending out iffy tablets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Are you absolutely sure that she got this last batch from Forest Pharmaceuticals? She should send them back immediately if in any doubt whatsoever. She oculd send an email to them telling them about the appearance and lack of smell and ask for their comments. Luv - Sheila Re: Armour question Gets them from same place as we do. Lilian No changes whatsoever as far as I'm concerned. Ask her exactly where she purchased this as I know one firm has been sending out iffy tablets. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1285 - Release Date: 18/02/2008 05:50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 She got them from International Pharmacy. Lilian Are you absolutely sure that she got this last batch from Forest Pharmaceuticals? She should send them back immediately if in any doubt whatsoever. She oculd send an email to them telling them about the appearance and lack of smell and ask for their comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 > > > > Lilian > I know some sizes were withdrawn for potency reasons- so maybe there has been a reformulation > I'm assuming this was from a reputable source and is the real thing? It even says on the packaging that it has a distinctive smell. > > > I have just bought some armour too and My doesnt seem to have a very strong smell either. Its does say on the box about it smell, but I have never smelt it before. This is my first order and I have started it today. I wonder what's going on. As long as it still works. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi Not really, but you should understand the half life of the different hormones that are in Armour and respect those. If you increase too quickly then yes, you do run the risk of causing toxicity because your body is only able to cope with so much T3 at a time. Your body will crave the hormone it needs and no more. This is the beauty of Armour - it quickly tells you whether it is taking enough thyroid hormone replacement and it quickly tells you when you are taking too much. What you might need to worry about is when you are also taking synthetic T3 or T4 added to your Armour and that may require some experimentation if you are a good natural converter. The benefits that you get from Armour is that it contains other natural thyroid hormones that the synthetics do not have and also, Armour contains calcitonin that helps your bones get stronger. You probably couldn't increase your Armour (or any thyroid hormone replacement for that matter) because you had one of the associated conditions that goes along with being hypothyroid that stops the thyroid hormone from being absorbed, and so you would feel the toxic effect every time you tried to increase your dose. Any of these conditions must be treated before you start thyroid hormone replacement. Now you have started back on Armour, in case you are concerned you might have the same problem, try increasing by just a quarter of a grain this time instead of the half which we usually recommend. Some people however, appear to do fine on levothyroxine alone - so they don't have a problem with conversion, but they still don't get the natural thyroid hormones that Armour contain. It's interesting that when the synthetics were manufactured, some doctors have written that they found great difficulty in swapping those patients on thyroid extract to the synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy, so this tells a story. Luv - Sheila If we convert t4 to t3 ok, is there a risk that Armour will build up in our systems in the way you describe. I guess it's a selfish question really, as I couldn't increase over 1 grain of Armour previously without feeling over medicated. Felt better on it up until that point though. Could it be that simple thyroxine medication, if our conversion is fine, is more appropriate. I'm just starting again with Armour, I turned to week 6 of Dr P's plan for me and that was suggested, I've started with half grain only. So, fingers crossed. I've stuck religiously to his plan up until now. I do know to take things very slowly with Armour don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 ****Hi - Yes - sorry, but you ARE rushing it and you will cause problems for yourself if you carry on treating with Armour in such a way. Four days is not long enough to start to increase your dose by double.... Hello Sheila, Many thanks for your advice - I was afraid you'd say that - but I bow to your experience and will reduce my dosage back to 1/2 grain/day and see how it goes. ***Obviously, you were showing the adverse symptoms of taking too much T3 on the third day. However - sorry to appear thick, but I still do not quite understand this.... In view of my feeling previously perfectly fine on high levels of FT4 and FT3, I can't understand the mechanism of how it is possible to overdose T3 when the actual levels of T3 must surely be lower in only 1/2 grain Armour and compared to a steady input of 125 mcg Levothyroxine. Still, whilst I do not understand the process, I do accept that my feeling 'empty', light headed and slightly sweaty may have been the result of an overdose of T3 and my body having to get used to now receiving T1 and T2 and calcitonin as well - but if an overdose of T3 had been the culprit, why did I feel much better shortly after I had taken the second afternoon 1/2 grain? I don't get it. Should I not have felt worse after putting even more T3 into my system? Love from a slightly confused xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi , Sounds like you are doing just fine! Just follow the regime, but remember that you’re not taking as much meds as you were,even though you are feeling the benefit of the T3 etc. so as the artificial levo leaves the body you may feel a bit of a slump, before the Armour dose catches up- better to be a bit tired for a few days that go hyper by being too keen. Some of us don’t overreact to Armour so it is possible to do the conversion quicker, but best to be cautious and follow the instructions. Subject: Armour question Quick question to all you hardened Armour taker . Now my question... I followed Sheila's advice of stopping the levothyroxine at bedtime one evening and started taking 1/2 grain not the following morning (which would have been only 8 hours after the last T4 dosage), but waited until the morning after.... I had a disturbed and sweaty second night, but felt immediately fine an hour after the first half grain went into the system in the morning. The plan was to take 1/2 grain for 7 days, then double the dosage etc. Can I carry on taking 2 x 1/2 grain per day, or will that lead to problems later on ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi When you take the natural hormones that are in Armour you are also taking T2 and T1 and T2 is an active hormone. There is not a lot of research on the properties of T2 in Armour but read the information in the TPA-UK response to the BTA Statement on Armour where there are references to its activity - you mustn't discount this, and both Dr Peatfield and myself believe that T2 is the magic ingredient in Armour and why those on the synthetic's do not do quite as well. You still appear to want an exact comparison between the natural and synthetic hormones, but they work differently. In many cases, treatment with Armour produces better clinical results than the synthetics. Armour has a higher amount of T3 compared to T4 than the relative amounts of T3 to T4 secreted by the human thyroid gland. However it is well documented that Armour is often more effective and is better tolerated than synthetic preparations of T4, T3 and T4/T3 combination. This is because the T3 in natural thyroid extract is absorbed more slowly than synthetic (purified, unbound) T3. The normal thyroid gland contains approximately 200 mcg of T4 per gram of gland, and 15 mcgs of T3 per gram. The ratio of these two hormones in the circulation does not represent the ratio of the thyroid gland, since about 80% of peripheral T3 comes from monodeiodination of T4. I cannot understand why you started taking Armour though if you were feeling previously perfectly fine on the high levels of levothyroxine and liothyronine. Are you getting Armour on the NHS or having to pay privately for it? Again, because of the rate you increased your Armour I am sure this played a part into the reason you got symptoms of overdose. You also have to remember that you didn't wait any time at all to get any of the T4 out of your system before you started taking Armour thyroid and thyroxine has a long half life - so you have still loads in your system. Sheila ***Obviously, you were showing the adverse symptoms of taking too much T3 on the third day. However - sorry to appear thick, but I still do not quite understand this.... In view of my feeling previously perfectly fine on high levels of FT4 and FT3, I can't understand the mechanism of how it is possible to overdose T3 when the actual levels of T3 must surely be lower in only 1/2 grain Armour and compared to a steady input of 125 mcg Levothyroxine. Still, whilst I do not understand the process, I do accept that my feeling 'empty', light headed and slightly sweaty may have been the result of an overdose of T3 and my body having to get used to now receiving T1 and T2 and calcitonin as well - but if an overdose of T3 had been the culprit, why did I feel much better shortly after I had taken the second afternoon 1/2 grain? I don't get it. Should I not have felt worse after putting even more T3 into my system? Love from a slightly confused xx __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hello Sheila, ***You still appear to want an exact comparison between the natural and synthetic hormones, but they work differently.... I think you've hit the nail on the head there... I need to put my trust in Armour and accept that the two products work differently, be patient (patient? moi??? ) and see how I feel in a weeks time. Point taken .... *** I cannot understand why you started taking Armour though if you were feeling previously perfectly fine on the high levels of levothyroxine and liothyronine. I was on Levothyroxine only, Sheila, - no T3 supplementation. My fairly recent blood test showed that on 150 mcg Levothyroxine my FT3 and FT4 figures were both bang on the upper ref. norm figure. So I knew that my body has no problem converting. - I initially felt ok on 150 mcg, but 10 weeks into that dosage had to lower to 125 mcg because I experienced hyperthyroid symptoms. When I cut back the hyper symptoms vanished but some of my old symptoms returned... in particular hot flushes, cold night sweats and a further drop in basal temps.... I felt sooo cold most of the time. After staying on 125 mcg for a further 6 weeks or so - like it or lump it - I knew that this was 'my level' . I had tried alternating with 150 mcg/125 mcg for a bit - it did not work, just threw my system out of synch and gave me palps. ***Are you getting Armour on the NHS or having to pay privately for it? I bought it privately for now. If it works for me the way I hope it will, I'll confess to my GP and see if I can change his mind. I had briefely touched on the subject of Armour when I first got diagnosed, but he would not hear of it then ..... but never say never Many thanks for your comments, Sheila, I'll keep you all posted on how I get on - needless to say, I'm back on 1/2 grain and will patiently wait before upping again. - ***remember that you're not taking as much meds as you were,even though you are feeling the benefit of the T3 etc. so as the artificial levo leaves the body you may feel a bit of a slump, before the Armour dose catches up- better to be a bit tired for a few days that go hyper by being too keen.... That is a very good point ... many thanks for the reminder. I don't mind going through a 'low', as long as I know that this is supposed to happen. Love, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Sheila, You wrote: > ... There is not a lot of > research on the properties of T2 in Armour ... With all due respect, I guess you don't remember the published papers I posted the last time you made this claim. T2 has been measured to be less active than T4. Both are much less active than T3, but T2 ranks third. Since both T3 and RT3 are de-iodized into T2, essentially every molecule of T4 is eventually transformed into T2, then T1, then eliminated. Thus, metabolic processing of T4 (and T3) is a much richer source of T2 than is contained in Armour. I suppose the undetectable property of T2 in Armour really must be some sort of magic. In addition to the ratio of T3 to T4 in Armour being higher than produced in human thyroids, we absorb much less of the T4, especially if there is any food or beverage involved. Thus, for many people that use Armour, it is mostly a very rich source of T3, which a good number of people seem to need. That seems like a much more important difference from synthetic T4 than a trace of T2. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Yes Chuck, I do remember the papers you posted. I appreciate your views on T2, but when I was responding to the BTA Statement on Armour I did a lot of research of necessity and found other studies to show the other side of the picture. There are conflicting studies regarding the properties of T2 - just as there are conflicting studies regarding the use of T4/T3 combination therapy v T4 alone. Forest have done no studies into the specific amount of T2, T1, calcitonin or any other ‘T’ hormones that are naturally occurring in Armour. However, some studies show there may be advantages to using Armour that are not related to its T4 orT3 content. Broda observed some patients treated with syntheticT4/T3 combination continued to experience residual symptoms, particularly dry skin and oedema. Both symptoms resolved in 1-2 months when the treatment was changed to Armour. This observation suggests a third active substance is secreted by the thyroid gland which is active. The most likely candidate is T2. Although little was known about the function of this compound in humans, the widely held assumption that it is metabolically inert may be incorrect. In a study of guinea pigs, oral administration of T2 prevented alterations in thyroid and pituitary function induced by oophorectomy. Administration of T2 also accelerated the metamorphosis of tadpoles and enhanced the growth of the protozoan Tetrahymena. It is well known that T2 has been shown to increase hepatic oxygen consumption by about 30%. The authors of that particular study discovered that out of T4, T3 and T2, ONLY T2 was active in stimulating rapid hepatic oxygen consumption. They concluded that it acts rapidly and directly through activation of the mitochondria. In another study, T3 and T2 were compared in terms of Resting Metabolism and on the oxidative capacity of tissues that are metabolically active (liver, muscle tissue, brown adipose tissue or BAT, and heart). What they found was that T2 had a dose-dependent effect, which increased RM and oxidative capacity. They found the greatest response to T2 was in the liver and in BAT. The effects again occurred rapidly and independently of protein synthesis. They stated that their results suggested isomers like T2 could be direct mediators of thyroid hormone regulation on energy metabolism, and a further study found increased hepatic oxidative capacity and thought this was due to a direct action upon the mitochondria by T2. There are other studies with similar findings. Another study showed the same thing: increased oxidative capacity and energy expenditure, causing the authors to suggest that T2 and T3 displayed similar effects. T2 was also shown to have a similar effect to that of T3 on lipid metabolism with T2 actually doing a little better in some tissue. Although there is little research in humans, some does exist. In one study, using human mononuclear blood cells, it was found that T2 increased the rate of respiration significantly. So, the efficacy appears to have been established. Can it significantly inhibit TSH like T3 and T4? The studies are conflicting, but one thing seems to be prevalent amongst them all — TSH inhibition isn’t nearly as severe with T2 as it is with T3. A further study showed that T2 is 13% less inhibitory on TSH levels, as compared to T3. In yet another study, T3 and T2 suppressed TSH to similar levels; however, it took 15 mcg/100g body weight per day of T3 to accomplish this, while it took 200 mcg/100g body weight per day of T2 to accomplish the same thing. This means it took about 13 times more T2 to exert the same effect on TSH as T3. When researchers in another study administered 100 ug/kg of T3 and 800-1600 ug/kg of T2 the following occurred: T3 rapidly decreased serum TSH levels to within minimal levels after 24 hours. Seventy-two hours after application, TSH levels were still significantly lower than control levels. As for T2, TSH levels were transiently reduced and reached their lowest point at 24 hours and increased afterwards. Basal levels were reached 72 hours after an application. What they found after analysing the data was that there seemed to be a trend for a dose-dependent suppression of TSH by T2, which did not reach statistical significance. Furthermore, it appears as though it took 100 times more T2 than T3 to finally exert the same amount of TSH inhibition. Even using 400 times more T2 than T3, it appears that T3 only allows TSH to be inhibited to just a slight degree less than T2. References to all of these studies can be found in my response to the BTA. I understand that many body builders use T2 because of its rapid action, and not sure whether you were around at that time, but about 5 years ago, there was a member of the Hypothyroid Group called Fred ( will remember) who tried the experiment using T2 added to his other synthetic thyroid hormone replacement - and he most definitely found it to be active. We also have a member of this forum who used it with excellent results. Until more studies are done into the properties of T2 where the researchers finally come to an agreement - I think you and me should agree to disagree. I will, however, continue meanwhile to believe that T2 could be the magic ingredient in Armour, that isn't available in synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy. Sheila, With all due respect, I guess you don't remember the published papers I posted the last time you made this claim. T2 has been measured to be less active than T4. Both are much less active than T3, but T2 ranks third. Since both T3 and RT3 are de-iodised into T2, essentially every molecule of T4 is eventually transformed into T2, then T1, then eliminated. Thus, metabolic processing of T4 (and T3) is a much richer source of T2 than is contained in Armour. I suppose the undetectable property of T2 in Armour really must be some sort of magic. In addition to the ratio of T3 to T4 in Armour being higher than produced in human thyroids, we absorb much less of the T4, especially if there is any food or beverage involved. Thus, for many people that use Armour, it is mostly a very rich source of T3, which a good number of people seem to need. That seems like a much more important difference from synthetic T4 than a trace of T2. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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